High school science sequence

[Bear2300]

Why is it the sequence it is?  Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Advance stuff?  Just curious.   Next year will be my second child's year starting high school work and I was going to out source science but decided to just let him pick a package curriculum and do his own thing. His sister did Sonlight until 11th grade and started college courses with a few co-op classes.  For him, the curriculum package has chemistry first which is against the 'norm'.  So ya, just curious how the whole sequence got started. 

Oh and little background - I have now officially been thru all the Apologia science books from elementary to high school.

[kiana]

Because as traditionally taught, it pairs well with the math sequence. You'd be taking chemistry, which has some algebra in it, when you took algebra 2, and you'd be taking physics, which has more algebra and some trig, when you took pre-calculus. 

 

But the only thing you really need to worry about is whether your child will have the math/science prereqs for the curriculum *you* want to use. There's a really good argument for doing chemistry before biology to better understand the biology, or doing conceptual physics first (if you google "physics first" you will find a lot of info) to better understand the chemistry/biology, or doing some of each every year (my preference in a dream world, but oh well).

[OneStepAtATime]

Yes that, as far as I can tell, is the main reason for the traditional science sequence.  Your child needs to know the math required for specific science subjects as they are traditionally presented.  Chemistry and Physics usually require higher level math skills than a Freshman in High School has traditionally had.  There are some Chemistry and Physics courses that do not have those high school math requirements that are really good but then some colleges would expect the student to have taken courses using Chemistry/Physics material that includes those math requirements.  Since they took a course that was more conceptual in nature and did not have that math component that would mean the student either has to take a version that includes the math after already completing one that doesn't or they may be behind peers when they go on to college.

 

I agree with kiana, an integrated approach that is very well done and builds as math skills build would be nice but most high school science material does not seem to do that.

 

If your student has the math necessary to take the course then it doesn't matter as much what sequence you use.  They are all tied to each other.  

[HollyDay]

Just keep the math in line with the science.  We did Physics senior year because it lined up well with math.  If you are doing a physics program that needs less math (like Conceptual Physics) then you could do it earlier. Biology is usually done 9th grade because little to no math is required.  Chemistry needs some Algebra or should be done with Algebra 2. 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by HollyDay

[scholastica]

In European systems, it’s often flipped-physics, chemistry, biology, advanced physics. Novare Science uses this sequence. The physics taught early does not require the same level of math as a traditional school one. The last course in the series does. This is science with a Christian worldview, but not a young earth one.

[regentrude]

The reason schools usually do biology first is the lagging math progression; because they don't teach algebra until 9th grade, most students lack the math skills to take physics or chemistry in 9th grade.

From a philosophical point of view, physics first makes more sense since this is the most basic of sciences.

 

ETA: I think the whole concept of one-science-per-year is stupid. In my home country, all three sciences are taught concurrently. Bio starting in 5th, physics in 6th, chem in 7th, and all three are studied every year throughout high school, until, I think, in the last two years students select one to focus on.

Edited February 2, 2018 by regentrude

[freesia]

My dd has started with chemistry bc that was the lab available at our co-op. She'll do biology next year. She's had Algebra and is doing great in Chem. In fact, I like doing it this year bc she is doing geometry and I like the extra algebra practice she is getting in Chem.

[scholastica]

The reason schools usually do biology first is the lagging math progression; because they don't teach algebra until 9th grade, most students lack the math skills to take physics or chemistry in 9th grade.

From a philosophical point of view, physics first makes more sense since this is the most basic of sciences.

 

ETA: I think the whole concept of one-science-per-year is stupid. In my home country, all three sciences are taught concurrently. Bio starting in 5th, physics in 6th, chem in 7th, and all three are studied every year throughout high school, until, I think, in the last two years students select one to focus on.

 

That would be ideal. They're so inter-related and making those connections every year would be amazing for students. Plus, they could advance in each of the sciences as the math skills got deeper as well.

[katilac]

 

ETA: I think the whole concept of one-science-per-year is stupid. In my home country, all three sciences are taught concurrently. Bio starting in 5th, physics in 6th, chem in 7th, and all three are studied every year throughout high school, until, I think, in the last two years students select one to focus on.

 

I really wanted to do it this way, but lacked the science & math mojo to pull it off without an actual integrated science curriculum. 

 

I did do it for a year in middle school, because I was able to obtain an integrated science text from the UK to follow. No teacher guide, but my knowledge and google did the trick for this level. 

 

So you did bio in 5th, bio & physics in 6th, bio & physics & chem in 7th - 10th?

[clementine]

We did biology in 9th, physics in 10th, chemistry in 11th, and nutrition DE in 12th.  Class schedules dictated the order, not difficulty.  

[regentrude]

So you did bio in 5th, bio & physics in 6th, bio & physics & chem in 7th - 10th?

 

No. 

As an accidental homeschooler who never went to school in this country and had to learn everything about high school and college applications (I didn't know what an ACT was !), I was trying to stay close to what admissions officials expect to see because it's what know from typical high schools. 

 

If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, and if I planned on homeschooling (as opposed to being thrown in by necessity midway through my kids' schooling),I would have more confidence to do something out of the box.

[Tess in the Burbs]

both my kids are ahead in math, so science is what they want.   my boy:  Environmental(9th), Biology(10th), Chemistry(11th) AND Geology(11th), ??  for 12th   My girl: Biology (9th), Chemistry(10th) AND Astronomy (10th), Physics(11th), some advanced Physics(12th)

 

 

[katilac]

No. 

As an accidental homeschooler who never went to school in this country and had to learn everything about high school and college applications (I didn't know what an ACT was !), I was trying to stay close to what admissions officials expect to see because it's what know from typical high schools. 

 

If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, and if I planned on homeschooling (as opposed to being thrown in by necessity midway through my kids' schooling),I would have more confidence to do something out of the box.

 

I'm sorry, I meant, is that how your school did it when you were a student? I wasn't completely clear on how you were stating it. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by katilac

[eternalsummer]

The reason schools usually do biology first is the lagging math progression; because they don't teach algebra until 9th grade, most students lack the math skills to take physics or chemistry in 9th grade.

From a philosophical point of view, physics first makes more sense since this is the most basic of sciences.

 

ETA: I think the whole concept of one-science-per-year is stupid. In my home country, all three sciences are taught concurrently. Bio starting in 5th, physics in 6th, chem in 7th, and all three are studied every year throughout high school, until, I think, in the last two years students select one to focus on.

 

The accel track in the suburban US high school I went to (a bland but good school) was 8th - physical science (concurrent with algebra 1, so not HS physics really); 9th - Honors Bio, 10th - Honors Chem, 11th/12th, two years of either IB Bio or IB Chem.  People with extra time in their schedules took AP Physics senior year.

 

I really liked having 3 years of Bio in HS, and two years of IB Bio.  We had a whole year of it before we even got to organisms.  

[regentrude]

I'm sorry, I meant, is that how your school did it when you were a student? I wasn't completely clear on how you were stating it. 

 

That's almost exactly how it was when I went to school, except that we didn't get to focus on one science and drop the others in 11th/12th grades as they do now. We started bio in 5th grade, added physics in 6th, chemistry in 7th, and took all three every year through high school.

 

The school schedule is set up very differently; you don't have the subject daily for five days a week and can take only 7 subjects.

For example, in my home state, 9th grade has every week:

4x German, 3x English, 3x 2nd foreign language, 4x math, 2x each bio, chem, physics, history, geography, ethics... and then there's a bunch more 1-2 hour subjects, for a total of 34 periods, each of which is 45 minutes long. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by regentrude

[daijobu]

My dd took:

 

9th: ap chem

10th: ap bio

11th: ap physics

12th: probably more physics

 

It worked out well for her because chem was a prereq for ap bio, so she could go straight to that.  And she's taking calculus now, concurrent with physics.  

 

 

[Serenade]

So if your student has the math skills, there is no need to delay something like physics?  My younger son will be starting on Saxon Advanced Math this semester, and he's also taking Apologia Physical Science, as will have completed this physical science course as well.  I've been thinking of starting him on physics next year, instead of Biology, because it is likely that he will want to take an advanced physics class.  My older student is currently doing Derek Owens Physics, and some of the things in that course have been covered in Saxon Algebra 2, so I'm thinking it would be best if my younger son go ahead and do physics without having a year or two time lapse since it seems like Saxon has probably prepared him well for physics.  He is a diligent worker, if that makes a difference.  I just look at him and think he's too young for physics, lol.  But that is probably because I am not a mathy sort of person myself.

[regentrude]

So if your student has the math skills, there is no need to delay something like physics?

No, none whatsoever.

Both my kids did an algebra/trig based college physics class as their first high school science.

 

It is sad that there is the misconception of physics being particularly difficult. If a student has solid math skills and a good physics teacher, there is nothing about physics that requires it to be postponed until the upper grades.

[scoutingmom]

 

 

ETA: I think the whole concept of one-science-per-year is stupid. In my home country, all three sciences are taught concurrently. Bio starting in 5th, physics in 6th, chem in 7th, and all three are studied every year throughout high school, until, I think, in the last two years students select one to focus on.

Honestly that was how it was in my province when I was in high school. (Might still be).... well sort-of. There was grade 10, 11, 12 biology... grade 10, 11, 12 chemistry... grade 10, 11, 12 Physics. You could pick and choose (you needed some science credits but not many). I wanted to become an engineer so I had chemistry and physics. And I was in I.B. which required us (at ky school) to take Biology.... so I had them all.

 

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