A poll about affairs

[DesertBlossom]

From a religious aspect, part of the repentance process is asking forgiveness, not only from God but from those you have wronged, and then doing what it necessary to make things right. Hiding something as serious as sexual sin doesn't make it go away and doesn't mean that it isn't still affecting the marriage. I understand that it's hard to deal with it when it all comes out in the open. And if the cheater isn't repentant or doesn't intend to change, maybe it's easier to just keep hidden. But for true healing to take place (for both parties), I think it needs to come out.

[Crimson Wife]

I agree with this. I feel like I put everything in to my marriage. And if DH wasn investing time and energy into a separate relationship I would want to know, if for no other reason than to be able to pull back emotionally and protect myself.

 

I also hate secrets. Loathe them. Like, I am rarely ever surprised by birthday gifts. I sniff that stuff out easily because I hate surprises. And I couldn't handle the thought of DH having a secret, separate relationship that I didn't know about. Even if it didn't lead to divorce. Even if it was years ago and DH never did it again. I would want to know.

 

Do you think that this attitude will make it less likely or more likely that he'd have a future adulterous encounter? Because from where I'm standing, I think there is a strong probability that it would be the latter. If it happened years ago and he's taken concrete steps to prevent it from happening again, how does your getting all upset over it and pulling back from the marriage improve the situation?

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Yes - I've been feeling this since the topic began.

 

I've never cheated on anyone so this isn't coming from a defensive POV.  But I am not comfortable with the idea that this kind of mistake/character flaw/insert-word-of-choice-here defines you.  

 

 

 

I agree, we all have so many flaws.  One shouldn't define everything about us.

[8circles]

I agree, we all have so many flaws.  One shouldn't define everything about us.

 

I think there are a lot of people who think they are flawless or think their flaws are minor to the other's major.  I'm of the mind that that attitude is highly unhealthy.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I haven't read it all.  From someone who's experienced this, you can say what you want to know beforehand or don't want to know, etc.  In the moments you do find out you are reeling.  Hindsight helps to say, yes, I would want to know.  Most cases, not even friends know, so if they do find out, they really should come tell you, no matter what.  It hurts the friends of the person cheating to find out as well...it affects their trust of them, and how they view them.  Cheating isn't just one person getting hurt, it's the whole circle of people who know.  

 

 

[DesertBlossom]

Do you think that this attitude will make it less likely or more likely that he'd have a future adulterous encounter? Because from where I'm standing, I think there is a strong probability that it would be the latter. If it happened years ago and he's taken concrete steps to prevent it from happening again, how does your getting all upset over it and pulling back from the marriage improve the situation?

 

 

It doesn't matter. That's on him. I'm not going to take blame for a cheating husband. I don't care how bad a marriage is, cheating is never okay. Divorce and move on before you start seeking out new relationships. I just don't want to feel like an a$$ because I'm giving everything to my marriage, only to find out that DH isn't. I'd feel like a fool. Right now, I'd move heaven and earth for my DH an I know he'd do the same for me. If I find out he was a master liar and manipulator and only made me FEEL that way, while cheating behind my back... well, I'd want to know about that.

 

If you read my next post, I think that part of healing requires repentance, which includes asking forgiveness of your spouse. If he was truly repentant, I would be able to forgive and heal and repair our marriage. Even if it was years earlier and it had never happened again, it still needs to come out. If he's hiding an affair (past or present) it's because he doesn't want to get in trouble for it or end it and IMO that means he's still more worried about himself than his wife and marriage.

[DesertBlossom]

On the flip side... if you (general you) had been the cheater, and the affair or ONS had been years prior, would you feel comfortable never telling your spouse about it? How would you justify that?

 

 

I'm the type that walks back into the store to return or pay for a $1 item that I forgot in my cart or I feel weird about it. The guilt from an affair would eat me alive.

 

 

[madteaparty]

It doesn't matter. That's on him. I'm not going to take blame for a cheating husband. I don't care how bad a marriage is, cheating is never okay. Divorce and move on before you start seeking out new relationships. I just don't want to feel like an a$$ because I'm giving everything to my marriage, only to find out that DH isn't. I'd feel like a fool. Right now, I'd move heaven and earth for my DH an I know he'd do the same for me. If I find out he was a master liar and manipulator and only made me FEEL that way, while cheating behind my back... well, I'd want to know about that.

 

If you read my next post, I think that part of healing requires repentance, which includes asking forgiveness of your spouse. If he was truly repentant, I would be able to forgive and heal and repair our marriage. Even if it was years earlier and it had never happened again, it still needs to come out. If he's hiding an affair (past or present) it's because he doesn't want to get in trouble for it or end it and IMO that means he's still more worried about himself than his wife and marriage.

This is a useful post in that it illustrates different ideas of marriage. I cannot imagine living that way, for example. I will give into my marriage excatly as much as I want to give, not some sort of measured quid pro quo. I think that's a little bit manipulating actually. I have found out, the hard way, that martyrdom is not particularly valued ;) Edited August 15, 2016 by madteaparty

[amy g.]

On the flip side... if you (general you) had been the cheater, and the affair or ONS had been years prior, would you feel comfortable never telling your spouse about it? How would you justify that?

 

 

I'm the type that walks back into the store to return or pay for a $1 item that I forgot in my cart or I feel weird about it. The guilt from an affair would eat me alive.

I have thought about this. If I had a ONS, I would take it to the grave. I would never tell my husband or anyone else.

 

But for myself, if he did the same, I would want to know.

[madteaparty]

On the flip side... if you (general you) had been the cheater, and the affair or ONS had been years prior, would you feel comfortable never telling your spouse about it? How would you justify that?

 

 

I'm the type that walks back into the store to return or pay for a $1 item that I forgot in my cart or I feel weird about it. The guilt from an affair would eat me alive.

So you'd unburden yourself on your spouse then, mainly to relieve the immense guilt. Is that fair?

[FaithManor]

I would tell. I made a promise before we married that if we did marry I would not keep secrets. His parents had huge secrets from each other and their marriage was a disaster that had huge negative consequences to the kids. So I would feel that it would be a second betrayal to keep it from him.

 

That said. It is inconceivable. I have reeled in my big kahuna and dealing with him is enough, LOL. The last thing I need in my life is another man to juggle. No thanks!

 

And I am spoiled rotten by dh - he is simply the best - so it would be the dumbest thing I could possibly ever imagine doing. No just ni. Yuck.

[DesertBlossom]

This is a useful post in that it illustrates different ideas of marriage. I cannot imagine living that way, for example. I will give into my marriage excatly as much as I want to give, not some sort of measured quid pro quo. I think that's a little bit manipulating actually. I have found out, the hard way, that martyrdom is not particularly valued ;)

 

I don't know how it's manipulative to give everything to your marriage while also expecting your spouse to do the same. I've either not explained myself well or you've misunderstood what I wrote.

 

 

If we were talking about a friendship or a relationship where it came out the friend was lying or being deceitful, the advice would be to set boundaries and protect oneself.  I don't know how this is different for a marriage. And I don't believe you can compartmentalize something as serious as infidelity.  It will affect other aspects of your marriage, even if it's not apparent that's why.

[DesertBlossom]

So you'd unburden yourself on your spouse then, mainly to relieve the immense guilt. Is that fair?

 

I'd feel guilty because DH deserves my full fidelity and honesty. Cheating on him is being dishonest in our relationship. Keeping that secret is only adding to the lies. And even though there's a possibility my marriage might blow up and DH leave me over it, he deserves honesty. Hiding a secret like infidelity isn't exactly doing him any favors. And because I do love DH, I would feel compelled to be open and honest with him, even when it's hard.

[Bluegoat]

It's not that women think their marriages are great, and their husband just does a little cheating,

 

It's men themselves....they say "my marriage is great" but they cheat.

 

I realize that you are responding to a specific point made by someone who is speaking about her personal truth.....but RESEARCH that speaks in generalities is what suggests that men who are inclined to cheat, cheat in marriages that they perceive as not lacking in any way.

 

I suspect the reason for this is that women are more likely to see the cheating as being somehow related to their marriage, and men see it as something totally seperate, they compartmentalize.  My relationship with my spouse here, work here, and this sexual encounter is here, and one isn't about the other.

[Guest]

  My relationship with my spouse here, work here, and this sexual encounter is here, and one isn't about the other.

 

That's basically what the woman I cited earlier (the art of manliness podcast interview) says some people go around thinking like. But of course they are aware that one very much has to do with the other to their family....so it's trouble all the way around.

 

And that men are more likely to think this way, while women are more likely to see most things they do as having something to do with their family. Including affairs. So women cheat (generally) when there is a problem in the marriage and men cheat (generally) because they can.

 

And this is leaving out wholesale, of course, completely narcissistic sociopaths who don't CARE if they hurt their spouse. That's a whole other deal, and dynamic.

[Murphy101]

Seriously. Who are these women/men who don't want to know.

 

Edited to add.....to be clear I am not asking if you would ant to know so you could promptly divorce the cheater. The question is would you want to know.

I suspect those who say they don't want to know probably already do know on some level but what they really mean is they do not want to confront it. Especially socially/publicly.

[8circles]

I suspect those who say they don't want to know probably already do know on some level but what they really mean is they do not want to confront it. Especially socially/publicly.

 

OH good grief.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I suspect those who say they don't want to know probably already do know on some level but what they really mean is they do not want to confront it. Especially socially/publicly.

 

Really? That is really offensive. Wow.

[Guest]

I suspect those who say they don't want to know probably already do know on some level but what they really mean is they do not want to confront it. Especially socially/publicly.

Or you could just believe the things they said about themselves.

[Murphy101]

Really? That is really offensive. Wow.

Why is that offensive?

 

I have no negativity towards someone who feels that way. I don't think they are stupid or foolish or anything else. I can understand why anyone might feel that way about a lot of marriage issues. Because marriage in general is private and most certainly wanting to keep marriage problems private is not a bad idea either. And I can understand not wanting to confront such an issue even if it were true for lots of reasons.

 

And of course, maybe they just don't think their spouse is cheating or have other reasons for not wanting to know even if the spouse is, which is also perfectly acceptable.

[zoobie]

OH good grief.

On the page before this, you discussed not wanting to deal with the social repercussions and having friends and acquaintances judge whether you stayed or left. Isn't that the same thing Martha's talking about?

[Murphy101]

lol

 

Yep, concerned about my social image...will I ever be invited to parties again ?!

What? I don't give a flip about social image. Wanting to keep marriage stuff private to the marriage has nothing to do with being concerned about social image. Sure it can, but I don't think I would presume that it does.

[HRAAB]

Why is that offensive?

 

I have no negativity towards someone who feels that way. I don't think they are stupid or foolish or anything else. I can understand why anyone might feel that way about a lot of marriage issues. Because marriage in general is private and most certainly wanting to keep marriage problems private is not a bad idea either. And I can understand not wanting to confront such an issue even if it were true for lots of reasons.

 

And of course, maybe they just don't think their spouse is cheating or have other reasons for not wanting to know even if the spouse is, which is also perfectly acceptable.

 

I think I misread you.  I took you to mean the women that say they don't want to know already know that their spouses are cheating and don't want to have to confront it.

 

I was one who said I wasn't sure if I would want to know.  Honestly, the thought of my dh having an affair doesn't even compute for me barring a mental disorder or alien abduction.  It goes against everything he stands for and believes in.  But let's say he flipped, had a crisis of some kind - using my imagination here - I truly don't know that I would want to find out at this point.  Not to sound arrogant, but I hold the cards.  I've been the wife for 31 years, I'm not going to lose my children, my girls would side with me.  While his family wouldn't disown him, they'd be on my side.  Yes, I can say that with confidence.  This is assuming that nothing else changed other than him developing another personality.  Financially I think I would come out okay.  I also know his family would step in to help in that regard.  Our friends would strongly disapprove of his behavior.  And he'd be harder on himself that any priest in the confessional.  Not that there are any winners in such a situation, but I would be in a better position than him.

 

It's such an odd scenario to try and imagine, but I really did try to put myself in that place.  I wouldn't divorce him over an affair unless he initiated it.  I do have my line in the sand, but it's not a one time affair/one night stand.  A serial cheater would be different.  I would not toss in all the great, wonderful years for a one time mistake.  So, at this point in my life, I'm not sure that I would want to be burdened with the information.  If that's not living in reality, so be it.

 

After all that, I would probably be one of those women that knows.  He's a lousy liar, has no social life outside of his family, never travels.  If something was up, I'd probably already know.  For me, this is just a big thought experiment. No cheating in my life that I'm aware of.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Ishki

[TravelingChris]

I voted that I would want to know and its because it would be such a personality change and sudden change of his beliefs that I would be worried about under things like whether he was ill in some way.  We have been married almost 31 years and all my children are adults now so no custody issues.  But I know my children would be very upset if we divorced.  He is such a loving husband that I have a hard time imagining him doing anything like this.  He also has no times where he is gone that I don't know where he is and have outside confirmation of so he has no way to have an affair.  

 

If he has a ONS some long time ago, I would not want to know.

[Murphy101]

You might need to be a bit clearer then, because 'confront it socially' sounds like suggesting my 'kind of woman' doesn't want to know b/c she's worried about social repercussions.

I was plenty clear.

 

"Confront is socially" could mean anything and I left it that way for just that reason.

 

She does not want to hear from her mother about she knew he wasn't the right guy all these years.

She doesn't want to deal with looks of pity at church or her kids hearing crap at school.

She isn't prepared or interested in dealing with divorce for whatever reason.

She is worried that social attitudes and pressures outside her marriage could cause further damage to it, making future healing for either of them harder or even impossible.

 

And so what the hell what if she is worried about social repercussions? Humans are social creatures and even people who don't normally care about such things aren't exactly going to eagerly look forward to the hot mess of a marriage in crisis being publicly debated and speculated among everyone they know.

 

Regardless of what a woman's reasons are for not wanting to socially confront a marriage problem, I can understand that aspect of things and wouldn't fault her for it in the least.

[8circles]

On the page before this, you discussed not wanting to deal with the social repercussions and having friends and acquaintances judge whether you stayed or left. Isn't that the same thing Martha's talking about?

 

{sigh} Yes, I wouldn't want to go through the social repercussions and it would make it *more* difficult.  But that isn't *why* I wouldn't want to know.  

 

I honestly can't keep explaining it anymore.  I will probably not post about it again.

[8circles]

I think I misread you.  I took you to mean the women that say they don't want to know already know that their spouses are cheating and don't want to have to confront it.

 

 

You took it that way because that's what she said.

 

I suspect those who say they don't want to know probably already do know on some level but what they really mean is they do not want to confront it. Especially socially/publicly.

 

I don't want to know if my DH is cheating.  I don't have any suspicion that he is now cheating or has ever cheated on me.  

[Crimson Wife]

 

If you read my next post, I think that part of healing requires repentance, which includes asking forgiveness of your spouse. If he was truly repentant, I would be able to forgive and heal and repair our marriage. Even if it was years earlier and it had never happened again, it still needs to come out. If he's hiding an affair (past or present) it's because he doesn't want to get in trouble for it or end it and IMO that means he's still more worried about himself than his wife and marriage.

 

I believe that a sinner has to repent to GOD.

 

Whether part of the atonement process also includes confessing to the spouse would be something to discuss with a priest/minister/spiritual advisor and also with a licensed marriage counselor/therapist in an individual session.

[Scarlett]

I believe that a sinner has to repent to GOD.

 

Whether part of the atonement process also includes confessing to the spouse would be something to discuss with a priest/minister/spiritual advisor and also with a licensed marriage counselor/therapist in an individual session.

What does a marriage counselor have to do with the atonement process?

[goldberry]

I have thought about this. If I had a ONS, I would take it to the grave. I would never tell my husband or anyone else.

 

But for myself, if he did the same, I would want to know.

 

Now that's an interesting one!  Why would you feel it was best for you not to tell, but would want him to tell?

[zoobie]

{sigh} Yes, I wouldn't want to go through the social repercussions and it would make it *more* difficult. But that isn't *why* I wouldn't want to know.

 

I honestly can't keep explaining it anymore. I will probably not post about it again.

Why? This is an interesting discussion. The social implications of major life events are a factor for everyone to some extent. Normal people don't live in a vacuum. There are fields of study devoted to social sciences. I'm puzzled why acknowledging the potential negative social repercussions would be seen as an offensive. Simply being married at all means you're accepting some social morés as important. If we consider religion as part of "social," that could weigh as an even greater factor. In sociology, there are nested systems diagrams of concentric circles. Self in the center, marriage, immediate family, extended family, community (religion usually falls here), larger society, government... Each circle potentially would feel the ripples from a disruption in the center. Each person's diagram looks different because we value those ecosystems differently. The social implications can be very important. There's nothing offensive in acknowledging that humans are social creatures.

[8circles]

Why? This is an interesting discussion. The social implications of major life events are a factor for everyone to some extent. Normal people don't live in a vacuum. There are fields of study devoted to social sciences. I'm puzzled why acknowledging the potential negative social repercussions would be seen as an offensive. Simply being married at all means you're accepting some social morés as important. If we consider religion as part of "social," that could weigh as an even greater factor. In sociology, there are nested systems diagrams of concentric circles. Self in the center, marriage, immediate family, extended family, community (religion usually falls here), larger society, government... Each circle potentially would feel the ripples from a disruption in the center. Each person's diagram looks different because we value those ecosystems differently. The social implications can be very important. There's nothing offensive in acknowledging that humans are social creatures.

 

I didn't say that was offensive.  I've posted about what was offensive about her comment.

 

I don't even know how this relates to what I've said.  You are clearly very interested in this social aspect.  I simply said that the reason why I don't want to know is not that reason. 

[Guest]

It's offensive because several people have give several personal reasons as to why they don't want someone to tell them they think their spouse is cheating on them, and along about page five or six, someone comes along and says "cause they know their husband is cheating on them, and they don't want to face the trutht."

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

What does a marriage counselor have to do with the atonement process?

 

A licensed therapist/counselor can provide advice on whether informing the spouse would help or hurt the client's situation. That's the type of thing they have professional training on.

[Scarlett]

A licensed therapist/counselor can provide advice on whether informing the spouse would help or hurt the client's situation. That's the type of thing they have professional training on.

I can't see that working for me. A licensed therapist would not be trained on how to guide me spiritually. Maybe it would work for some.

[Bluegoat]

I can't see that working for me. A licensed therapist would not be trained on how to guide me spiritually. Maybe it would work for some.

 

I'd think about it as similar to addiction.  While groups like AA want youto apologize to people you have hurt, they do not want you to go there if it will cause more hurt - that is really just selfish, it's not a real apology or an atonement, in spiritual terms. 

 

As an example - someone I know had a husband who was an addict and had an affair with someone who was underage.  The parents and child decided not to pursue it legally.  The addict apologized to his (former) wife.  He did not approach the family or the young women - not because he didn't want to atone, or turn his life around, but because it would simply have hurt them more.

 

 

For someone who was unsure what to do in a particular instance, talking to someone else with some insight into other people's likely response, and your own deeper motivations, would be helpful.