Living with a joyless person?

[Laura Corin]

My mum has never been fun. She's cautious, pessimistic and suspicious of other people's motives. She doesn't talk a lot about her fears and anxieties, but there's no room in her life for joy, silliness.... Yes, she is on medication, so she is not depressed or medically anxious, but she's just no fun.

 

How can we regain our family fun with her living with us full time? Any tips? Our previously joyful mealtime banter has died away in her presence. We exchange pleasantries and then watch her slowly eat. I don't want my boys to have only this experience of family life.

 

Please note, I'm not blaming my mum. I just want to find out ways to make her presence work for the whole family.

[Guest]

I'm probably not much help - when I deal with people like that I tend to pretend they're not there and engage with the people who actually want to engage. The serious, quiet types tend to enjoy these sorts of things at a distance more than bring drawn in and involved. Living life around them and just being blase about their personality seems to work well.

 

I've never been around a truly 'joyless' or morose person, more like the SNL classic "Debbie Downer" skit. So my advice could be way off base from how your mom actually is.

[Susan C.]

Hi Laura,

 

Is there any reason you can't carry on as before? Maybe she might join in at some point? Or at minimum, just observe. I'm not sure I'd change the whole dynamics of my family to follow her's (unless that is considered disrespectful). It might take her awhile to get used to having others around if she lived alone before and know how she wants to respond to it.

[Laura Corin]

Hi Laura,

 

Is there any reason you can't carry on as before? Maybe she might join in at some point? Or at minimum, just observe. I'm not sure I'd change the whole dynamics of my family to follow her's (unless that is considered disrespectful). It might take her awhile to get used to having others around if she lived alone before and know how she wants to respond to it.

There's no reason me can't carry on as before, but it just doesn't seem to happen. I wonder why?

[eternalsummer]

How long has she been living with you?  What kind of medication are you talking about - downers or uppers?  Did she have a regular relationship with you/DH/kids beforehand (by regular I mean did she see everyone weekly or so?)

[Laura Corin]

How long has she been living with you? What kind of medication are you talking about - downers or uppers? Did she have a regular relationship with you/DH/kids beforehand (by regular I mean did she see everyone weekly or so?)

Six months. Antidepressants. Once a year for a week - I called her most weeks and we talked for 30 to 45 minutes

[eternalsummer]

Wow, 6 months!  That is normally way past long enough for us to settle into a pretty normal pattern (we've lived with my mom for several months at a time on a few different occasions).  

 

So I would assume this is not an adjustment period, but the way things sort of are.

 

And you had a pretty regular relationship before, so it is not like you are halfway-strangers to each other.

 

 

 

DH and the kids (and me, for a while) ate dinner once a week for 3-4 years with his grandmother (who is in her 90s).  She is not joyless, but she is pretty forgetful and of course quite old, and a lot more formal than we are.  She did rather a lot of sitting and chewing while the kids jumped about and sang and screeched and ate and jabbered.  Young kids tend to do their own thing more than grown kids, though, who are more aware and responsive to adult consternation.

 

 

I wonder why you don't feel comfortable acting normally around her?  With my mom, there are definitely differences in the way we interact vs when she was not here (largely limited to not talking as brazenly about politics, where we have a significant difference of opinion) but for the most part we go on as before.  

 

Does she openly disapprove of casual joking/outgoing chatter?  

 

I wouldn't worry *too* much about your kids (unless this is not just a dinner thing and is an all day thing); they probably recognize that she is who she is.

 

When we were living with my mom it was really really good to get away as just us once a week, though (in the car on the way to have dinner with my grandmother-in-law, actually).  I would see if you can swing that kind of thing once a week - just an hour or two does the trick.

[eternalsummer]

Does she eat much slower than everyone else?

 

I know grandmother-in-law is a super super slow eater, and of course all of ours eat like racehorses, so we were done eating often half an hour before she would be.  We did not sit around the table and watch her eat, though - usually DH or I would clear things up and the restless members of the kids would run off, then we'd sit around and do things we like to do at tables (the crossword, or read the newspaper together, or talk about something) while she finished eating.  Could you gradually introduce something like this, or would it be weird?  If it were an everyday thing it could become part of your new routine, if there is something your family likes to do together (cards, or something kind of sedate but not as dull as waiting).

[Laura Corin]

Wow, 6 months!  That is normally way past long enough for us to settle into a pretty normal pattern (we've lived with my mom for several months at a time on a few different occasions).  

 

So I would assume this is not an adjustment period, but the way things sort of are.

 

And you had a pretty regular relationship before, so it is not like you are halfway-strangers to each other.

 

She and I had a relationship - I wouldn't say that the others in the family did.  

 

DH and the kids (and me, for a while) ate dinner once a week for 3-4 years with his grandmother (who is in her 90s).  She is not joyless, but she is pretty forgetful and of course quite old, and a lot more formal than we are.  She did rather a lot of sitting and chewing while the kids jumped about and sang and screeched and ate and jabbered.  Young kids tend to do their own thing more than grown kids, though, who are more aware and responsive to adult consternation.

 

 

I wonder why you don't feel comfortable acting normally around her?  With my mom, there are definitely differences in the way we interact vs when she was not here (largely limited to not talking as brazenly about politics, where we have a significant difference of opinion) but for the most part we go on as before.  

 

Does she openly disapprove of casual joking/outgoing chatter?  

 

No, she doesn't.  She can't hear a lot of what we say, but seems resigned to that.  She has just got new hearing aids, but she can't catch fast talk.  She seems fine with my turning to her a couple of times during the meal and starting a topic loudly and slowly so that she can join in.  But maybe those interventions are dampening the whole flow.  I'm not sure what to do about that, as it seems mean to have her basically not understand any of what is going on.

 

I wouldn't worry *too* much about your kids (unless this is not just a dinner thing and is an all day thing); they probably recognize that she is who she is.

 

The thing is that we used to do most of our family interaction at dinner.  The children are at school/university, I work full time, Husband is off in his office working from home.

 

When we were living with my mom it was really really good to get away as just us once a week, though (in the car on the way to have dinner with my grandmother-in-law, actually).  I would see if you can swing that kind of thing once a week - just an hour or two does the trick.

 

Yes.  We are going for a family walk with a purpose this afternoon.  Maybe we can try to create new traditions for interaction.  Otherwise, we are just going to have to explain to Mum and serve her dinner earlier a few nights a week, so that we can have that time.  She's not very social, so she might actually like that.

 

 

Does she eat much slower than everyone else?

 

Yes, much.

 

I know grandmother-in-law is a super super slow eater, and of course all of ours eat like racehorses, so we were done eating often half an hour before she would be.  We did not sit around the table and watch her eat, though - usually DH or I would clear things up and the restless members of the kids would run off, then we'd sit around and do things we like to do at tables (the crossword, or read the newspaper together, or talk about something) while she finished eating.  Could you gradually introduce something like this, or would it be weird?  If it were an everyday thing it could become part of your new routine, if there is something your family likes to do together (cards, or something kind of sedate but not as dull as waiting).

 

It's a thought.  If we could get the previous vibe back, then we could just talked while she eats.  That would be fine and not dull at all.

 

Thanks

 

L

[marbel]

There's no reason me can't carry on as before, but it just doesn't seem to happen. I wonder why?

 

I think that is pretty typical.  I've noticed that when one of us (husband, kids, me) is in a bad mood at dinnertime, everyone is quieter than normal. The bad mood sets a gloom over the group.  If I'm not the one with the mood, I do try to pick things up.  Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  

 

I'm sorry.  I don't have any ideas for you except to talk to your husband and sons, acknowledge the problem, and try to work on it as a group.  Or, as has been suggested, find new ways to spend time together.  Does your mum go to bed earlier than everyone else?  

 

 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

The hearing loss is probably bigger than it seems. It really, really sucks not being able to follow a conversation. 

[Laura Corin]

The hearing loss is probably bigger than it seems. It really, really sucks not being able to follow a conversation.

I understand, but she's always been gloomy. That hasn't come on with the hearing loss.

[Rosie_0801]

Usually with people like that I tease them a little and try to make them into accomplices in arguments. :p

 

In your case, I'd mostly ignore her at dinner. Some oldies get pleasure out of knowing everyone is close and happily chatting, even if they can't hear. You can always update her on the daily gossip after dinner if she's in the mood to hear.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe don't eat dinner with her anymore. 

 

I thought I was like that, but no it's not that bad (yet).  LOL 

[katilac]

How early do you get home in relation to dinner?

 

If you serve your mom earlier, would it be possible for you to sit and chat with her? Maybe while you are doing other 'kitchen stuff' as well, I know it's hard to make time for two dinners, and also maybe awkward to sit there and not eat. 

 

That way, it's more like, Mom, I know that you can't follow the conversation at dinner very well. I feel bad that you are left out. I thought maybe we could try having your dinner earlier, and that would give you and I a chance for some conversation. 

 

Maybe? 

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

My late paternal grandma was a domineering pessimist. My extended family is just used to going about business as usual when she stays with any of us while staying polite. My grandma wasn't depressed though, just self centered personality.

 

My paternal cousin has a hearing aid from young. We do slow down when we talk to him because we are a big family of fast talkers. The fact that his hearing aid was obvious does help because it was a visual reminder for us to slow down.

[Guest]

I know a couple mega bummers like that.

 

It feels so rude, but i have to just willfully ignore them. I really dont want home life brought down to the lowest common denominator, joy-wise. Which is no offense meant to your mom, or my people that are this way. Its just that that super pessamism is self-confirming when everyone around them is in a low mood. They dont see its because of them....they think its proof that their joyless outlook is correct!

[Laurie]

I wonder if the anti-depressants are making her seem "joyless"?   I remember hearing from someone that her experience with anti-depressants was that the medication not only took away the low feelings, but the "highs" as well.   

 

How often does she see her doctor, and will she let you come to the appointments and talk with the doctor, too?  Maybe she needs a different dose of the medication?  

[Laura Corin]

I wonder if the anti-depressants are making her seem "joyless"?   I remember hearing from someone that her experience with anti-depressants was that the medication not only took away the low feelings, but the "highs" as well.   

 

How often does she see her doctor, and will she let you come to the appointments and talk with the doctor, too?  Maybe she needs a different dose of the medication?  

 

She's always been like that.  I've been to every appointment where she has seen the doctor for the last six months (every two weeks until recently).  I think the medication is as good as it's going to get, for now.

[Ms Brooks]

What about social interaction with people her own age? Senior group/senior outing?

 

Since she is your mom, has she always been like this? 

 

Separate family dinners might be a solution.  :sad:

[Laura Corin]

What about social interaction with people her own age? Senior group/senior outing?

 

Since she is your mom, has she always been like this? 

 

Separate family dinners might be a solution.  :sad:

 

Yes, she's always been like this. She had a few friends in the 1970s.  After she moved house ten years later, she dropped all those friends (deliberately) and made no new ones.  She's a solitary bee.

 

You have all been helping me though.  I was much more relaxed during lunch and supper today.  It was more fun.  So I think it was maybe my and Husband's reaction to her, rather than her herself, that was the problem.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Laura Corin

[Tammyla]

Didn't she live alone for a long time.  It may be an adjustment just eating with others regularly; she may also enjoy the banter without joining or expressing it outwardly.  Also...how is her hearing?  

There's no reason me can't carry on as before, but it just doesn't seem to happen. I wonder why?

 

[BooksandBoys]

I wonder if your family would benefit from something like dinner conversation cards or other such conversation stimulants until you can get back to the habit of more spontaneous discussion? I've noticed that sometimes we have to go really over the top for a bit to overcome a negative slump. When my husband was in a really bad period of depression and it has made everyone in the family miserable, I took to playing very happy music and dancing and singing along with the kids all evening long in order to combat it. We don't need the music anymore because we found the happiness habit again (and DH improved too), but it helped a lot and very quickly.