Book a Week 2015 - BW40: Ominous October

[Chrysalis Academy]

Three of us in the house read Slaughter house 5 this summer. The 10 year old sat it out, lol.

 

But we all found it profound and moving. It is actually still a little bit difficult to talk about.

 

I don't think it was actually wasted on my 15 year old, but I did suggest he revisit it in 30 years or so..I got the classic eye roll.  And so it goes.

 

Yes, I don't think my almost 13 year old is quite ready for it, it's a bit gritty. But I can see revisiting it with her in a few years.

 

I think part of the problem with the reading I did in my youth, of "modern" books that are considered classics, is that it was very solitary and unguided.  In high school we learned about Austen & Dickens and a little bit about the world they inhabited, but nobody prepared me for 20th century literature, to understand the social and political and historic context in which is what created, or that it was responding to. I don't know if it is because I just had English teachers who preferred old British literature, or if it's because we only ever really got to the 20th century history in the last two weeks of the school year and rushed through it, or that because i went to a religious school, where they were quite disapproving of all things modern, such questions were intentionally skipped, or if they were just ignorant.  I did have one great lit class in college, but that's it.  So it's not till the last few years when I've been systematically self-educating that I've begun to be equipped to really start to understand this stuff, or to put it into some kind of a context in which to appreciate it, even if I don't completely understand it.

[Lady Florida.]

Trying again:

 

"Do you like macaroni? asked R.

"What do you mean by macaroni?" answered Asherden. "It is like asking me if I like poetry. I like Keats and Wordsworth and Verlaine and Goethe. When you say macaroni, do you mean spaghetti, tagliatelli, rigatoni, vermicelli, fettucini, tufali, farfalli or just macaroni?"

 

Off topic, but this reminded me of when my niece was six and fell off her bike. She cut her leg and needed stiches and since it was a weekend we ended up in ER with her. One of the nurses was trying to take her mind off the pain and asked her if she was hungry, if she had dinner. She said no. The nurse then said maybe she'd like spaghetti for dinner, "Do you like spaghetti?" My niece did our little Italian-American family proud when she replied, "Not really, but I like vemicelli."  :lol:

 

As for the book itself, I'm not a fan of short stories but that sounds interesting. It went on my "might look into it at some time" shelf.

 

She might enjoy In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex. It's about the true story that inspired Moby Dick and is being made into a movie.

 

I haven't read it yet but it's sitting on my shelf after a trusted bookstore employee told me he loved it. (He and I are both Moby Dick fans.)

 

 

 

I read that book after finishing Moby Dick. I also read the original account by the cabin boy Thomas Nickerson, The Loss of the Ship Essex, Sunk by a Whale. I liked each one for different reasons: Nickerson's for its first hand account and Philbrick's for the background. Nickerson was a bit unreliable as a narrator but it was interesting to read. I never made it to the first mate's account, though there's a free pdf version available. I believe that's the one Melville used (among other things) for inspiration.

 

 

I liked the weirdness too. Think I can count it as my October spooky read? There's just an unfortunate part of my brain that follows up with ideas for a 5-8 page paper on whatever I read.

 

I have just encountered the World's Most Obnoxious Footnote, in the Penguin edition of The Wings of the Dove:

 

---------------

 

'You're wonderful on such subjects! I think I should leave you in no doubt,' she pursued, 'that if I were to sign my aunt's agreement I should carry it out, in honour, to the letter.'^6

 

[Note in the back:]

6 In fact, by the end of the novel, Kate has broken her agreement.

 

----------------

 

I sure hope the rest of the notes will give me a thorough overview of the events in the novel well before I get to them.

 

Ugh! How frustrating. I often skip the front matter in books because it can contain spoilers, but would never suspect an innocent footnote of giving something like that away.

[Kareni]

I was up until 1:30 this morning finishing Nalini Singh's Shards of Hope: A Psy-Changeling Novel (Psy/Changeling Series Book 14).  It was a good read.  I give kudos to the author for creating this world with its complex issues and its different types of peoples and for keeping so many story lines going.  That said, I miss the relative simplicity of the first books in the series where the romance was front and center.  The books are far longer now (484 pages for this volume versus 352 pages for the first) because so many more things are happening and all must be kept track of.  I fear that one day I will become too lazy to make the effort to keep up!  You definitely do not want to read this as a standalone; begin with Slave to Sensation (Psy-Changelings, Book 1).

 

About Shards of Hope:

 

 

"Awakening wounded in a darkened cell, their psychic abilities blocked, Aden and Zaira know they must escape. But when the lethal soldiers break free from their mysterious prison, they find themselves in a harsh, inhospitable landscape far from civilization. Their only hope for survival is to make it to the hidden home of a predatory changeling pack that doesn’t welcome outsiders.

And they must survive. A shadowy enemy has put a target on the back of the Arrow squad, an enemy that cannot be permitted to succeed in its deadly campaign. Aden will cross any line to keep his people safe for this new future, where even an assassin might have hope of a life beyond blood and death and pain. Zaira has no such hope. She knows she’s too damaged to return from the abyss. Her driving goal is to protect Aden, protect the only person who has ever come back for her no matter what. This time, even Aden’s passionate determination may not be enough—because the emotionless chill of Silence existed for a reason. For the violent, and the insane, and the irreparably broken…like Zaira."

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Stacia]

Brave New World

 

Ok, my rambling comments are here.....

 

I am not a fan of dystopian books. Generally, at this stage in my life, I don't pick it up myself to read because I feel like I can find something as horrific somewhere in the world in the news. So, to me, dystopian is not 'fun reading', ever. Maybe I'm old, cynical, & jaded, but I often feel that it hits too close to home/to reality. (So, please excuse my upcoming rants & musings on our society compared to BNW.) I hope the next generation reads books like this & that it energizes them into action to create a better world, a world drastically different than what these dystopian books are showing. Even though I can't say I liked reading BNW, I am glad I read BNW. (Thanks, Angel. Not sure when/if I would have gotten around to it if you hadn't selected it for us to read.)

 

What I found actually quite fascinating about BNW is that it's a dystopian society based on pleasure, on happiness. Not that the people are truly happy, but that the populace is controlled by creating a happy atmosphere. I guess it's the old adage of catching more flies with honey than vinegar. (Well, that & genetic manipulation & brainwashing.  ;)  But still....) And, that the 'head guy' in charge of this society (can't remember his name/role) was actually willing to sit & have a pleasant conversation w/ the younger guys who were challenging the status quo. To me, those facets made this book unique among other dystopian books I've read.

 

Quite frankly, I found a lot of parallels in our society today.

 

Brainwashing & mental manipulation:

Imo, we are a pretty manipulated society, similar to BNW. TV, social media, news, along w/ Congress' approval (they make the laws that control what we see), provide a pretty narrow view of the world we see. We are given a fairly narrow column of news (there is so much more going on out in the world but it takes effort & searching to try to find out) -- it is easier to just watch or read the stuff that is put in front of us. From politics to junk food, we are convinced of our opinions by slick marketing teams. I don't see this as drastically different than the brainwashing in BNW. We are easily led in our capitalist tendencies (you're helping the economy, helping your country after all!), to spend, spend, spend, to want what we see. Know what sells? Sex sells. It sells the idea that if you just buy the right furniture, wear the right shoes, drive the right car, drink the right drink, you will be liked, attractive, envied, wanted. Hey, you can even buy sexy underthings at a store named after the BNW drug. (Should that make us laugh or cry? At first I thought it was kind of funny but now the idea depresses me.) Let's not even go into how many ads there are on tv for medications (including Viagra pushed by an attractive woman) or how much of the illegal drug culture is impacting our society. The US is one of the largest users per capita of prescription drugs. We are a drugged-up society (not sure if we're entirely blissed out per BNW standards, but I guess that's where we're aiming with all the stuff we buy). Huxley is probably laughing hysterically at the society we've become; or crying because his vision was too close to reality.

 

Social strata:

In BNW, people are bred to belong to certain social strata & people stay firmly rooted in their tier for life. They think thoughts that go w/ their strata (through brainwashing), have jobs that go w/ their tier, hobbies that match their level, etc.... We definitely have social strata issues here in the US (just not genetically bred ones yet). There are various divisions & they impact things as varied as housing, nutrition, school access, safety, jobs/careers, & more. We have social stratification issues tied to immigration, a hot political topic at the moment. I also see our issues as social strata tied to marketing & buying. Because a lot of what we buy -- it's made in sweatshops outside of our country by people so poor, I'm not even sure we can imagine the poverty or their lives. But, they toil for our pleasure. (Hey! Look at this cute, cheap t-shirt I can buy today!) It's social stratification on a global scale. Does that mean we're even worse in that respect than BNW? At least the citizens of BNW saw & slightly interacted with the others once in awhile while we seem to do a lot to keep it out of sight/out of mind.

 

Science/genetic modification:

There has been some mention of people who want to manipulate DNA to create 'perfect' babies so you can make your child have the features you like. I'm sure that comes at a hefty price through private clinics. Generally, it has been frowned upon, but it has been done & I'm sure it's not something that will entirely go away (as an idea or as an actual procedure). Of course, there's plenty of parallel to Hitler, creating a superior race, etc.... Heck, we still have plenty of hate groups here in the US promoting those values. What about plastic surgery (for vanity, not necessity)? Would that be using science to create beauty & sexiness for pleasure? Again, plenty of echoes of BNW in our real society. Haven't pondered this one extensively yet, though, so I feel like my thoughts here are still choppy.

 

Shakespeare:

I haven't really tried to look at why there were so many Shakespeare references in BNW, not only to The Tempest, but to other works too.

 

One last comment for now. At the back of the book I had, there was a letter Huxley wrote to George Orwell in 1949 (after having received a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four from Orwell). Huxley thanks Orwell for his book & discusses their different visions of the future. He then goes on to say,

In other words, I feel that the nightmare of Nineteen Eighty-Four is destined to modulate into the nightmare of a world having more resemblance to that which I imagined in Brave New World. The change will be brought about as a result of a felt need for increased efficiency.

 

At first, I thought of it as kind of an authorly snub of 'my dystopian view is better than your dystopian view', but after re-reading it & thinking about it, I am beginning to wonder if he's not right? Think about WWII to the present day. Have we had enough parallels to both Orwell's & Huxley's visions to see some truth in both of them?

 

Food for thought anyway.

 

 

[Angel]

Back from the doctor's.  Bronchitis/sinus infection/upper respiratory infection.  Basically I'm a hot mess.  Got antibiotics and cough syrup with codeine.  So I may make little sense for a couple days  :blush:

Brave New World

 

Ok, my rambling comments are here.....

 

I am not a fan of dystopian books. Generally, at this stage in my life, I don't pick it up myself to read because I feel like I can find something as horrific somewhere in the world in the news. So, to me, dystopian is not 'fun reading', ever. Maybe I'm old, cynical, & jaded, but I often feel that it hits too close to home/to reality. (So, please excuse my upcoming rants & musings on our society compared to BNW.) I hope the next generation reads books like this & that it energizes them into action to create a better world, a world drastically different than what these dystopian books are showing. Even though I can't say I liked reading BNW, I am glad I read BNW. (Thanks, Angel. Not sure when/if I would have gotten around to it if you hadn't selected it for us to read.)

I agree with this!  I had not thought of the next generation reading in hopes of changing the path we are on.  I'll have to ponder that, but I think you are right.  But as with most classics, how much will skim right over their heads?  I read it at 17.  Did I have the life experience to really process, umm, not so much.  Not to mention that most public schools that will come to BNW will not have a teacher like Robin Williams in Dead Poets Society.  They will regurgitate facts and analyze literary terms and not get into a discussion about the many things we are discussing here.  

 

What I found actually quite fascinating about BNW is that it's a dystopian society based on pleasure, on happiness. Not that the people are truly happy, but that the populace is controlled by creating a happy atmosphere. I guess it's the old adage of catching more flies with honey than vinegar. (Well, that & genetic manipulation & brainwashing.  ;)  But still....) And, that the 'head guy' in charge of this society (can't remember his name/role) was actually willing to sit & have a pleasant conversation w/ the younger guys who were challenging the status quo. To me, those facets made this book unique among other dystopian books I've read.  It was fascinating that in both BNW and F451 the "head guys" had books and were well read.  In BNW the Head Controller admits to being able to break the rules.  

 

Quite frankly, I found a lot of parallels in our society today.  Yes, which is what disturbs me the most about reading dystopian.  I also feel the tv/movie industry has made it popular.  In my warped, conspiracy theory mind, they are conditioning people to find these dystopian societies "commonplace" or "glamourous."  Dh disagrees with me but that's ok  ;) 

 

Brainwashing & mental manipulation:

Imo, we are a pretty manipulated society, similar to BNW. TV, social media, news, along w/ Congress' approval (they make the laws that control what we see), provide a pretty narrow view of the world we see. We are given a fairly narrow column of news (there is so much more going on out in the world but it takes effort & searching to try to find out) -- it is easier to just watch or read the stuff that is put in front of us. From politics to junk food, we are convinced of our opinions by slick marketing teams. I don't see this as drastically different than the brainwashing in BNW. We are easily led in our capitalist tendencies (you're helping the economy, helping your country after all!), to spend, spend, spend, to want what we see. Know what sells? Sex sells. It sells the idea that if you just buy the right furniture, wear the right shoes, drive the right car, drink the right drink, you will be liked, attractive, envied, wanted. Hey, you can even buy sexy underthings at a store named after the BNW drug. (Should that make us laugh or cry? At first I thought it was kind of funny but now the idea depresses me.) Let's not even go into how many ads there are on tv for medications (including Viagra pushed by an attractive woman) or how much of the illegal drug culture is impacting our society. The US is one of the largest users per capita of prescription drugs. We are a drugged-up society (not sure if we're entirely blissed out per BNW standards, but I guess that's where we're aiming with all the stuff we buy). Huxley is probably laughing hysterically at the society we've become; or crying because his vision was too close to reality.  I agree with this too, except I don't find a capitalist society bad, if that is what you were trying to say even.  Dh says tv is called tv programs (programming) for a reason.  It is programming us to think a certain way or accept new "norms" in society.  It is certainly not much different than the hypnopaedic messages.  But advertising is everywhere now.  And side rant, why do drug companies have to advertise?  How much money are they wasting that could be put to better use...I feel that way about the post office, too.  We all know that there is one in every town, don't spend millions in advertising. Sorry, got distracted.  Blame the codeine.  

 

Social strata:

In BNW, people are bred to belong to certain social strata & people stay firmly rooted in their tier for life. They think thoughts that go w/ their strata (through brainwashing), have jobs that go w/ their tier, hobbies that match their level, etc.... We definitely have social strata issues here in the US (just not genetically bred ones yet). There are various divisions & they impact things as varied as housing, nutrition, school access, safety, jobs/careers, & more. We have social stratification issues tied to immigration, a hot political topic at the moment. I also see our issues as social strata tied to marketing & buying. Because a lot of what we buy -- it's made in sweatshops outside of our country by people so poor, I'm not even sure we can imagine the poverty or their lives. But, they toil for our pleasure. (Hey! Look at this cute, cheap t-shirt I can buy today!) It's social stratification on a global scale. Does that mean we're even worse in that respect than BNW? At least the citizens of BNW saw & slightly interacted with the others once in awhile while we seem to do a lot to keep it out of sight/out of mind.  I don't completely agree here.  The USA is still a land of opportunity.  Why the heck do all these people still want into our country.  My parents live in a very backwoods, rural Appalachian community.  These people, because of their "poverty" are given every opportunity to rise above their situation.  Free lunches, free clothes, free breakfasts, free school supplies, free college.   I'm constantly appalled at all they are given in government support to better themselves.  A few do.  They tend to leave the area and not associate with it anymore.  The majority don't.  They are happy in their situation.  Instead of taking all the support and using it,  they are instead being "conditioned" to take the free handouts and continue doing so for the rest of their lives.  

 

Science/genetic modification:

There has been some mention of people who want to manipulate DNA to create 'perfect' babies so you can make your child have the features you like. I'm sure that comes at a hefty price through private clinics. Generally, it has been frowned upon, but it has been done & I'm sure it's not something that will entirely go away (as an idea or as an actual procedure). Of course, there's plenty of parallel to Hitler, creating a superior race, etc.... Heck, we still have plenty of hate groups here in the US promoting those values. What about plastic surgery (for vanity, not necessity)? Would that be using science to create beauty & sexiness for pleasure? Again, plenty of echoes of BNW in our real society. Haven't pondered this one extensively yet, though, so I feel like my thoughts here are still choppy.  Agree here as well.  

 

Shakespeare:

I haven't really tried to look at why there were so many Shakespeare references in BNW, not only to The Tempest, but to other works too.  He seemed to quote Othello a lot.  And I haven't read Othello.  Defnintely some Shakespeare quotes I couldn't put to a work.  

 

One last comment for now. At the back of the book I had, there was a letter Huxley wrote to George Orwell in 1949 (after having received a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four from Orwell). Huxley thanks Orwell for his book & discusses their different visions of the future. He then goes on to say,  I have not read 1984.  Have you?  Maybe next year's banned book week  :lol: I'm depressed enough after reading all of these books.  

 

At first, I thought of it as kind of an authorly snub of 'my dystopian view is better than your dystopian view', but after re-reading it & thinking about it, I am beginning to wonder if he's not right? Think about WWII to the present day. Have we had enough parallels to both Orwell's & Huxley's visions to see some truth in both of them?

 

Food for thought anyway.

 

Like I said, I keep comparing the different societies that I've read over the past two years.  I liked how Lois Lowry handled it in The Giver the best, probably.  

[mumto2]

Brave New World

 

Ok, my rambling comments are here.....

 

I am not a fan of dystopian books. Generally, at this stage in my life, I don't pick it up myself to read because I feel like I can find something as horrific somewhere in the world in the news. So, to me, dystopian is not 'fun reading', ever. Maybe I'm old, cynical, & jaded, but I often feel that it hits too close to home/to reality. (So, please excuse my upcoming rants & musings on our society compared to BNW.) I hope the next generation reads books like this & that it energizes them into action to create a better world, a world drastically different than what these dystopian books are showing. Even though I can't say I liked reading BNW, I am glad I read BNW. (Thanks, Angel. Not sure when/if I would have gotten around to it if you hadn't selected it for us to read.)

 

What I found actually quite fascinating about BNW is that it's a dystopian society based on pleasure, on happiness. Not that the people are truly happy, but that the populace is controlled by creating a happy atmosphere. I guess it's the old adage of catching more flies with honey than vinegar. (Well, that & genetic manipulation & brainwashing. ;) But still....) And, that the 'head guy' in charge of this society (can't remember his name/role) was actually willing to sit & have a pleasant conversation w/ the younger guys who were challenging the status quo. To me, those facets made this book unique among other dystopian books I've read.

 

Quite frankly, I found a lot of parallels in our society today.

 

Brainwashing & mental manipulation:

Imo, we are a pretty manipulated society, similar to BNW. TV, social media, news, along w/ Congress' approval (they make the laws that control what we see), provide a pretty narrow view of the world we see. We are given a fairly narrow column of news (there is so much more going on out in the world but it takes effort & searching to try to find out) -- it is easier to just watch or read the stuff that is put in front of us. From politics to junk food, we are convinced of our opinions by slick marketing teams. I don't see this as drastically different than the brainwashing in BNW. We are easily led in our capitalist tendencies (you're helping the economy, helping your country after all!), to spend, spend, spend, to want what we see. Know what sells? Sex sells. It sells the idea that if you just buy the right furniture, wear the right shoes, drive the right car, drink the right drink, you will be liked, attractive, envied, wanted. Hey, you can even buy sexy underthings at a store named after the BNW drug. (Should that make us laugh or cry? At first I thought it was kind of funny but now the idea depresses me.) Let's not even go into how many ads there are on tv for medications (including Viagra pushed by an attractive woman) or how much of the illegal drug culture is impacting our society. The US is one of the largest users per capita of prescription drugs. We are a drugged-up society (not sure if we're entirely blissed out per BNW standards, but I guess that's where we're aiming with all the stuff we buy). Huxley is probably laughing hysterically at the society we've become; or crying because his vision was too close to reality.

 

Social strata:

In BNW, people are bred to belong to certain social strata & people stay firmly rooted in their tier for life. They think thoughts that go w/ their strata (through brainwashing), have jobs that go w/ their tier, hobbies that match their level, etc.... We definitely have social strata issues here in the US (just not genetically bred ones yet). There are various divisions & they impact things as varied as housing, nutrition, school access, safety, jobs/careers, & more. We have social stratification issues tied to immigration, a hot political topic at the moment. I also see our issues as social strata tied to marketing & buying. Because a lot of what we buy -- it's made in sweatshops outside of our country by people so poor, I'm not even sure we can imagine the poverty or their lives. But, they toil for our pleasure. (Hey! Look at this cute, cheap t-shirt I can buy today!) It's social stratification on a global scale. Does that mean we're even worse in that respect than BNW? At least the citizens of BNW saw & slightly interacted with the others once in awhile while we seem to do a lot to keep it out of sight/out of mind.

 

Science/genetic modification:

There has been some mention of people who want to manipulate DNA to create 'perfect' babies so you can make your child have the features you like. I'm sure that comes at a hefty price through private clinics. Generally, it has been frowned upon, but it has been done & I'm sure it's not something that will entirely go away (as an idea or as an actual procedure). Of course, there's plenty of parallel to Hitler, creating a superior race, etc.... Heck, we still have plenty of hate groups here in the US promoting those values. What about plastic surgery (for vanity, not necessity)? Would that be using science to create beauty & sexiness for pleasure? Again, plenty of echoes of BNW in our real society. Haven't pondered this one extensively yet, though, so I feel like my thoughts here are still choppy.

 

Shakespeare:

I haven't really tried to look at why there were so many Shakespeare references in BNW, not only to The Tempest, but to other works too.

 

One last comment for now. At the back of the book I had, there was a letter Huxley wrote to George Orwell in 1949 (after having received a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four from Orwell). Huxley thanks Orwell for his book & discusses their different visions of the future. He then goes on to say,

 

At first, I thought of it as kind of an authorly snub of 'my dystopian view is better than your dystopian view', but after re-reading it & thinking about it, I am beginning to wonder if he's not right? Think about WWII to the present day. Have we had enough parallels to both Orwell's & Huxley's visions to see some truth in both of them?

 

Food for thought anyway.

Sorry I copied then couldn't get it to edit down. Pretend I just have the bit about prescription drugs.......

 

Since we have been sharing funny things our dc's have done I thought I would comment on Prescription drug advertising which does not happen in the UK much. When we were in the process of moving here I let the dc's (ages 7 and 9) watch Family Feud and The Price is Right way more than I should have, telling them not to watch commercials. This was in the US. After we settled here and had a social life someone was discussing a medical problem, allergies I think...not viagra. My kids popped up with the pros and cons of several prescription allergy meds, could spell the proper name, and deliver the potential side effects pretty much verbatim from the commercials. No one knew what they were copying, utter shock. I think the bystanders thought I was teaching them that for some unknown reason, others were fascinated by their apparent vast knowledge. I don't think they knew much more than the average TV watcher in the US. There I stood, kids had oviously watched way too much telly and listened to all the commercials closely. :lol:

 

We have very few commercial breaks, only three breaks an hour on commercial tv. The BBC doesn't break until the show or movie is over. Drug commercials are rare.

 

Totally not book related but here is a link to the dc's favorite British game show from the same age, since Angel and her dd are sick. Pointless

on youtube. They also loved University http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=university+challenge+youtube&FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=461D7640F2DFF86D5F2F461D7640F2DFF86D5F2F and Mastermind. I haven't prewatched the episodes so have no idea content wise for linked episodes but most are fine.

[Stacia]

Re: banned books week...

(I apologize in advance for any mistakes; I am typing on a touch pad.)

If you look up the times that both BNW & Slaughterhouse-Five (SF) have been banned/challenged, SF has many more incidents recorded, over twice the number, I think.

I fight against banning books for precisely the type of society that is depicted in BNW (& other dystopian books) -- controlling news & information sources is a strong & effective way to control a populace. It happens in the real world too, one or a few control & manipulate the sources & free flow of information.

Back to my first statement re: SF being challenged/banned more often than BNW. Why?

I find SF a much more human story, touching, reflecting much of a reality that has happened (serving as a soldier, being captured as a POW, the bombing of a mostly-civilian populace, the mental gymnastics of returning to 'normal' life after a war, etc...) & entering a plea with humanity to stop war. BNW is colder, more distant (a supposedly made-up future rather than reality), more 'fictional'. So why is SF more challenged? Do we humans not want to face the truth of things we've done; would we rather imagine a fake dystopian future?

When you look at the actual content & messages of the books, I am really flummoxed when trying to understand why one has been challenged/banned so much more than the other. (Not that I agree with either one being banned.)

Would love to hear some other thoughts on this, if anyone wants to jump in....

P.S. Angel! I may indeed faint! ;-p

[Angel]

Sorry I copied then couldn't get it to edit down. Pretend I just have the bit about prescription drugs.......

 

Since we have been sharing funny things our dc's have done I thought I would comment on Prescription drug advertising which does not happen in the UK much. When we were in the process of moving here I let the dc's (ages 7 and 9) watch Family Feud and The Price is Right way more than I should have, telling them not to watch commercials. This was in the US. After we settled here and had a social life someone was discussing a medical problem, allergies I think...not viagra. My kids popped up with the pros and cons of several prescription allergy meds, could spell the proper name, and deliver the potential side effects pretty much verbatim from the commercials. No one knew what they were copying, utter shock. I think the bystanders thought I was teaching them that for some unknown reason, others were fascinated by their apparent vast knowledge. I don't think they knew much more than the average TV watcher in the US. There I stood, kids had oviously watched way too much telly and listened to all the commercials closely. :lol:

 

We have very few commercial breaks, only three breaks an hour on commercial tv. The BBC doesn't break until the show or movie is over. Drug commercials are rare.

 

Totally not book related but here is a link to the dc's favorite British game show from the same age, since Angel and her dd are sick. Pointless

on youtube. They also loved University http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=university+challenge+youtube&FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=461D7640F2DFF86D5F2F461D7640F2DFF86D5F2F and Mastermind. I haven't prewatched the episodes so have no idea content wise for linked episodes but most are fine.

:lol:  and thanks for the links!  Dd is all over British telly.  

[Angel]

After Brave New World I needed a trip to Flufferton Abbey.  I picked up a Regency book that had been in a pile from the library book sale from who knows when.  I thought it was a romance, but it was heavier on the mystery.  Funny enough, The Riddle of Alabaster Royal by Patricia Veryan would fit into a “spooky†category with a creepy, decrepit old house that is haunted by the ghost of a very large cat.  It was a good enough book up until the last few pages.  She left at least two large plot items unresolved!  After looking it up on Goodreads, I see there are two more books.  I wonder if she resolves those issues.  Anyway, A PLEASANT DIVERSION to read while one is sick and can’t sleep.  

 

That makes #39.  I'm currently working on A Beautiful Blue Death for my 2015 Reading Challenge (book with a color in the title).  I bought this at the dollar store earlier in the year because I liked the cover.  I think Shukrriya read it this year.  It's good so far only with a little bit too much description, which may only be that my mind can't focus and I want easy reading.  I also checked out Supernatural Enhancements.  Aly and I will be reading Frankenstein and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde but I think they are going to fall into November instead of October  :glare:

[Angel]

 

P.S. Angel! I may indeed faint! ;-p

:lol:

 

Slaughterhouse Five was, like you said, at least a human story.  I could connect on some level with Billy Pilgrim.  The characters in BNW were sterile, for lack of a better word.  I want to connect with my characters in some fashion, not be a bystander on the outside.

 

Sorry about the multiple posts.  The laptop I work on has a chunky line down the middle of the screen, and it's really hard to multi-quote on it.  And that's too much work right now.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

Re: banned books week...

 

(I apologize in advance for any mistakes; I am typing on a touch pad.)

 

If you look up the times that both BNW & Slaughterhouse-Five (SF) have been banned/challenged, SF has many more incidents recorded, over twice the number, I think.

 

I fight against banning books for precisely the type of society that is depicted in BNW (& other dystopian books) -- controlling news & information sources is a strong & effective way to control a populace. It happens in the real world too, tyrants control & manipulate the sources & free flow of information.

 

Back to my first statement re: SF being challenged/banned more often than BNW. Why?

 

I find SF a much more human story, touching, reflecting much of a reality that has happened (serving as a soldier, being captured as a POW, the bombing of a mostly-civilian populace, the mental gymnastics of returning to 'normal' life after a war, etc...) & entering a plea with humanity to stop war. BNW is colder, more distant (a supposedly made-up future rather than reality), more 'fictional'. So why is SF more challenged? Do we humans not want to face the truth of things we've done; would we rather imagine a fake dystopian future?

 

When you look at the actual content & messages of the books, I am really flummoxed when trying to understand why one has been challenged/banned so much more than the other. (Not that I agree with either one being banned.)

 

Would love to hear some other thoughts on this, if anyone wants to jump in....

 

P.S. Angel! I may indeed faint! ;-p

 

Good questions. I think you put your finger on it, though - critical, satirical analysis of real events is more challenging to our worldview or our self/national image than is a fictional/futuristic/dystopian account that we can sort of shrug off as fiction more easily.  Although it's kind of funny to call SF a realistic novel, given the alien/time travel aspect, it is really gritty and dark in looking at the war, including being super critical of decisions made, leaders, and soldiers.  Those were real decisions made by real people. The depictions, although fictional, are about how real soldiers acted during a real war. As such, it's much more deeply challenging than a description of how things might be in some future society that doesn't actually exist.  A more firm kick in the teeth, so to speak.

 

I am a lover of dystopian stories, for whatever dark & psychological reason.  I just picked up a new anthology and started reading it last night - Loosed Upon the World: The Saga Anthology of Climate Fiction, edited by John Joseph Adams. I've read another anthology of his, called ironically Brave New Worlds, with dystopian stories.  In both cases, I notice that the more realistic the stories, as in the more I can draw a line from where we are now to where the story takes me, the more disturbing they are.  So Paolo Bacigalupi's stories are much more disturbing than Margaret Atwood's, for example, because you have to suspend a lot more disbelief to see Atwood's worlds actually happening.  Maybe something similar is going on with BNW vs. SF?

[Stacia]

Angel, I'm not saying capitalism is bad. It's not, in & of itself, bad.

 

I do think it used to have a lesser role in our society. Now, I feel like it is a (the?) major driving force of our society. I think there needs to be a better balance. It's something I think we really don't think about & address very often.

 

For example, most of our news sources here in the US are for-profit organizations. Over the past years, ownership & control of these has now whittled down to just a few corporations. So, that means the news sources for all the cities & towns across the USA are actually run by just a few companies. When it's in the control of a few, the message can be pretty narrow, reflecting the values of whoever is providing the message. Are we as a society thinking about this? Challenging this? Or, are we as a society accepting of this? Ok with this?

 

Business Insider says (in an article from 2012 titled These 6 Corporations Control 90% Of The Media In America; check out the link to see the infographic):

This infographic created by Jason at Frugal Dad shows that almost all media comes from the same six sources.
 

That's consolidated from 50 companies back in 1983.

 

Who Owns the Media?

 

And, this is just really one example. It's not just the media, it's food, clothing, shelter, education, defense -- so much of it is funded, led, &/or influenced by for-profit companies. In a capitalist society, it's a two-way street; they put money into these interests & they expect something in return. That's perfectly reasonable in a capitalist society, imo. But, if we let it go too far to one extreme, we're voluntarily letting a few control us, voluntarily selling ourselves, our options in exchange for the product, the idea, or the belief that the seller wants to sell. Imo, this goes hand in hand with the brainwashing aspect of BNW....

 

I don't know that I'm expressing myself well & I'm not railing against capitalism. I am saying I think it's important to remain an informed & educated society, that the things dystopian books point out may not be too far from reality, & that we need not let ourselves become too complacent.

 

[Stacia]

Do you have other favorite Vonneguts?  What a funny sentence to type! Makes me giggle.

I remember really liking Timequake and Deadeye Dick. I think Cat's Cradle too (though I can't remember anything about it at all right now).

 

I wasn't as fond of Sirens of Titan or Galapagos.

 

Don't know if there are others I've read or not. Hmmm, thinking....

[Stacia]

:grouphug: :grouphug: , Angel. I hope you & Aly start feeling better soon!

 

And this is for you: :svengo:  (<--------- me re: your post when you said you liked SF better than BNW. I couldn't post the fainting smiley when I was on my touch pad.)  :lol:

 

ETA: Yes, I read Nineteen Eighty-Four... in 1984. Lol. It was a school assignment & I remember really liking it. (Enjoy just always seems the wrong word to use for dystopian books. Sigh.) I would be willing to revisit it for next year's Banned Books Week. I'm so old I've forgotten much of it!

[Stacia]

In BNW the people deal with this by wanton drug use, so truly the government hasn’t achieved the utopia it has thought it has.

 

But, in BNW, the government/controlling body was the one supplying the drugs to the populace. It was payment for your job. Just another way to control everyone.

 

It made me think of the Kill the Messenger movie I saw last year. Part of the movie description from wikipedia (bolding mine):

Based on the true story of journalist Gary Webb, the film takes place in the mid-1990s. Webb uncovered the CIA's alleged role in importing crack cocaine into the U.S. to secretly fund the Nicaraguan contra rebels. Despite enormous pressure to stay away, Webb chose to pursue the story and went public with his evidence, publishing the series called "Dark Alliance". He then experienced a vicious smear campaign fueled by the CIA, during which he found himself defending his integrity, his family and his life.

 

In a slightly different vein, the movie I mentioned last week, Sicario, also focuses on the impact of the illegal drug trade on lives here in the US & in Mexico. (I know Sicario is a fictional story, but there are definitely parts that ring true.)

 

It is similarities like these that make dystopian pieces so chilling for me.

[Stacia]

Sorry that I'm posting a gazillion posts!

 

On a completely different note, I finished Horrorstor today. (I was going to read more of it last night, but I was to the gross/creepy/scary parts & decided I didn't want to read it right before sleeping. I'd probably recommend that you don't want to read the second half of the book while eating either. :lol: )

 

 

First, A+ for attention to detail. The copying of the Ikea catalog (print size, fonts, colors, heft, etc...), style of naming products, descriptive phrases used, & more -- just a delight! Loved the attention to all those details. Really perfect.

 

The story was pretty good -- not great literature, not 'fun' exactly (I can't imagine calling a horror book fun except for maybe John Dies at the End), but a decent pool/beach-level read in the horror genre. It took plenty of pokes at corporate/retail culture, threw in a decently creepy/scary storyline, & mixed it into an entertaining whole (as long as your idea of entertaining includes the scary undead from an 1800s prison & more... ;) ). As I neared the end, I kept hoping/wishing for a good ending for the main characters, but then I kept asking myself why I would even get my expectations up for that kind of thinking since it was, after all, a horror book. Don't want to give any spoilers, it's not really a happy ending, but it does end in a good way for the story. So, I actually liked the ending.

 

If you would go to a haunted house for fun this month, I think you would also be the type of person who would enjoy this book.

 

Boo!

[Kareni]

A couple of bookish posts ~

 

  Let them eat books: 13 cakes inspired by literature

These are truly impressive, but frankly I'm not sure I'd want to eat any of them!

 

***

Incredible Literary Jack O’Lanterns

And these are impressive, too!

 

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Chrysalis Academy]

I just started The Book of Chameleons.  Um, you guys know that it's narrated by a gecko, right?  ;)  :D  :001_tt2:

[Robin M]

Hubby just finished Hillenbrand's Unbroken and thoroughly enjoyed it.  My turn next.   Magnus Chase just arrived and in turnabout is fair play, I have stolen it from James to read first.    :laugh:

 

I finished Nalini Singh's Archangel's Enigma in her Guild Hunter series.  Thanks to Kareni's announcement that she just finished # 14 Shards of hope in her Psy/Changeling series, it reminded me I haven't read # 13 Shield  of Winter  yet.  Added both to my stacks.  

 

Okay, you all have talked me into reading Brave New World and Slaughterhouse Five.  But just not this month.   :lol:

 

 

One note about discussion on capitalism.  Look at the differences between capitalism and consumerism.  it's easy to confuse the two.   TV and advertising is all about consumerism, not capitalism.  The news is out to make news instead of report it these days.  I can watch something live, then watch the news later who take license with creative nonfiction instead of straight news reporting and change the facts.  Gone are the days of unbiased reporters. Everyone has an agenda.  So I don't watch filtered news, nor do I watch commercials, preferring to record and fast forwards any TV show.   All advertising has gone the way of making the white male look like a total idiot. I agree about the brainwashing and the mental manipulation which is why so many of us are homeschooling, right! Teaching our children to think for themselves.    

 

Since I own a small business, I'm glad we live in a free market society which capitalism is.   While all the big box stores are closing down because of their business models and poor customer service such as Good Guys, Radio Shack, Circuit City, Borders, Tower Books to name a few, the mom and pop shops, the independent businesses are thriving.  People still want personal service and don't want to be treated like a impersonal body with money.   

 

Yep, it is definitely scary to read dystopian novels and see that ideology or things happening similar in our world today.  Education and independent thinking and open discussions are more important than ever.  We've been having a lot of those types of discussion around our house with James so interested in the different countries, the wars and communism and socialism. Scary stuff.

 

Okay, off my soap box and back to books -- Just finished Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde and moving on to the Turn of the Screw.

 

 

 

[JennW in SoCal]

Greetings from the orchestra pit. It's a half hour before curtain and I'm having a hard time catching up with y'all. Lots of long & thoughtful posts yesterday and today.

 

Dh and I went to see The Martian this afternoon. I enjoyed it, but he came out fussing that he should never read the book first-- it always ruins the movie!

 

And, by the way, I highly recommend my current book, Barbarian Days: A Surfer's Life by Bill Finnegan. Its got travel, surf, and lots and lots of book discussion. And wow what a life this guy has led!!

[Ali in OR]

Dh and I went to see The Martian this afternoon. I enjoyed it, but he came out fussing that he should never read the book first-- it always ruins the movie!

 

 

 

Hey, my dh and I saw The Martian this afternoon too! We both loved it, but dh particularly so. 

[Robin M]

Butter and Angel. Hugs, bronchitis is so draining. Get some rest.

[Rosie_0801]

A couple of bookish posts ~

 

  Let them eat books: 13 cakes inspired by literature

These are truly impressive, but frankly I'm not sure I'd want to eat any of them!

 

 

Very pretty!

 

But I like my cake to be made of food.  :drool5:

[Chrysalis Academy]

Brave New World

 

snip

 

Quite frankly, I found a lot of parallels in our society today.

 

Brainwashing & mental manipulation:

 

 

Social strata:

In BNW, people are bred to belong to certain social strata & people stay firmly rooted in their tier for life. They think thoughts that go w/ their strata (through brainwashing), have jobs that go w/ their tier, hobbies that match their level, etc.... We definitely have social strata issues here in the US (just not genetically bred ones yet). There are various divisions & they impact things as varied as housing, nutrition, school access, safety, jobs/careers, & more. We have social stratification issues tied to immigration, a hot political topic at the moment. I also see our issues as social strata tied to marketing & buying. Because a lot of what we buy -- it's made in sweatshops outside of our country by people so poor, I'm not even sure we can imagine the poverty or their lives. But, they toil for our pleasure. (Hey! Look at this cute, cheap t-shirt I can buy today!) It's social stratification on a global scale. Does that mean we're even worse in that respect than BNW? At least the citizens of BNW saw & slightly interacted with the others once in awhile while we seem to do a lot to keep it out of sight/out of mind.

 

 

One last comment for now. At the back of the book I had, there was a letter Huxley wrote to George Orwell in 1949 (after having received a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four from Orwell). Huxley thanks Orwell for his book & discusses their different visions of the future. He then goes on to say,

 

At first, I thought of it as kind of an authorly snub of 'my dystopian view is better than your dystopian view', but after re-reading it & thinking about it, I am beginning to wonder if he's not right? Think about WWII to the present day. Have we had enough parallels to both Orwell's & Huxley's visions to see some truth in both of them?

 

Food for thought anyway.

 

re: social stratification - I think this is one of the most chilling aspects of BNW,  the degree to which the social stratification achieved by genetic *and environmental* manipulation in BNW actually exists in the here and now, without resort to all the techniques that Huxley describes.  Remember how he describes that lower classes were actually deprived of oxygen and nutrients while fetuses in order to stunt their brains and fit them for the lower orders? Poor maternal health, bad diet, stress, drugs, etc. do the same thing to babies and children today. So does living in run-down, mold infested, asbestos insulated, lead painted buildings. So does living in a community without a grocery store and access to fresh food. So does living with parent (s) or guardian(s) who subject them to ignorance/neglect/abuse.  The kids that come to school at our local public school, hungry and sleep deprived, with no one reading to them and helping them with their homework, are not bringing the same resources to the table as the kids who are chauferred to the private school down the road.  They lack opportunities and a level playing field, and that imbalance started before they were even born and it dogs their entire lives.  No genetic manipulation required.

 

Re: 1984 vs. BNW - I think both books are the works of really brilliant authors who were deeply concerned by what they saw around them in the world - the disillusioning effects of WW1 and Total War, the rise of fascism, the transformation of socialism into communism, the splintering of their societies and cultures.  I think they were seeing - Things fall apart. The center cannot hold. The best lack all conviction, and the worst are full of passionate intensity (apologies to Yeats).  And like brilliant authors of all ages, they were trying to address this, to rage against the dying of the light, with the tools they had - their imagination and their eloquence.  Each man's imagination took him in a different direction, but both visions still impact us today because there is a core of Truth - in the observations they made of their own society, and in the predictions they make for ours. We're lucky not to be living in the world that either one of them imagined, but without vigilance and attention from all of us, inspired by Truth spoken by writers of passionate conviction, there are no guarantees for the future.

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

One note about discussion on capitalism.  Look at the differences between capitalism and consumerism.  it's easy to confuse the two.   TV and advertising is all about consumerism, not capitalism.  The news is out to make news instead of report it these days.  I can watch something live, then watch the news later who take license with creative nonfiction instead of straight news reporting and change the facts.  Gone are the days of unbiased reporters. Everyone has an agenda.  So I don't watch filtered news, nor do I watch commercials, preferring to record and fast forwards any TV show.   All advertising has gone the way of making the white male look like a total idiot. I agree about the brainwashing and the mental manipulation which is why so many of us are homeschooling, right! Teaching our children to think for themselves.    

 

Since I own a small business, I'm glad we live in a free market society which capitalism is.   While all the big box stores are closing down because of their business models and poor customer service such as Good Guys, Radio Shack, Circuit City, Borders, Tower Books to name a few, the mom and pop shops, the independent businesses are thriving.  People still want personal service and don't want to be treated like a impersonal body with money.   

 

Yep, it is definitely scary to read dystopian novels and see that ideology or things happening similar in our world today.  Education and independent thinking and open discussions are more important than ever.  We've been having a lot of those types of discussion around our house with James so interested in the different countries, the wars and communism and socialism. Scary stuff.

 

Okay, off my soap box and back to books -- Just finished Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde and moving on to the Turn of the Screw.

 

Whenever discussions of capitalism come up, I always think of Inigo Montoya - I'm not sure that this word means what we think it means.  Or at least, I'm not sure it means the same thing to everybody.  A quick internet search turns up some wildly diverging definitions:

 

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. 

 

Hm, that definitely doesn't describe the US, at least not the second part.

vs.

Capitalism is the social system . . . [in which] the means for producing and distributing goods (the land, factories, technology, transport system etc) are owned by a small minority of people. We refer to this group of people as the capitalist class. The majority of people must sell their ability to work in return for a wage or salary (who we refer to as the working class.)

 

Under this definition, pretty much every modern country is capitalist, including China, the USSR, etc.

 

So . . . Is capitalism the same as free enterprise/a free market? Is consumerism a separate thing from capitalism, or is it a necessary component? Can a communist country be capitalist? What is the role of the government (if any) in regulating property rights or the market?  All fascinating questions. But I think until we define our terms we usually end up talking past one another.

 

I'm not trying to engage in or prolong a debate about capitalism, or to express a position one way or the other.  Just pointing out that when we talk about it, we might not all be talking about the same thing.

 

Man, you guys are making my brain hurt this morning! Thanks!  :hurray:

[NoseInABook]

The Martian was a lot of fun! Starting Horrorstor today and hoping it's a good one.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[idnib]

I watched two movies yesterday. 

 

The first was The Martian. Yes, I really was planning to read the book first but I started going backwards in the Overdrive hold queue, as if people were cutting in front of me. I talked to the librarian and they're not sure what's going on. Worried that it would leave the big screen before I get my turn, I headed off to see it. It was pretty good, but I can't decide if I want to re-read the entire story now. Anyone else read the book after seeing the movie?

 

The second movie was Sicario, which was very intense. And I say that as a lover of tense movies. I was so wound up I cried while walking home. What a movie. The audio/score work alone should garner an Oscar nomination, I think, and the cinematography was excellent. It did make The Martian pale in comparison so perhaps I shouldn't have seen them back to back. I'm always complaining that Hollywood does too many sequels and adaptations and should produce more original content. Well they did and now I'm wishing I could read the book! Anyone have a good Mexican cartel fiction book they could recommend?

[Kareni]

Yesterday I read the historical romance Forever Your Earl: The Wicked Quills of London by Eva Leigh.  The book had some witty dialogue which I enjoyed even if the motivation for the hero's actions I found somewhat far fetched.  I'll read more by this author.

 

"Eva Leigh's irresistible new series introduces the Wicked Quills of London: a group of bold, brilliant female writers whose spirited allure is beyond seductive . . .

 

Eleanor Hawke loves a good scandal. And readers of her successful gossip rag live for the exploits of her favorite subject: Daniel Balfour, the notorious Earl of Ashford. So when the earl himself marches into her office and invites her to experience his illicit pursuits firsthand, Eleanor is stunned. Gambling hells, phaeton races, masquerades . . . What more could a scandal writer want than a secret look into the life of this devilishly handsome rake?

 

Daniel has secrets, and if The Hawk's Eye gets wind of them, a man's life could be at stake. And what better way to distract a gossip than by feeding her the scandal she desperately craves? But Daniel never expected the sharp mind and biting wit of the beautiful writer, and their desire for each other threatens even his best-laid plans.

 

But when Eleanor learns the truth of his deception, Daniel will do anything to prove a romance between a commoner and an earl could really last forever."

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Angel]

:grouphug: :grouphug: , Angel. I hope you & Aly start feeling better soon!

 

And this is for you: :svengo:  (<--------- me re: your post when you said you liked SF better than BNW. I couldn't post the fainting smiley when I was on my touch pad.)  :lol:

 

ETA: Yes, I read Nineteen Eighty-Four... in 1984. Lol. It was a school assignment & I remember really liking it. (Enjoy just always seems the wrong word to use for dystopian books. Sigh.) I would be willing to revisit it for next year's Banned Books Week. I'm so old I've forgotten much of it!

:lol:   I read your other too posts but am too fuzzy to form a coherent reply, though...

 

 

One note about discussion on capitalism.  Look at the differences between capitalism and consumerism.  it's easy to confuse the two.   TV and advertising is all about consumerism, not capitalism.  The news is out to make news instead of report it these days.  I can watch something live, then watch the news later who take license with creative nonfiction instead of straight news reporting and change the facts.  Gone are the days of unbiased reporters. Everyone has an agenda.  So I don't watch filtered news, nor do I watch commercials, preferring to record and fast forwards any TV show.   All advertising has gone the way of making the white male look like a total idiot. I agree about the brainwashing and the mental manipulation which is why so many of us are homeschooling, right! Teaching our children to think for themselves.    

 

Since I own a small business, I'm glad we live in a free market society which capitalism is.   While all the big box stores are closing down because of their business models and poor customer service such as Good Guys, Radio Shack, Circuit City, Borders, Tower Books to name a few, the mom and pop shops, the independent businesses are thriving.  People still want personal service and don't want to be treated like a impersonal body with money.   

 

:iagree:  with Robin here.  However...

 

Butter and Angel. Hugs, bronchitis is so draining. Get some rest.

Thank you!  I should have listened sooner when Butter said go to the doctor if you are not getting better.

 

Whenever discussions of capitalism come up, I always think of Inigo Montoya - I'm not sure that this word means what we think it means.  Or at least, I'm not sure it means the same thing to everybody.  A quick internet search turns up some wildly diverging definitions:

 

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. 

 

 

oops, now the however, I, like Rose, also looked up capitalism.  This is the definition I found.  I proceeded to look up communism and socialism, and am sure we don't want either of those.  

[Jane in NC]

Posters on this thread continue to inspire me.  Thank you.

 

It has been decades since I have read either BNW or SF, several lifetimes ago it seems.  I plan to revisit both and in fact have dipped my toe into an audio version of BNW read by Michael York.  Be still my heart. (Remember York's portrayal of D'Artagnan? He also played Jolly in the original BBC production of The Forsyte Saga, the one that was made in the '60's.)

 

Something struck me as I was reading about the caste system outlined in the beginning of the book.  Oxygen and nutrient deprivation help keep lower caste members from having fully developed minds.  It seems to me that a subset of Americans, perhaps of a certain class, have felt that healthy life style is always a choice that a parent makes for her child.  I am not sure why but as I listened to BNW,  I thought about a much younger Jane reading this book for the first time in the late '70's.   Back then in my urban college neighborhood lead pain was an issue.  Lead paint was in the houses of the poor who often rented.  Echoing across the decades is a common line from the time period, i.e.  "There will always be poor people" as though this justified poisoning the children of the less affluent.  How different was this from the nutrient deprivation which we find so revolting from our easy chairs today?

 

So how shall I read/hear a BNW now? Will it be this Jane hearing it in context of modern society or will those echoes of a much younger Jane who was exposed to this book for the first time come forth to resonate?

 

Stay tuned...

 

[Stacia]

I watched two movies yesterday. 

 

The first was The Martian. Yes, I really was planning to read the book first but I started going backwards in the Overdrive hold queue, as if people were cutting in front of me. I talked to the librarian and they're not sure what's going on. Worried that it would leave the big screen before I get my turn, I headed off to see it. It was pretty good, but I can't decide if I want to re-read the entire story now. Anyone else read the book after seeing the movie?

 

The second movie was Sicario, which was very intense. And I say that as a lover of tense movies. I was so wound up I cried while walking home. What a movie. The audio/score work alone should garner an Oscar nomination, I think, and the cinematography was excellent. It did make The Martian pale in comparison so perhaps I shouldn't have seen them back to back. I'm always complaining that Hollywood does too many sequels and adaptations and should produce more original content. Well they did and now I'm wishing I could read the book! Anyone have a good Mexican cartel fiction book they could recommend?

 

Ds & I just saw The Martian today too. It was a lot of fun. Not sure about reading the book after the fact. (We both read it beforehand.) I think you'd be fine not reading it unless you have a particular interest in Mars/space/astronaut being McGyver.... Maybe save it for some time later when you're wanting a pool/beach type read. It's quick & fun, perfect for lighter reading.

 

I agree about Sicario. I loved it, even with the intensity & horror of the topic. I keep thinking about it, feeling that surely it will garner a few Oscar nominations (probably cinematography, script, actor for Benecio del Toro, & music/score too). The music is just haunting & perfect for it. Definitely want to see it again on the big screen while it's out. It's one of the few (or only?) movies I've seen so far this year that has really blown me away.

 

Re: capitalism/consumerism from earlier.... I think they're two sides of the same coin. Don't want to venture too far into political territory on here. Do still think that there are disturbing parallels to today's society, partly based on choices we're making, systems we use, things we purchase, ideals we value, .... I guess that's what made BNW so profoundly disturbing to me. To bring that conversation back around to the banned books part of it, I think BNW has some info that should make you want to run screaming in the opposite direction (whereas Slaughterhouse-Five focuses more on the heart-wrenching effects of war); I still find it odd that BNW has been challenged/banned less often than Slaughterhouse-Five. Again, not that I agree w/ banning either, but I am just surprised at the balance on this one. It makes me go :confused1: .

[Stacia]

I just started The Book of Chameleons.  Um, you guys know that it's narrated by a gecko, right?  ;)  :D  :001_tt2:

 

Really?!?!

 

:svengo:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;) :lol:

[mumto2]

I give.....finally put a hold on BNW. Even Jane is reading it! :lol:

 

I read SF last year so I understood that part of the conversation. Reread 1984 the year before. So now BNW. I read it in 1978 so it has been quite awhile. ;)

[Stacia]

The second movie was Sicario, which was very intense. And I say that as a lover of tense movies. I was so wound up I cried while walking home. What a movie. The audio/score work alone should garner an Oscar nomination, I think, and the cinematography was excellent. It did make The Martian pale in comparison so perhaps I shouldn't have seen them back to back. I'm always complaining that Hollywood does too many sequels and adaptations and should produce more original content. Well they did and now I'm wishing I could read the book! Anyone have a good Mexican cartel fiction book they could recommend?

 

One more comment about this.

 

This line hit me hard, chilled me. It makes you realize the true scope of the problem. (This is said in reference to a cartel head.): "Every day, across that border, people are killed with his blessing. To find him would be like... discovering a vaccine."

 

I did read No Country for Old Men earlier this year & it has a lot of the same scenery, a lot of the same intensity, & does deal with the drug cartels & what they spawn. That's the only book I can think of. I never saw the movie of No Country for Old Men because I thought it would be too scary, but I found the book excellent, if tense/harrowing. It's one of the best books I've read this year. When watching Sicario, I told my dh that the cinematography reminded me of No Country for Old Men (even though I never saw the movie). I just felt like I was seeing the same scenery as in McCormac's book.

 

Starred Review. Seven years after Cities of the Plain brought his acclaimed Border Trilogy to a close, McCarthy returns with a mesmerizing modern-day western. In 1980 southwest Texas, Llewelyn Moss, hunting antelope near the Rio Grande, stumbles across several dead men, a bunch of heroin and $2.4 million in cash. The bulk of the novel is a gripping man-on-the-run sequence relayed in terse, masterful prose as Moss, who's taken the money, tries to evade Wells, an ex–Special Forces agent employed by a powerful cartel, and Chigurh, an icy psychopathic murderer armed with a cattle gun and a dangerous philosophy of justice. Also concerned about Moss's whereabouts is Sheriff Bell, an aging lawman struggling with his sense that there's a new breed of man (embodied in Chigurh) whose destructive power he simply cannot match. In a series of thoughtful first-person passages interspersed throughout, Sheriff Bell laments the changing world, wrestles with an uncomfortable memory from his service in WWII and—a soft ray of light in a book so steeped in bloodshed—rejoices in the great good fortune of his marriage. While the action of the novel thrills, it's the sensitivity and wisdom of Sheriff Bell that makes the book a profound meditation on the battle between good and evil and the roles choice and chance play in the shaping of a life.

 

If you find any other cartel-related fiction, please share the titles. I'd like to find something else too.

 

And, just because I feel like it, I'm putting the trailer for Sicario back up. I really do recommend the film if you can handle gritty material.

 

 

[Jane in NC]

I give.....finally put a hold on BNW. Even Jane is reading it! :lol:

 

I read SF last year so I understood that part of the conversation. Reread 1984 the year before. So now BNW. I read it in 1978 so it has been quite awhile. ;)

 

Now we have controversy.  That is "Odd Jane" to you!  ;)

 

[Rosie_0801]

I finished reading 'Packing for Mars' to dd, heavily edited in places for the younger audience! Had to finish the last three paragraphs by mobile phone light because the power went off. Not the best choice for a read aloud, but it contained some very interesting stuff!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Really?!?!

 

:svengo:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;) :lol:

 

So do we think this is a tongue-in-cheek postmodern thing?  Or is it called the Book of Chameleons because people come to Felix to "change their skin," taking on new personas as they gain new pasts? Or does it have something to do with the surprising number of people who seem to get reincarnated (a form of skin-changing) as geckos?

 

:lol:

 

I have to say, this book is making me concentrate very hard for a Saturday afternoon. Sometimes I have trouble figuring out if it's the gecko speaking/his POV, or if it's Felix telling a story from his POV.  I need one of those handy keys you get in multiple POV novels that identifies this for me.

 

Just kidding.  Mostly  :leaving:

[NoseInABook]

Horrorstor sucked me in enough that I was able to finish it in 3.5 hours even with kids attempting to distract me. It was an interesting one for sure and I did enjoy the ending. The last Ruth Anne scene? Blargle!

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Kathleen.]

We are really excited this month to read all our spooky books.  I read Agatha Christie's "And Then There Were None" and my 9yo read "Who Was Edgar Allen Poe?" by Jim Gigliotti.

 

:) 

[Robin M]

 

 

Re: capitalism/consumerism from earlier.... I think they're two sides of the same coin. Don't want to venture too far into political territory on here. Do still think that there are disturbing parallels to today's society, partly based on choices we're making, systems we use, things we purchase, ideals we value, .... I guess that's what made BNW so profoundly disturbing to me. To bring that conversation back around to the banned books part of it, I think BNW has some info that should make you want to run screaming in the opposite direction (whereas Slaughterhouse-Five focuses more on the heart-wrenching effects of war); I still find it odd that BNW has been challenged/banned less often than Slaughterhouse-Five. Again, not that I agree w/ banning either, but I am just surprised at the balance on this one. It makes me go :confused1: .

I agree, we don't want to venture too far into political territory.  It's amazing how so many groups online define capitalism differently. Scary.   I think I'd rather go with Free enterprise definition since we like making a profit.   :lol:

 

Alrighty, back to books..

[Chrysalis Academy]

SPOILER WARNING:   If you haven't read Brave New World yet and you are planning to, you might want to skip this post - I am hoping that now that a cadre of people have read it, we might be able to talk about the end?  I am kind of at a loss as to how to interpret it.  So if you have thoughts to share, read on!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So here is a part of BNW we haven't discussed: what did you guys make of the whole John Savage character, and the ending?  I have to confess to being a little lost at the end.  Clearly, Huxley's view of "unimproved" society isn't any better than his view of the Brave New World - the Reservation is a very grim place.  John's struggles in trying to fit in to the BNW are understandable. His desire to go to the islands is too.  Even his decision to isolate himself is totally understandable. But then the weird self-flagellation thing and the culminating orgy of death?  I confess that I was also struggling to figure out what message we were meant to take from that whole resolution.  Huxley definitely doesn't subscribe to the Noble Savage POV, which I find refreshing, but I don't really know what to do with the whole ending sequence.  Does anyone have any thoughts?

[Robin M]

Link to week 41 - please continue conversation in new thread 

[Pam in CT]

Gracious, you ladies are straining my brain on the dystopian societies conversation (thank you).  Since we're about to head into the Big City for dinner, I guess I'll wait til the new thread is up...

 

 

Rose -- yeah, sure, he claims to be a gecko... I ask: is this any more reliable than any of the other claims being made by the various past-revising characters?   :lol: