Ivy League school application

[Ann.without.an.e]

DD (a junior) wants to submit an application to one Ivy League school.  She is a very strong student.  She has a passion for writing and literature and she's extremely gifted in this area.  She is equally strong in Mathematics but she doesn't have the passion for it that she does for English Literature.  She is in the top 1% for the PSAT and her 10th grade ACT score is in the top 2%.  She hasn't actually taken the ACT this year, she takes it in March.  She will also take the SAT for the first time this month. She will have great recommendations from outside sources, a good service record, and some strong extracurricular activities.  Lots of AP classes with all 5's (so far).  Which Ivy for my dd and why?  This is completely based on your own opinion, no wrong answer here :coolgleamA:

 

ETA - I am not suggesting that dd getting in to an Ivy school is a given.  I know that she could very well be rejected.  Because of the slim chances of acceptance, she wants to focus her application efforts on more likely schools closer to home and thus she doesn't want to apply to all of the Ivy Leagues.  If she were to get into the Ivy, she would legitimately consider going.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Charleigh

[Cosmos]

I would make campus environment a consideration. Does she want an urban setting or small-town/rural? Big campus or smaller? Cold snowy winters or slightly milder winters?

[Ann.without.an.e]

I would make campus environment a consideration. Does she want an urban setting or small-town/rural? Big campus or smaller? Cold snowy winters or slightly milder winters?

 

 

I knew I was forgetting some key info :thumbup1:  Thank you.  She prefers a medium sized campus and not a large city.  She doesn't prefer the cold but the Ivy schools are all in colder climates (for our southern taste, they are all too cold, haha). 

 

ETA, she's considered skipping the Ivy apps altogether and applying to Rice instead.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Charleigh

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Why does she want to apply to an Ivy League school? Not a snarky question. The answer may help her narrow down which schools interest her.

 

For ds he applied to his reach school because he'd read many articles about developments in computer science and robotics that were products of the labs at that school. He decided that was an atmosphere he wanted to be around.

[regentrude]

 Which Ivy for my dd and why?  This is completely based on your own opinion, no wrong answer here

 

What does she want to major in? Not all degree programs at all ivies are equally strong. (That was the primary criterion for my DD)

Does she want to go to school in a big city? (This ruled out applications to Columbia and Penn for my DD)

Is distance from home, or, ease and cost of travel home a concern?

What kind of school culture does she want?

 

ETA: Why an Ivy? What especially does she want in an Ivy, compared to other extremely selective schools?

 

2nd ETA: When I mention school culture: my DD attends a non-Ivy that is the top 4 or 5 rated school in the nation and has an academic culture of making everybody work extremely hard for their grades. OTOH, there are Ivies where the hard part is getting admitted and where grade inflation is so rampant that it is common knowledge that everybody gets As handed on a platter. This, too, is something to think about.

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by regentrude

[Jen in NY]

She prefers a medium sized campus and not a large city. 

 

This might leave Harvard and Yale out.

 

You can probably guess where I would suggest....

 

:)

[Ann.without.an.e]

This might leave Harvard and Yale out.

 

You can probably guess where I would suggest....

 

:)

 

 

hmmm...Cornell?  Why do ya'll love it so?  I would love details.  We don't live anywhere near these schools and honestly know nothing about them. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Charleigh

[Luckymama]

Make sure you run each school's Net Price Calculator before she gets too deep into researching!

[Jen in NY]

I really like Regentrude and Luckymama's comments, here. I will admit to a very soft spot in my heart for Ithaca (the city), and a little bit of star-struck kind of wonder at Cornell left over from my younger days... having met my husband in Ithaca and graduated from what *some* Cornellians might consider the lesser of the two schools there, Ithaca College (Go Bombers!). It is just a beautiful campus, it has a long and storied history, and the academic energy produced and amount of influence Cornell has in our region is immense. That being said... both of my girls basically drew a radius around our house of about 5 hours, with the optimal drive time for all of us being under 3 hours. They just weren't interested in being a plane ride away right out of the gate. (I find myself in a state of astonishment regularly that my oldest decided to spend this entire year in Spain! She's done a lot of growing and changing since she left for freshman orientation!) So, taking all those things into consideration, Cornell made the short list for Engineering, which is what they both major in... although in totally different disciplines. When all things were considered, with finances getting a large share of the considering.... Cornell was the winner. University of Rochester was a very close second, but was in the radius that they eventually considered too close, I guess, lol. Had all things been equal and the name of the school been Georgia Tech, or Rose-Hulman, or some state school, the decision would have been the same.... Cornell just happens to be the name of the place they ended up. :)

Edited January 9, 2016 by Jen in NY

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thanks Jen.  That makes total sense.  We feel the same way, actually.  DD prefers to stay within 4-5 hours of home.  This is quite limiting though.  And if we are going to think outside of the 4-5 hour range, we honestly don't even know where to begin.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Charleigh

[regentrude]

.  And if we are going to think outside of the 4-5 hour range, we honestly don't even know where to begin.

 

We started with a ranking list for the desired major, went down from the top, eliminating schools that were out of the question (location, size), and stopped when DD had enough candidates

 

Edited January 8, 2016 by regentrude

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks Jen.  That makes total sense.  We feel the same way, actually.  DD prefers to stay within 4-5 hours of home.  This is quite limiting though.  And if we are going to think outside of the 4-5 hour range, we honestly don't even know where to begin.

 

I really like the College Confidential Super Match search engine because we were able to tweak the inputs more than some other search engines.  http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/

 

Not only can you select states and regions and majors and test scores, but you can also adjust how important each input is to your decision.  It was also one of the only searches I found where you could specify ROTC programs by service as a want.

 

DS1 and I used this to come up with a list of around 50 schools to learn more about.  He applied to fewer than 10.  We ran the search several times to come up with different lists (What if you went farther away?  What if you didn't do ROTC?)

[chiguirre]

ETA, she's considered skipping the Ivy apps altogether and applying to Rice instead.

Based on her interest in Rice, I'm guessing she'd like an urban, research focused, science heavy university.

 

That eliminates Cornell and Dartmouth because they're rural.

 

It might eliminate Brown, Yale and Princeton because they're in smaller cities nothing like Houston.

 

That leaves Harvard, Columbia and Penn. My guess is that Penn might be slightly easier to get into especially if you add diversity. (If you are not from Long Island or northern NJ, you probably add diversity). I loved my time at Penn, but I was a Wharton undergrad and that's a different experience than studying liberal arts in a school dominated by pre-prof students. Maybe Duke or Emory or UT Austin's Plan II would be good reaches for her?

[creekland]

If distance ends up not being an issue, Stanford is a top school with nice weather and tends toward good need-based aid like the Ivies.  I don't know if it's as automatic with the aid as the Ivy schools can be (not all Ivies are).

 

Otherwise, "Ivy" is just a sports conference.  There is a huge variety within the league.  Desired major and campus types can make a big difference.

 

Rice or Emory could be other warmer weather good contenders for prestige.  Duke too, but I feel certain you know about them if my memory is correct.

[sassenach]

We started with a ranking list for the desired major, went down from the top, eliminating schools that were out of the question (location, size), and stopped when DD had enough candidates

 

Where could one find these lists?

[regentrude]

Where could one find these lists?

 

Online. Google is your friend.

 

[creekland]

Other warmer weather locations that kids with top stats tend to like are U Miami and Wake Forest.

 

We've personally been to U Miami and liked it quite a bit.  The area it's in is crowded traffic-wise, but the campus itself has a nice little bubble with it.

 

The last student from here who went to Wake Forest turned down Stanford to go there.  It was a combo of liking it that much and WF offered her nice money.

 

(Maybe second to last now that I think about it).

[JanetC]

The most prestigious school for creative writing is probably the Univeridty of Iowa. The schools closest to the publishing industry would be in or near NYC, if she's thinking about internships or networking opportunities.

 

I would have her continue to research the top schools for her potential majors and limit the number of lottery schools to one or two. But, don't get hung up about whether her reach schools are literally in the Ivy League or not.

[Ann.without.an.e]

The most prestigious school for creative writing is probably the Univeridty of Iowa. The schools closest to the publishing industry would be in or near NYC, if she's thinking about internships or networking opportunities.

 

I would have her continue to research the top schools for her potential majors and limit the number of lottery schools to one or two. But, don't get hung up about whether her reach schools are literally in the Ivy League or not.

 

 

Actually the #1 school for writing on most lists is Emory, which is in the distance we like but she absolutely hated Atlanta :(

[Ann.without.an.e]

Based on her interest in Rice, I'm guessing she'd like an urban, research focused, science heavy university.

 

That eliminates Cornell and Dartmouth because they're rural.

 

It might eliminate Brown, Yale and Princeton because they're in smaller cities nothing like Houston.

 

That leaves Harvard, Columbia and Penn. My guess is that Penn might be slightly easier to get into especially if you add diversity. (If you are not from Long Island or northern NJ, you probably add diversity). I loved my time at Penn, but I was a Wharton undergrad and that's a different experience than studying liberal arts in a school dominated by pre-prof students. Maybe Duke or Emory or UT Austin's Plan II would be good reaches for her?

 

 

I wish I could say there was a legitimate reason she is interested in Rice but there isn't :lol:  It is a good school, with a good rep, great aid, she's attracted to the idea of being in TX, and her bestfriend has been planting this idea in her head for a while.  That being said, DD doesn't need a Science heavy university but her bestfriend is a brilliant science girl who loves Rice for the right reasons, haha.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Charleigh

[Ann.without.an.e]

Other warmer weather locations that kids with top stats tend to like are U Miami and Wake Forest.

 

We've personally been to U Miami and liked it quite a bit.  The area it's in is crowded traffic-wise, but the campus itself has a nice little bubble with it.

 

The last student from here who went to Wake Forest turned down Stanford to go there.  It was a combo of liking it that much and WF offered her nice money.

 

(Maybe second to last now that I think about it).

 

 

Wake is dd's number one choice so far but I am afraid the aid simply won't be there.  We will see.  They do sometimes offer great aid but it is not guaranteed need based aid like some of the more selective schools.  I am 99% sure she would turn down any Ivy school if she was offered a great financial package from Wake.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Charleigh

[EmilyGF]

Princeton! 

 

One special thing about P-ton is that it focuses on undergrads. Some colleges tend to focus on grad students, so that might be a plus. It is in a small college town, but you can take the train to NYC in 1 hour. 

 

I can write more some other time, but when we lived there (hubby was a grad student there) I got the impression that it would be a lovely place for undergrad. Harvard seemed to have a totally different vibe.

 

Emily

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Where could one find these lists?

 

It depends a bit on what degree program you are looking at.  Lots of schools have English and Computer Science departments so you have to dig more into the quality of the department itself.  DS1 went through some lists of highly ranked Computer Science departments (recognizing that the lists typically are ranking graduate programs not undergrad).  He also made good use of a wonderful mashup another board member made of CS schools and the Navy ROTC school list.

[Hoggirl]

I knew I was forgetting some key info :thumbup1: Thank you. She prefers a medium sized campus and not a large city. She doesn't prefer the cold but the Ivy schools are all in colder climates (for our southern taste, they are all too cold, haha).

 

ETA, she's considered skipping the Ivy apps altogether and applying to Rice instead.

Why is this an either/or? Is it the cost of applying? My ds got a fee waiver from Rice because of good AP scores. He didn't ask for it - it was offered to him by Rice.

 

FWIW, we loved Rice. Beautiful campus in a nice area of Houston. Loved the Residential College system. No Greeks. Only around 3,800 undergrads if memory serves me correctly.

 

We do not qualify for financial aid, but ds got offered nice merit money from Rice - maybe $22,000 or so per year??? AND, Rice has a lower starting cost than many of its peer school - maybe $8,000 - $10,000 per year less total COA. Sorry - my memory is a bit fuzzy on all of this. Please note that Rice is BIG on demonstrated interest! We visited in the fall of ds's junior year. That may or may not be necessary for acceptance/merit aid, but I'm sure it didn't hurt. A visit is the best way to get a feel for a school, IMO.

 

In the end, there was no way ds was going to choose Rice over Stanford as the latter was his dream school. He IS living the dream there, too! Can't imagine a better fit for him. And, it's sometimes cool, but NOT cold. Ds didn't want cold either.

 

Stanford is very generous with financial aid, but be sure to run the NPC at all schools your dd is interested in. I have read some posts on CC that seem to indicate that HYP is a bit better with financial aid than Stanford.

 

ETA: Houston, as I am sure you know is a large city!

Edited January 9, 2016 by Hoggirl

[GoodGrief]

My daughter chose schools based on program, location, and financial aid. The advice to run the price calculators is a good one. To be honest, one of her big motivators to consider schools in that category was the fact that we could qualify for much more financial aid than we could at other schools.

 

Also, consider the implications of their early application programs. Some of the Ivys are ED, some are SCEA. I'm not sure that any are EA. SCEA, while not binding, will limit early apps to private schools and possibly scholarship programs there.

[raristy]

Has she visited Rice? You mentioned she doesn't prefer a large city. Rice is right in the heart of Houston, off a major highway. Heavy traffic. The campus looks pretty and is in a nice part of town, close to the medical center and the museums. I live just 40 minutes from Rice. Would be happy to answer questions about this area if you'd like to.

[umsami]

What about one of the Ivies of the south like Vandy? Nashville is a fun city to live in.  Yes, they get a little cold, but nothing like up north.  The campus is lovely, yet you still have the fun of Nashville.

 

Another school that comes to mind is the Florida state honors college called New College of Florida.   It's in Sarasota.

 

Cornell is lovely.  Colgate is not an Ivy, but I remember they offered me a full-ride based on my ACT scores.  It's in Hamilton, NY.  Beautiful campus.

 

What about one of the Seven Sisters?  I have friends who attended both Mt. Holyoke and Smith....and I have to admit that I envy their experience as well as the friends they made. They seem far more life long than my college chums, although granted, they are much smaller schools.  Bryn Mawr, too, comes to mind.