Is it possible for science to be enjoyable?

[Janeway]

My children HATE science. They hate it with a passion. My entire family and my husband's family are all in STEM or close to. But my children hate hate hate hate science. My 14 yr old is begging me to not make him do science for high school. He hates it to no end. My 12 yr old likes to watch science shows on TV, but read or do any science at all, no way!!!! They will NOT do science.

 

I feel like I am searching for the most interesting and then the most quick, and then the most-able-to-force-them-to-do-it science. We are coming off of two years of no science. Ever since my strong willed slacker 12 yr old has been home, I do not have any time at all for the 14 yr old. 90% of my energy goes in to the 12 yr old and what little I have left, which is sucking the life out of me, I breastfeed and take care of the entire rest of the kids, the house, pay bills, clean, etc. 

 

I just have this huge knot inside me and feel like screaming over this situation. I home schooled to have freedom and so they can have endless opportunities to learn. And instead, it has become a circus. How much can I beg, plead, and entertain the 12 yr old in to anything at all what so ever and how can I salvage my 14 yr old in the couple minutes a day I have left for him?

 

I really want them to like science. I am so frustrated!!!!!!!!! I have NO clue at all what to do!

 

Also, they cannot do anything together at all. They hate each other and will not work together. They cannot be in the same room as each other without huge fights breaking out. 12 yr old seems to pride himself on being a pest so he will follow 14 yr old from room to room to tell him how fat he is or whatever else. He will go in to 14 yr olds room and shut off the lights and whisper names at him. You get the idea. Otherwise, I would try some sort of science together, but I suspect they would explode the house.

[katilac]

What types of science have you used in the past? Give specific texts if you can. 

 

As far as the other issue, which is really more important, you cannot allow the 12-yr-old to control the day. That's unfair to his brother. 

 

I would require them to be in different parts of the house until you get the bullying under control (and that's what it is, bullying, not pestering). And I would allot so much time to working with each of them. If you don't get a reasonable amount of work done, then there's a consequence. The consequence is whatever matters to each child. If 12-yr-old loves ballet, then he doesn't go to ballet lessons on the days that he doesn't work or the days when he bullies his brother or otherwise acts obnoxiously. 

 

If I couldn't make that work, I'd send him back to school. 

[hornblower]

yeah, the bullying is not ok. I'd prioritize that over everything else. If it's a choice between learning empathy & compassion & getting along  v. learning  the 1st law of thermodynamics, thermodynamics loses. 


What have you been doing for science? What is it about science they don't like? 

[Lanny]

Science is very important. They would not graduate from a Public High School in Texas (and I hope in all of the other states) without Science.  Why don't they like it? Do you and your DH discuss things involving Science?  My wife and I are "into" NASA and the first 9th grade course DD finished was Biology. This morning, I ordered the Chemistry textbook and the Chemistry "Kit" for her.  I remember, when she was in Middle School, one year we had to scramble a couple of times, to find things she needed for Science experiments, but I think they are a lot of fun.  Write down what you think is going to happen and then document what actually happened.

 

I would try to ask them (when they are separated into different rooms and are calm) why they do not like Science and what you can do to make it more interesting and more enjoyable for them.

 

Khan Academy?  

 

They may not go into a STEM career, but Science is something educated people need to know something about and it is something that any good university will expect to see on a High School Transcript.

[EKS]

First of all, when I have (had) problems like these, I found it helpful to determine exactly what the problem was.

 

From you post it seems that the core of the problem is behavior.  That needs to be fixed first before you get to science (I realize that this is easier said than done.)

 

As for science, or any distasteful subject, with my kids I always tried to make it as painless as possible.  For us that would mean that we would read and discuss the text together, they would do any problems or comprehension questions orally (with a small whiteboard as necessary), and that I would supplement with videos and books that I was pretty sure my kids would find interesting.  And, specific to science, we would do labs together.   I would not hand them a text and a lab kit and tell them to teach themselves.

 

But once you get the behavior issues sorted out, you need to really analyze what it is about science that your kids don't like.  Then either eliminate that issue or try to make it as palatable as possible. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I agree that addressing the bullying needs to take priority.  It is NOT OKAY to treat your family worse than you would treat a stranger.

 

That said, your history-lover 14 year old might like the Pacworks sciences.  (In high school, science is not optional.  Check likely colleges, but he'll probably need 3 to 4 sciences with labs.)  They take more of a story approach.  Here is a sample of Biology:

 

http://www.timberdoodle.com/Principles_Theories_Precepts_of_Biology_p/570-biology.htm

 

The timberdoodle website also pairs that with a Biology 101 DVD.  That might work for you.

 

(For out of the box stuff, I like to check what Timberdoodle offers.  They have some neat stuff.)

 

Your history lover might also like the science offerings at Guesthollow:  http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/curriculum.html#science

[Janeway]

We have tried everything. On the bullying, they are not allowed in the same room as each other during the school day. We even give 12 yr old first pick. But he follows 14 yr old around and is sneaky. We are working on some military style heavy handed discipline when we start the new school year. And we are not paying for dance for the fall unless he completes every single thing, every single day, for the four weeks before school starts. And he will be getting several times the work he got before.

 

As far as the older child goes, we tried outsourcing last year, but the book was online and he says he hates online books. He didn't do the homework at all as a result. We had to give up. This year, I bought Science Shepherd. I really like the book, but now I think it was a mistake. It is quite advance and he refuses to do the problems. I tried to adapt it. I read it and then I teach him it. He is still supposed to read also. But he does not. I get out my dry erase markers in many colors and try to explain concepts there, but he hates it. I purchased Great Courses Plus and told him he could pick any science or engineering topic there, he hated everything. Someone gave me their Apologia Physical Science book, he rejected that too, stating he would rather deal with the biology book. Then he came back to me last night and wanted to have a serious sit down talk. During this time, he explained again how he hates science and never wants to do it or have anything to do with it.

[regentrude]

As far as the older child goes, we tried outsourcing last year, but the book was online and he says he hates online books. He didn't do the homework at all as a result. We had to give up. This year, I bought Science Shepherd. I really like the book, but now I think it was a mistake. It is quite advance and he refuses to do the problems. I tried to adapt it. I read it and then I teach him it. He is still supposed to read also. But he does not. I get out my dry erase markers in many colors and try to explain concepts there, but he hates it. I purchased Great Courses Plus and told him he could pick any science or engineering topic there, he hated everything. Someone gave me their Apologia Physical Science book, he rejected that too, stating he would rather deal with the biology book. Then he came back to me last night and wanted to have a serious sit down talk. During this time, he explained again how he hates science and never wants to do it or have anything to do with it.

 

On teh bolded: so how does he get away with simply refusing to do his work? What consequences happen?

I consider this the fundamental problem, and not the science per se. 

 

I get that it is desirable to make science enjoyable, but being bullied into jumping from curriculum to curriculum by a 14 year old who refuses to cooperate seems to me an underlying issue that needs to be solved. Without addressing the behavior, I don't think there will be a science curriculum that magically works.

Edited July 7, 2016 by regentrude

[Arcadia]

Go to a used bookstore, let your 14 year old pick a high school science textbook and make him do it. Hewitts conceptual physics isn't hard. Suchocki's Conceptual chemistry isn't hard either if you are looking at just getting a science subject done. Both have labs corresponding to the books.

 

Put your 12 year old in school for a year if need be so that you can concentrate on making your 14 year old do as much of his work as possible.

 

There are subjects my kids have no love for. They know they will still need to check that box if it is required.

 

If your extended family is mostly in STEM, your kids might feel that the bar is set high. Some kids don't mind but some kids might feel defeated, like they are the outliers in the extended family.

[AK_Mom4]

Most colleges require 3 years of science (but it does vary) and if college is in his future, it is going to have to happen.

 

Perhaps this is something you could look at out sourcing for the 14yo?   DD15 does her band classes at the local high school, but all of her academic subjects at home.  Is doing a single course there an option where you are?  Or maybe at a private school?  An additional advantage of outsourcing would be to remove the 14yo from the toxic environment being created with the homeschool and give him a place to shine on his own.

 

DD15 is not a big science fan - she would have told you she HATES it up until this last year.  Doing a Biology course with lots of dissections has moved her into from HATE to Dislike.  But she knows it has to be done.

[wendyroo]

We have tried everything. On the bullying, they are not allowed in the same room as each other during the school day. We even give 12 yr old first pick. But he follows 14 yr old around and is sneaky.

 

I'm confused.  Isn't the 12 year old the one doing the bullying?  Why would he get first dibs on a room?

 

Take this with a grain of salt since my kids are all younger, but I would, within reason, let the 14 year move about freely and put the onus on the 12 year old to make sure he is not in the same room as his brother.  Clearly it will be annoying to have to stop what he is doing to relocate when his brother comes in, but that is a natural consequence of bullying; when there is a restraining order in place the police don't divide the world in half and tell the victim to just avoid the perpetrator's half.

 

Wendy

[swimmermom3]

I am going to gently suggest that you seek family counseling.  This isn't about science.

 

You have five children with the youngest still a baby, right?  This has to be a very stressful situation for you and to be honest, it looks like the older children are taking advantage of your divided attention. It would be much easier on all of you as a family to work on this now and not later.

 

:grouphug:

[EKS]

I suspect that there is more to this story (meaning that things are more complicated) than has been presented on this thread.  Forgive me if there is a backstory that I am not remembering.

 

However, in our house, homeschooling is (was) a privilege.  I would not homeschool children whose behavior towards me, school, or each other was this terrible.  Frankly, I'd enroll both of them in school.

Edited July 7, 2016 by EKS

[Janeway]

I am going to gently suggest that you seek family counseling.  This isn't about science.

 

You have five children with the youngest still a baby, right?  This has to be a very stressful situation for you and to be honest, it looks like the older children are taking advantage of your divided attention. It would be much easier on all of you as a family to work on this now and not later.

 

:grouphug:

The oldest has Aspergers so I think the younger one likes to get a rise out of him.

[Storygirl]

Students on the autism spectrum sometimes have trouble with reading comprehension. If that is the case for your son, it would make sense for science to be difficult for him, especially if he is expected to learn on his own from textbooks. If his evaluation results are a few years old, you might consider updating them. The public school must evaluate homeschoolers (for free) if a learning disability is suspected. Have you talked with the school before? Getting evaluations from them might give you some new ideas about how to approach educating your son, because they can tell you what kind of help he would receive if he were enrolled, and you can implement some of it at home.

 

To be honest, I agree with the poster who suggested enrolling them in school. (I enrolled my own children this past year after trying for a long time to make homeschooling work, and it was an excruciating decision but a positive one, overall).

Edited July 8, 2016 by Storygirl

[justasque]

This book is really great for learning how to handle sibling conflict.

 

I would outsource science for the fourteen-year-old and/or the twelve-year-old to some kind of in-person small group with a firm-but-pleasant teacher and a group of nice-but-hard-working peers.  For that to be successful, you will have to provide structure and support at home so they can get their homework done, which will be a challenge, but likely easier than having to provide the entire teaching and structure yourself.

 

If the twelve-year-old is trying to get a rise out of his brother because he is not getting enough stimulation at home, I'd think seriously about putting him in a school setting, where he can have more academic challenge, more time with peers, and more structure as he goes through the sometimes difficult middle school years.  NOT as a punishment or failure on anyone's part, but as an academic environment that may be better suited to his needs.

[goldberry]

Had to pop in to comment, because I just posted the other thread about my science loving daughter and how we don't have enough English to make a decent course description for the last two years.  She hates both English and History.  We did manage to do the bare minimum with History, just enough to check it off. We're in trouble with English.  We have Math and Science credits out the wazoo!

 

No advice really, but just that sometimes, even with education, "the heart wants what the heart wants"! :)

Edited July 8, 2016 by goldberry

[MomatHWTK]

If your 12 year old hasn't been evaluated it is time. Tormenting someone for pleasure speaks to some serious executive function issues at least. 

 

For my Aspie, I explain the legal requirements and get his agreement to do what is necessary to keep from being truant and having to go to P.S. I don't do this for every subject, just the most hated ones. Negatives are amplified for Aspies, so the more he dwells on the dislike the worse it will become. 

 

Figure out what is going on with the 12 y.o. though. That behavior is not OK and cannot be allowed- for his sake and the sake of his victim.