News: At least 3 dead after Amtrak train derails from bridge onto I5 near Olympia

[Arcadia]

(ETA: number of casualties varies by news sources. The most consistent I can find is 3 people died.)

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/train-derails-from-bridge-onto-interstate-5-near-olympia/

 

“The Associated Press, citing an unnamed U.S. official, reported that at least six people were killed in the crash. Gov. Jay Inslee has called a state of emergency in response to the derailment.

...

A total of 77 people were sent to hospitals in Pierce and Thurston counties, according to CHI Franciscan Health, which operates numerous hospitals in Western Washington. Four of the injured are “level red†patients, with critical injuries.

 

The injured are being taken to St. Joseph Medical Center in Tacoma, St. Claire Hospital in Lakewood, St. Anthony Hospital in Gig Harbor and Tacoma General Hospital and Providence St. Peter Hospital in Olympia.

 

There were 78 passengers and five crew members on the train when it derailed, according to Amtrak.

 

The southbound lanes of Interstate 5 were completely blocked by the train.“

 

ETA:

“Preliminary information from the train's event data recorder showed that the train was traveling 80 mph in a 30 mph zone when it derailed, the US National Transportation Safety Board member Bella Dinh-Zarr said at a press conference Monday night.

 

An event data recorder, like an airplane's so-called black box, documents a vehicle's movements over a period of time.

 

Dinh-Zarr said that it was "too early to tell" why the train was going so quickly and that the NTSB did not yet know what caused the train to derail.

...

Several of the train cars flipped onto the Interstate 5 highway. At least three people have died, 10 have severe injuries, and at least 50 more received some form of medical treatment, according to the Associated Press.â€

http://www.businessinsider.com/amtrak-train-washington-was-travelling-50-mph-above-speed-limit-when-it-crashed-2017-12

Edited December 19, 2017 by Arcadia in CA

[Laurie]

I've been watching the local news coverage all morning.  

Here's a phone interview with an Eagle Scout who was one of the first to provide aid to the victims: http://www.king5.com/video/news/local/eagle-scout-recalls-how-he-ran-to-the-scene-to-help-people-get-out/281-2841194

 

 

 

 

[3 ladybugs]

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. I have family out there but most of them fear mass transit like the plague. I pray for the families of the victims. I pray for the injured. I pray that this whole thing doesn't set mass transit back 50 years in the northwest. 

 

At least it isn't sounding like foul play at this point. Still very sad. 

[nixpix5]

This is even sadder because the Lakewood Mayor didn't want this to be pushed through before safety measures were put into place as he worried about deaths. He was more concerned about people getting hit by speeding trains through the town, but it is still gut wrenching to read his words now after the fact.

http://komonews.com/news/local/lakewood-mayor-predicts-deadly-accidents-from-high-speed-train-service

[gaillardia]

:crying: The underpasses were put into place in some areas in the PNW to save wildlife, why couldn't they have done the same with the rail?

[Liz CA]

How horrible. I keep wondering why Amtrak has such a dismal safety record compared to all the trains that are in operation in other countries?

[gardenmom5]

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. I have family out there but most of them fear mass transit like the plague. I pray for the families of the victims. I pray for the injured. I pray that this whole thing doesn't set mass transit back 50 years in the northwest. 

 

At least it isn't sounding like foul play at this point. Still very sad. 

 

a passenger reported it felt like they hit something.

 

in april - anarchists bragged about sabotaging tracks outside olympia (dupont is about 10 minutes drive time north of olympia as it goes through the nisqually wildlife refuge/salt water marshes).

there is video on twitter taken just last week - leos clearing tracks from anarchists outside olympia.

you can bet leos will be looking at them.

they were after freight trains - and this overpass is generally a freight train overpass.   I've driven under it many times - when there were freight trains on it.

there is an access road that is very close to this overpass.

[gardenmom5]

:crying: The underpasses were put into place in some areas in the PNW to save wildlife, why couldn't they have done the same with the rail?

 

?huh?   this is on the southbound approach to the nisqually delta.  there are lots of places for animals to get from one side of the freeway to another by going underneath it.

and this overpass goes over I5 and is strictly for trains.  they didn't hit an animal.

or perhaps I'm not understanding you.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:crying: The underpasses were put into place in some areas in the PNW to save wildlife, why couldn't they have done the same with the rail?

Did you know the area of the accident? The train was on an overpass. It had zero to do with wildlife. It’s also a wetland. Underpasses are not generally built in wetlands.

[gaillardia]

No, I'm sorry, what I'm talking about is areas of interstate highway travel do have underpasses for the wildlife...why were there not other precautions taken to build a safer bridge, more fail proof? The PNW is obviously a hotbed for environmentalists. I'm very surprised something like this went through. 

 

So, in addition to it just being an unsafe idea because of the high rates of speed through populated areas, it is in a wetland area?

No, I'm not familiar at all with the area. My comment was misunderstood. 

[umsami]

I was so shocked and saddened to see this.

 

Had I lived there, this is totally something I would have wanted to use....and coming from a train buff family, I'd have wanted to have been on the inaugural run.

 

Praying for all of those hurt and killed in the crash, their loved ones, and the first responders.  

[Laurie]

The tracks being blocked were not ones passenger trains use, it was aimed solely at blocking transport of fracking products.

 

 

 

During the coverage on King 5 news, they showed the speed limit signs going into the curve where today's accident happened.  There were two speed limits posted, 30 mph for freight trains and 30 mph for passenger trains.  Maybe both freight and passenger trains do use these tracks? 

[gardenmom5]

The tracks being blocked were not ones passenger trains use, it was aimed solely at blocking transport of fracking products.

 

I am confused by the connections you seem to be making.

 

this is *freight* crossing.  I've never seen a passenger train on it before - it was always freight trains. 

 

they *changed* the route the passenger train takes.

[Jean in Newcastle]

No, I'm sorry, what I'm talking about is areas of interstate highway travel do have underpasses for the wildlife...why were there not other precautions taken to build a safer bridge, more fail proof? The PNW is obviously a hotbed for environmentalists. I'm very surprised something like this went through. 

 

So, in addition to it just being an unsafe idea because of the high rates of speed through populated areas, it is in a wetland area?

No, I'm not familiar at all with the area. My comment was misunderstood. 

 

Has the cause of the accident been determined?  So far the only suggestion I've seen for a cause is that the train might have been going too fast for the curve.  I'm confused why you keep trying to bring environmentalism into it.  The whole area along there is a wetland.  There is protected wetlands that haven't been harmed in any way.  The word "wetland" is descriptive and doesn't mean that it is synonymous with the protected areas that are set apart for wildlife.  But there are engineering considerations depending on soil and amount of water etc. on what kind of structures to build. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

During the coverage on King 5 news, they showed the speed limit signs going into the curve where today's accident happened.  There were two speed limits posted, 30 mph for freight trains and 30 mph for passenger trains.  Maybe both freight and passenger trains do use these tracks? 

 

This was the inaugural run for the passenger train..

[gardenmom5]

"A U.S. official who was briefed on the investigation told The Associated Press preliminary signs indicate the Amtrak train may have struck something before going off the tracks. An Amtrak train also derailed in nearby Steilacoom in July."

http://q13fox.com/2017/12/18/train-derails-above-i-5-sb-lanes-shut-down-near-dupont/

 

it would mesh with at least one early passenger account I heard on local coverage this morning that it felt like they hit something.

[gaillardia]

Has the cause of the accident been determined?  So far the only suggestion I've seen for a cause is that the train might have been going too fast for the curve.  I'm confused why you keep trying to bring environmentalism into it.  The whole area along there is a wetland.  There is protected wetlands that haven't been harmed in any way.  The word "wetland" is descriptive and doesn't mean that it is synonymous with the protected areas that are set apart for wildlife.  But there are engineering considerations depending on soil and amount of water etc. on what kind of structures to build. 

I don't know if the cause was determined. 

Maybe you are taking my comments too personally and out of context, which brings me to my next point: Why are you so confused and why does what I say matter to you? Why do you think I am trying to "bring environmentalism" into it? 

I'm starting to wonder why I am trying to clarify what I'm saying because we are not seeing eye to eye on this. 

You seem offended.

 

First, I wondered why a railway was going through a wetland (environment), as well as a highway going through wetland (environment). You say the wetlands are protected and haven't been harmed in any way, that's great. Did I know that? No. Do I live there? No. Could you have been a little more understanding or help me understand in your response?

Second, I wondered why with all the improvements I had heard about,  as far as protecting wildlife near interstates with the addition of underpasses for the wildlife (environment), why the same kind of consideration wasn't taken with railways near interstates. Did I say put underpasses in a swamp? No. 

[TravelingChris]

Unfortunately there is s lot of bad reporting going on now. Saw it in major media's reports about our recent election like proposing solutions to the Judge Roy Moore issue that were not available here.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[KungFuPanda]

I don't know if the cause was determined.

Maybe you are taking my comments too personally and out of context, which brings me to my next point: Why are you so confused and why does what I say matter to you? Why do you think I am trying to "bring environmentalism" into it?

I'm starting to wonder why I am trying to clarify what I'm saying because we are not seeing eye to eye on this.

You seem offended.

 

First, I wondered why a railway was going through a wetland (environment), as well as a highway going through wetland (environment). You say the wetlands are protected and haven't been harmed in any way, that's great. Did I know that? No. Do I live there? No. Could you have been a little more understanding or help me understand in your response?

Second, I wondered why with all the improvements I had heard about, as far as protecting wildlife near interstates with the addition of underpasses for the wildlife (environment), why the same kind of consideration wasn't taken with railways near interstates. Did I say put underpasses in a swamp? No.

I’ve read every post and I’m still confused about your animal underpass connection. Are you suggesting that passing a train under the highway would be safer for train travel???

[vonfirmath]

this is *freight* crossing.  I've never seen a passenger train on it before - it was always freight trains. 

 

they *changed* the route the passenger train takes.

 

This was the first run with passenger trains on this route.  They had spent a lot of money recently to change the route and Dec 18 (today) was the first day they were running the new route with passenger trains. And this was the first train of the day.

[mellifera33]

We’ve been listening to the news all day. What a tragedy. :(

 

Traffic will be a mess for the next few days. There really aren’t many options to get through that area, with the sound on one side and the base and a big mountain on the other. I heard a rumor that there was going to be a route opened through JBLM but I don’t know if that happened.

 

In response to the pp who asked why there are highways and railroads going through wetlands: due to the geography of the area in question, there would be no way to have a north-south highway corridor on the western side of the state without crossing the many rivers/creeks that flow down from the cascade mountains. The derailment took place near a nature preserve which is located at the delta of one of the major rivers in the area.

[Lanny]

The N.T.S.B. says the train was going 80 M.P.H. in a 30 M.P.H. zone...  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/19/amtrak-train-was-traveling-at-80-mph-in-30-mph-zone-ntsb-says.html

[MarkT]

The N.T.S.B. says the train was going 80 M.P.H. in a 30 M.P.H. zone...  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/12/19/amtrak-train-was-traveling-at-80-mph-in-30-mph-zone-ntsb-says.html

I heard that it did not have Positive Train Control which is almost criminal on a newly upgraded line.

 

https://www.up.com/media/media_kit/ptc/about-ptc/

 

updated:

"

Crew members haven’t been interviewed yet, Ms. Dinh-Zarr said, and the board hadn't determined whether a system that can prevent accidents—called Positive Train Control—was installed in the section of the track in question.

An Amtrak representative had said earlier Monday the system wasn’t activated.

"

[EMS83]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  to all affected and bereaved.  :(

[TravelingChris]

Earlier this fall, I watched a Frontline about trains and accidents and while improvements have been made, you actually have to use them.  A big problem with the warning systems and electronic automatic controls is that they don't work on all tracks (since our tracks are an amalgamation of freight owned and maintained by many companies and local and national passenger).  Another issue is that there are competing systems and no national standard.  So there could be a system on that track that is for freight but not Amtrak.  

 

Prayers and  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[mellifera33]

The news this morning is almost unbelievable. The only thing I can think of is that with it being the inaugural run, there were some VIPs in the locomotive, distracting the engineer. (Or the conductor? I get those guys mixed up.) They have to have been doing trial runs and become familiar with the route before this--I can't imagine that the speed limit change was a surprise. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by mellifera33

[Arcadia]

Names of two of the victims are out :(

 

“Two devoted rail enthusiasts were among the three people killed in the Amtrak derailment outside Tacoma, Washington, on Monday.

 

Jim Hamre and Zack Willhoite, both "passionate advocates for passenger railroad," died in the derailment, said Jim Mathews, president of the Rail Passengers Association, an organization that aims to improve and expand rail transit. Hamre was a board member for the association and Wilhoite was a member, the group said in a statement.

...

Willhoite was an IT customer service support specialist with Pierce Transit, the public transportation agency in Pierce County, which encompasses Tacoma. He had been employed there since 2008, the agency said in a statement.†https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amtrak-derailment-local-transit-employee-among-those-killed-n831106

 

ETA:

“Two of the dead were identified as train buffs and members of the rail advocacy group All Aboard Washington and were excited to be on board for the inaugural run: Jim Hamre, a retired civil engineer with the state Transportation Department, and Zack Willhoite, a customer service employee at a local transit agency.†http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-washington-amtrak-derailment-20171219-story.html

Edited December 20, 2017 by Arcadia