Kids working, college costs, etc.

[Moxie]

Would a kid be better off spending summer studing to improve test scores than working to pay for college? How much can a kid earn over the summer vs. more scholarships due to higher test scores?

[Guest]

Would a kid be better of spending summer studing to improve test scores than working to pay for college? How much can a kid earn over the summer vs. more scholarships due to higher test scores?

IME, scores aren't greatly helped by classes. So my opinion is that I would prefer they work and gain life skills over studying their brains out to try to raise SAT/ACT scores. The part that is annoying is that if the child does actually put away a nice cache, his or her aide eligibility is affected commensurately.

 

Nevertheless, I would rather my kid get more experience in jobs, volunteering, internships, etc. than attend score-boost classes or even just studying at home to try to get more merit aide. IMO, kids need to be out and exposed to the systems of work and/or volunteer organizations more than they need to hole up at home cramming more word definitions.

[catz]

My 8th grader just took the ACT for the first time.  I personally think there is time for some of both.  My kid will be working on several projects this summer (some paid, some not).  And will also be doing some math review.  And will also have time for fun.  I just don't think a teen will spend 40+ hours a week on test prep alone or would even benefit from that much.  I don't think every teen needs to work 40+ hours a week in the summer either.  I think it's possible to balance.  I also think colleges like to see balanced applications and to see that kids have social skills and get out the world. 

 

My 8th grader took the ACT through a talent search and did the EXPLORE earlier.  My kids are very smart, but are NOT natural testers.  Their scores and highs and lows don't necessarily reflect what I see day to day.  Having more opportunities to practice this particular skill has been a very good thing at this house.  I think my oldest will be in a very good place by junior year.  Without spend very intense amounts of time prepping.  Next year I'm going to roll like 15-20 minutes of ACT prep into school daily.  Your oldest is a good age to do this.  If you haven't done standardized testing, try it.  Maybe your kids will be natural testers and this won't even be an issue.  Or maybe one area will need work over others. 

[bettyandbob]

I don't have links, but I have seen a few articles recently that cite studies showing that working as a teen strongly correlates into professional success as an adult.

 

Like Quill said, there are many life skills attained by working. I am not sure that spending a whole summer devoted to test review in hopes of getting a better scholarship will translate into lifelong benefits.

 

Is there a reason a student wouldn't work and devote time to study in the summer. That is my dd's plan. dd won't be working full time, but I do know students who did work more than full time during summers in high school AND did study for entrance exams.

 

 

[bettyandbob]

Here are some articles

 

http://www.northeastern.edu/clms/wp-content/uploads/The_Case_for_Job_Creation_Program_for_the_Nations_Teens.pdf

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kerry-sullivan/youth-summer-jobs_b_1687922.html

 

http://www.schools.com/articles/teen-employment-aids-future-career-success.html

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't see why they can't do a bit of both. 

[laughing lioness]

Well, how much can they realistically earn in the summer? It most likely won't be to pay for college, but more like sundry items, given costs these days. Ds did both- he works construction AND took the ACT 3 times to get the score he wanted, while taking classes, and doing a few cleps - the state school he is currently enrolled in takes up to 10 cleps, so it's money well spent. 

Ds makes considerably more than minimum, given his experience and work history - teaching your kids how to dry-wall is a very good thing! 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yeah they can't generally earn much, but it's nice to have some extra spending money for stuff.  But then they don't have to work 100 hours a week either.  So there should be time to study as well.

 

 

[bettyandbob]

Most teens cannot earn a lot. Agreed. But having employers to list on a resume or as references leads to the next better job. Having a track record goes a long toward landing those jobs and internships in field while in college. And then you have the references and experience to get the next job...

 

 

[Lori D.]

Tough questions. It all is SO variable!

 

College Costs

First, you have to know what kind of costs you're going to have to plan for. College costs from College Board statistics, the averages for 2014-15:

 

$9,100/year = in-state tuition & fees for public universities ($31,000/year = private schools)

$10,000/year = room and board

$1100-1200/year = books and supplies 

$2,600-3,200/year = transportation, clothing, personal items, entertainment

 

So, an average total cost = $23,000/year if living on campus, or $13,000/home if living at home.

Or, if at a private school = $45,000/year if living on campus, or $35,000/year if living at home.

 

How much can a student make?

Really is going to vary, depending on what's available locally, and how much employers in your area pay students. In my area, students can earn about $8-9/hour, but most employers in our area only hire students for up to 30 hours/week, even in the summer. That comes out to about $3000 for the summer. If your student is really aggressively motivated, maybe more like $4000-45000 if the student can line up 2 part time jobs, or find work that pays $10/hour or something with generous tips. And then maybe another $5000 if the student can continue to work 15-18 hours/week during the school year. 

 

So in my area, a rough guess of what a student can make: maybe $3000-4500 for a summer of work… Maybe another $5000 working part time over the school year. Here are high school student job ideas.

 

How much merit aid do high test scores bring in?

That is SO variable! And dependent on the individual school. Some thoughts:

 

1. Not many students earn "full rides" or "full tuition" scholarships. Just from my limited experience: students with high test scores and high GPAs earn merit aid scholarships that typically take care of 10%-50% of the cost of tuition, depending on the  test score & GPA and on the school.

2. Apply to a college where the high test score puts the student in the top 5% of a college = more merit aid.

3. Some schools have more endowments and so can offer more and larger merit aid awards than other schools, so research.

4. The College Solution has a quick tutorial  for a new merit aid search tool, using the College Data website's search engine to search for schools that offer merit aid that is NOT also based on financial need

 

 

For more specifics on the scholarship search process, check out the thread "Preparing for college: what scholarships/grants to apply for?"

 

And, if finances are going to be a big concern for being able to attend college, look at some of the alternatives in this past thread: "s/o: Cautionary tale, high college costs -- a brainstorm ideas thread!" That thread has ideas like:

 

1. CLEP tests or dual enrollment during high school to earn college credit in advance, reducing time at college

2. Earn gen. ed. credits at a cheaper local community college, then transfer, reducing time at college

3. Earn an AAS degree, work full time at a higher paying job for several years, then go to the university

4. Tuition reimbursement programs (company pays college costs, you work for them after graduation in exchange)

5. University exchange program -- pay in-state tuition at an out-of-state college in the program

6. College Plus or other online college degree option through CLEP, DANTE, and online classes

 

BEST of luck in your merit aid search! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

[Ali in OR]

At our college night at my girls' high school, one presenter who has served on admissions staff said that in this day and age, work experience is unusual and can make a candidate stand out. And he was talking about a girl who worked full time at McDonald's--not fancy pre-career experience.

[Laura in CA]

If you post this on the High School and/or College boards, you will get even more responses. :) This topic comes up fairly often. And of course there is always a range of opinions and real-life examples. I will say that I think "doing both" is the best way for us. It is part of our family culture to work, starting at (at least) age 16; and separate from that, as Ali says, work experience -- even, or especially, minimum-wage jobs -- is looked upon favorably by admissions staff at the most elite colleges. OTOH, when my son was working at JCP (part-time during the school year and full-time during the summer), at $8/hr, he "only" made about $6k/yr ... whereas raising his ACT score by one extra point qualified him for a two-year, full-tuition scholarship at his out-of-state uni, with a total value of $25,000. And one more point would have gained him a four-year full-tuition + fees scholarship. However, my husband thinks that scoring that second extra point higher might have been out of his ability range ... thus I also agree w/the PP above who said that studying can only do so much. :)

 

ETA: I should clarify that my son already had good study skills. good test-taking skills, and a decent ACT score (just below scholarship range) to start with.

 

 

[redsquirrel]

I don't see how a teenager with access to a typical teenager appropriate job market (retail mall jobs, movie theater job, waiting tables, babysitting) can earn enough to make a dent in college to begin with.  Most of the families I know have their kid working to earn pocket money and learn responsibility. It doesn't amount to anything financially. Or, it could help pay for one semester of books, but then it is gone. 

 

[catz]

I agree the working is not to put a huge dent in college payments.  Although I worked through summers my jr./senior year and through college and was able to cover a lot of my own spending money and quite a bit of my books.  At some points, I started working 10-15 hours in college too.  Starting my junior year in college, I got an excellent internship.

 

That said, I do think work of some kind can go a long way towards some very important adult skills and can look good on a college application.  Even in terms of being comfortable with working with adults, communicating during a job interview, social skills, team work, etc.  Some of the work my kid is doing this summer is on theater related stuff.  Some is paid, some is not.  Both experiences are very valuable though. 

 

I've interviewed more than one new college grad that spent a little too much time in the books and not enough time interacting with the real world and had a hard time getting hired out of college. 

 

And don't get me wrong, at least my oldest is in a potential position to get scholarships probably (my youngest is only 10) so we will definitely be working that angle here!  But not at the expense of other important life skills.

[Laurel-in-CA]

One of my kids has worked p/t year round at a slightly-above-minimum wage job (no tips, sometimes commission). She makes about $5K/year and covers her gas and books and food....and runs on a shoestring.

 

The other makes a better-than-minimum p/t job with more reliable hours, including f/t in summer, and tips. He makes $9-10K/year, which has allowed him to save for his own car while attending CC and will pay most of his tuition @ state U next year.

 

Both have learned to talk with people from all over the world, be polite, respectful and even entertaining. The oldest is now working f/t for the company she worked p/t for through college. It doesn't pay that well, but they're training her to train others, do scheduling and inventory, etc. Meanwhile she's working on a great art portfolio. Child #2 (the one with tips) is going to propose to his employer a sort of an internship where he tries to boost their social media presence using skills he's learned @ CC and wants to apply during his 2 years @ state U. The fact that they've shown consistency and been retained as employees at the same place all thru college should speak well of them to future employers.

[Caroline]

I don't think my kid could make enough money to change our EFC. It's more than twice what we would pay if we were full pay, anyway, so we would still be paying the same amount. We are very grateful for the full tuition scholarship that is due in part to high test scores. However, my kid works in the summer. We didn't do much test prep. All is good.

[Tsuga]

$15/hr * 35 hours per week = 4,200 over two months. (Assuming they will keep you part time.) No tips. If you work every summer, that is 16,800. Where I went to college, $9,000 (okay, a few dollars left) annually for tuition.

 

Suppose you get in 40 hour weeks. That is half your tuition paid for. Where are you going to get a guaranteed scholarship of that much? Nowhere. I ended up paying off my undergrad loans no problem by working twice as much during college but I will be encouraging my children to get jobs.

 

At the state flagship, it's about $12,500, but our kids could live at home. Either way, yes, that is a substantial dent. I'd like my kids to be able to not run from class a mile to work like I did because I studied and did volunteer work in hope of "scholarships" in the summer.

[QueenCat]

$15/hr * 35 hours per week = 4,200 over two months. (Assuming they will keep you part time.) No tips. If you work every summer, that is 16,800. Where I went to college, $9,000 (okay, a few dollars left) annually for tuition.

 

Suppose you get in 40 hour weeks. That is half your tuition paid for. Where are you going to get a guaranteed scholarship of that much? Nowhere. I ended up paying off my undergrad loans no problem by working twice as much during college but I will be encouraging my children to get jobs.

 

At the state flagship, it's about $12,500, but our kids could live at home. Either way, yes, that is a substantial dent. I'd like my kids to be able to not run from class a mile to work like I did because I studied and did volunteer work in hope of "scholarships" in the summer.

 

$15/hour????????? Where? Around here, teens and college students make minimum wage, which is just under $8/hour.

[Chris in VA]

QueenCat, I don't know where you are, but some possibilities might include

 

Tutoring

 

Pet sitting/dog walking/house sitting

 

Yard maintenance

 

Babysitting

 

It definitely depends on your child and on the market, but also on the job. I've found looking outside of the box is a good thing.

I was just talking with a cashier at a grocery store--she said people are flocking to Publix, because they pay $15 an hour starting pay for cashiers with no experience. Who knew?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StephanieZ]

I'd say it depends a lot on where the kid's scores start. . . how close are they to major money? 

 

If your kid is close to National Merit level (minimally somewhere around 700+ per section on the SAT, depending on the state). Or, if your state or other preferred universities have other score-based scholarships, then, again, if the kid has potential to hit those numbers, then, definitely, focused test prep can be very worthwhile. There are some major state universities that post clear scholarships based on test scores, including full tuition ones . . . (University of Alabama has great ones.)

 

I had by oldest take an SAT spring of 10th grade, as a practice for the fall of 11th grade PSAT. She scored 2100+ on that first SAT, so in National Merit ball park. We invested some time that summer and fall for PSAT. She got her National Merit, is a National Merit Scholar, and will be receiving about 100k in scholarships due to that. We put in about 20-40 hours of test prep those months. Maybe 40-60 if you include the prep for that initial SAT. So, I'm guessing she earned somewhere in the ballpark of $2000/hr for that work. Most of it is tax-free, too. 

 

So, IMHO, if my kids are anywhere near the range of being able to hit those kinds of big $$ scholarships, I'd absolutely invest in test prep. We did ours on our own, with a couple cheap test books . . . but I was a NM Scholar, too, and so obviously test(ed) well and am confident in tutoring the kids through the prep books. 

 

Kid #2 is coming up on his all important PSAT this fall. I'll be doing all I can to drag him through test prep. Hopefully even more than dd#1, as I do totally believe it is very, very worthwhile. 

 

 

[regentrude]

Since pp mentioned PSAT and NM, I just want to say a word of caution: it ALL depends on the college whether it's worthwhile to invest a huge effort into this or not. Some schools give free rides, but that is far from the norm. My DD made National Merit Scholar and received 2k. Nice, and NM looks good on the transcript - but that is far from the financial bounty one might be led to expect.

 

[QueenCat]

QueenCat, I don't know where you are, but some possibilities might include

 

Tutoring

 

Pet sitting/dog walking/house sitting

 

Yard maintenance

 

Babysitting

 

It definitely depends on your child and on the market, but also on the job. I've found looking outside of the box is a good thing.

I was just talking with a cashier at a grocery store--she said people are flocking to Publix, because they pay $15 an hour starting pay for cashiers with no experience. Who knew?

 

I am not looking for things........ was just surprised at the $15/hour. Most of the above are not going to give one a solid number of hours every single week..... I do realize that in some areas, grocery stores pay more. My parents live near you, and told me that their local store pays $13/hour. Unheard of here, even at Publix.

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

My kids did receive scholarship money based on SAT scores but they never took a class or anything. On the other hand, unless they can find full time work minimum wage isn't going to earn them much over the summer. I think dual enrollment courses over the summer to get college credit for less expense might be the best time use.

[mom2samlibby]

$15/hr * 35 hours per week = 4,200 over two months. (Assuming they will keep you part time.) No tips. If you work every summer, that is 16,800. Where I went to college, $9,000 (okay, a few dollars left) annually for tuition.

 

Suppose you get in 40 hour weeks. That is half your tuition paid for. Where are you going to get a guaranteed scholarship of that much? Nowhere. I ended up paying off my undergrad loans no problem by working twice as much during college but I will be encouraging my children to get jobs.

 

At the state flagship, it's about $12,500, but our kids could live at home. Either way, yes, that is a substantial dent. I'd like my kids to be able to not run from class a mile to work like I did because I studied and did volunteer work in hope of "scholarships" in the summer.

 

Yeah, $15 an hour is not happening in this area either.  Most jobs are paying under $8 an hour.  I'm not sure if they would schedule teens for 35 hours a week either. 

 

However, scholarships around here do happen.  I graduated in a small class and all of us received a scholarship or several scholarships.  My ACT score got me a Regent's Scholarship to one school -- full ride for four years.  I turned it down and went to a different school that I received a President's Scholarship to.  It was 1/2 tuition for four years. 

 

I would have the child do some of both during the summer. 

[redsquirrel]

$15/hr * 35 hours per week = 4,200 over two months. (Assuming they will keep you part time.) No tips. If you work every summer, that is 16,800. Where I went to college, $9,000 (okay, a few dollars left) annually for tuition.

 

Suppose you get in 40 hour weeks. That is half your tuition paid for. Where are you going to get a guaranteed scholarship of that much? Nowhere. I ended up paying off my undergrad loans no problem by working twice as much during college but I will be encouraging my children to get jobs.

 

At the state flagship, it's about $12,500, but our kids could live at home. Either way, yes, that is a substantial dent. I'd like my kids to be able to not run from class a mile to work like I did because I studied and did volunteer work in hope of "scholarships" in the summer.

 

Not only is it not quite a bit over the minimum wage of 8.75, the chances of a teenager getting 35 hours per week is not realistic. Where is this happening on a regular basis?  Summer here is maybe 9 weeks. Very end of June to beginning of September. There is no employer around here that will hire a 16 year old to work 35 hours a week for 9 weeks. Those sorts of hours go to adults who are available all year.

 

It might be possible to get those hours, but not 15$ per hour, if the teen is babysitting. There are plenty of parents locally who are looking for a teen to be their summer nanny. That would absolutely be 40 hours plus per week and prob 10$ per hour. However, parents are prob going to hire a college student only because of the greater chance of having a drivers license to take kids to swimming lessons, library etc. A teenager can't drive until 16 or 17 years old, depending on their license status. And I know from experience that parents are pretty much only wanting girls for that job. They don't hire young men to care for kids.

[bettyandbob]

Where I live lifeguards start at $10. You can work full time as a lifeguard summers starting at 15 (if you took the certification before hiring deadline--the class is pricey, but the certification is worth the investment). 

Add in the pool operator's certificate, pay goes up.

Add in Water Safety certification and you get higher for teaching lessons, group and private, beyond the lifeguarding hours. 

Stay with the same company and each year you can move from lifeguard, to head lifeguard, to assistant manager, to manager. 

 

Babysitting pays $12/hour plus tips. I know teens who don't quit babysitting because they can make more babysitting than most jobs.

 

Everything else is minimum wage. So, there's another reason besides water safety to get your kid in swim lessons and keep them swimming. 

 

Back to the main question. There is no reason the student cannot work and study through the summer. Honestly, I'd be shocked if a teen really studied 40 hours a week for 10 weeks in a summer. And I don't think it's truly useful. In a job a teen learns lifeskills in interacting with coworkers, interacting with a boss, learning how request time off, interacting with the public, being organized with time and money. There are just a lot of basic things a person learns in those first jobs and they learn them without mom at their side which is a big deal. So, I think studying for entrance exams and working can and do coexist well for a typical teen.

 

[laughing lioness]

$15/hour????????? Where? Around here, teens and college students make minimum wage, which is just under $8/hour.

ds 20 has made $12- $15/hr for the past couple of years doing landscaping and construction/ roofing. He had basic construction skills and is a hard worker. He negotiated a huge pay raise with his first employer and hasn't looked back. He is willing to get very dirty, work hard, long hours, is not married to his phone and is teachable. 

[katilac]

$15/hr * 35 hours per week = 4,200 over two months. (Assuming they will keep you part time.) No tips. If you work every summer, that is 16,800. Where I went to college, $9,000 (okay, a few dollars left) annually for tuition.

 

Suppose you get in 40 hour weeks. That is half your tuition paid for. Where are you going to get a guaranteed scholarship of that much? Nowhere. I ended up paying off my undergrad loans no problem by working twice as much during college but I will be encouraging my children to get jobs.

 

At the state flagship, it's about $12,500, but our kids could live at home. Either way, yes, that is a substantial dent. I'd like my kids to be able to not run from class a mile to work like I did because I studied and did volunteer work in hope of "scholarships" in the summer.

 

$15 an hour is more than many adults working full-time make in my area! 

 

With a few exceptions, teens make minimum wage, and it would be quite rare to get anywhere near 35 hours.

 

"Summer jobs" are also really not a thing around here (except at swimming pools, and even then it's more like half the year, not summer). One would have to lie and say they intend to keep working through the year in order to get a job for the summer. 

 

But, if those figures were possible, I would definitely see the allure. Heck, if I could make $15/hour, I would get a summer job, lol. 

 

One correction, though: there are definitely schools that have guaranteed scholarships of that much and more; they just require a certain ACT score and GPA, and applying by the deadline. No, you can't guarantee a certain ACT score, but you can take practice tests in 9th/10th grades and have a pretty good idea if the student is within shouting distance. 

 

ds 20 has made $12- $15/hr for the past couple of years doing landscaping and construction/ roofing.  

 

That's great, but it sounds like he started at 18 or very close to it. I think it's much harder for slightly younger teens to get hired in construction - and, in my area, there would be a line of experienced adults aiming for that kind of pay. 

 

I'm very torn on the issue myself. I never thought my kids would get to their mid/late teens without working, but it just seemed to work out that way. Quite honestly, it would be very inconvenient for me to have them working: Oldest doesn't have a license, getting one would cost more in insurance than she would make, and the alternative is me driving her. We would have to change our school schedule, bc we don't take a 10 or 12 week summer break, and really we just like having the flexibility of them not working. 

 

Working seems much like schooling: what makes sense for one kid doesn't make sense for another. My kids do put in a lot of time with schoolwork, and they don't want any extras badly enough to give up their free time, lol. They do score high enough to get guaranteed scholarships at certain colleges they are interested in, and they know that other choices will mean working and loans. 

 

If they can get campus jobs, that actually seems like a lot easier to pull off than working now does.