BMW Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Yes, homeschooling my son is an option, but I'd like to not make any sudden changes unless I have to. He is 3rd grade and has aspergers and sensory integration disorder. The special ed at school has done fabulous with him. His teacher is terrific. But there is this girl who he used to be good buddies with. But, as my son develops and progresses, she gets jealous (that's what the special ed teacher says, they are both in this together). She also has a rough and tough background. She has been picking on my son all year... knocked his glasses off a while back... a couple times. Then started calling him "dweeb" "dork" and "idiot". Early this week she pushed him into something, then grabbed him by the shirt and threw him down on the ground. He bumped his head pretty hard and had a lump for a couple of days. Last night my son was thinking about it at bed time. This is the point for me where it is affecting him too much. He doesn't want to deal with her and he is getting nervous. I said that I'd go to the school today and talk it over with the principal/v.p. and maybe even the psych. What do I ask for? My son says that she is watching for when the teachers are not paying attention, and then doing things... making threats ("I can beat you up"). What would you say? Do I ask for a different classroom teacher? Do I insist that the girls parents be called and more be done so she gets the message to leave my son alone? My plan is that if this continues, I'll bring him home. The only reason he is at ps is because the court ordered ps when I was in the process of divorce and having to work full time. Now my life is settled and I don't have to work and can homeschool... I would have to use a state program, like k-12 and appeal with the judge. Thanks... Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I don't have much advice since I've not dealt with bullying like that with my dc. Just wondering if you could ask the principal/v.p. if your ds is allowed to defend himself? I know she's a girl and all and he doesn't have to hurt her that much. Can't he just give her a warning not to do it again or he'll hit her and then follow through? I wouldn't think she would keep doing it if she knew your ds was going to hit her back. We tell our boys that if someone hits you that you give them a warning that if they don't stop, you will make them stop! And if there are not adults around to help you. I just thought I'd throw the "defend yourself" idea out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I don't have much advice since I've not dealt with bullying like that with my dc. Just wondering if you could ask the principal/v.p. if your ds is allowed to defend himself? I know she's a girl and all and he doesn't have to hurt her that much. Can't he just give her a warning not to do it again or he'll hit her and then follow through? I wouldn't think she would keep doing it if she knew your ds was going to hit her back. We tell our boys that if someone hits you that you give them a warning that if they don't stop, you will make them stop! And if there are not adults around to help you. I just thought I'd throw the "defend yourself" idea out there. Boys can't hit girls. Ever. Period. If you want to try, I'd tell the school that if they didn't protect your son immediately that you are going to pull him..........immediately. Next incident and he's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 No no no - don't let him hit back - odds are, while there will be NO witness to the girl's bullying, there will be an adult who sees him defend himself, and when the girl insists it was unprovoked - you will have an even bigger mess to deal with. Insist on a meeting with the teacher/principal etc. and demand they provide your son a SAFE educational environment. Perhaps an AIDE is in order, for the girl if not your son, to help teach HER coping and social skills! Let them know the next time she touches your son or verbally abuses him you will be contacting the police if need be. Meanwhile keep every incident noted in writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I would talk to the principle and get his plan of action in writing. Hugs to your little guy. We've dealt with bullies and my conclusion is that you have to insist they do everything in their power to help him, not just the other kid. Accountability goes a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 :grouphug: to your little guy! I think your idea of talking to the school administrators as a start is a good one. Do you have any advocacy groups in your area that work with parents of kids with special needs? Some friends of ours are involved with one, and they provide support and suggest ways to deal with the school bureaucracy. I hope it all works out for your ds. He shouldn't have to suffer at the hands of a bully! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree w/ Michelle. Encourage him to defend himself from a bully, even is she's a girl. I wouldn't glamorize hitting girls, however. When my daughter began to bully her brothers (scratching them w/ her fingernails), I told her that one of these days she was not going to like what was coming back at her. Well, it finally happened, and my 9yob punched her right in the face. Though I disciplined him for hitting her, I told her she got what was coming. Though he is in ps, which makes it more difficult, I would still encourage him to defend himself. If he does end up hitting her or whatever, I'd discipline him (very minimally), yet I would tell him that it is never okay to accept treatment from a bully. It would be helpful to him to learn how to handle these circumstances, because it will happen again and again in life. Give him a big hug. Blessings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 In my district if a child's (boy or girl) glasses were knocked or the child were pushed by a boy or girl child that is grounds for suspension from school. I would review your district's disciplinary policies. I would keep a note book of incidents and encourage ds to keep a notebook of incidents himself. I would call an IEP meeting so that accomodations for this can be addressed. Make a list of the accomodations you and ds want. If before the IEP meeting the girl makes a violent gesture again (knocking glasses off is violent--I consider my glasses part of me since I wear them all the time), I would demand the school follow through with disciplinary action. If the bully is in sp ed and has not been violent previously then there is no reason a one day suspension cannot be enforced. If the child has a history of violence and is in sp ed, she still cannot be allowed to interfere with another child's safety and education. Perhaps she needs a more restrictive placement. My district has anti bullying policy that goes beyond the disciplinary procedures, but like anything enforcement depends on individual school administration. If things escalate without appropriate response I'd contact my local school board rep giving them details of my record of offences and school's response. Maybe I'm getting extreme in my response. You can be the judge as to what steps are appropriate here. But I HATE bullies. I was bullied and I won't tolerate bullying involving my dc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 BTW, I'd never encourage my ds to hit back on school property, at a school bus stop or at a school sponsored event. The same consequences that should be applied to the bullied may simply be applied to your ds. In the age of "zero tolerance" the victim can have permanent consequences on his school record and no appeal and the aggressor will go free. This can happen to a third grader very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I guess it matters which district (and which school) you're in! Even though my ds was at one of the top schools in the state, when he was being bullied the worst consequence was the teacher "pulling one of his feathers" (what?!); when *5* feathers were gone then (watch out!) he would have to miss Recess. (oh, the horror!) Frankly, I'm sure by now (it's been a few years) that parents have complained that missing Recess violates their child's civil rights, and now the worst punishment for even the most vile offense involves "losing a feather" ... yeah, if I could go back, I'd definitely teach my kid to hit the bully. (No, I wouldn't. I'm glad I didn't. But, I do like to watch movies where the bad guy really *gets* it in the end.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 And tell him that when she touches him in anyway, he's to blow hard on it until an adult comes. I'd talk to the teachers and tell them that this is my plan, unless they can come up with another way. I would tell them that I have told my son he is not allowed to touch her, but I would outline for them exactly the kinds of problems that he is having and tell them that this is the best way I can think to protect him, and to feel free to let me know if they have a better idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree with the don't hit girls no matter what, but this girl needs some kind of action. I'd insist on a meeting with the teacher and principal. I'd try to include the girl and her parents too. I'm sure they aren't aware of what is going on. If after the meeting there is even a hint of more bullying I'd pull him out and deal with the courts. You will need to document everything though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 And tell him that when she touches him in anyway, he's to blow hard on it until an adult comes. I'd talk to the teachers and tell them that this is my plan, unless they can come up with another way. I would tell them that I have told my son he is not allowed to touch her, but I would outline for them exactly the kinds of problems that he is having and tell them that this is the best way I can think to protect him, and to feel free to let me know if they have a better idea. Good idea. I also liked other ideas for aggressively following up with the teacher and the administration--if the girl needs an aide or some sort of restriction, they need to follow up on that. At the very least, the threat of having to spend the money to get an aide might put a little pressure to deal with this more aggressively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 I just got back from meeting with the principal. This girl bullied someone else in the lunch line as well. So, they pulled her from the lunch line completely and she has to wait in the office until the children get finished, then she can get her lunch. She is also not allowed to play out in the yard. The principal has been visiting the classroom at various times of the day and is keeping a close eye on things. She will follow up with my son, letting him know that he shouldn't worry about lunch time, that this girl is not allowed to be there. The principal invited me to stay in contact and keep the conversation going... So, for now, I hope the dust settles and he doesn't have to continue dealing with her... But, I think it will rear it's head again... just my gut feeling. Thanks a lot, your comments helped me to walk in confidently and ask the right questions. Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 is there anyway [or do you already] volunteer time at the school to help out? maybe not directly in your son's class [tho i would consider that ideal], but at least you'd be closer to the situation and get a better idea for what happens at the school. The staff would have a greater appreciation for you --and protectiveness for your son-- and if/when you got to the point that you were ready to pull him out, you'd have experience in the educational system and maybe even some references from the school itself :D It wouldn't have to be an all day thing, but even an hour here or there could prove beneficial. maybe during lunch ;) good luck~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Boys can't hit girls. Ever. Period. mine can. esp if the girls are being violent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree w/ you Peek. I've seen some girls get quite vicious w/ boys, and sometimes it makes me wonder if they are doing this thinking that they can get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 My boys can't hit young ladies, ever. If a female person chooses to get violent and not be a young lady, then that is her issue. It is my hope that my son would defend him self against a violent girl enough to stop her. My boys aren't allowed to hit young LADIES or young GENTLEMEN ever, either :) however, violent bullies of either sex are none of the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 We dealt with bullying like that last year. I ended up bringing my son (9) home this year and it was mostly because of the school's lack of response to the bully. They told my son that it was 1/2 his fault because he mouthed back to the child. Ha. Okay. When the kid told him, "You will die tomorrow," that was IT for me. The school acted like an 8 year old just wasn't capable of acting on such a threat and dismissed it all together. Neither of my sons will never attend ps in this county again as long as I live to tell about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Homeschooling should not be a way to opt out of reality. In reality we have to deal with bullies. I just had to deal with an adult one last week. Bullying doesn't work if the chosen victim doesn't allow himself to be the victim. When the little girl says she is going to beat him up, why does he not just laugh her out of the room? Is it true that she could beat him up? Maybe he needs to learn to defend himself. Pulling a kid out of school just so he can avoid being called names is not a good idea IMO. My dd has to deal with rotten kids all the time even though she's homeschooled. I could shelter her from every bad person, place, and experience, but that is just going to make her grow up to be damaged goods. I would go to the school psychologist and ask for some tools to help you TEACH your son how to stand up to bullies. I would ask for her to work with him on this at school also. Maybe her office can be a safe place for him to go when he isn't sure how to deal with a situation. But my main goal would be to empower my kid. Removing him from the situation only teaches that running away from our problems is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 BTW, I'd never encourage my ds to hit back on school property, at a school bus stop or at a school sponsored event. The same consequences that should be applied to the bullied may simply be applied to your ds. In the age of "zero tolerance" the victim can have permanent consequences on his school record and no appeal and the aggressor will go free. This can happen to a third grader very easily. :iagree:He should be taught to defend himself without hitting back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I agree that having a written plan of action to refer to should this situation happen again is important. It makes the school aware that you will be watching and will hold them accountable. It also makes your son aware that you are advocating on his behalf. On the topic of boys hitting girls, I am a woman who was once a girl. I absolutely believe that the idea that "boys can't hit girls" contributes to girls tormenting boys. I have seen several girls pick on and abuse boys and tell them directly, "You can't hit me because I am a girl." I think this damages both boys and girls, but especially girls. I see nothing gentlemanly in a boy not hitting a girl just because she's a girl. I see it as demeaning to both people: the boy because he feels like he's supposed to be "better than" just because he's a boy and the girl because she learns to view herself as in need of protection based solely on what's between her legs. I don't advocate kids of either gender hitting one another. But I understand, having been a child myself, that sometimes, with immature little brains, getting beaned is the language they understand. I have a little boy and a little girl who are roughly the same age. I would never dream of telling my son (who is rarely the aggressor) that he can't hit his sister back just because she's a girl. I tell my kids that they can't hit one another, period, and that "She hit me first" is no excuse because each is responsible for his or her own behavior and just because someone does something they are not supposed to does not give my kids the right to do something they are not supposed to. But tell my kids that the shouldn't hit/expect to be hit simply because of their gender? N-E-V-E-R. I certainly would explain to my kids the potential legal consequences of hitting another child. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I disagree somewhat - having been to the principal's office and dismissed as if I were somehow an inferior being. My child was depressed after 3 years of bullying in those moments when teachers can't be there - or have their attention elsewhere in the classroom. There were also moments - I have found at since - that bullying happened right in front of the whole class. You know, bully called my child a f@gg0t during a game of 7-up - and the teacher with the Masters Degree from Harvard, whom the principal guaranteed me could handle *any* bully replied, "Noooow, stop." That's it. No consequences at all. Meanwhile, telling me of course, that all the bullying is going on behind her back. If my son were an adult, and being bullied like that at work, he could quit, or at least be transferred. But, it was basically like sending him to prison to be tortured every day. I admit I was bullied at school as well, and there are times I just don't understand people. But, one thing I like about being an adult is not being forced to stay in anyone's presence who is being a jerk. There are plenty of toxic people out there in the world that I avoid - I don't want or need the aggravation that comes from associating with them in any way. And, I think homeschooling is the only way I can offer that option to my child. Trust me, in this economy, I wish I could've made public school work. I had to close my business to make homeschool work. But, three years later, I have a confident, happy child again. As Master Card would say, that's priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Son and I have gone through some scenarios and we will keep doing that. He is learning what to say and how to say it, so when she (she IS a head and shoulders taller than him and stronger) says, "I can beat you up" or gets close to him and starts saying something unkind, he is to say, loud, strong and clear, "Get away from me, I won't let you push me around!" This little guy has 5 older brothers and knows how to fight... but he is also kind hearted and will put up with a lot until he is pushed too many times. The principal also stated that since this girl has been pestering him for some time... if he does ever strike back, they will consider the entire situation and be very lenient on him. I told him that he is absolutely allowed to protect himself... that he should use arm blocks to not let her handle him or push him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandellie4 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Just my two cents, but kids with Asperger's are generally known to be easy targets for bullies, and it only gets worse as they get older. When we had our Aspies in ps, we had to work constantly with the school system, as the officials didn't seem to understand that our kids weren't purposely inviting torment. I would recommend watching this situation very, very closely, and keeping an eye out for others in the future. Also, encouraging an Aspie to respond to a bully by hitting back, etc., can backfire. Some of the Aspies I've known have responded with more anxiety, because now they feel that they *have* to respond, and they're afraid. Others will strike back, but since they have a lack of social judgment overall, they can end up in a lot of trouble for making a bad choice. As ours got older, they more and more often made errors in reading social cues - they would think someone was taunting them when the person was actually joking, or they would react negatively when the situation could have been easily defused, etc. I think, and again, it's only my two cents, that these kids' disabilities are often not taken seriously. They have a *social* disability and for school officials and teachers to assume that they will learn the ways of the playground the way other kids do (largely by osmosis) only shows how clueless they are about this disability. Our Aspies have learned some ways to protect themselves, using their words and with some skills they learned in assertiveness training, but each skill had to be taught in a structured situation. If they could have picked up these skills more spontaneously like our other kids did, they would not have been diagnosed with Asperger's. Off my soapbox now.... :grouphug: to you and your wee one. Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarleneW Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 We dealt with this last year. Go as high up as you need to. Do. not. drop. it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Lots of good ideas so far. I agree with keeping a list of all significant incidents. Also, would it be possible to communicate with the parent/s of the bully? The more light shone on what she is doing, the better, in my opinion. I taught ps elementary school for 7 years, and dealing with bullying is complicated -- largely for the reason you mention -- the bully waits until teachers aren't looking. And they can't look all the time. The best advice that I came across for a bullying victim was to stay away from the bully. Now, initially, I know that sounds like a typical and unhelpful suggestion. But the 'staying away' is in combination with the adult intervention. As a teacher, I found that once all the adults were on the 'same page' (aware of the problem and prepared to deal with it -- as the adults at your son's school seem to be), it was helpful for the victim to have something HE could DO. We told the child to feel free to get up and move away from the bully at any time. To be sure to choose a recess activity far away from the bully. To approach an adult as soon as the bully tried to approach. This helped the victim feel that they had some control over a very stressful situation. Hope that helps some. It would be so difficult to send my child into a situation like that each day. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Homeschooling should not be a way to opt out of reality. In reality we have to deal with bullies. I just had to deal with an adult one last week. IRL we have the option of NOT continuing to associate w/ a bully. and in Real Life, if you assault someone you go to jail. Bullying doesn't work if the chosen victim doesn't allow himself to be the victim. When the little girl says she is going to beat him up, why does he not just laugh her out of the room? Is it true that she could beat him up? Maybe he needs to learn to defend himself. considering the amount of emotional manipulation that goes on in bullying situations, those can be overly simplistic idealistic solutions to a complex problem that happens several times a day. And different bullies use different tactics. i do agree that learning to defend oneself is a great idea whether you're currently being bullied or not. Pulling a kid out of school just so he can avoid being called names is not a good idea IMO. My dd has to deal with rotten kids all the time even though she's homeschooled. I could shelter her from every bad person, place, and experience, but that is just going to make her grow up to be damaged goods. yeah... our jail system is full of people who were sheltered. I would go to the school psychologist and ask for some tools to help you TEACH your son how to stand up to bullies. I would ask for her to work with him on this at school also. Maybe her office can be a safe place for him to go when he isn't sure how to deal with a situation. I agree w/ the bolded part, but based on what you just said, isn't the rest sheltering?? But my main goal would be to empower my kid. Removing him from the situation only teaches that running away from our problems is a good idea. i agree with the bold part. I disagree that teaching your kid they do not need to be held captive to a bad situation is "running away from our problems." Staying away from bad situations is responsible thinking, not cowardice. We could save the cops a lot of work if more kids were taught that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.