As A Poor Kid From The Rust Belt (article)

[SarahW]

As a Poor Kid From the Rust Belt, Yale Law School Brought Me Face to Face with Radical Inequality

 

 

As someone else from the Rust Belt, from a family not really into higher education, I really identify with this guy.

 

A few things stick out to me:

 

1) Not getting the form filled out by the Dean. Yes. You don't ask superiors for favors unless you have a personal rapport with them. That would be offensive. That would be rude. Now, I theoretically understand how the conversation should go, "Hi, I'm a student in major ABCD, mostly I've done X with Prof. Y. I'm now applying to Stanford for program Z and they request you fill out this form for my application package. Thank you so much." I'm sure J.D. knows that now too. But who teaches poor, blue collar kids these things?

 

2) Expensive school is cheaper than cheaper school. Yes. My parents only saw the price tag. The local CC had a price tag they could understand. That's where they went (of course). Who did I think I was thinking of a school that would cost more than half my dad's annual salary? Rich or something?

 

3) Working a menial job to pay moving expense and paying the (even greatly reduced) school fee. Of course. Who else would pay for it?

 

4) Cocktail parties and networking. Yeah. They're like something out of Czarist Russia. Your worth determined by how well you can balance your crumby cookie on your tea saucer so you have a hand free to shake hands with someone wondering if you're someone worth knowing. Madness.

 

5) Becoming an elite. Oh goodness, yes. In my case it's worse, because the elites aren't just liberal democrats, they're godless brainwashers of the New World Order of atheism and humanism. Trying to carve out a place where I could become "me" without becoming "them" was fraught and ultimately self-defeating.

 

6) Not liking Cracker Barrel anymore. Well, I guess I never liked it anyways. But yes, I'm a bit of a food snob. Maybe I was always a nascent food snob and stepping outside my native habitat allowed me to explore and embrace it. But whoever thought broken Ritz crackers would make a nice crumb topping? And then charge me $10 for it?

 

7) Most of all, the point that the Ivy League is perfectly diverse, except by income. As a white person, I struggle to understand the full experiences and ramifications of things which fall under the description "institutional racism," but as a poor girl from the rust belt, I feel a bit of it when I mix in "high" educational company. The subtle undercurrent of not taking my presence seriously, the surprise that accompanies the evidence of my competence, the shock that I don't know basic things of how "the system" works, the exasperation with my lack of "soft skills" (fit for Czarist Russia parties). It all telegraphs "we do not welcome people like you" which, like the author says, is impossible to quantify how it filters down to Machineville, Midwestland, but there's no doubt that it does.

 

I'm interested in reading the book. Though I feel I already know what it says....

[Carol in Cal.]

My husband is in exactly the same boat.

 

He has, of all things, journeyman papers from a coke factory.  You don't get much more rust belt than that.

[Arcadia]

Your point (4) and (7) reminds me of the upper middle class thread in chat. Where wealth alone does not define the upper class.

[Acorn]

So true. I managed undergrad though but couldn't figure out the system for grad school.

[Carol in Cal.]

So true. I managed undergrad though but couldn't figure out the system for grad school.

Ha. It didn't even occur to me to consider grad school until I was a senior, and I never did pursue it.

 

But my kid has gotten the benefit of my learning, LOL, and is geared toward at least a master's degree.

 

I like to see that kind of familial progress!

[TechWife]

Interesting, I'm putting this on my reading list. I'm a bit confused by some of his statements and want to learn more. My husband and I are from blue collar families. He is from rural Illinois and I have a combination of city and rural Georgia living in my upbringing.  We are now solidly in what the author calls "professional" class. I particularly don't understand where he's going with this: 

 

 

 

Though we sing the praises of social mobility, it has its down- sides. The term necessarily implies a sort of movement—to a theoretically better life, yes, but also away from something. And you can’t always control the parts of your old life from which you drift. In the past few years, I’ve vacationed in Panama and England. I’ve bought my groceries at Whole Foods. I’ve watched orchestral concerts. I’ve tried to break my addiction to “refined processed sugars†(a term that includes at least one too many words). I’ve worried about racial prejudice in my own family and friends.

 

 

None of these things are bad on their own. In fact, most of them are good—visiting England was a childhood dream; eating less sugar improves health. At the same time, they’ve shown me that social mobility isn’t just about money and economics, it’s about a lifestyle change. The wealthy and the powerful aren’t just wealthy and powerful; they follow a different set of norms and mores. When you go from working-class to professional-class, almost everything about your old life becomes unfashionable at best or unhealthy at worst. At no time was this more obvious than the first (and last) time I took a Yale friend to Cracker Barrel. In my youth, it was the height of fine dining—my grandma’s and my favorite restaurant. With Yale friends, it was a greasy public health crisis.

 

We all make lifestyle choices and the author could make different lifestyle choices if he wanted to. He's the one who thinks he shouldn't take his Yale friends to Cracker Barrel. What's that about? Isn't that snobbish on his part? Personally, I can eat in award winning restaurants if I want to, but I don't - I go to Cracker Barrel because they have great blackberry pancakes. If my friends are offended by my choice, they don't have to join me, KWIM. But, they're missing out on some great pancakes and some decent fried chicken, too. He's the one who has decided his former life is unfashionable. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I'm not sure where the author is, either. If he thinks the changes he made are the "down side" of social mobility, then why did he make them? I think Whole Food is ridiculous - I choose not to shop there, the author doesn't have to, either. I'm not sure where I'm going with this because I'm not sure where he's going. It's making me want to read more. 

 

ETA: I didn't even know grad school existed until well into my university years. I'm just now starting to think about going myself, 27 years after my college graduation. My husband is thinking of starting on his PhD. 

Edited June 30, 2016 by TechWife

[6packofun]

This looks very interesting.  My husband grew up in a Southern Ohio town and we met at Ohio State.  :)  I think BOTH of us were intimidated by the sheer size of that place!  lol  Sorry, rambling...thanks for sharing, we will be checking this out.

[ErinE]

. 

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by ErinE

[Bluegoat]

Interesting, I'm putting this on my reading list. I'm a bit confused by some of his statements and want to learn more. My husband and I are from blue collar families. He is from rural Illinois and I have a combination of city and rural Georgia living in my upbringing.  We are now solidly in what the author calls "professional" class. I particularly don't understand where he's going with this: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We all make lifestyle choices and the author could make different lifestyle choices if he wanted to. He's the one who thinks he shouldn't take his Yale friends to Cracker Barrel. What's that about? Isn't that snobbish on his part? Personally, I can eat in award winning restaurants if I want to, but I don't - I go to Cracker Barrel because they have great blackberry pancakes. If my friends are offended by my choice, they don't have to join me, KWIM. But, they're missing out on some great pancakes and some decent fried chicken, too. He's the one who has decided his current life is unfashionable. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I'm not sure where the author is, either. If he thinks the changes he made are the "down side" of social mobility, then why did he make them? I think Whole Food is ridiculous - I choose not to shop there, the author doesn't have to, either. I'm not sure where I'm going with this because I'm not sure where he's going. It's making me want to read more. 

 

ETA: I didn't even know grad school existed until well into my university years. I'm just now starting to think about going myself, 27 years after my college graduation. My husband is thinking of starting on his PhD. 

 

I don't think it is just about choices.  Changing your perspective can make the things you used to value, or that your family values, and move you away from them.  When you realize what well cooked food is like, you may just not be able to enjoy poorly cooked food the same way.  When you realize the implications of a particular hobby or product, it may no longer be something you are ethically comfortable with.  You may have a broader perspective on politics, or the arts, which makes what you thought and did before seem trite or ugly.

 

But you have then created a space between where you are now and where you were, some of your childhood memories and experiences, and with your loved ones.  And people can't really just pretend that space is not there - they might do so in a way that other's can't see it, but you would still know yourself, and feel that distance.  In some instances, like opinions on politics or ideas, it could be difficult not to see people you had loved and respected in a really different light.

 

It's a phenomena that is pretty commonly described by people in that kind of situation.

[TravelingChris]

I like whole Foods.  It isn't my main grocery store- that is either the commissary or Publix but we like to go to WHole Foods too.  I got really delicious peaches from our county this week from them.  I can't get that at either Publix or the commissary.

 

My dh's family never really understood the choices dh made with his life.  They understood and were happy that he was a college graduate (and then later got his MS and then PhD).  But MIL, in particular, didn't seem to like the changes in culture that dh had.  He had grown up looking at his family life as a negative example of how he wanted to live. He didn't want to stay in the neighborhood and have a low class job,  YOu would have thought that they would have realized that a physics major with a love of science doesn't want to get just any job.  SHe didn't support him becoming an officer.  SHe didn't like it that we are much more likely to watch soccer matches than baseball,  SHe didn't like how we lived really at all.  I never talked negatively to her and always tried to talk to her about her interests.  I think she liked to blame me for the changes that dh underwent but really it was an awakening to a life he really liked.  He liked going to symphony concerts and art museums.  The fact that he hadn't done so as a kid didn't mean he hadn't wanted to.  

[Carrie12345]

It really is interesting and important stuff.

 

I didn't grow up poor poor, but I definitely didn't have many tricks or tips up my sleeve.  If a person of authority declared something, it was what it was, right?

 

When I was put on academic probation, it meant I could only go to school part time.  Part timers were disqualified from campus housing.  Without campus housing, I couldn't go to school.  So I didn't go back.  Later, I found out all my friends who were put on academic probation appealed their status, got to stay in the dorms, and continued their education.  How did they know they could do that?!?!?

[TechWife]

I don't think it is just about choices.  Changing your perspective can make the things you used to value, or that your family values, and move you away from them.  When you realize what well cooked food is like, you may just not be able to enjoy poorly cooked food the same way.  When you realize the implications of a particular hobby or product, it may no longer be something you are ethically comfortable with.  You may have a broader perspective on politics, or the arts, which makes what you thought and did before seem trite or ugly.

 

But you have then created a space between where you are now and where you were, some of your childhood memories and experiences, and with your loved ones.  And people can't really just pretend that space is not there - they might do so in a way that other's can't see it, but you would still know yourself, and feel that distance.  In some instances, like opinions on politics or ideas, it could be difficult not to see people you had loved and respected in a really different light.

 

It's a phenomena that is pretty commonly described by people in that kind of situation.

Sure, I understand that. My perspective has changed a lot through the years due to my life experiences. My tastes and preferences about all kinds of things have changed. However, what has not changed is that I have chosen not to turn my back on some of the things I love and enjoy just because people I know would not like them or approve of them. My palate is much more sophisticated than it once was, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying the food that Cracker Barrel has to offer. It tastes different, I probably am enjoying it differently than I used to, I may be enjoying it more for the nostalgia factor than for the flavor, for example, but I am enjoying it and I wouldn't shy away from inviting my friends to join me if I wanted to enjoy their company. I don't care if other people like the food I do and their food likes/dislikes wouldn't make me like them any less. 

 

I totally understand that space you are referring to - my brother seems to think I'm an alien and he treats me pretty much like I'm an idiot because I don't work on my own car, but whatever! I don't see eye to eye with him on many things because I have been an adult living away from him for many years now and we have different lifetimes of experiences. I don't think that's a bad thing for either one of us, though. It only has to separate us and cause problems in our relationships if we allow it to do so. I am much more at home in the culture I now live in and would feel out of place in my old hometown, but I think that's normal and not something to lament. I don't have to feel badly about my life experience simply because people who have the same "professional" status as we have don't share them. I can either allow myself to be disturbed that people might find humor in the fact that I'm from the south, or I can delight in the differences and find humor in the fact that they aren't - I am making the choice. I've missed their lifetime of experiences, but they have missed my experiences, too. No one person's life experiences are any less valuable than that of another person's. 

 

In reading the description of the book on Amazon, it sounds like an entirely different book than this one article leads me to believe and it's making me want to read it even more. 

[SKL]

I can relate also.  Blue collar family.  I went to the nearest branch of a state college for undergrad.  I could relate to most of the folks.  Then for grad school I went to a fancy school in our region.  From day one I was out of place.  It wasn't much better when I went to work at a big CPA firm.  I have a lot of unpleasant memories relating to socializing with my professional "peers."  Blah.

 

One of the reasons I drag my kids everywhere is so that they don't feel quite so lost in various situations.

[TechWife]

I have started reading the book. I am just in the introduction and I have honk I'm going to really love me his writing style and gain perspective as well. I think the article doesn't do a good job of conveying the complexity of his stated topic, it's about far more than cultural differences:

 

"Nobel-winning laureates worry about the decline of the industrial Midwest and the hollowing out of the economic core of working whites. What they mean is that manufacturing jobs have gone overseas and middle-class jobs are harder to come by for people without college degrees. Fair enough—I worry about those things, too. But this book is about something else: what goes on in the lives of real people when the industrial economy goes south. It’s about reacting to bad circumstances in the worst way possible. It’s about a culture that increasingly encourages social decay instead of counteracting it."

...

 

"Though I will use data, and though I do sometimes rely on academic studies to make a point, my primary aim is not to convince you of a documented problem. My primary aim is to tell a true story about what that problem feels like when you were born with it hanging around your neck."

Edited July 1, 2016 by TechWife

[Joyofsixreboot]

This speaks to me.

[SarahW]

Sure, I understand that. My perspective has changed a lot through the years due to my life experiences. My tastes and preferences about all kinds of things have changed. However, what has not changed is that I have chosen not to turn my back on some of the things I love and enjoy just because people I know would not like them or approve of them. My palate is much more sophisticated than it once was, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying the food that Cracker Barrel has to offer. It tastes different, I probably am enjoying it differently than I used to, I may be enjoying it more for the nostalgia factor than for the flavor, for example, but I am enjoying it and I wouldn't shy away from inviting my friends to join me if I wanted to enjoy their company. I don't care if other people like the food I do and their food likes/dislikes wouldn't make me like them any less. 

 

I totally understand that space you are referring to - my brother seems to think I'm an alien and he treats me pretty much like I'm an idiot because I don't work on my own car, but whatever! I don't see eye to eye with him on many things because I have been an adult living away from him for many years now and we have different lifetimes of experiences. I don't think that's a bad thing for either one of us, though. It only has to separate us and cause problems in our relationships if we allow it to do so. I am much more at home in the culture I now live in and would feel out of place in my old hometown, but I think that's normal and not something to lament. I don't have to feel badly about my life experience simply because people who have the same "professional" status as we have don't share them. I can either allow myself to be disturbed that people might find humor in the fact that I'm from the south, or I can delight in the differences and find humor in the fact that they aren't - I am making the choice. I've missed their lifetime of experiences, but they have missed my experiences, too. No one person's life experiences are any less valuable than that of another person's. 

 

In reading the description of the book on Amazon, it sounds like an entirely different book than this one article leads me to believe and it's making me want to read it even more. 

 

Maybe in the book he goes into his personal opinion of Cracker Barrel. I read it more in the line of "what my parent's thought was The Best Thing In The Whole World actually isn't that great." I get that. Sometimes when I'm with my family and we decide to eat out there's a mild power struggle over where to go. For most of them their ONLY thought is a bland chain. Sometimes I win and we go to local, individually owned, food actually cooked in the kitchen restaurant (if my older brother and sil are there, who are now UMC, they back me up) and then they gripe about everything, even though it's only a dollar more than Applebees, the short menu has what they would have ordered anyways, and the serving size is more than made up by the fact that the food is tasty enough to satisfy. I have my share of "low class" guilty indulgences too. But when the words "supporting local economy" and "fresh, local food" get me strange looks and snide remarks about "only liking those fancy-dancy places" I do feel like an alien.

 

 

I have started reading the book. I am just in the introduction and I have honk I'm going to really love me his writing style and gain perspective as well. I think the article doesn't do a good job of conveying the complexity of his stated topic, it's about far more than cultural differences:

 

"Nobel-winning laureates worry about the decline of the industrial Midwest and the hollowing out of the economic core of working whites. What they mean is that manufacturing jobs have gone overseas and middle-class jobs are harder to come by for people without college degrees. Fair enough—I worry about those things, too. But this book is about something else: what goes on in the lives of real people when the industrial economy goes south. It’s about reacting to bad circumstances in the worst way possible. It’s about a culture that increasingly encourages social decay instead of counteracting it."

...

 

"Though I will use data, and though I do sometimes rely on academic studies to make a point, my primary aim is not to convince you of a documented problem. My primary aim is to tell a true story about what that problem feels like when you were born with it hanging around your neck."

 

I read through the sample, and yes, it's about more than education (that's just the bit teased out for the article). Just from the sample I had flashbacks to the "vacations" my family would take back to where my dad grew up in WV. The people I met I was vaguely related to, but couldn't quite figure out how. My dad's friend, who lived in a perpetually unfinished house with other adults and children who I also couldn't figure out how they were related to each other. The answer to the question "what to people do here for work?" being "welfare." I haven't been back there for a long time, I'm sure it's also been affected by drugs.

 

I've also read through the sample for "White Trash" which I've also seen some articles for. Fascinating stuff. My mom was from a Scots-Irish family trying to turn working-class into middle-class with steel. My dad was from German coal miners. Someone should have told them from the beginning it was a bad combination, but alas, I exist, lol. They both tried to do everything "right." They got technical degrees so they could be a part of the new technology economy (it was still grunt labor as much as the steel mill, but at least it theoretically had better future prospects). We got a PC before anyone else I knew (which my brother converted into his springboard to his current UMC status). They saved. They bought land and built a house. They were thrifty. They didn't even smoke. They were hard-working and proud. It wasn't enough. We never lived in a trailer, we lived in a solid suburban town with good schools, we generally ate healthier than my friends who did live in trailer parks, we had good medical care most of the time. But their upbringing still caught up with them. I'm trying to sort through where and what exactly went wrong, because there wasn't something obvious like pills or crime. But they weren't able to make the jump and stay there.

 

 

ETA: Got interrupted by the kids earlier, and should finish my thoughts.... My dad has two sisters. The younger one is a lot like my dad, she tried to make the right, responsible choices, but in the end things got rough and she's just salvaging what she can. The eldest, who spent the most time in Coalville, WV, as a child, is the one successfully jumped to MC/UMC and stayed there. So I'm not saying it's impossible, just pondering how they had different outcomes and what message I can learn from it. My eldest aunt also made responsible life choices. She married a man who also had hillbilly roots, but he didn't seem to carry any baggage from it. The biggest obvious difference between her and her siblings is that she (and her husband) wholly embraced the UMC-style life. She didn't disdain the hillbilly part, or disavow shopping at thrift stores or discount stores, she loved Big Lots. But she consciously chose to order her life in an intentionally aesthetic way. Meaning, while my parents were happy to cover the floor in carpet remnants and use old, mismatched furniture, my aunt scoured sales and markets for quality furnishings which matched her decorating scheme. The result was an external difference, but I think it was based on an internal difference - my dad and mom (mostly my mom) did not believe they deserved nice things, or to live in a nice place, my aunt considered herself and her family worthy of a nice environment. Sometimes we would make snide remarks about how she and my uncle were "loaded with debt," meaning that they shouldn't have their nice things. Since they have continued to be financially stable, whatever debt they did have apparently did not prove to be problem. This is just one of a few subtle differences which stand out to me.

Edited July 1, 2016 by SarahW

[Heathermomster]

The book Coming Apart by Charles Murray takes a closer look at the cultural differences between very wealthy and poor white families.  

[VaKim]

Nobody in my family ever went to college. Most never graduated high school (my dad did). Applebees and Cracker Barrel are places that people slightly richer than us eat. I guess we must be poor. 

[JoJosMom]

Excellent article.  Thanks for posting, OP.

 

The book Coming Apart by Charles Murray takes a closer look at the cultural differences between very wealthy and poor white families.  

 

:iagree: When I read the article, I  immediately thought of that book.  He describes the experience of a "Fishtown" boy being dropped into ... the rich town the name of which escapes me. :o

[SarahW]

The book Coming Apart by Charles Murray takes a closer look at the cultural differences between very wealthy and poor white families.  

 

Sounds interesting.

 

Though in the sample of White Trash I read, the author seems to find Murray to be wrong and an idiot. 

 

Like many things in social sciences, the truth is probably in both places and neither, but it'd be fun to read both books to compare.

 

 

Alas, I live in no-library/not-English land right now. And I've been ragging on my DH about buying too many kindle books recently, so I'm going to have to stew in my own curiosity for a while.