Are my expectations to high?

[mommyx4]

I have 13 year old twin boys.  We have homeschooled for quite awhile, but these last two years with hormones and such have been extremely hard.  We have tried to give them a bit more freedom and in turn expected more of them.  In homeschooling, we set expectations and if they are not met, they can't do something they wish to do.  Tonight, both boys are invited to a mystery dinner.  They are VERY excited about his.  On Monday, we talked about the expectations this week so that they would be able to attend the dinner.  The expectations were that they completed their homeschooling in a timely fashion, did their chores, and complete a speech they needed to do for an oratorical festival.  Well, it's 10am on Friday, one of the boys decided it was a wise use of his time to spend 1 hour (yes, 1hour) on the toilet reading a book.  He hasn't started his schoolwork for the day, he is just now starting his chores and his speech is no where near completion.  I was angery and told him there was no way he would finish to be able to go tonight.  Everyone is tense in the house now and it's not making for a lovely day.  I want them to be able to go, the group is counting on them to go because they are part of a plot, but how do I let him go when I know he won't get done and if he does get done, he will probably just rush through his work not doing his best so that he can get done?

 

By the way, this is a constant battle in the house.  They have an agenda each day that I put on the board.  They know the flow of the day.  I don't set times, but we generally do things around a specific time, but this one twin just can't get motivated to do anything, unless it's what he wants to do.  I've tried to motivate with fun things (like the event tonight) and it just doesn't seem to work.  He's running around now upset and cranky because he's so far behind.  I do believe in natural consequences, but them not going tonight will affect the dinner.  What do I do?

 

Any tips on how to get them motivated to do their work in a timely fashion?  I was so angry this morning, I told him he has to bring a timer into the toilet from now on and set it for 10 minutes..lol!!

 

 

[lllll]

..

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Holding the event hostage unless he checks off all the boxes is not the same as "motivating him with fun things."

 

Really, you were robbing them of the joy of anticipation by playing the part of Cinderella's stepmother. The treatment she gave Cinderella was only partially about the Sisyphean tasks. The other part was about controlling all the emotions and all the access to fun things that nobody else in the kingdom had the slightest notion of depriving their sons and daughters. We know that's true because even the stepmother's other children were permitted to happily take it as read that they were going.

 

You might think it's ridiculous for me to compare this dinner with a royal ball, or to compare your parenting decisions with a fairy tale. You might think I'm saying parents should permissively allow their entitled children any treat or outing they want, no matter their behavior. Regarding the latter -- I don't believe that, but I do believe in allowing joyful moments away from home and in training boys in good habits, just not in tying the two together. As to the former -- if the glass slipper fits....

 

My third eldest son, who is 14, has had a lot of trouble with paying attention. He has ADHD. When he began to get more active in outside activities and social events a few years ago, we spent a LOT of time on executive function skills. For every minute that he worked on staying focused and getting everything ready, I spent three to five minutes helping him with reminders, supervision, and scaffolding.

 

Nothing could derail him like a special event coming up at the end of the week. He'd have reminders posted all over the house, alarm clocks set, yet stil fail at getting everything done on time. And you know what? I couldn't honestly say, "Well, it looks like you tried your best, so you may go." Nooo. actually, it looked like he hadn't tried at all. But there he was, standing there with tears in his eyes, trying to articulate his big question: "Why is this so hard for me? Why is it that the more I want it the less I can do it?"

 

I sent him to the mystery dinner. I sent him to the royal ball. I hugged him and said, "You didn't complete your work. You are frustrated. You keep using the word 'fail.' You think you don't deserve to go have fun, but I'm telling you that you are special, you are loved, and this world holds happy and beautiful things for you. We will keep working on your skills. You will get there, long before you grow up. But for now you need to get ready to go, and have a great time."

 

Did I go into my bedroom and cry, even despair a little, at his failures? Yes. It's not ok for a boy to leave work unfinished, etc. But when a child can't or doesn't do age appropriate responsible things he needs help, not condemnation. He's going to make colossal blunders, whether I love and help him through it or whether I strong arm him through it with carrots and sticks. So the question becomes, "What do I want my relationship with this son to be?" I choose to be on his side. It makes all the difference.

 

Practically speaking, my boy has done very well and overcome the worst of it through environmental controls and behavioral training of himself - habits, routines, etc. He didn't need medication. He succeeds socially now, and can even enjoy and do well in Civil Air Patrol, which has demands, deadlines, high expectations. If you'd like we can talk about the ways homeschool moms can support and teach boys with ADHD, and how to keep the relationship good when your feel pushed to the brink, lots of parents here have that experience.

 

My son and I are so grateful for homeschooling because it gives us time to work on these things, while minimizing outside pressures and distractions. We keep the joy in the journey. We work hard but we take every opportunity for respite and fun, because that's a life.

[Miss Mousie]

I am only going to address today.

 

(1)  It's 11:00.  It seems that should be plenty of time for you to enroll him in a one-day Boot Camp - which means you micromanage today very intensely in an effort to make sure he completes his work and can go to the dinner.  Watch him work, give him 1000 reminders to get back on task, use a timer, check his work as he goes instead of all at the end so you can stop mistakes when (or before) they happen.  Bring him snacks and water periodically.

 

(2)  It sounds like only one of the boys is having trouble today ... so that would mean one boy goes to the dinner and the other (assuming he doesn't get everything finished in time) does not.

 

Option 1 strikes me as much less harsh and definitely the way to go.  Neither of you will like the intense hovering but you need to make it clear that you are rooting for him and trying your very best, every thing you can think of, to make it possible for him to enjoy the outing.  The only things you can't do are work for him and learn for him.

 

 

[Penguin]

If my kid was part of the plot, I would not have tied the mystery dinner to the work. It derails the experience of others.

 

But I am the type who always hated it when a parent would call me and tell me that their kiddo had been naughty this morning, and now the playdate must be canceled. And then I get to get off the phone and disappoint my kiddo. Who had just cleaned his room to prepare for the playdate.

 

ETA: but if I had already made that "threat" maybe I would explain that I had rethought the situation. And work out together when, over the weekend, he could finish the work.

[Miss Mousie]

So, my first post addressed only today because I know you want two things: to let them to go to the dinner, AND to stick to the consequence you chose.  I definitely understand not wanting to take back what you said.

 

Going forward, I think Tibbie and ksva have given great advice for you (and me!) to chew on.  These boys - well, mine, at least - want so much to be instant men, while at the same time wanting to remain little cuddled boys.  It can be so hard to know how to help them cross the bridge....

 

 

[lllll]

.

[mommyx4]

Holding the event hostage unless he checks off all the boxes is not the same as "motivating him with fun things."

 

Really, you were robbing them of the joy of anticipation by playing the part of Cinderella's stepmother. The treatment she gave Cinderella was only partially about the Sisyphean tasks. The other part was about controlling all the emotions and all the access to fun things that nobody else in the kingdom had the slightest notion of depriving their sons and daughters. We know that's true because even the stepmother's other children were permitted to happily take it as read that they were going.

 

You might think it's ridiculous for me to compare this dinner with a royal ball, or to compare your parenting decisions with a fairy tale. You might think I'm saying parents should permissively allow their entitled children any treat or outing they want, no matter their behavior. Regarding the latter -- I don't believe that, but I do believe in allowing joyful moments away from home and in training boys in good habits, just not in tying the two together. As to the former -- if the glass slipper fits....

 

My third eldest son, who is 14, has had a lot of trouble with paying attention. He has ADHD. When he began to get more active in outside activities and social events a few years ago, we spent a LOT of time on executive function skills. For every minute that he worked on staying focused and getting everything ready, I spent three to five minutes helping him with reminders, supervision, and scaffolding.

 

Nothing could derail him like a special event coming up at the end of the week. He'd have reminders posted all over the house, alarm clocks set, yet stil fail at getting everything done on time. And you know what? I couldn't honestly say, "Well, it looks like you tried your best, so you may go." Nooo. actually, it looked like he hadn't tried at all. But there he was, standing there with tears in his eyes, trying to articulate his big question: "Why is this so hard for me? Why is it that the more I want it the less I can do it?"

 

I sent him to the mystery dinner. I sent him to the royal ball. I hugged him and said, "You didn't complete your work. You are frustrated. You keep using the word 'fail.' You think you don't deserve to go have fun, but I'm telling you that you are special, you are loved, and this world holds happy and beautiful things for you. We will keep working on your skills. You will get there, long before you grow up. But for now you need to get ready to go, and have a great time."

 

Did I go into my bedroom and cry, even despair a little, at his failures? Yes. It's not ok for a boy to leave work unfinished, etc. But when a child can't or doesn't do age appropriate responsible things he needs help, not condemnation. He's going to make colossal blunders, whether I love and help him through it or whether I strong arm him through it with carrots and sticks. So the question becomes, "What do I want my relationship with this son to be?" I choose to be on his side. It makes all the difference.

 

Practically speaking, my boy has done very well and overcome the worst of it through environmental controls and behavioral training of himself - habits, routines, etc. He didn't need medication. He succeeds socially now, and can even enjoy and do well in Civil Air Patrol, which has demands, deadlines, high expectations. If you'd like we can talk about the ways homeschool moms can support and teach boys with ADHD, and how to keep the relationship good when your feel pushed to the brink, lots of parents here have that experience.

 

My son and I are so grateful for homeschooling because it gives us time to work on these things, while minimizing outside pressures and distractions. We keep the joy in the journey. We work hard but we take every opportunity for respite and fun, because that's a life.

I really do love what you've said here and the advice is spot on. I guess I'm just so frustrated because I'm not wired that way. Him not doing what he needs to do when he needs to do it interferes with my getting my things done as well because I have to go back and grade things later. As for the extra activities and hobbies, they are non existent right now because he dawdles so much in the day, he's not done with schoolwork until 5pm. It has nothing to do with the amount of schoolwork because his twin is done already at 1pm. I have tried to motivate with extra hobbies or things that interest him and they do, but when it gets down to the brass tacks of it all, he can't stay on track long enough to get done to do those things. I want him to succeed. I don't want schoolwork to be all day until dinner time. I want him to be able to play outside and build or what eve,but he just can't get it together. I can not sit with him all day. I have 3 other children that need me too...maybe I should just put him in school as it's clearly evident I'm the one to blame here.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I really do love what you've said here and the advice is spot on. I guess I'm just so frustrated because I'm not wired that way. Him not doing what he needs to do when he needs to do it interferes with my getting my things done as well because I have to go back and grade things later. As for the extra activities and hobbies, they are non existent right now because he dawdles so much in the day, he's not done with schoolwork until 5pm. It has nothing to do with the amount of schoolwork because his twin is done already at 1pm. I have tried to motivate with extra hobbies or things that interest him and they do, but when it gets down to the brass tacks of it all, he can't stay on track long enough to get done to do those things. I want him to succeed. I don't want schoolwork to be all day until dinner time. I want him to be able to play outside and build or what eve,but he just can't get it together. I can not sit with him all day. I have 3 other children that need me too...maybe I should just put him in school as it's clearly evident I'm the one to blame here.

 

:grouphug: 

 

I'm on my way out the door but I'll be back to answer the rest of what you've said here. But I must say something about the bolded part --

 

Nobody thinks you should put him in school. If he can't pay attention to school and organizational stuff for one teacher, with understandable and age-appropriate curriculum, how in the world will he do it in the anxiety jungle of public school? Lots of teachers, lots of homework, tons of papers, and too much to work with, everything has such high stakes attached...no. You are still the best one to help him over these hurdles and learn to handle it all himself eventually. I truly believe that, having BTDT myself.

 

[73349]

Some kids need shorter-term goals. He might not be ready for "Do these eight things today," even if his twin is. He might need to hear, "Morning snack is at 10. Do one subject before then. If you do two subjects with excellence by then, I will have something awesome to reward you." And then if he can do it, rocky road ice cream appears! And if not, no harm done; make no mention of it (because shame or guilt will be counterproductive). Set another goal for lunchtime.

 

My absolutely awesome BFF is nearing 40, and she still has to motivate herself that way. "Finish X before Y happens and I can __________!" I personally need a written list and do pretty well with "beat the clock" challenges. If I feel like I have a ton of time, and/or that the list is overwhelming, it's terribly hard to get started.

 

It is kind of a disaster to tell him, "You have to do X before Y so we can Z," if *you* need Z to happen. The outcome has to be an issue for him, not you or other people. What if you are only available to teach him/grade certain subjects at certain times? Maybe he has homework on the weekend, or maybe he gets an early wake-up call the next morning to finish his work while the other kids are snuggled under the covers. At our house, screen time before dinner is contingent on having finished schoolwork.

[HS Mom in NC]

Group Events/Group Responsibilities

 

If the group is counting on them and it will affect the group not having them there, then it shouldn't have been tied to schoolwork.  It should be a commitment to the group so individual choices in an unrelated thing (school work) should have nothing to do with it. I've been part of the people in charge of such things with kids’ groups and I would be really upset by a parent not allowing a child to fulfill their roll because of schoolwork. If you knew beforehand your child has a hard time getting motivated and getting things done, it should've been doubly true that tying a group event where he has responsibilities to completing schoolwork would likely be a problem. 

 

Teaching Time Management Skills

 

Has he managed to consistently work independently for a day and complete his work on time?  If not, I wouldn't give him more than a day's work until he's got the hang of it.  When he has been consistently managing daily work for a while, I'd give him a week's work.  You have to learn to walk before you can run. 

I would teach the thinking required to manage time because not every kid is going to figure it out on his or her own.  Teaching by the day I'd ask things like, "How many assignments are there for today?  How much time is there before today's deadline?  About how many assignments per hour will you need to get done to meet your deadline?  About how many assignments is that before lunch?  About how many assignments is that after lunch? Which assignments will probably take longer?  Which ones will probably take less time? What makes more sense: doing the longer assignments first or last?  Why does that make more sense? Does it make more sense to assume things will take longer than expected and that there will be challenges you didn't think of or does it make more sense to assume nothing will ever go wrong or take longer than expected?  Why did you answer the way you did?" None of these questions is rhetorical (in the modern sense.) I would expect the child to answer each out loud using examples from past experiences. Adapt these questions as needed when it's time to transition to weekly assignments. I'd start by checking progress at mid-day each day and then work up to a daily check when the week long independence starts.  When that was going well for a while I'd do a mid-week check or something like that until it was going well regularly.

 

If your child has no sense of time (I have a nephew like that) it may be important to ask questions about that too.  "How long do you think it should take to _________________?" If his answers are way off, then he needs his thinking corrected. If he has no internal sense of time (I lost mine for about 6 months after a C-section.) He may need to have time keeping devices around and make a habit of referring to them. You may even want to do a few very simple experiments where you child guesses how much time has passed.  Make it like a game.  You might be surprised by his answers. The day I realized I had lost my sense of time I was shocked to see 3 hours had passed and I would've sworn on the life of my children it couldn't have been more than half an hour.

 

If your child has a hard time with prioritizing, he may need to be taught those explicitly too.  He needs help articulating what is the most important things and why there’s the most important.  He needs to be able to choose what the next more important thing is and why.  People who see everything as equally important are usually unable to focus or complete anything. They have a hard time saying no to something because they can’t find a good reason to.   They have to be taught that it's OK to ignore the second most important thing (and things of even less importance) and everything else while working on the most important thing.

  Some people cannot keep lists in their heads.  I can't.  They may need a short list written down in order of priority where they can see it.  If they write the list, it's better than being handed a list.  They need to be the ones thinking about what goes where and why with some guidance and supervision.  They may need to think through a flow of the day and not have someone tell them one.  Some flexibility is necessary here.

 

Personality and culture can play in here.  Our culture is not big on teaching people to suck it up and act contrary to their feelings or desires.  Sometimes we just have to do that in the short term to get what we want in the long term.  Some personalities don't automatically understand that either.  They are so desire/impulse/emotion driven that they need to be told explicitly that there are times to put those things aside and do what they don't really want to for a while.

 

I'm not saying all of this will fundamentally change him.  My oldest is not a natural born time manager and the last year of homeschooling her was really hard, in large part to her time management issues, but she's doing much better than her early teen years. She knows she needs deadlines so she finds ways to create them for herself and she's better at prioritizing.

[kathy_overman]

:bigear: 

 

MoommyX4

 

I am in the exact same spot.  One gets done by 12pm, and the other dawdles until 5pm every day!  I too have so often thought, I should put him in school. I would love for school to solve his problems instead of me having to deal with him day in/day out!.

 

I don't have words of wisdom, as I too am trying to figure this out.  I love/hate the advice given here, as I believe it is 'spot on' but very hard to do.  I struggle understanding how my different children need different things.  In my case, my younger much more immature son works much better than the older kiddo.  That I have to hold my almost 13 year old's hand drives me crazy.  However, the advice about him in school, again, is accurate. He flounders in a group setting as well.  I have to remember that what I sacrifice today by teaching him how to work, will pay off sometime down the road.

 

Keep the great words of wisdom coming for those of us stuck in the trenches with tween/teen kiddos struggling to get 'it' done.

[8circles]

Holding the event hostage unless he checks off all the boxes is not the same as "motivating him with fun things."

 

Really, you were robbing them of the joy of anticipation by playing the part of Cinderella's stepmother. The treatment she gave Cinderella was only partially about the Sisyphean tasks. The other part was about controlling all the emotions and all the access to fun things that nobody else in the kingdom had the slightest notion of depriving their sons and daughters. We know that's true because even the stepmother's other children were permitted to happily take it as read that they were going.

 

You might think it's ridiculous for me to compare this dinner with a royal ball, or to compare your parenting decisions with a fairy tale. You might think I'm saying parents should permissively allow their entitled children any treat or outing they want, no matter their behavior. Regarding the latter -- I don't believe that, but I do believe in allowing joyful moments away from home and in training boys in good habits, just not in tying the two together. As to the former -- if the glass slipper fits....

 

My third eldest son, who is 14, has had a lot of trouble with paying attention. He has ADHD. When he began to get more active in outside activities and social events a few years ago, we spent a LOT of time on executive function skills. For every minute that he worked on staying focused and getting everything ready, I spent three to five minutes helping him with reminders, supervision, and scaffolding.

 

Nothing could derail him like a special event coming up at the end of the week. He'd have reminders posted all over the house, alarm clocks set, yet stil fail at getting everything done on time. And you know what? I couldn't honestly say, "Well, it looks like you tried your best, so you may go." Nooo. actually, it looked like he hadn't tried at all. But there he was, standing there with tears in his eyes, trying to articulate his big question: "Why is this so hard for me? Why is it that the more I want it the less I can do it?"

 

I sent him to the mystery dinner. I sent him to the royal ball. I hugged him and said, "You didn't complete your work. You are frustrated. You keep using the word 'fail.' You think you don't deserve to go have fun, but I'm telling you that you are special, you are loved, and this world holds happy and beautiful things for you. We will keep working on your skills. You will get there, long before you grow up. But for now you need to get ready to go, and have a great time."

 

Did I go into my bedroom and cry, even despair a little, at his failures? Yes. It's not ok for a boy to leave work unfinished, etc. But when a child can't or doesn't do age appropriate responsible things he needs help, not condemnation. He's going to make colossal blunders, whether I love and help him through it or whether I strong arm him through it with carrots and sticks. So the question becomes, "What do I want my relationship with this son to be?" I choose to be on his side. It makes all the difference.

 

Practically speaking, my boy has done very well and overcome the worst of it through environmental controls and behavioral training of himself - habits, routines, etc. He didn't need medication. He succeeds socially now, and can even enjoy and do well in Civil Air Patrol, which has demands, deadlines, high expectations. If you'd like we can talk about the ways homeschool moms can support and teach boys with ADHD, and how to keep the relationship good when your feel pushed to the brink, lots of parents here have that experience.

 

My son and I are so grateful for homeschooling because it gives us time to work on these things, while minimizing outside pressures and distractions. We keep the joy in the journey. We work hard but we take every opportunity for respite and fun, because that's a life.

Tibbie, I love you.  Thank you for this.  This is the latest in a long line of encouragements you've given me.  

 

I would personally love to have a discussion on how homeschool moms can support and teach boys with ADHD (we don't have any official dx).  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think you might just have to be more on top of them.  Meaning sitting near them while they do their work.  Telling them ok now get started and sit with them or in the same room. 

 

I have a 13 year old.  I am only beginning to be able to get him to do some small amounts of things while I'm not on top of him.  I tried giving him an assignment sheet and letting him figure out when to do stuff (he asked for that).  I gave it a chance, but he just kept waiting until the absolute last minute and often running out of time.  So I stopped doing that. I break up the work load and tell him today you need to do this and I want it in front of me or e-mailed by x-time.  That's been much better. 

 

I wish he could just handle it all on his own, but let's face it, most 13 year olds aren't expected to and cannot. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well hey and at least he was sort of doing something productive while on the toilet. LOL Although I could never quite understand how anyone can sit on a toilet for that long.  It's too uncomfortable for me and I just want to get in and out as quickly as possible. 

[Kiara.I]

I agree about never tying things where others are counting on them to their performance.

 

With regards to managing time, I think it might be helpful for you to read this and its sequel (some mild language):  http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/10/why-procrastinators-procrastinate.html

 

You've said this isn't your temperament, so you DON'T understand him.  And if you're going to help him, you need to.

It will be invaluable for you to help teach him time management skills.  But you won't be able to do that until you can see what his thought process is and be able to work with him without judging his personality and thought processes around work as less-than.  And that will probably be hard for you.  People who get work done in a timely fashion almost always judge those who have trouble with it.

 

But if you can, if you can truly help him to learn to master his instant-gratification monkey, then you will have done a Grand Thing.

[fruitofthewomb]

The others have great advice. Esp Tibbie.

 

I had some aha moments about this very thing while reading Smart but Scattered. My child is 9 & a girl so it's different but she couldn't get morning chores done in a timely manner. I made a list & posted it on the fridge. I set a timer for 10 min & checked in on her progress after 10 min. This way she didn't get too far behind before being redirected but I wasn't nagging. I just would say-show me where you are on the list. It worked so well! When she could get it done in 30 min then she got a sticker. 5 stickers bought an ice cream. Now I don't have to set the timer. She is in the habit. I just check in on her & she is almost always on track.

 

I have 4 other younger dc. It was a pain to get this started. I was resistant. But it made life easier in the long run!

 

Anyway-the book gives a lot of suggestions for a myriad of problematic situations. I think it would be a big help to figuring out a solution.

[Denise in IN]

I really do love what you've said here and the advice is spot on. I guess I'm just so frustrated because I'm not wired that way. Him not doing what he needs to do when he needs to do it interferes with my getting my things done as well because I have to go back and grade things later. As for the extra activities and hobbies, they are non existent right now because he dawdles so much in the day, he's not done with schoolwork until 5pm. It has nothing to do with the amount of schoolwork because his twin is done already at 1pm. I have tried to motivate with extra hobbies or things that interest him and they do, but when it gets down to the brass tacks of it all, he can't stay on track long enough to get done to do those things. I want him to succeed. I don't want schoolwork to be all day until dinner time. I want him to be able to play outside and build or what eve,but he just can't get it together. I can not sit with him all day. I have 3 other children that need me too...maybe I should just put him in school as it's clearly evident I'm the one to blame here.

 

(((hugs))) to you, mommyx4.  The year of 12 & 13 for boys is like the "pit of despair" for the mom.  I'm on boy #2, maybe seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel, with one more boy to go.  oy!    And I've been there with the "reading on book on the toilet for an hour", sometimes a timer is just what you need!  :laugh:

 

YOU ARE NOT THE ONE TO BLAME!  You are working hard to try to figure out how to move forward.  And I don't think anyone here would say "just put him in school".  He needs you now more than ever, but he is more difficult than ever!  Oh the life with teenage boys!

 

I think you should accept what his actions have told you clearly, that he is not able to manage big chunks of time in the way his twin does, and the way you are hoping for!  He needs you to walk alongside him and help him to learn how to get there.  You will need to do it in an accepting, non-punitive manner, even though it's exasperating!  I don't think you need to sit with him all day, but it may be that you need to set small time goals for him, check in with him every hour, set a timer, have him work close by you while you're working with other kids.  Expect that he may not be able to manage his whole day or even half his day for quite a while, maybe years!  My 13yo ds manages time better than his 15yo brother.  I spend way more time working with the 15yo on this!  It drives me crazy, but I know what Tibbie says is so, so true - the relationship is more important.

 

I try not to ever use an event where others are counting on my kids' involvement or where there was a specific commitment as a reward or discipline.  I also try really hard not to let them get in a place where they're only doing school all the time, even if it seems like it's their own fault!  I would take that as a signal that I needed to step in earlier, with help rather than consequences, to avoid putting my child in a place where he feels hopeless/helpless.

 

Your boys are blessed to have a mom who's so dedicated to their learning and success.  Hang in there!  Put on creative thinking, get on his side, enlist his help and thinking, and little by little you can get to a better spot.

[Denise in IN]

My son and I are so grateful for homeschooling because it gives us time to work on these things, while minimizing outside pressures and distractions. We keep the joy in the journey. We work hard but we take every opportunity for respite and fun, because that's a life.

 

I don't want to quote your whole post for the sake of space, but the entire thing may be the best post I've ever read here, particularly for where I am in this parenting journey.  Thank you!

[OneStepAtATime]

OP, as others have said, you are not the one to blame.  This is just one of those things we all have to find a way to navigate as parents and educators.  

 

Just be prepared for the fact, as others have also said, that some kids are not yet ready for a laundry list of stuff that they have to do on their own.  Read Smart But Scattered for a real eye opener on how much our brains have to process and execute just to get through a simple task.  Some people do not have the ability to just automatically do that.  That type of Executive Functioning takes time to develop and frequently they need systematic, carefully laid out instruction, modeling and scaffolding, and for a very long time, before it internalizes.  

 

And seriously, read Smart But Scattered.  It might help you both with coming up with a more workable solution that meets both of your needs.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:   Good luck!  

[City Mouse]

As a parent who pulled a child out of a traditional public school, I would have to agree that putting him in school will not solve the problem. My DS with ADHD could not get his work done at school. There were way too many distractions. He would come home at 4:00 with 3-4 hours of work to be done and often a full day of work for the weekend, so head no time for any extra activities at all and we were both tired and frustrated. even now at 12 he still needs me right next to him most of the time he is working. Because of my schedule, he tends to get his work done from 4-9pm when I am free. He doesn't get to see his friends as much as he would like, but he acknowledges that his "free time" is during the day when I am working.

 

Maybe he does need a more strict daily schedule. What would happen if you get him up and started an hour or two before the others? Would he get his work done more quickly if he had that time with you?

[kiwik]

It is Friday where you are right? I would take him aside and admit that you made a mistake tying the event to school work. Then I would see of you can find a couple of hours over the weekend for the two of you to go somewhere and come up with an action plan that you both agree on. Something like I will finish breakfast by x time then sit near mum while she teaches the youngest and do y subject. Then I will etc.

[Mom22ns]

Tibbie's message was beautiful. 

 

I think the point that everyone can agree on is that not all kids, maybe not even most 13 yo boys can handle managing their day on their own. It isn't a realistic expectation. In public school, most of their time would be managed for them, but for a kiddo that has trouble focusing, that would still be a disaster, so don't bother second guessing if he would be better off there.

 

The suggestion of Smart but Scattered - I'd make it Smart But Scatter Teens, is a good read that might give you and him, some concrete ideas of where his weaknesses and strengths are. How to leverage his strengths and work on or around the weaknesses.

 

For now, you need to rein in some. Don't expect a day to get done on its own. Expect to spend far more time nearby, watching, monitoring, helping. I'd start by helping him plan. Instead of just writing the list on the board, take him aside and have him plan how he is going to accomplish that list with you. "What are you going to do first today? What else will you have done before lunch? When are you going to get x done? How long do you think y will take? Help him plan, then check on his plan. He was going to do math first and thought it would take 45 minutes. You check on him 45 minutes later and see how math is going. Is it done? If so, congratulate him and brag on him. If not, why not? Is he having trouble with a concept? Trouble focusing? Can you help? Maybe it is time to sit beside him while he works on the math until he finishes it.

 

If just helping him plan and checking in regularly isn't enough, my next step would be to begin spending far more time sitting with him. From the planning/reporting trial, which subjects were most likely to not be done in a reasonable amount of time. Make sure he is in the room with you when he works on those. Then you watch: Is he working? Is he daydreaming? Is he getting stuck and not asking for help when he should? Help him figure out what about those subjects is throwing him and plan a way to work around it. It might be he just has trouble forcing himself to get started on them. He may need you to say, at 10:00 we will start math together. He comes to you or you go to him, but there is a structure. He can't just keep putting it off. You are there, it is time and he has to do it. He may need that. 

 

One step at a time, find the problems and give him as much support as he needs. He may need far more of your time and attention during the day. Give it to him, willingly, lovingly, not as if he is disrupting your day or causing trouble, but as if homeschooling is your job and you are thrilled to spend the time with him. See his confidence grow as you ask only what he can do. Once he is back on track, you can let him grow gradually into maintaining his own schedule. It may be years before he is completely able to do that. This year ds (2e) had a very independent course load, and as a senior in high school he was still not able to completely manage his schedule alone. It was too hard to stay on track. Even college doesn't require that. There are classes to go to at a set time and therefore the bones of a schedule in place. Be gentle and patient. You can reward success, but be careful about setting up punishments for failures particularly if you haven't yet equipped him to succeed.

[Tess in the Burbs]

My boy is 13. I tried giving him a subject list this year. He was working all.day.long.

 

I finally took back control. I had to lower math expectations and lessons are split over 2 days now. I also make firm recommendations about the order of subjects. This week he figured out if he gets math done before lunch he can be done by 2:30 and have free time before activities. I had to bend my plans, he has had to try things a way different than his plan.

 

We had a lot of long weeks to figure out his flow this year. His process is slower than most and I had to lower expectations in some areas to make life bearable.

 

I do not take away activities for long days. He attends planned and paid activities.He loses out on dinner out with the family, TV time with the family, play time with neighbors, etc.

 

I am learning so much this year about tweaking life for the hormones and school lol

[mom2att]

I really do love what you've said here and the advice is spot on. I guess I'm just so frustrated because I'm not wired that way. Him not doing what he needs to do when he needs to do it interferes with my getting my things done as well because I have to go back and grade things later.

 

This hits the nail on the head--you're not wired that way, and it doesn't sound like twin #1 is, either. Because when it comes down to it, this isn't about what he is doing, but who he is.

 

You've gotten great advice here. Yours is a kid who is going to need a lot more hand-holding and small term goals in the area of time management. And while your training and assistance will go a long way toward helping him manage his time in the future when he is able to be more independent, he may always seem (to you) to struggle in this area. Because he's wired that way.

 

I am the organized, get it done person in my house. My husband is a lot like your son. For some reason, clocks just seem to run a lot faster for him, and he can spend an hour doing something that should have taken 10 minutes and not even realize that it has been way more than 10 minutes. Yes, it affects me and my getting things done sometimes. But it's who he is. I can't expect him to change and be more like me, because an area that is a strength of mine does not need to be and will never be a strength of his--he has his own areas of strength.

 

I guess what I'm saying is to help your son by teaching him time management strategies and setting realistic expectations in the baby steps that he may need right now, but don't compare him to yourself or to your other son. Don't forget to find and appreciate his strengths as well as helping him with his weaknesses.

 

[myfunnybunch]

I heart Tibbie. You made me teary, because what you wrote was what I needed to read today.

 

And, to the OP, my ds struggles with attention and time management. The passage of time is a bit of a mystery to him, and he is already SO disappointed in himself that hearing something like, "There is no way you're going to be finished in time," would be incredibly disheartening.

 

Lest you think I'm being unkind, the reason I know this so well is because I've said it myself. What I say now, instead, is variations on "Let's see how much you can get done. I'll help. You'll have to be patient with my micromanaging and prompting, because I'm trying to help you get as much accomplished as possible. I'll have to be patient when you get sidetracked. Let's work together on this as a team. Give this your best attention and we'll see what we can get done." When I come alongside, we both feel more connected, and he feels helped instead of criticized.

 

Cat

[Caribbean Queen]

We have tried to give them a bit more freedom and in turn expected more of them.  

 

They have an agenda each day that I put on the board.  They know the flow of the day.  I don't set times, but we generally do things around a specific time.

 

He's running around now upset and cranky because he's so far behind. 

 

It's not working. Set his schedule. Make sure he does his work every day.  Sit with him as much as he needs you to.  Don't let him have "freedom" to get behind and scramble to get it all done on Friday afternoon. 

 

We, homeschoolers, need to know it is OK for our children to NOT work independently.  Do you know of any schools that make a list of assignments on Mondays, let the children do as they wish, and then check the work on Fridays?  I don't.