When family makes you twitch

[Innisfree]

SIL and family retired to this area specifically to be near us. She feels strongly about staying (literally and metaphorically) close to family, and the older generation is gone.

 

The trouble is that she drives me bonkers.

 

She talks incessantly, is an alcoholic, expresses opinions freely and has views about people's economic circumstances, sexual orientation and behavior that make me twitch. Nothing is as good as it was in the past, and grievances are never forgotten. She is usually at least slightly tipsy.

 

She has had a hard life in some ways, though she has always been economically comfortable.

 

She is also generous, and intends to be kind. She wants to be close to the kids, but she says things that sound like criticism to them (often the criticism is real). So the kids try to avoid her and don't want to share personal information.

 

Phone calls from her are hour-long monologues. Even DH, who loves her, tries to avoid them.

 

I'm fine with visits on major holidays and certain birthdays. Distant cordiality has seemed the best path, with the distance helping to maintain the cordiality. According to this pattern, we see them maybe eight times a year. But she really wants more, and I'm having a hard time deciding appropriate boundaries.

 

How much of an obligation would you feel to cultivate a closer relationship with a SIL whom, truth be told, you really just don't like?

 

I feel a lot of sympathy for her, but if I have to be around her more than about an hour, I start to get very antsy.

 

She asks us out to dinner periodically, so we need to reciprocate. Personally I'd decline some of these, but DH won't. She keeps inviting the kids to things they don't want to do, and is hurt when they decline. She bluntly says that she wants me to spend more time with her. During the school year she reluctantly accepts that school keeps us busy, but summer is coming. Last night she had more ideas for things we could do. Ugh.

 

How would you handle this relationship? How guilty would you feel about not being the close SIL she wants?

[Janeway]

I don't know. Is she complaining about everyone because she is just a grouchy miserable person, or is she attacking or hostile toward you or your children or husband? If it is the first, I would say put up with her and try to direct the flavor of conversations to be more tolerable. If she is hostile, then keep a distance.

 

And as for being an alcoholic, never leave the kids alone with her. And have talks with them about how what she does is not ok. If you say nothing and the kids see it, the kids might grow to think you are ok with it. Alcoholism runs in families, not just because of genetics but also because of modeled behavior. People get so busy tip toeing around the problem and not wanting to risk hurting anyone's feelings or coming off as insulting anyone, but then the kids grow up thinking the behavior is ok.

 

 

[Um_2_4]

Um, I thin you might "need" to switch to year round schooling. Like a 6 week on, 1 week off schedule. And trust me that 1 week off will be BUSY , what with home projects (clean out that hall closet, prep the guest room for parent's visit, reorganize the pantry, ykwim) and lesson planning for the next 6 weeks. ( I do take some extra time off a couple times a year, like at end of may we will take 6-7 weeks.)

 

I couldn't cultivate a relationship like that and I wouldn't force my kids to do so. I don't know how old they are, but I bet they will start being busy with "extras" and won't have as much time.

 

Whether she is naturally negative, or just towards you and yours, those sort of people are not the influences that one needs in their life.

If your DH must include them, think of activities where the talking could be limited. Invite them to DCs plays, recitals, etc. Keep the visit brief and no "hanging out" at the house afterwards. You know, kids are wiped out after performance, etc.

[Plink]

She sounds like someone with some sort of personal struggle (loneliness at least) who self-medicates with alcohol. Is there any way you can encourage her to get professional help?

 

I wouldn't feel guilty about distancing myself and my family from somebody like this. Their pain, poor decisions, and addiction is not a valid reason to martyr your children.

[Innisfree]

She complains because she thinks others don't do things the right way, and because she feels badly treated. Many of the grievances are decades old.

 

She doesn't intend to attack others but sees herself as a downright, plain spoken sort. The kids are the main victims of this, because kids should listen to their elders. She is elaborately courteous to me.

 

And don't worry, the alcoholism bit is covered. She is never responsible for the kids' safety, and the subject has been thoroughly discussed.

 

Kids, btw, are 12 and 14.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Innisfree

[Innisfree]

She sounds like someone with some sort of personal struggle (loneliness at least) who self-medicates with alcohol. Is there any way you can encourage her to get professional help?

 

I wouldn't feel guilty about distancing myself and my family from somebody like this. Their pain, poor decisions, and addiction is not a valid reason to martyr your children.

 

Yes, I think this is spot on.

 

She has been through treatment programs but has never acknowledged that she is an alcoholic. She merely has a drinking problem. Her DH appears to have given up this battle.

 

My DH has talked with her about mental health and neurological issues that plainly run in the family, but she does not agree that they exist.

[Rebel Yell]

I don't even get to see nearby relatives that I actually LIKE 8 times/year, and that was how often you saw her when she lived far away!

 

I don't know how old your kids are, but it sounds like they're old enough to recognize that this isn't a healthy person to spend too much time with. And the tipsy/drinking issue, no matter what, never leave your kids alone with her no matter what their age.

 

Once a month visits seems reasonable to me, but we only have widowed moms nearby, and don't even see them that often. As much as possible, have activities be specific and limited. Zoo, museum: places like that where you're together but the focus is on the place or event. Dinner out, where you can come and go as you please. Sporting or theater events. Amusement parks are also good for that "big memory" thing, but reasonable and expected that groups will split up and regroup maybe just for meals or a special ride.

 

If you have medium-large gatherings like BBQs, she can come to those so she's at your house but not a one in one visit.

 

And DH can certainly spend time with her without you. If you really want to (or feel you have to) do SIL things, again think of limited activities, like a pedicure? Same place, post pictures of your matching toesies on Facebook, and you're out in under an hour with a quick-dry topcoat LOL!

 

Basically, anything other than Family Game Night at your house.

 

Also, if she accepts that your school year is busy, she could hopefully accept that you want to have some time to yourself, unplanned and unstructured, in the summers to recoup and prepare for the coming year.

 

And plan things out as far as practical- say an amusement park the second week of June, somwhen she asks to go to the zoo in May you can tell her you're not available but looking forward to the amusement park in June. "No" sounds nicer when there is already a future event planned.

 

Good luck!

[lmrich]

I think it easier to have the annoying relative closer.  You might see them more often, but it will be for shorter times. You can also control what you do together. Go to the movies or a concert. Invite her to things that have a clear ending time so you have an exit strategy. (think come over for dessert not dinner)

[Calm37]

Movies are a good option with people like this. You get the "going out together points" and spend 2 hours sitting next to each other not talking. 

[happi duck]

I've had to be blunt with my sister. It helped our relationship but of course ymmv!

[momacacia]

 

"She doesn't intend to attack others but sees herself as a downright, plain spoken sort. The kids are the main victims of this, because kids should listen to their elders. She is elaborately courteous to me." "She intends to be kind," but evidently no one else sees her as kind. Hmmm, evidently she isn't kind.

 

I would start feeling a lot of sympathy for your kids, not her. You don't owe her anything...certainly not a relationship with your kids, and you don't need to readjust your entire homeschool schedule just to be "busy" (unless it.suits you) when she wants to hang out.

 

I strongly suspect also that if, whenever you talk to her, you turn the conversation with her to dealing with the alcohol and any of her other problems, you may hear from her even less. Just keep asking questions about those things; how is she doing with that, has she considered xyz again, maybe she should do thus and so to deal with alcohol issue, etc.

[Innisfree]

Does it change things if I add that the complaints and criticism, while recurrent, are not the bulk of her conversation? Mostly she just talks about anything and everything, long descriptions of what she's been doing, descriptions of family relationships I learned years ago, just stream of consciousness talking.

 

When I say she means to be kind, I mean she has always turned up with balloons and elaborate presents for the kids' birthdays, she always asks about what they are doing, she offers to help with everything under the sun, she made dinners for us when my parents were dying.

 

She just doesn't listen well enough to understand what the kids actually want for their birthdays, or if we make it painfully obvious, she expresses the idea that something else would be better.

 

She suggests thing to do with them, then gets upset if they feel like they've outgrown that activity.

 

She doesn't agree with choices they make, and says so.

 

At this point they just want to stay away from her, and mostly I have facilitated that. They are never alone with her.

 

I told DH years ago that it would be easier to be blunt with her, but he felt (and feels) like that would be rude. So I have kept on being carefully polite, since she's his sister. We are very carefully polite with each other. She just keeps pushing, very clearly, for something more, and I just keep politely being busy. It is driving me nuts.

 

To clarify, they moved here more than ten years ago, so this is not a new situation.

[Innisfree]

Movies are a good option with people like this. You get the "going out together points" and spend 2 hours sitting next to each other not talking.

Yes, movies are a good idea. We've done this a few times. I should do it more.

[Outdoorsy Type]

I would work toward finding her healthy outlets in your community, and I like the movie idea. It sounds like she is a lovely person with mental illness, and she can't see a way to get better.

 

I know I've been there. I went through a majorly depressing time in my life, and I thought I kept it together. In retrospect, I was negative and needy and drove people away.

[gardenmom5]

read boundaries by townsend and cloud

sounds similar to my brother. . . . an obnoxious know-it-all boor.

 

it's ok to say "no".

It's ok to limit a telephone call - you are not obligated to listen to someone drone for an hour. 

you do not have to visit just because they want to visit.

 

chances are good she's like this because no one is willing to say "no" to her.  you don't have to give her a lecture on what a boor she is - just say "no", can't talk now.  no, I can't come over next week.  No, you can't come over next week.  etc.

 

and you do NOT have to give a reason why the phone call is ending after 10 minutes (or even 5 or 1).  you do NOT have to give a reason why having her over every week (or every other week) doesn't work for you - or going to her house on a frequent basis doesn't work for you.

 

it is ok to change the subject.  it is okay to ask them why they would say __ (that was so obnoxious - sometimes they don't realize it and calling attention to it in a non-confrontational way *might* open their eyes.)

 

If you will start saying "no", your resentment level will decrease, and you might be able to better focus on what good points you see.

 

 

[MedicMom]

With your update information, I frankly would suspect she's actually on the autism spectrum with limited social skills(not diagnosis, but it's easier to give a reference point). She sounds like she means well and has the very best of attentions, but struggles socially.

 

Perhaps it's been a lifelong struggle for her and she feels that living close to family and doing things with you will reduce some of her loneliness.

[kroe1]

How about, "you drive me nuts when you keep up like this. Please stop."

[Rebel Yell]

Maybe it's time for your DH to respond to all social requests and phone calls from his sister

 

Unless you think he'll end up planning way too many family "fun" days with her

 

If he doesn't want you to directly tell her you aren't interested in more frequent visits, then the burden of communication needs to be on him

[Faithful_Steward]

I think you are incredibly lucky to have a Sil who clearly loves your family and wants to be a part of your lives. I would be perfectly honest about the more annoying behaviors and ignore the rest.

[ealp2009]

I would feel guilty too. Is there anything that you could invite her to where you wouldn't actually have to have a great deal of conversation? Like a child's recital or play or concert.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited May 6, 2017 by ealp2009

[happi duck]

I don't think blunt needs to be rude, ime.

 

Hints and hoping don't always get the point across, kwim?

 

To stealthily limit contact seems more rude than a hard to say but kindly worded request.

 

It is okay to tell someone "I don't want to talk about that" or "I can't listen to you vent, it upsets me".

 

Stating what you can handle is okay, imo.

 

Making a judgement is where rude comes in, kwim?

[Innisfree]

Thanks, all. I appreciate the different perspectives.

 

This is difficult for me, as you see. Both her positive qualities and her negative ones are very genuine. I don't want to be unkind, but somehow, I find her very hard to take in large doses. I wish I were better at this.

 

I'll consider all you have said.

[Tanaqui]

It's your husband's sister, and he's the one concerned about being rude to her. Why not have him meet up with her more often while you and the kids are busy doing other things? If he's not willing to do this, then it may be time to push for a different approach with her.

 

And honestly - if she likes to see herself as plainspeaking, there is a 50/50 chance that she will not be offended by the direct approach, so long as you manage to avoid using actual insults.

[Alicia64]

I'm just answering your question: I wouldn't feel guilty in the least to set down firm boundaries and call it a day. (A lot of people have very difficult lives -- that's no excuse for any of her behavior.)

 

Just being honest, I don't mean to be rude, but I wouldn't want my kids having to deal w/ her.

 

Alley

[Guest]

She has a mental illness.

 

Also, its nice that she retired to be near you, but she should be spending time with her husband. Your children are not her children, she needs to find her new life role without using them. And she needs to let you and her brother parent while your family develops its bonds. If she wants to work with youth, refer her to the various mentorship opportunities in your community. Otherwise, limit her to extended family gatherings.

[gardenmom5]

It's your husband's sister, and he's the one concerned about being rude to her. Why not have him meet up with her more often while you and the kids are busy doing other things? If he's not willing to do this, then it may be time to push for a different approach with her.

 

And honestly - if she likes to see herself as plainspeaking, there is a 50/50 chance that she will not be offended by the direct approach, so long as you manage to avoid using actual insults.

 

ime: it's more like 80/20 they will be offended.  (and that's with no insults.)  those I know who are like this, see themselves as "with-it" and to have it pointed out to them that not only are they not - but they're offending people by just how not 'with-it' they are  . . . well, they tend to shoot the messenger.  (this includes those I've been the 3rd party watching as well as the one trying to diplomatically suggest they look at ___ a different way.)