Discipline vs Punishment

[Country Girl]

During conversations on parenting, these two terms are often distinguished from one another. I have an idea in my own mind how these are different but would really like to here how *you* define them. More importantly, I'd like to see how these two terms differ, in practice, in your home.

 

Thanks!

[Joanne]

I have a whole website on the issue! And I'm writing a book about it. ;)

 

That said:

 

Punishment: Arbitrary, unrelated action imposed on children in response to inappropriate behavior (For the sake of simplicity, I won't include issues of deveopmental ignorance, unrealistic expections, etc)

 

Discipline: Teaching a child the standard of behavior and how to reach it

 

In my home, this means we rarely punish but discipline often.

 

In my home discipline for school aged children can and does include consequences that are related, reasonable and respectful (borrowed from author Jane Nelsen). To that list, I'd add that the consequence should not punish *me* such as not going to an event, grounding a child from playing outdoors, etc.

[Alenee]

Discipline is a derivative of "disciple" and in latin "discipulus" which means student. Discipline is teaching good habits as opposed to bad ones. You can discipline either way.

 

Punishment is an action taken after an offense has occurred.

 

In my home, we are teaching good (hopefully) habits of being good stewards of time (not wasting it), good habits with regular chores, personal habits, treatment of others, etc.

 

When one of the kids disobeys, hurts another person intentionally, has a poor attitude, a punishment is given relative to the offense.

[VaKim]

To me, you can use some of the same methods with either (for example, spanking.) However, in my opinion, punishment is when the parent gets fed up with whatever the child is doing and makes sure the child pays for whatever he did to make the parent angry or irritated. Discipline is training the child to behave and be the kind of person you want them to be. It requires a lot more work.:)

 

In my house, we trained the dds from the time they were small in first time obedience. Haven't had to do more than make a verbal correction in years.

[LizzyBee]

I would say that punishment is just one component of discipline. Discipline includes instruction and training. Punishment is the imposition of negative consequences for behavior.

 

We only punish for deliberate, willful disobedience and defiance.

Edited October 6, 2008 by LizzyBee

[Renee in NC]

Let me show you with two different responses to my 15yo's poor Progress Report.

 

Discipline: Determine what happened, what he can do to prevent it in the future, get him to take responsibility for the actions he did have control over, formulate a plan to prevent it from happening again. This might involve things that are unpleasant, but not "punishment."

 

Punishment: Yell and lecture for 30 minutes or more about how he doesn't try hard enough. Ground him for 2 weeks from computer, TV, friends, and/or whatever else seems to be painful.

 

The first helps teach him to solve the problem, the second just angers him and doesn't make it more likely that he will get better grades next time. Which do you think is me and which is his Dad?:glare:

[mrsdash]

I will agree here. Discipline is to teach and correct and punishment is meant to punish and nothing more.

[Laura Corin]

When I used to use them, I found that they tended to push a strong-willed child away from me, making him less likely to follow family rules in the future. I normally talk about guiding, as 'discipline' has come to have a punitive aura. Natural consequences are allowed to occur (you make a mess, you clear it up before going on to something more fun) but I don't manufacture consequences.

 

Laura

[WTMCassandra]

To that list, I'd add that the consequence should not punish *me* such as not going to an event, grounding a child from playing outdoors, etc.

 

Now, this seems to me to be the most difficult part of the process. How do you do this?

 

I have a hard time figuring out consequences that don't end up punishing me as well, and then I am fighting resentment.

[momtoboys]

I don't believe in punishment, just discipline.

 

Punishment seems "mean" to me,and like I would be being a lazy parent, and not really going the extra mile for true disciplining and training of my child to occur.

[Joanne]

I have a hard time figuring out consequences that don't end up punishing me as well, and then I am fighting resentment.

__________________

 

Like I posted, my imposed consequences are related, reasonable and respectful. That's why I can't give a list of them; they are situation specific.

 

I can say, however, that screen time, too much media, etc is often directly related to my children's misbehavior so there are times when they are pulled.

[Heather in Neverland]

I'm definitely a big fan of giving clear instructions with logical and natural consequences as well as giving choices.

 

For instance, ds cannot watch TV, play video games, get on the computer, etc. until his lessons for the day are done. It is HIS choice. If he finishesd in a timely manner he has free time. If not, he can sit at the table until bed time. Again, it is HIS choice not a punishment imposed by me.

 

Also, he has to clean his room in the morning before breakfast. He knows this. It has been explained to him clearly. If he refuses, guess what? He doesn't eat until it gets done. It is HIS choice. It ALWAYS gets cleaned (he likes eating).

 

For the record, the entire family cleans their bedrooms before breakfast, including me so the rule applies to all. :D

[Pamela H in Texas]

Discipline is teaching, guiding, helping, training, correcting, etc. Punishment is sometimes (in some households, regularly) used by parents hoping to achieve some aspect of discipline. I believe punishment is way overused and misused. The more parents use other disciplinary methods, the less they'd feel the desire or "need" to use punishment. I believe the tougher the child, the better the disciplinary measures need to be.

 

I believe the parents on this board aim to do well in terms of disciplining their children. I also believe that all of us can continue to do better and better instead of settling for where we're at. I believe our kids are worth it.

[Ashleen]

To me, discipline involves setting rules and boundaries and talking honestly with kids about the fact that choices have consequences and that our life consists of those consequences (something no one told me when I was young and it floored me when I heard it for the first time as an adult -- I honestly thought life was something that happens to you that you have little control over. I don't want my kids to grow up thinking that).

 

Punishment is when you're mad and you want to get back at whoever made you mad.

 

Discipline is for the sake of the child; punishment is for the sake of revenge.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I have to agree with Heather here. I would add that discipline involves understanding what a child needs be obedient and to accomplish tasks. Also, to me, it means setting a child up for success.

 

. If he finishesd in a timely manner he has free time. If not, he can sit at the table until bed time. Again, it is HIS choice not a punishment imposed by me.

 

 

In addition to this, I would add that discipline would involve working with the child, helping the child gain the time management skills and attentiveness to task until the child can consistently do it himself. I know that I struggle with my expectations regarding my children's capabilities for independence and I need to keep in mind that they are still works in progress. My highschooler is struggling with this because he feels overwhelmed. He is not dawdling because he is being defiant, but because he needs some assistance with the increased demands that his high school requirements involve.

 

.

Also, he has to clean his room in the morning before breakfast. He knows this. It has been explained to him clearly. If he refuses, guess what? He doesn't eat until it gets done. It is HIS choice.

 

Again, here I have to add that discipline would involve teaching the child how to break down the task in to smaller pieces and assist the child in staying on task. I know that my mother was one who expected me to clean my room, but never taught me how she wanted it done, but I was continually punished for doing it wrong or incompletely - the punishment was that I couldn't leave until it was done or I had to come home from where ever I was, only to find all my belongings out of the closets and I had to start over. Dd8 still needs my presence when cleaning her room because she gets overwhelmed. My boys are more independent at this.

 

Like I mentioned above disciplining children rather than punishing involves setting them up for success. In our household, requiring the room to be clean before breakfast would not be setting them up for success because some of my kids (including their mother) have low blood sugar in the morning. Food needs to come before chores or there will be meltdowns (mom included.)

[Lovedtodeath]

I have always struggled with dds behavior and since nothing seems to work, I have struggled with being inconsistent.

 

In my home, we are teaching good (hopefully) habits of being good stewards of time (not wasting it), good habits with regular chores, personal habits, treatment of others, etc.

 

How do you do that? And how would I do it if I continually struggle in those areas? Not only am I not setting a good example, I am never sure where to set the bar.

 

In my house, we trained the dds from the time they were small in first time obedience. Haven't had to do more than make a verbal correction in years.

 

How did you do that?

 

I also find it difficult to know what to do when atrocious behavior seems to be related to food allergies and sensory issues.:confused:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I have always struggled with dds behavior and since nothing seems to work, I have struggled with being inconsistent.

 

Carmen, really, this is the key. You will, no matter what discipline or punishment you use find you struggle with your dd's behavior if you don't learn to be consistent.

 

There are several threads about first time obedience. Some (most?) people punish their kids into it. I find that unfair and wrong. It also won't work with a truly tougher kiddo. I also have an issue with allowing a child to choose to engage in a "discipline situation" instead of complying.

 

Mean what you say the first time you say it. Follow through with making it happen immediately after that first time. You won't get nearly as frustrated if you don't repeat yourself, threaten, etc. Just make it happen. Don't allow the child to choose punishment instead. Just make it happen.

 

Now, there are several things that might make it easier. You have to know your kiddo. Some kids take longer to process things. My son did. So instead of saying "bath time," I'd say, "when the big hand gets to the 3, you need to be in the bathtub." That gave him a little time to wrap his head around it and comply on his own.

 

Having routines helps a lot. If kiddo knows they brush their teeth then bathe then have a story every single night, then it's going to be a lot easier for them to go through those motions.

 

Make certain things a game, a race, a big kid job, whatever. Make it inviting.

 

Lead them towards compliance.

 

Pick them up and place them where they need to be. Use their hands to complete a task.

 

The world stops until compliance is met.

 

A set answer such as "yes, mom" can make a huge difference.

 

Discuss obedience, honoring parents, etc but NOT at the moment!

 

PRACTICE obedience. Truly, you can make it role modeling, a game, whatever, but practice really can make the biggest difference in the world. It can overcome a bad habit.

 

But more than anything, you MUST be consistent. If you don't say what you mean even 1/10 of the time, then the kid is going to wonder if you are REALLY serious this time. Why should they comply if you aren't going to follow through? Sure, when they are older, they can learn to obey for even better reasons than what you set up as authority, but little kids obey because you have set yourself up as an authority or a big meanie. They have no reason to do so otherwise. I don't suggest going the mean route. It's unnecessary.

 

And think how much easier it is once you do train obedience. Really, it may take a few months to get through the initial training and the first couple testing periods so they trust you again (and don't you want to be trustworthy for your kids?). But after that, maintenance is pretty easy comparatively. And even if something goes haywire, the whole system doesn't have to be overhauled, just renegotiated. We've had a few bumps but they were always corrected in short order because the initial training, heart, relationship was in place.

 

So many people are regularly controlling their middle elementary, jr high and high schoolers with threats and bribes, punishment and rewards. In most cases, they failed to consistently do the work early on. You want better for your family, no doubt. Put it in your mind that you will start being consistent. That your kids deserve to trust you mean what you say and will follow through. That you deserve the peacefulness that will come with well disciplined kids.

 

You can do this! :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1086443&pp=25&page=3

 

Hopefully that link will work. I simply did a search for "first time obedience" and on page 3 of that search, came up with 5 or 6 THREADS regarding discipline. Some are long, some not so long. But it could be some good reading. No doubt you'll find a variety of opinion though I'll admit I sometimes get sucked into these threads and post twice (thrice?) as much as I should :)

[Heather in Neverland]

I have to agree with Heather here. I would add that discipline involves understanding what a child needs be obedient and to accomplish tasks. Also, to me, it means setting a child up for success.

 

 

 

In addition to this, I would add that discipline would involve working with the child, helping the child gain the time management skills and attentiveness to task until the child can consistently do it himself. I know that I struggle with my expectations regarding my children's capabilities for independence and I need to keep in mind that they are still works in progress. My highschooler is struggling with this because he feels overwhelmed. He is not dawdling because he is being defiant, but because he needs some assistance with the increased demands that his high school requirements involve.

 

 

 

Again, here I have to add that discipline would involve teaching the child how to break down the task in to smaller pieces and assist the child in staying on task. I know that my mother was one who expected me to clean my room, but never taught me how she wanted it done, but I was continually punished for doing it wrong or incompletely - the punishment was that I couldn't leave until it was done or I had to come home from where ever I was, only to find all my belongings out of the closets and I had to start over. Dd8 still needs my presence when cleaning her room because she gets overwhelmed. My boys are more independent at this.

 

Like I mentioned above disciplining children rather than punishing involves setting them up for success. In our household, requiring the room to be clean before breakfast would not be setting them up for success because some of my kids (including their mother) have low blood sugar in the morning. Food needs to come before chores or there will be meltdowns (mom included.)

 

 

As I stated, the children have been given clear expectations and perhaps I should have added explicit instruction on how to do tasks assigned to them (I assumed this would be understood but I apparently did not make myself clear).

 

The POINT is that when children are instructed in how to act and given clear instructions on what is expected of them and how to go about achieving that and have a clear understanding of the logical consequences of their behavior should they CHOOSE not to comply, punishment is unnecessary. If your children have low blood sugar then I obviously would not suggest that they make their bed (which takes 5 minutes) before eating breakfast. It was merely an example of our parenting philosophy in terms of choices and consequences.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Heather, I didn't mean to come off as critical of your post, just clarify to the OP in more detail what that clear instructions can look like and that what works for one family may look different than what works for others. I am sorry it came off as critical. Not my intention.

[Aggie]

Part of the reason we discipline is to make sure our dc are protected and cared for. They know this, too! :)

 

We don't ground, but if a dc is not polite at home, we just can't be sure she'll be polite any where else. If a dc does not do what we ask, how can we be sure she'll do what another parent or teacher asks? And how can another adult protect them if dc isn't doing what she's supposed to do?

 

So far, dh and I haven't had to sacrifice any trip or outing because of the dc, but I'm here to tell you, it would be worth every minute and/or dollar if we ever need to.

 

As for playing outside, that's rarely been an issue here. If there was a reason a dc couldn't play outside because of behavior or attitude, that dc would be inside doing something to make my life easier, not harder. Or outside making sure my garden didn't have any weeds. It's not punitive, but a consequence of their choice(s).

 

On a side note....my 12yodd gave me some attitude in a store a few months ago right at the cashier. We've always disciplined in private, but I considered her little outburst unacceptable and called her on it right there. She surely didn't expect it and I don't think she'll do it again. We did talk about it later, but I felt the discipline was appropriate for the action. And had I waited until we got in the van or home, I think she would have gotten the idea that it was ok to back talk in front of strangers. :(

 

Off to watch Jay Leno,

Aggie

[sunshine]

During conversations on parenting, these two terms are often distinguished from one another. I have an idea in my own mind how these are different but would really like to here how *you* define them. More importantly, I'd like to see how these two terms differ, in practice, in your home.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Punishment: makes me feel better by teaching you a lesson (wrong)

 

Discipline: makes you feel better by teaching you a lesson (right)

[VaKim]

Someone asked "how" we instilled first time obedience in our children. I wish I could quote some method. But the truth is, there is no one system you can use with every child and expect success. I only have two, and they were so very different. My first was perfect. :001_smile: Seriously, I may have had to smack her hands or something three times in her entire life, when she was little. She came into this world compliant and wanting to please, and is still that way.

 

My youngest was the complete opposite. She was actually born screaming and rebelling and trying to get up off the table where the nurses were cleaning her off.:D She required a whole lot more attention and correction when she was younger, but now, she is as well-behaved as her sister (almost).

 

I think the main thing is consistence, in whatever you choose. If you are consistent, and that requires tons of time and attention, you will most likely succeed. If you are not consistent, no matter what methods you use, you will most likely fail. Unless you have a perfect child like my first. :D It takes a lot of work and time when they are little, but the pay off comes later, when you don't have to do more than say a word or give a look, and they know and understand and obey.

 

And lest anybody think I am some kind of evil dictator that my children are afraid of, this is not true at all. We have so much fun, and are so full of silliness, that my kids are often telling me that I need to behave or we will never get anything done. I think, to use an old worn out saying, that much more is caught than taught.

[mazakaal]

Punishment: Arbitrary, unrelated action imposed on children in response to inappropriate behavior (For the sake of simplicity, I won't include issues of deveopmental ignorance, unrealistic expections, etc)

 

Discipline: Teaching a child the standard of behavior and how to reach it

 

 

I don't think punishment is necessarily arbitrary or unrelated. I have a friend whose ds punched a hole in his door. As punishment, the dad took the door off the hinges and told him that he would have to live without a door until he could pay to replace it. It was punitive, but certainly not arbitrary.

 

I like your definitiion of discipline, though. :001_smile:

[Country Girl]

Wow, thank you everyone for all of the thoughtful replies. I have read through them all but am still processing all of the ideas, thoughts, etc. I especially appreciate those who gave examples of how you actually discipline. I get the concept of how discipline is different from punishment but still a little foggy on how it should look in our home. These examples are helping.

 

Another thought that came to my mind..... Is the difference between a given consequence being labeled as discipline -vs- punishment just a matter of attitude? In other words, if a child has a consequence for a given action, is it considered discipline if you have the attitude that you are trying to teach them something and punishment if you are doing it because you are mad, getting revenge, etc? To me, it seems there should be more to it than that and I guess this is what I am trying to figure out. Is a consequence only discipline when it is a natural (not imposed by me) result of a given action?

 

In my life, I've had people tell me that the reason you give a child a consequence [sitting in a corner, withholding privileges, even spanking(please, no discussion on this... I don't plan to do this just giving background on what parenting philosophies I've encountered)] is to try to "train" them "teach" them etc. However, something seems "off" about this to me and I'm really trying to figure out how I can discipline my kiddos and not punish them when they do something wrong (which happens occasionally :D).

 

Thanks for the great discussion and insight so far. I'd still love to hear further responses.

 

Thanks!

[Pamela H in Texas]

CountryGirl,

 

I think a lot IS in the attitude, but also how related it is. If a child throws the ball in the house, he loses the ball for misusing it. It's put on the fridge. If he wants to use it, he needs to let me know he knows how/where to use the ball and I'll gladly give it back. These are pretty logical consequences anyone could think of. Some people might put the ball up for the rest of the day. This could be logical or punitive. Putting it up away from a 2yo for the rest of the week is punitive (or lazy such as "I just don't want to deal with it.") though.

 

I really aim at prevention and encouragement. I want children to learn to think for themselves. Can mommy talk on the phone AND to Timmy at the same time? Kids can learn this basic reasoning at 2 and 3. So then we come up with a way for Timmy to say, "I really need to tell you something" while mom is on the phone. He places his hand on mom's leg. Mom responds, in essence saying, "I notice you and will be right with you," by placing her hand on his. At her earliest convenience, she excuses herself from the conversation temporarily or completely and addresses Timmy.

 

Another option is that when the phone rings, everyone goes to their special 'phone' toys or area. Or mom doesn't answer the phone during certain hours making call backs during naptime.

 

BTW, I'm STRONGLY against punishment in the training phase as I feel it's unfair at best. The child doesn't yet know the rules but is getting in trouble for it? especially when it's usually when the parent hasn't set up the situation well? How fair is that? Instead, I feel the training time is based on guiding and helping so they learn the rules of the road, so to speak.

[Joanne]

I don't think punishment is necessarily arbitrary or unrelated. I have a friend whose ds punched a hole in his door. As punishment, the dad took the door off the hinges and told him that he would have to live without a door until he could pay to replace it. It was punitive, but certainly not arbitrary.

 

That would fall under appropriate consequences for me.

 

I'd more likely have the child fix/replace the door, but removing it is also related, reasonable and respectful.

 

Oh, and clearly the child needs additional help with *appropriate* expression of emotion.

[Heather in Neverland]

Heather, I didn't mean to come off as critical of your post, just clarify to the OP in more detail what that clear instructions can look like and that what works for one family may look different than what works for others. I am sorry it came off as critical. Not my intention.

 

No harm done! I just wanted to clarify that I didn't think ALL people should have the same rules we do (especially if it is a health issue) and that those were just examples.

[angela in ohio]

Discipline is the overall process of bringing up a child who others can stand to be near. ;)

 

Punishment is one tool that can be used in discipline.

[Country Girl]

CountryGirl,

 

I think a lot IS in the attitude, but also how related it is. If a child throws the ball in the house, he loses the ball for misusing it. It's put on the fridge. If he wants to use it, he needs to let me know he knows how/where to use the ball and I'll gladly give it back. These are pretty logical consequences anyone could think of. Some people might put the ball up for the rest of the day. This could be logical or punitive. Putting it up away from a 2yo for the rest of the week is punitive (or lazy such as "I just don't want to deal with it.") though.

 

I really aim at prevention and encouragement. I want children to learn to think for themselves. Can mommy talk on the phone AND to Timmy at the same time? Kids can learn this basic reasoning at 2 and 3. So then we come up with a way for Timmy to say, "I really need to tell you something" while mom is on the phone. He places his hand on mom's leg. Mom responds, in essence saying, "I notice you and will be right with you," by placing her hand on his. At her earliest convenience, she excuses herself from the conversation temporarily or completely and addresses Timmy.

 

Another option is that when the phone rings, everyone goes to their special 'phone' toys or area. Or mom doesn't answer the phone during certain hours making call backs during naptime.

 

BTW, I'm STRONGLY against punishment in the training phase as I feel it's unfair at best. The child doesn't yet know the rules but is getting in trouble for it? especially when it's usually when the parent hasn't set up the situation well? How fair is that? Instead, I feel the training time is based on guiding and helping so they learn the rules of the road, so to speak.

 

Pamela,

Thanks for expanding on your thoughts. There are a few things in our home right now that I'm not very happy with and I'm determined to change them (me). I appreciate the time you have taken to share how things work in your house.

 

Thanks!

[Pamela H in Texas]

Country Girl,

 

If you're interested, I'm sure if you shared those few things that are a problem, the ladies on here would be helpful in finding ways you can prevent, guide, teach, train and correct as reasonable.

[Country Girl]

Thanks Pamela.

 

I'm not really even sure what specific things they are. I just feel like there is too much yelling, punishing, etc. going on and that we are generally too hard on our kiddos. Don't get me wrong, my kids are really pretty well behaved and I don't think we are complete tyrants. I just feel like I want something better for our family, me, and the kids. A few weeks ago I posted about a related topic and a few people suggested the book "Grace Based Parenting". I read this book and really liked it but felt a little lost when it came to implementing the ideas in our home. I know that I want a grace-based home, I'm just not exactly sure how that looks and how to make it happen. The reason I posted on this topic is because I feel it is related to the idea of discipline -vs- punishment. Right now I'm in the middle of reading through Joanne's entire website and really enjoying it and getting some ideas from there.

 

Thanks for helping me think through this and providing wisdom!

 

Editing to add: Okay, I just thought of some specifics. They are mostly issues with my 7yo ds but I notice my 4yo is learning from big brother. They are: talking back, speaking disrespectfully to me, and complaining about doing daily chores (they get allowance for doing these and if they don't do them... no allowance).

Edited October 8, 2008 by Country Girl

[Pamela H in Texas]

A few quick ideas....

 

Talking back

 

1) my brother has his daughter (6) ask if she may give her opinion/idea. If the answer is no, she must immediately comply. If the answer is yes, she may state her case and then a decision will be made. He figures this is most like what he must do at work so she might as well learn it early on. Only real issue with this, as we both see it, is that at 6, dd can't notice subtle nuances of situations to know when it's okay to even ask or not. But he finds it's a minor problem and she'll learn in time.

 

2) In our home, we did "comply first, then question" for awhile. Then in time, kiddo is given opportunity to appeal occassionally in the situation as long as they do so respectfully such as "may I take the trash out after I finish this chapter?" In times where things got too loose (bumps in every road), we just went back to comply first for awhile.

 

Speaking respectfully:

 

A couple things. Practice practice practice. Do some role playing. Make sure they "get it." However, most of the time, this is more about not handling feelings appropriately. Make sure they are gaining skills on recognizing and expressing themselves appropriately in order that they don't do so incorrectly.

 

The SECOND that there is a tone, poor word choice, etc, redirect them. "try again." You may have a code sign of holding up two fingers. That means they have 2 seconds to try again or say they need a little more time and will come back when they are ready to try again. We often said, "TOV" (tone of voice). Sometimes he had to intentionally be sing-songy at first. In time, he was able to gain appropriate control. It is okay to be mad about something, but a respectable person doesn't have to express that inappropriately (and often can not express it to others at all but instead can just get the good out of the situation and move on).

 

I am going based on your siggy that y'all believe in God and the Bible. Children are given ONE commandment and that is to obey and honor their parents (Eph 6:1-3 with a few parallels). If they honor this relationship, they are also honoring God. Sometimes kids will try extra hard for God :) Also, it might help to share with them all the scriptures that talk about how it's only because you love them that you discipline at all. If you didn't care, you'd let them do "whatever."

 

When we've had this bump, it's usually because things have been more critical, less "family-like" around here. We step up the commendation. We try to make sure we're doing enough as a family. We work on the relationship. Screen time, stress, illness, etc can all pull very hard on people. Kids don't always get that. Just evaluate things that could be taking away from the family and go from there.

 

Yelling is almost always because mom isn't following through immediately on something. We get frustrated when we tell kids the same thing 3 times in 5 minutes. If we follow through the first time, we have less reason to be flustered. Also, kids will TRY to hear a whispering mom. When you WANT to yell, try whispering instead. Also, maybe meditate on the scriptures regarding being calmer, cooler, less angry. I'm working on this myself.

 

On the chores....I'd just sit them down and make it clear that a complaining attitude is not peaceful and will not be accepted. They can do a chore cheerfully or do it miserably, but they may not make anyone else miserable in the process. And really, why not find a way to be cheerful about it and give themselves a bit more peace too? Tell them to trust ya (you've been around longer), it'll work. Maybe suggest they could put on fave music or something during chore time or something like that. Ask THEM for ideas to make it more pleasant.

 

Hope some of these ideas work. The biggest thing is to be consistent so you are trustworthy and not frustrated. Every time you don't follow through immediately, you tell them that they might can get away with something.

[Country Girl]

A few quick ideas....

 

Talking back

 

1) my brother has his daughter (6) ask if she may give her opinion/idea. If the answer is no, she must immediately comply. If the answer is yes, she may state her case and then a decision will be made. He figures this is most like what he must do at work so she might as well learn it early on. Only real issue with this, as we both see it, is that at 6, dd can't notice subtle nuances of situations to know when it's okay to even ask or not. But he finds it's a minor problem and she'll learn in time.

 

2) In our home, we did "comply first, then question" for awhile. Then in time, kiddo is given opportunity to appeal occassionally in the situation as long as they do so respectfully such as "may I take the trash out after I finish this chapter?" In times where things got too loose (bumps in every road), we just went back to comply first for awhile.

 

Speaking respectfully:

 

A couple things. Practice practice practice. Do some role playing. Make sure they "get it." However, most of the time, this is more about not handling feelings appropriately. Make sure they are gaining skills on recognizing and expressing themselves appropriately in order that they don't do so incorrectly.

 

The SECOND that there is a tone, poor word choice, etc, redirect them. "try again." You may have a code sign of holding up two fingers. That means they have 2 seconds to try again or say they need a little more time and will come back when they are ready to try again. We often said, "TOV" (tone of voice). Sometimes he had to intentionally be sing-songy at first. In time, he was able to gain appropriate control. It is okay to be mad about something, but a respectable person doesn't have to express that inappropriately (and often can not express it to others at all but instead can just get the good out of the situation and move on).

 

I am going based on your siggy that y'all believe in God and the Bible. Children are given ONE commandment and that is to obey and honor their parents (Eph 6:1-3 with a few parallels). If they honor this relationship, they are also honoring God. Sometimes kids will try extra hard for God :) Also, it might help to share with them all the scriptures that talk about how it's only because you love them that you discipline at all. If you didn't care, you'd let them do "whatever."

 

When we've had this bump, it's usually because things have been more critical, less "family-like" around here. We step up the commendation. We try to make sure we're doing enough as a family. We work on the relationship. Screen time, stress, illness, etc can all pull very hard on people. Kids don't always get that. Just evaluate things that could be taking away from the family and go from there.

 

Yelling is almost always because mom isn't following through immediately on something. We get frustrated when we tell kids the same thing 3 times in 5 minutes. If we follow through the first time, we have less reason to be flustered. Also, kids will TRY to hear a whispering mom. When you WANT to yell, try whispering instead. Also, maybe meditate on the scriptures regarding being calmer, cooler, less angry. I'm working on this myself.

 

On the chores....I'd just sit them down and make it clear that a complaining attitude is not peaceful and will not be accepted. They can do a chore cheerfully or do it miserably, but they may not make anyone else miserable in the process. And really, why not find a way to be cheerful about it and give themselves a bit more peace too? Tell them to trust ya (you've been around longer), it'll work. Maybe suggest they could put on fave music or something during chore time or something like that. Ask THEM for ideas to make it more pleasant.

 

Hope some of these ideas work. The biggest thing is to be consistent so you are trustworthy and not frustrated. Every time you don't follow through immediately, you tell them that they might can get away with something.

 

Pamela,

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to give suggestions. As I read your suggestions, I think "duh" why didn't I think of that. They really seem to make sense and I'll give them a try. Your suggestion to meditate on scripture is also a great idea as far as helping me with my frustration/anger. I know that you are right about being consistent and this is something I will try to work on.

 

Thanks!