Financial Safety schools

[Ann.without.an.e]

How do you identify financially "safe" schools?  A school your student is sure to get in to AND has great aid/meets full need/etc?  I feel as if the schools that are a great financial option for us are also not safety schools per se - DD meets their scores and gpa, etc but these are schools where the admittance rate is rather rocky for anyone.  Finances will be a huge barrier for us for DD and college.  The EFC calculator for many schools is simply more than we can ever pay as well which is making this process very scary for DD.  She may get National Merit which might provide a great financial safety, but we won't know that until fall.

 

As we seek to narrow down her application list, I just wonder...how did YOU determine a school was fairly safe financially?  If you have already worked through this with a kid, was your gamble pretty safe?

 

Thanks  

Edited April 1, 2016 by Charleigh

[creekland]

When a family's EFC is too high, this is tough as the vast majority of schools are going to expect a family to meet their EFC.

 

Best bet otherwise is to look for schools that offer automatic merit awards bringing the school down to affordable levels.  For high scores (NM type), Pitt is often a decent contender.  They aren't automatic, but tend to give merit award announcements pretty early soon after their rolling admission acceptance.  U Alabama, U Kentucky, and Arizona (not sure if State or U or both) also come to mind as possibilities.

 

Some states have public colleges that also give decent merit aid to good academic students, so check there.

 

On College Confidential there is a thread (somewhere) that has a whole bunch of schools with automatic merit aid listed.  Just be certain you check to make sure any school that interests you is still offering what is listed.  Things can change as years go by.

 

Best wishes to you.

Edited April 1, 2016 by creekland

[Luckymama]

Here are my favorite websites, compiled by College Confidential posters. They will be updated for the 2016-17 admissions cycle as soon as schools make any changes:

 

Automatic full tuition or full ride http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com

 

Competititve full tuition or full ride http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com

 

National Merit Semifinalist or Finalist http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com

Edited April 1, 2016 by Luckymama

[elegantlion]

For us, it came down to eliminating part of the cost by having ds live at home. That eliminated most schools, obviously, and it saved him about 10K off the price. 

 

It worked for us because was not sure exactly which direction he wanted to study and he did not want huge loans the first year. 

[MarkT]

Some folks think that 50/50 schools will give more merit aid to top candidates.

 

http://diycollegerankings.com/50-50-highlights-college-acceptance-rates/6669/

 

http://diycollegerankings.com/50-50-highlights-colleges-with-most-generous-financial-aid/5403/

[8filltheheart]

Merit scholarships at lower ranked schools.

 

Our kids have a real parental contribution that will barely cover room and board (or not even at some schools). Schools, even schools known for fabulous aid, expect 2.5-3x what we can pay. So tippy top competitive schools are not even on the list anymore bc we have learned we cannot afford them.

 

We focus on full-tuition and full-ride scholarship schools. Our current college sophomore is attending full-ride on multiple stack scholarships given by his university. Our 11th grader is already on the merit hunt and we have been visiting schools that give large awards based on test scores and GPA.

 

The link Luckymama shared is a good place to start.

[8filltheheart]

Dp

Edited April 1, 2016 by 8FillTheHeart

[JanetC]

Your financial safety budget includes:

A) What you can pay out of your income and savings

B) Any Pell grant you may be eligible for

C) The basic federal loan (currently 5500 for freshmen)

D) The student's summer earnings

E) Any money you are guaranteed, from your GPA, test score, National Merit status, once you know these things

 

Your safety school with a high EFC is probably a community college, in-state public, or possibly a regional compact (guaranteed tuition discount) public that costs less than your EFC. If you are lucky, there is a school you can commute to and save on room and board, but that will be dependent on where you live. Some people on this board have had luck with having a DC board with a different relative (aunt, grandma, etc.) if you have family in a college town.

[FaithManor]

For us, we make to much to get any kind of aid whatsoever, lost our savings in the 529 plan when dd was a high school senior and the housing market bubble burst thus causing the stock market to crash thus causing us to have to cash it out for her for less than what we'd put into it to begin with, and of course we don't make enough to pay huge amounts of money for college for three boys. However, the government apparently believes that we should be homeless and staving given the EFC they have identified and then multiplied by TWO instead of cutting us a break for having two college students at once. My assumption is they believe we should sell our organs on the black market when boy number three enters school during his older brother's senior year because the current EFC times three would be 2/3 of dh's take home pay.

 

So for us the phrase "financial safety" is a contradiction in terms! The closest thing would be sending ds to a regional university that he could commute to that does not have his major at all. It would cut the cost of attendance in half for him. However he'd be miserable, and would not be working in the field that is his heart's desire, freshwater ecology/conservation. Therefore, I am figuring out how to go back to work part time and still homeschool youngest for two more years which will give us just enough to pay our EFC and the significant gap between that and the final bill minus merit aid (which was significant so it's just ridiculous how much they gapped us), Stafford loans ($5500.00), and his campus job. Then when the youngest goes to college, I'll go back to school full time and hopefully we won't have to be homeless. But we simply don't want the kids to have the high priced private loans and bury themselves in debt so we find a way to muddle through.

 

It is causing a lot of problems within our extended family because my parents are going bankrupt due to a failing business that my terminally ill father can no longer work in, and medical bills not covered by Medicare or VA. They aren't going to have anything left to live on besides paltry social security as they are losing everything, but apart from probably buying them some groceries here or there and having them eat some evening meals with us, we can't do anything else to aid them financially. My sister is not speaking to us anymore because we are choosing for my income next fall to go to our sons instead of to them. She is a grad school student - citizen of France now - and doesn't have any money to send either. Sigh....too much financial pressure right now. Way.too.much.

 

Given what we see happening with my folks, there are a couple of things we are determined to do. Not lower the generous amount we put away each month towards retirement when dh can no longer work so that we won't become a financial burden to our adult kids, and doing everything we can to help them get launched successfully into adulthood which includes paying as much as possible towards college and keeping their student loan debt low and manageable while helping them get education and training that will hopefully lead to doing something they enjoy because life is so short to have to spend it working for 50 years doing something you really hate. None of them are vocational school minded, and it wouldn't be a savings anyway as those schools are just as expensive here, and we would not get any aid either but they offer ZERO merit aid so could potentially be in even worse shape given that many of the licensing programs are two to four years long with licensing exams costing upwards of $3000 each. So it makes no difference to us if they are college bound or vocational bound, it is all the same financial mess.

[JanetC]

However, the government apparently believes that we should be homeless and staving given the EFC they have identified and then multiplied by TWO instead of cutting us a break for having two college students at once.

 

This is quite literally true. The federal formula income protection allowance is based on poverty level from the 1960's with an adjustment based on the social security cost of living adjustment.

 

In FAFSA world, a family of six, with one in college, can live on 37,870, A family of four only needs 27,400. Crazy!

[FaithManor]

Janet, this year when we filled out FAFSA I kept alcohol and gluten free chocolate cheesecake next to the computer so DH and I could "drown our misery". Wasn't much of a drowning since dh and are super duper light drinkers, LOL! My hips on the other hand and that cheesecake.......

[bettyandbob]

I know not everyone has this, when I hear financial safety I think 4 year state university driving distance from my home or the combination of the cc with transfer agreement and that state university.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

For us, nothing was really a financial safety as there isn't much DH and I can afford with two in college and helping raise our DGD while DD is in school. Every school DS applied to was a crap shoot.  

 

After admissions and scholarship competitions, his financial safety became a Tier 3 public uni 2.5 hours away to which he was awarded a full ride.  The other instate school he applied to (the flagship) wanted 3X our EFC, even after he was awarded the top scholarships and assumed the maximum student loan.  Our local CC isn't strong in the sciences and DS would have had no opportunity for research or independent study, so that was never truly an option for him.

[G5052]

Janet, this year when we filled out FAFSA I kept alcohol and gluten free chocolate cheesecake next to the computer so DH and I could "drown our misery". Wasn't much of a drowning since dh and are super duper light drinkers, LOL! My hips on the other hand and that cheesecake.......

 

You and me both. I poured myself a glass of chardonnay and made up a cheese-and-cracker plate. Complete agony because there's no way we could afford even 1/4 of what they say, and DS's school requires it before any consideration of merit aid.

[Mom22ns]

Ds goes to a small private LAC. It was the only place he really wanted to go. I encouraged (forced) him to apply to the local state U where he got their top automatic scholarship and could have lived at home. It would have just cost a couple thousand a year and we could have done that easily. He didn't want to go there, but until we got all the scholarship info in from the LAC to be sure he could go there... I required he apply to a financial safety.

 

The local State U would not have been free for ds. If finances were tighter still, we'd have used the local CC for a financial safety.

 

My definition of a financial safety is a school you are sure your children can get into and you are sure whoever is paying will be able to afford. What that means to each family varies.

[Lori D.]

Lucky Mama, 8FillTheHeart, and JanetC have GREAT ideas for you. :)

 

We didn't have super high test scores or GPA, so, like many of the others in this thread, the Financial Safety for us with our specific financial and academic situation turned out to be start at the CC and transfer. The savings from the CC, plus DS earning transfer scholarships, allowed him to go to the smaller, in-state, private college 2 hours away (and live on campus there) -- otherwise, the transfer would have been to the public state university in our city and live at home/commute for the rest of the years to earn the Bachelor's.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Lori D.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

How do you identify financially "safe" schools?  A school your student is sure to get in to AND has great aid/meets full need/etc?  I feel as if the schools that are a great financial option for us are also not safety schools per se - DD meets their scores and gpa, etc but these are schools where the admittance rate is rather rocky for anyone.  Finances will be a huge barrier for us for DD and college.  The EFC calculator for many schools is simply more than we can ever pay as well which is making this process very scary for DD.  She may get National Merit which might provide a great financial safety, but we won't know that until fall.

 

As we seek to narrow down her application list, I just wonder...how did YOU determine a school was fairly safe financially?  If you have already worked through this with a kid, was your gamble pretty safe?

 

Thanks  

 

We looked for a couple things.

 

-Schools where ds would be in the upper 25% of incoming freshmen.  I think the college search function on College Confidential lets you set that as a criteria.

-Schools that had automatic merit aid based on test scores and grades.  Bonus is there was a larger grant amount for OOS or if the aid above a certain level was a % of tuition.  For example, Miami University (Ohio) has half to full scholarships for certain SAT/ACT scores.  This brought the cost down to slightly below in state tuition level.

 

We looked at a mix of public and private schools, rather than assuming that one category would be automatically better.  

 

What was the biggest help is the Navy ROTC scholarship DS earned.  This will cover full tuition, books and a monthly stipend.  His scholarship was assigned to the school he listed as his first choice.  That school also gave him a $5000 merit scholarship.  The cost to attend will come down to room & board plus personal costs.  For students with an interest in becoming officers in the military, this is a great route.  The service committment after graduation is 5-9 years, depending on service assignment (it is longer for pilots, which is ds's goal).

[JanetC]

-Schools where ds would be in the upper 25% of incoming freshmen. I think the college search function on College Confidential lets you set that as a criteria.

 

More specifically, you are in the upper 25% of freshmen and can afford the cost of attendance minus the maximum merit award (most merit awards are not full-ride!) or even better, the cost of attendance minus the average merit award.

 

DD received the maximum merit award at a private LAC. Her in-state safety is cheaper than both. (Her in-state safety also happens to be the cheapest four-year campus in our state system, though that's not why she chose it - your in-state tuition could very well be higher.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

More specifically, you are in the upper 25% of freshmen and can afford the cost of attendance minus the maximum merit award (most merit awards are not full-ride!) or even better, the cost of attendance minus the average merit award.

 

DD received the maximum merit award at a private LAC. Her in-state safety is cheaper than both. (Her in-state safety also happens to be the cheapest four-year campus in our state system, though that's not why she chose it - your in-state tuition could very well be higher.)

 

Yes, it is good to be aware of what the max awards are and if that would be anything affordable or not.

 

I think starting with the schools where the student is above average is a good jumping off point.  If the student's stats are at the mean, there is probably less of a chance of being accepted at all, and the likelihood of getting any merit aid is lower.

 

For a higher stat kid, honors colleges and specialty learning communities can them create a niche within a larger university.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Sebastian (a lady)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Also, assuming that you are talking about a current junior or younger, plan to get college applications in early, rather than later.  Priority consideration for scholarships is usually well before the regular admissions deadlines.  DS ran into several that were Nov 1 for scholarship priority.  

[JanetC]

Also, assuming that you are talking about a current junior or younger, plan to get college applications in early, rather than later.  Priority consideration for scholarships is usually well before the regular admissions deadlines.  DS ran into several that were Nov 1 for scholarship priority.  

 

I kept hearing this, but every time I looked at the colleges on DD's list, I could find no evidence for it. Now that I'm starting new lists for DD#2, I'm seeing it. I think it has to do with the fact that DD#1 applied to small schools only. The schools that specifically say they want apps by Nov 1st for scholarships all seem to be large universities with huge application pools to sort through. It certainly can't hurt (and probably helps) to be an early applicant to the small schools as well, but they don't have Nov 1st scholarship deadlines as frequently. my current senior got scholarships from apps she finished over Christmas break.

[Ann.without.an.e]

We were thinking that NC State would be a good safety school for DD but their NPC is much, much higher for us than any other school.  I can't figure out why?

[JanetC]

Your financial safety budget includes:

A) What you can pay out of your income and savings

.

Forgot to add, plus the American Opportunity Tax Credit. If you pay 4,000 towards eligible college expenses out of your income, savings, or even a parent loan, and are not claiming any other education tax benefit with that money (e.g. taking money from a 529 is already considered getting a tax break), you can qualify for a 2500 tax credit.

 

Notes:

1. The credit phases out at higher income levels

2. The credit is only partially refundable if your tax bill is less than 2500

 

But for a typical case, if you apply this tax credit towards college, you can pay 6500 worth of college expenses for 4000.

 

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/AOTC

[JanetC]

We were thinking that NC State would be a good safety school for DD but their NPC is much, much higher for us than any other school. I can't figure out why?

Sometimes it's because a state school has a very low financial aid budget. (Pennsylvania is notorious for this.) Or, some states have weird financial aid systems where you apply for a tuition grant from a state financial aid agency rather than from the school directly. Only way to know is to ask the school.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Forgot to add, plus the American Opportunity Tax Credit. If you pay 4,000 towards eligible college expenses out of your income, savings, or even a parent loan, and are not claiming any other education tax benefit with that money (e.g. taking money from a 529 is already considered getting a tax break), you can qualify for a 2500 tax credit.

 

Notes:

1. The credit phases out at higher income levels

2. The credit is only partially refundable if your tax bill is less than 2500

 

But for a typical case, if you apply this tax credit towards college, you can pay 6500 worth of college expenses for 4000.

 

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/AOTC

 

 

I completely forgot about the tax credit - happy dance.  Serioulsy, that will be the thing that makes this doable for us.  I actually simulated it in Turbo tax and it turned our tax bill into a tax credit.  When she goes to school we will get money back :party:

[Dmmetler]

Also, check low cost of living states. If you can find an out of state school that does out of state tuition waivers for test scores and is a low cost place to get housing, it can sometimes be less expensive than an in-state public. A lot of southwestern states seem to be pretty affordable.

[JeanM]

I completely forgot about the tax credit - happy dance.  Serioulsy, that will be the thing that makes this doable for us.  I actually simulated it in Turbo tax and it turned our tax bill into a tax credit.  When she goes to school we will get money back :party:

 

Just FYI, I believe that tax credit is going to expire in 2017. Hopefully it will be renewed!

 

[GoodGrief]

Re: the discussion on early deadlines, some of the smaller schools do have special scholarship programs that require an early application so that one can get an invitation to their scholarship weekend. This information can be hard to find though!

[KarenNC]

If looking at out of state schools, don't forget to factor in transportation costs to and from home to the mix. I don't believe that is usually listed in cost of attendance estimates. Air fare can really add up, as well as limiting what can be taken with the student (clothes, outfitting a dorm room, etc).

 

I have seen a couple of schools that require a nomination from the student's school or guidance counselor (which would be you) to be considered for the top merit award, so keep an eye out for that.

 

Our current strategy is to look at lower-ranked schools within reasonable driving distance where my daughter is very top stats and there is at least the option of full scholarship and which stack outside scholarships, as well as maximizing testing and dual enrollment opportunities while she's in high school (cc has a slate of classes for free tuition for juniors and seniors, with an articulation agreement to all our state schools and many private ones). Her ultimate safety is the local community college while working to save for transfer to a 4 year school. Her interests are humanities-based (English, history, women's studies, sociology, etc), which helps.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by KarenNC

[Ann.without.an.e]

Just FYI, I believe that tax credit is going to expire in 2017. Hopefully it will be renewed!

 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Charleigh

[FaithManor]

I need that darn tax credit to renew, badly. That is about the only thing out there that is helping the middle class at all!

 

We used the tax credit this year to put away for ds for next year which freed up a few dollars for middle ds. GAH! Without that, this whole thing just keeps getting harder and harder.