AFwife Claire Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My good friend, who we do all our co-op stuff with, went to her local high school a few days ago to register her oldest kids for AP exams. While she was there, she started chatting about colleges with one of the counselors. Then the head of the guidance department for the high school came out to join the conversation, and she said, "Ohhh, you're homeschooling . . . I'm so sorry, but college isn't an option if you're homeschooled. You have to be able to count Carnegie hours, and homeschoolers can't do that. Without an accredited diploma, there simply is no way your son can get accepted at any college, no matter if you do AP classes or not." So I just thought I'd let everyone on here know you are completely wasting your time, since college isn't an option for any of your children . . . Haha! That would be funny except that this is a large high school in Northern Virginia, not some rural school that doesn't deal much with colleges or homeschoolers! But my friend just smiled sweetly and said, "Thanks, I had no idea; I'll get on that." . . . Because she is completely at the mercy of this guidance department! Her kids take AP tests there, and in fact her oldest son is being allowed to take one on the make-up day, since he will be at a mock trial tournament on the regularly-scheduled exam day. People who so confidently spout off such complete falsehoods do not usually take kindly to being set straight, and my friend did not want to ruin anything for her kids or any other homeschoolers by making the guidance head be antagonistic to homeschoolers! We've had lots of discussion at our house as to whether this lady was really just ignorant, which is hard to believe, or if she had some other motive? Although we live really close to our friends, they are assigned to a different high school. Our school has never said anything of this sort. Surely in this day and age, you would think people in education would at least be familiar with successful homeschooled kids who have done well in college? At least to know that most universities have policies in place to deal with homeschoolers? So weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wow. What a maroon. I get it that your friend feels that she can't make waves, but ... I'd love to have my homeschooled kids send her some postcards from their colleges telling her that she is misinformed. Perhaps she needs to see the annual list of acceptances we have here as well as on some other lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Perhaps the guidance counselor should talk to some of the college reps that visit the school. All the colleges in VA that I've visited and mentioned homeschool applicants in their general admissions talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My good friend, who we do all our co-op stuff with, went to her local high school a few days ago to register her oldest kids for AP exams. While she was there, she started chatting about colleges with one of the counselors. Then the head of the guidance department for the high school came out to join the conversation, and she said, "Ohhh, you're homeschooling . . . I'm so sorry, but college isn't an option if you're homeschooled. You have to be able to count Carnegie hours, and homeschoolers can't do that. Without an accredited diploma, there simply is no way your son can get accepted at any college, no matter if you do AP classes or not." So I just thought I'd let everyone on here know you are completely wasting your time, since college isn't an option for any of your children . . . Haha! That would be funny except that this is a large high school in Northern Virginia, not some rural school that doesn't deal much with colleges or homeschoolers! But my friend just smiled sweetly and said, "Thanks, I had no idea; I'll get on that." . . . Because she is completely at the mercy of this guidance department! Her kids take AP tests there, and in fact her oldest son is being allowed to take one on the make-up day, since he will be at a mock trial tournament on the regularly-scheduled exam day. People who so confidently spout off such complete falsehoods do not usually take kindly to being set straight, and my friend did not want to ruin anything for her kids or any other homeschoolers by making the guidance head be antagonistic to homeschoolers! We've had lots of discussion at our house as to whether this lady was really just ignorant, which is hard to believe, or if she had some other motive? Although we live really close to our friends, they are assigned to a different high school. Our school has never said anything of this sort. Surely in this day and age, you would think people in education would at least be familiar with successful homeschooled kids who have done well in college? At least to know that most universities have policies in place to deal with homeschoolers? So weird. Is the guidance counselor known to be vindictive, petty, and willing to operate outside the law or something? What was your friend afraid she might do if she were matter-of-factly informed that hs'ers do go to college? Not "antagonized" but just talked to as if she were a regular person? I can't imagine saying nothing but I've never been punished by an insane guidance counselor so I don't know how bad it can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to mess things up with AP tests. I've also stopped expecting that school personnel will be up to speed on what the legal requirements for homeschooling are. I'm pleasantly surprised if they understand what their legal obligations are with respect to homeschooling (for example, access to testing, marking notices of intent as received vs approved, access to libraries and clubs where that is applicable). I've run into too many school admin types whose first response is a no, even when it legally should be a yes. I had an incredibly frustrating and disturbing phone conversation with the outreach office at one community college who insisted (several times, during a 30 min call) that homeschooled high schoolers in California who wanted to apply for High School Special status at the CC had to submit several pieces of documentation, even though those documents were mutually exclusive (ie evidence of being both in a home study charter school and in a private school) I realize that homeschoolers are just a small fraction of the school age population, are even less common at the high school grades, and may not interact with school for things like AP very often. But I hate it when people in positions of authority declaim so authoritatively when then are very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomsintheGarden Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Is the guidance counselor known to be vindictive, petty, and willing to operate outside the law or something? What was your friend afraid she might do if she were matter-of-factly informed that hs'ers do go to college? Not "antagonized" but just talked to as if she were a regular person? I can't imagine saying nothing but I've never been punished by an insane guidance counselor so I don't know how bad it can get. I have, and I have learned it's best not to make waves with some people. We're pretty stuck around here with our AP situation. It's good right now, but it really depends on whoever is in control. I think Claire's friend was smart to not say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 My good friend, who we do all our co-op stuff with, went to her local high school a few days ago to register her oldest kids for AP exams. While she was there, she started chatting about colleges with one of the counselors. Then the head of the guidance department for the high school came out to join the conversation, and she said, "Ohhh, you're homeschooling . . . I'm so sorry, but college isn't an option if you're homeschooled. You have to be able to count Carnegie hours, and homeschoolers can't do that. Without an accredited diploma, there simply is no way your son can get accepted at any college, no matter if you do AP classes or not." So I just thought I'd let everyone on here know you are completely wasting your time, since college isn't an option for any of your children . . . Haha! That would be funny except that this is a large high school in Northern Virginia, not some rural school that doesn't deal much with colleges or homeschoolers! But my friend just smiled sweetly and said, "Thanks, I had no idea; I'll get on that." . . . Because she is completely at the mercy of this guidance department! Her kids take AP tests there, and in fact her oldest son is being allowed to take one on the make-up day, since he will be at a mock trial tournament on the regularly-scheduled exam day. People who so confidently spout off such complete falsehoods do not usually take kindly to being set straight, and my friend did not want to ruin anything for her kids or any other homeschoolers by making the guidance head be antagonistic to homeschoolers! We've had lots of discussion at our house as to whether this lady was really just ignorant, which is hard to believe, or if she had some other motive? Although we live really close to our friends, they are assigned to a different high school. Our school has never said anything of this sort. Surely in this day and age, you would think people in education would at least be familiar with successful homeschooled kids who have done well in college? At least to know that most universities have policies in place to deal with homeschoolers? So weird. What an idiot. But still, I might have said the same thing in your friend's situation, even if I wasn't worried about future consequences, because some people are just so stupid ignorant it doesn't do any good to talk to them. The counselor is vested in her school, and she really has no reason to be so clueless to know that homeschoolers are accepted to colleges with their unaccredited, parent-issued transcripts and diplomas and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We've had lots of discussion at our house as to whether this lady was really just ignorant, which is hard to believe, or if she had some other motive? I do have long serving admin staff in my district who are really just ignorant so it is not hard to believe. Even in my school district office, information don't get past around so everyone have different bits of information. My admin would have been familiar with going the community college route rather than taking APs as homeschoolers. In fact, I don't even know if any homeschoolers take the AP exams at the local high schools which are overcrowded as it is, plenty of portable classrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We've run into this a few times with DE -- I've learned to get in a certain mindset and have copies of state policies/rules with me before having a conversation. Otherwise I'd have to figure out if bail money can be considered a school expense. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 It's just alarming because she's a guidance counselor. Like, her whole job is *guidance* lol. I wonder if she tells other kids that can totally go to college, that they can't? I am frankly impressed by your friend's restraint, OP! There have been plenty of stories here of guidance counselors who give advice that isn't solidly grounded. This can be a real issue for students who are discouraged from applying to schools they would be accepted to (often with financial aid) or who are encouraged to think that spots at selective universities are no problem, because they are at the top of their not-so-challenging school. I dealt with one guidance counselor who was really bad about getting transcripts and school profiles out when students requested them (as in, it took more than six to eight weeks and several requests, endangering students applications to selective schools). And in their defense, they work in a system that is all about what is officially sanctioned. In some states, I don't think a school can just decide to offer a course, unless there is a course on the state catalog that matches it. Their requirements are firmly grounded in making sure that course offerings and student work and attendance meets minimums set by the district, the state and their accreditation body. So in a way it is true that a homeschooler won't have a transcript or diploma from an accredited source. Where the woman in the OP is wrong is thinking that this is a terminal obstacle to college admissions. I wouldn't expect her to know the process for international students either. But I would hope she wouldn't pronounce on the impossibility of a system she isn't familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Is the guidance counselor known to be vindictive, petty, and willing to operate outside the law or something? What was your friend afraid she might do if she were matter-of-factly informed that hs'ers do go to college? Not "antagonized" but just talked to as if she were a regular person? I can't imagine saying nothing but I've never been punished by an insane guidance counselor so I don't know how bad it can get. Well, I can see the possibility of being punished, so I think my friend made the right call too. Part of the problem is that we are in a *very* competitive part of Virginia, with school systems that spend more that some entire states. (We're not in Fairfax, but a neighboring county). The schools are full of students who do very well--excellent grades, hard classes, high test scores, all sorts of esoteric extra-curricular activities they have been doing since they were 2, etc.--and yet some still get turned away from UVa and VT because those schools can't admit too many from one part of VA. So I can see the counselor wanting to turn away some of the "competition" for those slots. Several years ago (about 8, I think), I was involved in trying to get a homeschool science fair together that would funnel into the state science fair, like I had been involved with in other states. Here in our county, however, the schools had a monopoly on the district qualifying fair, and they absolutely would not let any homeschoolers participate, even if if was just one student, and he or she had "won" our science fair. The reason was that a homeschooler might take away a winning position in the district fair from a public school student, and they just couldn't let that happen. The people I talked to in the school system were not very pleasant. Unlike the experiences of people on other threads, at least our high schools are very accepting of homeschoolers taking AP classes there, and the high schools offer pretty much every single AP class. We really don't want to do anything that will possibly mess up a good deal, especially when there are others within the school system that are somewhat resentful of homeschoolers and any successes they might achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I absolutely agree about not rocking the boat with the person in charge of the AP exams. I have probably listened to more confusion or weird sentiments about homeschooling as a result. But I don't need them to like me; just give my kid the test. I do find it odd that a guidance counselor has never noticed that college applications ask for a copy of your transcript, not your diploma. Nor do they ask for your diploma at the end of second semester (if they want anything) but rather your transcript. News flash-they aren't looking for proof of graduation but rather successful completion of second semester without a detrimental slacking off after they received your application. But-guidance counselors, in my humble opinion, have a long trend of not being as up to date on admissions issues as the parents and students they counsel. The few who know their profession are wonderful-unfortunately they are the few. Back when I was in high school everyone just ignored their advice. As I would the ignorant individual in the OP's story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well, darn, I guess me going to college was a complete figment of my imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 My good friend, who we do all our co-op stuff with, went to her local high school a few days ago to register her oldest kids for AP exams. While she was there, she started chatting about colleges with one of the counselors. Then the head of the guidance department for the high school came out to join the conversation, and she said, "Ohhh, you're homeschooling . . . I'm so sorry, but college isn't an option if you're homeschooled. You have to be able to count Carnegie hours, and homeschoolers can't do that. Without an accredited diploma, there simply is no way your son can get accepted at any college, no matter if you do AP classes or not." There's no way I could have stayed quiet. I dispel many myths about homeschooling and homeschoolers - including this one - but it boggles my mind to read this coming from the head of a guidance dept in this day and age. Many have questions - that's normal. But such wrong info spouted as fact? I couldn't let that go. It's not at all in my personality range of tolerance. I agree with a PP who suggested this "guidance" person talk with some of the representatives who come to their school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura4535 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well, darn, I guess me going to college was a complete figment of my imagination. And I guess the homeschooled Valedictorian Princeton mentions on their website is just a made up story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I've had the same discussion with the head of the guidance department multiple times. He's also the one that is outside the building with a bullhorn yelling at the kids about how he's going to send them home to their parents if they don't do exactly as he says. And he's the one that called security on me because I walked in with my DC the first time he took the PSAT (yes, even when I told him why I was there). There were no signs, and they wouldn't tell me over the phone where to go because they said they'd decide that morning what to do with the homeschoolers. And I give it to him with both barrels every time, even taking my oldest's SAT scores with me last time. Last time he conceded that I know what I'm doing, but he said that 95% of the homeschoolers in the county are doing a worse job than his high school. My friends whose kids go there love that high school. I don't :cursing: . I dread going there every time. They require face-to-face registration for the PSAT and an interview with the head of the guidance department for signing up for an AP. Last year I told my oldest that it was a blessing that he couldn't take the Latin AP there. The school we ended up with was lovely to deal with, and the proctor even got him a drink and snack at the break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura4535 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Luckily the district we're in deals with a lot of homeschoolers taking classes/exams in it. Even if the guidance counselor doesn't deal with homeschoolers, surely they've looked at college websites. Tons of them, especially selective colleges, have whole pages about homeschooled applicants. And there's no reason I can think of that would make homeschoolers unable to count Carnegie hours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 She was likely trying to get those AP taking students into her high school. High stats kids make the high school look good. I doubt her comment was made out of sheer ignorance. Silence may have been prudent, but it would not have been possible for me. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The school we ended up with was lovely to deal with, and the proctor even got him a drink and snack at the break! The (private) school GC where middle son took his APs (and ACTs) offered to help him look at colleges he'd be suited for and asked him quite a few (nice) questions to be certain he had a college knowledgeable person helping to guide him. This school also ordered a test just for him (their school didn't offer the course) for no extra cost to us. At no time did they ask him why he wasn't attending their school or imply that he should be. Some guidance counselors are worth their weight in gold IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 My good friend, who we do all our co-op stuff with, went to her local high school a few days ago to register her oldest kids for AP exams. While she was there, she started chatting about colleges with one of the counselors. Then the head of the guidance department for the high school came out to join the conversation, and she said, "Ohhh, you're homeschooling . . . I'm so sorry, but college isn't an option if you're homeschooled. You have to be able to count Carnegie hours, and homeschoolers can't do that. Without an accredited diploma, there simply is no way your son can get accepted at any college, no matter if you do AP classes or not." So I just thought I'd let everyone on here know you are completely wasting your time, since college isn't an option for any of your children . . . Haha! That would be funny except that this is a large high school in Northern Virginia, not some rural school that doesn't deal much with colleges or homeschoolers! But my friend just smiled sweetly and said, "Thanks, I had no idea; I'll get on that." . . . Because she is completely at the mercy of this guidance department! Her kids take AP tests there, and in fact her oldest son is being allowed to take one on the make-up day, since he will be at a mock trial tournament on the regularly-scheduled exam day. People who so confidently spout off such complete falsehoods do not usually take kindly to being set straight, and my friend did not want to ruin anything for her kids or any other homeschoolers by making the guidance head be antagonistic to homeschoolers! We've had lots of discussion at our house as to whether this lady was really just ignorant, which is hard to believe, or if she had some other motive? Although we live really close to our friends, they are assigned to a different high school. Our school has never said anything of this sort. Surely in this day and age, you would think people in education would at least be familiar with successful homeschooled kids who have done well in college? At least to know that most universities have policies in place to deal with homeschoolers? So weird. Ha ha ha. Your friend was wise to listen and keep her mouth shut, so long as she still requires any assistance from them. This is something that literally took me 50 years to understand! The lady likely truly believes that it is not possible. You cannot enlarge the box that one constructs if she isn't interested. I would be so tempted to go back and show this guidance counselor my kid's college acceptance though, telling her so sweetly that I thought she would be excited to hear that there are actually options for home schooled kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 There's no way I could have stayed quiet. I dispel many myths about homeschooling and homeschoolers - including this one - but it boggles my mind to read this coming from the head of a guidance dept in this day and age. Many have questions - that's normal. But such wrong info spouted as fact? I couldn't let that go. It's not at all in my personality range of tolerance. I agree with a PP who suggested this "guidance" person talk with some of the representatives who come to their school. I would have said exactly this ...10 years ago. Now, nope...I would handle it as everyone else suggests. I am not known for my high tolerance either. But now I try to remember to keep my immediate objective in mind, and worry about correction when my objective is met. Just for fun....are you in your 40's? Just for my own curiosity. Even though I fought it...I AM mellowing out a little in my old age. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I absolutely agree about not rocking the boat with the person in charge of the AP exams. I have probably listened to more confusion or weird sentiments about homeschooling as a result. But I don't need them to like me; just give my kid the test. I do find it odd that a guidance counselor has never noticed that college applications ask for a copy of your transcript, not your diploma. Nor do they ask for your diploma at the end of second semester (if they want anything) but rather your transcript. News flash-they aren't looking for proof of graduation but rather successful completion of second semester without a detrimental slacking off after they received your application. But-guidance counselors, in my humble opinion, have a long trend of not being as up to date on admissions issues as the parents and students they counsel. The few who know their profession are wonderful-unfortunately they are the few. Back when I was in high school everyone just ignored their advice. As I would the ignorant individual in the OP's story. THIS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 She was likely trying to get those AP taking students into her high school. High stats kids make the high school look good. I doubt her comment was made out of sheer ignorance. Silence may have been prudent, but it would not have been possible for me. :tongue_smilie: Lol. That's funny. Reminds me of Ron White, the comedian (upon arrest, where he tells them his alias is "tater tot"): "I had the right to remain silent...but I didn't have the ability." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I can totally understand the feeling of not wanting to mess things up with AP tests. I've also stopped expecting that school personnel will be up to speed on what the legal requirements for homeschooling are. I'm pleasantly surprised if they understand what their legal obligations are with respect to homeschooling (for example, access to testing, marking notices of intent as received vs approved, access to libraries and clubs where that is applicable). I've run into too many school admin types whose first response is a no, even when it legally should be a yes. I had an incredibly frustrating and disturbing phone conversation with the outreach office at one community college who insisted (several times, during a 30 min call) that homeschooled high schoolers in California who wanted to apply for High School Special status at the CC had to submit several pieces of documentation, even though those documents were mutually exclusive (ie evidence of being both in a home study charter school and in a private school) I realize that homeschoolers are just a small fraction of the school age population, are even less common at the high school grades, and may not interact with school for things like AP very often. But I hate it when people in positions of authority declaim so authoritatively when then are very wrong. This is pretty much every day, everywhere. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just for fun....are you in your 40's? Just for my own curiosity. Even though I fought it...I AM mellowing out a little in my old age. ;) Higher 40s - and I have the added advantage that all three of my boys are already in (or graduated from) college. ;) All three received decent merit aid too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Higher 40s - and I have the added advantage that all three of my boys are already in (or graduated from) college. ;) All three received decent merit aid too. Oh well....you blew my theory. ;) I'm still years older, but you are "ahead" of me in the kid department. I was just curious. Always looking for patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pronghorn Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I feel ignorant here. What is a Carnegie hour, and should I be tracking these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Carnegie Units are a time-based way to say the student did x subject for y hours and that equals one Carnegie Unit/Credit Hour. The funny thing about what the person at the school said is not all high schools even use Carnegie Units! Homeschoolers can assign credits to their high schoolers on their transcripts, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I feel ignorant here. What is a Carnegie hour, and should I be tracking these? I never counted them or even attempted to keep track. We just kept working until the work planned was done for each subject. Not one single college even remotely asked for info about it nor did our school district (and PA is considered a highly regulated state). That said, compared to the public high school where I work, our "at home" courses were far more rigorous. Ditto that with the cc where my boys did a few DE classes. It's not education I didn't care about - just hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyoustxmama Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If that counselor was serious, not merely being manipulative, I have to ask: where exactly has she been and what has she been doing for the past 20 years? One single Google search of: "homeschool college admissions", or "homeschoolers college" or anything similar, would be sufficient for her to see the gross error of her (very strange) belief that 'homeschoolers-cannot-go-to-college-ever-period'. I commend the mom for her self-restraint. I would either have been explosive... or stunned completely silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Or your GC can allow the student to take the AP test and then change the answer sheet, making sure the student fails. Ask me how I know this... :ohmy: Was this person caught? Was there justice??? Horrified . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Or your GC can allow the student to take the AP test and then change the answer sheet, making sure the student fails. Ask me how I know this... You can't leave us hanging! What happened? How did you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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