Are you offended by swear words? Updated to add extra options and 2nd question

[Tsuga]

&%^$ no.

[poppy]

Funniest poll result:

183 people responded, but only 71 marked "I only use swear words when it's appropriate to do so (not in e.g. job interviews)"

 

Must be a whole lot of blue interview answers. "My biggest weakness is my d*mn perfectionist tendencies."

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Funniest poll result:

183 people responded, but only 71 marked "I only use swear words when it's appropriate to do so (not in e.g. job interviews)"

 

Must be a whole lot of blue interview answers. "My biggest weakness is my d*mn perfectionist tendencies."

Or perhaps thy use swear words in other situations that some people would not think are appropriate, since the job interview is only an example.  

[creekland]

I have heard of f*** being a slang term for copulate but not seem it as solely a reference to rape. http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/e52.html

 

As an aside, those traveling who are offended by the F word should beware of the name of this town: http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/austria.asp

 

Hmm, if we were all alive in the 15 - 1600s, then all would be ok!  I'm older, but not that old...

 

And in general, yes, it's just intercourse (also the name of a town in PA :coolgleamA: ).  But when said in the manner that most are saying it to someone, I doubt it's consensual for most - hence - rape.  Said between a couple in bed in a loving manner the word would fit in well!

 

I'm not sure why one would be offended by a town named after a person, esp when English isn't even their national language.  It's amusing though, in the same way the Chevy Nova was when they tried to sell it in Mexico.

[creekland]

Funniest poll result:

183 people responded, but only 71 marked "I only use swear words when it's appropriate to do so (not in e.g. job interviews)"

 

I didn't select that one as I selected the one below it about rarely using swear words.  I guess perhaps I should mention that the rarely used swear words only come in more appropriate situations, but I figured that was a given.

 

In my ideal life I wouldn't swear at all but again, here on the farm s--t is not a swear word, it's pretty much a part of life and easier to say than manure.  It only switches off the farm 'cause many others consider it a swear word.

[Sarah CB]

Where I live now, swearing is pretty normal.  And frankly, if you were to step out of your nice warm house and have the wind yank the door out of your hand and have pelting frozen rain hit your face, you might occasionally use the f-word, too.

 

The hard part has been my nine year old who was never really exposed to people who swear before this.  He thinks all the kids in the neighbourhood are " bad" because they swear so he didn't want to go out and play.  I've had to have big talks about cultural differences (swear words don't seem to be a big deal out here).  He's getting out a little bit more now and finally making some friends without being totally judgemental about their language, but it's taken almost a year.  I wish he'd just f*$%ing get over it.

[laundrycrisis]

I find it entertaining to listen to or read someone who swears very well. Most people aren't good enough at it for it to be interesting. Dropping gratuitous f bombs all over the place just to sprinkle them on is distasteful.

 

12 yo is reading The Martian. The swearing is pretty well done. We don't feel any need to shelter them from swearing. They understand they will have problems if they go around with a potty mouth.

[Sarah CB]

 

12 yo is reading The Martian. The swearing is pretty well done. We don't feel any need to shelter them from swearing. They understand they will have problems if they go around with a potty mouth.

 

I'm so glad you said that.  I bought The Martian for ds for Christmas after reading some great reviews.  Then a friend of his ended up in the hospital.  He had some serious injuries, including a concussion, so his parents had been reading out loud to him.  I wanted to bring something so I grabbed ds' (unread) copy of The Martian and gave it to them for their next read-aloud.

 

Then a few months later, I got ds the audio version of the book and he told me how much swearing was in it.  I'm hoping those parents don't think I'm an awful person for giving their son a book with so much swearing in it.  

[poppy]

I didn't select that one as I selected the one below it about rarely using swear words.  I guess perhaps I should mention that the rarely used swear words only come in more appropriate situations, but I figured that was a given.

 

In my ideal life I wouldn't swear at all but again, here on the farm s--t is not a swear word, it's pretty much a part of life and easier to say than manure.  It only switches off the farm 'cause many others consider it a swear word.

 

It was just a lighthearted comment.

I am fascinated to learn about the use of profanity on a farm, only used very literally. I learn so much here!

[SKL]

I don't know that "F- you" means "rape you."  I thought it was short for "go F yourself."

 

Not that I go around saying "F you" to people.  :P

[SKL]

Speaking of "sh!t," I know it isn't considered a cuss word everywhere.  I remember reading a handbook for people providing basic medical assistance in poor third world areas.  The book would say "feces (shit)" as if "shit" is the word everyone uses, "feces" not so much.  And when my friend came from an Asian country, she would say "shit" in all situations (e.g. in front of professors etc.), but was scandalized by some of the words she heard me say in more casual situations.

[Guest]

  But when said in the manner that most are saying it to someone, I doubt it's consensual for most - hence - rape. 

 

 

My quotey thing is super glitchy lately.

 

 

I have never ever heard anyone say that and actually thought they meant "I am going to f*** you whether you want it or not." That would be pretty terrifying, but it wouldn't be the word they used that made it thus. Geez.

 

lol Geez is for Jesus I guess?  I wonder who Louise is. From Geez Louise.

 

At worst...It always means something along the lines of "you're a complete jerk and I don't even care about you or your feelings right now."  But, yanno, in a situation where stronger language is called for. Or uncalled for, depending on your view I reckon.

 

But anyway on that note, Aziz Ansari has a great bit from a few years ago about his little cousin, Harris, writing the word "suck" on a school paper or  a job application or something like that hahahahaha. He goes on to tell him what sucks alludes to, in his funny comedian way lol.

 

Not super relevant, I guess, but it's a solid bit :lol:

 

[luuknam]

For God's sake or for Pete's sake... sake means purpose.  For Pete's purpose???  I guess I find myself amused by people using these and assume most don't know the meaning.  It's rarely used correctly.  I'm not sure it's a swear word/phrase like the others are.

 

I assumed the meaning of 'sake' in "for [whomever's] sake" was:

 

out of consideration for or in order to help someone. e.g. "I felt I couldn't give up, for my own sake or the baby's"

 

In which case, I think the usage is usually correct (except it may very well be said by people who don't believe, but still... it's an expression... you don't take "it's raining cats and dogs" literally either, right?).

 

As an aside, those traveling who are offended by the F word should beware of the name of this town: http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/austria.asp

 

I love this part:

 

"He went on to express his hope that further thefts will be avoided through the use of increased concrete and ... bigger screws."

 

I wonder if it's not Austrian youth who are stealing the signs to hang in their bedrooms/apartments though. I mean, unless the perpetrators are caught, who knows if they're taking the signs because they're offended or because they think they're "f*cking cool".

 

I didn't select that one as I selected the one below it about rarely using swear words.  I guess perhaps I should mention that the rarely used swear words only come in more appropriate situations, but I figured that was a given.

 

Yeah... that was intended to be a given.

[luuknam]

I have never ever heard anyone say that and actually thought they meant "I am going to f*** you whether you want it or not."

 

Well, it's an incomplete sentence, so we don't know who is supposed to be doing the f*cking in "f*ck you". I? You? We? Y'all? They? ... I wouldn't even count out bad grammar and he/she/it (or just missing the word "will" along with the subject).

 

Regardless, it's not a nice phrase by any means (nor is it's slightly milder wording with the word screw), and excluded from the poll this thread is about since it's directed at a person. I think it's a bit late to add a question about who thinks "f*ck you" is okay and who thinks it refers to rape, so anyone interested in that can start their own poll.

[Guest]

I find it very hard to believe people think rape is imminent when someone says "f*** you" to them in an altercation of the type someone would say that.

 

Certainly that's never what I've meant when I have said it.

 

I like how people act as if spoken language does anything besides communicate between the speaker and the listener, and in some cases, the over-hearers/audience.

[Bluegoat]

I do swear myself.  We have a famous old family video which has me cussing out my cousin when we were kids.  For years I was known as the family potty mouth because of that and a few other incidents.  My content has changed somewhat - I tend toward "b*%$#r, which my dh finds quite shocking - he always says "do you know what that means" and I am like, "well, yes I do."  There are swear words I think shouldn't be used, or rarely.  Some of the racial ones, and in many cases religious ones - I had a Hindu teacher in elementary school who didn't like us to say holy cow.  Those kinds of things are just rude. There are exceptions, as in Quebec.  So - just hearing swear words doesn't bother me.

 

I don't mind it in books or movies as long as it is used appropriately.  One of my favorite movies is In Bruges, which has a ton of swearing, and it might distract some people, but it doesn't bother me because it makes sense and the humour is substantial enough that there is plenty there besides profanity.

 

However - I also like to see language well used, and so I think it's important to really think about what the word means - just because people use it a lot doesn't mean that it doesn't actually an offensive idea. 

I also think that one of the purposes of swear words is to have words that are offensive or can express strong negative emotions.  If I say "F5434 that s&%$!" I want to mean it. That being the case, I  think it is something of a contradiction to expect that people will not find the words offensive.  If they became really non-offensive, we'd have to find other words to replace them.  So, if people use them they should be aware that there is always a chance they will be taken that way, that they will offend.  And as someone up thread pointed out - if you think clearly what a word like f&^% means, it really is a pretty aggressive word, and that should be taken into account.  Meaning matters.

 

I don't really like it when people use them just to be shocking - it's a substitute for having any really shocking or interesting ideas.  Teens I think are often doing that when they over-use swear words, most grow out of it, but it's lame and annoying while it goes on.  It is unkind to others and pathetic to try and shock people just so you can feel sophisticated or whatever.

[Bluegoat]

I find it very hard to believe people think rape is imminent when someone says "f*** you" to them in an altercation of the type someone would say that.

 

Certainly that's never what I've meant when I have said it.

 

I like how people act as if spoken language does anything besides communicate between the speaker and the listener, and in some cases, the over-hearers/audience.

 

I doubt people think it is imminent.  But that is the implication of the word - not a literal rape, but a metaphorical one.  The suggestion is taking something that is normally personal and intimate and making it impersonal with aggressive intent.  If someone says it and the context isn't quite clearly jokey or friendly or just habit, I think they should not be surprised if people take it with that kind of emotional force.

 

It's similar I think to "d%$n you."  People often don't mean a lot by it, but the content of the words themselves are "I am wishing you everlasting pain and suffering and separation from all that is good."  That is pretty strong stuff, and I'm not sure that the person not recognizing the meaning totally negates that content - the person on the receiving end may still hear that to some extent - though probably less so than with the other word.

[Guest]

Take it with (intended) "emotional force" and thinking someone wants to RAPE YOU are two different things.

 

Obviously.

 

I am quite certain you and everyone else knows that. Trying to make it out like anyone who admits to cursing on purpose is an imbecile who doesn't realize what they are saying, have truncated vocabularies, have small minds, or all of the above, doesn't negate the realities of the language being used as intended.

[albeto.]

I find it very hard to believe people think rape is imminent when someone says "f*** you" to them in an altercation of the type someone would say that.

 

Certainly that's never what I've meant when I have said it.

 

I like how people act as if spoken language does anything besides communicate between the speaker and the listener, and in some cases, the over-hearers/audience.

 

Me too. It's never the context in which I, my family, or my friends use it. It's not the context in which I read it in books or hear it in movies. In my experience, it's generally a stand-in word that can modify another word ("You got tickets to the Dead? F'ing awesome!" or "That dancer was f'ing huge"), replace a word "("Get that bong the f*** over here!"), stand as an exclamation ("I just got a speeding ticket. Again. F*** me!" or "Another leak in the ceiling? Well f****aduck."). But not rape. Even "F*** You!" translates for me to be more along the lines of a dismissal, whether that's in jest or seriousness. 

 

I had an English teacher in high school whose mind was brilliant. He was a linguistics geek of epic proportions. He also had a photographic memory and read the Oxford English Dictionary for fun. It was rumored he knew 17 dead languages (many of them similar, but still, right?) and had a running bet with any student or parent to present to him an English word (confirmed by being in the OED) to which he did not know the definition right there on the spot. He never lost. His rule in his classroom was no word was inappropriate, so long as it was used correctly. That of course started a conversation about the appropriate use of swear words (we were 14 and an adult talked seriously about swear words! we were beside ourselves!). The "F" word, according to my teacher, originally meant, "to pierce." That later became used exclusively for sexual congress, and now has taken on all kinds of meanings, many of which are only known through context. The online etymology dictionary says the history of the word can be traced to referring to sex, so maybe my teacher was wrong. But I don't think so. Anyway, the idea that it refers to rape is new to me as well, and doesn't conform with the context in which I hear it. 

[Minerva]

I have never thought of the F word as a literal Effing. To me, it has always been one of the strongest bad words because it is used the least. We have given it power by saving it for the ripest moments. "Damn" is also not literal to me. My mind doesn't go to a fiery pit when I hear it. I don't think of Poop when I hear "Sh@!" nor do I think of a butt if I hear "A$$."  I don't think of anything when I hear "jerk" (is it referring to masturbation?). They are like punctuation, like an out loud exclamation point. They lose their potency if used to frequently but I am never offended by them. I wouldn't use it in a job interview if I really wanted the job.

[Guest]

 "jerk" (is it referring to masturbation?). .

 

No. Steve Martin.

[luuknam]

I had an English teacher in high school whose mind was brilliant. He was a linguistics geek of epic proportions. He also had a photographic memory and read the Oxford English Dictionary for fun. It was rumored he knew 17 dead languages (many of them similar, but still, right?) and had a running bet with any student or parent to present to him an English word (confirmed by being in the OED) to which he did not know the definition right there on the spot. He never lost. His rule in his classroom was no word was inappropriate, so long as it was used correctly. That of course started a conversation about the appropriate use of swear words (we were 14 and an adult talked seriously about swear words! we were beside ourselves!). The "F" word, according to my teacher, originally meant, "to pierce." That later became used exclusively for sexual congress, and now has taken on all kinds of meanings, many of which are only known through context. The online etymology dictionary says the history of the word can be traced to referring to sex, so maybe my teacher was wrong. But I don't think so. Anyway, the idea that it refers to rape is new to me as well, and doesn't conform with the context in which I hear it. 

 

According to the internet, etymologically it could be related to the Dutch word 'fokken', which means 'to breed' (conjugation : ik fok, jij fokt, hij/zij/het fokt, wij fokken, jullie fokken, zij fokken). So, if I were to follow that possible etymological strand, it'd be "breed you", which would be sort of a compliment (albeit an objectifying one), since one would typically only breed good animals and not the bad ones.

 

Not that I think anyone means that when they say it.

 

As a side note, there is a story (probably made-up) about a former Dutch Prime Minister talking to then-president Bill Clinton, in which the PM tried to ask him in his mediocre English whether he breeds horses: "Do you fok horses?" Bill replies: "Pardon?" And the PM says: "Yes, paarden". ('paarden' is Dutch for horses)

[Bluegoat]

Take it with (intended) "emotional force" and thinking someone wants to RAPE YOU are two different things.

 

Obviously.

 

I am quite certain you and everyone else knows that. Trying to make it out like anyone who admits to cursing on purpose is an imbecile who doesn't realize what they are saying, have truncated vocabularies, have small minds, or all of the above, doesn't negate the realities of the language being used as intended.

 

No one said anyone was an imbecile.  I think the assumption was that people were thinking people who would be willing to reflect on how they use language and the meaning of words is something worth reflecting on.

 

People don't always think a lot about the language they use if it is just a common use.  A lot of people use that word simply because it is strong language, or even out of habit and it is just a thing they say. 

 

What was suggested is that it can be a good idea to step back, and think about the words we are using, and what they really mean themselves.  Because whether or not that is your intent, the word have a relationship to that meaning so long as it isn't totally historical - and in this case, it isn't.  So if we are aware of the power of language, we will want to think - is anyone likely to take this more literally or seriously than I mean it?  Does my context make it clear what I am and am not saying?  Do I feel comfortable using a metaphor that is about sexually using someone like an animal and is it consistent with my values? Am I using it with less gravity than it warrants?

[poppy]

I have never, ever, once, ever thought of "f---k you" as being related to rape.
It is the same as "go to H---" or "sit and spin" or "kiss my a---" or "bite me".

None of those are to be taken strictly literally. 

They are idiomatic expressions.

[SKL]

On thinking what words mean:  when I was a kid in school, I told a classmate what my mother had said about something.  I rattled off one of her famous strings of cuss words, which I had never really analyzed before.  My classmate was horrified.  Then I thought about the words, and that's when I realized what my mom was literally saying all those years.  Some things about alternative sex acts, unusual sex partners, fatherless puppies ....

[Bluegoat]

I have never, ever, once, ever thought of "f---k you" as being related to rape.

It is the same as "go to H---" or "sit and spin" or "kiss my a---" or "bite me".

None of those are to be taken strictly literally. 

They are idiomatic expressions.

 

To you. I don't think that is ubiquitous at all though.  I always think of it as being related to rather rough sex.  I daresay there are a fair number of people who use it that way in their private life - certainly the porn industry does.  So it is in people's minds, and even if you say it idiomatically, there is a reasonable chance people will associate it in some way with aggressive sex.

 

I'm not saying rape, by the way, because I don't think that is the direct meaning.  But if you are telling someone you are angry at or don't like you are going to inflict rough sex on them, even as a sort of metaphor for what you think they are worth, that would presumable be non-consensual sex.  I am actually ok with that - I think swearing isn't swearing if it doesn't express a strong feeling and that is pretty strong - but many people never like the idea of sex used as a weapon.

 

 

[albeto.]

What was suggested is that it can be a good idea to step back, and think about the words we are using, and what they really mean themselves.  Because whether or not that is your intent, the word have a relationship to that meaning so long as it isn't totally historical - and in this case, it isn't.  So if we are aware of the power of language, we will want to think - is anyone likely to take this more literally or seriously than I mean it?  Does my context make it clear what I am and am not saying?  Do I feel comfortable using a metaphor that is about sexually using someone like an animal and is it consistent with my values? Am I using it with less gravity than it warrants?

 

People may not sit and ponder on the philosophical implications of applied etymology, but most people recognize when they've offended someone by their words. Basic social skills allows one to realize when they've upset their conversational partner. If there is an element of respect, that will be modified. If not, who's to say it wasn't purposeful? Or unintentional? One previous poster hid letters to the word "stupid." That floored me. How much dedicated thinking does one have to engage in to conclude offending someone by using the word "stupid" in context doesn't present an ethical dilemma? An increasing number of people don't care that using words like f*ck don't present an ethical dilemma for the same reason. And also, because it doesn't necessarily refer to rape. It doesn't make sense to say "That show was raping awesome!" Or "Rape me, I've got another wart!" If people hear that, it's on them. No ethical dilemma, and it doesn't require a lot of time to work that one out. 

[poppy]

To you. I don't think that is ubiquitous at all though.  I always think of it as being related to rather rough sex.  I daresay there are a fair number of people who use it that way in their private life - certainly the porn industry does.  So it is in people's minds, and even if you say it idiomatically, there is a reasonable chance people will associate it in some way with aggressive sex.

 

I'm not saying rape, by the way, because I don't think that is the direct meaning.  But if you are telling someone you are angry at or don't like you are going to inflict rough sex on them, even as a sort of metaphor for what you think they are worth, that would presumable be non-consensual sex.  I am actually ok with that - I think swearing isn't swearing if it doesn't express a strong feeling and that is pretty strong - but many people never like the idea of sex used as a weapon.

 

It can be about aggressive sex. Obviously. It usually isn't. Also, I think, obviously.....  What do you think people are saying when they say things like "I wish this f--- car would get out of my way!" or "Do you want to go to the beach?" "Abso-f..king-lutely!".

 

I have a fairly literal imagination, which is one reason I hate the expression "He scared the s--t out of me".  But I know that's my problem, not how the expression is meant  to be heard.

 

 

Your post about thinking about the meaning behind words reminded me of this exchange from Star Trek:

 

Lt. Jenna D'Sora: Those times were really special... I wish we were back there now, you and I.

Lt. Cmdr. Data: The unidirectional nature of the time continuum makes that an unlikely possibility.

Lt. Jenna D'Sora: That's what I love about you, Data. You make me laugh.

[Guest]

I think you just watch better movies than I do, Blue Goat :laugh:

[mommymilkies]

They're just words.  To me it differs if you're using them as an insult or an exclamation.  Like I have no problem people calling their TV a POS, but it's inappropriate to call a child one.  Does that make sense?

[lea_lpz]

I don't know that "F- you" means "rape you." I thought it was short for "go F yourself."

 

Not that I go around saying "F you" to people. :P

I believe it's an acronym for "fortification under consent of King"--- you know, so the king could grant you pardon of sin for having an affair or sex out if wedlock for him or his buddies.

[Guest]

I believe it's an acronym for "fortification under consent of King"--- you know, so the king could grant you pardon of sin for having an affair or sex out if wedlock for him or his buddies.

 

snopes says nein

[Lisbeth]

So I don't appreciate swearing out in the public sphere, and I don't like it around children.  Mormons are known to be obstainers.  I am not a Mormon from birth.  I have had to work hard to reel cursing in 100% since joining the church.  I never used it much, but only in certain circumstances.

 

This whole conversation reminds me of Paul Fussell's book on social class:  in it a high class child is quoted as saying something like, 'Mummy says 'pardon' is a much worse word than f***.'"  :001_cool:

[Kari C in SC]

I did grow up in a bar, but I swear way more than my parents and grandparents. (Grandparents owned the bar.)

There is one swear word I absolutely hate to hear and used to swear I'd never use it, but I do find myself using it once or twice a year when the situation calls for it.

 

I do not like when strangers swear in public mixed company.

 

I am probably a hypocrite.

This sounds like me. I didn't used to swear much. I did swear, but what I call my mother's swear words - the more tame ones. Then my son died and swearing became a bigger part of me. I swear quite often in my own house or in my small circle. I don't swear AT people or in anger. But, like you said, I don't like hearing strangers swear in public mixed company. I guess because I am careful to not swear around other people's kids or people that are really uncomfortable with it... Therefore all people must do the same. Yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite too.

[LucyStoner]

I am a feminist and a rape survivor. I have never, to my recollection, heard or encountered the f word as a synonym or even a sorta kinda synonym for rape in and of itself. It's not like I don't keep up on the issues surrounding our culture and sexual violence either.

[Laura Corin]

I doubt people think it is imminent.  But that is the implication of the word - not a literal rape, but a metaphorical one.  The suggestion is taking something that is normally personal and intimate and making it impersonal with aggressive intent.  If someone says it and the context isn't quite clearly jokey or friendly or just habit, I think they should not be surprised if people take it with that kind of emotional force.

 

It's similar I think to "d%$n you."  People often don't mean a lot by it, but the content of the words themselves are "I am wishing you everlasting pain and suffering and separation from all that is good."  That is pretty strong stuff, and I'm not sure that the person not recognizing the meaning totally negates that content - the person on the receiving end may still hear that to some extent - though probably less so than with the other word.

 

Words change their meaning.  Whatever 'damn you' meant originally, It has acquired a second meaning.

 

I can promise you that British people who say, 'Bugger me!' as an expression of surprise are not inviting anal intercourse.

[luuknam]

Words change their meaning.  Whatever 'damn you' meant originally, It has acquired a second meaning.

 

I can promise you that British people who say, 'Bugger me!' as an expression of surprise are not inviting anal intercourse.

 

It certainly would surprise them, no?

[DhanyaCali]

I am offended by swearwords, or at least I find them tasteless and classless.

 

My mom casually swears a great deal.

 

My husband goes on the roller coaster as he tries to quit, sometimes he is fine but other times they slip in regularly . He works with coarse mouthed construction workers (he is a construction worker :) ) all day and it is their day in day out language. We have learned that if he swears at work he will swear at home, so he needs to stop it everywhere to have the mouth he wants to have.

 

I have a WICKED bad soft swearing problem myself!! Freaking, darn, etc. DH always tells me that that is nearly as bad because the intent is the same, but I haven't been able to wean myself of such exclamatory and descriptive phrases *yet* Yesterday DS5 told me he drew a, "A long line, it's freaking LONG!" though, so I think I have some motivation!!!!!!!!!

 

Fascinating video about curse words, cites studies done that shows humans can withstand more pain when uttering hard cuss words.

 

[DhanyaCali]

Also pregnancy potty mouth is a real thing! Wow! Makes it harder. Especially online, find myself typing out cr*p and the likes. How is that OK with my stated position on cursing? Mmm, it isn't, note to self :)