My3girls Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My world geography curriculum has an assignment where I am to have my students read 2 brief case studies, pick one and create a diagram for pros and cons of the dam, then write a position paper on whether they would recommend the dam be built if they could go back in time with this information. My dd13 could do this without too much issue, but I am not sure that my 9 & 10 year old could do this yet. Would your 9 or 10 year old be able to do this assignment effectively? I know all our kids are different. I am just looking for a general consensus to see this is 4th grade level appropriate. I don't want to hold them back. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Mine could not, but I've not taught the necessary skills to do so. I guess if you think you have given them the skills you could let them try. Or, you could all do it together as a group project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Not without help. My 11 year old would need help to organize the list and then a plan to follow to write the essay. The writing part he could do, but not the figuring out what to do and how to set it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Nope. I didn't stress output for Eldest. But if I felt it was a priority to do that sort of thing it would have been possible. Youngest could not. But I'm proud to say he could now read the case studies without help. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think that the necessary abstract thinking skills are not in place to require this assignment of 9 and 10 year olds. I have an almost 10 year old bright 4th grader, and she would struggle with this. I would also think her time would be better spent on other pursuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeachyDoodle Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My dd10 would. I actually think this would be a good exercise for her. She has always been a good writer and is able to organize her thoughts easily. I don't see the harm in letting them try. You can always facilitate a discussion with them about the pros/cons and then let them write a paragraph: "I would/would not build the dam because..." with two or three reasons. Or even just do the whole exercise orally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Both my boys could do the assignment orally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 read 2 brief case studies, pick one and create a diagram for pros and cons of the dam, then write a position paper on whether they would recommend the dam be built if they could go back in time with this information. Mine could only because the skills were explicitly covered in their K12 LA when they were with the online charter. Their K12 teachers made used of graphic organizers for writing in K-3. DS10 would basically string his points together into short sentences because he is just not into writing. DS9 would elaborate a lot on his points because he is just a very verbose kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Both my boys could do the assignment orally. I would consider doing this as an oral exercise in which I led the discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My 12yo dd would struggle with the logic part and my 12yo ds would struggle with the writing aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Dd would have done (and actually did!) assignments like that orally when she was 10 and 11. Have your youngers do it orally---their arguments may be more developed than if they were forced to write them down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think my 8 year old could do this, but she would produce something less sophisticated than a 13 year old would. Basically you read, make a list of pros and cons, then share your opinion? The level of the original material might change my answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I would expect the 9&10 yos to use a graphic organizer and do a more brief version of the assignment, so a paragraph instead of a page. They could even do a poster or artistic representation, rather than a paper. If you make the project too arduous, you lose the point in the details. If the point is for them to practice debating a topic, don't get lost in other details. I did similar debates on topics with my dd at that age, but we did them orally. If you look at teacher materials for those ages, they're still using a lot of graphic organizers to guide analysis, creative projects, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 No. But she could discuss the thing step by step and articulate her position. But writing it all down would be like pulling teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think it would be a fun project to do with them. I'm sure I'd end up simplifying it as much as possible, and then doing the activity mostly oral with them, with a very simple "pros" and "cons" chart. I'd probably give them a couple pros and cons ideas myself as examples (maybe less obvious one -- saving the more obvious ones for them), and then lead them as close as necessary to some ideas that they could come up with themselves. Then we'd talk about it. I also find that putting yourself into a scenario makes it far easier to understand. You can create a scenario where your family is living in the area of the dam and how you would be affected by either decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF612 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My 8 year old/3rd grader could do it with an open discussion first about the pros/cons. His writing is fine (not delayed or accelerated) but he doesn't have the ability to view something from different directions without guidance. Once we talked through it he could write his opinion. It wouldn't be award winning writing but would get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 That is not an objective I have for 4th graders. Position papers are what I have high schoolers writing. Obviously even college students are still working on perfecting the skill: http://www.xavier.edu/library/students/documents/position_paper.pdf. ;) In 4th grade my typical goals are solid paragraph writing and synthesizing info from 3 brief articles. I want to see a strong topic sentence and well-constructed supporting sentences. Their paragraphs are going to be factual in nature, not persuasive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My world geography curriculum has an assignment where I am to have my students read 2 brief case studies, pick one and create a diagram for pros and cons of the dam, then write a position paper on whether they would recommend the dam be built if they could go back in time with this information. My dd13 could do this without too much issue, but I am not sure that my 9 & 10 year old could do this yet. Would your 9 or 10 year old be able to do this assignment effectively? I know all our kids are different. I am just looking for a general consensus to see this is 4th grade level appropriate. I don't want to hold them back. Thanks! I think my 10.5 year old 5th grader could do this, I'm fairly certain my 8.5 year old 3rd graders would need help with some aspects of it, but they would be eager to try. At first glance, it sounds like a complex assignment. However, if we broke it down, there are manageable chunks of work: 1. Read two brief case studies. -- They could all do this. I might have to check for comprehension with my twins, but they could all read just about anything. We could go over vocabulary, to make sure the concepts are understood. Discuss together and/or read them aloud after they've read them independently. 2. Pick one. -- Honestly, this might be the hardest part of the assignment for one of my girls! "Um.... this one... no, wait! This one..." Just choose, please. 3. Create a diagram for pros and cons of the dam. -- I know my 5th grader is familiar with the concept of "pros and cons," I'm fairly certain my 3rd graders are not. We'd have to go over that as a concept, and practice listing pros and cons of other things first. I would want them to practice by listing the pros and cons of something familiar to them -- for example, What are the pros and cons of keeping the pool next summer (cons: cost, upkeep, need a new pump, etc.; pros: exercise, family fun, nice having it in the backyard, etc.). Then, I'd have them practice again on something less familiar -- What are the pros and cons of joining the nature study group one day a month? Then we could come back to the dam case studies. I'd probably have to provide the structure for the dam diagram, too, but once I did that, I think they could fill it in. 4. Write a position paper on whether they would recommend the dam be built if they could go back in time with this information. -- The 5th grader could, and the 3rd graders would be eager to attempt it. Anything to be able to use the word "dam" with impunity. We would probably skip this as a writing assignment, though. We might do the "pros and cons" discussion, if they seemed interested in the topic. Actually, at this age, I'd actually prefer that they work on their ability to narrate and describe and summarize. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 In 4th grade, no. She'd probably have fun with the discussion, but it's not a writing assignment I'd ask her to do. Like 8, my goals for a 4th grader are very different. Persuasive writing and position papers are assignments for older students here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My3girls Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Ok, good... most of you articulated what I was thinking. I think I'll have my 13 year old do the assignment as stated but have the youngers read the case studies, have an oral discussion, and then I will help them with the diagram and leave it at that. We're just to the point of separating our writing assignments into multiple paragraphs instead of one long one, kwim? I kinda was like "Holy crap!" when I saw the assignment. lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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