Help conversing

[Scarlett]

I have a person in my life that I LOVE dearly. (and yes it is my dh and no this is not husband bashing )  And in most conversations he is easy and we have great back and forth....but sometimes...and I am starting to see it is when he has info to impart to me, he gives bits and pieces of facts in random spurts and I end up being frustrated and irritated and thinking 'what the heck are you trying to tell me?'

Case in point---he went to the dentist today.  He called me after and I asked, 'how was the dentist?'  He says, 'I will live.'  I say 'that's good.'  Then he starts in saying he needs a series of deep cleaning and after that will need to go in every three months. Ok. So far so good. Then he says he needs a mouth guard and maybe one from Wal-mart will work--but if not the dentist charges $320.  And each cleaning costs $57 after insurance he thinks. .  And a filling he needs costs $150 after insurance pays.  And the whole thing will be about $1400 if insurance doesn't pay.  I said, 'oh, how much will insurance pay?'  He says, 'I don't know'.

Reading over what I just typed it is difficult to convey the way the information doesn't seem to be cohesive.  Ugh.  I try really hard to just LISTEN and see if it starts coming together, but then we have long periods of silence and he thinks the call is dropped or that I am not paying attention.  

I just wish I could figure out a way to keep conversations like that from going so wrong. I know it isn't just me, because our teen boys complain about it to me.....and they get VERY frustrated with him. And one time my boss relayed to me that dh called him and rambled on for 10 minutes before my boss was able to ascertain the point of the call.  

 

If anyone has any ideas on how to converse with such a person, please clue me in. 

[JIN MOUSA]

I have a friend who's realized that her DH is a verbal processor, so the words come out as jumbled together as the thoughts are in his head, and talking through it is how he makes cohesive sense of things. Does that sound familiar?

If so, I think something that has helped her is to expect that when he first begins to talk about something, it's going to be jumbled and all over the place. Then, as the conversation progresses, she can try to put the information together in a logical way and check with him if her understanding is correct. 

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, JIN MOUSA said:

I have a friend who's realized that her DH is a verbal processor, so the words come out as jumbled together as the thoughts are in his head, and talking through it is how he makes cohesive sense of things. Does that sound familiar?

If so, I think something that has helped her is to expect that when he first begins to talk about something, it's going to be jumbled and all over the place. Then, as the conversation progresses, she can try to put the information together in a logical way and check with him if her understanding is correct. 

Yes!!!  That is it....and that is probably exactly what he is doing....add in my impatient tendencies and it doesn't end well.  I just need to learn to listen and murmur hmm, oh, or I see.  And try to figure it out after he finishes talking.

[JIN MOUSA]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Yes!!!  That is it....and that is probably exactly what he is doing....add in my impatient tendencies and it doesn't end well.  I just need to learn to listen and murmur hmm, oh, or I see.  And try to figure it out after he finishes talking.

Yes, it definitely takes longer, and feels much more inefficient than a "simple" conveyance of information for us non-verbal processors. 

[Scarlett]

Right.  He could have said, 'hey I am developing some gum issues and will have to start having more regular cleanings.  And I am grinding my teeth so I need a mouth guard.  And I have an appt to get a cavity filled next week.  Not sure of all the costs yet, the dentist is checking with our insurance.'  

And after each of those statements in a normal conversation I might have commented or asked a further question.....but with him....so hard to explain...it is like he is just all over the map.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Danae said:

Much sympathy.

Many years ago my husband was trying to explain the game "Marco Polo," which I had heard of but never payed. He gave me about 10 minutes of rules and variants about "when you say this I have to say this" and what you can do if you're underwater and what's allowed if you get out of the pool and various strategies and I was more and more confused and finally said "I really don't understand the point of this game." He got kind of offended (lots of memories playing this as a kid) and said "it's a game, why does it have to have a point?"

After multiple iterations of the above, we saw a group playing and I realized the part that he never got around to mentioning -- the person who is it has their eyes closed and is trying to locate the other players by sound. 

 

We have this type of conversation ALL THE TIME. I did finally learn to just ask "What the h--- are you talking about?" when he starts giving me details without any indication of what they relate to. But he has no concept at all of starting with the important bits that make the other bits make sense.

Yes!!!!!  That is a great example!  Wow.  Thank you for understanding.  Unfortunately when I say 'what the heck are you talking about?' he gets his feelings hurt and/or gets grumpy or tells me to stop treating him like he is an idiot.  

[fairfarmhand]

Add me to the “married to a verbal processor” camp. It’s soooo frustrating. Multiply that times a factor of a million if he’s trying to talk while driving or doing ANYTHING or else. 

We do better face to face—-not on the phone. And looking right at one another. 

[fairfarmhand]

Btw, it’s soooo helpful that my dhs coworkers have commented on this very same thing. So he doesn’t take it as personally as he used to. 

I also have to discern whether hers talking to me or just sorting things out mentally. Because sometimes I need to pay attention but others I don’t.

[Kanin]

My DH is the same way. He sometimes likes to talk about things to me (not with me)... but really it's more like he's talking to himself. He figures things out by talking them out. Unfortunately, I'm really impatient sometimes and if I cut him off, he gets offended. If I explain that he's talking about things I have no clue about (computer programming, statistics, etc), and he may as well be speaking in another language - but he says it's okay, just listen!

Sometimes, I ask him for the Main Idea. That sometimes works and he'll tell me the most important thing. Otherwise, he'll tell me EVERYTHING. It's why he's a great teacher. But he definitely gives lots of details.

I never heard the term verbal processor before. That's helpful! I like to process things alone, let some time go by, process some more, and THEN share. So it can be tough for me to hear the stream of consciousness.

[Carol in Cal.]

Ooooh boy.

So.

Yeah.

Starting in the middle.  Rambling everywhere.  No clarity, like, EVER.

Once in a while I say, "Can you please tell me the first thing that happened?"  or  "Wait, are we talking about someone other than Bill now?  Because if we switched people, I missed who the current one is.  But this doesn't sound like Bill."  It's like he thinks I can read his mind, and that all the introductory bits are clear to me because they are clear to him.  So they go without saying.  Except.  They totally don't. 

[Beth S]

Wow.  Thanks.  I realized I'm a verbal processor . . . which drives my dh crazy.

Maybe I can find a path to improving! 

I am forever grateful for the things I've learned from the Hive.  ThankYouVeryMuch.  ?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Beth S

[Scarlett]

50 minutes ago, Mainer said:

My DH is the same way. He sometimes likes to talk about things to me (not with me)... but really it's more like he's talking to himself. He figures things out by talking them out. Unfortunately, I'm really impatient sometimes and if I cut him off, he gets offended. If I explain that he's talking about things I have no clue about (computer programming, statistics, etc), and he may as well be speaking in another language - but he says it's okay, just listen!

Sometimes, I ask him for the Main Idea. That sometimes works and he'll tell me the most important thing. Otherwise, he'll tell me EVERYTHING. It's why he's a great teacher. But he definitely gives lots of details.

I never heard the term verbal processor before. That's helpful! I like to process things alone, let some time go by, process some more, and THEN share. So it can be tough for me to hear the stream of consciousness.

Ha yes I do sometimes ask him for the Main Idea.  Sometimes that helps. And when he is talking on and on about engineering or something technical I can listen and nod because I know in the end I really do not have to understand.....but when we are talking about dental work and money I NEED to understand the bottom line.  

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, Beth S said:

Wow.  Thanks.  I realized I'm a verbal processor . . . which drives my dh crazy.

Maybe I can find a path to improving! 

I am forever grateful for the things I've learned from the Hive.  ThankYouVeryMuch.  ?

I would say think of conversation a little like you do giving a book report.  Main Idea.  Supporting details.  Wrap it up with a conclusion.  ? And stop talking long enough (before the conclusion maybe)  for the listener to ask a question or two for clarity.

 

Like with my dh's story this morning 'Ugh, I need quite a bit of work done. Going to cost us a pretty penny.  Spread out over several months though.  I will have more details once she runs it by insurance.'

Edited August 14, 2018 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

My DH will sometimes do this.  Sometimes I wait (not so patiently) until he gets to the end, at which point I say.....ok, so what does that all mean?  Other times I will have to interrupt him and say "ok, honey, I am sorry, I am NOT following you."  

As someone else mentioned, I realize it is easier to deal with face to face.  On the phone and texting is sometimes brutal.  You would think text would be helpful, but I can't tell you how many times I ask him to explain what he is trying to tell me and he says DID YOU EVEN READ THE TEXT I SENT YOU!!  And he will copy and paste the same text which still doesn't help me.

[Scarlett]

And you can imagine how this over explaining information overload goes with teen boys.  

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, --- said:

Yeah, that sounds kind of familiar ...

So our car had a flat, front right tire yesterday and I had to take it to the dealer today for other things, plus the flat tire.  Since the flat couldn't be repaired, we bought 2 new front tires.  I get the following text from dh while I'm at the dealer:

"Have them take off the tire with the least remaining tread depth."  (for us to keep) 

Ds, who was with me, also read it and said, "Huh???"  I even read it to the woman at the service counter and she went, "Huh??" 

So I called dh to get him to 'explain'.  As usual, he was impatient and didn't see the problem because he was clear as crystal - in HIS mind.  After a couple of attempts to get him to clarify, I finally realized he was talking about all 4 (!!) tires.  But the appointment we had was only for the front 2 tires.  It was only when I said that that he FINALLY realized the problem.  And I promptly told him to call the dealer himself to make sure they did what he wanted them to do.  Even though I was sitting right there in the dealer waiting room.  lol  He did and they did what he wanted them to do.  But, good grief, the convoluted messy interactions it took dh to finally explain something so simple to 3 different people ...  (rolling eyes).  He could have said the whole thing in ONE sentence and saved us all a ton of confusion.  

I guess I can sympathize with you.  But I don't have much of a solution.  Although it does sound like your dh may be more easygoing than my dh, which might help.  ? 

Well, he can get pretty irritated when I get irritated or when I don't understand him.  He is such a wonderful, sweet, kind man.  So I aim for kind and peaceful interactions with him. It makes me feel bad when we leave each other (in person or hanging up) with irritation or impatience hanging over us.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

I still don't understand lol

Well I don't either, but see I am so used to just letting things go.  ?

[Garga]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

 

I also have to discern whether hers talking to me or just sorting things out mentally. Because sometimes I need to pay attention but others I don’t.

This happens at my house, too.  DH talks a lot and sometimes he’s just talking to the air, thinking things through out loud.  Other times, he’s talking to me.  Sometimes I think he’s talking to the air and have shut out what he’s saying, until he says, “Um...excuse me!  I was talking to you!”  Oh!  Sorry!  Wasn’t paying attention.  ?.  He must think I’m so rude, but I got bored with listening to so much air talk over the years, and now I tend to assume he’s air talking more than he actually is.  He probably started a thread on some website for IT guys about how his wife never listens to him when he’s talking and what can he do about it.  ?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Garga

[katilac]

I'm going to randomly give you my advice on mouth guards. 

The expensive one from the dentist should be the last resort. They are SO uncomfortable that I don't think I know anyone who actually wears theirs regularly. I am very motivated, because I chip my front teeth grinding, but it's kind of impossible to keep yourself from taking it out when you're pretty much asleep. I have the style that is pinkish and made on the spot, my friend has the more typical waxy-looking style and says it is equally uncomfortable. 

Microwave-to-fit ones are also awful. 

The premade, adjustable ones from Walmart and such are definitely better. I think they usually last about 6 months, depending on how you grind. 

My favorite by far are the disposable ones. Much smaller, lighter, and more comfortable. I can't grind front or back while wearing them, and I don't think I've ever taken it out during the night. I use these: https://smile.amazon.com/Plackers-Grind-Dental-Night-Grinding/dp/B003GDKH9C/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1534279159&sr=8-3&keywords=grind%2Bno%2Bmore%2Bmouth%2Bguard&th=1

 

[wendyroo]

3 hours ago, Danae said:

Much sympathy.

Many years ago my husband was trying to explain the game "Marco Polo," which I had heard of but never payed. He gave me about 10 minutes of rules and variants about "when you say this I have to say this" and what you can do if you're underwater and what's allowed if you get out of the pool and various strategies and I was more and more confused and finally said "I really don't understand the point of this game." He got kind of offended (lots of memories playing this as a kid) and said "it's a game, why does it have to have a point?"

After multiple iterations of the above, we saw a group playing and I realized the part that he never got around to mentioning -- the person who is it has their eyes closed and is trying to locate the other players by sound. 

 

We have this type of conversation ALL THE TIME. I did finally learn to just ask "What the h--- are you talking about?" when he starts giving me details without any indication of what they relate to. But he has no concept at all of starting with the important bits that make the other bits make sense.

Just the other day DH was trying to explain Yahtzee to the kids while we ate dinner.  He kept talking and talking and they kept looking more and more confused.  I tried interrupting a couple times, but he shooed me away, saying "They'll get it.  It was my favorite game as a kid!".  Finally after 20 minutes, when he was getting frustrated by their lack of understanding, I pointed out that he had not yet uttered the word "dice" and that the kids had literally no chance of grasping the game as long as he left out the fundamental component.

Wouldn't "dice" logically fall within the first two sentences of a Yahtzee explanation?  He is an engineer!!  Clearly explaining complex ideas is right there in the job description!!

Wendy

[Carol in Cal.]

And then, ladies and gentlemen, then there is the piece de resistance...the driving directions.  

 

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, katilac said:

I'm going to randomly give you my advice on mouth guards. 

The expensive one from the dentist should be the last resort. They are SO uncomfortable that I don't think I know anyone who actually wears theirs regularly. I am very motivated, because I chip my front teeth grinding, but it's kind of impossible to keep yourself from taking it out when you're pretty much asleep. I have the style that is pinkish and made on the spot, my friend has the more typical waxy-looking style and says it is equally uncomfortable. 

Microwave-to-fit ones are also awful. 

The premade, adjustable ones from Walmart and such are definitely better. I think they usually last about 6 months, depending on how you grind. 

My favorite by far are the disposable ones. Much smaller, lighter, and more comfortable. I can't grind front or back while wearing them, and I don't think I've ever taken it out during the night. I use these: https://smile.amazon.com/Plackers-Grind-Dental-Night-Grinding/dp/B003GDKH9C/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1534279159&sr=8-3&keywords=grind%2Bno%2Bmore%2Bmouth%2Bguard&th=1

 

This is very helpful!  Thank you!

[Scarlett]

I think engineer is the common element.

[Scarlett]

33 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

and which element would this be.....the giving or the following of them?

My DH cannot follow driving directions to save his life.  Stick the man in a forest with a compass and map, he can get out.  Stick the man in a city with the same thing and he becomes the ant from Bugs Life (I'm LOOSSSTTTT!)

 

Why yes, yes my DH IS an engineer!

Mine can't give me directions either.  

I feel so much  better knowing I am not alone!  LOL

[Carol in Cal.]

30 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

and which element would this be.....the giving or the following of them?

The giving of them.

My DH cannot follow driving directions to save his life.  Stick the man in a forest with a compass and map, he can get out.  Stick the man in a city with the same thing and he becomes the ant from Bugs Life (I'm LOOSSSTTTT!)

This would be me.  And it totally makes sense, because the forest is deeply engaging while the city is boring.  Each rock and tree and turn of the path in the forest looks different and interesting, while the city just all runs together in a visual blur.

Why yes, yes my DH IS an engineer!

This, too.

 

But the giving of directions...

1.  Starts in the middle

2.  Includes a lot of mistakes

3.  Includes a lot of 'you know, hon, the McDonalds.'  which I do not know.  For one thing, I hate McDonalds.  For another, I don't notice fast food places when I'm driving around.  Just give me vectors, in order.  A street and a direction and a distance.  That's what I need.  Then a street name and direction to turn onto.  In the actual order in which I would take them.  See how easy?

4.  Involves impatience and often yelling.

[Garga]

8 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

 

The first time he came to pick me up.  

"Ok, you are going to go south on 26.  You will pass Worthsville, then Smith, and then Tracy North.  Then, you will turn east (which is left) on Tracy.  Now, remember, DO NOT TURN on Tracy North.  Pass it.  Turn east/left on TRACY. There will be no stoplight on Tracy, so make sure you turn at the stop SIGN. "

Guess who was half an hour late because he turned on Tracy North.  (and......he turned west/right lol.)

 

 

  Yes, this!  The more I say “DON’T do X, do Y,” the more likely it is he’ll do X and not Y.  ?

[wendyroo]

57 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Why yes, yes my DH IS an engineer!

But, wait.  I'm an engineer and I give amazing explanations and directions, if I do say so myself.  ?

My problem is that I try to convey something to DH, like the procedure for picking up kids from zoo camp - which he is going to have to do the next day...in order to claim our children - and he tunes me out after half a sentence.  I try to tell him all the steps, clearly and in order, and he hear, "Park in the lot by the big tree...", decides that is easy enough, and figures he can safely ignore the rest.  I can't count how many times he gets in the middle of a job that I explained exactly how to do and then texts me confused..."But, where exactly are the kids?  I parked by the big tree and still can't see them.  And what do I have to do with this colored clip?"  Drives me insane!!!!

Wendy

[J-rap]

I feel like I'm a little like that when I'm trying to talk about something very complicated.  Often I practice in my head first, because otherwise I'm not sure how it'll come out.  It's really weird, actually, to think of myself like that, because I have a journalism background and was taught to be very direct and clear.  I think I can do that with a lot of things, but not when it gets into layers of complexity.  So, I guess I have no advice!  Just that I recognize that in myself, and sometimes it does help to practice in my head first.

[happi duck]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

I'm going to randomly give you my advice on mouth guards. 

The expensive one from the dentist should be the last resort. They are SO uncomfortable that I don't think I know anyone who actually wears theirs regularly. I am very motivated, because I chip my front teeth grinding, but it's kind of impossible to keep yourself from taking it out when you're pretty much asleep. I have the style that is pinkish and made on the spot, my friend has the more typical waxy-looking style and says it is equally uncomfortable. 

Microwave-to-fit ones are also awful. 

The premade, adjustable ones from Walmart and such are definitely better. I think they usually last about 6 months, depending on how you grind. 

My favorite by far are the disposable ones. Much smaller, lighter, and more comfortable. I can't grind front or back while wearing them, and I don't think I've ever taken it out during the night. I use these: https://smile.amazon.com/Plackers-Grind-Dental-Night-Grinding/dp/B003GDKH9C/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1534279159&sr=8-3&keywords=grind%2Bno%2Bmore%2Bmouth%2Bguard&th=1

 

These night guards are fantastic!  The only kind that have ever helped me.

[Another Lynn]

All of this.  Plus vague pronoun references.  I can never follow a story because I don't know who "he" is - all 5 of them.  

[fairfarmhand]

Mines an engineer too! It’s words. Math all day long but words...

[Soror]

16 hours ago, Beth S said:

Wow.  Thanks.  I realized I'm a verbal processor . . . which drives my dh crazy.

Maybe I can find a path to improving! 

I am forever grateful for the things I've learned from the Hive.  ThankYouVeryMuch.  ?

Me too, I have to get things out to think sometimes (I post on the board or talk to friends for this sometimes).

But dh is the one who over complicates everything he talks about. When he's telling a story it is always, to make a short story long..... And he has to use his hands and quite often draw diagrams. 

I sometimes don't know where I'm going in a conversation because I need to think about it out loud and sometimes he catches that but for general information I can convey it just fine. He has difficulty getting to the point. And he totally zones out when I'm speaking to him. I *just* shared a meme today that is so true, 

[Scarlett]

When I first met dh, the friend who introduced us asked dh's sister (who was also her friend) 'what is the worst thing about him?'  Sister thinks long and hard and said, 'he tells really  long stories.'  Friend says, 'that's it?  That is the worst thing you can say about him?'  Sister says, 'No, you don't understand.  The stories are REALLY long.'

We laugh at that story -because it is true.  And when it is a story about what happened back in CA and he stops the story to try and recall John's last name, it is endearing or if it goes on too much we say, 'we don't need to know John's last name' and generally all is well with this quirk of his.  But when there is information-possibly vital information--that needs to be imparted to someone else it gets REALLY frustrating.  

[fairfarmhand]

My dh asked for earplugs for the mower th other day. He’s worried he’ll damage his hearing over time. I was thinking “great. One more way for us to poorly communicate if he loses his hearing. Then we can shout our confusion at one another.”