When your child tells you they've added a minor....

[sassenach]

DD just told me that she's added a minor, without changing her emphasis (in other words, no overlap in courses). She has added this in addition to her plan to complete a 4 1/2 year program in 4 years. She seems to think that she will magically be able to do this without increasing the amount of time she is in school, because we absolutely cannot afford that.

 

Also, minor coursework doesn't start until junior year. So....her plan is 20-21 credits a semester her jr and sr year. She doesn't understand why I'm concerned.  :banghead:

 

Note: if she switches her emphasis, it's only 9 additional credits to complete the minor. That's what I thought the plan was. 

 

I've asked her to schedule an academic advising appointment for us before school starts.

 

 

 

 

[texasmama]

Can she take some courses during the summer?  Even six hours per summer over two summers makes this quite a workable plan.  Meeting with an advisor is always a good idea.

[elegantlion]

She also needs to make sure courses are offered on a regular sequence. I'd like to add another minor but for the focus I want I can't get the classes in on time. Also, some of my upper level courses offer one section per semester and I'm crossing my fingers I don't have time overlap issues as they are two different departments with my current major and minor. 

[sassenach]

Can she take some courses during the summer?  Even six hours per summer over two summers makes this quite a workable plan.  Meeting with an advisor is always a good idea.

Yes, that's something she brought up, which I think is a great idea. I'm just not sure it's wise to hinge the entire execution of the plan on getting into the classes she will need. There has to be some sort of margin, ya know?

 

She's chosen a theater emphasis. My concern is that theater classes will end up being an expensive detour. 

[sassenach]

She also needs to make sure courses are offered on a regular sequence. I'd like to add another minor but for the focus I want I can't get the classes in on time. Also, some of my upper level courses offer one section per semester and I'm crossing my fingers I don't have time overlap issues as they are two different departments with my current major and minor. 

That was part of what I was trying to communicate to her last night. There are more factors than just a checklist of classes. She seems to think that this is an overreaction. 

 

She was being very 18 last night. 

[Daria]

Is this the rising freshman in your signature?

 

I wouldn't worry about a freshman's plan for coursework their junior year.  She's got a lot to learn about college, about her ability to handle the workload, about herself as a student, and about her interests.  It's likely that things will change several more times before she settles on a choice.  

 

I'd keep emphasizing that you can only pay for 4.5 years, but if she has a plan, then I wouldn't worry about how realistic it is.  Especially if she can always go back to just one major without penalty.

[bettyandbob]

Isn't that going to cost more. In visiting colleges I've noticed many schools have a rate for full time that is 12-18 credits. Any credit over 18 is charged at the par time rate in addition to full time tuition.

 

This is different from when I was in college, where if you could handle an overload and could get approval you could take as many classes as you wanted at the full time tuition price.

 

Since you said you couldn't afford more than 4 years, you might look into where this plan would add to the cost of 4 years.

[TKDmom]

Is this the rising freshman in your signature?

 

I wouldn't worry about a freshman's plan for coursework their junior year.  She's got a lot to learn about college, about her ability to handle the workload, about herself as a student, and about her interests.  It's likely that things will change several more times before she settles on a choice.  

 

I'd keep emphasizing that you can only pay for 4.5 years, but if she has a plan, then I wouldn't worry about how realistic it is.  Especially if she can always go back to just one major without penalty.

 

Exactly.

 

I officially changed my major 3 or 4 times. And they were major changes: Pre-veterinary-->Family Science-->Chemistry.  I had a physics minor declared at one point, but decided I didn't like physics enough to take the last 4 credits of that... I did manage to graduate in just over 4 years, despite switching to chemistry at the end of my sophomore year, but it wasn't easy. And during my senior year I got married and became eligible for Pell grants. 

 

Anyway, my point is, a lot can change over 4 years of college. It's good that you are talking with her about her choices. Make it clear that she need to finish in 4 years before the money runs out, but don't belabor it. She will figure out how to be responsible for her choices as she gets used to college. And hopefully she'll realize on her own that 21 credits is insane. I was never able to handle more than 15.

 

Says the woman who doesn't have college age kids yet. ;)

[Love_to_Read]

I would bite your tongue in regards to this plan for the moment, but encourage her to do an extra curricular performance early on...such as freshman spring, or sophomore fall.....just to get a realistic feel for how very much time theater consumes even during a semester with a NORMAL number of credits.

 

Also 20-21 credits often requires special permission...where I went, you had to have a certain GPA in order to get a waiver to take that many.  So, as someone suggested about giving her time to learn about how many credits feel comfortable, I'd also give her some time to meet an advisor who will tell her the same thing, and time to get more familiar with relevant university policies.

 

The best thing my advisor ever did for my harebrained idea to take an uncommon dual major was to hand me the course catalogues for odd and even years, fall and spring, and tell me to plot out those two majors to see whether there were conflicts, whether I could actually make them fit into 4yrs or not, because the schedules actually tended to be very repetitive from year to year....such-and-such was always a spring evening course, even years only, and such-and-such was always an 8am class in the fall, taught by only one ancient professor, and that meant taking it a different semester than that 8am internship, which meant getting its prerequisites done way early or else missing the boat in time for it to come around again before graduation.  But that's a conversation for her to have with her advisor first, with you only stepping in if the advisor doesn't ground her with such a practical discussion after she's had a semester to adjust to college life.

[Love_to_Read]

Can she take a full semester this fall of classes that will count for either emphasis? Or possibly splurge on choosing one course (within an otherwise dual purpose fall)  that is specific to one emphasis, to help clarify her path?

[creekland]

I fully agree with not worrying about it at all - or trying to convince her otherwise - at this point in time.  I suspect college itself will show her what she can handle.

 

And it is possible for (some) kids to do it all and do it well.  My middle son will be graduating with 2 majors and 2 minors - all could have been done in four years (with some overloading he's done - it did not cost us extra, but he did need permission).  He will be taking five years because to all that he added another concentration in a totally different area of interest.  Where he goes, if this is accepted (it was) the 5th year is tuition free.  Since he plans to continue being an RA, his room will also be free.

 

Did I mention he was a little miffed that he couldn't fit in one additional class for a third minor?  And he currently has a 3.96 GPA going into his senior year?

 

Some kids enjoy it.  Let them fly.  If it's not for your student, she'll figure it out freshman year and change accordingly.  My other two shifted from their original course of action as well (just changing majors for them).  That's pretty normal.

[sassenach]

Isn't that going to cost more. In visiting colleges I've noticed many schools have a rate for full time that is 12-18 credits. Any credit over 18 is charged at the par time rate in addition to full time tuition.

 

This is different from when I was in college, where if you could handle an overload and could get approval you could take as many classes as you wanted at the full time tuition price.

 

Since you said you couldn't afford more than 4 years, you might look into where this plan would add to the cost of 4 years.

I had't thought of this. I'm not seeing anything on their website that limits the number of credits, but I'll ask the adviser. 

[sassenach]

Thanks for the feedback. This is all what I needed to hear.

[BlsdMama]

I agree with an honest talk about what you're willing to pay for - four years.  And then I would just remind myself that she's a freshman.  Some kids really CAN handle excess hours.  Ana did excess hours her first two sememesters and took four classes this summer.  She's carrying a 3.55 GPA and is five credits short of being a junior instead of an incoming sophomore.  She was originally double majoring, decided to drop that to a minor, then decided to drop her minor.  ;)  It's a LOT of work.  She may decide, as she adjusts to the workload and sees her grades, that she would just like  to get her Bachelor's as fast as possible. ;)  

[Tree Frog]

We set up an Excel spreadsheet for dd showing which classes she needed to take when based on info from dd's catalog. This gave her a visual picture of what things would look like. When she changed her major, she and dh set up another one. She was able to take the spreadsheet in to her adviser to see if they had missed anything. This allowed dh to show dd how to stagger classes, make sure the classes were in the right sequence, and (approximately) how much money she would need for each semester. We, too, had some concerns about dd's ability to finish in 4 years and the spreadsheet allowed us all to see how everything would fit together. It's like a road map for the next 4 years.

[creekland]

the spreadsheet allowed us all to see how everything would fit together. It's like a road map for the next 4 years.

 

My guy did this too.  It was super useful for him with all he wanted to accomplish.

[cjzimmer1]

Honestly I think it all depends on what the major is and what the minor is and how time intensive those classes are.  By the end of my junior year I had finished all the needed classes for both my major and minor and general requirements with the exception of my senior project for my major.  In other words I had one class I HAD to take senior year and everything else was my choice.  I did an entire minor my senior year (minus one class I had taken junior year and discovered I loved the subject). So yeas it's possible to take complete a minor with only a year or two of time to work on it but like I said it's all about what else is going on at the time. But like PP said, if your child is just an incoming freshman, I wouldn't even let it cross my radar of worries at this point.  So many people change their mind about majors and minors once they actually get there and see the time requirements and discover something is or isn't what they though.  Let her dream big now and support if if she comes back and says she changed her mind again.

[school17777]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread except to say that when I see the title I keep thinking that your child is letting you know they had a baby!

[Teachin'Mine]

I thoroughly agree that her plans now should be a non-issue.  Support her and encourage her to meet with her advisor to see if all is possible and let her begin college looking forward to her studies enthusiastically.   She'll be able to form her plan much better with having completed courses and plans are often changing.

 

I have worked out on paper how dd can fit things into four years for what she wants to do, and she has done the same on her computer, but the idea of putting it on Excel sounds great.  May I ask those who have done this how they or you organized the spread sheet?   Do you put types of classes needed at the top of the columns and then fill in the specific courses for each semester under that?   How do you indicate what pre-reqs are needed, especially if they're in a different subject area? I don't need a visual of the actual plans you have, but just an explanation would be great.   I suppose it could also be organized with each of the semesters in a separate column.  What did you, or your student, find that worked best.  For all I know, dd may already have done this, but I'd like to set one up for myself.  

[Azalea]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread except to say that when I see the title I keep thinking that your child is letting you know they had a baby!

 

LOL

[Hoggirl]

I am slowly learning to go with the flow. Ds has an overall plan, but the details of that do seem to fluctuate (more frequently than I would like). For whatever reason, ds and his peers seem to not be the best of planners. The weight of the decision seems to have no impact at all from my outside observation. In other words, the fluidity of majors/minors/study abroad/summer work and internships seems to be as "loose" with regard to planning as where they are going out to dinner or what movie they will see. As an only-child OCD person, this drives me bonkers!!! I try to interject reasonable thoughts - sometimes they are appreciated, sometimes not.

 

Ds has now learned to end every potential change with, "Don't worry - I will finish in four years." Ha ha! At least my primary concern has taken hold. There will be no grafting onto the money tree. Ds is well-aware.

[Jen in NY]

I am slowly learning to go with the flow. Ds has an overall plan, but the details of that do seem to fluctuate (more frequently than I would like). For whatever reason, ds and his peers seem to not be the best of planners. The weight of the decision seems to have no impact at all from my outside observation. In other words, the fluidity of majors/minors/study abroad/summer work and internships seems to be as "loose" with regard to planning as where they are going out to dinner or what movie they will see. As an only-child OCD person, this drives me bonkers!!! I try to interject reasonable thoughts - sometimes they are appreciated, sometimes not.

 

Ds has now learned to end every potential change with, "Don't worry - I will finish in four years." Ha ha! At least my primary concern has taken hold. There will be no grafting onto the money tree. Ds is well-aware.

 

This!!

 

My dd is going abroad in a week. In a week!! Almost nobody has arranged for apartments yet. "They do it when they get there mom!"

 

Um, what?????? These people are going to a foreign country for a year and have no housing arrangements?

 

:svengo:

 

If I make it two more years it will be a miracle.

 

 

[Hoggirl]

This!!

 

My dd is going abroad in a week. In a week!! Almost nobody has arranged for apartments yet. "They do it when they get there mom!"

 

Um, what?????? These people are going to a foreign country for a year and have no housing arrangements?

 

:svengo:

 

If I make it two more years it will be a miracle.

This is why I drink.

[creekland]

This is why I drink.

 

You had to wait until college for a reason?

[Hoggirl]

You had to wait until college for a reason?

Ha ha - no. So at least it wasn't a new skill I had to learn.

[creekland]

I have worked out on paper how dd can fit things into four years for what she wants to do, and she has done the same on her computer, but the idea of putting it on Excel sounds great.  May I ask those who have done this how they or you organized the spread sheet?    

 

I, personally, didn't think about it or do it.  My middle son both came up with the idea and did it himself because he wanted to see what he could make work.

 

I don't think I would ever do more than potentially give the student the idea since sharing ideas isn't a bad thing.

 

Doing it for him, to me, would be micromanaging a bit too much for his age.

 

I also think he did it sophomore year when he truly had an idea of the direction he wanted to go.

 

[Teachin'Mine]

I, personally, didn't think about it or do it.  My middle son both came up with the idea and did it himself because he wanted to see what he could make work.

 

I don't think I would ever do more than potentially give the student the idea since sharing ideas isn't a bad thing.

 

Doing it for him, to me, would be micromanaging a bit too much for his age.

 

I also think he did it sophomore year when he truly had an idea of the direction he wanted to go.

 

 

Planning is the part of homeschooling I enjoyed the most (aside from spending time with my dd), so I like to do it.  Doing this is fun for me and has little to do with her.  She did her own four year plan as some scheduling was difficult last year.  She'll also need to do the four year plan this year to go over with her advisor.  None of what I do was done for dd, it's just fun for me. lol  Dd has been on the same path for the past four years, but I know that can change at any time.  

 

Still would love ideas regarding the excel, or any spreadsheet for that matter, charting of the four years.

[8filltheheart]

Ds's school uses Degree Works. They can plug in multiple majors and minors and it automatically inserts completed credits and lets them see what they need to complete for the entered scenario.

[Teachin'Mine]

Degree Works sounds like a great program, but not yet available at dd's school to the best of my knowledge.  I have no idea if she has something available online or not, but it sounds like this is very new technology.  It's not so much about knowing what's done and what's left, it's being able to schedule it into the semesters and then when changes are made, as they always are, knowing what requirements would need to be met elsewhere.  Hard to explain as it's easy enough to look at major requirements, but there are other requirements as well.  Very cool technology though which will hopefully help avoid last minute problems for students hoping to graduate in four years.  Dd has great advising at school and so far they do it the old fashioned way.  She has so many incredible options for how to complete the requirements and follow her interests, and only three years left to do it.    

[8filltheheart]

it is pretty easy to tell if a university uses Degree Works (many of them do.)  Just type in the school name and degree works in google.  (I just randomly picked Rice and they use it.

https://registrar.rice.edu/students/degreeworks/

[Teachin'Mine]

it is pretty easy to tell if a university uses Degree Works (many of them do.)  Just type in the school name and degree works in google.  (I just randomly picked Rice and they use it.

https://registrar.rice.edu/students/degreeworks/

 

Yes, that's exactly what I did.  They don't.  

[Tree Frog]

I thoroughly agree that her plans now should be a non-issue.  Support her and encourage her to meet with her advisor to see if all is possible and let her begin college looking forward to her studies enthusiastically.   She'll be able to form her plan much better with having completed courses and plans are often changing.

 

I have worked out on paper how dd can fit things into four years for what she wants to do, and she has done the same on her computer, but the idea of putting it on Excel sounds great.  May I ask those who have done this how they or you organized the spread sheet?   Do you put types of classes needed at the top of the columns and then fill in the specific courses for each semester under that?   How do you indicate what pre-reqs are needed, especially if they're in a different subject area? I don't need a visual of the actual plans you have, but just an explanation would be great.   I suppose it could also be organized with each of the semesters in a separate column.  What did you, or your student, find that worked best.  For all I know, dd may already have done this, but I'd like to set one up for myself.  

 

DH set it up with each semester year (i.e., Freshman fall, Freshman spring, Freshman Summer) in the rows and made the columns her classes. He used colors to indicate required classes and put pre-req's in smaller font under the class. For example, he wrote Cell Bio, course #201, and underneath wrote Bio 101.  The courses she earned in high school he wrote in a separate column and didn't incorporate into the spreadsheet. He checked and double checked to ensure he had all the classes.

 

I, personally, didn't think about it or do it.  My middle son both came up with the idea and did it himself because he wanted to see what he could make work.

 

I don't think I would ever do more than potentially give the student the idea since sharing ideas isn't a bad thing.

 

Doing it for him, to me, would be micromanaging a bit too much for his age.

 

I also think he did it sophomore year when he truly had an idea of the direction he wanted to go.

 

 

I agree with you and have told dh he needs to let dd do it herself, but it's very difficult for him to let go of it. She is only a sophomore, so there's hope. :) He also loves to do that kind of thing, so it's almost second nature for him to do it. Our budget is also set up on Excel. 

[Teachin'Mine]

DH set it up with each semester year (i.e., Freshman fall, Freshman spring, Freshman Summer) in the rows and made the columns her classes. He used colors to indicate required classes and put pre-req's in smaller font under the class. For example, he wrote Cell Bio, course #201, and underneath wrote Bio 101.  The courses she earned in high school he wrote in a separate column and didn't incorporate into the spreadsheet. He checked and double checked to ensure he had all the classes.

 

 

I agree with you and have told dh he needs to let dd do it herself, but it's very difficult for him to let go of it. She is only a sophomore, so there's hope. :) He also loves to do that kind of thing, so it's almost second nature for him to do it. Our budget is also set up on Excel. 

 

Thank you for sharing his system and I like the idea of different fonts and use of color. Putting the classes in the columns gives more room to put pre-reqs and other comments underneath.  This sounds good!

 

It's second nature for me to do it too after years of DE. Dd and I both worked up plans when she was in CC too. It's fun and it helps to see the overall plan so you can see where there's room for change or extras. Dd has been doing her own scheduling of classes for years, but that doesn't stop me from doing it too.  Maybe your husband can ask your daughter to put her own plan together and then they can compare.

[creekland]

I agree with you and have told dh he needs to let dd do it herself, but it's very difficult for him to let go of it. She is only a sophomore, so there's hope. :) He also loves to do that kind of thing, so it's almost second nature for him to do it. Our budget is also set up on Excel. 

 

I think it's far more natural for us because our parents let us do college on our own and both hubby and I are natural leader "types."  Therefore, it's both what we know via experience and fits our nature.  I really enjoyed picking my own major (and changing it twice, though once was before I started) and picking out all of my own classes, times, and professors.  Sharing what I decided with my parents was fun, but if they'd done it for me the feeling would have been totally different to say the least.

 

Our kids have inherited the natural leadership tendencies, so our giving very basic guidelines before they started college and helping them get their very first classes selected (sort of) has been plenty.  If we'd tried to micromanage more, they'd most likely be quite resentful.  There are other "types" of students who prefer having more assistance (or need it).

 

As always, it helps to know who you're dealing with.  Something is only right or wrong when it's not the right fit for the student IMO.

[Tree Frog]

Thank you for sharing his system and I like the idea of different fonts and use of color. Putting the classes in the columns gives more room to put pre-reqs and other comments underneath.  This sounds good!

 

It's second nature for me to do it too after years of DE. Dd and I both worked up plans when she was in CC too. It's fun and it helps to see the overall plan so you can see where there's room for change or extras. Dd has been doing her own scheduling of classes for years, but that doesn't stop me from doing it too.  Maybe your husband can ask your daughter to put her own plan together and then they can compare.

 

That's a good idea, one I've also suggested. The problem comes in when she doesn't do it on his timeline and he keeps asking if she's done it. He knows he needs to back off, but just as it's a process letting your first born head to college to do things on her own, it's also a process of the parents learning to let go.