So, what do you all think about all the voter fraud we're seeing BEFORE

[nmoira]

The RNC paid Sproul & Associates over $8 million dollars.

 

Now, I have some problems with ACORN -- for one thing, I find them to be too brash and in-your-face and I think this is proving counter productive for them in the long run. However, they do a lot of good work. I personally think it's admirable to reach out to marginalized and disenfranchised populations in an effort to bring them into the political process (and I'm not just talking about voting). In many recent right wing diatribes against ACORN, I detect (and it could merely be my impression) something of a sneer at the idea of registering, for example, homeless people.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122394051071230749.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

 

Excerpt:

Which brings us to Mr. Obama, who got his start as a Chicago "community organizer" at Acorn's side. In 1992 he led voter registration efforts as the director of Project Vote, which included Acorn. This past November, he lauded Acorn's leaders for being "smack dab in the middle" of that effort. Mr. Obama also served as a lawyer for Acorn in 1995, in a case against Illinois to increase access to the polls.

 

During his tenure on the board of Chicago's Woods Fund, that body funneled more than $200,000 to Acorn. More recently, the Obama campaign paid $832,000 to an Acorn affiliate. The campaign initially told the Federal Election Commission this money was for "staging, sound, lighting." It later admitted the cash was to get out the vote.

[Karen sn]

the election. I just read that the Obama campaign paid ACORN $800,000 to get folks registered to vote. I'm glad this news is coming out before we vote, but I've had a feeling all along that there would be voter issues with this election. I think the whole thing is insane.

 

Can you even recall the last time we had a fair election?

A REAL election....one not rigged?

[fractalgal]

Somehow it doesn't seem like a very well thought out attempt to submit a fraudulent vote.

:iagree: That's why I was laughing.

[Holly IN]

It also has come out in Ohio that there is a major voter fraud. The democrates got homeless people to go in and register to vote numerous times. One guy registered as much as 1000 times. This was all over the news the past few days.

 

Very distressing and very disturbing. I really do feel that our rights as voters are deterioating (sp?) because of these frauds. Why can't we play nice??!!!!:glare:

 

Holly

[ma23peas]

 

I personally think it's admirable to reach out to marginalized and disenfranchised populations in an effort to bring them into the political process (and I'm not just talking about voting). In many recent right wing diatribes against ACORN, I detect (and it could merely be my impression) something of a sneer at the idea of registering, for example, homeless people.

 

I am saying it's only your impression..the sneers are at ACORN putting 95% of their non-partisan efforts on helping the "marginalized and disenfranchised" populations into just the swing states. What about all the other 30+ states that have disenfranchised voters...the sneer comes when they are seeking warm bodies to push their agenda...most decidedly a partisan agenda. We're screaming, why the imbalance? Where's the impartiality? Where's the legality of registering votes..is their agenda that much greater than the right for every disenfranchised voter to be able to vote? No, for ACORN that is not the case..did you realize that over 90% of all their 'new' registered voters are in the swing states? And that they only targeted 20 states in all..I keep saying it till I'm blue in the face, there is a preponderance of evidence here that cannot be ignored..when you have 12 states (ALL of which ACORN is involved with) ALL finding hundreds, thousands of illegal voters on behalf of ACORN...there is a stink a mile long, and hence we sneer.

 

Tara

[tibbyl]

The Republican party could always court the potential homesless and disenfranchised voting block themselves.

[nmoira]

 

It also has come out in Ohio that there is a major voter fraud. The democrates got homeless people to go in and register to vote numerous times. One guy registered as much as 1000 times. This was all over the news the past few days.

Please provide a link, particularly regarding "vote numerous times."

[motherofjoy]

Voter fraud? Then let's not forget "politicin' from the pulpit", in the tax exempt atmosphere of nearly every church in the country. Let he without sin throw the first ACORN.

[nmoira]

ACORN works in more than just 20 states.

 

No, for ACORN that is not the case..did you realize that over 90% of all their 'new' registered voters are in the swing states?

So? If it's something that concerns you, you could start or fund an intensive effort to get voters in the states you think the marginalized and disenfranchised are underrepresented. It's entirely within your rights. I wouldn't blink an eye if you avoided the swing states.

 

And that they only targeted 20 states in all..I keep saying it till I'm blue in the face, there is a preponderance of evidence here that cannot be ignored..when you have 12 states (ALL of which ACORN is involved with) ALL finding hundreds, thousands of illegal voters on behalf of ACORN...there is a stink a mile long, and hence we sneer.

Again, supposition on your part. Where are these illegal voters? Where are their votes? You left a number of questions unanswered in the other ACORN thread. I have yet to see you produce any proof for your suppositions. Supposition without proof is nothing; no matter how blue your face gets, it won't make the dots connect without evidence. In this case you're not even providing evidence that the "illegal vote" dot exists. Edited October 14, 2008 by nmoira
typo

[Confuzzled]

Voter fraud? Then let's not forget "politicin' from the pulpit", in the tax exempt atmosphere of nearly every church in the country. Let he without sin throw the first ACORN.

 

Have you been to nearly every church in the country? How do you know this to be true?

 

It's not true of the church I attend. I can't speak for the rest, but I would hazard a guess that there are actually many, many churches that don't use the pulpit for politics. I have attended many different churches and have never heard politics preached even one single time.

 

Kris

[Pammy]

blind people have been (or deceptive intentionally).

 

We are at a crossroads... we will either reap the long-ranging effects of socialism, or maybe choose to take a stand for righteousness. I am afraid it is going to be the former.

[Herding Cats in NC]

Here's a list of requirements for voting absentee in every state. You'll see that in most cases, a newly registered voted cannot simply have an absentee ballot mailed to them.

 

This is true for some states, but several of the states listed as battleground states this year do not have any restrictions. In fact, this website specifically states that WI, VA and OH do not have any requirements for first time voters. That's worth 43 electoral votes right there. Additionally, from this site, it looks like PA, NC, MN & IA don't have any restrictions on first time voters - that's another 53 electoral votes. Oh, and WV & IN both say that first time voters "may" have to provide id.

[nmoira]

blind people have been (or deceptive intentionally).

 

We are at a crossroads... we will either reap the long-ranging effects of socialism, or maybe choose to take a stand for righteousness. I am afraid it is going to be the former.

Yeah, the socialists might come in and start nationalizing banks or something... oh wait, that's already being done.

 

BTW, would you mind clearing something up for me? Who are the socialists?

[nmoira]

This is true for some states, but several of the states listed as battleground states this year do not have any restrictions. In fact, this website specifically states that WI, VA and OH do not have any requirements for first time voters. That's worth 43 electoral votes right there. Additionally, from this site, it looks like PA, NC, MN & IA don't have any restrictions on first time voters - that's another 53 electoral votes. Oh, and WV & IN both say that first time voters "may" have to provide id.

I have time to look at one. If you look at the information that must be submitted to vote absentee by mail in Ohio, you'll see it's not as simple as just sending in your name and address and having a ballot sent your way.

 

I'm not going to argue that US election laws and regulations (and corresponding state laws and regulations) are rational. This is clearly not the case.

[astrid]

blind people have been (or deceptive intentionally).

 

We are at a crossroads... we will either reap the long-ranging effects of socialism, or maybe choose to take a stand for righteousness. I am afraid it is going to be the former.

 

Riiiight. And 2000 and 2004 went swimmingly.

 

astrid

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Riiiight. And 2000 and 2004 went swimmingly.

 

astrid

 

[Pammy]

Yeah, the socialists might come in and start nationalizing banks or something... oh wait, that's already being done.

 

** both party candidates voted for that b/c they felt it would be better than allowing a total economic collapse. I didn't agree with it, but you can't draw the party card on this one.

 

 

BTW, would you mind clearing something up for me? Who are the socialists?

 

It is totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Dem. party has socialist idealogies. They are just going to come to fruition with the most liberal govt. ever.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

It is totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Dem. party has socialist idealogies. They are just going to come to fruition with the most liberal govt. ever.

 

Yeah all us liberal commies are like totally gonna overthrow democracy. :lol:

 

I have a flag outside my house and a red white and blue freakin Christmas tree. I studied American History in college and am the daughter of a Korean War vert. My anniversary is on the 4th July. My daughter is named after a first lady. Yeah, I really want America to turn into a socialist country- you know one where a leader circumvents the country's constitution, writes his own addendums to laws, and takes control of the nations banks. Yeah, that's what I want, sure.

[hornblower]

They are just going to come to fruition with the most liberal govt. ever.

 

Hmmm, you seem to be saying that as if liberal is a bad word. :confused:

 

Once you understand that some people are just as aghast at conservatism as you are about liberalism.... well, maybe then we could actually have a dialogue.

 

- the happy liberal (but not necessarily capital L liberal in Canada....)

[Robin in Tx]

Voter fraud is as old as politics.

 

That was my point. I agree.

[nmoira]

 

It is totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Dem. party has socialist idealogies. They are just going to come to fruition with the most liberal govt. ever.

But what specifically do you mean by socialist? Depending who's doing the speaking, it means different things to different people in the US. Are you talking democratic socialism with programs such as Social Security, Medicare, that sort of thing? Perhaps a universal healthcare system? Or are you talking about a more fundamental shift? And which specific ideologies are you speaking of? As someone who has emigrated from a country with a party openly democratic socialist, I don't see the stark differences between the GOP and the Democratic Party that you seem to.

[astrid]

It is totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Dem. party has socialist idealogies. They are just going to come to fruition with the most liberal govt. ever.

 

It's totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Republican party has racist, self-serving ideologies, and will do ANYTHING to advance their narrow agenda. Their four years in office has resulted in the biggest debt our nation has ever seen, our armed forces bogged down in an unwinnable war, a recession, and economic collapse.

 

Now, I have no intention of debating these allegations with you or anyone else, Pammy. But two can play at the ugly, hate-filled finger-pointing smear game.

 

astrid

[nmoira]

 

Now, I have no intention of debating these allegations with you or anyone else, Pammy. But two can play at the ugly, hate-filled finger-pointing smear game.

Well, I wanna debate -- but not that to be sure. I was kinda hoping that someone might have added some factual posts to this thread while I was out. ;)

[Jennifer3141]

Well, I wanna debate -- but not that to be sure. I was kinda hoping that someone might have added some factual posts to this thread while I was out. ;)

 

Well hope springs eternal doesn't it, my friend??? ;)

 

Jen

[nmoira]

 

Well hope springs eternal doesn't it, my friend??? ;)

I'm a cynical optimist. I pretend to be a cynic (to myself), so I'm not too terribly disappointed when I'm wrong.

[Jennifer3141]

I'm a cynical optimist. I pretend to be a cynic (to myself), so I'm not too terribly disappointed when I'm wrong.

 

:D I've always called myself an, "optimist with realistic cynical leanings."

 

Jen

[Jenny in Atl]

Well, I wanna debate -- but not that to be sure. I was kinda hoping that someone might have added some factual posts to this thread while I was out. ;)

 

Shall I add that McCain spoke at an Acorn event two years ago?

 

Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer of ACORN, said, "It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans. Maybe it is out of desperation that Senator McCain has forgotten that he was for ACORN before he was against ACORN; he was for immigration reform before he was against immigration reform; and he was a maverick before he became erratic. We were thrilled to partner with him to help reform the outdated immigration laws in this country, and were pleased to work closely with him on this issue."

Lewis continued, "We expected Senator McCain to support our efforts to give voice to millions of American's who have never participated in an election before. We are surprised at his efforts to vilify an organization that, until recently, he saw as an ally. Maybe this surprise attack and change of heart is indicative of his state of mind, and the way he would govern."

Senator McCain and his campaign have recently launched a series of coordinated attacks on ACORN, the nation's largest community organization of low-and middle-income families.

Ms. Lewis went on to say that, "We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform."

Senator McCain was joined at the rally by Rep. Kendrick Meek (D-FL), Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart (RFL), leaders from both political parties, immigrant communities, and members of labor, business, and religious organizations.

[astrid]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

astrid

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Shall I add that McCain spoke at an Acorn event two years ago?

 

Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer of ACORN, said, "It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans. Maybe it is out of desperation that Senator McCain has forgotten that he was for ACORN before he was against ACORN; he was for immigration reform before he was against immigration reform; and he was a maverick before he became erratic. We were thrilled to partner with him to help reform the outdated immigration laws in this country, and were pleased to work closely with him on this issue."

Lewis continued, "We expected Senator McCain to support our efforts to give voice to millions of American's who have never participated in an election before. We are surprised at his efforts to vilify an organization that, until recently, he saw as an ally. Maybe this surprise attack and change of heart is indicative of his state of mind, and the way he would govern."

Senator McCain and his campaign have recently launched a series of coordinated attacks on ACORN, the nation's largest community organization of low-and middle-income families.

Ms. Lewis went on to say that, "We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform."

Senator McCain was joined at the rally by Rep. Kendrick Meek (D-FL), Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart (RFL), leaders from both political parties, immigrant communities, and members of labor, business, and religious organizations.

 

Here are links to the video and the original press release.

[dawn of ns]

It is totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Dem. party has socialist idealogies.

 

Forgive me but I had a giggle over this (not you Pammy but the general trend your comment points out that I've noticed). You Americans don't know socialism if you think this is true. In most of the Western democracies the Dem. party would be, at best, middle of the road. Maybe it would have a bit of a lean to the left. But socialist? Only if you're standing so far to the right that anything left of O'Reilly looks socialist. But that's a problem with not understanding where you're standing, not with the Dems.

 

I don't think Americans recognize what an extreme much of their political thought occupies.

[Laura R (FL)]

It's totally ludicrous to not see that the majority of the Republican party has racist, self-serving ideologies, and will do ANYTHING to advance their narrow agenda. Their four years in office has resulted in the biggest debt our nation has ever seen, our armed forces bogged down in an unwinnable war, a recession, and economic collapse.

 

Now, I have no intention of debating these allegations with you or anyone else, Pammy. But two can play at the ugly, hate-filled finger-pointing smear game.

 

astrid

 

Ouch, I just came to read the thread. But as a Republican, that really hurts. I'm not going to debate, either, but I really don't think the majority of Republicans are racists.

[Saille]

I'm unlikely to generalize about party members. Here is what I will say:

 

In 2004, we noticed something in our small Ohio town. Folks were setting up booths at our local festivals and distributing petitions to get an anti-gay marriage amendment on the November ballot. These folks, when local townspeople talked to them, were clearly not from Ohio. They refused to tell us what group they were affiliated with. Eventually, our local courts restricted them to public areas at specific distances from events. Regardless, they got their signatures and found some local schmuck to turn them in. I can tell you that, as an at-home homeschooling mom, I was at most of these events for quite a long time on numerous days, and there was never, ever an avowed Ohioan manning the booths.

 

Having this issue on the ballot brought out an enormous number of voters. Exit polls made it clear that this issue, specifically, is why they voted...but they voted for President while they were there.

 

None of this was illegal...it was, however, a highly organized effort by non-Ohioans to use technicalities and questionable ethics to influence Ohio voting. They knew we couldn't stop them. I'm sure they were mighty proud of themselves for subverting our process.

 

What was potentially illegal was our Secretary of State's decision to do anti-gay marriage radio spots on a variety of radio stations in the run-up to the election. He has affiliations with two mega-churches who've been investigated for tax fraud specifically because they overstep legal limits where elections are concerned, and he has been named in 16 different lawsuits related to the 2004 election. I cannot even begin to describe to you how much I mistrust Blackwell.

 

Here is a well-documented, ten page article, the culmination of four months of research, and very heavily referenced, detailing issues related to 2004 election fraud.

 

Also, here's an article which, although it's on alternet, links to the original news stories in the L.A. Times. It's about the difficulties both parties face when using contractors to assist with voter registration drives, and a past election in which accusations similar to those being leveled about ACORN dogged Republicans.

[LisaNY]

Please provide a link, particularly regarding "vote numerous times."

 

This article is about one man who registered to vote 72 times. Is this one okay?...

 

Ohio Man Bribed to Register to Vote Multiple Times

[lovemyboys]

There is a difference between registering someone to vote and them actually coming out to cast a vote, which is what a "voter" is-- someone who votes. Therefore, it is impossible to have voter fraud before a vote is cast. As I understand it, Acorn flags registrations it sees as potentially fraudulent and, by law, they have to turn them in. Even if Acorn weren't cooperating the way they have been, the fraudulent registrations to the number registered is extremely low.

 

One of the biggest problems unfortunately is that some states, like Ohio, are allowing simultaneous or same-day registration and voting. Since there have been a number of states bringing up problems with fraudulent voter registrations, this could well effect votes that have already been cast by early voting or absentee voting.

 

What galls people is that these registrations are submitted as is, and left to the various precincts to vette the registrations, one by one. So it comes down to a numbers game. Will all the fraudulent registrations be flagged and discarded? Doubtful. If a fraudulent regis. is pulled, how is that vote that's already been cast also get pulled?

 

Acorn flagging suspect registrations? In all the reports and articles I've seen regarding possible voter fraud I haven't seen this mentioned at all. Actually the contrary -- crazy applications submitted like Mickey M. and the Cowboys, Acorn hq as the address on numerous registrations, same signature on dozens.

 

Another problem that's appeared is the Acorn employees who are "helping" with the voting and/or telling people whom to vote for, as well as providing "incentives" when the voter is done casting the right vote.

 

From various reports I've seen and the Acorn spokespeople themselves, Acorn doesn't seem to take responsibility with the quality of their registrations, nor do they seem eager to distance themselves from questionable policies that encourage registration fraud.

 

Although there's been some concerted effort to separate the two Acorn entities, it's pretty clear that they are intermixed in staffing and resources as well as philosophy. There's also been an effort to marginalize Sen. Obama's connections with the organization -- including the nuance of whether certain things were connected to the primaries or the general election, for this presidential campaign.

 

It's also quite suspicious that most of the fraudulent activity has been targetted to key precincts in the battleground and swing states. Your assertion that the overall numbers are low may be correct on a national scale but it's where they are occurring that is at issue. So again, my hunch is that the organization and those who support it are hoping for a numbers game, and hoping that the odds will be in their favor.

 

Not something to be dismissed lightly.

[lovemyboys]

This article is about one man who registered to vote 72 times. Is this one okay?...

 

Ohio Man Bribed to Register to Vote Multiple Times

 

Good post, and sad post, at the same time. :glare:

 

For motherofjoy, no offense, but this post is odd. Many, if not most, churches are verrry careful about taking stances in political races on any level. More to the point, churches and other religious gatherings are anything but a monolithic entity. If you polled churches across the country, I'm sure you'd find their congregations across the entire spectrum of political persuasion.

[Saille]

lovemyboys, ACORN hires canvassers, who go out and get forms filled out. The canvassers themselves appear to be the people committing the fraud. However, ACORN has to turn in every single form, even if they've already identified that it's been filled out by Daffy Duck and would only throw it away. Even if the forms are incomplete. There is a statistical number of fraudulent forms typically submitted, and they check for these. However, in an unprecedented election with extremely high numbers of new registrants, that number will go up. Also, although fraudulent forms may be filled out to pad individual canvassers' numbers and up their pay, a fraudulent registration form does not equal a fraudulent vote. A pollworker is not going to allow Daffy Duck to vote on election day, and forms meant to pad canvasser income do not represent people who would actually show up at the polls and attempt to cast fraudulent votes.

 

Here's a statement issued by Chief ACORN organizer Bertha Lewis. This was made after the raid in Nevada. It should be relatively easy to determine whether these things were done, one would think.

[lovemyboys]

lovemyboys, ACORN hires canvassers, who go out and get forms filled out. The canvassers themselves appear to be the people committing the fraud. However, ACORN has to turn in every single form, even if they've already identified that it's been filled out by Daffy Duck and would only throw it away. Even if the forms are incomplete. There is a statistical number of fraudulent forms typically submitted, and they check for these. However, in an unprecedented election with extremely high numbers of new registrants, that number will go up. Also, although fraudulent forms may be filled out to pad individual canvassers' numbers and up their pay, a fraudulent registration form does not equal a fraudulent vote. A pollworker is not going to allow Daffy Duck to vote on election day, and forms meant to pad canvasser income do not represent people who would actually show up at the polls and attempt to cast fraudulent votes.

 

Here's a statement issued by Chief ACORN organizer Bertha Lewis. This was made after the raid in Nevada. It should be relatively easy to determine whether these things were done, one would think.

 

Saille, as I pointed out in my post, Acorn policies are perpetuating these problems. This is not a new issue for Acorn just in the past few weeks. They have been under investigation in the past, and it's always the "canvassers" or employees who have done wrong but not the organization itself.

 

Of course the Daffy Duck will probably get noticed and pulled. But what about the more plausible forms? And again, the onus is on the pollworkers, many of whom are volunteers and working long hours, to check each and every registration and take note of the bogus ones. As I said in reply to qanda's post, I have seen nothing on Acorn flagging or calling attention to the questionable registrations as they're being handed in. Which makes me wonder if they're not expecting some to go unnoticed.

 

Again, one of the main problems with current voter fraud accusation is that some areas allow for absentee or early/same day voting with registration. If these votes have been cast even as the registrations are being reviewd, how are these votes pulled out of the official count?

[LisaNY]

Well, I wanna debate -- but not that to be sure. I was kinda hoping that someone might have added some factual posts to this thread while I was out. ;)

 

I added that link about multiple voter registrations. That one wasn't okay?

 

I thought you had asked for proof that it was happening. Maybe I'm not following what you wanted.

[nmoira]

This article is about one man who registered to vote 72 times. Is this one okay?...

 

Ohio Man Bribed to Register to Vote Multiple Times

You said there were multiple votes. Registering to vote (or a canvasser submitting fake applications to bolster their numbers) is NOT the same thing as a vote. Not once have I said that there is no fraud with respect to registration. I've merely asked for proof of fraudulent votes.

[nmoira]

I added that link about multiple voter registrations. That one wasn't okay?

 

I thought you had asked for proof that it was happening. Maybe I'm not following what you wanted.

I asked for proof of fraudulent votes. Did the gentleman who registered 72 times intend to vote 72 times? Or even twice? He used the same information each time.

 

From the article you submitted:

 

"Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they'll give me a dollar to sign up," said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

 

 

"The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, 'You are?' I say, 'Yup,' and then they say, 'Can you just sign up again?' " he said.

 

 

Johnson used the same information on all of his registration cards

, and officials say they usually catch and toss out duplicate registrations. But the practice sparks fear that some multiple registrants could provide different information and vote more than once by absentee ballot.

Originally I was reading posts here suggesting that ACORN was in the middle of some heavy duty plans to perpetrate voting fraud. If this is indeed true -- it is the possibly the lamest attempt ever. Multiple duplicate registrations, Mickey Mouse, football players. Goofiness aside, this type of fraud is very difficult to pull off on a large scale. Think about it. For absentee voting, you have to keep track of names, addresses, produce false DL number/SSN (last 4 digits) and/or (depending on the state) false ID (or false proof of residence). The information has to match that in the original application. For voting at the polls, you still have to had produced false DL number/SSN (last 4 digits) or ID (or proof of residence). etc. for the initial application. And you need lots and lots of bodies.

 

Do you have any idea how hard it is for lots of bodies to keep a secret? This is why RNC funded Sproul & Associates method of fraud initially went undetected. Applications were gathered, but only a few were in charge of disposing of them (the ones with people registering as Democrats). But even then, some were merely thrown out instead of shredded.

[Saille]

OK, but there's a long distance between "ACORN needs to alter its practices to end all this nonsense" and "Obama is trying to steal the election using ACORN". Which is what's being alleged by some Republicans, but notably not by any reliable media source.

[LisaNY]

You said there were multiple votes. Registering to vote (or a canvasser submitting fake applications to bolster their numbers) is NOT the same thing as a vote. Not once have I said that there is no fraud with respect to registration. I've merely asked for proof of fraudulent votes.

 

Wait a minute, Moira. I said nothing either way. The OP clearly stated in her post that people were registering to vote numerous times. Nobody said that people were *voting* numerous times - only *registering* numerous times. I simply provided a link that proved this was taking place.

[astrid]

This article is about one man who registered to vote 72 times. Is this one okay?...

 

Ohio Man Bribed to Register to Vote Multiple Times

 

 

Not the bribing part, but you'd be surprised how many voter registration cards come in to my office, and when I go to put them in the computer I find they are already registered. CT hands voter reg. cards out at the DMV so many folks think that when someone hands them a card, they should fill it out and mail it in.

 

Additionally, it's really surprised me how many folks wander into my office wanting to register to vote, under the impression that they must register again EVERY time they vote!

 

But it all boils down to this: you can REGISTER to vote eleventy-billion times, but that doesn't mean you will be ALLOWED TO VOTE more than once!!!!!

 

Similarly, if Mickey Mouse registers to vote, he's not likely to show up at the polls, so that's a mute point.

 

Astrid

[LisaNY]

I asked for proof of fraudulent votes. Did the gentleman who registered 72 times intend to vote 72 times? Or even twice? He used the same information each time.

 

From the article you submitted:

 

"Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they'll give me a dollar to sign up," said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.

 

 

"The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, 'You are?' I say, 'Yup,' and then they say, 'Can you just sign up again?' " he said.

 

 

Johnson used the same information on all of his registration cards

, and officials say they usually catch and toss out duplicate registrations. But the practice sparks fear that some multiple registrants could provide different information and vote more than once by absentee ballot.

Originally I was reading posts here suggesting that ACORN was in the middle of some heavy duty plans to perpetrate voting fraud. If this is indeed true -- it is the possibly the lamest attempt ever. Multiple duplicate registrations, Mickey Mouse, football players. Goofiness aside, this type of fraud is very difficult to pull off on a large scale. Think about it. For absentee voting, you have to keep track of names, addresses, produce false DL number/SSN (last 4 digits) and/or (depending on the state) false ID (or false proof of residence). The information has to match that in the original application. For voting at the polls, you still have to had produced false DL number/SSN (last 4 digits) or ID (or proof of residence). etc. for the initial application. And you need lots and lots of bodies.

 

Do you have any idea how hard it is for lots of bodies to keep a secret? This is why RNC funded Sproul & Associates method of fraud initially went undetected. Applications were gathered, but only a few were in charge of disposing of them (the ones with people registering as Democrats). But even then, some were merely thrown out instead of shredded.

 

Yes, thank goodness it is a difficult thing to do. I answered your other question in my post to you above.

 

I think voter fraud is despicable to the core. Regardless of how "lame" it is, the activities of ACORN should be vehemently opposed by BOTH campaigns.

[astrid]

Ouch, I just came to read the thread. But as a Republican, that really hurts. I'm not going to debate, either, but I really don't think the majority of Republicans are racists.

 

 

EXACTLY my point! As a Democrat, I'm tired of being characterized as a godless, liberal whackjob. It hurts both ways. Painting with a broad brush is never a good idea.

 

astrid

[nmoira]

It also has come out in Ohio that there is a major voter fraud. The democrates got homeless people to go in and register to vote numerous times. One guy registered as much as 1000 times. This was all over the news the past few days.

 

Please provide a link, particularly regarding "vote numerous times."

 

This article is about one man who registered to vote 72 times. Is this one okay?...

 

Ohio Man Bribed to Register to Vote Multiple Times

 

Wait a minute, Moira. I said nothing either way. The OP clearly stated in her post that people were registering to vote numerous times. Nobody said that people were *voting* numerous times - only *registering* numerous times. I simply provided a link that proved this was taking place.

 

I've included the whole sub-thread. I had misread Holly's post. Neither myself, nor anyone else in this thread has questioned that there have been multiple registrations.

[nmoira]

One of the biggest problems unfortunately is that some states, like Ohio, are allowing simultaneous or same-day registration and voting. Since there have been a number of states bringing up problems with fraudulent voter registrations, this could well effect votes that have already been cast by early voting or absentee voting.

Large scale fraud would require many warm bodies as the only way to do same-day registration and voting is in person, and there is only one office per county in which to do this.

 

What galls people is that these registrations are submitted as is, and left to the various precincts to vette the registrations, one by one. So it comes down to a numbers game. Will all the fraudulent registrations be flagged and discarded? Doubtful. If a fraudulent regis. is pulled, how is that vote that's already been cast also get pulled?

ACORN is required in most states to submit all registrations collected.

 

Acorn flagging suspect registrations? In all the reports and articles I've seen regarding possible voter fraud I haven't seen this mentioned at all. Actually the contrary -- crazy applications submitted like Mickey M. and the Cowboys, Acorn hq as the address on numerous registrations, same signature on dozens.

Acorn does flag suspect registrations. I am very interested to see the statistics... I've seem some reports, but nothing I consider credible enough at this point to post.

 

From various reports I've seen and the Acorn spokespeople themselves, Acorn doesn't seem to take responsibility with the quality of their registrations, nor do they seem eager to distance themselves from questionable policies that encourage registration fraud.

ACORN press release.

[nmoira]

 

Saille, as I pointed out in my post, Acorn policies are perpetuating these problems. This is not a new issue for Acorn just in the past few weeks. They have been under investigation in the past, and it's always the "canvassers" or employees who have done wrong but not the organization itself.

Accusations have frequently been made before past elections. These accusations against ACORN turned out to be unfounded during subsequent investigation. With all the money and manpower put on the issue during the Bush administration (and remember, the US Attorney firings scandal centered around the issue of investigation of "voter fraud), only a handful of individuals in the whole country have been found guilty of anything.

[LisaNY]

I've included the whole sub-thread. I had misread Holly's post. Neither myself, nor anyone else in this thread has questioned that there have been multiple registrations.

 

Thanks, Moira. :001_smile:

 

Okay, now that *that's* all cleared up - on to the next roller-coaster ride...

 

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[lovemyboys]

But it all boils down to this: you can REGISTER to vote eleventy-billion times, but that doesn't mean you will be ALLOWED TO VOTE more than once!!!!!

 

Astrid

 

I have a question for you, Astrid. How does this work if people can register and vote in the same day? Since this man is from Ohio, isn't it possible that he's able to vote more than once? I know you're not in Ohio, but I've wondered about this.