BSA Moms (large troop question)

[DawnM]

If your troop is fairly large and there are too many boys needing/wanting to get their Eagle projects started at the same time, how do you prioritize?

 

I am asking because our troop currently  has 9 boys trying to get Eagle and start projects, but we can't let them start all at once, we just don't have that many weekends to schedule them all at once.

 

So far, we have prioritized by age first, date of rank second, and need third.  (Need being a pending move or similar thing.)

 

However, we are getting people complaining that it shouldn't matter the age or rank, it should just be first come, first served.

 

In a way, I get this, but when we have three 17 years olds about ready to age out, I think they should get a priority.

 

What does your troop do if you have to prioritize?

 

Dawn

[LisaKinVA]

I probably would prioritize anyone who was getting close to aging out first (within 6 months to a year), but beyond that -- first come, first served. 

In other words, boys close to aging out get priority in completing their tasks -- but their mentors should help to make sure they stay on track, if they aren't ready to "go" when they are supposed to, their project will have to slide.

Everyone else is in priority based upon when their projects get approved, but need to keep mentors/committee up to date on progress -- scheduling based upon who is ready to go first.

 

We've never had this problem (never more than a 2 or 3 working on an Eagle project at a time...currently, only my son is working on his, but there are 5 other boys talking about it). But I can imagine how it would be a bit unwieldy!  I know the SM Team implemented a new process to try to prevent the "I'm PCSing out in 3 months, and I need to finish my Eagle NOW" situation we encounter (kinda like the "I turn 18 in 3 months, and I need to finish my Eagle NOW" situation), so far it seems to be working.

 

 

[FriedClams]

I'd have to read up some, but off the top of my head I'd say first come, with some reason. I don't think a highly motivated 14 year old should be shelved for a slacking 17 year old just because the age clock is ticking. Poor planning and lack of priorities by an older scout shouldn't hurt a younger one. Each scout has their reason to complete, and I don't think younger guys should be discounted based solely on age. Now, a motivated 17 year old that maybe started late, I'm ok with that being more of an age thing. Or, a young guy who needs more time to grow having to wait a little, I'm ok with that too. I'd go case by case, look at participation, days camping, advancement records, etc. and then decide.

[DawnM]

I'd have to read up some, but off the top of my head I'd say first come, with some reason. I don't think a highly motivated 14 year old should be shelved for a slacking 17 year old just because the age clock is ticking. Poor planning and lack of priorities by an older scout shouldn't hurt a younger one. Each scout has their reason to complete, and I don't think younger guys should be discounted based solely on age. Now, a motivated 17 year old that maybe started late, I'm ok with that being more of an age thing. Or, a young guy who needs more time to grow having to wait a little, I'm ok with that too. I'd go case by case, look at participation, days camping, advancement records, etc. and then decide.

 

 

We have a bit of an issue with that one as well.  There is a boy whose Eagle project was approved almost 9 months ago, but then he has jumped ship and hasn't attended any meetings, campouts, or ANY scout event since September as he has been playing sports.  His parents are insisting that once his sport is over in June, he should be allowed to swoop in and start his Eagle project immediately so that he can finish over the summer (and then fly the coop again for sports in September.)

 

I am actually very upset about it.  I think they are going to tell him he can't do that, but to me, he has made his priorities and it IS NOT scouts!

 

Dawn

[DawnM]

Ok, so let me ask you all this:

 

If a 15 year old, almost 16 year old, is wanting to start his Eagle project and the troop says they want him to wait a year because they have older scouts who need to finish up, what would you say?  This is NOT my son, but my 15 year old would like to do his by next Spring and I am afraid we may run in to the same issue.  

 

Dawn

 

PS:  My 17 year old is getting his project approval meeting this week and hopes to start within the next 3 weeks.  It isn't an issue as they know he is 17 and needs to finish up.  He is NOT a slacker, he just has some special needs and we are just thrilled that he is this far!  It is hard for him.

[DawnM]

We dont consider 17 year olds to be slackers. All of them have grown to be busy people and leaders...school, full participants in troop, summer camp counselors, varsity athletes, church responsibilities, community projects, etc.they are the go to guy for some domain in the troop. And jr year of high school is outrageously demanding on their time, especially if they were not born high iq. They are fully developed, in comparison to the 13 year old who is rushing thru, but has not developed the respect of the other scouts. In other words, book smart and minimal ldrship is not what the Troop is after.

 

 

Thank you!  I agree.  

 

My youngest is self motivated and may try to get Eagle early, and I assume my middle son will have it before he turns 17, but I truly don't CARE either way.......get it at 14 or get it at 17 and 3/4, just GET it!

[jen3kids]

We have a fairly large troop, but the majority of the boys are 13 or younger.  So, we may see this issue in the future.

 

Is this an issue of not enough Scouts to work on the projects or is the leadership running into time constraints/lack of numbers?  

 

If it is the former...

Is every Scout required to help on every Eagle project?  Why can 2 Eagle projects not take place on the same weekend?   The Scouts could choose which to attend, or schedule morning and afternoon work times or Saturday vs Sunday?

 

If it is the latter...

I guess I'd go with age and then motivation level and who is ready to get to it.  There are always going to be boys who slack off (like my son who was Life at 14 and is now less than 2 months shy of 18), but know they want to do it, and I think they deserve understanding and grace, but they do not deserve adults bending over backwards for them.  If they are willing to put in the time and effort and an adult is willing to be their Eagle Coach on a short timeline, then that's ok.  But they cannot demand it and they should understand that.  My son gets that (thankfully, because I don't think I could hold my tongue if he started complaining about not being able to finish - you've had 4 YEARS!)

 

   

 

 

[LisaKinVA]

We have a bit of an issue with that one as well.  There is a boy whose Eagle project was approved almost 9 months ago, but then he has jumped ship and hasn't attended any meetings, campouts, or ANY scout event since September as he has been playing sports.  His parents are insisting that once his sport is over in June, he should be allowed to swoop in and start his Eagle project immediately so that he can finish over the summer (and then fly the coop again for sports in September.)

 

I am actually very upset about it.  I think they are going to tell him he can't do that, but to me, he has made his priorities and it IS NOT scouts!

 

Dawn

 

Look at what the Guide to Scouting and Advancement says regarding this issue -- especially regarding "alternate standards" for showing participation and scout spirit -- they specifically address this issue (although you might not like the official position).  The main part is that he is supposed to work out his participation in whatever with the Scoutmaster Team.  A scout isn't supposed to have to choose EITHER scouts OR sports -- that's not right, either.  

[DawnM]

We have a fairly large troop, but the majority of the boys are 13 or younger.  So, we may see this issue in the future.

 

Is this an issue of not enough Scouts to work on the projects or is the leadership running into time constraints/lack of numbers?  

 

If it is the former...

Is every Scout required to help on every Eagle project?  Why can 2 Eagle projects not take place on the same weekend?   The Scouts could choose which to attend, or schedule morning and afternoon work times or Saturday vs Sunday?

 

If it is the latter...

I guess I'd go with age and then motivation level and who is ready to get to it.  There are always going to be boys who slack off (like my son who was Life at 14 and is now less than 2 months shy of 18), but know they want to do it, and I think they deserve understanding and grace, but they do not deserve adults bending over backwards for them.  If they are willing to put in the time and effort and an adult is willing to be their Eagle Coach on a short timeline, then that's ok.  But they cannot demand it and they should understand that.  My son gets that (thankfully, because I don't think I could hold my tongue if he started complaining about not being able to finish - you've had 4 YEARS!)

 

I don't know.  I think they just don't want two running simultaneously.  And honestly, even though our troop is a homeschool only troop, we still run in to popularity issues......so if popular kid is simultaneous with not so popular kid, popular kid may have 10 kids coming to help while the other gets 2.  That is part of it as well.

 

And at one point boys were having workdays on weekdays but once the boys get to high school, it is harder and harder to give up a school day to go help.  

 

We have a campout once per month, church workdays quarterly, and so it is hard to find time.

 

Thankfully my oldest chose a project where he doesn't necessarily need to rely on the scouts to help.  We have church friends who want to jump in and help and the days they lay pavers, we need very few people there, and definitely only skilled help as we need it laid correctly.

 

I am encouraging my middle to choose a similar project so that we don't have to rely on large numbers of busy scouts who are doing several other things.

 

Dawn

[FriedClams]

We dont consider 17 year olds to be slackers. All of them have grown to be busy people and leaders...school, full participants in troop, summer camp counselors, varsity athletes, church responsibilities, community projects, etc.they are the go to guy for some domain in the troop. And jr year of high school is outrageously demanding on their time, especially if they were not born high iq. They are fully developed, in comparison to the 13 year old who is rushing thru, but has not developed the respect of the other scouts. In other words, book smart and minimal ldrship is not what the Troop is after.

My 15 yr old was stalled for 2 years, due to the SM deciding not to hold elections. He appointed all the leaders. We quickly advised ds to get a Den Chief position so he would be able to do his Eagle Project. His older friend didnt, and by the time the SM was removed, friend did not have enough time left to complete leadership reqts. For Eagle Rank. My son also served as camp counselor over the summers and various things the district needed volunteers for. All of that developed his leadership skills to the point that his Project was cookbook, and went very quickly, with help from the Troop.

100% agree. Being older doesn't mean slacker. At all. You're 100% right. But a motivated younger guy (14,15 ready to go), and a guy that it hasn't been a priority, that's a tough one. (And I mean honestly - not a priority - not circumstantial, not conflicts but trying, more checked out.)

 

Bottom line, in our troop we want every boy to go as far as possible and we (the leaders) are all happy (mostly, LOL) to jump any hoop to help any boy. If it were my troop, I'd plan on a summer of labor and help with as many projects as possible. And, the guys dont have to use scouts. They have to lead - and that can be church friends, etc. Maybe some of the guys who want to push in the summer can gather their own cadre to lead on their project.

[linders]

Not large, but medium sized. We do prioritize boys about to age out over other activities - in April we cancelled a campout so the troop could help an Eagle candidate build a boardwalk through the state park. (Honestly, I think everyone got more out of that construction project than a campout.)

 

The leaders will sometimes gripe among themselves about the Eagle-wannabes who wait until the last minute, but in the end we do whatever is needed to support them, including putting younger Eagle candidates on hold.

[Anne in CA]

If the younger boys can get volunteers from outside the troop I would let them schedule.

[Serenade]

My boys have been members of both a small and a large troop, and both sizes have had kids working on Eagle at the same time.  In the large Troop, it was not even unusual for multiple kids to be working on projects simultaneously, and I don't believe there was any Troop input on when an Eagle project could be scheduled.  Scouts just scheduled, and it was up to them to make sure they had people to work the project.  I do know that sometimes when no scouts signed up to help on a project, sometimes the scoutmaster or the adult mentor would send out a message, too, with all of the reasons to help a fellow scout.  That would often get another kid or two on board to help. 

[livetoread]

My son's troop has around 150 scouts. He eagled at 15 along with several last minute scouts. I have never heard of the troop prioritizing projects. They have the process down and the only thing that slowed him down was himself. It's up to the scout to get help with projects, and sometimes I've seen two different projects scheduled the same weekend.

[DawnM]

Look at what the Guide to Scouting and Advancement says regarding this issue -- especially regarding "alternate standards" for showing participation and scout spirit -- they specifically address this issue (although you might not like the official position).  The main part is that he is supposed to work out his participation in whatever with the Scoutmaster Team.  A scout isn't supposed to have to choose EITHER scouts OR sports -- that's not right, either.  

 

 

I can't make heads or tails of 100 page guide unless someone points me to exactly what is said.

[DawnM]

Sports is not an issue here. My son had an SM who thought it was. He got trained, and came to realize that Varsity Team Captain isnt a popularity contest, and is a serious leadership role. My son gained so much out of that role that he declined SPL so that his friend could have SPL and develop his skills. We also had a boy Eagle who wasnt able to come to many Troop meetings due to his high school evening class meeting at the same time. The leadership worked around his schedule, he participated in as many Troop and Council activities as he could, and did quite a bit of set up work in the background. He was no stranger to the Troop when he invited scouts to come help with his project.

 

When we joined, the troop was full of older boys who were varsity athletes. Really nice, as they could motivate the younger ones to go on those hikes and bike rides and give skiing/snowboarding a try. And the swimmers taught swim skills.

 

We dont get older guys who suddenly want to earn Eagle. Its 13 yr olds whose dad want them to be the youngest, or high school guys of any age who are moving along and steadily growing in their capabilities. In this area, being 15 and a sophomore in high school works out well...one then has time jr and sr years for serious varsity athletics and academics without the Project time pressure or the SPL time pressure. I havent seen a kid that could be a Varsity Captain and an SPL simultaneously, but I have seen Student Council Pres/SPL (that kid went to USMA).

 

This particular boy hasn't shown his face for 8 solid months.  Not at all!  No campouts, no activities, no meetings, no hikes, nothing.

[LisaKinVA]

I can't make heads or tails of 100 page guide unless someone points me to exactly what is said.

4.2.3.1 Active Participation

 

The purpose of Star, Life, and Eagle Scout requirements calling for Scouts to be active for a period of months involves impact. Since we prepare young people to go forth, and essentially, make a positive difference in our American society, we judge that a member is “active†when his level of activity in Scouting, whether high or minimal, has had a sufficiently positive influence toward this end.

 

Use the following three sequential tests to determine whether the requirement has been met. The first and second are required, along with either the third or its alternative.

The Scout is registered. The youth is registered in his unit for at least the time period indicated in the requirement, and he has indicated in some way, through word or action, that he considers himself a member. If a boy was supposed to have been registered, but for whatever reason was not, discuss with the local council registrar the possibility of back-registering him.

The Scout is in good standing. A Scout is considered in “good standing†with his unit as long as he has not been dismissed for disciplinary reasons. He must also be in good standing with the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. (In the rare case he is not, communications will have been delivered.)

The Scout meets the unit's reasonable expectations; or, if not, a lesser level of activity is explained. If, for the time period required, a Scout or qualifying Venturer or Sea Scout meets those aspects of his unit’s pre-established expectations that refer to a level of activity, then he is considered active and the requirement is met. Time counted as “active†need not be consecutive. A boy may piece together any times he has been active and still qualify. If he does not meet his unit’s reasonable expectations, then he must be offered the alternative that follows.

Units are free to establish additional expectations on uniforming, supplies for outings, payment of dues, parental involvement, etc., but these and any other standards extraneous to a level of activity shall not be considered in evaluating this requirement.

Alternative to the third test if expectations are not met:

 

If a young man has fallen below his unit’s activity oriented expectations, then it must be due to other positive endeavors—in or out of Scouting—or due to noteworthy circumstances that have prevented a higher level of participation.

 

A Scout in this case is still considered “active†if a board of review can agree that Scouting values have already taken hold and have been exhibited. This might be evidenced, for example, in how he lives his life and relates to others in his community, at school, in his religious life, or in Scouting. It is also acceptable to consider and “count†positive activities outside Scouting when they, too, contribute to his growth in character, citizenship, or personal fitness. Remember: It is not so much about what a Scout has done. It is about what he is able to do and how he has grown.

 

Additional Guidelines on the Three Tests.

 

There may be, of course, registered youth who appear to have little or no activity. Maybe they are out of the country on an exchange program, or away at school. Or maybe we just haven’t seen them and wonder if they’ve quit. To pass the first test above, a Scout must be registered. But he should also have made it clear through participation or by communicating in some way that he still considers himself a member, even though—for now—he may not fulfill the unit’s participation expectations. A conscientious leader might make a call and discover the boy’s intentions.

 

If, however, a Scout has been asked to leave his unit due to behavioral issues or the like, or if the council or the Boy Scouts of America has directed—for whatever reason—that he may not participate, then according to the second test he is not considered “active.â€

 

In considering the third test, it is appropriate for units to set reasonable expectations for attendance and participation. Then it is simple: Those who meet them are “active.†But those who do not must be given the opportunity to qualify under the third-test alternative above. To do so, they must first offer an acceptable explanation. Certainly, there are medical, educational, family, and other issues that for practical purposes prevent higher levels of participation. These must be considered. Would the Scout have been more active if he could have been? If so, for purposes of advancement, he is deemed “active.â€

 

We must also recognize the many worthwhile opportunities beyond Scouting. Taking advantage of these opportunities and participating in them may be used to explain why unit participation falls short. Examples might include involvement in religious activities, school, sports, or clubs that also develop character, citizenship, or personal fitness. The additional learning and growth experiences these provide can reinforce the lessons of Scouting and also give young men the opportunity to put them into practice in a different setting.

 

It is reasonable to accept that competition for a Scout’s time will become intense, especially as he grows older and wants to take advantage of positive “outside†opportunities. This can make full-time dedication to his unit difficult to balance. A fair leader therefore, will opportunities both inside and outside Scouting, and consider them part of the overall positive life experience for which the Boy Scouts of America is a driving force.

 

A board of review can accept an explanation if it can be reasonably sure there have been sufficient influences in the Scout’s life that he is meeting our aims and can be awarded the rank regardless of his current or most recent level of activity in Scouting. The board members must satisfy themselves that he presents himself, and behaves, according to the expectations of the rank for which he is a candidate. Simply put: Is he the sort of person who, based on present behavior, will contribute to the Boy Scouts of America’s mission? Note that it may be more difficult, though not impossible, for a younger member to pass through the third-test alternative than for one more experienced in our lessons.

[TechWife]

Ok, so let me ask you all this:

 

If a 15 year old, almost 16 year old, is wanting to start his Eagle project and the troop says they want him to wait a year because they have older scouts who need to finish up, what would you say?  This is NOT my son, but my 15 year old would like to do his by next Spring and I am afraid we may run in to the same issue.  

 

 

That's a problem. He shouldn't have to wait - especially if he's ready to go and the other kids aren't. 

[Sandragood1]

My ds earned his Eagle last year. He just squeaked in before 18. His troop is large - 100 boys about 70 regularly active. The troop has many boys going for Eagle.

 

I can think of no good reason why boys who want to proceed and have completed the requirements should be held back from doing their project.

 

This does not mean that the boys should ignore possible conflicts between their projects. They can work it out themselves or deal with low turnout. That is *their* issue to deal with. Not an issue for troop adults. It is part of the project to figure these things out.

[Luckymama]

My son's troop has around 150 scouts. He eagled at 15 along with several last minute scouts. I have never heard of the troop prioritizing projects. They have the process down and the only thing that slowed him down was himself. It's up to the scout to get help with projects, and sometimes I've seen two different projects scheduled the same weekend.

This, exactly, was how ds's troop was run.

 

All projects had outside/non-Scout people helping.

 

(Ds submitted his Eagle paperwork the day before his 18th birthday. I insisted that dh/ds send me a picture of him handing the papers to the lovely person at the Scout office. His project was done months before. People, have your boys do their projects as sophomores before the craziness of junior (testing) and senior (applications) years!!!!!!!!)

[DawnM]

My ds earned his Eagle last year. He just squeaked in before 18. His troop is large - 100 boys about 70 regularly active. The troop has many boys going for Eagle.

 

I can think of no good reason why boys who want to proceed and have completed the requirements should be held back from doing their project.

 

This does not mean that the boys should ignore possible conflicts between their projects. They can work it out themselves or deal with low turnout. That is *their* issue to deal with. Not an issue for troop adults. It is part of the project to figure these things out.

 

In the past there has also been favoritism.  That is part of the issue.  So, telling a boy who isn't as "popular" that it is his issue can cause problems.  Our troop is not bad (or I would have left years ago) but there are some things that irk me.

 

The new Scoutmaster's opinion is diff than the previous SM's opinion.  This one feels like it is up to the boy to finish and he shouldn't be helped unless he asks for it.  The previous SM liked to brag that our troop had 100% Eagle scout achievement if the boy stayed until age 18. 

 

We are looking at having our first 2 scouts age out without Eagle this year.  

[mom2scouts]

The troop or adult leaders have no business setting up the schedules for Eagle projects or prioritizing certain projects over others.  Sure, do whatever you can to help those older boys finish Eagle before they age out, but not at the expense of younger boys who are ready to go.  It shouldn't have anything to do with being "popular" in the troop because the boy can have anyone (neighbors, church members, family, Scouts from other troops who need service hours, teammates) help him if he leads the project.  Also, National has made it clear that you can't deny a boy Eagle because he's been using his time in other activities but has maintained his Scout membership.

[TechWife]

 

I am asking because our troop currently  has 9 boys trying to get Eagle and start projects, but we can't let them start all at once, we just don't have that many weekends to schedule them all at once.

 

 

 

Sure you can! There can be more than one activity running on a weekend. If the Troop doesn't do this already, then how do they have troop meetings, troop campouts, patrol campouts, leadership training, patrol leader meetings, den chiefs that go to Cub Scout den and pack meetings, OA campouts and projects, fundraisers and miscellaneous projects that pop up? There simply aren't enough days in the month and each scout has to make choices, that's all. 

 

I don't know.  I think they just don't want two running simultaneously.  

 

 

 

With a troop this size, they need to get past this. Multiple Eagle Projects are in process all the time in the troop my son was in. They are in various stages of planning and execution, but when a scout needs a work day, they plan it and recruit volunteers from both inside and outside the troop. Other than avoiding the times when there are troop campouts and summer camp, multiple activities have to be scheduled on the same weekend frequently. 

[TechWife]

In the past there has also been favoritism.  That is part of the issue.  So, telling a boy who isn't as "popular" that it is his issue can cause problems.  

 

Why? Part of being an Eagle Scout is being a leader, which means taking the initiative to communicate clearly with each other and work things out so that their projects can be placed on the calendar. It isn't a popularity contest and the adult leaders who let that mentality develop need to be taken to task over it, quite frankly. They aren't training their patrol leaders well if they aren't coaching them away from playing favorites. 

[Sandragood1]

On popularity: boys are always more likely to show up and help at the Eagle Projects of their friends. Therefore those with more friends have more kids show up, all other things being equal. I think this is perfectly normal. Every boy cannot do every project. They have other commitments. You prioritize your friends over acquaintances.

 

What you can do is play around with providing a "draw." Donuts and oj for breakfast and pizza and sodas for lunch for workers. If the boys will be using power tools or doing something really interesting put that information out there. If possible time your project for parts of the year which are typically slow for other commitments.

 

I suppose if you get 50 boys at one project and 3 at another project the same day, you could post sign up sheets that limit the number of volunteers to 10 or so. That will not make kids show up at the second project but it may help.

[DawnM]

Why? Part of being an Eagle Scout is being a leader, which means taking the initiative to communicate clearly with each other and work things out so that their projects can be placed on the calendar. It isn't a popularity contest and the adult leaders who let that mentality develop need to be taken to task over it, quite frankly. They aren't training their patrol leaders well if they aren't coaching them away from playing favorites. 

 

 

Because you can't make people do things.  It very often IS a popularity contest, just like it is in real life often times.

 

I am tired of fighting.  I feel like I am always the one fighting for the underdog and it falls on deaf ears.  I just need my boys to get through.

 

The time I took on the troop bully was a nightmare.  I don't even want to go into it.  Thankfully he is now gone.

 

Dawn

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I don't see a need to prioritize one boy over the next.  Each project proposal should be considered in the order it was submitted.  If you have an exceptionally large troop I don't see why you couldn't have multiple projects on any given weekend.  

 

I think it is a mistake to assume that one should always help the boy who might age out over the younger scout.  Yes, the older one might age out but the younger scout might loose interest in scouting if his enthusiasm is constantly put on the back burner.  Do boys who truly want to finish before 18 need some quick help and turn around-yes.  Should that be at the expense of other scouts in the troop-not always.

 

And for every 13yo who's dad wants him to be the "youngest ever" Eagle scout there is an almost 18yo who's parents want them to "get Eagle or else" (or get Eagle on their college app) before they age out.  Parents who lean on their kids to make Eagle are not restricted to a certain age group.  

 

And IMHO-troops shouldn't have a policy of all boys make Eagle if they stay until 18.  Being an Eagle scout isn't for every kid but there is much about being a boy scout and participating in a troop that is good for a boy.  

[DawnM]

I don't see a need to prioritize one boy over the next.  Each project proposal should be considered in the order it was submitted.  If you have an exceptionally large troop I don't see why you couldn't have multiple projects on any given weekend.  

 

I think it is a mistake to assume that one should always help the boy who might age out over the younger scout.  Yes, the older one might age out but the younger scout might loose interest in scouting if his enthusiasm is constantly put on the back burner.  Do boys who truly want to finish before 18 need some quick help and turn around-yes.  Should that be at the expense of other scouts in the troop-not always.

 

And for every 13yo who's dad wants him to be the "youngest ever" Eagle scout there is an almost 18yo who's parents want them to "get Eagle or else" (or get Eagle on their college app) before they age out.  Parents who lean on their kids to make Eagle are not restricted to a certain age group.  

 

And IMHO-troops shouldn't have a policy of all boys make Eagle if they stay until 18.  Being an Eagle scout isn't for every kid but there is much about being a boy scout and participating in a troop that is good for a boy.  

 

Yeah, this was one man's push, although I will say that when he was Scoutmaster, the troop was much smaller and it is was easier to make sure it happened.  It is larger now and just not as manageable for that sort of thing.  AND the new SM doesn't have the same opinion.  He feels that if the boy wants Eagle, he should be the one to do it.  

 

I do lean on my oldest.  I will admit that.  He also doesn't want to finish high school.  I am leaning on him for that too.  He is going through a pretty severe depression and some other issues right now and finishing high school and eagle is not an option, he has to finish.  He has 39 merit badges and will be getting 5 more this summer at camp.  He has done every single thing leading to Eagle and dog gone it, he WILL finish.  

 

My other 2 I don't need to push or lean on, they want to finish on their own efforts, and will.

 

Dawn

[Serenade]

On popularity: boys are always more likely to show up and help at the Eagle Projects of their friends. Therefore those with more friends have more kids show up, all other things being equal. I think this is perfectly normal. Every boy cannot do every project. They have other commitments. You prioritize your friends over acquaintances.

 

 

 

 

And I think that boys are also likely to help those that they've seen being active in their or others' projects, even if they  are not necessarily friends.  I do think boys in this age category start to respect team players, regardless of friendship.

[Serenade]

 Being an Eagle scout isn't for every kid but there is much about being a boy scout and participating in a troop that is good for a boy.  

 

Can't emphasize this enough.  Even some of our scoutmasters have had sons who didn't make Eagle...

[8circles]

If popularity is such an issue in this troop, what kind of scouts is it producing?  I find that very concerning and would look for another troop if changes weren't being made to address it.  

 

Our troop is not as large (about 50 scouts) but I posed this question to parents of scouts in much larger groups and they had never heard of the troop having such a heavy scheduling hand regarding eagle projects.

[Jyhwkmama]

It really should be up to the scout to recruit people from outside the troop to help with his project. any scout who is able to drum up his own support should be able to do his project whenever he is ready. 

[DawnM]

If popularity is such an issue in this troop, what kind of scouts is it producing?  I find that very concerning and would look for another troop if changes weren't being made to address it.  

 

Our troop is not as large (about 50 scouts) but I posed this question to parents of scouts in much larger groups and they had never heard of the troop having such a heavy scheduling hand regarding eagle projects.

 

.  My two oldest are too close to Eagle to change troops and my youngest just bridged and honestly, I think his age group is nicer.   There ARE some good kids in there though, I don't want to paint a broad brush.  We have been there a long time so leaving would be difficult.

[DawnM]

My son was accused of being popular. It was interesting, bc the dad who vented was upset that his wasnt. His son had social skills issues that he didnt fix, but the other reason for the frustration was that dad wasnt taking the coaching advice seriously when it came to planning...he and his boy only did scouting, his child didnt help in any other Eagle Projects before his, so they didnt know how to run a community project. The other families had been involved in community, school, and/or church events, and knew to line up expertise, have a role for everyone, avoid cattle calls, and plan the work times around the workers' calendars as well as communicate the meal and water plan in advance. And I agree with others...high school boys dont choose on popularity....its expertise and attitude. Nobody wants to get to a campout without the right gear and be eating burned pancakes because the SPL is clueless when he assigns jobs, and of course jerks and pipsqueaks arent going to fare well even if they have technical expertise.

 

Perhaps the son has a neurological issue that can't be "fixed?"

 

I was going to address the popularity thing but I don't know who lurks these boards, so I am editing.  Our current SPL is goofy and immature. He is not a leader, but he is popular.

[DawnM]

Did he meet the rank reqt for being active for 6 months after earning Life?

 

My son was not able to attend much in the troop jr year...many activities were deliberately put on dates such as school concerts, varsity sports matches, honor society induction, SAT tests etc. Spring break and winter break were booked well before the Troop made its schedule and decided to put campouts there.. He had already met the other rank reqts before starting his project and he did ask his Patrol Leader to make the case at Greenbar for considering the school schedule before planning events.

 

Be aware that the Troop cant have a different definition of being active for each scout, and that includes special needs. Our troop went to a certain percentile of troop activies attended, and they had to be careful to make sure they counted and substituted correctly, as some of the boys who couldnt attend a troop activity were organizing and carrying out patrol activities or were active Den Chiefs or also involved in a Crew. Conflicts arise with kids who are fully participating in the community, especially if the troop makes its calendar only mos on advance and decides major holidays and school events for the jrs/srs dont matter.

 

I think so, although I am not completely positive.

[DawnM]

I am no expert, but the objections the kids made were about his hygeine and his idea that he didnt have to pitch in and actually do any work. I was able to solve the first issue but the entitlement was deep rooted. To my knowledge, entitlement isnt a sn.

 

Goofy can be solved...give that kid more real responsibility. Ime they get silly when they dont have enough to do. Invite him to leave the dark side, and use his powers for the good of the troop. Provide any training he lacks.

 

Well, that paints a different picture than what I was thinking when you stated that he had social issues.

 

This kid's goofiness isn't being solved and I don't have the authority to do much more about it that I am already doing.  There is some parenting stuff going on there too that is problematic.  It is more involved than just the goofiness though.