Kristie in Florida Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 How essential is Oliver Twist? A Very Bad Man from my childhood shares a first name with a Very Bad Man in the novel. The one from my childhood wasn't a murderer but there was violent domestic violence, so the feelings are still raw. I saw a movie version of Oliver Twist in high school and got away with not reading the book. We focused on Great Expectations instead. I think Dickens is essential, but Oliver Twist? I'm not sure I can stand having discussions with my daughter about it without breaking down. It was just a question on Jeopardy (that I still blurted out the answer for - his name) so I was thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 No it isn't. But I generally think Dickens is better on screen than on paper anyway. There are a trazillion books in the world and I had an English teacher who had never heard of 'A Christmas Carol' so I think you can all go on to have productive lives. I mean, you're already ahead of my English teacher because you've heard of it. :p 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 My thoughts: Nothing that causes trauma is essential reading. Its just a book. Even without childhood associations some events from that novel gave me bad childhood dreams, that I can still summon up. If your daughter reads it just tell her you don't care to discuss that one because it is too unpleasant. Someone else can handle that task. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Nothing that causes trauma is essential reading. Its just a book. Even without childhood associations some events from that novel gave me bad childhood dreams, that I can still summon up. Totally agree. Nothing is worth that kind of pain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALB Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 There are so many other wonderful Dickens books that I prefer over Oliver Twist anyway. Go with Great Expectations, Nicholas Nickelby, David Copperfield, or something similar. I don't think Dickens should be skipped altogether, but there's no need to feel tied to a specific book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I liked Pickwick papers, Our mutual friend, Great Expectations, David Copperfield (and the WC Fields movie version), you know, come to think of it, in spite of the pleasure i derive from the brilliant descriptions of people's behavior and manners in Dickens, he does depict a lot of sadness. one can skip it with my blessings. Or read him selectively. I always suggest to those who find Moby Dick intolerable, just read the first delightful chapter and quit there. "And I never slept better in my life." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristie in Florida Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Thanks for understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 "The canon" comprises so very many books that nobody could possibly read all of them in a lifetime, much less in high school! (And certainly not if they expect to read in any sort of depth.) Charles Dickens wasn't actually paid by the word, but he was surely profligate. Pick another of his works and don't worry about it. Also, you have my sympathy for your tough situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I read it for the first time a couple of years ago. It didn't hurt me to not read it while in school. I still went to college and I still graduated and had some pretty good jobs. You can skip it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 David Copperfield is supposed to be a must read book. It's on my "to read list", but I haven't gotten to it yet. I loved Great Expectations as a teen. I can't say that I actually read Oliver Twist...although I read the Illustrated Classics edition. My DC have already enjoyed A Christmas Carol. I think your DC will be fine if you skip it. There are plenty of other Charles Dickens' books that they can read instead and I don't think they will be missing out. There are so many classics out there that their education won't be lacking if you skip some. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfamily Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Yes, I agree with all of the previous posters. Of all the books by Dickens, Oliver Twist is not the "must read" in our view. My older daughter is a huge Dickens fan! She's currently reading a biography on him and has read 8 of his books. I've always disagreed with sites such as Ambleside Online and other curricula which include Oliver Twist as their chosen Dickens work for the late elementary/middle school years. Oliver Twist has some really "adult" themes in it, despite the main character being a child. When my daughter did read Oliver Twist, of her own choosing when she was an older teen, she agreed heartily with me. We use A Christmas Carol, which we read together during the month of December, as the first book to introduce Dickens in the upper elementary years and then go with David Copperfield in the upper middle school years. We read The Tale of Two Cities in High School, but these are just the books that I include with our curriculum. I wouldn't worry. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This thread has me recalling my childhood acquaintance with that book in some detail. I saw the black and white movie, and read the illustrated comic book, and eventually read the novel itself, the first and last perhaps as an adult. Interestingly, I do not recall any lines from the novel and only one scene from the movie, but can recall rather faithfully the illustrations from the comic book, even the colors of the characters' clothing, their facial expressions, and the gory details of the bad stuff. This is over 60 years later. The good news is they don't scare me any more. But young memories are really strongly impacted by these things, in my case especially visual memory. So judicial editing may be prudent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Dickens was our favorite author, and we read many of his books. However, we never read Oliver Twist on purpose. I just didn't like that one. It was very dark and creepy. If you read just one, I'd read David Copperfield. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 "The canon" comprises so very many books that nobody could possibly read all of them in a lifetime, much less in high school! (And certainly not if they expect to read in any sort of depth.) Charles Dickens wasn't actually paid by the word, but he was surely profligate. Pick another of his works and don't worry about it. Also, you have my sympathy for your tough situation. I thought he was paid by the word. I can think of no other reason to have so many more words than needed. Or was he simply paid to fill x column inches each week. I think i might have enjoyed them more in the serial form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 He was paid by the installment. So yeah, I don't know why he indulged in excess verbiage either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 This thread has me wondering why and which things disturb me. I thought it was visualness that is so powerful but realized last night that some tv shows I encounter a lot offer the same disturbing images I recall from 60 years ago, but now they don't stay with me. So maybe it has to do with the age we encounter them, as you all probably know well. Maybe I have learned now to "look away" both mentally and physically so as not to store up these images, whereas as a young child I was very focused on taking in the content in a naive wondering and fascinated way. As a child I also read some content over and over. I say these things in hopes of suggesting to people how to help children avoid embedding these disturbing images in their brains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristie in Florida Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 This thread has me wondering why and which things disturb me. I thought it was visualness that is so powerful but realized last night that some tv shows I encounter a lot offer the same disturbing images I recall from 60 years ago, but now they don't stay with me. So maybe it has to do with age we encouner them, as you all probably know well. Maybe I have learned now to "look away" both mentally and physically so as not to store up these images, whereas as a young child I was very focused on taking in the content in a naive wondering and fascinated way. As a child I also read some content over and over. I say these things in hopes of suggesting to people how to help children avoid embedding these disturbing images in their brains. I repeat bad images and scenes over and over in my head and one will trigger the rest. OR at least I used to before my therapist helped me to conquer the triggers. PTSD sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathwonk Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I'm so happy you found some help for this. The only thing I know is to repeat some positive affirmation when a trigger strikes. But in reghard to this thread, in my opinion there is no work of art so important that it should be attended to if it is a negative trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I was in the school choir for our production of Oliver Twist in elementary school. I loved the music, and some negative scences were not included, so I had very positive associations with the story. Recently I brought my oldest 2 dc to a professional production of Oliver Twist (musical version) for youth and adults, and I found it quite disturbing as an adult. I was so looking forward to humming along to the songs, but had a really hard time getting past the reality of the story. My dc did not enjoy it at all as it was quite a dark portrayal of the story. And for a totally different twist, last year my youngest ds (9) went to see a homeschool group do it as a play, and he really enjoyed it. I guess it really depends on the specific production and individuals' perceptions of the story. None of us have read the actual book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yes, that scene in the movie horrified me as a child. We were living in a domestic violence situation at the time. You have my sympathies. And I actually haven't read any Dickens yet! Planning on A Christmas Carol this year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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