Am I totally heartless?

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm not much for the public drama of mourning a celebrity, but I am one that feels sadness when an artist I particularly admire and have felt touched by their work.  I definitely felt that with Princess Di, Robin Williams, Phillip Seymour Hoffman and a few others.  Not so much that I would say that I was in mourning, but definitely saddened.  Hearing about David Bowie yesterday just surprised me (because he was so successful at keeping his illness private) and saddened me for his family.  But I didn't think much of it.  However, at the climbing gym yesterday, they played Bowie non-stop and felt more touched as I remembered so much more of his music. 

 

An interesting aside ... I know this man who is pretty self-posessed, never really expressing much emotion even when some really difficult things happened to him.  He's a very compassionate person, but not outwardly emotional.  He's not one to post anything very personal on social media, just pictures of his kids once in a while.  But he did post about being saddened by David Bowie's passing ... he commented about how, when looking through his old albums from his teen years, he began to see the impact of Bowie on his youth as he found that he owned more DB albums than anything else.  I was surprised, not that he felt saddened by his passing, but that it affected him so much that he was so unusually expressive in such a public way.  So, I guess everyone is different.  And you never know what may affect you deeply. 

[TranquilMind]

I've watched people mourn MJ, Whitney Houston, Robin Williams and now David Bowie. Every time I think, "how sad" but that's it. I honesty can't think of a single celebrity that has touched me to a degree that I would care when they died. Maybe because I grew up without much media? Or maybe I am just heartless?

It saddens me more for the families.  I've lost almost everyone.  I know how they feel.  It's always sad to me when someone dies too young, whether I knew him or not. 

 

That's every one of us in just a New York minute. 

[Word Nerd]

So, I guess everyone is different.  And you never know what may affect you deeply. 

 

Exactly. I think it's insensitive when people make emotionally obtuse comments such as anyone who feels deeply about a celebrity's death needs to get a life. Just because a death doesn't affect (the general) you personally doesn't mean there's something wrong with the people who had a different reaction.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Word Nerd

[MrsWeasley]

Maybe I'm heartless. I have long felt very ambivalent about David Bowie. Some of his work had a big influence on my life when I was younger, but learning of the sexual assault charges definitely diminished my love of him. 

[Tsuga]

I've watched people mourn MJ, Whitney Houston, Robin Williams and now David Bowie. Every time I think, "how sad" but that's it. I honesty can't think of a single celebrity that has touched me to a degree that I would care when they died. Maybe because I grew up without much media? Or maybe I am just heartless?

 

I don't think so--you just haven't had someone with whom you really identified pass. I mean, presumably you mourn when people you know personally die, right?

 

For me, I didn't shed a tear for any of those celebs. But I do have artists that have really changed my life, very few that really, really touched me. And I will mourn them.

 

Bowie? Well, yeah, too bad, but he was old, is basically my thought on his passing. But he wasn't "my guy", you know?

[Tsuga]

I'm right there with you. I don't even know most celebrities, and I don't understand why people care about celebreties at all and, for example, pay attention to their opinions or listen to their advice - that's the most bizarre thing to me.

The bliss of living without TV.

 

Why... what does David Bowie have to do with television? As I mention above, not my guy, but TV?  It wasn't what he said. He developed the genre of popular music, available to most of us on our parents' knees in the form of vinyl from an early age. I don't think I've ever seen Bowie on TV, except when my friend brought over Labyrinth on tape. 

 

I think that people don't connect with celebrities' opinions so much, but with the art. Art shares ideas through time and space like little else can. When an artist dies, you lose the person who clarified an idea, a thought, a feeling, an experience with you.

 

What about if a writer died? To me, this is the same thing. I wouldn't cry if a physicist died. It has to be an artist. They are are connectors in society, connectors of ideas. I think it makes perfect sense to mourn their passing. It's like you take a huge node from the network of ideas and mental space.

[Tsuga]

you're not heartless.

 

when I was very young (and due to my upbringing) had a big desire to "feel" connected and valued-by to someone, somewhere.  I was more voyaristic in "celebrities".  as I developed confidence in myself and my own worth - and satisfcation in my own REAL life with REAL people and REAL connections - I moved on.

 

I pay little attention to celebrities.  and I certainly don't go around mourning deaths (of only a very very select few) beyond a moment or two. if that.

 

 

Do you care about art? That is a serious question. Do you care about art, about artists?

 

My connection with David Bowie is weak and one-directional but it is a REAL life connection between REAL people in REAL life.

 

It simply isn't the same type of connection I have with my mother.

[idnib]

For me there's a difference between "celebrities" and "artists" although they overlap sometimes. I mourn the loss of people I consider artists because I feel  humanity is poorer for them being gone. They arrive, make their mark for however long life allows them to and then go away, never again to add their work to the canon. That window has closed and now you can examine or admire the entirely of their contribution, knowing there will be nothing else can ever be added to this unique artist's body of work. I often mourn the closing of that window, even if I'm only a casual fan.

 

I recently finished Between the World and Me, by Ta-Nehisi Coates. In it, he writes about Saul Bellow asking, "Who is the Tolstoy of the Zulus?" Ralph Wiley responded, "Tolstoy is the Tolstoy of the Zulus, unless you find a profit in fencing off universal properties of mankind into exclusive tribal ownership." That's how I feel about great artists and their contributions, whether in writing, music, acting, painting, sculpture, etc. They add their square to the quilt of humanity and then leave the room. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by idnib

[Tsuga]

Idnib. Your signature link. Thank you.

[gardenmom5]

Yeah, so when the heck does this end? When he's 20?

 

I was starting to feel more "normal" when 2ds was 12 - then I got pg with dudeling.  he's been *very* intense, but I'm starting to feel "normal" again.

[fraidycat]

...

 

Any man's death diminishes me,

because I am involved in mankind;

and therefore never send to know

for whom the bell tolls;

it tolls for thee.

 

~ John Donne

 

---------

 

I usually feel kind of heartless in that I don't feel grief or moved to tears. I will think "oh that sucks" or similar, but not FEEL sad. But, I do feel empathy for the close family and friends for the loss of their loved one so will take a few moments to hope for peace and comfort for them.

[gardenmom5]

Do you care about art? That is a serious question. Do you care about art, about artists?

 

My connection with David Bowie is weak and one-directional but it is a REAL life connection between REAL people in REAL life.

 

It simply isn't the same type of connection I have with my mother.

 

My idea of music is baroque. my preferred instrument - a piano - specifially a concert grand. (boesendorfer) yes, there is a difference in sound. (claudio arrau playing chopin- pitter patter).  for modern muscians - give me john williams the classical guitarist (as opposed to john williams the composer, though I enjoy his work too.  steven spielberg did attribute at least half the success of jaws to the musical score.)  so, I listen to alot of music written by people already dead.  JW is an exception.  though I'd probably get in line to bonk carl orff over the head for destroying everything he wrote prior to carmina burana - because he thought it wasn't any good.  and I've made it a point to attened every PNB performance of carmina burana . (well, *a* performance, each time they have performed it.)  it's been helpful with latin as well.

 

 

I've listened to my share of pop music in high school, and occasionally will listen to a classic pop-rock station that caters to my age group (I was forced to listen to heavy metal/acid rock at full volume for several years earlier in my life. . . . so even though it wasn't my choice, I have familarity with that genre too. I loath LOATH excessive bass. I can feel it in every cell of my body. and it makes me phyiscally ill.). 

 

I'm delighted I've reached the point I can now listen to a musican - and be able to distinguish the difference that says "you need a better instrument."

Edited January 12, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Tsuga]

My idea of music is baroque. my preferred instrument - a piano - specifially a concert grand. (boesendorfer) yes, there is a difference in sound. (claudio arrau playing chopin- pitter patter).  for modern muscians - give me john williams the classical guitarist (as opposed to john williams the composer, though I enjoy his work too.  steven spielberg did attribute at least half the success of jaws to the musical score.)  so, I listen to alot of music written by people already dead.  JW is an exception.  though I'd probably get in line to bonk carl orff over the head for destroying everything he wrote prior to carmina burana - because he thought it wasn't any good.  and I've made it a point to attened every PNB performance of carmina burana . (well, *a* performance, each time they have performed it.)  it's been helpful with latin as well.

 

I love, love, love Carmina Burana... and I share your feeling about bonking Carl Orff over the head. When I told my daughter this she gasped... but she herself does the same thing. We can't afford to go every time but I've been twice now.

 

 

I've listened to my share of pop music in high school, and occasionally will listen to a classic pop-rock station that caters to my age group (I was forced to listen to heavy metal/acid rock at full volume for several years earlier in my life. . . . so even though it wasn't my choice, I have familarity with that genre too. I loath LOATH excessive bass. I can feel it in every cell of my body. and it makes me phyiscally ill.). 

 

I'm delighted I've reached the point I can now listen to a musican - and be able to distinguish the difference that says "you need a better instrument."

 

I guess my question is, do you not have any feelings about these musicians, their lives, their trials, perhaps even their deaths? I know that I shed a tear for Edna St. Vincent Millay and Sylvia Plath and they died before I was born. I still "miss" them. Not everyone cries, but no feelings, no sense of human connection with those people?

 

I think that is what is missed by some in this conversation. It's not imagining you know someone you don't know.

 

It's a real connection, one that was deliberately set up by the artist as they cast their lines far and wide because they couldn't help it, and they caught some people with their lines. Some caught millions, some even billions, some thousands, some very few. But those are REAL. The connection through art is very real. They found beauty out of the chaos of life and created lines to share it with all of us.

 

Boy, John Williams. I don't have to think he was the Best Composer of All Time to be able to say that he caught me with his line, with his hard, he touched me, not physically but in a real way. I will mourn his passing, for sure, may he live many decades more!

 

I don't mind so much that you say that you don't mourn anyone.

 

I do mind that you seem to dismiss the connection across space and time as "not real". To some of us, the connection we found through music and literature were the human connections that kept us alive until we were older and could relate to other people... I don't think that's only immaturity. I think that children have tender little souls and artists may see the beauty and tenderness as children, so they can relate to them.

 

"Pick up your socks!" is not something a child can relate to. But my daughter can relate to Rossini. And yes, at six, she does ask, "Is he dead?" And when I say yes, she cries. They both do. Rossini, dead??? Beethoven, deaf! It brings tears to their eyes, mine too. You who shared the beauty of the world with humanity--hello! Isn't that what every piece of art is? "Hello! Over here, something beautiful, coming through me! Hello! Hello! Hello!"

 

"Hello! I hear you! It is beautiful, thank you for sharing!" I know they don't always hear us back, and that's tragic. I hope that when a neglected artist sees others vindicated over time, that she can think, "They will tug the line later, maybe after I'm dead, but someday."

 

That's why we celebrate art and mourn artists.

 

Celebrities, no, I don't get. But hey, maybe there is an art in that as well, and I don't understand it. The line was not cast for me.

[gardenmom5]

 

 

I don't mind so much that you say that you don't mourn anyone.

 

 

*I* never said I don't mourn anyone - I said I don't mourn celebrities. there  might be an in passing, oh, I liked their work, they seemed like a good person, etc.  most of them were elderly when they died, and had already been out of the limelight.

 

as I have already mentioned in this thread - I did pause when robin williams died, and I do empathize with his children. Nothing I feel will make a difference for them, though I may "send them good thoughts and support".

 

I'm sorry robin struggled with depression.  it's not easy - so did my father.  and like robin, my father also killed himself.

 

I will say - the depth of pain I felt upon my father's death (when I had just turned 12) - I doubt I will EVER feel such depth of grief and anguish again. it wiped it out of me. My view of death has also greatly altered from that time period. diametrically opposed altered.  even when my mother died, I felt sad, I missed her - but I never cried. I also have a very strong belief (it is MORE than mere belief - though I do not wish to discuss details), that life continues after we physically die.  that really is a game changer.

Edited January 12, 2016 by gardenmom5

[KungFuPanda]

You kind of have to choose what bothers you. If EVERYTHING struck a chord with you you'd be miserable all the time.

[Tsuga]

*I* never said I don't mourn anyone - I said I don't mourn celebrities. there  might be an in passing, oh, I liked their work, they seemed like a good person, etc.  most of them were elderly when they died, and had already been out of the limelight.

 

as I have already mentioned in this thread - I did pause when robin williams died, and I do empathize with his children. Nothing I feel will make a difference for them, though I may "send them good thoughts and support".

 

I'm sorry robin struggled with depression.  it's not easy - so did my father.  and like robin, my father also killed himself.

 

I will say - the depth of pain I felt upon my father's death (when I had just turned 12) - I doubt I will EVER feel such depth of grief and anguish again. it wiped it out of me. My view of death has also greatly altered from that time period. diametrically opposed altered.  even when my mother died, I felt sad, I missed her - but I never cried. I also have a very strong belief (it is MORE than mere belief - though I do not wish to discuss details), that life continues after we physically die.  that really is a game changer.

 

So sorry, I meant anyone famous. It never sounded like you didn't mourn any other person! That was a rude omission on my part.

[Word Nerd]

I just saw this tweet:

 

Juliette @ElusiveJ
Thinking about how we mourn artists we've never met. We don't cry because we knew them, we cry because they helped us know ourselves.

[Guest]

I just saw this tweet:

 

Juliette @ElusiveJ

Thinking about how we mourn artists we've never met. We don't cry because we knew them, we cry because they helped us know ourselves.

Bingo. She nailed it.

[kiwik]

Sorry

Edited January 13, 2016 by kiwik

[Reefgazer]

I'm with you.  A general moment and sadness for their passing, but that's it.

I've watched people mourn MJ, Whitney Houston, Robin Williams and now David Bowie. Every time I think, "how sad" but that's it. I honesty can't think of a single celebrity that has touched me to a degree that I would care when they died. Maybe because I grew up without much media? Or maybe I am just heartless?

 

[Word Nerd]

Geek mom had an article about this

 

Don't be afraid to grieve for Professor Snape

 

 

http://geekmom.com/2016/01/dont-be-afraid-to-grieve-for-professor-snape/

 

After reading that, I'm curious whether those who've posted they aren't affected much by the deaths of artists and other famous personalities ever get very attached to fictional characters. 

[Alicia64]

huh?  she had a tense (at best) relationship with her mother.

and sometimes, drunks crash cars.  especially when driving fast trying to evade papparazzi.

 

 

 

Garden -- I had the impression that her mom was narcissistic. Back when, I could probably give details. I can't now.

 

I know that we don't really know these people at all. It's all a veneer that's first put through the media. So a double veneer! But I was young when she was on the scene and I didn't understand the veneer thing.

 

I do remember her telling Martin Bashear that her in laws wanted to off her in some "maybe in a car accident." It seemed odd to me.

 

Personally, I think I get sad when people pass because it's a symbol of my age . . . and a time in my life that's now gone.

 

Alley

[regentrude]

Why is it bizarre to care about people you don't know personally?

 

I said I find it bizarre that  people care about the celebreties opinions and take their advice, and I stand by that.

I do not find it bizarre to admire a musician or actor and respect their work, but I find it bizarre to take advice from one in an area that is not their expertise. Advice about music and acting - sure. Advice about health, wellness, medical issues, relationships - nope. What I find bizarre is that plenty of people seem to do just that: if a famous person has uttered an opinion, it must be more worth than the opinion of the old lady down the street.

 

 

 

Isn't that a part of being empathetic? Have you ever listened to music or read a book and it brought you to tears, either from joy or sadness. Personally, the comment about the bliss of living without TV reeks of snootiness, as if living TV free keeps you above the rest. I've seen that often here. Do you also not listen to the radio, listen to news, read books? You can't escape popular culture, and giving more than a damn about a person, celebrity or not, should ever be deemed bizarre.

The bliss about living without TV has nothing to do with being "above the rest". I mainly choose not to engage with certain aspects of popular culture because I have no interest in it, and I save energy by not worrying about celebreties' or famous people's lives.

I assure you that I have plenty of empathy, for people I encounter in my real life.

Being sad about the death of a famous person is not, IMO, empathy.

 

I do listen to the radio and follow the news, but I fail to see what that has to do with it.

 

 

Could this lack of empathy be because of the horrible conditions in the country you were raised in?

 

You clearly have no idea of what you speak.

Edited January 15, 2016 by regentrude

[regentrude]

Why... what does David Bowie have to do with television? As I mention above, not my guy, but TV?

 

The reference to TV was not specifically because of DB, but  because of general references to celebreties. Most times when people mention famous people, those are people that are on TV. Actors have been mentioned, for example. Mr. Rogers, too (who I assume had a TV show?) At least, very often when names are brought up here, or on fb, I have not the foggiest idea who that person is - so i can only assume it is because of my lack of TV.

 

 

 

It wasn't what he said. He developed the genre of popular music, available to most of us on our parents' knees in the form of vinyl from an early age. I don't think I've ever seen Bowie on TV, except when my friend brought over Labyrinth on tape.

Not my parents knees. And not me.

Yep,  I watched Labyrith once with the kids and disliked the movie.

 

 

 

 

I think that people don't connect with celebrities' opinions so much, but with the art. Art shares ideas through time and space like little else can. When an artist dies, you lose the person who clarified an idea, a thought, a feeling, an experience with you.

What about if a writer died? To me, this is the same thing. I wouldn't cry if a physicist died. It has to be an artist. They are are connectors in society, connectors of ideas. I think it makes perfect sense to mourn their passing. It's like you take a huge node from the network of ideas and mental space.

 

I may make a note of their passing, and then move on. This morning, several friends posted that they cried because Allan Rickman died. I liked his performance, he was a good actor, it is a loss that he died - but I do not mourn. The art lives on.

 

All of my favorite artists have been dead several hundreds of years. They were dead before I even learned of their art. So, no, I never cried that Bach died, even though I consider him the greatest composer of all.

[regentrude]

Regentrude, I know you are a scientist.  Is there a current well-known scientist, living right now, whose work you admire?  If so, when that person dies, will you have a bit of sadness over the loss of that person's talent, expertise, brilliance in his/her field?      I don't know... Stephen Hawking, Peter Higgs?    If you were alive when Einstein died (I don't think you were), do you think you would have felt sadness for that loss?

 

That is what some of us are talking about.  Not the person's celebrity per se, but the contributions the person made in the field for which they are famous - for example, music or other art.  

 

Honest questions; when I read over my post I think it might sound a little condescending but if so, I don't mean it to.

 

I don't think so. I admire their contributions, respect their intellect, marvel at their genius  - but in an abstract way. I feel no deep connection with them as people and certainly have zero interest in their personal lives.

We would register and mention the passing of that person, but I do not think I would shed tears or feel distraught.

 

[regentrude]

Ah, maybe it my lack of Bach that makes me weep for Bowie.

High culture/low culture divide at play.

 

I don't know about that. It's just that having grown up with only classical music in the home of a classical musician certainly shaped my taste and preferences.

 

I don't really understand the disdain for popular culture that is supposed to mark one out as - idk ? More educated ? Less susceptible to the emotional excesses of the masses ?

 

Your words, not mine.

We can all be allowed to have our tastes. You are free not to care about the baroque; I reserve the right not to care about rock music.

Edited January 15, 2016 by regentrude

[idnib]

All of my favorite artists have been dead several hundreds of years. They were dead before I even learned of their art. So, no, I never cried that Bach died, even though I consider him the greatest composer of all.

 

Perhaps this makes a difference? If you had lived at the time of Bach and loved his music, and saw the possibility of any more music from him actually conclude in your lifetime, maybe you would have felt the loss, even if only for a few days? By the time you were introduced to him you had access to his entire body of work and are fully aware there will never be anymore. While an artist is living there is always hope of one more play, novel, song, composition, or movie.

[Tsuga]

The reference to TV was not specifically because of DB, but  because of general references to celebreties. Most times when people mention famous people, those are people that are on TV. Actors have been mentioned, for example. Mr. Rogers, too (who I assume had a TV show?) At least, very often when names are brought up here, or on fb, I have not the foggiest idea who that person is - so i can only assume it is because of my lack of TV.

 

I think your assumption is wrong. I think that you have not heard of some people--Mr. Rogers was a pastor turned educator who delivered his work through television, not a "celebrity" per se, certainly didn't live that life--just because nobody can hear of everybody. Your assumption that whatever you haven't heard of is therefore mere "celebrity" and not art is irksome to me.

 

 

 

Not my parents knees. And not me.

 

Of course not everyone--the point was to say that some experienced his work as art, not as celebrity media, and it is unfair to lump it like that.

 

Yep,  I watched Labyrith once with the kids and disliked the movie.

 

So you have a mass media experience of Bowie and are generalizing from that. Imagine if my only experience of Mozart (not to compare Bowie to Mozart musically as being on the same level but they were both composers and musicians and performers) was through the movie Amadeus. Something happens regarding Mozart and I say, "Oh I wouldn't know, I don't watch 80s historical movies." Would that not be unfair to Mozart? I don't know because I don't know about that genre. Period. It has nothing to do with television, which I didn't grow up with, either.

 

 

All of my favorite artists have been dead several hundreds of years. They were dead before I even learned of their art. So, no, I never cried that Bach died, even though I consider him the greatest composer of all.

 

I think it is interesting that some here cannot identify with ANY poets or artists born in this century. There are thousands of them--hundreds, truly great, and there are more people alive than ever before at one time. Certainly those who have persisted centuries have faced a more stringent cultural filtration process, so I don't doubt that they are more likely to be better, but they aren't all better. Why, right now I am reading Eleanor Catton. She is a true genius and in my opinion surpasses many classic authors. I love many dead artists, but also make a point of appreciating those who are alive. However, even if art isn't your interest (and by "art" I mean literature, music, representational, abstract, performing), I don't see the point of demeaning that art that you don't care for or haven't heard of by suggesting that you wouldn't know because you don't have a television.

 

It IS insulting because most artists would almost certainly rather be recognized and paid without fame, but on the basis of their creation, because people would give up a few meals for a piece of art; sadly, in our era of mass-production, that is not possible. Still, those who achieve fame are not "mere" celebrities. Many are also artists.

 

​I love Yann Tiersen. I do not have the leisure to have discovered him outside of French film. He is lovely. Not classically trained but he has the music in him, as they say... Bach? No, but wonderful nonetheless. I also like Daft Punk, probably not your style, but there they are. There is so much beyond perfection, so much in the struggle of the living artist. 

 

I also think you may be missing out by letting other people filter your music for you. Yes, Bach has been canonized for good reason. But there are many great living composers who also deserve a listen. You don't care for soul or pop? No problem! Modern classical is alive and well and I don't mean soundtracks. (I have heard some of these, not all--my interest is Spanish guitar--http://mic.com/articles/90713/9-brilliant-contemporary-composers-who-prove-classical-music-isn-t-dead#.LGATK0Riy). You don't like abstract art, but prefer the Dutch masters? Or just portraits? No problem-- http://www.caseybaughfineart.comis just  one portraitist who does modern portraits.

 

http://juliusvonbismarck.com

 

Art is not dead, why are your favorites artists all dead?

 

I would not give you these links but that you said ALL of your favorite artists have been dead.

 

And as for literature, I simply cannot believe Eleanor Catton. Frankly I wouldn't be shocked if it's a sham and her mother put her on the book. But we are promised by her mentors and professors that it's really her, that she is really a genius. How often does a book drop your jaw? And I didn't even know how old she was. I'm talking it up too much of course... but really, she's amazing. New Zealand has produced a remarkable crop of young people this generation, truly.

 

I don't want to tell you to like what you don't like, but i do think that if you have NO favorite artists that lived within the 20th century (for surely then, some would have died during your lifetime... ) then there is a chance you are losing your chance to connect with modern artists.

 

And really... Kurt Vonnegut... he who wrote Slaughterhouse Five, who died in our lifetime, during the 2008 election, god I died that day, you perhaps did not cry or die inside, but honestly, did you read Breakfast of Champions and Slaughterhouse Five and Galapagos and decide, "No, not as good as Jane Austen" or did you just not read them because it's modern? What about Gunter Grass? Salman Rushdie? Frankly I don't see how he can't make it into anyone's top ten who loves books. Maybe I'm biased but I thought Midnight's Children (which did after all win the Booker of Bookers, so it's not just me) was incredible. Who has not thought, "Those bastards better not kill him! Or else!" Not that we have anything else, of course. He'll just die, plain and simple.

 

I'll cry.

 

I can't stand the "high" culture designation. I've been to more operas than many will in a lifetime, I go so often that the Seattle Opera thinks I have money to give them (I bought a ticket, that was it, folks) and I get advertisements for Depends. And that's just in Seattle! But I also truly love Neil Young and Neko Case. I don't think it's because I'm too stupid to know the difference. I see the beauty in them all.

[Ellie]

FTR, I wept this morning when I learned that Alan Rickman had died. :crying:

[Guest]

FTR, I wept this morning when I learned that Alan Rickman had died. :crying:

I maintain everyone has *someone* outside their immediate circle whose work has touched them. Some just have t lost that someone yet. Be it a religious figure, politician, artist, author, whatever.

[Tsuga]

FTR, I wept this morning when I learned that Alan Rickman had died. :crying:

 

I am sorry. 

[regentrude]

Your post is very difficult to quote because you replied inside the quote, but I'll try.

 

I think your assumption is wrong. I think that you have not heard of some people--Mr. Rogers was a pastor turned educator who delivered his work through television, not a "celebrity" per se, certainly didn't live that life--just because nobody can hear of everybody. Your assumption that whatever you haven't heard of is therefore mere "celebrity" and not art is irksome to me.

 

...I don't see the point of demeaning that art that you don't care for or haven't heard of by suggesting that you wouldn't know because you don't have a television.

 

That is not at all how I meant it. I have, over the years, simply frequently made the experience that I have not heard of some people everybody seems to know because I do not watch TV. This is no comment about people's abilities or value and not demeaning, but simply a statement that I have not been exposed to information about xyz person.

 

 

I think it is interesting that some here cannot identify with ANY poets or artists born in this century. There are thousands of them--hundreds, truly great, and there are more people alive than ever before at one time. Certainly those who have persisted centuries have faced a more stringent cultural filtration process, so I don't doubt that they are more likely to be better, but they aren't all better.

I would not give you these links but that you said ALL of your favorite artists have been dead.

 

I don't want to tell you to like what you don't like, but i do think that if you have NO favorite artists that lived within the 20th century (for surely then, some would have died during your lifetime... ) then there is a chance you are losing your chance to connect with modern artists.

 

I can't stand the "high" culture designation. I've been to more operas than many will in a lifetime, I go so often that the Seattle Opera thinks I have money to give them (I bought a ticket, that was it, folks) and I get advertisements for Depends. And that's just in Seattle! But I also truly love Neil Young and Neko Case. I don't think it's because I'm too stupid to know the difference. I see the beauty in them all.

 

I never said I do not know or appreciate any modern artists, nor did I make any value statement about different forms of art. I merely said that all my favorite artists are long dead - relevant in the context of this thread only because it means that I am accustomed to artists whose work I love being dead. That was ALL I meant to say.

I have not talked about anything being high or low culture - this interpretation of my post was suggested by another poster. I am sorry my statement could be misread in that way.

 

Art is not dead, why are your favorites artists all dead?

Because my favorite art happens to be Baroque and Renaissance music.

Again, the operative word is favorite. I never said I am ignorant of  modern art. And I do love the works of certain authors who died during my lifetime. So no need to make "suggestions" for me - that came across as mildly condescending. (Btw, I cannot warm up to Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse in which my home town features prominently, and I am still not through Midnight Children, but liked Shame.)

 

But again on the point of "identifying" with an artist, since you used those words: no, I usually don't identify with the artist.. I can like and appreciate and love and even be obsessed with a work, but that, for me personally, does not translate into an attachment to the artist as a person. (It used to, when I was very young; I recall a pilgrimage to the grave site of one of my favorite dead composers at age 13. But it no longer does.)

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by regentrude