Why do homeschoolers do this?!?!

[PeterPan]

You hit the nail on the head, here.

 

I've liked all of your posts on this topic, but to me, this is the crux of the matter. 

 

I have often wondered how much the push to early learning has impacted the early labeling of kids.   If 40 years ago a child wasn't expected to read until he was 6 or 7, and today we expect that at age 5, or even 4,  does the child who can't read until 6 or 7 today really have a problem?  Or is it just that society's expectations for that child have changed?  

 

I often think of a little boy in my son's public Kindergarten class.  He was still four when school started, and he barely made the cut-off.  I overhead his mother telling the teacher that she was a little worried how he would do, because he was so young, but she needed to put him in school.  This little boy had a whole lot of problems in school, and I know he got in trouble a lot, and I'm guessing he was probably labeled or held back, because he had aides at times.  I always wondered that if he had waited a year to start Kindergarten, if he would have had a better experience because he was clearly too young for an academic Kindergarten.

What's funny is that your cutoff (6/7) for waiting for a normal age where problems due to immaturity and not being developmentally ready would disappear is still pretty young.  And it's true, when I went to the ps to get my ds an IEP at 6.5, the SN kept repeating over and over that they don't normally give IEPs to K5ers.  Thing is, they have to look at IQ and discrepancy.  My ds had such a HUGE discrepancy between IQ and achievement, and he had it IN SPITE of intensive, direct intervention.  And he had it paired with a speech problem that is known to have a strong correlation with dyslexia.  In the end, the ps gave him SLD labels in all three areas (math, reading, and writing) as a K5er, because the discrepancy was SO severe.

 

But the more typical path?  The dc struggles, gets identified in 1st gr and pulled out for a slightly stepped up intervention that is still not OG and not meant for dyslexics.  The dc receives that for 9 weeks, then the teacher says oh we think we might want to do RTI.  They do RTI for another 5 weeks.  Then they say oh RTI wasn't enough, let's because the eval process and do an IEP.  That's ANOTHER 4 months. You did add that up, right?  Essentially the dc gets NO dyslexia label or IEP until the end of the school year.  That means his parents have no concrete information to made informed choices.  That means that child gets NO dyslexia-appropriate intervention (if the ps even does OG) until fall of the following year.

 

So to me I'd rather my dc be the one who begins appropriate intervention in K5 than the one who is this pawn in a system that drags its feet.  I know cases like this, and it's OBVIOUS what is going on.  That dc could be taken for private evals, get diagnosed, and begin proper interventions.  They have very fine-tuned tests that are accurate at this age.  They even have a CTOPP (test of phonological processing) normed for age 4, so they can screen and tell you much more clearly whether the things that need to develop ARE developing or not.

 

People who do dyslexia intervention want these kids EARLIER rather than later, because the lack of reading is holding back their vocabulary and language development.  It creates this cycle where the kid is not acquiring the language and doesn't, therefore, recognize it, which in turn holds back his reading.  If you look at the data (which I have), late readers do not just catch up.  Dyslexic readers who begin later go through the exact same stages of reading fluency development as early readers.  So early intervention IS where it's at.  But the key is to have good testing, good identification processes.  My ds, at age 6, couldn't put together /a/-/m/ to make am.  It was glaringly obvious.  I didn't need to wait.  With private evals, we got the testing, saw the discrepancy, got it labeled, began aggressive intervention.  He turns out to have much more complicated language issues, and the testing turns up those too.  If your dc is the one with the issues, you want that testing earlier, rather than later. 

[lexi]

This is one of the reasons I withdrew from the homeschool co-op I joined. I'm absolutely convinced that a couple of those kids had learning challenges that were being totally ignored. I was very unpleasantly surprised at the low expectations in the co-op and the learning levels of some of the kids. My kids found the classes disorganized and boring because the teachers were scrambling to teach a group of kids with vastly different abilities.

Kids do learn at their own pace but sometimes it is good to get an outside perspective. It does frustrate me when people won't get their child help. The 12-year-old in co-op who could not write...oh I am so worried about him.

[smarson]

I hear you and understand the frustration. I have actually run more into the problem of seeing homeschoolers desperate to label their children as having this or that ld. So it comes from both ends.

[Tsuga]

These threads come up every once and a while, and it really bothers me that the reaction is the exact same thing that the person is complaining about.

 

Original person: I know a couple extreme cases, and it's awful to watch and they drive me crazy!

A bunch of people: This is just like my case, which I will describe, and which isn't an extreme case at all, and kinda only tangentially related to what OP is upset about. Are you saying that I'm a bad person/mother/homeschooler?

Mob: OP is clearly a terrible busybody and says that a bunch of people are are terrible people/mothers/homeschoolers.

 

I find it pretty upsetting, tbh. It seems pretty clear that OP isn't talking about 6 year olds who can't read at a high school level yet, or about over diagnoses, or about unrealistic expectations.

 

And as someone who had 2 kids with delays, who was told by everyone that it was no big deal, that I was an overbearing helicopter mommy, that "that's just how boys are," that I was just comparing him to my older daughter and needed to let him develop at his own rate, and a bunch of not-actually-true stories about what a late bloomer Einstein was, I get really angry when I hear people say that discounting and disbelieving aren't actually the norm when children are clearly having issues, and that it's no big deal to enable situations where earlier identification and appropriate therapy will help. I'm really glad that for my 3rd child, who also had similar delays, I ignored the people who rolled their eyes, and said "It's just because she has 2 older siblings to do all the talking for her!", and got her the therapy she needed right away. It made a huge difference, I think.

Who is calling whom a bad parent?

 

There is a big difference between explaining the source of an attitude and saying that that is the right attitude to have.

 

Yes, there is a backlash against medicating boys and early formal schooling. It just exists. It doesn't matter if it doesn't apply to your case: the backlash is there.

 

No, people should not lash back at caring parents or any parents for that matter, but instead take a reasonable, moderate approach.

 

But OP asked why people acted a certain way and at least in my case, I'm explaining why people may act that way.

 

My explanation does not imply approval. As a matter of fact I watch all kinds of things go on IRL and I keep my big mouth shut.

[Tsuga]

What's funny is that your cutoff (6/7) for waiting for a normal age where problems due to immaturity and not being developmentally ready would disappear is still pretty young. And it's true, when I went to the ps to get my ds an IEP at 6.5, the SN kept repeating over and over that they don't normally give IEPs to K5ers. Thing is, they have to look at IQ and discrepancy. My ds had such a HUGE discrepancy between IQ and achievement, and he had it IN SPITE of intensive, direct intervention. And he had it paired with a speech problem that is known to have a strong correlation with dyslexia. In the end, the ps gave him SLD labels in all three areas (math, reading, and writing) as a K5er, because the discrepancy was SO severe.

 

But the more typical path? The dc struggles, gets identified in 1st gr and pulled out for a slightly stepped up intervention that is still not OG and not meant for dyslexics. The dc receives that for 9 weeks, then the teacher says oh we think we might want to do RTI. They do RTI for another 5 weeks. Then they say oh RTI wasn't enough, let's because the eval process and do an IEP. That's ANOTHER 4 months. You did add that up, right? Essentially the dc gets NO dyslexia label or IEP until the end of the school year. That means his parents have no concrete information to made informed choices. That means that child gets NO dyslexia-appropriate intervention (if the ps even does OG) until fall of the following year.

 

So to me I'd rather my dc be the one who begins appropriate intervention in K5 than the one who is this pawn in a system that drags its feet. I know cases like this, and it's OBVIOUS what is going on. That dc could be taken for private evals, get diagnosed, and begin proper interventions. They have very fine-tuned tests that are accurate at this age. They even have a CTOPP (test of phonological processing) normed for age 4, so they can screen and tell you much more clearly whether the things that need to develop ARE developing or not.

 

People who do dyslexia intervention want these kids EARLIER rather than later, because the lack of reading is holding back their vocabulary and language development. It creates this cycle where the kid is not acquiring the language and doesn't, therefore, recognize it, which in turn holds back his reading. If you look at the data (which I have), late readers do not just catch up. Dyslexic readers who begin later go through the exact same stages of reading fluency development as early readers. So early intervention IS where it's at. But the key is to have good testing, good identification processes. My ds, at age 6, couldn't put together /a/-/m/ to make am. It was glaringly obvious. I didn't need to wait. With private evals, we got the testing, saw the discrepancy, got it labeled, began aggressive intervention. He turns out to have much more complicated language issues, and the testing turns up those too. If your dc is the one with the issues, you want that testing earlier, rather than later.

Dyslexics might never catch up and nobody catches up to super high IQ readers but most typical kids do catch up to kids learning to read between five and eight. There are many studies showing this.

[KathyBC]

I have some serious problems with a child's personal issues being casually discussed in a public forum. If a parent has concerns about their child, they should be privately dealt with a trusted, trained professional. There are privacy issues and rights of the child that would be violated.

Seriously? There are absolutely no identifying markers in the post you quoted.

[BooksandBoys]

I'm another parent who was told for years by everyone, doctors included, that there was nothing to worry about. Even when I pointed out very concerning problems, even though I know and understand diagnostic criteria, I was told that my kids would outgrow their challenges. They aren't. Instead, the issues are getting worse.

 

Now, we're in the middle of a whole pile of evaluations, and I'm STILL hearing from other homeschoolers (not the doctors now, thankfully) that the kids will grow out of their challenges, or, among those honeschoolers who acknowledge the problems, that I should discipline better 😠or that I shouldn't be labeling my kids. I hear you, OP; it's a very frustrating tendency in the community I'm in too.

[Mrs. Tharp]

I saw it in the group I was in too. It really bothered me. I've never seen the opposite extreme, ever. 

[Bluegoat]

These threads come up every once and a while, and it really bothers me that the reaction is the exact same thing that the person is complaining about.

 

Original person: I know a couple extreme cases, and it's awful to watch and they drive me crazy!

A bunch of people: This is just like my case, which I will describe, and which isn't an extreme case at all, and kinda only tangentially related to what OP is upset about.  Are you saying that I'm a bad person/mother/homeschooler?

Mob: OP is clearly a terrible busybody and says that a bunch of people are are terrible people/mothers/homeschoolers.

 

I find it pretty upsetting, tbh.  It seems pretty clear that OP isn't talking about 6 year olds who can't read at a high school level yet, or about over diagnoses, or about unrealistic expectations.

 

And as someone who had 2 kids with delays, who was told by everyone that it was no big deal, that I was an overbearing helicopter mommy, that "that's just how boys are," that I was just comparing him to my older daughter and needed to let him develop at his own rate, and a bunch of not-actually-true stories about what a late bloomer Einstein was, I get really angry when I hear people say that discounting and disbelieving aren't actually the norm when children are clearly having issues, and that it's no big deal to enable situations where earlier identification and appropriate therapy will help.  I'm really glad that for my 3rd child, who also had similar delays, I ignored the people who rolled their eyes, and said "It's just because she has 2 older siblings to do all the talking for her!", and got her the therapy she needed right away.  It made a huge difference, I think.

 

I don't see why it would be surprising that people might point out that there are reasons for the observed behavior that make some sense, or even say that they think the OP is incorrect.  Unless it is  JAWM, people are going to have different perspectives.

 

Why would you assume the OP perspective is the only one?  Or, as Tsuga said, why assume that something being a problem doesn't come out of another problem that is a real concern?

 

 

[Doodlebug]

I hear you, but this isn't a very young child we're talking about.  What I'm describing is a mom who is ASKING for advice.  And she's laying out some pretty serious struggles for her 10 year old child.  Her child is a bright, sweet kid, but has deficits in certain "kindergarten-readiness" skills, and yet we still have people in the group saying, "late bloomer," and "they'll be fine."  Um... no.  not without an eval and intervention.  It is (slightly) possible that somehow things will click and she'll make up for lost time.  But at this point, at this age and with these skill deficits mom is playing with fire and needs to hear the truth in love not a bunch of ridiculous outlier stories.  

 

I understand the frustration and I'm not disagreeing with your assessment.  Not at all... I agree, that's seriously concerning delay.  

 

If I encountered a parent openly questioning those types of significant delays, I guess I see it as first, a parental issue.  Not the delay itself, but the doubt, the not knowing where to go for advice, who to trust, etc.  Why would that be there?  Well, for all the aforementioned reasons combined with the hectic craziness of family life and a huge price tag on the assessment she knows DS probably needs, but can't afford/needs someone to help her justify.  I think it's safe to assume she's struggling with assessment. 

 

I'm not suggesting family therapy as a sweep-a-potential-diagnosis-under-the-rug, blame the parent, fix.  I suggest it because that parent is looking for someone to help her justify what she sees as two polarizing options -- doing nothing and waiting, or placing a great deal of money into an assessment she's not certain will offer real help.  Round and round she goes, as well meaning people with honest-to-God personal experience spin her this way, then that, with perfectly good intentions.  From her perspective, it all sounds plausible!  

 

From a general standpoint, a co op acquaintance, even one who nails what will eventually be this child's diagnosis, lacks the relationship necessary to have any real power in this situation.  I can share my personal story as a casual acquaintance, trying to help, and it may change the mom's direction... but she's still on the ride.  This parent needs some professional hand holding... She needs someone to help her get off the merry-go-round and really start looking at her situation instead of canvasing for her next directional shift when her current rotation bumps up against reality.  From my perspective, family therapy stands a better chance of being received because it offers relief from the tension of her two perceived options, which she can't commit to.

 

It's my hope that family therapy would stop the languishing...  Once you take one step for help and get that relief, other steps become easier, too.  Does that make sense? 

[HS Mom in NC]

I think there's a tendency for some people to view things through a personal lens, so they have a hard time with generalities.  Let me draw a parallel in the adoptive community to demonstrate it.  There are stories by adoptees and adoptive parents about how bad some adoption situations are.  Abuse of all kinds happens when adoptive parents abuse their adopted children and when adopted children abuse their adoptive parents, siblings and other people around them.  There are stories about wonderful adoption situations that may have had bumps in the road but overall are happy situations.  None of those things is probably remarkable to anyone.  What is remarkable is how some people on each end will insist adoption is what they experienced and the opposite experience is just an anomaly.  While most people seem able to understand that both things happen and both make the idea of adoption, there are people who simply cannot see it outside their personal experience.  They insist adoption as a whole is what they experienced (good or bad) and can only insist it be banned entirely or universally encouraged as a sure bet way to successfully grow a family. I'm not exaggerating.  You may suspect that I'm not exaggerating after reading all the responses on this thread. 

There really are late bloomers who need more time before starting some or all academics. 

There really are kids with learning disabilities that need professional intervention.

There really are parents, teachers, and medical staff over treating imagined learning disabilities.

There really are parents, teachers, and medical staff ignoring real learning disabilities in children.

There really are adoption situations that are bad to horrific. 

There really are adoption situations that are good to wonderful.

 

None of those true statements makes any of the other statements untrue. It doesn't matter what the ratios of each of those situations are either.  They're all true all at the same time as much as some people are loathe to admit it.  Life is complicated and messy. There are no simplistic absolutes here.  Individual experiences will vary have just a they always have. You have to learn to look at all the true generalities and figure out which one each of your situations fits in.

[wintermom]

Seriously? There are absolutely no identifying markers in the post you quoted.

 

I meant a parent discussing their child's personal issues in the public forum of a group of parents at a co-op. The child's identity would not be private in those circumstances. This is what I referring to having a problem with. So this venting thread seems to me to be based on a situation which shouldn't really be happening at all, IME. The fact that lots of people are experiencing similar conversations seems quite unfortunate for a lot of children. The child has a right to privacy for their personal and academic issues. If the adult was a teacher instead of a parent, this would be unprofessional behaviour. Why is it ok for a parent to do this to their child?

[KathyBC]

So you never ask other parents for advice about your child? That's... unusual. How do people ever learn or grow if they never ask for help?

 

And I'm pretty sure teachers do discuss students with other teachers, administrators, learning assistants, etc.

[EmilyGF]

I posted earlier about our bad and good experiences with EI.

 

Now that I'm older and wiser (hopefully!) I use friends who are classroom teachers as my first line of defense. They see lots of kids on a regular basis, they give advice freely, and they are my friends. If a person who sees thirty kids a year, and has for twenty years, tells me something I see is outside of normal, I listen. It helps that my MIL is one of the sweetest people around and is a classroom teacher and my mother is a preschool teacher. Someone who has had lots of kids in Sunday School might work, too. But you have to be willing to listen without taking it as a personal affront.

 

I've seen individuals swing from one extreme to another: delaying help for one child because he's just a late bloomer, finally getting appropriate professional help, finding it absolutely life changing, and then getting help for all sorts of issues, imagined or real, from all sorts of crack pots. Some professional help was good, therefore a lot must be better, right?

 

Emily

[wintermom]

So you never ask other parents for advice about your child? That's... unusual. How do people ever learn or grow if they never ask for help?

 

And I'm pretty sure teachers do discuss students with other teachers, administrators, learning assistants, etc.

 

I do not bring up sensitive issues about my children in a group. Teachers do not discuss students' issues with other parents. The home educator is also a parent, I beilieve that it requires an appropriate level of sensitivity regarding their children. 

[Renai]

On the contrary, the anti-psychology movement in conservative/fundamentalist christian circles IS the reason people in those circles are not getting evals.  In the christian colleges they are telling kids in the psych and counseling classes "Don't use DSM terminology."  (That's a quote.) They bring Bible profs in to the education classes to tell them their ed psych text is bunk.  They preach from the pulpit and have their theologians write books saying ADHD DOES NOT EXIST.  The theology dept of a christian university let a grad student use that for his thesis and publish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Then they offered to HIRE him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just to clarify we're speaking of the anti-psychology movement within some conservative/fundamentalist Christian circles? I've heard of what you speak in some circles, but not seen or heard of such in any of the circles I run around. (get it? I run in circles...ok...). I went to a private Christian university studying psychology, and learned the same psychology as the secular universities I attended later. (I studied, child & adolescent, educational, and social psychology, among other psych courses.) I had to look it up just now to remember, but it states that uni is based on the Baptist General Convention in TX. Is this the same circle? Or is it something else?

 

About the original situation: Is it possible to send an email to the parent with the resources they need to pursue evaluation if they decide to go forward with one?

 

And, I haven't read all the responses, but isn't there a post floating around here by...I think ElizabethB maybe?...about pursuing professional help when the parent gut says there's something off?

[KathyBC]

I do not bring up sensitive issues about my children in a group. Teachers do not discuss students' issues with other parents. The home educator is also a parent, I beilieve that it requires an appropriate level of sensitivity regarding their children. 

In a class of 30, other families are bound to be aware of exceptional issues. Sorry, but if your child cannot read by age 10 (or whatever other unusual circumstance is happening), I'd be more concerned about lifelong handicaps than privacy. Why is it okay to mention your child's cancer but not a potential learning disorder? Of course, most parents are sensitive to their children - that's likely how they got this far down the road in the first place. Anyway, I can see we are going to have to agree to disagree. I appreciate your point, but think it does not apply in these situations.

[Bluegoat]

I also don't think i would say talking about something like this in a co-op would be a problem.  I am pretty sensitive to my kids being embarrassed and I try for example not to correct them and such in public.  I might not discuss some things in a group, and how many and how well I knew them would be a factor.  But I can think of quite a few I might - I wouldn't hesitate to talk about something like a reading difficulty.    I would also tend to think that in an education co-op, other parents might just observe a child's issues themselves.

[Janeway]

This is a vent.

 

Why is there the tendency among homeschoolers to downplay the possibility of learning disabilities?

 

I'm talking about responses to moms who say, "I'm worried - but probably for nothing.  My 10 year old can't count to 100.  But, he's probably just a late bloomer..."  (eta: details changed to protect their privacy, but that's the gist of it)  I definitely get the parent's denial.  Lived it, understand it, GET IT. (And eventually GOT PAST IT.)  

 

But I don't understand the tendency of other homeschool friends to ENABLE the denial, downplay legitimately troublesome concerns as 'late bloomer,' or 'she'll catch on,' or my (not) favorite, 'There is no normal!'  <--- said in the context of a kid who has OBVIOUS undiagnosed learning struggles.

 

This has come up - again - in a homeschool group I'm in.  Mixed in with the sane advice (get your kid tested) are the usual idiots who say stuff like, "Well I know a guy who couldn't add until he was 12 but now he works at NASA!" <----- made up exaggeration, but you get the drift, right?  And who do you think the mom listens to?  The people who tell her what she wants to hear.  And, again, I get it.  It's hard and scary to think of your child being anything but just a "late bloomer."  But seriously people, enabling the denial is not helping ANYONE - especially not the child!!!!!!

 

In our own situation, I actually had someone tell me, "You're worrying for nothing.  How much math does your daughter really need in life?  She'll be fine.  Just get her a calculator."

 

Thanks for listening....

It goes both ways. I have seen home schoolers flipped out because their child isn't reading fluently by 4 years old, or writing their name perfectly at 3. 

[kbutton]

Within my limited association with homeschooling community, I have spoken to fearful parents and have given them resources and answered questions about testing. I have been told by moms that they would never do such a thing as testing. When asked, I have mentioned my son's use of accommodations such as a keyboard or audio book. Some have remarked that my suggestions were positively unthinkable. This a free country, and I am OK with that. They ask, I tell, and they are free to either use or discard my input. At the end of the day, I am accountable to my family.

 

Three moms actually took their kids to an np and received evaluations. They were very hush hush and told me later what they had done. There is fear of the unknown, and all that we can do is try to assuage concerns and acknowledge that there is no guarantee of testing outcomes. I am encouraged by the fact that more families in my neighborhood are seeking helps.

 

This has been my experience as well. Some people want solutions/suggestions, and some people are opposed to or not ready for solutions/suggestions. I decided at some point that my experience with my kids is just as valid a topic of conversation as their kids and their experience. If I am in a group that exists as a support group for homeschooling moms, my homeschooling experience is just as valid as theirs is. If they are shocked that I would speak openly about how things look in my family (both the gifted stuff and the diagnosed learning issue stuff), then I figure they'll be a little less shocked the next time around, and so on. I had some bad experiences early on with my kids and professionals, with my kids and non-professionals, with my kids, etc., and when we had a label, I finally felt validated--it wasn't me that was the problem. I've heard moms moan and groan in self-deprecation and condemnation, and I know how terrible it feels to be told or to believe that you are the problem when it's likely the child has a diagnostically significant problem. I determined that I wasn't going to have that happen when I could help--I wanted to speak about my kids to make it safe for others to seek answers for theirs. I try to be sure I'm expressing "My Story" or "things that helped me when my child did that" and not being pushy. If someone is in a very difficult spot. they can take even the most careful advice, concern, and sincere offers of help the wrong way.

 

The end result is that there are families who are seeking answers that might not have otherwise. There are also families that were seeking answers that now feel free to share their experiences but did not feel that way before. I also found that when our group would have a resource sharing show and tell, that was a great time to bring in things we found helpful that opened up conversations. 

 

I'm not suggesting family therapy as a sweep-a-potential-diagnosis-under-the-rug, blame the parent, fix.  I suggest it because that parent is looking for someone to help her justify what she sees as two polarizing options -- doing nothing and waiting, or placing a great deal of money into an assessment she's not certain will offer real help.  Round and round she goes, as well meaning people with honest-to-God personal experience spin her this way, then that, with perfectly good intentions.  From her perspective, it all sounds plausible!  

 

From a general standpoint, a co op acquaintance, even one who nails what will eventually be this child's diagnosis, lacks the relationship necessary to have any real power in this situation.  I can share my personal story as a casual acquaintance, trying to help, and it may change the mom's direction... but she's still on the ride.  This parent needs some professional hand holding... She needs someone to help her get off the merry-go-round and really start looking at her situation instead of canvasing for her next directional shift when her current rotation bumps up against reality.  From my perspective, family therapy stands a better chance of being received because it offers relief from the tension of her two perceived options, which she can't commit to.

 

It's my hope that family therapy would stop the languishing...  Once you take one step for help and get that relief, other steps become easier, too.  Does that make sense? 

 

I think this is an excellent goal and a great option for some people. I personally had a horrible experience the first time we sought family counseling. The background of the psychologist/counselor is SO important. I was committed to finding a Christian counselor because I wanted to talk about spiritual things and the whole ball of wax. It was terrible, and it had nothing to do with the Christian part--I think the counselor really only could deal with "personal problems" for lack of a better term. Worse yet, the counselor thought I was lying. She didn't believe that my son was capable of ANYTHING I told her he was doing. She wouldn't even believe it when my husband verified what I was saying. It was awful. She didn't get the gifted part of my son, and she didn't get the ASD part either. We didn't have an ASD diagnosis or even realize it was a possibility--as far as we knew, it was just behavior that was creating a crisis in our home. She determined I was the crisis. That was also the unspoken but hinted at consensus of nearly everyone we knew that acknowledged or tried to express "concern" for our difficulties (concern = a serious amount of patronizing BS and an impatience to see us get our act together so that they wouldn't have to listen to us anymore). Because of that, I am reluctant to point someone to a counselor unless that counselor at least has the capability of identifying and testing for some basic educational and developmental concerns.

 

In our case, having someone actually agree that my son might be gifted and suggesting we get support for that would've been preferable to having people tell me I was a mess and needed to see someone about that for our family's sake. A qualified professional who would be able to test for giftedness would have been in a much better position to explain the other parts we were seeing and help us know what to do. I had no idea what kind of professional tested any of that kind of stuff, and would have assumed a counselor could do that or could point me to someone. That was clearly not the case.

 

Actually having a counselor that believed me would have been a close second, but I think it would have delayed us looking for additional answers. I think if you know that you have good counseling resources near you that would recognize developmental and educational issues, it's very kind of you to recommend it. 

 

I share my story not to suggest that you would be patronizing and shuffle someone off to a counselor so that you could resume your normal programming without having to invest personally, but to show that the type of counseling that results is profoundly important. SO MANY people say things like, "you know there's help for that" but have NO IDEA what that help looks like, what they are suggesting, etc. They don't offer to find appropriate help, or they assume a pediatrician can locate it for you. (And yes, we've had the whole professionals are part of the problem dynamic with many things, not just developmental problems--I still don't have a medical doctor I can trust or that listens.)

[imagine.more]

Oh, I TOTALLY get what you're saying.  I had little nudges that something was wrong, starting around age 5, but definitely by age 6.  But we didn't pursue evaluations until he was 7, nearly 8.  Why?  Because well-intentioned fellow homeschoolers (AND the grandparents) kept telling me he was just a "late bloomer" and that he'll be fine in the end.

 

Oh. My. Gosh.  It makes me CRAZY to hear that.  Okay, yeah, so MAYBE a child can be a late bloomer, but what if he's not?  What harm will an evaluation do if there actually is nothing wrong?

 

I'm bitter because I feel we lost several valuable years of remediation time because I had those "wait and see/he's a late bloomer" voices all around me.

 

The thing that just KILLS me is that EVEN AFTER WE HAD THE DIAGNOSIS I still had people telling me that doctors are often wrong, maybe he's just a late bloomer, blah blah blah...

 

Yep, same here. We're still told often by well-intentioned family members that our daughter couldn't possibly be intellectually disabled. This is in spite of numerous professional tests outlining how her IQ fits the requirement, her language skills are less than half her age, and she has taken 3 YEARS to sort-of understand the concept of multiplication and division. She didn't realize that all people die until she was 12 years old. 

 

I think many homeschoolers pulled their kids out because they were an unconventional learner. You know the kind, bright but very right-brained creative or hyperactive or something. My son is like that, and maybe a little dyslexic thrown in there for fun ;) These kids *are* late bloomers or unconventional learners and do often just need more time or a different approach and everything works out fine. 

 

The problem comes when we (because I'm sure I've done this too) overgeneralize our experience with our kids to all our friends' kids. 

 

I try to take the cautious approach whenever giving advice to others. I let them know what our experience was, and I advise them to watch their child, take notes, and mention it to their doctor or pursue an evaluation just in case. Then the professionals can give the real advice. 

[kbutton]

Yep, same here. We're still told often by well-intentioned family members that our daughter couldn't possibly be intellectually disabled. This is in spite of numerous professional tests outlining how her IQ fits the requirement, her language skills are less than half her age, and she has taken 3 YEARS to sort-of understand the concept of multiplication and division. She didn't realize that all people die until she was 12 years old. 

 

I hear this is common, even in school situations. A friend has had similar difficulties getting others to believe the results that she now knows to be true. And that just makes things harder on my friend.

[KathyBC]

This has been my experience as well. Some people want solutions/suggestions, and some people are opposed to or not ready for solutions/suggestions. I decided at some point that my experience with my kids is just as valid a topic of conversation as their kids and their experience. If I am in a group that exists as a support group for homeschooling moms, my homeschooling experience is just as valid as theirs is. If they are shocked that I would speak openly about how things look in my family (both the gifted stuff and the diagnosed learning issue stuff), then I figure they'll be a little less shocked the next time around, and so on. I had some bad experiences early on with my kids and professionals, with my kids and non-professionals, with my kids, etc., and when we had a label, I finally felt validated--it wasn't me that was the problem. I've heard moms moan and groan in self-deprecation and condemnation, and I know how terrible it feels to be told or to believe that you are the problem when it's likely the child has a diagnostically significant problem. I determined that I wasn't going to have that happen when I could help--I wanted to speak about my kids to make it safe for others to seek answers for theirs. I try to be sure I'm expressing "My Story" or "things that helped me when my child did that" and not being pushy. If someone is in a very difficult spot. they can take even the most careful advice, concern, and sincere offers of help the wrong way.

 

The end result is that there are families who are seeking answers that might not have otherwise. There are also families that were seeking answers that now feel free to share their experiences but did not feel that way before. I also found that when our group would have a resource sharing show and tell, that was a great time to bring in things we found helpful that opened up conversations. 

 

:thumbup:

[Doodlebug]

This has been my experience as well. Some people want solutions/suggestions, and some people are opposed to or not ready for solutions/suggestions. I decided at some point that my experience with my kids is just as valid a topic of conversation as their kids and their experience. If I am in a group that exists as a support group for homeschooling moms, my homeschooling experience is just as valid as theirs is. If they are shocked that I would speak openly about how things look in my family (both the gifted stuff and the diagnosed learning issue stuff), then I figure they'll be a little less shocked the next time around, and so on. I had some bad experiences early on with my kids and professionals, with my kids and non-professionals, with my kids, etc., and when we had a label, I finally felt validated--it wasn't me that was the problem. I've heard moms moan and groan in self-deprecation and condemnation, and I know how terrible it feels to be told or to believe that you are the problem when it's likely the child has a diagnostically significant problem. I determined that I wasn't going to have that happen when I could help--I wanted to speak about my kids to make it safe for others to seek answers for theirs. I try to be sure I'm expressing "My Story" or "things that helped me when my child did that" and not being pushy. If someone is in a very difficult spot. they can take even the most careful advice, concern, and sincere offers of help the wrong way.

 

The end result is that there are families who are seeking answers that might not have otherwise. There are also families that were seeking answers that now feel free to share their experiences but did not feel that way before. I also found that when our group would have a resource sharing show and tell, that was a great time to bring in things we found helpful that opened up conversations. 

 

 

I think this is an excellent goal and a great option for some people. I personally had a horrible experience the first time we sought family counseling. The background of the psychologist/counselor is SO important. I was committed to finding a Christian counselor because I wanted to talk about spiritual things and the whole ball of wax. It was terrible, and it had nothing to do with the Christian part--I think the counselor really only could deal with "personal problems" for lack of a better term. Worse yet, the counselor thought I was lying. She didn't believe that my son was capable of ANYTHING I told her he was doing. She wouldn't even believe it when my husband verified what I was saying. It was awful. She didn't get the gifted part of my son, and she didn't get the ASD part either. We didn't have an ASD diagnosis or even realize it was a possibility--as far as we knew, it was just behavior that was creating a crisis in our home. She determined I was the crisis. That was also the unspoken but hinted at consensus of nearly everyone we knew that acknowledged or tried to express "concern" for our difficulties (concern = a serious amount of patronizing BS and an impatience to see us get our act together so that they wouldn't have to listen to us anymore). Because of that, I am reluctant to point someone to a counselor unless that counselor at least has the capability of identifying and testing for some basic educational and developmental concerns.

 

In our case, having someone actually agree that my son might be gifted and suggesting we get support for that would've been preferable to having people tell me I was a mess and needed to see someone about that for our family's sake. A qualified professional who would be able to test for giftedness would have been in a much better position to explain the other parts we were seeing and help us know what to do. I had no idea what kind of professional tested any of that kind of stuff, and would have assumed a counselor could do that or could point me to someone. That was clearly not the case.

 

Actually having a counselor that believed me would have been a close second, but I think it would have delayed us looking for additional answers. I think if you know that you have good counseling resources near you that would recognize developmental and educational issues, it's very kind of you to recommend it. 

 

I share my story not to suggest that you would be patronizing and shuffle someone off to a counselor so that you could resume your normal programming without having to invest personally, but to show that the type of counseling that results is profoundly important. SO MANY people say things like, "you know there's help for that" but have NO IDEA what that help looks like, what they are suggesting, etc. They don't offer to find appropriate help, or they assume a pediatrician can locate it for you. (And yes, we've had the whole professionals are part of the problem dynamic with many things, not just developmental problems--I still don't have a medical doctor I can trust or that listens.)

 

 

Finding a solid professional really is the deal here, isn't it?  We do have access to a licensed/certified family therapist who came highly recommended by our pastor and personal friends -- with some sessions covered by insurance.  It just never occurred to me to start there, given the overwhelming advice to test.  

 

In our circumstance, a bad family therapist would've been the least expensive/ potentially problematic step to take.  Whereas, the bad assessment we received meant a behavioral/ emotional label, which I have no confidence in, on my son's medical record (it was performed through our local clinic)... and I don't have an additional $2,000 for a second assessment to clarify or challenge the first (not covered by insurance).  That is a serious problem; one I didn't see coming when I was just trying to figure out what might be going on. I'm still trying to figure out what approach to take there re the medical record.   :sleep:  

 

I hate that there are so many experiences, from a variety of specialties/approaches, that were so lacking.  A lot of tremendously brave and tenacious parents, though.  That much is abundantly clear.  :) 

[swellmomma]

It's an overcompensation for the trend of many young mommies fretting  over learning disabilities when their 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 year olds aren't reading well yet.  In other words, it's jumping into one deep end to avoid jumping into the other deep end. 

 

I do think there's a small, growing trend for some parents to need a label of some kind (yet another deep end) and by, golly they're gonna get one if they have to see every specialist in town.  The first 3 said it was within the range of normal but the 4th one who gave a label is only one who was actually right in their minds.   It's resulted in another small, growing trend of parents insisting no labels are ever needed.  (Deep ends everywhere.) No matter what clear evidence there is that  child needs some professional help to diagnose and treat something, by golly their kid is just a unique individual and missing years of foundational academics doesn't matter in their minds.

 

Welcome all or nothing thinking, folks.  It's going to be a bumpy ride.

Sometimes there really is a problem and it takes going to get to several dr's to get help.  I had that with oldest.  I had to fight to get him Dx and treated, and now that he finally is he is actually succeeding and doing better.  

 

As for the OP it frustrates me too.  I had to fight so hard to get anyone to listen about my oldest, I couldn't imagine just letting it be with a hope and a prayer.  With my ds12 I began getting him checked out sooner.  FIgured it would be better to be told there was nothing wrong and I worried needlessly than to miss the boat.  Aside from missing chances for treatment young, you need that paper trail to ensure your child can get help in college.  Sure homeschooling and having the kid at home getting a one on one education can assist them through and make the LD to have a lesser impact, but that luxury is not there if the child wants to go to post secondary.  Without the paper trail of a Dx there may not be services available to assist them in school.

 

Even if not thinking in terms of that, I can not wrap my head around not wanting to do absolutely everything to ensure your child has their needs being met.  Those needs include having their LDs treated, just like we would expect parents to treat a physical condition and not just leave it as "oh they are just a late bloomer"