Reference points

[Rivka]

Last night was the annual awards ceremony for the large math program Alex has taken part in. It's mostly aimed at older kids - MathCOUNTS age and up - but they have some classes for G&T 5th-6th graders and, this year, there was a math club for 3rd-4th grade that Alex was in.

 

She got to pick up her Math Kangaroo national prize. She got a Commendation B certificate and patch for MOEMS and recognition from the coach for doing reasonably well on the AMC-8 for a fourth grader. I was pleased on her behalf.

 

Meanwhile, there was a 5th grader there who got a medal for a perfect score all year in MOEMS and a perfect score on the 7th grade Math Kangaroo, plus high honors on the AMC-8 and AMC-10, etc. etc. Another fifth grader in a similar position although not quite as  dramatic. Middle school kids who did well in the AIME. A high school girl who medaled in the Chemistry and Physics Olympiads and performed well on the Math Olympiad, who is on her way to MIT next year and received an impressive gold cup as a program "Award of Excellence."

 

On the one hand, Alex was inspired by the older girl and is committed to carrying on with math competitions. On the other hand, in the car on the way home, she said thoughtfully, "You know, Mom, I think I'm okay with just being mediocre in math." :001_rolleyes:

 

On the one hand, I'm thrilled that homeschooling means she can proceed at her own pace and not be weirded out by how different she is from other kids. I'm beyond thrilled that she'll have this program to challenge and inspire her as she gets older. But I'm a little flummoxed about how to respond to her self-assessment that she's "mediocre in math." She's not top-of-the-top, but i don't think she realizes how unusual it is for a ten-year-old to be doing algebra, or competing in the AMC-8 at all.

 

I talked to her a little bit about what normally constitutes "4th grade math," and also speculated about how much time and effort those two super-mathy 5th graders probably put into math every day, but I'm curious about how you all handle comparisons.

[Arcadia]

My boys are very close in age. I encourage them to compare only with themselves else I would have a big case of sibling rivalry and low self esteem.

If she has a self esteem issue from being "mediocre" in math, then tackle that issue. I am hopeless in Art but it doesn't impact my self esteem. My kids have areas they are mediocre at just because they aren't good at everything. It is a loaded word only if the person make it so.

Coming from a country and now an area with "super mathy" and science oriented kids, perfect scores doesn't mean having to spend more time. I probably win slacker public school kid of the year award hands down if there was one at the same time as I did win math and science awards.

[FairProspects]

We run into this in violin all the time. In reality ds is quite good for his age and has a ton of long term potential, but our studio has some true prodigies and so it appears that everyone his age is much better than he is because of his comparison point. I'm not sure I have great responses other than to point out that everyone started at a different age, practices a different amount, and has stops and starts in their progression, but I'll be following along for some other great advice.

[mathnerd]

 

On the one hand, I'm thrilled that homeschooling means she can proceed at her own pace and not be weirded out by how different she is from other kids. I'm beyond thrilled that she'll have this program to challenge and inspire her as she gets older. But I'm a little flummoxed about how to respond to her self-assessment that she's "mediocre in math." She's not top-of-the-top, but i don't think she realizes how unusual it is for a ten-year-old to be doing algebra, or competing in the AMC-8 at all.

 

Let her know that she is rather young for the levels of math she has accomplished (the other kids were older than her). If she gave it a couple more years, she can win perfect scores like the other kids that did.

 

Did you let her take any of the above grade level Talent Search tests? My child who thought that he was mediocre took 2 talent search tests and saw for himself what his scores were compared to kids in higher grades and then   came to the realization that he was not mediocre.

[Dmmetler]

It's tough-DD10 is often downright flummoxed when she gets an award-because she truly doesn't believe that what she does is good enough. In some ways, I wonder if I spent too much time when I was younger trying to point out the "everyone has strengths and weaknesses" and defuse the "OOH! You're reading, and you're only 3!! That's amazing!!" type comments. By pulling her out of standard academics, if she's competing with others at all, it tends to be on a much bigger, more competitive stage, where she often IS average based on the kids who participate-but the kids participating are often in a tiny fraction of a fraction of the kids overall.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rivka]

Coming from a country and now an area with "super mathy" and science oriented kids, perfect scores doesn't mean having to spend more time. I probably win slacker public school kid of the year award hands down if there was one at the same time as I did win math and science awards.

 

Well, true, although we know that to a substantial degree ability is malleable, and that expertise is predicted by intelligent practice. You're right that I can't know whether those boys really do put in more work at math than my daughter does, but I can be certain that if she chose to put in more effort and time than she does, her scores would be considerably higher than they are right now.

 

Right now I require that she put in about as much time on math as a "normal" 4th grader, which is 45-60 minutes per weekday. I wanted her to know that she has the potential to really excel as a mathlete if she puts more time into it. I'm not going to make her do it, but if her goal is to be getting perfect scores on the AMC-8, etc., an increased time commitment will probably be necessary.

[quark]

On the one hand, I'm thrilled that homeschooling means she can proceed at her own pace and not be weirded out by how different she is from other kids. I'm beyond thrilled that she'll have this program to challenge and inspire her as she gets older. But I'm a little flummoxed about how to respond to her self-assessment that she's "mediocre in math." She's not top-of-the-top, but i don't think she realizes how unusual it is for a ten-year-old to be doing algebra, or competing in the AMC-8 at all.

 

I talked to her a little bit about what normally constitutes "4th grade math," and also speculated about how much time and effort those two super-mathy 5th graders probably put into math every day, but I'm curious about how you all handle comparisons.

 

This is a very interesting topic to me. Depending on where he is standing at any one time (except for home where he is a case study of one), my son falls either on the below, middle or above average marks in different spectrums of achievement. In math circle (the one we are at focuses a lot on contests) he is closer to the below average, mediocre side with no contest achievements to his name, for example. But if anyone were to skew that focus towards deep thinking math that requires conversation and thought more than speed, he will come out above average. Among friends he is somewhere in the middle and in one or two areas he is above. This has worked out really well for him when it comes to referencing himself because he gets to see what it means to have prodigious talent and how that changes from place to place with different kids, and as I highlight to him from time to time, who your parents are (math profs? engineers? writers?), where you live and go to school (we live a ways away from the excellent schooling areas so our neighborhood is much "calmer" academics-wise), what is important to you yourself and how you choose to use your time, etc. It ends up with a pretty down-to-earth kid but also someone who gets enough of a thrill of being the above average kid so he is also not affected self esteem wise. It is a juggling act though and I think with the bolded, you did a very good thing and it might be good to bring these things up once in a while just to set her expectations straight.

 

If she has a self esteem issue from being "mediocre" in math, then tackle that issue. I am hopeless in Art but it doesn't impact my self esteem. My kids have areas they are mediocre at just because they aren't good at everything. It is a loaded word only if the person make it so.

 

The bolded is certainly true. Different personalities handle this differently though. Even when no one makes a big deal of it, self expectations and perfectionism can be debilitating in certain types of people. I believe strongly that supportive, down to earth parenting, something I didn't have as a kid in this area, can mitigate damage to the self esteem.

[Rivka]

It's tough-DD10 is often downright flummoxed when she gets an award-because she truly doesn't believe that what she does is good enough. In some ways, I wonder if I spent too much time when I was younger trying to point out the "everyone has strengths and weaknesses" and defuse the "OOH! You're reading, and you're only 3!! That's amazing!!" type comments. By pulling her out of standard academics, if she's competing with others at all, it tends to be on a much bigger, more competitive stage, where she often IS average based on the kids who participate-but the kids participating are often in a tiny fraction of a fraction of the kids overall.

 

Yes, exactly! And my standard is also warped, because I tend to think things like, "Well, she's pretty smart, but she's not like dmmetler's kid." :tongue_smilie:

 

Although no one ever used this term when I was younger, I was technically PG. (I didn't realize it until I found out that my GRE scores qualify me for the "Triple Nine" society.) I grew up in a small, relatively poor city where I was definitely the weird fish in the pond. From the earliest age that I can remember, I was hyper-aware of myself as smart enough to be really, really different. I now believe that was unhealthy and distorting to my self-image, so I've welcomed being able to put Alex in a class size of one. But maybe I've overdone it?

[Arcadia]

Right now I require that she put in about as much time on math as a "normal" 4th grader, which is 45-60 minutes per weekday. I wanted her to know that she has the potential to really excel as a mathlete if she puts more time into it. I'm not going to make her do it, but if her goal is to be getting perfect scores on the AMC-8, etc., an increased time commitment will probably be necessary.

 

I do agree that preparing for perfect scores in competitions require more time.  How much more depends on the child.  My older wants to try out the AMC-8 if we get a seat but he isn't aiming for any score. He just want to have the experience of taking the AMC-8.

 

 

Even when no one makes a big deal of it, self expectations and perfectionism can be debilitating in certain types of people. I believe strongly that supportive, down to earth parenting, something I didn't have as a kid in this area, can mitigate damage to the self esteem.

 

:iagree:

 

 I grew up in a small, relatively poor city where I was definitely the weird fish in the pond. From the earliest age that I can remember, I was hyper-aware of myself as smart enough to be really, really different.

 

 

I grew up in a very densely populated city going to big urban schools so totally different perspective :)  I also grew up where girls being very good in maths and sciences are common.  My hubby is used to having ladies win the top spot in math or science competitions :)  He grew up in another densely populated area in the same country as me.

[Rivka]

I do agree that preparing for perfect scores in competitions require more time.  How much more depends on the child.  My older wants to try out the AMC-8 if we get a seat but he isn't aiming for any score. He just want to have the experience of taking the AMC-8.

 

Alex really enjoyed the overall experience of taking the AMC-8, so I strongly recommend it if you can get a seat. (I didn't know it was hard to get seats some places - we just blithely signed up.)

 

We set a score goal because she's struggled a lot with perfectionism and I wanted to set a realistic bar. That was very effective at the time - she was proud to exceed her goal and score in the top half of the distribution of 8th graders. I think this award ceremony was the first time it occurred to her that there were kids quite close to her age who outclassed her by that much.

 

Next year, in 5th grade, she wants to achieve Merit Roll, which will mean a score of about 15/25. I think that's realistically within her grasp.

[lewelma]

Rivka, my ds between the age of 9 and 10 was *convinced* that he was bad at math.  Math was always so hard for him.  He got things wrong all the time.  I had purposely ramped up the math until it was hard, and started to rethink this choice.  But he would not switch off of AoPS and he would not let me teach him.  I was concerned that his self assessment was so low.  He was working at an unbelievably high level but no matter what I said, he would not believe me and he just figured I was trying to make him feel better.  I was really confused during those years as to whether it was good for him to believe he was mediocre in math.  But in hindsight he loved math so much that it did not seem to harm him.  He did not want to quit, and his self assessment drove him to work harder.  And eventually as he got around other kids, his skill level became more apparent to him.  And this is from a boy who in the same month this year medalled in one Olympiad and scored a 0 in another. 

 

So unless there is some defeatism, I would just leave it and focus on effort over any sort of comparison.  Don't argue or persuade.  Just leave it and focus on how fun math is.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Lilaclady]

As bad as it may sound, I think it is a good idea to have kids experience this situation while they are still young. Some kids never experience it and have a much harder time adjusting if college is the first place they are meeting other students who are so strong. I think that is why I like the idea of math circle and science/ FLL teams. You dd seems to be quite mature in her approach and will do well going forward. I have been amazed at some kids who seem to be doing so much so early but everyone has different paths to take and while I have been encouraged and inspired by it, I haven't really changed anything we are doing because of it.

[SeaConquest]

I don't know if this is helpful, but I'm sharing it in the hope that it might be. We have the opposite problem. Sacha is bordering on overconfident about his abilities. It's not just academic stuff, but even in soccer, I don't think he fully grasps how much better the other kids are. Granted, he plays in a very competitive soccer club, but it's almost like he is oblivious to how much harder he will need to work if he wants to catch up to the others. I don't know if I am just a ridiculous Tigermom who is constantly sizing up the competition, or if my kid is perfectly content to rest on his laurels. Perhaps, a bit of both.  

 

ETA: I am hoping that some of this is just being 6.

[tm919]

Yes, exactly! And my standard is also warped, because I tend to think things like, "Well, she's pretty smart, but she's not like dmmetler's kid." :tongue_smilie:

 

Although no one ever used this term when I was younger, I was technically PG. (I didn't realize it until I found out that my GRE scores qualify me for the "Triple Nine" society.) I grew up in a small, relatively poor city where I was definitely the weird fish in the pond. From the earliest age that I can remember, I was hyper-aware of myself as smart enough to be really, really different. I now believe that was unhealthy and distorting to my self-image, so I've welcomed being able to put Alex in a class size of one. But maybe I've overdone it?

This is so true! Everyone I meet tells me my older daughter has such a special mind, but she (5.5 year old) has said, "I'm not very smart" because she really doesn't know she is often working up to 4 years ahead in some areas (even at her part-time Montessori they provide her with work that is years ahead and will reprimand her if she isn't doing her best work, but they never use comparative terms because it's not part of their philosophy). Then I come to these forums and leave with the impression that "everyone" must be wrong about her being so far ahead, because I doubt she'll ever be like some of the kids here!  :p

 

She truly has the impression that she is average or below average, and that hard work is the only thing that will allow her to "keep up." Sometimes I feel badly for her, but I wonder if it isn't better to let her believe it.

[eternallytired]

I rarely post on here because my kids don't seem to measure up to what most of your kids are doing, and yet I still get embarrassed talking to my sister about what the kids are doing academically because my Ker and PKer are reading at 4th-5th grade level and finishing 2nd grade math while hers are in public school doing average work.  It's weird to feel like you don't fit in normal society but also don't fit here because your kids are merely accelerated and not PG.  Maybe that's just my self-consciousness coming through, though.

 

And I also have the problem of a 5yo who has arbitrarily decided that she is not good at math--I think because she's visual and her brother just intuits things and is moving a little faster than she--so she's suddenly struggling with it because she panics as soon as I mention math.  After getting the stink-eye when I accidentally mentioned her reading back when she was 3, I've been very careful not to mention to my kids that they are doing anything out of the ordinary so they won't feel odd (or puff themselves up, either), and I make an effort not to talk about their academics with others on my own, either.  (If I do, it's always apologetically!)  I don't know how to tell her, "Most kids in pre-k are just learning to recognize numbers in the teens and are mastering counting to 100--of COURSE you're good at math!" and have her believe me.

 

 

[Arcadia]

I think children and adults eventually find their own reference points and figure out where they fit in the grand scheme of things. Some of the engineers I have worked with are brilliant but that doesn't make everyone else on the team not smart.

While my parents are as supportive as they know how to, it was my "eccentric" cousins who supply that safe harbour to fail. Reminds me of Tommy Page's song "A shoulder to cry on" (I'm the youngest granddaughter on both sides)
 

ETA: I am hoping that some of this is just being 6.

That :lol:
My younger had that overconfident phase for doing non-academic things. I had a mini first aid kit in every bag.

I think it is nice that little kids think they are great. Like the babies learning to walk. They have this proud espression on their face which to me is really adorable. (My kids' German school has a mommy and me class)

[Lawyer&Mom]

What about a grade level standardized test? 99th percentile won't reveal much about her abilities, but it should reassure her that she's very good at math.

[quark]

I think children and adults eventually find their own reference points and figure out where they fit in the grand scheme of things. Some of the engineers I have worked with are brilliant but that doesn't make everyone else on the team not smart.

 

[...] I had a mini first aid kit in every bag.

 

I think it is nice that little kids think they are great. Like the babies learning to walk. They have this proud espression on their face which to me is really adorable. (My kids' German school has a mommy and me class)

 

And I have a first aid kit in each bag because mine is NOT confident! :laugh: Isn't it crazy?

 

I agree about it being nice for kids to think they are great. And I like that baby walking analogy. It's so true. All of us start with that confidence and wish to take a risk but it gets beaten out of us or we tell ourselves to stop as we age and while that might make socially acceptable behavior in some cases, it is also sad to think what we have stopped ourselves from doing because we think we are not good enough.

 

I like looking for inspiring quotes and biographies because they remind me over and over again that there is more to each one of us than we think. We are all stories in our own way and it's nice to think of each story still being "written" and that we are the authors and have the power to change outcomes. With supportive parents, with more and more exposure to different people and by challenging ourselves, we can adjust reference points and have more options about how to "write" our stories.

[lewelma]

I rarely post on here because my kids don't seem to measure up to what most of your kids are doing, and yet I still get embarrassed talking to my sister about what the kids are doing academically because my Ker and PKer are reading at 4th-5th grade level and finishing 2nd grade math while hers are in public school doing average work.  It's weird to feel like you don't fit in normal society but also don't fit here because your kids are merely accelerated and not PG.  Maybe that's just my self-consciousness coming through, though.

 

Please post.  This is the most supportive group that I have ever found.  We all realise that every kid is an individual and I don't think you will see any comparing here.  The only posters who have gotten poor reception on this sub-board are the ones who claim to have the one answer that will solve all problems for all gifted kids. The other thing I notice is that it is not the PG kids who stand out on this board, but rather the kids who have found their passion because what they accomplish is so amazing because their whole heart is behind the effort. But very few kids find their passion at a young age.  So post, ask for help, allow us to celebrate with you.  Your kids are special in their own right and don't have to match up to anyone here.

 

Also, given that you have not been around for very long, you will not have watched some of these kids grow up and grow into their passions.  It is so cool that some posters haved shared their journey for a number of years, so we 'knew' their kids before they became amazing. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ 

 

 

[texasmama]

I think many kids are overconfident at the 4-6 age range.  I really love them for this.  Life takes it out of 99.9% of people with simple maturity and no parental intervention.  

 

My accelerated kid (probably not PG but who knows) is also very self-critical and anxious about his academic performance.  He is 12 and completed a science class for 8th graders last year at co op.  He received the highest grade in his class of 10 on the final.  He is the youngest student.  It was a perfect score, plus he earned all the possible extra credit points.  Then, and only then, was he pleased.  I think maturity will modulate this for him.  He is unwilling to do any math competitions because he does not think he is good enough.  (He is self-teaching AoPS Intro to Algebra - I think he's likely good enough.) 

 

I really believe that time and life experience will "fix" most of these issues and leave him with only the typical neuroses that we all have as adults.  :D

[Jackie]

I rarely post on here because my kids don't seem to measure up to what most of your kids are doing, and yet I still get embarrassed talking to my sister about what the kids are doing academically because my Ker and PKer are reading at 4th-5th grade level and finishing 2nd grade math while hers are in public school doing average work. It's weird to feel like you don't fit in normal society but also don't fit here because your kids are merely accelerated and not PG. Maybe that's just my self-consciousness coming through, though.

If it makes you feel any better, I post here with a kid working at roughly similar levels to yours. I still have the first thread I started here bookmarked. It wasn't posted because I felt I "belonged" on this board, it was posted because I was absolutely freaking desperate and there was nowhere else where people wouldn't just roll their eyes at me. I have no belief that my child will be taking college classes at 8 years old or starting her own nonprofit at 10, but neither can I ask questions on regular boards that include questions like "damn, she's going to outpace the RightStart version 2 release schedule before her sixth birthday, what now?".

 

On another note, my child is bizarrely under-confident when it comes to math, but bizarrely overconfident when it comes to art and music. I would love to average it all out to a realistic view ;-)

[texasmama]

On another note, my child is bizarrely under-confident when it comes to math, but bizarrely overconfident when it comes to art and music. I would love to average it all out to a realistic view ;-)

I really cherish this about kids!  They are just who they are without the filter we have all grown which often does nothing to help us or anyone else.

 

When my college girl was four years old, she admired herself in the mirror and said, "I'm...awesome!".  She does not do that anymore and has not for a long time. 

[raptor_dad]

On the one hand, Alex was inspired by the older girl and is committed to carrying on with math competitions. On the other hand, in the car on the way home, she said thoughtfully, "You know, Mom, I think I'm okay with just being mediocre in math." :001_rolleyes:

 

 

Perhaps that is her way of saying that while continuing to be very mathy is great, she has other interests...or not?

 

Either way... check out these mathbabe links...

 

http://mathbabe.org/2011/07/17/math-contests-kind-of-suck/

 

http://mathbabe.org/2012/04/12/how-to-teach-someone-how-to-prove-something/

 

ETA: If you search around, she has a link about why HCSSim is the best thing ever ;)

[Pegs]

I think many kids are overconfident at the 4-6 age range. I really love them for this. Life takes it out of 99.9% of people with simple maturity and no parental intervention.

 

 

Yep! My 5.5yo has taken to proclaiming, "Ha! I'm a genius!" whenever things are going well for him. For example, when he wins a card game, purely by chance. ;)

 

I'm not going to rain on his parade. He knows that he has to work hard at his handwriting, just like his uncle had to at his age, and he understands that some things which come easily to him are much harder for his friends. I wouldn't have picked the G word for him, for confidence building, but he's obviously identified with something in it, despite a complete lack of conversation about it here at home. So, it's all good.

[Arcadia]

I was thinking more about the responses to this thread and it occur to me that my extended family just seems disinterested with praise regardless of who is praising. Which may be weird but I really don't know how uncommon that is. It is like we are so used to our abilities being part of a continuum.

 

Even when we (cousins, nephews & nieces) win something, right after the competition finish (sometimes before results are announced) we are already "busy" with something else. We do have workaholic tendencies.

 

My oldest said that the AoPS preface says that the book is for high schoolers. He asked why is he using a book for high schoolers and then promptly just did his work not really looking for a reply. I forgot which AoPS book it was.

 

My youngest used to treat my oldest as the reference point but now he has come into his own person.

 

I wouldn't have picked the G word for him, for confidence building, but he's obviously identified with something in it, despite a complete lack of conversation about it here at home. So, it's all good.

You reminded me that my nephews would identify themselves as superheroes like Superman or Spider-Man or Ultraman. My nieces never identified themselves as superheroes or princesses but they rule the roost. It is a fun phase and luckily no one so far needed to be in a cast :)

 

My older cousins pretended to be Bruce Lee.

 

ETA:

I love contests as a public school kid because I could legally skip school to represent the school in the competition. My principal would inform my class teachers that I would have to skip class again.

[SanDiegoMom]

I don't know if this is helpful, but I'm sharing it in the hope that it might be. We have the opposite problem. Sacha is bordering on overconfident about his abilities. It's not just academic stuff, but even in soccer, I don't think he fully grasps how much better the other kids are. Granted, he plays in a very competitive soccer club, but it's almost like he is oblivious to how much harder he will need to work if he wants to catch up to the others. I don't know if I am just a ridiculous Tigermom who is constantly sizing up the competition, or if my kid is perfectly content to rest on his laurels. Perhaps, a bit of both.

 

ETA: I am hoping that some of this is just being 6.

My dd15 is still supremely overconfident. Or just completely positive in her outlook on life. If she gets an 80 percent, her response is always "Awesome! I got 80 percent right!" She is completely sure she can always pull things off at the last minute (and usually does). And she is so much happier than her probably more gifted younger brother who, when he can't master something immediately is convinced he is a failure. DD approaches life with a sense of adventure and a conviction that she can do anything, while my son approaches life with a constant fear that he will never be good enough. I think if it's were up to me, I would much rather be sure of myself for no good reason rather than a high achiever plagued by self doubt. We are all so envious of her:-)

[nobeatenpath]

My dd15 is still supremely overconfident. Or just completely positive in her outlook on life. If she gets an 80 percent, her response is always "Awesome! I got 80 percent right!" She is completely sure she can always pull things off at the last minute (and usually does)....DD approaches life with a sense of adventure and a conviction that she can do anything

 

 

a bit OT but just wanted to say congrat to you for whatever parenting resulted in this, as I know (from experience!) how hard it is to be a happy, confident 15 year old girl. She sounds awesome!

 

[Arcadia]

We attended a RSM and a Math Kangaroo award ceremony two Saturday's in a row. There was an adorable 3rd grade boy who did very well on the AMC-8 and a 6th grade girl who scored 800 for the math section of SAT.

 

My boys were nonchalant about it. Got their awards and ready to go somewhere else to have fun. I did like the math kangaroo award ceremony more. The host was more efficient, less bragging and the ceremony was simple like a commencement ceremony.

 

A lot of parents did not RSVP for the math kangaroo award ceremony though.

[SanDiegoMom]

a bit OT but just wanted to say congrat to you for whatever parenting resulted in this, as I know (from experience!) how hard it is to be a happy, confident 15 year old girl. She sounds awesome!

She was a holy terror between the ages of 2 and 14, the result of an independent, strong willed personality parented by an overly indulgent mother and a five times deployed father! She should be a train wreck by now:-) I spent years wondering how on earth she could be my kid and when it was going to get better! It was worth the wait.

[nobeatenpath]

She was a holy terror between the ages of 2 and 14, the result of an independent, strong willed personality parented by an overly indulgent mother and a five times deployed father!

 

 

Well, we are not quite up to 5 deployments yet, but my son is only 11 and fitting that description (including about the mother ...) so I guess there is hope for us yet :closedeyes:

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I guess I'm the rain! I have no problem raining on my dd's parade. ;)   The other day she thanked me for it.

 

From early elementary school age we have had countless discussions about the bell curve, the curve within the curve, the curve within that curve, etc. It's been a great tool for helping her understand ability levels. We also discuss how people are born with a genetic range of ability in various areas. Hard work, determination, luck, and countless other variables determine where in that range a person ends up. We also discuss how sickness or injury can change the range. This allows her to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the interplay between nature/nurture and how both matter. It also helps her understand a bit about her place in the world. She's unique, just like everybody else. ;)

 

I agree that most of the time life and maturity can temper overconfidence. Sometimes that's natural, gradual, and unmemorable. Sometimes, though, it can be crushing, humiliating, and scar forming. For us, it seemed natural and right to have the discussion early and often. It serves both to temper overconfidence in areas in which she excels and to encourage her in areas where she doesn't. After her comment the other day, I think it was the right decision for us. It's certainly not the only way. :)