s/o Is it appropriate to take a concealed weapon into someone else's home

[SKL]

I did a little research (it's a work day for me so I can't take a lot of time).  I didn't find super clear charts, but everything I saw indicates there has been a significant and ongoing decrease in gun deaths / gun accidents in the past several decades.  People are taking gun safety more seriously.  Of course more needs to be done, but the focus of that should probably be on issues other than CC.

[redsquirrel]

I would expect to be told. And everyone who knows me knows that they need to leave the weapon outside. Or, they are welcome to not come over, their choice. I'm fine with either. It is my home, my private property and I have the final say in the matter. I also don't let my kids go over to homes with guns, and yes, I do ask. Some people don't like their kids to be in homes with alcohol, well, for me it is weapons. So far, it hasn't been an issue, except with my step father. He assured me it was locked away in a proper gun safe and unloaded....until I found it behind the TV, all dusty because it had been there so long. So, now it is out of the house if we are coming over.

 

I worked with law enforcement for years and they routinely locked their weapons in their cars when they went in a school or a private residence if kids were present. I knew many who locked them in their car outside their own homes when off duty. My vigilance about weapons around children was learned from those cops.

 

It is just too dangerous to have guns in a home with kids. I know what 'responsible gun owners' say, and as far as I can tell, everyone is a responsible gun owner, until that one time they forget and a kid gets shot.

 

It just takes one mistake, one time of not paying attention and a life is over.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3143330/Jonathan-Kaufman-dies-Michigan-accidentally-shooting-head.html

 

Here is the 45th child this year under the age of 15 to be accidentally shot to death. He was three.

 

Once you set yourself a google alert, you will find that hardly a week goes by in this country without a preschooler getting shot.

[frogger]

I would expect that responsible people would not keep dangerous fluids, any inedible item, or medicine in a home with children.

 

I also would expect that responsible parents would never walk on a sidewalk by a road way or let them bike near a road since they can be killed.

 

I know "responsible"  parents that won't let their children have a trampoline because they are dangerous. 

 

I see so many irresponsible people putting lives in danger everyday on the road way that I'm surprised the human race exists.

 

I want my children to know how to take care of themselves and the irresponsible and helpless people around them.

[ssavings]

I don't have a problem with CC. I actually don't have a problem with open carry, either.

I grew up around guns - my grandfather was a cop. 

Many of my friends CC and have guns in their house, around kids. That's fine with me. That's their comfort level.

But I'm personally uncomfortable with my kids around guns. I don't feel that they have the exposure level to guns to fully respect them and be safe anywhere around them. 

So, my friends that CC lock their guns in their trunks before coming over to my house. My friends who keep unlocked guns in their homes lock them before we come over. 

IMHO, it's just mutual respect.

[Kerileanne99]

All I know, SKL, is that you're not invited to my house any time in the near future.

 

All the rest of you, if I can trust you to stop at the door and check to see if we wear shoes inside the house, I suppose I can trust you to check if I'm okay with weapons.

Hubby says we need a kitschy sign that says welcome to Out Home! Please Leave Your Shoes and Guns at the Door

[Word Nerd]

Hubby says we need a kitschy sign that says welcome to Out Home! Please Leave Your Shoes and Guns at the Door

 

Because leaving them at the door would be so much safer than keeping them secured upon one's person. ;)

[Mergath]

Shotguns don't shoot bullets.

 

It might be an age difference. By the time I was a teen, shooting off a gun was a no-no.

 

I am surprised to hear how many people are offended by a noise one time per year on New Year's Eve. Even if it's loud music or something - it's once a year. It's NYD. I guess my hometown is more laid back than many.

I replied to someone else's post when I commented and I couldn't remember what kind of weapon you said it was. Stupid, regardless.

[Kerileanne99]

Because leaving them at the door would be so much safer than keeping them secured upon one's person. ;)

Well, obviously they would need to be secured, lol. But at least I would KNOW they were in my home. I live in Texas, but It never occurred to me that I might need a gun safe in my house although we are not gun owners:)

After reading this thread I mentioned it to an acquaintance whose daughter has played at our house multiple times-she just laughed and said she always has one in her purse at my house! Thought it amusing that it was a big deal to me that all the times she sat at my house it was never mentioned:(

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I replied to someone else's post when I commented and I couldn't remember what kind of weapon you said it was. Stupid, regardless.

 

Except shotguns can fire slugs, which while they are not technically called bullets, they are effectively the same thing.  In addition, yes, shotgun shells fired in the air can cause harm, although less so than a bullet or slug.

[TranquilMind]

Then I guess you'd want to put up a sign if you lived in places where CC is not a big deal.

 

I don't want cigarettes in my house, but I don't feel like I have any say over who has them in their pocket.  I guess I just feel like it's none of my business what is legally concealed on someone's person, whether they are in my house or not.

 

If they pulled it out, the conversation might be different.  But I'm talking about a weapon that's concealed throughout the visit, which I think would be the norm, unless you were getting together to socialize about guns.

This!  Just don't whip out those cigarettes and we are cool.  If you do, you are leaving because I like breathing. 

[Mergath]

I would expect that responsible people would not keep dangerous fluids, any inedible item, or medicine in a home with children.

 

I also would expect that responsible parents would never walk on a sidewalk by a road way or let them bike near a road since they can be killed.

 

I know "responsible" parents that won't let their children have a trampoline because they are dangerous.

 

I see so many irresponsible people putting lives in danger everyday on the road way that I'm surprised the human race exists.

 

I want my children to know how to take care of themselves and the irresponsible and helpless people around them.

Unlike all those things, guns kill when used as directed. A gun is a weapon designed to end a life.

[redsquirrel]

Well, obviously they would need to be secured, lol. But at least I would KNOW they were in my home. I live in Texas, but It never occurred to me that I might need a gun safe in my house although we are not gun owners:)

After reading this thread I mentioned it to an acquaintance whose daughter has played at our house multiple times-she just laughed and said she always has one in her purse at my house! Thought it amusing that it was a big deal to me that all the times she sat at my house it was never mentioned:(

 

How is that secure?  When responsible gun owners tell me that their weapon is always secure... Is that what is meant by secure, in some purse on the floor or hanging on a hook by the door? Because if it is, I don't think that word means what you think it means...

 

I've just read too many stories of guns being grabbed by mistake in someone's purse and killing someone etc to consider that as secure.

 

To me, secure means it never going to hurt someone unless the owner intends for that to happen.

[Kerileanne99]

How is that secure? When responsible gun owners tell me that their weapon is always secure... Is that what is meant by secure, in some purse on the floor or hanging on a hook by the door? Because if it is, I don't think that word means what you think it means...

 

I've just read too many stories of guns being grabbed by mistake in someone's purse and killing someone etc to consider that as secure.

 

To me, secure means it never going to hurt someone unless the owner intends for that to happen.

No, I absolutely am agreeing! I am furious that she thought it was amusing, and that she thinks this is okay...and I am sad because my dd5 has probably lost a playmate. I think ladies that carry guns around in their purses are deluded at best.Sorry.

[poppy]

How is that secure?  When responsible gun owners tell me that their weapon is always secure... Is that what is meant by secure, in some purse on the floor or hanging on a hook by the door? Because if it is, I don't think that word means what you think it means...

 

I've just read too many stories of guns being grabbed by mistake in someone's purse and killing someone etc to consider that as secure.

 

To me, secure means it never going to hurt someone unless the owner intends for that to happen.

 

That's the thing. We hear over and over again that "the vast majority of gun owners are responsible" , but realistically, that means that those people think they are responsible. Just like every driver thinks she's a good driver, but if you drive on the highway you see people do dumb or careless things every. single. day.   Was it here on WTM, the anecdote about kids finding a firearm in the bathroom at a church?  I'd bet that person thinks of herself as a responsible gun owner who made a mistake.  Everyone makes mistakes.  Which is why the absolute irrefutable #1 cause of gun accidents is being in the presence of a gun. 

[Guest]

Intentional shootings and gang related violence outstrip accidental discharges by several orders of magnitude, you realize.

 

Car accidents and drownings kill hundred more children. Do we ban pools and cars? No. Vigilance is needed around those, as with firearms. Firearms can be enjoyable for kids in the right conditions - my girls love shooting and are looking forward to hunting with daddy. But unattended firearms and ignorant kids are a recipe for disaster. Fortunately this is preventable, and there are more common and immediate dangers for which we should be concerned.

[SailorMom]

Easy fix: post the sign.  No awkward conversations needed.  No emotion, no fear, no politics or opinions needed.

 

I don't personally think purse carry should be legal for CC...  It is not actually secured, even with a lock, can be accessed too easily by the wrong person, stolen at a store, left on a floor somewhere.... etc.  I think CC should be on the body carry only. 

 

As for informing someone... well... let's use someone like me as an example.  I'm petite and non-athletic.  If I carried, I'd make sure no one ever knew about it (unless I knew them VERY well).  Here's the reason:  I'd make an easy target to ambush.  I would make myself MORE likely to be attacked because someone could erroneously think that they could grab the gun and run before I could do anything.  Now, telling most people isn't an issue, but what about who they tell?  Who those people tell?  "Oh - did you know _______  carries?" in a conversation about crime, or guns, or whatever.  Not good.  They are concealed for a reason.

 

Why bring it to someone's home?  Well - you travel there, you travel back, you stop other places on the way (gas station, store, etc.) and some of us live in towns where NOWHERE is actually safe from crime.   It isn't about the home it is carried into - it's that the gun is more safe and secured on a person's body than it is left in a car.  Even in a lock box... the whole car can get stolen, and those things are not hard to break in to.  CC is habitual for the carrier.  Otherwise, they forget and could regret it. 

 

Someone was joking about a dangerous Target store...  Where I live two women in about 3 months were attacked in the Wal-Mart parking lot.  It's the only big store in town.  Where else should they have shopped? 

[Murphy101]

No, I absolutely am agreeing! I am furious that she thought it was amusing, and that she thinks this is okay...and I am sad because my dd5 has probably lost a playmate. I think ladies that carry guns around in their purses are deluded at best.Sorry.

Before I make too quick of a judgement...

 

Thinking back, has she always kept her purse directly on her person when visiting?

 

If so, I *might* not be ticked.

 

If not though? I'd be livid. I can overlook bringing a secured item in my that is kept in constant possession of the one responsible for it.

 

I don't have much patience for someone bringing a weapon into my home and just leaving it in the floor next to my sofa while they go potty or have a cup of coffee with me in the kitchen.

 

I would tell her my serious problem with this in rather blunt terms and she wouldn't be laughing about it when I was done. And might have learned a few new cuss words too.

[Murphy101]

Easy fix: post the sign. No awkward conversations needed. No emotion, no fear, no politics or opinions needed.

 

I don't personally think purse carry should be legal for CC... It is not actually secured, even with a lock, can be accessed too easily by the wrong person, stolen at a store, left on a floor somewhere.... etc. I think CC should be on the body carry only.

 

As for informing someone... well... let's use someone like me as an example. I'm petite and non-athletic. If I carried, I'd make sure no one ever knew about it (unless I knew them VERY well). Here's the reason: I'd make an easy target to ambush. I would make myself MORE likely to be attacked because someone could erroneously think that they could grab the gun and run before I could do anything. Now, telling most people isn't an issue, but what about who they tell? Who those people tell? "Oh - did you know _______ carries?" in a conversation about crime, or guns, or whatever. Not good. They are concealed for a reason.

 

Why bring it to someone's home? Well - you travel there, you travel back, you stop other places on the way (gas station, store, etc.) and some of us live in towns where NOWHERE is actually safe from crime. It isn't about the home it is carried into - it's that the gun is more safe and secured on a person's body than it is left in a car. Even in a lock box... the whole car can get stolen, and those things are not hard to break in to. CC is habitual for the carrier. Otherwise, they forget and could regret it.

 

Someone was joking about a dangerous Target store... Where I live two women in about 3 months were attacked in the Wal-Mart parking lot. It's the only big store in town. Where else should they have shopped?

Concealed carry purses are legal because truth be told, the zipper cases for handguns aren't much more than a well padded glorified purse. And again it's concealed and carry. It extends to more than their physical body. It extends to their vehicle for example? Or those briefcase gun containers. Iow. The concealed aspect does NOT mean they literally have to have it strapped to their person.

 

I personally hate those gun purses bc I agree women in general are too cavalier with their purses. You'd think since it carries everything required to steal their identify, stalk them for life, and ruin their finances, they'd be more vigilant regardless of it also containing a gun. But alas, they often are not. Also, I think purses are too often a target for criminals. For example if I were CC, and if I were to get mugged on my way to the van after Christmas shopping, I would not want him to get the added bonus of a gun.

[frogger]

Unlike all those things, guns kill when used as directed. A gun is a weapon designed to end a life.

 

True.

 

And it saves lives also and it feeds my family. Food and protection are part of staying alive.

If you believe that guns serve no purpose then I hope you argue that no police officer, soldier, or security guard or wild life officer should ever have one.

 

Being irresponsible is a huge danger to society whereas being responsible with any dangerous tool is not. I wish I knew how to make everyone responsible but I'm not sure you can legislate that.  I can only train my own children to be responsible and how to handle the others to the best of their ability.

 

 

[poppy]

Intentional shootings and gang related violence outstrip accidental discharges by several orders of magnitude, you realize.

 

Car accidents and drownings kill hundred more children. Do we ban pools and cars? No. Vigilance is needed around those, as with firearms. Firearms can be enjoyable for kids in the right conditions - my girls love shooting and are looking forward to hunting with daddy. But unattended firearms and ignorant kids are a recipe for disaster. Fortunately this is preventable, and there are more common and immediate dangers for which we should be concerned.

Bad comparison, there is an enormous amount of legislation designed to keep kids safe in cars and around pools..... Guns, not so much, and people ( such as people right here) are making vehement arguments for being able to bring their gun around kids, secretly, without parents knowledge. Because most gun owners are responsible - the "just trust me!" argument.

[frogger]

I would expect to be told. And everyone who knows me knows that they need to leave the weapon outside. Or, they are welcome to not come over, their choice. I'm fine with either. It is my home, my private property and I have the final say in the matter. I also don't let my kids go over to homes with guns, and yes, I do ask. Some people don't like their kids to be in homes with alcohol, well, for me it is weapons. So far, it hasn't been an issue, except with my step father. He assured me it was locked away in a proper gun safe and unloaded....until I found it behind the TV, all dusty because it had been there so long. So, now it is out of the house if we are coming over.

 

I worked with law enforcement for years and they routinely locked their weapons in their cars when they went in a school or a private residence if kids were present. I knew many who locked them in their car outside their own homes when off duty. My vigilance about weapons around children was learned from those cops.

 

It is just too dangerous to have guns in a home with kids. I know what 'responsible gun owners' say, and as far as I can tell, everyone is a responsible gun owner, until that one time they forget and a kid gets shot.

 

It just takes one mistake, one time of not paying attention and a life is over.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3143330/Jonathan-Kaufman-dies-Michigan-accidentally-shooting-head.html

 

Here is the 45th child this year under the age of 15 to be accidentally shot to death. He was three.

 

Once you set yourself a google alert, you will find that hardly a week goes by in this country without a preschooler getting shot.

 

 

 

I know people who read about police abuses. They will tell me about police abuses that happen daily and yes they are real. If you look for something in a country with 350 million people you will find it. There are also people who recount stories constantly about how guns saved this person or that person. Same thing, if you look for it you will find it constantly. We have access to information about so many people's lives.

 

But I digress.

 

Yes, private property should be completely at the discretion of the property owner and that should be respected by their visitors.

[Jenny in Florida]

Your reaction to mass shootings is to be terrified of guns.

 

In my case, it has nothing to do with "terror." It's a moral/ethical objection and a sense of disgust. And, again speaking only for myself, it's not the guns, themselves, that bother me, but the attitudes and behavior of many of the folks who carry them.

 

I don't scare easily, actually. For example, many of the reasons that people have cited here for being justifications to carry a weapon are things I do routinely without feeling the need to arm myself against fellow human beings.

 

I used to live near and work in NYC and walked the streets by myself regularly with reasonable caution but not fear. (The only "incident" I ever experienced in the city had nothing to do with guns, but I did find it funny. I was eating lunch in a deli in midtown and had set my purse on the floor next to my chair. I was reading a book and reached down into my purse for a bookmark only to feel another hand quietly reaching into my purse, too. I turned around, looked at the owner of the hand and said, "Excuse me!" in a fairly sharp tone. He apologized and immediately left the restaurant.)

 

For four years, I made 10-ish road trips from Florida to Virginia and back each year mostly on my own, stopping in strange places at night and doing whatever I needed to do. Again, I tried to be aware of my surroundings and not behave stupidly, but I can't remember ever feeling fear.

 

I could go on, but those are the ones that jumped out at me at the moment.

 

I would actually venture a guess that many people are attracted to weapons and feel a need to keep them on their persons because they are more afraid of the world than I am.

[SailorMom]

Concealed carry purses are legal because truth be told, the zipper cases for handguns aren't much more than a well padded glorified purse. And again it's concealed and carry. It extends to more than their physical body. It extends to their vehicle for example? Or those briefcase gun containers. Iow. The concealed aspect does NOT mean they literally have to have it strapped to their person.

 

I personally hate those gun purses bc I agree women in general are too cavalier with their purses. You'd think since it carries everything required to steal their identify, stalk them for life, and ruin their finances, they'd be more vigilant regardless of it also containing a gun. But alas, they often are not. Also, I think purses are too often a target for criminals. For example if I were CC, and if I were to get mugged on my way to the van after Christmas shopping, I would not want him to get the added bonus of a gun.

Oh - I get why they can use a purse, I just really don't think they are a good idea. 

[wendyroo]

Intentional shootings and gang related violence outstrip accidental discharges by several orders of magnitude, you realize.

 

Car accidents and drownings kill hundred more children. Do we ban pools and cars? No. Vigilance is needed around those, as with firearms. Firearms can be enjoyable for kids in the right conditions - my girls love shooting and are looking forward to hunting with daddy. But unattended firearms and ignorant kids are a recipe for disaster. Fortunately this is preventable, and there are more common and immediate dangers for which we should be concerned.

 

I agree completely.  The problem occurs when I don't know that I have to be vigilant about my kids being near a gun because it was not disclosed to me that there was a gun being brought into my home.  

 

I don't trust many people to take my kids in cars or pools, and I would not trust many people to carry a gun in my home around my kids.  Some people?  Sure.  Including LEOs and other adults that I knew very well and implicitly trusted.  That does not, however, mean that I should be forced, within the sanctuary of my home, to extend that same level of trust to every person that the state has given a concealed carry permit.  

 

Wendy

[SparklyUnicorn]

And part of that is bc people react differently.

 

Your reaction to mass shootings is to be terrified of guns.

 

Someone else's reactions is to be a responsible gun owner so they don't have to be scared of someone else with a gun.

 

And I do wonder if seeing more people with guns is a good thing. Some people here seem to have a visceral reaction to a gun just bc they aren't used to seeing one.

 

It rather reminds me of the breastfeeding discussions. Yes, it's your right to breastfeed anywhere, but geez, can't you cover up or go to the bathroom to do that or do it in the car before you go in a place and make everyone uncomfortable? Even if they don't see it actual breastfeeding, many people who are not used to it and unfamiliar with it sorta mentally freak out. But the response of breast feeders is often to not cave and hide for the sake of appearing polite. And it shouldn't be. Because people need to get used to people exercising their right to breastfeed anywhere they need or want to.

 

That aside the gun owners are scared all the time theme kinda made me laugh bc it reminded me of this clip from GCB.

 

 

I guess, but reacting to mass shootings by being terrified of guns hardly seems inappropriate to me.  It's harder to single handedly pull off a mass stabbing, for example.  So I feel less inclined to hate knives. 

 

I don't want to get cozy with guns and feel all warm and fuzzy and normal when I see them. I hate them.  Their only purpose (if not for sport or hunting) is for killing or injuring at best.  There is no other purpose.  What is there to love about that?  A lot of people can't appropriately handle a vehicle let alone a tool used specifically for killing.  So no I don't feel all that confident if I don't know the person at all who is toting around a gun for no reason I can fathom.  A guy with a gun in remote Alaska...I totally get that.  Someone coming to my house to hang out?  No.  I don't get that. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Canadian here.  This thread is just mind-boggling. 

 

There was a recent thread "What is American Culture".   This is.  Completely and utterly outside my experience.

 

One of the many reasons I'm pleased my husband has retained his Canadian citizenship is that I appreciate the comfort of knowing we could probably leave the U.S. quickly if I ever got the point that "American Culture" became too much for me.

[Jenny in Florida]

I guess, but reacting to mass shootings by being terrified of guns hardly seems inappropriate to me. 

 

 

I don't watch much TV, but someone posted on Facebook a clip of John Stewart's comments after the recent South Carolina shooting. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically shook his head and said, "One guy fails to take down an airplane with a shoe bomb and we make everyone take off their shoes at the airport for years. But more than 30,000 people are killed by guns in American each year and we shrug and say, 'Eh, what can you do?' "

[Guest]

I agree completely. The problem occurs when I don't know that I have to be vigilant about my kids being near a gun because it was not disclosed to me that there was a gun being brought into my home.

 

I don't trust many people to take my kids in cars or pools, and I would not trust many people to carry a gun in my home around my kids. Some people? Sure. Including LEOs and other adults that I knew very well and implicitly trusted. That does not, however, mean that I should be forced, within the sanctuary of my home, to extend that same level of trust to every person that the state has given a concealed carry permit.

 

Wendy

I didn't say you should? I'm fully in favor of the gun owner having to declare their firearm before entering any home other than their own residence. I don't really agree it should be up to the owner to ask or post a sign, but a positive action by the one choosing to carry. My thought is that, as a CCer, if I'm not comfortable enough going into a home to not carry or at least say something I shouldn't be going there at all.

 

In a public space is very different than someone's home. If my area didn't require declaration I'd do it anyway.

[Guest]

Bad comparison, there is an enormous amount of legislation designed to keep kids safe in cars and around pools..... Guns, not so much, and people ( such as people right here) are making vehement arguments for being able to bring their gun around kids, secretly, without parents knowledge. Because most gun owners are responsible - the "just trust me!" argument.

The limits of legislation are due to the second amendment. You're going to have to deal with the 'just trust me' argument beyond the normal checks in the system and state laws around ownership, open, and concealed carry.

 

And pools are legislated? Really? Not in any of the places I grew up. They didn't even require a fence around them, it just raised homeowners insurance rates to have one without a gate (which we all still do).

 

It's neither here nor there. I don't know why everyone is being contentious with me over this, since I'm an *actual* CCer and *actually* handle my firearm carefully, respect all local laws, and have never had any firearm in the home of ANYONE without their express blessing on it. If they even seem uncomfortable I leave it at home or stay outside.

 

I'm a gun owner, and I'm not unique in the respect and caution I exercise. I hope more and more owners will follow suit and act in the same manner. The CC and open carry folks I'm personally close with all hold the same opinion and care, and it seems unlikely that a dozen transplants to then ame area would anomalously be extra cautious with their sidearms. Either way, though, I would encourage everyone who is in favor of CC in theory or practice to be a good respresentative of their cause and act with honor and deference to others in their homes.

 

I'm actually kind of anal about this...

[Murphy101]

I don't watch much TV, but someone posted on Facebook a clip of John Stewart's comments after the recent South Carolina shooting. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically shook his head and said, "One guy fails to take down an airplane with a shoe bomb and we make everyone take off their shoes at the airport for years. But more than 30,000 people are killed by guns in American each year and we shrug and say, 'Eh, what can you do?' "

Well to be fair, I think everyone taking their shoes off was stupid and ineffective and so did many in agencies that know what is effective. But it made it look like they were responding to the "someone has to DO something!" to pacify the public.

 

They did do something. They stopped the guy, without taking his shoes off first no less.

 

To suggest ineffective over reaction in one area means we should enact ineffective policies in other areas doesn't seem a very solid argument to me.

[Jenny in Florida]

Well to be fair, I think everyone taking their shoes off was stupid and ineffective and so did many in agencies that know what is effective. But it made it look like they were responding to the "someone has to DO something!" to pacify the public.

 

They did do something. They stopped the guy, without taking his shoes off first no less.

 

To suggest ineffective over reaction in one area means we should enact ineffective policies in other areas doesn't seem a very solid argument to me.

 

As I recall the story, the reason he was caught was that he couldn't get the fuse lit and other passengers ratted him out. Several folks, including a couple of flight attendants, subdued him.

 

As an aside: Please point to any post in which I have advocated enacting ineffective policies?

 

But that really isn't the point. The point was that we clearly have a serious issue in the U.S. with our attitudes about the importance of guns and an individual's right to carry one. We, as a society, just plain have no sense about this. We stand by and shrug and spout rhetoric about "personal protection" (despite the fact that statistics don't actually back up that claim) and "personal rights" while people die. 

 

That's just messed up.

[Jenny in Florida]

It's neither here nor there. I don't know why everyone is being contentious with me over this, since I'm an *actual* CCer and *actually* handle my firearm carefully, respect all local laws . . .

 

I think many of us are "contentious" because we are aware that most people who own guns self-identify as doing all of the things you claim. Yet an unacceptably high percentage of those guns still end up killing 30,000 people a year in this country. Clearly, not everyone who thinks or says he or she is "responsible" really is.

[Word Nerd]

I've heard a lot of rhetoric spouted in this thread about the great likelihood of accidental gun deaths, and the statistics don't back up that claim either.

[poppy]

I think many of us are "contentious" because we are aware that most people who own guns self-identify as doing all of the things you claim. Yet an unacceptably high percentage of those guns still end up killing 30,000 people a year in this country. Clearly, not everyone who thinks or says he or she is "responsible" really is.

 

To be fair, most gun deaths are suicides.  But there are a couple of hundred dead kids annually, due to accidental shootings.  And of course thousands upon thousands of accidental injuries. 

 

It seems to me that gun owners find the dead kids and occasional mass shooting an acceptable risk.  I don't.

[K&Rs Mom]

It seems to me that gun owners find the dead kids and occasional mass shooting an acceptable risk.  I don't.

 

I don't see how someone's holstered gun worn in your (general you) kitchen, that you never know is there, has anything to do with dead kids or mass shootings.  Just like my minivan has nothing to do with the drunk driver who hit my aunt, causing lifelong disabilities.  What exactly is the "risk" that you say some find acceptable?

 

Everyone here has said that they would keep it out of your house if you (still general you) asked, but some have said they wouldn't bring up the subject first, which was how I took the original question.  

[Joker]

I'm fine with LEO's having a weapon in my home. I'm not fine with anyone else. I grew up with guns. We didn't even keep them locked up but there was never a single incident. Concealed carry wasn't something people were into back then, though. We knew who had guns and where they were. Now, it seems like everyone wants to. I don't trust or understand those who feel a need to carry concealed all the time if not in law enforcement. Honestly, I see them as paranoid.

[Guest]

I think many of us are "contentious" because we are aware that most people who own guns self-identify as doing all of the things you claim. Yet an unacceptably high percentage of those guns still end up killing 30,000 people a year in this country. Clearly, not everyone who thinks or says he or she is "responsible" really is.

 

Injury by firearm in children 1-24 years of age is under 7,000, and that includes both intentional and accidental shootings.

 

The number you're citing includes suicides by firearm, which is a different issue than accidental discharge by a minor. You can argue about that rate but it outside this discussion.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

[Guest]

To be fair, most gun deaths are suicides. But there are a couple of hundred dead kids annually, due to accidental shootings. And of course thousands upon thousands of accidental injuries.

 

It seems to me that gun owners find the dead kids and occasional mass shooting an acceptable risk. I don't.

I posted the latest rate table. Most gun owners absolutely find this troubling which is why we are big on safety, safe handling, safe storage, and responsible use. But the ones following the law are never the ones the laws are aimed at handling, and that goes for drugs, vehicles, murder, property rights, fraud, you name it. Adding more laws restricts those who would follow them, not those already ignoring them.

 

At some point, you cannot continue trying to bind people with civil and criminal code. It merely empowers those who would do harm even more. Stiffer penalties can work, but more laws rarely do.

 

Accusing us of not caring about children is silly and beneath respectful discussion. Everyone here cares, or we wouldn't be here at all by the very nature of this forum.

[poppy]

I don't see how someone's holstered gun worn in your (general you) kitchen, that you never know is there, has anything to do with dead kids or mass shootings.  Just like my minivan has nothing to do with the drunk driver who hit my aunt, causing lifelong disabilities.  What exactly is the "risk" that you say some find acceptable?

 

Everyone here has said that they would keep it out of your house if you (still general you) asked, but some have said they wouldn't bring up the subject first, which was how I took the original question.  

 

Fighting against sensible gun control and promoting a culture of guns as toys or everyday accessories is extremely relevant.  Every time I hear someone talk about how responsible most gun owners are, I think of Adam Lanza's mother.

[Guest]

As a gun owner I am for sensible, simple gun laws. I wouldn't argue to the contrary on that one. One person breaking the laws and harming others doesn't mean the rights of all are forfeit. Should we argue this with drug or vehicle crime? Millions of people get into speeding projectiles every day and break the law. Well over 120,000 people die each year due to it. Shall we ban that?

[Guest]

This all circles back around to education. You cannot assumed very gun owner is responsible, though on the whole they are a lower crime segment of the population than those who own no firearms, even when it comes to moving violations and child support payments.

 

In the end, every family has the right to feel safe in their home and I believe they should set the rules and have them respected. But the only sure fire way to prevent children being harmed with firearms is the teach the children to never, ever handle one without an adult. Ever. Guns aren't going away, legal and otherwise, and kids need to know exactly how to respond if they find a gun anywhere. Touching it even to move it isn't it. Telling an adult is.

 

I spend money every year on education for school children and firearms safety - we will keep doing that.

[wendyroo]

I don't see how someone's holstered gun worn in your (general you) kitchen, that you never know is there, has anything to do with dead kids or mass shootings. Just like my minivan has nothing to do with the drunk driver who hit my aunt, causing lifelong disabilities. What exactly is the "risk" that you say some find acceptable?

 

Everyone here has said that they would keep it out of your house if you (still general you) asked, but some have said they wouldn't bring up the subject first, which was how I took the original question.

And if a mom has a concealed gun in her unlocked and unattended purse at my house during a play date? Am I allowed to find that an unacceptable risk in my home?

 

My two premises...

1) Being licensed to carry a concealed weapon does not ensure a person does so responsibly. There are plenty of legally licensed reckless drivers and I guarantee there are some very irresponsible people legally carrying concealed weapons.

 

2) As a homeowner, I should get to make the final call about firearms in my home (excluding those carried by law enforcement). Even if my reasoning is that I'm morally opposed to violence and would not want a burglar shot by a gun-toting visitor, that should be my right in my home. Obviously, if a visitor felt the risk of being unarmed in my home is too high, then he or she is free to not visit.

 

Wendy

[Joker]

This all circles back around to education. You cannot assumed very gun owner is responsible, though on the whole they are a lower crime segment of the population than those who own no firearms, even when it comes to moving violations and child support payments.

 

In the end, every family has the right to feel safe in their home and I believe they should set the rules and have them respected. But the only sure fire way to prevent children being harmed with firearms is the teach the children to never, ever handle one without an adult. Ever. Guns aren't going away, legal and otherwise, and kids need to know exactly how to respond if they find a gun anywhere. Touching it even to move it isn't it. Telling an adult is.

 

I spend money every year on education for school children and firearms safety - we will keep doing that.

 

My children know these rules and always have. I cannot count on other children and adults who may be in my home to know them, though. So, I don't want anyone in my home carrying a concealed weapon unless they are law enforcement. I don't understand why anyone would feel a desire or need to carry one inside my home either.

 

[Chess Dad]

As a gun owner I am for sensible, simple gun laws. I wouldn't argue to the contrary on that one. One person breaking the laws and harming others doesn't mean the rights of all are forfeit. Should we argue this with drug or vehicle crime? Millions of people get into speeding projectiles every day and break the law. Well over 120,000 people die each year due to it. Shall we ban that?

:iagree:

 

http://americangunfacts.com/

 

There are positive gun facts as well.  The bottom line is simple.  If you want to own a weapon then the 2nd Amendment should continue to protect your right as an American.  If you don't want to own a weapon, great, your choice.  I respect that. 

 

And banning all guns is ridiculous.  How has the war on drugs gone?  I fight that fight every day and let me tell you, we are losing... 

[Mimm]

I don't watch much TV, but someone posted on Facebook a clip of John Stewart's comments after the recent South Carolina shooting. I'm paraphrasing, but he basically shook his head and said, "One guy fails to take down an airplane with a shoe bomb and we make everyone take off their shoes at the airport for years. But more than 30,000 people are killed by guns in American each year and we shrug and say, 'Eh, what can you do?' "

 

Pretty much this. It's like we're so immune to gun violence, we just act like fixing it is impossible. A bunch of kids are gunned down and people say, "Responsible gun owners, blah blah blah blah."

[Guest]

My children know these rules and always have. I cannot count on other children and adults who may be in my home to know them, though. So, I don't want anyone in my home carrying a concealed weapon unless they are law enforcement. I don't understand why anyone would feel a desire or need to carry one inside my home either.

 

I doubt people would need or want to carry in your home, either. The way it goes down around here is oftentimes we carry when we go to the lake, on a hike, or just as a normal habit when out and about. Though there are some parts of town it is genuinely a self defense impulse, the real reason I learned was wild animals (hence my taking hunter ed, not a tactical shooting class), and when I am out with friends and their kids the chances of us encountering wildlife of the less desirable kind can be very high - it depends on the time of year. If we head to someone's house afterward then one or both of us either need to keep carrying or lock our guns in our cars. Our person is more secure than our car, purse, or another object, so that's the preferred spot.

 

But I can conceivably see someone being okay with a gun while we are out (or even grateful for it - a lot of people like the protection of a trained shooter even if they don't want to carry, themselves, especially when out with food in bear country) and being uneasy about one coming in their home. In that case it would get locked up in the car. Not ideal, but certainly better than making a friend uncomfortable.

 

As a real person who actually carries and lives this out in more than the theoretical, online worst case scenario fantasy, I can honestly say it is unusual to get in this situation. More common is carrying and trying to go to the post office or a school, which prohibit firearms. Then you have to either go home and drop off your gun or park your vehicle with your locked firearm off the premises to be in compliance with the law. That gets tricky, so I know both my husband and I are in the habit of just planning ahead before those trips to not be carrying. Sometimes if an errand or package comes up quickly it can't be helped, but it takes truly little vigilance to manage these situations day to day in a safe manner.

[Jenny in Florida]

Injury by firearm in children 1-24 years of age is under 7,000, and that includes both intentional and accidental shootings.

 

The number you're citing includes suicides by firearm, which is a different issue than accidental discharge by a minor. You can argue about that rate but it outside this discussion.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Did I specify children?

[Jenny in Florida]

Fighting against sensible gun control and promoting a culture of guns as toys or everyday accessories is extremely relevant. Every time I hear someone talk about how responsible most gun owners are, I think of Adam Lanza's mother.

Bingo.

[Guest]

Did I specify children?

This discussion is relating to children getting ahold of an unsecured gun someone may or may not carry into their home or store there. Padding the statistics to include hunting accidents, personal intentional injury or death with a gun, domestic violence, drug related crime, and all the rest has very little to do with CC either by permit or state law and associated real risk to children.

 

Even including the range up to 24 years was generous but distilling out each age is more time consuming than this casual discussion warrants. There are some excellent papers out there on the subject, however.

[Guest]

Please, if someone has a polite, curious question for me as a CC-er with children feel free to ask. I'm happy to give some real life experience.