Older teens and chores

[fairfarmhand]

By the way, my mil was a pain to my dh about dishes and keeping his stuff picked up out of the family areas and I am forever thankful that she did. He’s not a slob and he doesn’t believe he’s entitled to leave a mess wherever he goes.

 

For my dd, the reason I did timeline on certain chores ( please pick up you things out of the living room before bed) was because I never know when she’ll be home. So I can stare at her crap all day and be resentful or she can do it before bed. When I explained my reasoning she got it.

 

So Scarlett if you want to come home to a tidy kitchen he’d better beat you home and pick up his crap or face the consequences.

 

 

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[cave canem]

Also meant to say that

Leaving a food mess behind is not the same as choosing when to do a chore.  

Cleaning the toilet, vacuuming the car, dusting the banister are maintenance tasks that can be done at a variable time, but even then I wouldn't say at any time whatsover.

If I spill a cup of coffee on the floor or spread a big craft project on the kitchen counter I don't just take care of whenever.  I made a mess, and it needs attention so that other people can enjoy and use the space. 

I had another sign before:  Leave the place better than you found it.

 

[JudoMom]

But it is a big deal to me. Especially when I reminded him before I left the house. I don't want to have to come home and either do it myself if he isn't home or to tell him AGAIN to put his dishes in the dishwasher.

 

I get that.  I have a couple that are walking explosions.  I hate visual clutter.  

 

But the fact is they're 17 & 16 year old boys and they just don't see the bigger picture.  So part of the job is reminding them and telling them to do it.  I'm just encouraging you to not take it personally and try not the get angry about it.  That's what I meant by not a big deal.  It's not worth the energy to get angry.  

[KungFuPanda]

I don’t think I can manage a housekeeping shift before high school starts in the morning. It’s just too early and when you’re not a morning person your brain really isn’t fully functional until you’ve been awake for a few hours. I also think the bedding of teenaged boys can benefit from some airing out during the day.

 

I’d be satisfied if they closed their doors, used paper plates at breakfast, and cleaned the bathroom/kitchen after school. Since they can’t manage to close the shower curtain, I’d get a cloth liner and put them in charge of washing it weekly.

 

Teen boys can be super motivated by food. It might work to announce that you are starting dinner and they’re welcome to join you for eating it when XY and Z is accomplished. Some kids respond better to a set chore time than a clean-as-you-go mindset. Not everyone has the continuous cleaning gene, so finding a time of day (not o’dark thirty in the morning) might be the answer.

 

Insisting these things get done is one thing. Insisting they get done at the exact time you prefer in the exact way you do it is over the top. Your mother’s response tells me where this rigidity came from and those methods do not work for every kid.

[Scarlett]

I don’t think I can manage a housekeeping shift before high school starts in the morning. It’s just too early and when you’re not a morning person your brain really isn’t fully functional until you’ve been awake for a few hours. I also think the bedding of teenaged boys can benefit from some airing out during the day.

 

I’d be satisfied if they closed their doors, used paper plates at breakfast, and cleaned the bathroom/kitchen after school. Since they can’t manage to close the shower curtain, I’d get a cloth liner and put them in charge of washing it weekly.

 

Teen boys can be super motivated by food. It might work to announce that you are starting dinner and they’re welcome to join you for eating it when XY and Z is accomplished. Some kids respond better to a set chore time than a clean-as-you-go mindset. Not everyone has the continuous cleaning gene, so finding a time of day (not o’dark thirty in the morning) might be the answer.

 

Insisting these things get done is one thing. Insisting they get done at the exact time you prefer in the exact way you do it is over the top. Your mother’s response tells me where this rigidity came from and those methods do not work for every kid.

How long do you think is reasonable for ones dirty dishes to be allowed to sit on the table? You, nor my son will convince me it is unreasonable to put his plate and cup in the dishwasher before he leaves for school. Other wise, if I am home I have to do it myself or look at it until noon when he still won't move it as experience has shown me again and again.

 

If I bought paper plates I would just have a paper plate sitting in my table all day until I reminded him AGAIN to remove it.

 

Seriously do you and your kids leave your dirty dishes out on the table for hours?

 

And I had to LOL about getting my 'rigidity' from my mom. Um no. We had a very messy house and she was very relaxed/chaotic about that kind of thing. Oh she had her 'things'....like no one got in her beds dirty....but overall,she was not rigid. I could not stand our messy house growing up and I cannot stand it now.

[Scarlett]

I don’t think I can manage a housekeeping shift before high school starts in the morning. It’s just too early and when you’re not a morning person your brain really isn’t fully functional until you’ve been awake for a few hours. I also think the bedding of teenaged boys can benefit from some airing out during the day.

 

I’d be satisfied if they closed their doors, used paper plates at breakfast, and cleaned the bathroom/kitchen after school. Since they can’t manage to close the shower curtain, I’d get a cloth liner and put them in charge of washing it weekly.

 

Teen boys can be super motivated by food. It might work to announce that you are starting dinner and they’re welcome to join you for eating it when XY and Z is accomplished. Some kids respond better to a set chore time than a clean-as-you-go mindset. Not everyone has the continuous cleaning gene, so finding a time of day (not o’dark thirty in the morning) might be the answer.

 

Insisting these things get done is one thing. Insisting they get done at the exact time you prefer in the exact way you do it is over the top. Your mother’s response tells me where this rigidity came from and those methods do not work for every kid.

 

And btw, putting a plate and cup in the dishwasher is FAR from a house keeping shift. Good grief.

[Sandwalker]

My mom told me to remove the shower curtain, all washcloths and not allow them to use the dishes at all. And if they don't make their beds stuff all their covers under their bed. :)

I would take away washcloth privileges, because of guests using that bathroom too.

 

The mornings were a nightmare during my (now wonderful adult) dd's teen years. I never solved this issue tbh, though she was less surly when eating healthier and taking a multivitamin.

 

It's a rough time for you guys now; the kids will love you in a couple of years, and they'll appreciate your sense of order in a topsy turvy world.

[eternalsummer]

I'd not worry as much about when they do what chore or how they do it specifically as that it gets done regularly.

 

However, most of these things aren't chores.  Putting your dirty dishes in the sink, or rinsing them and putting them in the dishwasher after you eat, is not a chore.  Doing the dishes, all of them -that is a chore, and I can see wanting to do it when it's convenient in your schedule, because it takes half an hour or so.  But just your dish?  Takes 30 seconds.

 

The same is true of washcloths and shower curtains and picking up your shoes when you take them off at the front door - those are not chores.  Vacuuming the house is a chore.  Taking out the trash is not a chore - it is just something done as soon as the trash can is full.  It takes 2 minutes.

[Scarlett]

Also meant to say that

Leaving a food mess behind is not the same as choosing when to do a chore.

Cleaning the toilet, vacuuming the car, dusting the banister are maintenance tasks that can be done at a variable time, but even then I wouldn't say at any time whatsover.

If I spill a cup of coffee on the floor or spread a big craft project on the kitchen counter I don't just take care of whenever. I made a mess, and it needs attention so that other people can enjoy and use the space.

I had another sign before: Leave the place better than you found it.

Yes, I agree. I don't dictate when they clean their rooms, or their bathroom or do their laundry.

 

There are a few basic things that make a home look tidy even if it is not spotlessly clean. Keep trash out. Beds made. Dirty clothes in hamper. Dirty dishes out of site. Shower curtain shut and sink wipe down and hand towel hung up. Don't leave a disgusting looking toilet even if you don't have time to clean the whole bathroom. If you ( for whatever inexplicable reason) pee on the floor, clean it up. If your chore is to take out the trash don't let it over flow. And don't miss trash day.

 

Seriously aren't these basic housekeeping standards?

[eternalsummer]

All of that except bed making (we don't make our beds except on really special occasions) sounds reasonable to me.  Everything except the beds has a health/smell situation to me, and is dirty instead of messy (dirty dishes on the table, mildewing shower curtain, pee on the floor, overflowing trash, etc.)

[Scarlett]

I'm one who doesn't think it's a big deal for it to be done later. If it's just a plate and cup, I don't see why that would prevent anyone else from doing anything else in the kitchen. It just comes across as rather controlling to me to not only have daily chores but for you to decide when those chores must be done. I've never had issues with any roommate doing their cleaning on their own time. I would have had to find a new one if they always insisted I put away my dishes when they deemed it necessary.

One plate and cup wouldn't be a problem. But it is nver just one because he never gets around to putting his stuff in the dishwasher. And if everyone does that within hours there is a counter full of dirty dishes and then what! Does one person wash them? Do you call everyone in and say pick out what you used and wash it? How ridiculous.....and so easily solved by taking 30 seconds to put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher.

[Scarlett]

I never understand the conclusions drawn from the "relation-trumps-all" viewpoint. What basic behavior should we excuse able-bodied housemates from out of fear of being disowned in five years? I don't think I should function as a domestic servant in order to be acknowledged as a mother.

 

If it is reasonable to put away things, it is reasonable to do it within a given time frame. This seems to be the way the world works in general. I put a sign up in our kitchen: Do it now. I read it aloud if someone starts a phone fest with a mess still strewn around. What is the real hardship in finishing one thing before starting another?

 

I would not keep trying to persuade him how reasonable you are. Just lay out the expectation and come up with a consequence. Does your son get to drive his car to school no matter what? My son isn't supposed to leave for school until the dishes are done. We drive him, but I don't think his having access to a car would change the chore expectation.

 

For a while each family member here had one assigned plate, mug, bowl, spoon, fork, knife. Only one sharp knife was left in the kitchen. Any dirty dishes left around were disappeared to the basement and had to be fetched by the owner to wash and reuse. Everyone's habits improved pronto.

 

I wouldn't die on a made bed hill, but I do think there are limits to acceptable room mess.

 

edited to clean up an incoherent sentence.

I did not keep arguing . I told him if he is truly incapable of putting his plate and cup in the dishwasher than he may not use my dishes. He stomped off to his room. Where I let him stew in his own juices.

[Scarlett]

I'd not worry as much about when they do what chore or how they do it specifically as that it gets done regularly.

 

However, most of these things aren't chores. Putting your dirty dishes in the sink, or rinsing them and putting them in the dishwasher after you eat, is not a chore. Doing the dishes, all of them -that is a chore, and I can see wanting to do it when it's convenient in your schedule, because it takes half an hour or so. But just your dish? Takes 30 seconds.

 

The same is true of washcloths and shower curtains and picking up your shoes when you take them off at the front door - those are not chores. Vacuuming the house is a chore. Taking out the trash is not a chore - it is just something done as soon as the trash can is full. It takes 2 minutes.

Thank you. Good point that these things are NOT chores. I guess I need a different word. Personal responsibility for your own mess? Edited December 1, 2017 by Scarlett

[cave canem]

Thank you. Good point that these things are chores. I guess I need a different word. Personal responsibility for your own mess?

You could use the framework of every task's having a beginning, middle and end.  Just don't forget to finish the task.  Do the end.

 

going the bathroom:  begininng = shutting the door, pulling down clothing;  middle = excreting;  end = pulling up clothing, flushing, cleaning up any mess, washing hands.  When the task is done, everything is as when he started.

 

For eating breakfast, beginning = getting out/prepping food; middle = eating;  end = putting away food, dishes, wiping crumbs/sticky from counter.   When the task is *done*, everything is as when he started.

[Scarlett]

We used quilts and duvet covers, so no top sheet, just pull up the duvet and it looks great, easy washing. :D

So....do you wash your quilt weekly?

[Scarlett]

You could use the framework of every task's having a beginning, middle and end. Just don't forget to finish the task. Do the end.

 

going the bathroom: begininng = shutting the door, pulling down clothing; middle = excreting; end = pulling up clothing, flushing, cleaning up any mess, washing hands. When the task is done, everything is as when he started.

 

For eating breakfast, beginning = getting out/prepping food; middle = eating; end = putting away food, dishes, wiping crumbs/sticky from counter. When the task is *done*, everything is as when he started.

I left out important word....NOT chores.

[Scarlett]

My mom just send me a link to a local guy looking for a room mate. $250 a month. He says ' neat and clean home'

 

 

LOL

[KungFuPanda]

And btw, putting a plate and cup in the dishwasher is FAR from a house keeping shift. Good grief.

No, no, I’m with you on the dishes placed into an empty dishwasher. That counts as zero effort. Cleaning bedrooms and bathrooms in the morning would be too much.

[Scarlett]

No, no, I’m with you on the dishes placed into an empty dishwasher. That counts as zero effort. Cleaning bedrooms and bathrooms in the morning would be too much.

I am not asking for bathrooms and bedrooms to be cleaned.

 

Make your bed (30 seconds the way ds does it)

Remove your wet washcloth (.5 seconds as he leaves the bathroom.)

Who ever is last in bathroom close shower curtain (3 seconds)

And wipe the water off edge of sink and hang fresh towel (30 seconds)

[bzymom]

I feel your pain!

 

What I implemented last month after my frustration reached it's peak:

 

I expect each of them to clean up after themselves (do your dishes, put away what you take out) in common areas.  The bedrooms and their bathrooms are not going to be to my standards CLEARLY  :ack2:  :ack2:  but piles of dirty laundry and crap all over their rooms and dirty bathrooms are beyond "what mom wants".  As far as I am concerned, it is a life skill/health & wellbeing issue.  

 

They now can keep their rooms clean "enough", or I assume they wish to hire me.  :biggrinjester:    At my discretion, I will do laundry, clean crap up, clean up a bathroom.  And they receive a bill via Venmo.

 

How much?  I am not a licensed contractor, so I don't give estimates.  Charges vary based upon filth, my mood, the weather and perhaps how many Fritos are in the pantry. Nobody knows what the charge is until I send it.  

 

And they have to pay it.  No complaining, no negotiation.  It is a bill, and it is due upon receipt.

 

I am calling it my cha-ching holiday house tour.

[Scarlett]

I feel your pain!

 

What I implemented last month after my frustration reached it's peak:

 

I expect each of them to clean up after themselves (do your dishes, put away what you take out) in common areas. The bedrooms and their bathrooms are not going to be to my standards CLEARLY :ack2: :ack2: but piles of dirty laundry and crap all over their rooms and dirty bathrooms are beyond "what mom wants". As far as I am concerned, it is a life skill/health & wellbeing issue.

 

They now can keep their rooms clean "enough", or I assume they wish to hire me. :biggrinjester: At my discretion, I will do laundry, clean crap up, clean up a bathroom. And they receive a bill via Venmo.

 

How much? I am not a licensed contractor, so I don't give estimates. Charges vary based upon filth, my mood, the weather and perhaps how many Fritos are in the pantry. Nobody knows what the charge is until I send it.

 

And they have to pay it. No complaining, no negotiation. It is a bill, and it is due upon receipt.

 

I am calling it my cha-ching holiday house tour.

I like the way you think.

[KungFuPanda]

I am not asking for bathrooms and bedrooms to be cleaned.

 

Make your bed (30 seconds the way ds does it)

Remove your wet washcloth (.5 seconds as he leaves the bathroom.)

Who ever is last in bathroom close shower curtain (3 seconds)

And wipe the water off edge of sink and hang fresh towel (30 seconds)

Sounds like bathroom cleaning to me even if It’s quick. The washcloth thing is the very definition of sweating the small stuff.

 

These are older kids who won’t be around very much longer. Soon that bathroom will remain perfect and you might miss the activity and evidence of having kids around? I can’t tell if you’re just venting today’s frustration of living with teenagers and it doesn’t bug you most of the time OR if you feel deeply disrespected and offended by an open shower curtain. Do you have guests over daily? Do they accomplish the weekly cleanup and just drop the ball on the morning once over? Is a cup on a table really THAT upsetting? Are their rooms toxic dumps or do they just have unmade beds and a few things strewn about?

[Scarlett]

Sounds like bathroom cleaning to me even if It’s quick. The washcloth thing is the very definition of sweating the small stuff.

 

These are older kids who won’t be around very much longer. Soon that bathroom will remain perfect and you might miss the activity and evidence of having kids around? I can’t tell if you’re just venting today’s frustration of living with teenagers and it doesn’t bug you most of the time OR if you feel deeply disrespected and offended by an open shower curtain. Do you have guests over daily? Do they accomplish the weekly cleanup and just drop the ball on the morning once over? Is a cup on a table really THAT upsetting? Are their rooms toxic dumps or do they just have unmade beds and a few things strewn about?

No, no it is NOT cleaning a bathroom. The wash cloth 'thing' turns into 10 piled in there by the end of the week. Would that be a problem for you then? How many would it take before you insisted they removed their used washcloth?

 

And they do accomplish NOTHING without being reminded 50 times.

[Scarlett]

Honestly, that doesn't sound like bathroom cleaning to me. It sounds like common sense.

 

At minimum, it really should NOT be a big deal for ANYONE to hang a washcloth so it dries without getting moldy and gross. And the same goes for closing the shower curtain. I mean really, step out of the shower, turn around, close the curtain. It's like closing the front door as you walk out it. And wiping up water on the sink after you have used the sink......my 5 yr old does it. It's like dry your hands, run the towel on the counter.

 

My 5yr old's chore in our new chore charts is to pick up our bathroom floor. In literally 3 minutes, he can have everything picked up and straightened out on the floor (dirty laundry put away, floor mats straightened, bath toys put away, kids step stool put where it goes, and any trash on the floor in the trash can.) PLUS, have any hair items on the counter put in their container in the cabinet, tooth brushes that weren't properly put away...put away, shower curtain closed, and any extra cups put in the sink. Now, our bathroom is small, but yes, his chore does include picking up after others who aren't properly picking up after themselves. And...he's 5. And can do it in 3 minutes. Mostly because everyone does a good job of picking up after themselves. Dirty laundry always goes in the hamper after it's removed, washcloths hung up, etc.

 

If my 5yr old can do ALL of that in 3 minutes, as his dedicated chore.........no, hanging a wash cloth, closing a shower curtain, and wiping up water splashed on the counter when washing hands/face/etc.....is now, IMO, cleaning the bathroom.

And oddly at age 4 ds did this stuff. He could make a bed better than most adults.

 

His brain has turned to mush. Or something.

[Sandwalker]

So....do you wash your quilt weekly?

The quilts (big puffy type) are buttoned into the duvet covers, and the covers are washed with the sheets weekly. The covers are cotton, just like the sheet material. Bonus is they came with pillow shams that make the beds look nice.

[lllll]

No, no it is NOT cleaning a bathroom. The wash cloth 'thing' turns into 10 piled in there by the end of the week. Would that be a problem for you then? How many would it take before you insisted they removed their used washcloth?

 

And they do accomplish NOTHING without being reminded 50 times.

 

Honestly, it sounds like they've got YOU trained, Scarlett.  

 

At the very least, I might insist we all sit down and have a serious discussion about attitudes (vs chores).  

 

Fwiw, when I saw my oldest kids (teens) exhibiting the attitudes you're seeing, I got furious (dc didn't know that), and turned over the ENTIRE running of the house to all 5 kids.  I didn't do it in anger.  I just thought through the whole thing and came up with a rough plan and sat all 5 down and we hashed it out together.  They survived and I have good relationships with all of them now, as adults.

[Sandwalker]

And oddly at age 4 ds did this stuff. He could make a bed better than most adults.

 

His brain has turned to mush. Or something.

Yes of course! Hormone mush, they can't think right at that age.

[Scarlett]

Honestly, it sounds like they've got YOU trained, Scarlett.

 

At the very least, I might insist we all sit down and have a serious discussion about attitudes (vs chores).

 

Fwiw, when I saw my oldest kids (teens) exhibiting the attitudes you're seeing, I got furious (dc didn't know that), and turned over the ENTIRE running of the house to all 5 kids. I didn't do it in anger. I just thought through the whole thing and came up with a rough plan and sat all 5 down and we hashed it out together. They survived and I have good relationships with all of them now, as adults.

Well, it it makes you feel any better I came home and have not left my room. I am drinking wine and eating chips and I did not cook dinner. Dss16 finally knocked on the door and asked if I was cooking. I think not I said. He said ok I will make some eggs.

 

Dh is home now. I haven't spoken to him.

[fairfarmhand]

Wait. You guys who think washcloth stuff is no big deal??? You let your kids leave soggy wet washcloths in the bathtub all week? Just sitting there? Because that’s what I had in mind. I have 4 kids. 4 kids time 7 days is 28 showers. Somehow a blob of 30 washcloths in the bottom of the shower getting smelly and slimy and gross is supposed to make it to the laundry room and I don’t want o have o mess with that!

 

Cleaning a bathroom involved spraying down the sink with disinfectant, scrubbing the tub, swabbing and wiping the toilet and mopping.

 

A 10 second wipe of the sink from water splatters closing the curtain because mine gets mold when open and hanging a washcloth to dry is not cleaning a bathroom .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Scarlett]

Wait. You guys who think washcloth stuff is no big deal??? You let your kids leave soggy wet washcloths in the bathtub all week? Just sitting there? Because that’s what I had in mind. I have 4 kids. 4 kids time 7 days is 28 showers. Somehow a blob of 30 washcloths in the bottom of the shower getting smelly and slimy and gross is supposed to make it to the laundry room and I don’t want o have o mess with that!

 

Cleaning a bathroom involved spraying down the sink with disinfectant, scrubbing the tub, swabbing and wiping the toilet and mopping.

 

A 10 second wipe of the sink from water splatters closing the curtain because mine gets mold when open and hanging a washcloth to dry is not cleaning a bathroom .

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you!

[Frances]

I feel your pain!

 

What I implemented last month after my frustration reached it's peak:

 

I expect each of them to clean up after themselves (do your dishes, put away what you take out) in common areas. The bedrooms and their bathrooms are not going to be to my standards CLEARLY :ack2: :ack2: but piles of dirty laundry and crap all over their rooms and dirty bathrooms are beyond "what mom wants". As far as I am concerned, it is a life skill/health & wellbeing issue.

 

They now can keep their rooms clean "enough", or I assume they wish to hire me. :biggrinjester: At my discretion, I will do laundry, clean crap up, clean up a bathroom. And they receive a bill via Venmo.

 

How much? I am not a licensed contractor, so I don't give estimates. Charges vary based upon filth, my mood, the weather and perhaps how many Fritos are in the pantry. Nobody knows what the charge is until I send it.

 

And they have to pay it. No complaining, no negotiation. It is a bill, and it is due upon receipt.

 

I am calling it my cha-ching holiday house tour.

I think you need to implement this or some other consequences, such as withholding privileges, until the chores are done. Nagging and arguing are really negative consequences for you, not the teens.

[Joker]

We don't use washcloths here. If I had a child who insisted on one but also refused to put them where needed by the end of the day, I would quit supplying them. They could use a loofah (like the rest of us) or their hands. I definitely wouldn't fight about it.

[Scarlett]

Ds16 doesnt use washcloths. I try not to think how he actually gets clean. But ds17 takes 2 showers a day. Even with one of him that adds up quick. I wonder at what point it is suppose to be complaint worthy? I have let it go up to about 10.....so clearly he doesn't mind it piling up.

 

And Dss's deal is peeing on the floor. I just... No. Just no.

[Scarlett]

We don't use washcloths here. If I had a child who insisted on one but also refused to put them where needed by the end of the day, I would quit supplying them. They could use a loofah (like the rest of us) or their hands. I definitely wouldn't fight about it.

You all have a loofah? Just....hanging in the shower? Do you each have your own? How do you ensure you all use your own?

[Joker]

You all have a loofah? Just....hanging in the shower? Do you each have your own? How do you ensure you all use your own?

Everyone has their own color and they hang off a shower caddy. We've been doing it for years and never had a problem.

 

I do supply washcloths for guests.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

It's your house and you're the mom, so if you like things clean and the beds made, that's ok and they should learn to live within the boundaries that you set.  They're not unreasonable standards, so I don't agree with just shutting the door. Of course, that's fine for the others who want to do it that way, but you're saying that you're not ok with it.  And, that's ok.  

 

The question isn't if those should be your standards.  Those are your standards.  So, your real question is:  how do I enforce those?  

 

Honestly, I think the issue here is if your kids are going to show you respect.  The cleaning up is just the symptom of the disease. So, if you look at it in terms of teaching your kids to respect your perfectly reasonable house rules, I'd explain that to them and then commit to making this a hill to die on.  

 

Your bed is a privilege and not a right.  It can and will disappear if you abuse the privilege.  Ditto with everything else.  Privileges can be earned back.

 

 You're the only one who can tell if this is an attitude question that you want to address with drastic measures or if you just prefer to let this one slide.  Either way, I think it's beneficial to make a decision and stick with it.

 

 

 

A different perspective:

 

I had a parent who thought beds were privileges. We slept on cold, hard floors, with mice running over us at night. We were without beds not because of our behavior but because of poverty and pride. As a response to that experience, I believe that anyone living here has a right to a bed. I don't always make my bed, either. I mean, I do it 99% of the time, but I don't get to sleep up off of the floor because I'm a good housekeeper. I get to sleep up off the floor because I'm a person who lives here.

 

I also had a parent who thought it was her house, and she was letting us live there. (Until she got tired of me - I was homeless the month I turned 17.) As a response to that experience, I decided that when I brought children into this world, I was making a commitment to their birthright of food, clothing, shelter, education, health care, and affection and understanding - all as much as within me lies - until they were grown and capable of obtaining all of these for themselves. I didn't birth people without their input and then say, "This is my house but I'm letting you live here." 

 

I've gone bonkers over teens and tweens and chores, too. Everybody does. But my grown children, who are moving out as soon as they are able, are better off and feel more accepted (and still want to come see me) because 

 

1. I relaxed a LOT about housekeeping, once I had to try to compete with everybody else's messes and agendas. (I kept the house nearly perfectly when they were little, and that's what I'll do when they've all left home. We're talking about a dozen years of chaos in a whole lifetime, which isn't too many even for a clean freak like me.)

 

2. I let them know that this is their home. If they will be content here (and therefore pleasant to life with), or are just not ready or able to go, they are welcome to stay forever. They are not visitors in my home, *especially* as minors for whom I am responsible. We expect that they will grow up and become independent, because they want to, and have been (or will be) able to. But while they are minor children, they ARE home. Even if they're sloppy, loud, sarcastic, wasteful, or absentminded. If they are not dangerous criminals whom the law must handle, there is no question but that they may stay. WITH beds, food, and love. 

 

This is said by a woman whose teens do chores, and get called back to the kitchen over dishes, and who have to wash their own laundry, etc. They do plenty. But if they forget something, or even habitually screw up some area of housekeeping (current pet peeve - opening new containers of condiments when the last one wasn't empty), I remind myself that they are more important than whatever thing. This is a very important part of parenting. My two cents.

[Scarlett]

Everyone has their own color and they hang off a shower caddy. We've been doing it for years and never had a problem.

 

I do supply washcloths for guests.

I dont think this will ever happen in our house.

[Scarlett]

A different perspective:

 

I had a parent who thought beds were privileges. We slept on cold, hard floors, with mice running over us at night. We were without beds not because of our behavior but because of poverty and pride. As a response to that experience, I believe that anyone living here has a right to a bed. I don't always make my bed, either. I mean, I do it 99% of the time, but I don't get to sleep up off of the floor because I'm a good housekeeper. I get to sleep up off the floor because I'm a person who lives here.

 

I also had a parent who thought it was her house, and she was letting us live there. (Until she got tired of me - I was homeless the month I turned 17.) As a response to that experience, I decided that when I brought children into this world, I was making a commitment to their birthright of food, clothing, shelter, education, health care, and affection and understanding - all as much as within me lies - until they were grown and capable of obtaining all of these for themselves. I didn't birth people without their input and then say, "This is my house but I'm letting you live here."

 

I've gone bonkers over teens and tweens and chores, too. Everybody does. But my grown children, who are moving out as soon as they are able, are better off and feel more accepted (and still want to come see me) because

 

1. I relaxed a LOT about housekeeping, once I had to try to compete with everybody else's messes and agendas. (I kept the house nearly perfectly when they were little, and that's what I'll do when they've all left home. We're talking about a dozen years of chaos in a whole lifetime, which isn't too many even for a clean freak like me.)

 

2. I let them know that this is their home. If they will be content here (and therefore pleasant to life with), or are just not ready or able to go, they are welcome to stay forever. They are not visitors in my home, *especially* as minors for whom I am responsible. We expect that they will grow up and become independent, because they want to, and have been (or will be) able to. But while they are minor children, they ARE home. Even if they're sloppy, loud, sarcastic, wasteful, or absentminded. If they are not dangerous criminals whom the law must handle, there is no question but that they may stay. WITH beds, food, and love.

 

This is said by a woman whose teens do chores, and get called back to the kitchen over dishes, and who have to wash their own laundry, etc. They do plenty. But if they forget something, or even habitually screw up some area of housekeeping (current pet peeve - opening new containers of condiments when the last one wasn't empty), I remind myself that they are more important than whatever thing. This is a very important part of parenting. My two cents.

Well it isn't hard and fast, either or......these kids clearly don't feel,like ' visitors' , if they do they are sucky visitors. Sure it is their home, but they are under the umbrella of ME ...the one who owns the house and pays the bills. I am asking for a minimum of neatness and cleanliness.

 

And I am not so hard nosed I can't offer grace for oversleeping or a late night or a hard study day....we are talking about consistent refusal to do the most simple of tasks.

[Scarlett]

I make my bed 99% of the time. I would so settle for 99% from these boys.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I make my bed 99% of the time. I would so settle for 99% from these boys.

 

You're not going to get it. Fact. There are some OCD or just fastidious teenaged boys, but your two have shown you that they are not that kind. Part of raising teens is facing realities and adjusting yourself if you can't adjust them.

 

I don't think you got the point of my post, but maybe somebody will benefit from it.

[Scarlett]

You're not going to get it. Fact. There are some OCD or just fastidious teenaged boys, but your two have shown you that they are not that kind. Part of raising teens is facing realities and adjusting yourself if you can't adjust them.

 

I don't think you got the point of my post, but maybe somebody will benefit from it.

I do think I got it. You had a rough child hood. You lived in poverty. Your mother was a dictator who kicked you out at 17 and you are determined to be a better mother than that and make sure your kids know your home is their home.

 

I too had a rough childhood. Poverty. Lots of times living in sub par conditions. My mind just reels now remembering some of it which I won't detail here. My mom always made me feel her home was my home....she still does even though I am 52 and she is 72. But I never disregarded her requests on a regular basis like these kids do.

[eternalsummer]

Well look, except for the making your bed thing which I personally think is ridiculous (but hey, we all have something that makes us nuts and the rest of the family tries to accommodate it anyway), it's not like she's asking for anything any roommate wouldn't ask for.  No pee on the floor, no moldy pile of used washcloths in the bathroom, no dirty dishes just left on the table when you're done eating.  This is maybe 2 minutes, total, out of the day, and it concerns largely shared spaces.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Well look, except for the making your bed thing which I personally think is ridiculous (but hey, we all have something that makes us nuts and the rest of the family tries to accommodate it anyway), it's not like she's asking for anything any roommate wouldn't ask for.  No pee on the floor, no moldy pile of used washcloths in the bathroom, no dirty dishes just left on the table when you're done eating.  This is maybe 2 minutes, total, out of the day, and it concerns largely shared spaces.

 

I don't know if you're talking to me, but to answer you and Scarlett, I clearly said my boys have to do chores and are called back for missed chores when it makes sense for me to call them back.

 

I only answered two concepts put forth in this thread (and they come up really frequently):

 

1. Beds, dishes, food, access to utilities, etc. are privileges for children, that parents can take away.

2. It's the parent's house and the kids are privileged to be allowed to live there.

 

I disagree with these two points, and I think parents who treat their kids that way are going to regret it. I do not agree (as I made very clear) that children should not be taught responsibility and cleanliness.

 

The part where you balance not being a jerk to your children and raising them to be nice humans is called parenting, and 100% of families have to figure it out. 

[Scarlett]

I don't know if you're talking to me, but to answer you and Scarlett, I clearly said my boys have to do chores and are called back for missed chores when it makes sense for me to call them back.

 

I only answered two concepts put forth in this thread (and they come up really frequently):

 

1. Beds, dishes, food, access to utilities, etc. are privileges for children, that parents can take away.

2. It's the parent's house and the kids are privileged to be allowed to live there.

 

I disagree with these two points, and I think parents who treat their kids that way are going to regret it. I do not agree (as I made very clear) that children should not be taught responsibility and cleanliness.

 

The part where you balance not being a jerk to your children and raising them to be nice humans is called parenting, and 100% of families have to figure it out.

Well I have never actually taken away a bed, dishes, food, access to utilities. I did today tell my 17 .75 year old son that if he is actually incapable of putting his plate and cup in the machine that magically washes them for him that he needs to not eat breakfast here. So I guess I have suggested he not use my dishes if he can't abide by the most basic of courtesy and hygiene.

 

I do believe it is my house. My name is on the deed. I paid for it. I pay the utilities. And I also continuee to provide for my son bcause I love him and he is my responsibility.

[2_girls_mommy]

I agree that all of this is not too much to ask. I just called my teens back to the bathroom to pick up after their showers as I do every single day. They do not argue (at this point,) but they used to.  They load their dishes or at least take them to the sink most of the time.  But 9 times out of 10 I call them back to properly load or rerinse before they load into the dishwasher.  I have stated I want beds made, but they don't unless i tell them to go back and do it. 

 

I just keep sending them back to do it. Every day, every time. And eventually some of it becomes habit, and I find I am calling them back for less of the steps. Like it used to be walking away from the table and leaving plates. Now they don't do that. But they may not load it every time but leave it lying in the sink or they leave crumbs that need wiped, so now I focus on showing them that and having them wipe it up as the next skill/habit to instill. But at some point, I stopped having to remind them to clear the table and I will hopefully stop having to remind them on the next steps. 

 

I gave up on the washcloths and bathroom with my dh though. I will say, his mama did everything for him, and it shows. Even after 20 years, he leaves his sloppy wet washcloths hanging on the side of the sink. He leaves the baby's piled in the tub after he bathes her. I won't mention the toilet. But I send him back in to clean up his own messes there, just like I do my teens. But the washcloths. I gave up on. I pick them up, once or twice a day, and wipe out the sink myself with a cloth. Because I care about that. He doesn't even notice it. 

 

But the teens? I send them back in after every shower to hang their towels and pick up dirty clothes. Every day. I will have them trained at some point, lol. If they argued with me they would get a warning. If they continued it would mean losing a phone for the night or something. 

 

As for chores, they have those. I remind them to do them, but they do them. Those are things like unloading the dishwasher after I have run it or folding and putting away their clothes after I have run them. They also help clean house. We pick up all common areas daily. That is a given. They clean their own messes or help with the baby's. But for deeper cleaning, it is just a family thing when we have time. If we are going on a trip, somebody will help me clean out the car beforehand. On housecleaning day we divide and conquer. Those are chores, separate from picking up daily after themselves. It seems the picking up daily is just not something they notice or get that it piles up and causes more work later. But my dh is the same way. He tries, but only because of me. Mess piling up doesn't bother him. He would live in a pig pen if on his own.

[2_girls_mommy]

Well it isn't hard and fast, either or......these kids clearly don't feel,like ' visitors' , if they do they are sucky visitors. Sure it is their home, but they are under the umbrella of ME ...the one who owns the house and pays the bills. I am asking for a minimum of neatness and cleanliness.

 

And I am not so hard nosed I can't offer grace for oversleeping or a late night or a hard study day....we are talking about consistent refusal to do the most simple of tasks.

Yes, it is the refusal and arguing with you that is the issue. I am with you on thinking these are not things that are too much to be done for the most part. I want the same things. My kids know that I want them, but they still don't do most of the little things on their own. They just don't think of it or notice. But they don't argue with me or refuse to do it. They get called back to pick up a plate if it is left, and they do it. They will say sorry for forgetting. 

[eternalsummer]

I don't know if you're talking to me, but to answer you and Scarlett, I clearly said my boys have to do chores and are called back for missed chores when it makes sense for me to call them back.

 

I only answered two concepts put forth in this thread (and they come up really frequently):

 

1. Beds, dishes, food, access to utilities, etc. are privileges for children, that parents can take away.

2. It's the parent's house and the kids are privileged to be allowed to live there.

 

I disagree with these two points, and I think parents who treat their kids that way are going to regret it. I do not agree (as I made very clear) that children should not be taught responsibility and cleanliness.

 

The part where you balance not being a jerk to your children and raising them to be nice humans is called parenting, and 100% of families have to figure it out. 

 

 

I wasn't responding to you specifically but to the thread in general; I do completely agree with you about the ownership of family property and taking away things like beds, doors, utilities, etc. (although we do restrict internet access).

[katilac]

The washcloth thing is the very definition of sweating the small stuff.

 

 

Another "disagree" vote - it takes almost no time to hang up a washcloth, and wet, crumpled washcloths are seriously nasty germ factories. And, like Scarlett said, how many moldering wash cloths are acceptable? Just the one? Two? Seven because you save them for the weekly cleanup? That would be nasty, lol. 

 

I have used your exact words quite often: our house will be clean and quiet soon enough. However, I say it in relation to having tons of kids over and the kids doing messy activities, not in relation to my kids refusing to do very mild chores (as noted, not even chores, just routine tasks). Scarlett's kids are being silly and stubborn about this, imo, and I don't think insisting on these things is a big deal. 

 

 

Well, it it makes you feel any better I came home and have not left my room. I am drinking wine and eating chips and I did not cook dinner.  

 

Good for you!  

 

The differing attitudes on this thread are reminding me of a meme my niece posted recently: Some parents sing the clean-up song; I just grab a garbage bag and holler, you better hope you can pick up your toys faster than I can! I know plenty of parents of both types, and all of the kids seem to survive without undue trauma, lol. 

[KungFuPanda]

No, no it is NOT cleaning a bathroom. The wash cloth 'thing' turns into 10 piled in there by the end of the week. Would that be a problem for you then? How many would it take before you insisted they removed their used washcloth?

 

And they do accomplish NOTHING without being reminded 50 times.

Honestly, that hasn’t happened here. I’m not sure I own enough washcloths for that to happen. My kids use one for a few days, then swap it out, but generally they are hung on the side of the tub and dry when they go in the hamper so there IS no soggy backlog in a pile anywhere. I also live with boys who can aim. Nobody has peed on the floor since my son was a toddler. He’s disabled to, so if he can hit the target it must not take a great deal of dexterity.

 

I don’t mean to make you crazy. This is an interesting puzzle to me but I don’t have to live it like you do. I did have a towel hanging thing when my daughter was home from college. She was leaving her wet bathmat on the bath rug. I reminded her to hang it. She forgot. I posted a sign on the door that read “Please hang your towel, The Management.†She walked by it. When I put the SECOND sign on her bedroom door that said. “Seriously. Hang your towel.†she finally did it.

 

I think if it becomes about feelings it can get blown out of proportion. Maybe there is a more practical fix, like owning fewer washcloths, or posting a reminder sign, or programming your internet to be off during getting-ready-time so there is no option to zone out instead. I live by lists; especially in the morning.

 

Maybe ask them “What’s it going to TAKE to get you to do this daily?†If you can relax on the when and be satisfied that it happens every day they may have a workable solution. You don’t want to go attaching feelings to wiping the sink. It’s not really a sign of whether anyone loves you or not.

[eternalsummer]

I have to admit I loled at Scarlet saying "I think not" about making dinner and the teenager saying, well maybe he'd make some eggs.

 

This is how things work in real life too :)