What age to start Preschool?

[give_me_a_latte]

What age did you start using more solid curriculum? For example, SSRW, or HWT? Obviously, you went by readiness signs!!

 

I'm trying to pre-pre-plan when we'll do certain things, and if we start K the Fall he turns 5.....that would put his preschool year starting the Fall he turns 4.

 

So what if he's ready earlier? We do preschool starting at age 3-ish.....and do two years of preschool? Or just start K level at age 4? Oi!

 

Yes, I'm overthinking. Would anyone mind sharing what they did and when for preschool? I'd appreciate it!!

[Amanda_Jo]

Here we do a very relaxed prek at age 3- completely interest driven. Consists of following child's interest by getting books from the library, finding crafts online etc. My goal at age 3 is to teach a few basic concepts- shapes, colors, counting, some alphabet recognition, and practice fine motor skills in fun way. We use whatever workbooks look interesting from Target-especially Kumon.

 

At age 4 we begin Explode the Code A, B, and C and Singapore Earlybird 1a and 1b. We do a letter a week from ETC and also base our entire week around that letter. We get books from the library using themes based on the letter of the week (F week = fish, food, family, etc), we also do crafts and activities from the theme. We do approx. 1 to 2 Singapore lessons a week.

[Parrothead]

We started formally just before dd turned 4. She is an October baby. She was so ready before we started. That was actually the year we decided to homeschool. I couldn't find a preschool that would place her with her abilities instead of her age.

 

If I had known about homeschooling then I would have spent her 3 year old year working more formally with her doing readiness activities. So, yeah, starting at 3 and going as long as the interest is there is fine. Lots of read-alouds, letter recognition, math readiness, crafts spread out over the day. 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there.

 

Keep track of what you are doing when so you have something to show yourself.

[Narrow Gate Academy]

For my DS last year at 3 (Preschool), we had a reading time, working on recognizing the letters of the alphabet, some counting and number recognition. We also did Kumon coloring and cutting when requested. We kept things relaxed without a formal curriculum and played various games to learn.

 

This year at 4 (PreK), we're starting Phonics Pathways, working on counting to 100, skip counting, and other basic math skills without a formal program, and reading lots of books using a geography theme. We still have Kumon books available on request. Because DS loves to cut, I'm also trying to do one simple paper craft each Friday when his older sisters are working on their lapbooks.

 

My plan is to continue PP and add in a more formal math program for K.

 

This is basically what all my kids have done so far, and it's worked well for us. Of course, we have all spring birthdays, so the starting age is really 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 for us.

 

HTH

[Melissa B]

We don't do preschool. But we start K (actual curriculum) when the child is ready.

 

dd1 - age 5

dd2 - age 5 1/2

dd3 - age 4

ds1 - ???? (probably 5 or 5 1/2)

[Annie Laurie]

We don't really do Preschool either, as far as having expectations or worrying about finishing anything. I do provide lots of varied materials for littles to explore. My current 4 yr old does workbooks because he likes to feel included with his 6 and 7 yr old siblings. What I do is fill his bin with various workbooks (Kumon, R&S Preschool, etc), and he picks what he wants to do when, if at all. He likes to get one out and sit at the table with us during seatwork, but occasionally he chooses not to. Today he played at the lego table instead, which my 7 yr old ds thought was totally unfair, but I pointed out to him that he didn't have to do school work at age 4 either.

 

My only "must do" is read alouds, lots of picture books and beginning chapter books. Poetry, nursery rhymes, non-fiction, stories, and so on.

 

Today 4 yr old and I made an animal book, his idea and he is so proud. Great fine motor skills practice too. He drew one animal on each page; copying from Ed Emberley, then he wrote the name of the animal; great reading practice, then we made a cover and stapled it all together.

 

All of my kids learned how to write and beginning reading through informal activities like that.

[Guest]

We are doing a formal preschool this year and ds is 3. (almost 3.5)

 

Last year I decided that ds needed to learn the ABC song. He was very behind verbally and had a cousin that is way ahead verbally. Not that it should matter, but it was really hard to hear from brother and sil how advanced their son was. So, we set out to learn our abc's. To our surprise, he not only picked up the song, but was able to recognize all the letters in about 3 months. Next came numbers. We started teaching him stuff in February of this year when he was 2. By the time summer came, he knew all his letters and numbers to 20. So, we decided to do a gentle Preschool with him this year. I bought a phonics program (SWR) and he surprised me by wanting to do it. He has learned all his basic phonograms in the last 2 months and can write (large motor skills) almost all of them. He is on the verge of reading, which I never expected. We bought Saxon K which is a breeze.

 

Our preschool this year looks like this:

Phonics (SWR)

Saxon Math

Rod & Staff Readiness Books - Cutting, pasting, coloring, Right vs. Left, etc.

Lots of Read Alouds

 

He loves it and is thriving on it. I originally thought we'd just do a 4 year old K next year, but I really don't want to do that. I'm going to see how this year goes, how he progresses. If he is reading and progressing as much as he is now, we may purchase K materials. If it becomes too tedious, we may look at something like Horizons PreK program. I really didn't want to jump to Saxon 1 - I think that will be way over his head at 4, but we're already doing Saxon K. So, I guess we'll see.

 

No, I do not think 3 is too early to start. You'll probably get a lot of flack about it, starting so young. I agree that you should make it child led, make sure you're incorporating a lot of arts and crafts and hands on activities and keep the schooltime relatively short and you should be fine. Listen to the verbal and physical messages that your child gives and you'll be fine. :)

[magistramom]

I'm anti preschool - even though I have a post grad degree in early childhood/child psych. So take this FWIW to you - it will be opinionated.

 

When faced with the results of a myriad of studies on learning, I came to realize it is all in readiness. Don't fret - you are actually doing a GREAT service for your child if you spend the time OBSERVING, READING, and EXPLORING as much of your world as possible. It is absolutely wonderful to see their interests and talent naturally emerge! Once you "see" those, you can cater your chosen formal curriculum to meet those needs.

 

If you want to follow a preschool program, a gentle one is Judith Oberly's SLOW AND STEADY, GET ME READY. You can supplement all you want around her simple, easy learning activities.

 

If you do anything formally, do phonics when the child is 4. Buy a book from the grocery store and work though it. Get through the first group of Bob books too. You'll be prepared for K at home or school.

 

If your child can count to 100, knows the 12 months in a song, and can sort of follow the days of the week, do simple addition and subtraction with manipulatives, he/she will be ready for first grade math in K.

 

You can't force giftedness... and you will realize when it is truly there, and make adjustments then.The key is knowing readiness, and each child is different. Did you know that...

 

You can spend 2 years doing reading flashcards with a toddler, but only two weeks with a 4 year old to get the same results?

 

It takes 4 solid intensive months to teach a four year old the concepts of a calendar system (seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years), but it takes two hours for an eight year old to grasp the concept?

 

Readiness. Look for cues and meet those needs rather than trying to instill a curriculum or ps standards that someone else thinks you need.

[8filltheheart]

I'm anti preschool - even though I have a post grad degree in early childhood/child psych. So take this FWIW to you - it will be opinionated.

 

LOL.....I am anti-preschool b/c I have undergraduate degrees in child psy and elementary ed! :)

 

Play, explore, imagine. My educational goals. :)

[give_me_a_latte]

I really appreciate all the varied replies!!! Great food for thought all around!!! We're doing some of the stuff over at letteroftheweek.com (more for me, than him at this point). He'll be two in November, but already knows (most of) his letters. He goes around the house "spelling" every word he sees. It's adorable! So we do a lot of reading...a lot!

 

I'll just keep at it..and see where his interests are in another year or so. I'm not going to push, but I don't want to slack either!! Thanks again!!

[Mama2Three]

You've already received a lot of great advice. I'll just add that Ruth Beechick has some books -- An Easy Start in Arithmetic, A Home Start in Reading, A Strong Start in Language -- that give ideas for building a strong foundation without special workbooks or materials. Simple things you can do in your daily living to build strong language and math skills. The books are supposed to be for grades k-3, but I think that you'd find them useful much sooner. They are small, thin books -- inexpensive -- and I think you can buy them as one book, too.

[Lovedtodeath]

I have not read through all of the posts. I can tell you we started at 3. Her interest started waning at 4 and a half, but her reading level kept going up. I would say she was at 2-3 grade level when she turned 5. I would definitely start really early before it becomes work. She loved the Abeka handwriting books at that age too. We mostly used games to teach reading and math, along with the Abeka writing.

 

If you start early, the child will have a good start. Do not start a full first grade load at 5 just because they are done with K work. My dd is just now able to handle more work, even though she had hit most K requirements before she was 4.

 

The good thing is... we can do spelling instead of reading, while a lot of first graders have to do both. She can do a lot independently because she can read all of the directions.

[Suzannah]

Before Five in a Row and Five in a Row are my favorite preschool and K guides. There are lots of free worksheets online too. I like http://www.learningpage.com/ but there are many, many good ones out there.

 

I would caution against doing too much too soon. It is so very exciting to see your child learn and grow, but it all goes by so fast! Remember to enjoy these early years and let your child learn to be excited about each new thing he learns.

 

Having said that, you may find that you have a child who begs to do school. DD has been like that. She probably colored a couple thousand coloring sheets, did a few hundred dot-to-dots and a few hundred more simple math worksheets in the last two years. But until this past year (K) I always saw them as something she did for fun. If she stopped in the middle of one or went a day or two without doing any school, it was no big deal. Even during K, my only rules were that she had to do "some" reading, "some" math and "some" handwriting practice every day. This approach has gone very well. DD has a different personality from DS, but I think first grade might have gone more smoothly for us with him if I had kept in mind that he was still just a little boy.

[Annie Laurie]

I just had to add that children have an innate curiosity and learn so much without having to do anything formal. My kids learned to read mostly on their own, and all kinds of other things, they will not sit there and not learn because you haven't started anything formal yet, you can't stop them from learning.

 

My 7 year old is currently on a presidents kick and has memorized the order of all the presidents, their names, their wives names, and their nicknames. Did we use a formal workbook or curriculum? Nope, he became interested when I bought a poster with all the presidents on it, he looked at it everyday and memorized their names and the order, then we got him a book on the presidents and he read and learned about the other things.

 

I believe wholeheartedly in the concept of strewing, we have interesting posters, art prints, maps, globes, rocks, gadgets, magnifying glasses, art supplies, books on many topics, and so on, all over the house. You will be amazed at how much they learn when their interest is sparked and there are a lot of varied materials available.

 

Someone earlier mentioned how much faster it is to teach an older child calendar skills as an example. I have found this to be so true in so many areas! When my 7 yr old was 5, I taped a paper with his address to the wall near his bed and he memorized it in no time. There are so many things we could have spent a lot of time and effort on earlier, and it might have resulted in frusturation for him, but waiting made it a breeze and a joy.

[Ellie]

"Preschool" is everthing that is done before first grade (or 6 years old). It begins at birth.

[Lovedtodeath]

I just had to add that children have an innate curiosity and learn so much without having to do anything formal. My kids learned to read mostly on their own, and all kinds of other things, they will not sit there and not learn because you haven't started anything formal yet, you can't stop them from learning.

 

My DD learned to read mostly on her own, but only after I had shown her most of the phonics sounds/rules. I did not do a formal program of sounding out words; she did not like sounding out, and still doesn't. It makes her feel embarrassed. But don't stop at short vowel sounds. There are so many words that cannot be read that way.

 

I believe wholeheartedly in the concept of strewing, we have interesting posters, art prints, maps, globes, rocks, gadgets, magnifying glasses, art supplies, books on many topics, and so on, all over the house. You will be amazed at how much they learn when their interest is sparked and there are a lot of varied materials available.

:iagree:So true! Mamaw was amazed at dds science knowledge even though she did not have anything formal. We bought a lot of science books, and she would ask for those at bedtime.

[In The Great White North]

[quoteI'm anti preschool - even though I have a post grad degree in early childhood/child psych. So take this FWIW to you - it will be opinionated.

]

 

I'm anti-preschool too, with a MEd in Elem Ed, for the following reasons:

 

1. Childhood only comes once and can never be recovered.

 

2. Children learn everything much faster, easier and more pleasantly when they are ready for it.

 

3. Children who are ready to read at 3, will read at 3 without doing any phonics or other instruction at all.

 

4. There have been numerous studies of the effectiveness of Headstart that basically said it only helped kids who were "under-stimulated" and even those differences evaporated by 4th grade. "Understimulated" turned out to mean stuck in an apartment, with a TV for their first six years, with little to no adult interaction - not a normal childhood.

 

If you really, really want to start school, try some games with educational benefits (that the child doesn't need to know about at all): War - greater than, less than; Rummy - sorting; almost all board games - counting; Yahtzee - counting, sorting, probability; rhymes and baby songs - phonics, sounds; etc.

 

I would definitely start really early before it becomes work.

It should never become work. When children are ready, it is a joy to learn. I hope my dc never lose it.

[Reya]

When faced with the results of a myriad of studies on learning, I came to realize it is all in readiness.

 

Too true! Teach them wherever they are. I'm amazed at the differences between the two I teach. The amount of effort that it would take one to do what the other did at the same age effortlessly is just staggering. I'm teaching them where they are without worrying about formal grade-level designations, and I'm not trying to hold either of them to any given standard. I don't really think of it as "preschool" or "kindergarten" or whatever--it's just "what's next that they're ready for," whatever that means.

[Reya]

3. Children who are ready to read at 3, will read at 3 without doing any phonics or other instruction at all.

 

Or they will begin to read spontaneously at two and develop a fairly decent sight-word list on their own before three, when you decide to start phonics--and have such a horribly ingrained preference for sight-word processing that they are essentially crippled as independent readers until substantial remediation occurs even as the child at 5 easily tests in the second half of fifth grade in reading skills on just about every measurement.

 

You better believe I'm kicking myself for not finding a fun way to make sure my DS was processing letter-by-letter instead of recognizing words back when he was two!

 

I really don't think that the two choices are a set "preschool program" or a total lack of any formal instruction. There's nothing magical about the age of 5 at which all children are suddenly ready for formal academic work, while none are ready before. Every child is on his or her timetable. Do what works for them. I'm really, really hostile toward arguments that are framed in the form of, "Well, you know, a kid in the top 1% will do great no matter what!" That's not meeting a kid where he is, and it's just as bad as inappropriately pushing a child to set your standards too low. When they are ready, they're ready--whenever that may be.

[rockermom]

"Preschool" is everthing that is done before first grade (or 6 years old). It begins at birth.

 

:iagree:

 

We read, play, play, play, read, play, play, play, talk, talk, talk, read, argue (he's starting to get an attitude :D ) and play and read and talk some more. He's fascinated by animals and the sounds they make right now, so I pretend to be a monkey and find pictures of monkeys and call him Mr. Monkey until I nearly hate monkeys. That's our "curriculum".

 

It's a full-time job.... that's what I keep telling DH.

 

I'm ready and anxious to begin asap, but anything formal will be added gradually and removed or phased out as needed when HE's ready. I assume that we will begin at 3 or 4 but I still hope that it is mostly play. I'm having too much fun for that to stop anytime soon.

[give_me_a_latte]

Thanks again for all this food for thought! I really appreciate reading the different opinions and ideas. I totally agree that childhood is a time for play...we do that...a lot!!! Yet I also believe in the idea that preschool is everything we do before age 6, and teaching through normal life activities.

 

I think part of this comes down to how the mom/teacher operates. For example, I was plotting out my Grad School courses/schedule when I was a Sophomore in college. I'm just a planner, and I like to see the big picture. So even though ds is only coming up on two, I'm already thinking about what's ahead......*I* just feel better knowing what direction I'm headed in.

 

Yet right now, today, we play...read....goof off. Because he *is* only 2!! But as he shows more and more readiness to proceed, we will. As others have said, there is nothing magical about the age of 5 or 6.......every child is ready at a different time.

[Carrie12345]

Thanks again for all this food for thought! I really appreciate reading the different opinions and ideas. I totally agree that childhood is a time for play...we do that...a lot!!! Yet I also believe in the idea that preschool is everything we do before age 6, and teaching through normal life activities.

 

I think part of this comes down to how the mom/teacher operates. For example, I was plotting out my Grad School courses/schedule when I was a Sophomore in college. I'm just a planner, and I like to see the big picture. So even though ds is only coming up on two, I'm already thinking about what's ahead......*I* just feel better knowing what direction I'm headed in.

 

Yet right now, today, we play...read....goof off. Because he *is* only 2!! But as he shows more and more readiness to proceed, we will. As others have said, there is nothing magical about the age of 5 or 6.......every child is ready at a different time.

 

I've basically let go of any long term planning with my kids.

 

We never did a formal pre-k curriculum, unless you count purchasing and fooling around a bit with Hooked On Phonics.

 

My dds consider themselves a kindergartener and a 1st grader b/c of their ages, but really they're both mostly doing 1st grade work right now, with the older gearing up to start 2nd grade math. Meanwhile, I really thought we were going to have to do a lot of basic phonics work with the younger, but her reading exploded over the summer.

 

There is absolutely no way I can even begin to predict what they'll be doing by the end of next year. Even my plans for the end of this year are in their rough draft stage. I'm somewhat confident in the *order we will be doing things, but definitely not the pace!

[8filltheheart]

As others have said, there is nothing magical about the age of 5 or 6.......every child is ready at a different time.

 

Actually, there is. ;) Normal brain maturity fits a bell curve. There are rare exceptions where childre have developed the mental processes taht allow reading at a very young age. There are those whose brains don't mature until 7-8+. However, the vast majority of children's brains develop at the normal pace where the mental processes required for reading develop around age 5-6.

 

Until their brain has matured enough to possess the necessary processing skills, all the "pre-school" work will accomplish no more than waiting and doing it rather quickly when they are older.

 

So 5-6 really is a "magical" average age.

[give_me_a_latte]

Actually, there is. ;) Normal brain maturity fits a bell curve.

 

I can see this, in general terms. Yet my daughter and I both were reading well before age 5. Not just phonetically either, but real reading. I was skipped out of K and put into 1st after 6 weeks because of my reading. (Lots of pros and cons to that approach, and I don't even know if school systems "skip" anymore).

 

Yet my husband wasn't reading well until 2nd or 3rd grade.

 

So I guess in my family, we're at the ends of the bell curve!! Haha!!

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm ready and anxious to begin asap, but anything formal will be added gradually and removed or phased out as needed when HE's ready. I assume that we will begin at 3 or 4 but I still hope that it is mostly play. I'm having too much fun for that to stop anytime soon.

 

Removed as needed is the key! Don't keep pushing if the child doesn't want it. No reason to staunchly avoid preschool either.

 

Or they will begin to read spontaneously at two and develop a fairly decent sight-word list on their own before three, when you decide to start phonics--and have such a horribly ingrained preference for sight-word processing that they are essentially crippled as independent readers until substantial remediation occurs even as the child at 5 easily tests in the second half of fifth grade in reading skills on just about every measurement.

 

I really don't think that the two choices are a set "preschool program" or a total lack of any formal instruction. There's nothing magical about the age of 5 at which all children are suddenly ready for formal academic work, while none are ready before. Every child is on his or her timetable. Do what works for them. I'm really, really hostile toward arguments that are framed in the form of, "Well, you know, a kid in the top 1% will do great no matter what!" That's not meeting a kid where he is, and it's just as bad as inappropriately pushing a child to set your standards too low. When they are ready, they're ready--whenever that may be.

 

I couldn't agree more.:iagree::iagree:

 

I have a couple of posts http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54397 that have games to play to learn phonics. Keeping it informal and fun!

[Lovedtodeath]

I'm anti preschool - even though I have a post grad degree in early childhood/child psych. So take this FWIW to you - it will be opinionated.

 

I'm anti-preschool too, with a MEd in Elem Ed, for the following reasons:

 

4. There have been numerous studies of the effectiveness of Headstart that basically said it only helped kids who were "under-stimulated" and even those differences evaporated by 4th grade. "Understimulated" turned out to mean stuck in an apartment, with a TV for their first six years, with little to no adult interaction - not a normal childhood.

 

I have taken these classes as well. I did not finish with my degree but the computers and psych courses that I quit in the middle of probably wouldn't have helped me here.

 

I believe that in this case the research that we learned about does not apply. This research was on children who were in a traditional preschool setting, not gently being shown things by a parent. Besides the totally different format for learning, traditional preschools teach a bunch of watered down drivel that should normally come up in everyday life like a letter per week, shapes and colors, marking the weather on the calendar, etc. This curriculum is not going to teach a child how to sound out words.

 

If you really, really want to start school, try some games with educational benefits (that the child doesn't need to know about at all): War - greater than, less than; Rummy - sorting; almost all board games - counting; Yahtzee - counting, sorting, probability; rhymes and baby songs - phonics, sounds; etc.

 

 

I totally agree. See my link in a previous post.

 

It should never become work, when they are ready it is a joy to learn.

When she lost interest in school from about 5-6 we stopped. We had that luxury because we started early and she did not end up behind as a result.

[Guest]

I told you this was a hot topic! :lol::lol::lol:

 

I think part of this comes down to how the mom/teacher operates. For example, I was plotting out my Grad School courses/schedule when I was a Sophomore in college. I'm just a planner, and I like to see the big picture. So even though ds is only coming up on two, I'm already thinking about what's ahead......*I* just feel better knowing what direction I'm headed in.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

Bottom line, listen to your child, which you are, and do what you want. God programs some of us to be very organized and planners. You are. I am. It's a gift and I believe I am called to use it as such. If I mess up my kids, (which I don't think I am) it's my fault and my responsibility. I appreciate the differences of opinion but still hold fast to what we do. I am enjoying my kids to the fullest. My kids are super creative and imaginative. My kids play in the dirt. My kids play with trains, legos, play-doh, have free time. It drives me up the wall when people think my son lives in a bottle because we do a tiny bit of school each day.

 

If it was taking me months on end to teach something to my son, I probably wouldn't. Like I said, he learned the abc song, letter recognition (both small & capital), their sounds (long, short and anything else) and to write them within about 4 months - when he was 2, just turning 3. I consider that fast. And this was spending 5-10 min. here and there a couple times a week. If it was stressful, we wouldn't be doing it.

 

So back to your OP - there are those who do a structured preschool and those who don't. I think you've gotten a pretty wide range of opinion here.

 

From one uber planner to another. :D

[The Governess]

I'm not sure when we actually started "preschool." DD4 has always been very interested in books, words, and letters. She learned all of her letter sounds when she was two. Soon after her third birthday a co-worker handed down a Hooked on Phonics set to me and as soon as it was in the house DD4 wanted nothing in the world more than to be able to read those books. We started "reading class" a couple months after her third birthday and she started reading three letter words during the first lesson.

 

Now that she is four we are doing "official" preschool - about an hour of scheduled activities a day, including some worksheets, read-alouds, art, music, etc. I'm not doing it because I think DD4 needs it developmentally, I'm doing it because she begs me for school. And quite honestly, she thrives on it. It is her favorite part of the day. I think that learning is an activity that gives her confidence, helps her feel in control of her environment, and helps her organize herself. So we do it.

 

All of that to say that, from my experience with my DD4, I think it's okay to start preschool at an early age if your child is excited about it and as long as it is child-led at this point. I'm of the mind that if my children want to learn something, I will not tell them no. On the other hand, I wouldn't force a structured preschool program on a child who wasn't into it. As long as you tailor your plans to fit your child's needs, interests, and personality, and as long as they think that school is fun, and that learning is exciting, I think you'll be fine.

 

Oh, and I already know that DD2's preschool, when and if we do it, will be completely different than what I'm doing with DD4. These girls are polar opposites. :lol:

[8filltheheart]

I think you are missing the point that a couple of us are trying to make. If someone wants to do "pre-school" with their child, then by all means go ahead. Your goals may or may not be achieved dependent on what they are.

 

Here is my point.

 

First, you are discussing very basic knowledge skills.

 

Teaching these skills follows 3 very basic steps to learning:

1-recognition (for example, within a group which one is letter A when told to find "A")

2-recall-(for example, pointing to letter A and them being able to give you its name)

3-memory-(being able to write the letter A without a visual cue)

 

Those are all very low level cognitive skills. They are very similar to learning names of shapes, colors, animals, etc.

 

It is a much different scenerio if you are discussing identifying words that begin with a certain sound. This is a mental processing skill. It develops at a younger age than identifying final letter sounds. Both of those processes are maturity issues. You can not "teach" the process. It is brain maturity. Both of those processes need to be "functioning" in order to decode words. The typical age of this stage is 5-6.

 

It is part of the difference between sight reading and phonetic reading. One is similar to the earlier example of recognition/recall. Sight reading uses different mental processing skills than decoding.

 

You think that 4 months isn't that long. It is all relative. My kids don't do pre-school and they typically master the alphabet from recall to memory in about 2 weeks. But they don't do it in separation from initial/final sounds, either. It is taught cohesively. They go from nothing to reading in under a month.

 

Does that mean it is the only way to go? No. Could we have done some of the steps earlier? Sure. For me, it is no big deal if they read early or not. It is one small cog in a world of learning.

 

The main issue that concerns me is when there is a belief that a child can be taught to read earlier by starting earlier or that reading can be mastered by age x. Starting early doesn't guarantee you anything of the sort. It simply means they may have mastered on piece of the puzzle. But until they are ready, progression is limited to the recognition aspects vs processing. When the processing "maturity" is reached is highly variable. You may get a jump on it by a few months by starting at age 3 and have them reading slightly before age 5. But then again, you may start at age 3 and not move to reading until age 7.

 

I think that is the point that several of us were trying to make.

[Lovedtodeath]

One thing I keep thinking is that many children beg for school and learn a ton at early ages (2-3) when they see older siblings doing it. For the oldest in the family, or an only child, they do not have the opportunity to see school happening, so it is up to the parent to initiate something, then follow the child's interest.

 

momof7, I cannot rep you again! Thank you for pointing that out for us.

[yslek]

Another über-planner here. :) (Admission: I often enjoy planning even more than the implementation of my plans. :D)

 

The older dc have had more of the formal preschool time, mainly because I was eager to get started with some academic-type stuff. We did Saxon K, the ETC primers, and 100 EZ lessons.

 

My dd, who will be 5 in October, has been begging to do schoolwork like her brothers.

 

I bought some HWT materials, and we've been building letters & slooowly working through the preschool workbook. We also started the ETC primers, and I recently started RightStart A with her. She has a few other workbooks (R&S preschool series, and Singapore Earlybird 1A as well as some cutting/coloring books.) I'm not as crazy about these, but she loves doing workbooks, and is always asking to do them. I also have AAS1 and we're slowly learning phonogram sounds in conjunction with ETC. I know that she could learn all of the phonograms in a matter of days rather than months if we waited, but there it is. :) We also read aloud regularly.

 

Other things she just picks up on from being around her brothers' schooling. She memorized a poem they were working on, and knows some Latin vocabulary. This was totally unprompted by me. :)

 

As far as readiness goes, there is no way she'd be ready for ps K at this stage. Her fine motor skills are developing, but she can't copy the letters in ETC, for example. (I write them, and she traces over them.) She's still pretty wild and wiggly, and that's fine. I don't think that any one "lesson" we do takes longer than 10 minutes.

 

I used to feel guilty when I read about other moms who "just" talk about concepts in everyday life, discussing math while cooking or grocery shopping together, etc. For me, it takes such an effort to remember to do all of those "natural learning" or "teachable moment" things. I do better with a plan.

 

A book I recently read (http://www.amazon.com/MotherStyles-Personality-Discover-Parenting-Strengths/dp/0738210455/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220546208&sr=8-1) uses Myers-Briggs typology to discuss how mothers differ in their approaches, and that each type has her own strengths and weaknesses. It's helped me accept my style, and not feel guilty for being what I'm not. (Not that I'm a finished product or don't need to improve myself!)

 

Oh my, this turned into quite a ramble. Hope there's something helpful in there. Gotta go feed the kids!

 

Kelsy

[dcjlkplus3]

My ds3.5 is going to be "doing preschool" this year. We went and got him the Comprehensive Curriculum at Costco for $11 or so. The girls ended up sharing one (the 5yo is finishing the one her big sis started). He wants to do school like his sisters. We'll see how it goes. Mostly I try and tell him puzzles (he loves them and does them great) and coloring are his school, but he sees the girls doing some workbooks and he wants to do that too.

 

All in all, I would make sure they get what they should know (colors, letters, shapes, etc) and not worry about a curriculum unless they really

want to *do* school. :D

[Guest]

I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to the other opinions given. Some of you obviously have way more experience - both with kids and education levels.

 

My only experience is that I have a 3 year old who begs to learn and is starting to read on his own. I don't know about where he should be for his age, just where he is. Did we inititiate it? Yes. Do I see a problem? No.

 

I just wanted to make sure and present this to the OP.

[give_me_a_latte]

Lord, have mercy...I will forever be remembered as the mom whose first post started such a long debate. !!

 

I think each Mom has her own idea of how/when children learn the big stuff. Whether we get this idea from formal education, our own experience, or what we've been informally told doesn't really matter. We're going to believe what we believe, until we believe otherwise!! And our beliefs will direct how we approach early education. So naturally, there will be very different approaches seen among us.

 

I know myself, and I am an "uber-planner" (love that term!). I love curriculum and lesson plans, not because I want to do sit-down-traditional school and want a program to script it for me. I love curriculum and lesson plans because I am a list maker from way back, a planner, a big-picture person. I like to have things laid out, so I can plan and ponder and research and gather.......and change my mind until I feel settled in my spirit about my choice. So will I do a Pre-K curriculum? Yea, I may....probably for phoncs, at the very least. Will I be a slave to it? No way.

 

Like yslek said, I do better with a plan. I'm used to teaching adults. I don't "naturally" think of all the teachable moments like some moms do. Having a curriculum/plan to guide ME is what I think will work best for ME. A framework....something to jiggle my memory while we go about our daily activities.

[Guest]

Lord, have mercy...I will forever be remembered as the mom whose first post started such a long debate. !!

 

 

 

He he...come over to the general board and take a look at the political threads. This is tame.

 

You've been given a lot of good information - good luck!

[The Governess]

I can see this, in general terms. Yet my daughter and I both were reading well before age 5........

So I guess in my family, we're at the ends of the bell curve!! Haha!!

 

Same thing with my DD4 and I!

 

It is a much different scenerio if you are discussing identifying words that begin with a certain sound. This is a mental processing skill. It develops at a younger age than identifying final letter sounds. Both of those processes are maturity issues. You can not "teach" the process. It is brain maturity. Both of those processes need to be "functioning" in order to decode words. The typical age of this stage is 5-6.

 

The main issue that concerns me is when there is a belief that a child can be taught to read earlier by starting earlier or that reading can be mastered by age x. Starting early doesn't guarantee you anything of the sort. It simply means they may have mastered on piece of the puzzle. But until they are ready, progression is limited to the recognition aspects vs processing. When the processing "maturity" is reached is highly variable. You may get a jump on it by a few months by starting at age 3 and have them reading slightly before age 5. But then again, you may start at age 3 and not move to reading until age 7.

 

I think that is the point that several of us were trying to make.

 

I can see that the typical age is 5 or 6 for the decoding process. But there are some kids, like my DD4, who begin decoding much earlier than that. My DD4 has been decoding for a year already. She learned phonetically and she has always sounded words out. I understand from what you are saying that it is not typical (and maybe it's actually very rare). But that's why I think it is so important to base what you do with your kids on your own observations of them, and on their specific interests and skill sets. I guess it wouldn't have been a big deal for her to wait until she was five to read on her own, but she enjoys it so much that I'm glad she can do it.

 

I totally understand and agree with and respect the point you are making. :001_smile: I completely agree that we shouldn't expect our kids to perform beyond their abilities, and that it is important to know when these abilities typically surface. And I'm definitely not a child development expert; I'm just speaking from my own experience with my daughter. I'm just saying that I wouldn't want to limit a child who *is* ready to master a task early, if they are showing a strong interest in mastering it.

[Peri]

I would play it by ear aiming for him to start 1st grade at 6. I would start with ABC's at 3, although mine is 2 1/2 and is very interested in ABC's. When he get familiar with the alphabet I would familiarise him with the sounds and then move on from there. Same thing with numbers and writing. You start with 1-5 and getting him comfortable with just holding a pencil right. Just start where the child is ready and move on from there. Keep in mind that PreK and K are not mandatory, in the PS view anyway, so when kids enter school, 1st grade is the first serious grade.

[Mommy22alyns]

Sylvia goes to a MDO preschool 2 days a week for 4 hours each day. Becca did the same thing at ages 3 and 4, and I'm really happy with it. At home, I like to just chain her to the table in the basement and force her to recite letters and numbers for her Cheerio ration. :tongue_smilie: 'Cause my three year old is such a malleable and easily swayed child, not stubborn in the least. :rolleyes:

 

 

The MDO preschool part is true, but the rest is sarcasm. I don't push the girls, I facilitate them and follow their readiness.

[Brenda in FL]

What age did you start using more solid curriculum? For example, SSRW, or HWT? Obviously, you went by readiness signs!!

 

I'm trying to pre-pre-plan when we'll do certain things, and if we start K the Fall he turns 5.....that would put his preschool year starting the Fall he turns 4.

 

So what if he's ready earlier? We do preschool starting at age 3-ish.....and do two years of preschool? Or just start K level at age 4? Oi!

 

Yes, I'm overthinking. Would anyone mind sharing what they did and when for preschool? I'd appreciate it!!

 

Most "formal" work was started when my children would have been termed Kindergarteners per the school system (in the fall after they turned 5 years old). However, I did begin reading using 100EZ lessons at sometime the year before that for two kids. Completing the book overlapped into the beginning of their K year. The third child had a December birthday, he just started K, 6 minths later age wise than his siblings. He started reading when he turned 5 a little later than the others - but its been easier!

 

Reading at 4 years old is all we did formally for "pre-school" During kindergarten, I add handwriting (Zaner-bloser) and midyear will begin Spelling Workout. We do math activities based on the lessons and meetings in Saxon 1 adding math-related picture books and a math game day for math - no worksheets! They also get to tag along with history and science, and their involvement is purley based on their interest as far as doing coloring sheets, projects. They are usually playing in the same room when we are reading, so they do pick up the content.

 

I am a firm believer that less is more for the typical "pre-school" years. They pick up so much just in your day-to-day interactions with them that you don't need to have a formal curriculum for them.

[Kay in Cal]

Normal brain maturity fits a bell curve....

 

So 5-6 really is a "magical" average age.

 

 

But bell curves are only applicable to entire POPULATIONS, not individual behavior. That means that it is perhaps more likely in general that a child would be ready to read at 5 or 6, but your family situation/genetics/enviroment may or may not fall into the middle of that curve. That's one of the reasons homeschooling is so wonderful--the kids at the ends of the curve aren't forgotten as individuals.

 

My older read at 2. Maybe that's early on the population curve--but both dh and I also read at 2. My younger son is 4 and is still reading beginner books, but some people would say that is young. We're starting kindergarten with ds4 because with the older one we kind of missed the boat. We never taught him phonics, etc--it was all water under the bridge by the time we started and had to skip a LOT of levels to keep up with him.

 

My point is... what works for you works for you. Statistical averages are not useful in diagnosing the needs of individuals.

[8filltheheart]

But Kay, I never stated anywhere that children didn't learn to read at 2. FWIW, the children that do read at age 2 fit the bell curve, just as the kids that don't learn until 8. Those are the outer limits. The reality is that if you took a poll of all the readers on this board, the median age of reading is going to be in the 5ish range. There will be a very few posters like you who have readers at 2. There will be a very few posters who have readers at 8-9. You will have larger numbers in the 4ish and late 6ish/7 age.

 

My only point was to share that age of exposure to teaching ABCs, etc isn't going to have a direct relational outcome to independent reading. It isn't a direct correlation. Some kids are in those outer regions. Your child is in the younger extreme. Someone else reading this thread may have a child in the upper extreme. My posts are meant to be very generic b/c I have no idea who is reading them. A parent should not feel like they are failing educationally if their child cannot read at 5 even if they have known there letters since 3. It isn't necessarily negligence in teaching. It may simply be *readiness.* Readiness is a real phenomenon......not a hypothetical.

[Kay in Cal]

I agree with you there. I just think that so often professional educators talk about "age appropriateness" as if everyone's child MUST be taught at a certain time. Trust me, I got a lot of "no, don't start school so early" advice back when my son was 2 and 3--a lot of it here on the boards. We did wait to do anything formal until he was 4, but for HIM the moment had passed for those basics. In retrospect, I think I should have gone with my gut and done phonics when he was a young 2--but pretty much everyone said it was "too early", and I didn't want to be a "pushy mom". Since then I've realized that I'm chasing my child, not pushing him.

 

I agree that all kids have their own readyness--I just wanted to remind people that just because MOST kids read at a certain time doesn't mean that thier own child will. Could be earlier, could be later--the only normal that matters is thier own normal.

[Lovedtodeath]

My only point was to share that age of exposure to teaching ABCs, etc isn't going to have a direct relational outcome to independent reading. It isn't a direct correlation. A parent should not feel like they are failing educationally if their child cannot read at 5 even if they have known there letters since 3. It isn't necessarily negligence in teaching. It may simply be *readiness.* Readiness is a real phenomenon......not a hypothetical.

 

I agree with you there. I just think that so often professional educators talk about "age appropriateness" as if everyone's child MUST be taught at a certain time. We did wait to do anything formal until he was 4, but for HIM the moment had passed for those basics. Since then I've realized that I'm chasing my child, not pushing him.

 

Could be earlier, could be later--the only normal that matters is their own normal.

 

Wow! I think these two posts have really hit the nail on the head. There is no magical age to start school. Some hit readiness early and others late, and we cannot tell the OP whate age is appropriate.

[Lovedtodeath]

What age did you start using more solid curriculum? For example, SSRW, or HWT? Obviously, you went by readiness signs!!

 

I'm trying to pre-pre-plan when we'll do certain things, and if we start K the Fall he turns 5.....that would put his preschool year starting the Fall he turns 4.

 

So what if he's ready earlier? We do preschool starting at age 3-ish.....and do two years of preschool? Or just start K level at age 4? Oi!

 

Yes, I'm overthinking. Would anyone mind sharing what they did and when for preschool? I'd appreciate it!!

 

First off... Please teach your child numbers from 0-9, not 1-5 or 1-10. Place value is based on 0-9 and so much of math deals with place value.

 

Back to answering more of your questions... We started with DD at 3, and she loved it. I have tried Abeka, TWTM and MFW for preschool, and some of SL K (history, read alouds, science), and the A2 demo disk, as well as Horizons K and a ton of generic Walmart and bookstore preschool books (I did Preschool with daycare kids and inherited curriculum from SIL). What I plan to do with Jake is to use MFW K for early math and a mixture of MFW and A2 for reading (using the vertical phonics approach). I will use this as early as he needs it. If we are done with this before he is 5 I will do the integrated science, bible, math lessons from MFW K taking our time, not following a schedule. If he needs more phonics curriculum I will look into SWR or WP LA. I will start MUS alpha for K math. So there's some of the direction you were looking for.:)

 

P.S. Now I am planning on this great link from Reya for my phonics program, (I won't have to bounce around!:D) but with letter magnets, puzzle pieces and scrabble tiles at first, and of course, not reviewing CVC words as much as in this book, but trucking along to get to all the rules as quickly as possible.

[Reya]

It is a much different scenerio if you are discussing identifying words that begin with a certain sound. This is a mental processing skill. It develops at a younger age than identifying final letter sounds. Both of those processes are maturity issues. You can not "teach" the process. It is brain maturity. Both of those processes need to be "functioning" in order to decode words. The typical age of this stage is 5-6.

 

It is part of the difference between sight reading and phonetic reading. One is similar to the earlier example of recognition/recall. Sight reading uses different mental processing skills than decoding.

 

You think that 4 months isn't that long. It is all relative. My kids don't do pre-school and they typically master the alphabet from recall to memory in about 2 weeks. But they don't do it in separation from initial/final sounds, either. It is taught cohesively. They go from nothing to reading in under a month.

 

Does that mean it is the only way to go? No. Could we have done some of the steps earlier? Sure. For me, it is no big deal if they read early or not. It is one small cog in a world of learning.

 

The main issue that concerns me is when there is a belief that a child can be taught to read earlier by starting earlier or that reading can be mastered by age x. Starting early doesn't guarantee you anything of the sort. It simply means they may have mastered on piece of the puzzle. But until they are ready, progression is limited to the recognition aspects vs processing. When the processing "maturity" is reached is highly variable. You may get a jump on it by a few months by starting at age 3 and have them reading slightly before age 5. But then again, you may start at age 3 and not move to reading until age 7.

 

I think that is the point that several of us were trying to make.

 

Yes, the processing maturity is highly variable, but what that means is that there are *some* kids who are FLUENT readers at two while most kids can just start be taught systematically starting at perhaps late 3 and will only be reading on a first or second grade level at K-age.

 

If you have a child who is not ready to break down sounds at 3 and really do prereading, you'll end up only a little ahead. If the kid likes it, though, there's no harm in it--you're just not going to get amazing results.

 

OTOH, if you have a child who's really ready to read at 3 and you decide to teach them systematically through phonics (which I REALLY, REALLY recommend to head off problems later!!!), you could have a Ker who reads on the 4th, 6th, or 8th-grade level. Or they could figure it out themselves and be reading at that level without any formal instruction at all!

 

The same amount of effort goes into the two kids, but the outcomes are really different because the kids are different.

 

That said, and somewhat OT........................................

 

I do recommend pushing the developmentally delayed child as much as is practical to get him to achieve as close to grade level as possible. That's what early intervention and therapy are--"pushing" a non-ready kid under another name. This has to do with the difference in quality of life between an adult who can read at the 6th grade level (who has been "pushed" like crazy with very slow progress) and one who can read at the 3rd grade level (who has been taught only as they possessed the intellectual maturity to handle something). Yes, it's pushing. Yes, it's exhausting and often frustrating because the effort in vs. results are pretty low by "normal" standards. But it's also necessary to make the difference between a fully independent, fully employable adult and one who isn't.

 

If you're putting in tons of effort with little to show for it, you have to ask what's your goal. Why's it so important to do this now? What will be the consequences if we wait?

 

For most kids, the consequences of waiting for maturity are very small. For those who are LD/DD/MR/etc., though, sometimes the consequences can be huge. You have to decide your own situation!

[Aloha2U]

I just started K4 (preschool) this week with my one and only ds(4) - using formal curriculum. I have materials for K4 as well as other homeschool materials and links on my blog... you're welcome to take a look and see if there is anything that can help you with your planning.

 

:001_smile: Melissa

[JoyfulMama_Karen]

I'm glad to read that some people start their children earlier. There is another thread about starting them later, but DS, at 4, is very, very ready for something, so we are doing a K program. He is a February baby who should technically be starting pre-K, but we are going to see how this year goes and reassess if we will do another K year or just start him in 1st.

[lilbean05]

Oh, this is an old thread, but certainly relevant given we are nearing the start of the traditional new school year!

 

My 3 year old, turning 4 in August, recently started with a K curriculum this year. We have the intent of starting 1st ish type things next year when she turns 5. We realize we are starting early, but is is all very self-driven on her part. Last night she read us the first chapter of the first book in the Magic Treehouse series and asked what gripped means when the boy climbs the ladder, so she can read, but doesn't always GET what she is reading, KWIM? Her education will probably be a very big mishmash of different grade levels, which is a HUGE reason why we are choosing to homeschool. We are doing Little Hearts for His Glory with Horizons 1 math, so it seems we COULD start 1st grade now if we wanted, but the history and science aspects of LHFHG are right on par with her learning levels and there is no way we will be doing SOTW until she is in no kidding real first grade age. She will be all sorts of mixed grade levels1

 

All of this is to say, you probably will know when you want to start because you child is going to seem ready to start. If you start too early, you will know because your child will be bored, frustrated, struggling, etc. If you start "too late" (which I am not sure you can really do), your child will zip right through the lessons to the point where he/she is being challenged, and you will be right where you need to be. So in the end, my thoughts are: No worries! It will all work itself out no matter when you start. :)

Edited July 10, 2009 by lilbean05