Ann.without.an.e Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Science. He's always had an outstanding comprehension for anything science related. So just for fun with no practice or explanation I gave him the ACT Science section from a real ACT exam and he only missed four...as an eighth grader. It just confirmed his aptitude for anything science. He struggles in math though. How do I plan and gear studies for him for high school when he seems so one-sided? Will this even out with time? What are some good career paths for a kid who is great at science but not math? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I do not quite understand - the ACT Science section does not really test anything about science, but is rather a test in speed reading and interpreting graphs and data. So, your DS seems to have those strengths as well. Good at science without math leaves biology. Physics and chemistry do require a lot of math (and saying somebody is good in it but bad in math makes no sense). I'd work hard on shoring up his weakness, particularly math, because THAT is what will keep doors open for him in science. Even as a bio major, calc 1 is required (and more at more demanding schools). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 What are some good career paths for a kid who is great at science but not math? Depends on what area of math your son is weak in. One of my friend is a chemist/conservation scientist working on art preservation for a museum. Two of my friends are working in R&D, one in a pharmaceutical company, another in a hospital/biologist. All my friends that are not into math (calculus) avoided computational sciences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Congrats to your DS for doing so well on the test. That is a great accomplishment for an 8th grader. I do have to agree with Regentrude, though. The ACT science section does not test scientific knowledge or ability; it is all about comprehension and interpretation. I think that particular test is misnamed. He may find that he is interested in subjects that require reason and logical thinking. He might want to look into computers, robotics, etc. If he is interested in the standard sciences, he will have to bite the bullet and do what is necessary to learn the math skills required to succeed in those areas, especially statistics. ETA: Even Psychology (esp the experimental, research orientated side, including neuroscience/biopsych) requires calc and stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just how weak is his math? What level math is he doing right now? What program is he using? What kind of science does he like and what is his interest? The only science that doesn't require a ton of math is Biology and it's off-shoots. However, in college, even someone primarily studying a Biology based field is likely to need Chemistry and or Physics at a level high enough to require a significant proficiency in math. In other words, if he loves science, he will eventually hit a brick wall if he can't do math. But when and where he hits that wall depends on his actual math level and his science interests... thus the first two questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer&Mom Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Okay, so he is good at conceptual thinking, reads quickly, and can interpret data. Tax attorney? (You can't be afraid of numbers, but there is no math above basic algebra. Trust me.) The thinking skills used in science are applicable to so many non-STEM fields. If math remains a stumbling block, there are other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I would not rule out math intensive fields just because he is struggling in 8th grade. What programs have you used/are you using for math? What level is he working out? Does he struggle greatly with concepts, or does he dislike doing math, or is he simply slow at math? If he loves science enough to do the math work required he can likely overcome moderate challenges in that domain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trilliums Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I would not rule out math intensive fields just because he is struggling in 8th grade. What programs have you used/are you using for math? What level is he working out? Does he struggle greatly with concepts, or does he dislike doing math, or is he simply slow at math? If he loves science enough to do the math work required he can likely overcome moderate challenges in that domain. :iagree: When my son was in grade 8 I didn't think he would ever survive a math class. He was strongly motivated by online classes in science. This kid now loves math and is quite advanced (DE at the U in math classes this year) and self driven in that area. He still does not like middle school math though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 I do not quite understand - the ACT Science section does not really test anything about science, but is rather a test in speed reading and interpreting graphs and data. So, your DS seems to have those strengths as well. Good at science without math leaves biology. Physics and chemistry do require a lot of math (and saying somebody is good in it but bad in math makes no sense). I'd work hard on shoring up his weakness, particularly math, because THAT is what will keep doors open for him in science. Even as a bio major, calc 1 is required (and more at more demanding schools). I am totally aware of the fact that the ACT doesn't test true Science. I know from experience that he is good at Science and I am not basing this on the ACT. He has the crazy ability to fully understand things that are Science based though. Maybe this helps with that section? I have a crazy theory... He lacks confidence. He struggles with focus. Yet he is good at science. Did he excel in that portion just because he approached it confidently? He sort of panics with anything math. He didn't do too bad with reading - 26, not terrible for an eighth grader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Just how weak is his math? What level math is he doing right now? What program is he using? What kind of science does he like and what is his interest? The only science that doesn't require a ton of math is Biology and it's off-shoots. However, in college, even someone primarily studying a Biology based field is likely to need Chemistry and or Physics at a level high enough to require a significant proficiency in math. In other words, if he loves science, he will eventually hit a brick wall if he can't do math. But when and where he hits that wall depends on his actual math level and his science interests... thus the first two questions. He is pre-algebra this year. We switched from Saxon to Lial's at the suggestion of a few moms here. He does like it better. Certain aspects of math he shines in, like fractions and decimals, etc. With basic math he tends to make a ridiculous amount of errors which he can correct on his own once you mark them. It isn't a lack of understanding in that area. He is struggling a good bit with anything algebraic for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 I would not rule out math intensive fields just because he is struggling in 8th grade. What programs have you used/are you using for math? What level is he working out? Does he struggle greatly with concepts, or does he dislike doing math, or is he simply slow at math? If he loves science enough to do the math work required he can likely overcome moderate challenges in that domain. He is pre-algebra this year. We switched from Saxon to Lial's at the suggestion of a few moms here. Mostly dislikes and lacks confidence. He is also super slow. He procrastinates to start it and he drags doing it. Certain aspects of math he shines in, like fractions and decimals, etc. With basic math he tends to make a ridiculous amount of errors which he can correct on his own once you mark them. It isn't a lack of understanding in that area. He is struggling a good bit with anything algebraic for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 :iagree: When my son was in grade 8 I didn't think he would ever survive a math class. He was strongly motivated by online classes in science. This kid now loves math and is quite advanced (DE at the U in math classes this year) and self driven in that area. He still does not like middle school math though. This is great to know and very encouraging. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 He struggles with focus. Yet he is good at science. He is science driven at the moment, not math driven. Doesn't mean that he is bad at math. I think he might like math if the problems are based on science like balancing chemical equations, calculating resultant forces using phythagoras theorem. If he love astronomy, I would have asked you to try the free NASA math workbooks for pre-algebra and up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 He is struggling a good bit with anything algebraic for some reason. Could be hormones. He is the right age for it. I remember someone (Jann in TX?) saying that 7th or 8th grade math ought to be a repeat because of hormones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 He is science driven at the moment, not math driven. Doesn't mean that he is bad at math. I think he might like math if the problems are based on science like balancing chemical equations, calculating resultant forces using phythagoras theorem. If he love astronomy, I would have asked you to try the free NASA math workbooks for pre-algebra and up. Where can I find these NASA workbooks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 He is pre-algebra this year. We switched from Saxon to Lial's at the suggestion of a few moms here. He does like it better. Certain aspects of math he shines in, like fractions and decimals, etc. With basic math he tends to make a ridiculous amount of errors which he can correct on his own once you mark them. It isn't a lack of understanding in that area. He is struggling a good bit with anything algebraic for some reason. Some 8th graders just aren't developmentally ready for algebra just yet. It doesn't mean he will never be ready. The math brain develops the ability to think abstractly in these years and some day it might just click. I've seen students go from remedial math to Calc from 9th - 12th and a college math major afterward. It doesn't mean all will, of course, but it can happen. If you need to double up on math in high school, Geometry and Alg 2 can be taken at the same time. Otherwise, environmental sciences tend not to need as much math as others. Chances are Calc may still be a requirement. Stats too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Where can I find these NASA workbooks? Links in this thread http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/465235-space-math-nasa/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Another suggestion I have is to continue math year round. This has been helpful for my ds who enjoys science, but doesn't get math as easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Some 8th graders just aren't developmentally ready for algebra just yet. It doesn't mean he will never be ready. The math brain develops the ability to think abstractly in these years and some day it might just click. I've seen students go from remedial math to Calc from 9th - 12th and a college math major afterward. It doesn't mean all will, of course, but it can happen. If you need to double up on math in high school, Geometry and Alg 2 can be taken at the same time. Otherwise, environmental sciences tend not to need as much math as others. Chances are Calc may still be a requirement. Stats too. One of mine is like this. We actually did Algebra I in both 8th and 9th grade because I didn't "get" that he wasn't ready. Thankfully he bounced back and has aced math ever since, even getting a perfect score one year on the math part of the Stanford. We're in pre-calc now (12th grade) with a very high "A." He actually hasn't liked math in high school though, although he works hard. He loved science in middle school, but of late is talking more about finance or accounting as a college major. He also went through a period of wanting to major in languages in college (he did 3 in high school including AP Latin), but we ruled that out. Engineering or science don't interest him right now. Of course you want to encourage their strengths, but a lot of change happens in high school too, and of course the majority of students change majors at least once in college. My goal has been to make sure they get rigor in the 3 R's and to push them in areas of strength and interest to see where that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Of course you want to encourage their strengths, but a lot of change happens in high school too, . Oh good gravy, even in one year :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 He is pre-algebra this year. We switched from Saxon to Lial's at the suggestion of a few moms here. Mostly dislikes and lacks confidence. He is also super slow. He procrastinates to start it and he drags doing it. Certain aspects of math he shines in, like fractions and decimals, etc. With basic math he tends to make a ridiculous amount of errors which he can correct on his own once you mark them. It isn't a lack of understanding in that area. He is struggling a good bit with anything algebraic for some reason. Here is how i see it fwiw. He is currently using a solid math program, and if he came from Saxon, he has always used a solid math program, so he isn't behind or weak for the level he is on. If he is able to finish Pre-Algebra and continue through his math sequence with on math/year, he will finish Pre-Calc by the end of high school. If he gets stronger in math as he matures, he could double up a year (geometry can double with Algebra 2) and he could make it all the way through calculus. Either of those sequences will work for a potential science major in any field. It is true that a student who wants to be an engineer and has only gotten through pre-calc is at a disadvantage and will not be able to get into a competitive program, but that wouldn't stop them from getting into a solid program at a state college. At this point, you have a child who likes and shows aptitude with science. He isn't strong in math, but he isn't failing or behind in math either. He is just plodding along a bit. I wouldn't limit anything. Build his science sequence around his math level. It may be that when he sees science that he can't reach because of his math skills he will become more motivated in math. It may be that when science becomes heavily encumbered with math, he loses interest in science. Either way, right now, just keep moving forward. There is nothing about where he is now that says he cannot get anywhere he wants to go, except perhaps a very competitive STEM college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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