S/O of eating disorder; I don’t understand this

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Night Elf said:

No no no... I didn't say that. I'd never survive on that! *laugh* When I heavily restricted I ate about 1000-1100 calories. When I wasn't restricting, or what I thought was restricting, I was eating between 1200-1300 calories. That was still low but I didn't think it was. The 500 calories I mentioned is what I increased my calories to. I went from 1200 to 1700 daily calories and that's where I am now. I'm not totally happy with my current weight but I'm still within an acceptable for me range so I'm trying to accept it as my new weight and not try to go back down. I'm still eating around 1700 calories but my OP was about my night eating. That was adding in close to 1000 calories just between 8:00 pm and 9:30 pm. That was what I wanted to stop. 

oh thank goodness!!!! i'm glad I misunderstood! That makes me much less worried 🙂

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

When I was bulimic every food I ate had psychological impact -- there were foods that were good, and foods that were bad, and I was correspondingly good or bad when I ate them.  My best days were days I restricted to around 500 calories and subsisted on special k cereal, apples and Mountain Dew.  If I ate something and felt I had tipped over into too much, I immediately felt horrible, then just binged and binged because I had already lost and it was too late.  Every day was shaped by my eating, my thoughts centered on food and the number on the scale, and my self-worth rose or dropped based on it.  Food was fraught.  

Yes. I have to watch this, and it is why things like weight watchers or calorie counting often backfire for me, sometimes spectacularly. I end up with WAY too much judgement tied up in it. It's the most freeing part of my weight loss surgery, NOT being terrified, literally terrified, of food anymore. Before, when I was in the thick of it, just driving by a billboard featuring food was an emotional experience. 

1 hour ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

It is good to have a the information out there of the range of healthy as there are a LOT of people who don't understand what a healthy weight is, or who might have hunger signals that are mixed up.  My daughter is your height but weighs probably 30 pounds more than you do.  She has never understood her hunger signals - she is always hungry (even as a toddler!) which leads her to overeat and then she feels sick.  She's never felt just satiated.   She has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and is wondering if that causes her miss her body's signals. She needs the charts to tell her what a healthy weight was because her body is not telling her anything useful, and now she is attempting to lose weight by calorie counting . -- she needs a strict routine to avoid overeating.  

I, on the other hand, have a natural weight right now-- I am 5'3 and 120-124 and I rarely think anymore about what I eat.  I could be thinner, as I do have a small build, but I am happy that I am not eating disordered any more and can eat without guilt or fear. My other two kids are like me -- they will probably never worry about their weight as they are able to understand and heed their body signals. 

regarding the bolded my ADHD son actually did notice that, but in the other direction. He would forget to eat because of ADHD. Meds usually make people drop weight, but for him he finally was remembering to eat so gained a bit (which was much needed). 

[SKL]

About perceptions - I am not sure exactly how it works, but it is common for women to think they are overweight when they are not.

Ever look back at old photos and think, "I was thin and looked nice then," but you remember at the time feeling fat and not wanting to be photographed?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bluegoat said:

 

I think it's much trickier than this.  For one thing, most of the images women have in mind about correct weight are simply wrong.  You mention a protruding belly upthread - most women who have had kids and are in middle age will likely have a protruding belly if they are in healthy physical form.  The image women have of an attractive women is an extreme body type to begin with - and then most models are either very young and don't have their adult weight yet, or they are actually underweight, often due to disordered eating or drugs.  THat's what people are aiming for in their mind's eye, or many of them are.

The other problem is that once people have begun to eat in a disordered way, their body no longer behaves in the way a normal healthy body does.  They do not have normal hunger signals, in fact eating can make them feel physically ill.    There are significant chemical imbalances that develop, and this is why doctors or loved ones start to worry when they see certain patterns, it becomes a sort of feedback loop.  It's a very powerful combination of reinforcement because it is satisfying certain mental compulsions, and physical changes that make that feel right, and then society can give good feedback for weight loss and bad for gain.

One other thing is, I think we are really primed for this stuff because a lot of people are not actually eating in a natural way.  The kind of approach you are describing to me, of having a goal weight and changing diet, is really not a natural way to eat.  Counting calories, restricting food groups, all of this is evidence of a problem with food, in some cases by individual but in many on the level of a society.  You don't notice any of our relatives in the animal world eating in this way, but they aren't usually overweight unless they come to eat human food, or underweight unless they are starving or ill.

A couple of things: 

First, I don’t think the thing about skinny, anorexic models being women’s image of ideal is valid anymore, though I agree this was largely true in the 70s and maybe 80s. By the 90s, it was much more muscular fitness held as a model (or at least, these were the women whose bodies I admired): Gabrielle Reece, Cory Everson, Halle Berry. For young women growing up now, there is much, much less super-skinny imaging. 

Also, re: protruding belly. Other than pregnancy, I am not aware of any positive condition of health that causes a protruding belly. It is a sign that something is sub-optimal. I’m not saying all people should have a belly so flat you could iron a shirt on it; I’m saying conditions like diastasis recti, which many women have after babies (myself included) are not optimal in health terms. People also get protruding bellies from drinking excess alcohol or from disturbed digestion that foments gas. Or from just plain adipose tissue. 

Second, I don’t disagree that bio-chemical stuff can get out of whack both precipitating and following poor eating management. It is also true, though, that applying some basic food science knowledge can affect what and how much a person wants to eat. If I quit eating sugar, I stop wanting it. In fact, some things taste excessively sugary if I have not been eating sugar. If my diet is too high in carbs I just feel noshy over and over all day and evening long. I don’t really know what the answer is as far as when/how much should others, including doctors, intervene. It is hard to say. 

Lastly, humans are not going to eat in the manner animals do no matter what. We are capable of invention and creating food and eating foods for certain social purposes and to generate certain feelings. The large majority of first-world people do this. We make birthday cakes and have pizza nights and Taco Tuesday and Superbowl parties and anniversary dinners and crab feasts and ice cream socials. Modern people living with all these environmental cues surrounding food cannot expect to simply remain in homeostasis of weight for the rest of our lives without keeping a finger on the pulse. I agree that it’s not really the natural state of things but that ship has sailed. In the natural state of things, we would sometimes go hungry because there is no fresh meat and the berry vines have died off and the pond is frozen so no fish or clams. In the natural state of things there would be no need for walking on a treadmill nor doing biceps curls, because we would walk to find nuts and seeds and we would curl when we lifted a deer for a meal. 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, SKL said:

About perceptions - I am not sure exactly how it works, but it is common for women to think they are overweight when they are not.

Ever look back at old photos and think, "I was thin and looked nice then," but you remember at the time feeling fat and not wanting to be photographed?

I have certainly heard of this, but I haven’t experienced it and haven’t noticed other women doing this (except in one instance, which I’ll explain in a minute). I haven’t had that experience with the photos; if anything, I have seen the opposite, and I usually believe it is because the photography is not good. I just saw a photo on FB of a woman who is thin and beautiful, but there was a “merger” of her arm to her waist because she was holding her pet dog. It made her look much wider than she is. It’s poor photography, not fat; I have seen photos of myself where I look fat for this reason, though I know I am not fat. 

The one instance I have experienced of a woman who is thin, even very underweight thin, claiming to think she’s fat reads to me as 100% a cry for attention and a hope of concerned reassurance. I do not think those women were actually looking in the mirror and seeing a fat woman where you could have played xylaphone on their ribs. I think they are hurting and distressed and they know that making this claim will call their friends and family to rescue mode. They may be consciously OR unconsciously doing this attention cry. But I don’t think it is because some mysterious thing happens to the image that comes through their retinas where suddenly they actually see a fat woman. 

[Bluegoat]

12 minutes ago, Quill said:

A couple of things: 

First, I don’t think the thing about skinny, anorexic models being women’s image of ideal is valid anymore, though I agree this was largely true in the 70s and maybe 80s. By the 90s, it was much more muscular fitness held as a model (or at least, these were the women whose bodies I admired): Gabrielle Reece, Cory Everson, Halle Berry. For young women growing up now, there is much, much less super-skinny imaging. 

Also, re: protruding belly. Other than pregnancy, I am not aware of any positive condition of health that causes a protruding belly. It is a sign that something is sub-optimal. I’m not saying all people should have a belly so flat you could iron a shirt on it; I’m saying conditions like diastasis recti, which many women have after babies (myself included) are not optimal in health terms. People also get protruding bellies from drinking excess alcohol or from disturbed digestion that foments gas. Or from just plain adipose tissue. 

Second, I don’t disagree that bio-chemical stuff can get out of whack both precipitating and following poor eating management. It is also true, though, that applying some basic food science knowledge can affect what and how much a person wants to eat. If I quit eating sugar, I stop wanting it. In fact, some things taste excessively sugary if I have not been eating sugar. If my diet is too high in carbs I just feel noshy over and over all day and evening long. I don’t really know what the answer is as far as when/how much should others, including doctors, intervene. It is hard to say. 

Lastly, humans are not going to eat in the manner animals do no matter what. We are capable of invention and creating food and eating foods for certain social purposes and to generate certain feelings. The large majority of first-world people do this. We make birthday cakes and have pizza nights and Taco Tuesday and Superbowl parties and anniversary dinners and crab feasts and ice cream socials. Modern people living with all these environmental cues surrounding food cannot expect to simply remain in homeostasis of weight for the rest of our lives without keeping a finger on the pulse. I agree that it’s not really the natural state of things but that ship has sailed. In the natural state of things, we would sometimes go hungry because there is no fresh meat and the berry vines have died off and the pond is frozen so no fish or clams. In the natural state of things there would be no need for walking on a treadmill nor doing biceps curls, because we would walk to find nuts and seeds and we would curl when we lifted a deer for a meal. 

 

Well, I just disagree about the belly thing.  And honestly, the thinness thing too.  I can see why it might seem different, that's not been my observation of what teen girls think.

As far as bio-chemical problems, I am talking specifically about people with anorexia, orthorexia, and similar problems.  It is not just a psychological issue, once the cycle of starvation has begun it can affect the body in such a way that people do not have normal perceptions and reactions to food, or normal perception of what is reasonable.  Awareness of how to eat properly is really of very limited use when that disorder cycle starts, it's kind of like telling someone who is in a manic bi-polar phase that they just need to remember to chill, maybe do a bit of yoga.  

I don't expect people to eat like animals either, but if you look at human cultures worldwide, many eat a lot more like that than we do. Scarcity is one reason, but not the only one.  I really am not convinced that eating in a way that is closing in on disordered is the way to solve our food problems - it's creating a real food culture to replace what's gone missing.

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, Quill said:

I have certainly heard of this, but I haven’t experienced it and haven’t noticed other women doing this (except in one instance, which I’ll explain in a minute). I haven’t had that experience with the photos; if anything, I have seen the opposite, and I usually believe it is because the photography is not good. I just saw a photo on FB of a woman who is thin and beautiful, but there was a “merger” of her arm to her waist because she was holding her pet dog. It made her look much wider than she is. It’s poor photography, not fat; I have seen photos of myself where I look fat for this reason, though I know I am not fat. 

The one instance I have experienced of a woman who is thin, even very underweight thin, claiming to think she’s fat reads to me as 100% a cry for attention and a hope of concerned reassurance. I do not think those women were actually looking in the mirror and seeing a fat woman where you could have played xylaphone on their ribs. I think they are hurting and distressed and they know that making this claim will call their friends and family to rescue mode. They may be consciously OR unconsciously doing this attention cry. But I don’t think it is because some mysterious thing happens to the image that comes through their retinas where suddenly they actually see a fat woman. 

I absolutely thought I was fat in high school, Looking back, I was fine. Same with young adulthood, I was constantly trying to lose weight, felt fat, etc and yet I was perfectly fine now that I look at the photos. 

 

[Pawz4me]

20 minutes ago, Quill said:

 

It is also true, though, that applying some basic food science knowledge can affect what and how much a person wants to eat. If I quit eating sugar, I stop wanting it. In fact, some things taste excessively sugary if I have not been eating sugar. If my diet is too high in carbs I just feel noshy over and over all day and evening long.

These are not universal truths for all people.

[Bluegoat]

I've done the photo thing - not long ago I saw a university photo of me and thought, wow, I had a really nice figure there, and great skin - I was a pretty attractive girl in the grunge mode.  At the time, that was not how I felt at all - alternately I thought I was too skinny or too fat and had a terrible complexion.   I wasn't super into fashion or make-up or that sort of thing either.

[Guest]

Quote

 don't expect people to eat like animals either, but if you look at human cultures worldwide, many eat a lot more like that than we do. Scarcity is one reason, but not the only one.  I really am not convinced that eating in a way that is closing in on disordered is the way to solve our food problems - it's creating a real food culture to replace what's gone missing

What is it that you’re calling “closing in on disordered”? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

These are not universal truths for all people.

Nothing is. I did not mean to imply that it is. Just that I don’t think we’re only at the mercy of what the chemicals tell us to do. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

I've done the photo thing - not long ago I saw a university photo of me and thought, wow, I had a really nice figure there, and great skin - I was a pretty attractive girl in the grunge mode.  At the time, that was not how I felt at all - alternately I thought I was too skinny or too fat and had a terrible complexion.   I wasn't super into fashion or make-up or that sort of thing either.

I mostly just think, “God, those pants were ugly!” 😄

[Bluegoat]

22 minutes ago, Quill said:

What is it that you’re calling “closing in on disordered”? 

 

Counting calories, target weights, most diet plans.

[Kassia]

54 minutes ago, Quill said:

 

I do not think those women were actually looking in the mirror and seeing a fat woman where you could have played xylaphone on their ribs. I think they are hurting and distressed and they know that making this claim will call their friends and family to rescue mode. They may be consciously OR unconsciously doing this attention cry. But I don’t think it is because some mysterious thing happens to the image that comes through their retinas where suddenly they actually see a fat woman. 

 

I am extremely uncomfortable if anyone comments on my body so I wouldn't do anything to call attention to my size but I can tell you that I have been underweight while still thinking I was fat and being extremely distressed about it.  Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing.  For me, I could be self-conscious about parts of me that were too thin while also being ashamed of the parts I thought were fat.  It had nothing to do with trying to get sympathy or attention from others - it was all about me not being good enough and taking control of my body with diet and exercise.  

[Annie G]

My mom grew up during the depression and when she was an adult, having food in the house made her feel secure. She always bought more food than we needed- and things were wasted. Fresh fruits and veggies that she longed for as a child were bought in large quantities so she never had to worry about running out before the next grocery run.  Additionally, when we were growing up, she showed her love by fixing us food. Food to celebrate! Food to mourn.   So yeah, we had a relationship with food.  In our house food meant security and love. 

I give my dad so much credit- he knew my mom’s food insecurity as a kid impacted her as an adult, and I never once heard him complain about the wasted food. We were living paycheck to paycheck but he knew how important it was for Mom to have a full fridge. 

 

So yes, I totally get that for a lot of people, food isn’t just about fueling your body.  And once it’s emotionally linked, it is HARD to disconnect. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Annie G

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

I am extremely uncomfortable if anyone comments on my body so I wouldn't do anything to call attention to my size but I can tell you that I have been underweight while still thinking I was fat and being extremely distressed about it.  Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing.  For me, I could be self-conscious about parts of me that were too thin while also being ashamed of the parts I thought were fat.  It had nothing to do with trying to get sympathy or attention from others - it was all about me not being good enough and taking control of my body with diet and exercise.  

I assume it can be a real thing just like other disorders where reality is distorted - you know the door is locked but you have to check anyway. I don’t think it is as common as it is made to sound, though. 

I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. Just that I haven’t seen it. I knew two women, both people I am related to, who claimed to be fat when they were underweight. Both did this, I more-than-strongly believe, as a cry for attention. They knew people would react a certain way and so they made a production of it. Hard to explain online, but easy to recognize if you were sitting there. One would make a display of not eating. It was definitely disordered, but not in the way described; i.e., I do not believe either of these ladies looked in the mirror and *saw* a fat person standing there when they knew they weighed an extremely light weight that could not be called chubby by anybody’s measure. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Counting calories, target weights, most diet plans.

I don’t totally disagree with you, there. But I think it is a necessary reality for many people living with the food abundance and structure we call modern. 

I think if we could only access food in a natural manner, nobody would be obese. 

[SKL]

44 minutes ago, Quill said:

I assume it can be a real thing just like other disorders where reality is distorted - you know the door is locked but you have to check anyway. I don’t think it is as common as it is made to sound, though. 

I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. Just that I haven’t seen it. I knew two women, both people I am related to, who claimed to be fat when they were underweight. Both did this, I more-than-strongly believe, as a cry for attention. They knew people would react a certain way and so they made a production of it. Hard to explain online, but easy to recognize if you were sitting there. One would make a display of not eating. It was definitely disordered, but not in the way described; i.e., I do not believe either of these ladies looked in the mirror and *saw* a fat person standing there when they knew they weighed an extremely light weight that could not be called chubby by anybody’s measure. 

I certainly don't go around telling people I feel fat.  That doesn't mean I'm not feeling that though.  And I have read many resources that indicate this is a pretty common thing for women.  You are blessed that it was never a thing for you.  But you don't need to assume bad intentions in others who confide this to you.

I mentioned in my thread that the kids in the 7th grade locker room all look in the mirror and talk about how fat they are, yet only a couple actually have excess weight.  It isn't just one kid saying this.  You can say "oh well they are all just trying to fit in and get attention," but my personal experience and reading tells me otherwise.

[ktgrok]

Yeah, it is so common there is a meme about wishing you were as fat as you used to think you were back when you were thin. 

My 5 yr old niece has body image issues. It's real. 

 

[SKL]

I remember when I was 12yo, sitting on my legs in gym class, and for the first time I noticed how my thighs looked that way ... the little bump of fat that sticks out inside the leg just above the knee.  I looked around and didn't notice other girls having as big of a bump.  Note that I was wearing a size 3 at the time, and family called me Skinny ___.  I think that may have been the first time I felt "fat," but it wasn't the last; I don't think I've ever really felt satisfied with my waist since then.  And I don't have an ED; I just don't love my body, as I maintain is quite common for women.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, SKL said:

I certainly don't go around telling people I feel fat.  That doesn't mean I'm not feeling that though.  And I have read many resources that indicate this is a pretty common thing for women.  You are blessed that it was never a thing for you.  But you don't need to assume bad intentions in others who confide this to you.

I mentioned in my thread that the kids in the 7th grade locker room all look in the mirror and talk about how fat they are, yet only a couple actually have excess weight.  It isn't just one kid saying this.  You can say "oh well they are all just trying to fit in and get attention," but my personal experience and reading tells me otherwise.

I think you’re misunderstanding me. It’s not like the two women I was mentioning “confided” in me. They displayed their loathing of their non-existant fat to a room with 8 or more people in hearing range. In one case, one woman threw her sandwich off the boat and said, “I don’t need that.” This same person make a plate for a meal and then paused for a moment, then threw it in the trash in front of all family members. She was in a not-okay spot mentally. She dramatized her refusal to eat at times. 

A bunch of 7th grade girls in a locker room is a whole ‘nother can of worms. I don’t think I ever claimed to be fat, but it’s not as though other girls lauded my perfect figure. Mostly I was called anorexic or too skinny and I really only trickled off of hearing that sometime after I had my third kid. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

I remember when I was 12yo, sitting on my legs in gym class, and for the first time I noticed how my thighs looked that way ... the little bump of fat that sticks out inside the leg just above the knee.  I looked around and didn't notice other girls having as big of a bump.  Note that I was wearing a size 3 at the time, and family called me Skinny ___.  I think that may have been the first time I felt "fat," but it wasn't the last; I don't think I've ever really felt satisfied with my waist since then.  And I don't have an ED; I just don't love my body, as I maintain is quite common for women.

Ha! I remember that, too, or really just sitting on any hard surface that flattens out the mass of the thigh. I even think that’s not terribly attractive now! 

I think it is common to not love the body you have, yes. Especially for women - one more thing we’re supposed to do well. I just don’t think people look in the mirror and “see” some reality that isn’t there. I don’t disagree that many millions of women see a reality that *IS* there and aren’t happy about it. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. Just that I haven’t seen it. I knew two women, both people I am related to, who claimed to be fat when they were underweight. Both did this, I more-than-strongly believe, as a cry for attention. They knew people would react a certain way and so they made a production of it. Hard to explain online, but easy to recognize if you were sitting there. One would make a display of not eating. It was definitely disordered, but not in the way described; i.e., I do not believe either of these ladies looked in the mirror and *saw* a fat person standing there when they knew they weighed an extremely light weight that could not be called chubby by anybody’s measure. 

My friend with anorexia was emaciated. Her ribs showed, her cheeks were hollowed, she ceased menstruating. She still saw herself as fat and barely ate. Because it's a disease. People with mental illness are not logical. It was not a cry for attention, she was severely ill.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

My friend with anorexia was emaciated. Her ribs showed, her cheeks were hollowed, she ceased menstruating. She still saw herself as fat and barely ate. Because it's a disease. People with mental illness are not logical. It was not a cry for attention, she was severely ill.

These are not mutually exclusive. 

Someone who cuts her wrists and then posts it on Instagram is both suffering from a mental illness and, because of the illness, crying out for attention. Trying to reassure herself that someone notices, cares, will intervene. Otherwise, there was no point posting it on IG. 

My relative who made a BLT complete with a dill pickle on the side and then threw it in the trash was mentally ill, I have no doubt. But also crying out for attention -  See what crazy things I do? I need someone to intervene, help, care! 

[Selkie]

Just jumping in to recommend a book that I'm reading at the moment. It is Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are by Robert Plomin.

The author explains that a large percentage of the population (70%, I think) have a variation in their DNA that makes it very easy for them to gain weight and become overweight. The variation was an evolutionary advantage, which is why it is so widespread in the population. Even when thin, people with this variation weigh several pounds more than thin people without it. It affects hunger and response to food cues and satiety. Basically, people with this variation have to work much, much harder to keep themselves from becoming overweight.

That's just a brief summary, but there is lots more interesting info in the book. It was a real eyeopener for me to find out the enormous influence that DNA has on weight.

 

  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Just jumping in to recommend a book that I'm reading at the moment. It is Blueprint: How DNA Makes Us Who We Are by Robert Plomin.

The author explains that a large percentage of the population (70%, I think) have a variation in their DNA that makes it very easy for them to gain weight and become overweight. The variation was an evolutionary advantage, which is why it is so widespread in the population. Even when thin, people with this variation weigh several pounds more than thin people without it. It affects hunger and response to food cues and satiety. Basically, people with this variation have to work much, much harder to keep themselves from becoming overweight.

That's just a brief summary, but there is lots more interesting info in the book. It was a real eyeopener for me to find out the enormous influence that DNA has on weight.

 

  

Does the author frame this relative to food security vs. Non-modern people groups? IOW, do people with this genetc variation exist in tribal cultures, yet it doesn’t express itself as obesity because food which promotes obesity (both type and quantity) is not present? 

[Selkie]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Does the author frame this relative to food security vs. Non-modern people groups? IOW, do people with this genetc variation exist in tribal cultures, yet it doesn’t express itself as obesity because food which promotes obesity (both type and quantity) is not present? 

Yes, he says that people all over the world have this variation. When those people live in a society like ours, with cheap and plentiful food, they will tend to become overweight because of their genetics.

[KathyBC]

You see this is in domesticated animals too. Ponies kept on scrub land maintain their weight. Kept by a loving owner, they can easily become overweight.

Edited November 27, 2018 by KathyBC

[KathyBC]

While the stories of neglected animals happen too often and are heartbreaking, it is far more common to see domesticated animals overfed and not as active as they could be.
Which is why I think for people too, in our society, it is healthier to watch our calories and activity levels. Disordered control is for sure unhealthy, but for the majority of us, we need to monitor and care for ourselves. Self-discipline is not a bad thing.

On the flip side, most of us can see that a spayed 8 year old dog will not look like a puppy, and it would probably do us some good to allow that 40+ year old adults are going to be a little rounder and that is also not a bad thing. We had an interesting thread on here not too long ago about how 50 year old women used to have a certain look, and how that has changed.

Edited November 28, 2018 by KathyBC

[kiwik]

On 11/27/2018 at 4:23 PM, TechWife said:

I don't understand this.Weight is a measurement of gravity. We don't have relationships with food (well, I don't - guess I shouldn't speak for others). Food is fuel. Many people can choose the quality of fuel they consume. People make different choices.

For a lot of us food isn't just fuel.  That is why we struggle with not gaining weight.  

[kiwik]

8 hours ago, Quill said:

Nothing is. I did not mean to imply that it is. Just that I don’t think we’re only at the mercy of what the chemicals tell us to do. 

No but for some people the energy required to control chemical urges is a lot higher.  I can maintain my weight only if weight maintainence is at first or second place on my list of priorities as it requires a lot of effort and attention.  Since I have had kids it has not been at the top.  Not drinking alcohol though is really easy for me but very hard for others.

 

It you only have to put about 3 out of 10 worth of effort to achieve something it can be hard to understand that for others they are putting 9 out of 10 every day and sometimes just can't keep up the pace.

[Valley Girl]

16 hours ago, Quill said:

I assume it can be a real thing just like other disorders where reality is distorted - you know the door is locked but you have to check anyway. I don’t think it is as common as it is made to sound, though. 

I didn’t say it doesn’t exist. Just that I haven’t seen it. I knew two women, both people I am related to, who claimed to be fat when they were underweight. Both did this, I more-than-strongly believe, as a cry for attention. They knew people would react a certain way and so they made a production of it. Hard to explain online, but easy to recognize if you were sitting there. One would make a display of not eating. It was definitely disordered, but not in the way described; i.e., I do not believe either of these ladies looked in the mirror and *saw* a fat person standing there when they knew they weighed an extremely light weight that could not be called chubby by anybody’s measure. 

For someone who is anorexic, it is NOT a cry for attention in a "look at me" way. Maybe think of it like this. My eyes would see the same thing yours do--the ribs, the protruding hip bones, etc. But it's as if those messages get interpreted differently in the brain. You can "know" intellectually you're thin. But the disordered thinking puts a different meaning on it.

[shawthorne44]

15 hours ago, Selkie said:

Yes, he says that people all over the world have this variation. When those people live in a society like ours, with cheap and plentiful food, they will tend to become overweight because of their genetics.

 

I would think that those would be the healthy people in a limited food culture.  Our fat is protection in times of food scarcity.   
 

[shawthorne44]

1 hour ago, Valley Girl said:

For someone who is anorexic, it is NOT a cry for attention in a "look at me" way. Maybe think of it like this. My eyes would see the same thing yours do--the ribs, the protruding hip bones, etc. But it's as if those messages get interpreted differently in the brain. You can "know" intellectually you're thin. But the disordered thinking puts a different meaning on it.

(picking this post to reply to at random)

As a teen in the 80's I liked to read Psychology Today (before it really went downhill)    It discussed a study where they used a projector with three bars on the screen which could be made smaller or bigger.   They would tell people to change the length of the bars on the screen so that the projected lines on the wall were the actual size of the person's chest, waist and hips.  Teenage girls pretty universally made the bars too big.   Those with eating disorders made them VERY much too big.   The exception was black girls.   There were exceptions, but as a group they were pretty accurate.