Moving to a house that needs renovations.

[PrincessMommy]

We're seriously considering moving again after 5yrs.  I've never warmed up to where we live, the taxes are pretty high, and all our children have moved further East of us along the 95 corridor.  They've all stated that they don't plan to ever move back to this county.

 

So, we're looking at a house that would cost significantly less than our current house.  Taxes are nearly half of what we pay here.  Also, it's 10-15min. closer to our adult children without making my husband's commute worse.  The closest child currently lives 30-35 mins from us.  We'll be 6min from our youngest's school as apposed to 20min.  So, it's a move but not a major move.  We do eventually plan to move out of the area completely, but that isn't for at least another 8-10yrs.

 

The house I'm currently looking at would need some major renovations.  The kitchen is probably 30yrs old and a postage stamp... as is the dining room.  There's animal pee smell in the flooring (wood and pergo).   My thought is that I would like to do an addition to enlarge the kitchen and dining room area.  I don't care that the bedrooms are small.  There's really only two things I need a bedroom for  ;) .  But, since we like to have our growing family over as much as possible, I'd like the common areas to be bigger.  I'd probably add some sunroof openings too. The windows aren't that big and it's rancher.

 

The yard however, is perfect.  I just love it.   It's big and flat and is fenced in.  There's several mature trees on the property.   There's no HOA, so we can do what we want without all the hoops.  

 

How does one go about figuring out the cost of such things?  How do we figure out if it's worth it in the long-run since we're not looking to stay 20yrs in one spot?  We will probably be able to do some of the renovations before we move in.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

If you are talking about moving walls, rearranging plumbing, anything like that, I would seriously hesitate to take that on if you do not intend to stay in the home for, like, ever.  

 

But if you are seriously considering this, hire a reputable contractor to inspect the house and give you a ballpark idea of the cost.  Then hire a second one to give you a second opinion since costs can vary widely.  Have them write it down so you can compare apples to apples.  Then add another estimated 20% to the cost since nearly ANY renovation will have cost overruns and a renovation involving more than just cosmetic surface stuff will absolutely have cost overruns.

 

Can you afford to buy the home, renovate for weeks or months and stay in your current home while you do it?

[OneStepAtATime]

Also, check city ordinances.  You may have to pay for permits and get inspections, etc.

 

Do you have a lot of spare time to devote to a major renovation?

[PrincessMommy]

Thanks for these replies with food for thought.

 

The house is not located within city-limits but our county has lots of regulations.  We'd have to do everything through them.  From previous experience, some companies will do it all for us and just pass the cost on to us.  My husband has said that he does not want to be handy-man.  So if we do it it will be done by a contractor.  Definitely will make it more expensive. 

 

We can afford to stay where we are while the major parts of the reno are being done.  In about 3 months I will have much more time than I currently do.   But, we're not in a big hurry to move on this particular house. It's been on the market for 3yrs!.  It's priced about 50K more than it is worth, so getting her down will probably be impossible.  It's for sale by owner and my realtor says the owner is not living in reality (it's her parents home).   But, the neighborhood is pretty large and I'm willing to wait for another possibility to come up.  It's just the yard... it really is wonderful.   Not all the yards are this nice.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by PrincessMommy

[OneStepAtATime]

Nice yard as in shape/size/location?  Or is the yard just amazingly well kept?

 

 

[Home'scool]

We have a lot of people who come into our office (Board of Health) who are thinking about doing renovations to either their existing home or a home they are thinking of buying. We can tell them if it is even feasible from the town regulations (distance to septic tank, etc.) and give them an idea as to what we would sign off on and what would be rejected. They also go to the building department to get advice on property lines and their regulations, etc.

 

This can save you some time before you go to a builder or an architect. Sometimes it's not even feasible to bump out a kitchen

[OneStepAtATime]

Home'scool makes excellent points.  I would go that route and look at getting two contractors to give you an estimate afterwards.  Major renos are not for the faint of heart but if you really want this, doing the research ahead of time can be a HUGE help in preventing a major, costly mistake.

 

FWIW, I've done multiple renovations.  Some were more cosmetic.  Some involved significant changes, including the restructuring of a kitchen.  Some I did myself, some were a hybrid, some were strictly with a contractor.  Some were while we were living in the house, some while we were living elsewhere, some while we were doing a bit of both.  They all took longer than anticipated, cost more than estimated, and were really, really time consuming.

 

But most were worth it in the long run.  :)

[PrincessMommy]

Nice yard as in shape/size/location?  Or is the yard just amazingly well kept?

 

Nice shape, size and location.   It's nicely kept, but not like exceptionally done.  Lawn mowed, hedges clipped, trees nicely spaced.  That sort of thing.

[PrincessMommy]

We have a lot of people who come into our office (Board of Health) who are thinking about doing renovations to either their existing home or a home they are thinking of buying. We can tell them if it is even feasible from the town regulations (distance to septic tank, etc.) and give them an idea as to what we would sign off on and what would be rejected. They also go to the building department to get advice on property lines and their regulations, etc.

 

This can save you some time before you go to a builder or an architect. Sometimes it's not even feasible to bump out a kitchen

 

 

Thank you! this is very helpful.  Is it possible to get this information on a house one doesn't own?

 

I had wondered about the location of the septic field in relation to my ideas.  It may prove problematic.

Edited January 30, 2017 by PrincessMommy

[Home'scool]

Thank you! this is very helpful.  Is it possible to get this information on a house one doesn't own?

 

I had wondered about the location of the septic field in relation to my ideas.  It may proof problematic

 

Yes, you can get information on a house that you do not own. They are all public records. Just go in and ask for the plot plan that shows where the septic is in relation to the house.

[Janeway]

We're seriously considering moving again after 5yrs.  I've never warmed up to where we live, the taxes are pretty high, and all our children have moved further East of us along the 95 corridor.  They've all stated that they don't plan to ever move back to this county.

 

So, we're looking at a house that would cost significantly less than our current house.  Taxes are nearly half of what we pay here.  Also, it's 10-15min. closer to our adult children without making my husband's commute worse.  The closest child currently lives 30-35 mins from us.  We'll be 6min from our youngest's school as apposed to 20min.  So, it's a move but not a major move.  We do eventually plan to move out of the area completely, but that isn't for at least another 8-10yrs.

 

The house I'm currently looking at would need some major renovations.  The kitchen is probably 30yrs old and a postage stamp... as is the dining room.  There's animal pee smell in the flooring (wood and pergo).   My thought is that I would like to do an addition to enlarge the kitchen and dining room area.  I don't care that the bedrooms are small.  There's really only two things I need a bedroom for  ;) .  But, since we like to have our growing family over as much as possible, I'd like the common areas to be bigger.  I'd probably add some sunroof openings too. The windows aren't that big and it's rancher.

 

The yard however, is perfect.  I just love it.   It's big and flat and is fenced in.  There's several mature trees on the property.   There's no HOA, so we can do what we want without all the hoops.  

 

How does one go about figuring out the cost of such things?  How do we figure out if it's worth it in the long-run since we're not looking to stay 20yrs in one spot?  We will probably be able to do some of the renovations before we move in.

I think you should run the numbers. BUT, if you are planning to move in another 8-10 years, I might postpone the move just because it takes a lot of time and energy and money to get a house ready for sale and to sell it.

[PrincessMommy]

I think you should run the numbers. BUT, if you are planning to move in another 8-10 years, I might postpone the move just because it takes a lot of time and energy and money to get a house ready for sale and to sell it.

 

 

even if you're incredibly unhappy where you are?  Is it worth it to suck it up?  I'm really curious..  This is part of what we need to figure out.  

[Annie G]

Are you holding out for the owner to accept a price that reflects the current value? If you don't, you probably won't get any return out of the renovations you do and that might be an issue since you only plan to stay another 8-10 years. 

 

But I agree with the advice to get a contractor to give you an idea of the renovation cost. Get details- two quotes might be different prices but you can to be sure they are quoting the same thing- same size, quality of materials level of finishing, etc. 

 

 Hope it works out- sounds lovely!

[My4arrows]

I would only do it if I had a contractor i trusted to get the work done correctly, in a good time period and within a reasonable cost AND if I was ok to sell that house at a loss if needed for the next move or stay there until.

Edited January 30, 2017 by My4arrows

[SebastianCat]

One other thing to consider with major renovations is the timeframe.   We are in the midst of doing some (relatively minor) projects with our house - some things we are doing ourselves, but for others we are hiring professionals.   We had windows replaced, put shutters in some windows, roof cleaned, exterior of the house painted, outdoor light fixtures replaced, a little bit of indoor painting, new furniture for one room, and new drapes for a large window and sliding glass door areas.   ALL of what we are doing could be completed in a month's time, but we signed the first contract in August, and all of what I listed won't be completely finished until at least the end of March.   I never expected that these projects would take SO long - and nothing we are doing (except maybe replacing windows, which did require a permit and an inspection) would be considered a "major" renovation.   There have been several times in the process where my stress level has been excessive because of all of the juggling of projects.

[kathkath]

Yes to the above and go to the city building departments to pull permits on previous work that has been done.

[Carol in Cal.]

My observations:

 

1.  People appear to stay in a home, rented or not, for much longer than they plan to.  Are you like that?  Only you know.  But almost everyone I know is.

2.  Renovations, especially large ones, seem to usually take about twice as long as projected, if everything goes well.  If nasty messed up but previously hidden stuff is discovered, they take much longer.  How long can you live in your current home while paying for a mortgage on the new one?  Can you absorb a significantly more expensive remodel than projected if that proves necessary?

3.  Being happy with your surroundings is quite valuable.  Every time I've moved into a place that I felt good in, which is hard to define, I enjoyed being in it.  When I lived in a place that I didn't really feel good in, I was on the go more, because I didn't really want to be there.  Thankfully when I bought my first house I enjoyed being in it, since I couldn't really afford to do anything elsewhere for several years.  I could have bought a much bigger house that I hated, but despite the urgings of many about how it was not as good an investment, I bought the one I actually liked.  Wild card:  It also turned into a good investment, but that was not a given.  It sounds like this place might not pinch you financially, and I think that makes it well worth considering since you love it.

4.  An unreasonable sales price is iffy, but after a suitable period of time people usually cave to the actual value in the market if they get tired of waiting around for the market to increase.  It's always worthwhile to make an offer.  The worst that can happen is that they say no.  But maybe they will counter with something reasonable.

 

In summary, my guess is that you'll stay in this house much longer than you think, and it sounds like it's worth it since you don't really like where you are living now.  However, since what you're planning to do to it sounds fairly major, it also sounds like it might end up costing more than you project, so it's important to evaluate whether you can handle that financially, and also what your fallback will be if that happens.  

 

[Catwoman]

Have you looked at other houses in the area that don't require renovation? Might it be better to pay a higher price for a move-in ready home?

[OneStepAtATime]

Here is another question, how actively and widely have you looked for homes in areas you think you would like better than where you live now?

 

Since this house you are considering has been on the market for 3 years and is way over priced (instead of underpriced and people are chomping at the bit) it seems you have some time to really look around first, before committing to a very costly and time consuming renovation. If you have already been seriously actively looking for a long time and this is the only one that has appealed to you, but is in a location you strongly desire and has features (besides just the yard) that you like, then I would pursue this more strongly. If, however, you have only casually been looking I think it might make sense to really dig in with looking at properties in your preferred area. You might find something that needs less work and would potentially have more features you enjoy/like.

Edited January 30, 2017 by OneStepAtATime

[Scarlett]

Well.

 

We bought a fixer.  4 1/2 years ago.  It still isn't finished.  Financially we have not hurt ourselves....eventually we will come out with a profit.  But it has taken a heavy toll on me.  Mostly me. 

 

If I ever bought a fixer again it would only be if I could have the work completed before we move in. 

[Rebel Yell]

It sounds like the best feature in this house is the yard, and you also like the neighborhood. But the HOUSE is overpriced by $50,000??? I bet you could buy a fairly priced house in the same neighborhood needing fewer renovations and then spend that $50K on landscaping and improving the yard. We have really crappy yards on my street, and a neighbor did some major work on the yard... leveling, walls, landscaping, it looks like a little paradise compared to our rocky mud slopes!

[PrincessMommy]

Are you holding out for the owner to accept a price that reflects the current value? If you don't, you probably won't get any return out of the renovations you do and that might be an issue since you only plan to stay another 8-10 years. 

 

But I agree with the advice to get a contractor to give you an idea of the renovation cost. Get details- two quotes might be different prices but you can to be sure they are quoting the same thing- same size, quality of materials level of finishing, etc. 

 

 Hope it works out- sounds lovely!

 

 

yes, this is the plan.  However, I just talked with my realtor and she said the last time anything sold in that neighborhood was in 2013.  That's not a hopeful sign for me.

[OneStepAtATime]

yes, this is the plan.  However, I just talked with my realtor and she said the last time anything sold in that neighborhood was in 2013.  That's not a hopeful sign for me.

:crying:

[PrincessMommy]

My observations:

 

1.  People appear to stay in a home, rented or not, for much longer than they plan to.  Are you like that?  Only you know.  But almost everyone I know is.

2.  Renovations, especially large ones, seem to usually take about twice as long as projected, if everything goes well.  If nasty messed up but previously hidden stuff is discovered, they take much longer.  How long can you live in your current home while paying for a mortgage on the new one?  Can you absorb a significantly more expensive remodel than projected if that proves necessary?

3.  Being happy with your surroundings is quite valuable.  Every time I've moved into a place that I felt good in, which is hard to define, I enjoyed being in it.  When I lived in a place that I didn't really feel good in, I was on the go more, because I didn't really want to be there.  Thankfully when I bought my first house I enjoyed being in it, since I couldn't really afford to do anything elsewhere for several years.  I could have bought a much bigger house that I hated, but despite the urgings of many about how it was not as good an investment, I bought the one I actually liked.  Wild card:  It also turned into a good investment, but that was not a given.  It sounds like this place might not pinch you financially, and I think that makes it well worth considering since you love it.

4.  An unreasonable sales price is iffy, but after a suitable period of time people usually cave to the actual value in the market if they get tired of waiting around for the market to increase.  It's always worthwhile to make an offer.  The worst that can happen is that they say no.  But maybe they will counter with something reasonable.

 

In summary, my guess is that you'll stay in this house much longer than you think, and it sounds like it's worth it since you don't really like where you are living now.  However, since what you're planning to do to it sounds fairly major, it also sounds like it might end up costing more than you project, so it's important to evaluate whether you can handle that financially, and also what your fallback will be if that happens.  

 

I have also wondered if we end up living in the house longer than we really think.  That happened with our previous house.  I thought we'd be there 10 or so years.  We ended up there 19.  But, we were raising kids and didn't want move away from their friends/neighbors, so we stayed.  

 

When we bought this house, we knew it was going to be "temporary".  We thought we'd stay until our son grad. from high school.  But, it hasn't turned out at all as we expected (too long to relate).  I've been unhappy since before we moved, and things didn't improve after the move.  It is in a very desirable neighborhood and an expensive zipcode.  We won't have any trouble selling.  We'll probably break even on the sale of this house.

[PrincessMommy]

Here is another question, how actively and widely have you looked for homes in areas you think you would like better than where you live now?

 

Since this house you are considering has been on the market for 3 years and is way over priced (instead of underpriced and people are chomping at the bit) it seems you have some time to really look around first, before committing to a very costly and time consuming renovation. If you have already been seriously actively looking for a long time and this is the only one that has appealed to you, but is in a location you strongly desire and has features (besides just the yard) that you like, then I would pursue this more strongly. If, however, you have only casually been looking I think it might make sense to really dig in with looking at properties in your preferred area. You might find something that needs less work and would potentially have more features you enjoy/like.

 

I have been looking in that particular area for about 4 months.   I've been looking in other areas close by too, but have zeroed in on that neighborhood because it fits our needs concerning commutes and the style neighborhood we like.  For instance, if I move just 5 mins from this neighborhood the houses are way too big and expensive.  We're trying to downsize too.  We don't need a 3000sq ft mansion.  :)   We also want either a rancher (preferred) or split level.  They are not as popular in this county so I'm limited that way too.

 

There's a house in foreclosure in the neighborhood. I drove past it on Saturday.  It has a big blue tarp on the roof, the yard & driveway is completely overgrown, and there were two abandoned cars in the driveway.    Not exactly another possible option.

 

I wish there was some way to read a neighborhood and find out if there are people there getting ready to go on the market.

 

OTOH, since it seems obvious this particular seller isn't in a hurry to move her house, I can probably wait it out.  It's still a little early in the season for my area.  My realtor is going to call her and get a feel for her willingness to budge.