The de Blasio snub

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I've been reading this thread since it started but have been hesitant to post. My husband is a police officer so I have some idea of why the officers "protested" the Mayor's speech. I finally just decided to take a deep breath and do it. I probably won't post on this thread again.

 

In recent months officers, and by extension their families, have been feeling attacked. Not just by one statement by one Mayor but by many elected officials and the communities they serve. We feel attacked by policies that make it difficult for officers to do their jobs and protect themselves. We feel attacked when cities refuse to provide working equipment and when officer safety is put at risk because staffing levels are too low. Officers are dealing with death threats against themselves and their families, they go to work to be spit on, swore at and screamed at. Criminals are more brazen than ever and unwarranted accusations of brutality are rampant. Add to that protesters chanting for the deaths of cops and you have police officers who are pretty sensitive to what community leaders say or DON'T say in their speeches.

 

There have been too many speeches about how protesters have a right to peacefully protest (true) and how minority parents have to teach their children how to respond to police officers (also true, all parents should). It's what is not said, or tacked on as an afterthought that is upsetting. Officers are listening closely for words of support and they aren't hearing any. It feels like the entire nation is against us.

 

Even here, on these forums, it feels very anti-cop to me. This thread about a (perceived to be) negative thing that police officers have done is already on it's second page, while the one about the two officers being killed was short and died quickly.

 

There were 4 officers killed in the line of duty in the past week, as well as a couple who were attacked when off duty and a couple of family members who were attacked because of identifying stickers on their cars. But all that barely makes the news and no one talks about it. It feels very much like no one really cares.

 

As far as why the officers turned their backs on the Mayor - It wasn't just NYC officers, it was officers from all over the country. It wasn't just white officers, it was all races. They weren't just turning their backs on DeBlasio, they were turning their backs on all the leaders who they feel have abandoned them. And by doing so, were showing their support for each other and the families of the murdered officers.

 

This may not make sense to most people and that's fine. It probably won't unless you or someone you love straps on a Kevlar vest everyday to face the worst of society. You may think we're being overly sensitive. Well, that's fine too. People try to kill my husband on a regular basis, we're allowed to be sensitive. Police officers aren't robots. They are living, breathing, people with wives, husbands, children, parents,siblings and friends. They carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and see things no one should have to see. They deal with the emotional side of that every second of every day. Those officers were at the funeral on their own time and on their own dime (not on the city's as someone up-thread said). If they want to silently turn their backs on someone as a sign of solidarity then that's their right.

[poppy]

The Mike Brown thread was long because there was something to disagree about.  Unarmed teen killed, but no crime committed but the person who killed him  ----- that's controversial.

 

The Officers Being shot thread was short because there is nothing to disagree about.  Officers murdered, obviously a horrible crime and tragedy.  Sad but what on EARTH is there to say about it, aside from "that's awful"?

 

 

[poppy]

I've been googlign to find controversial comments from the Mayor, and the only other I've found is this:

 

"It’s a conversation that’s really much less about any one case. It’s something much bigger. . . . It’s kind of tragic that we are not surprised when one of these tragedies occurs, you know," he said.

"And by the way, even beyond the question of racism in America — and I’ve said very very clearly in these last days, let’s be clear about, this is not based on decades of racism, this is based on centuries of racism — we’ve become somehow used to the notion that these tragedies will occur."

 

From here: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/Bernard-Kerik-de-Blasio-NYPD-chokehold-death/2014/12/04/id/611148/

 

It is his statement that there are "centuries of racism" in America that was controversial, in that case.

 

[poppy]

I've been reading this thread since it started but have been hesitant to post. My husband is a police officer so I have some idea of why the officers "protested" the Mayor's speech. I finally just decided to take a deep breath and do it. I probably won't post on this thread again.

 

In recent months officers, and by extension their families, have been feeling attacked. Not just by one statement by one Mayor but by many elected officials and the communities they serve. We feel attacked by policies that make it difficult for officers to do their jobs and protect themselves. We feel attacked when cities refuse to provide working equipment and when officer safety is put at risk because staffing levels are too low. Officers are dealing with death threats against themselves and their families, they go to work to be spit on, swore at and screamed at. Criminals are more brazen than ever and unwarranted accusations of brutality are rampant. Add to that protesters chanting for the deaths of cops and you have police officers who are pretty sensitive to what community leaders say or DON'T say in their speeches.

 

There have been too many speeches about how protesters have a right to peacefully protest (true) and how minority parents have to teach their children how to respond to police officers (also true, all parents should). It's what is not said, or tacked on as an afterthought that is upsetting. Officers are listening closely for words of support and they aren't hearing any. It feels like the entire nation is against us.

 

Even here, on these forums, it feels very anti-cop to me. This thread about a (perceived to be) negative thing that police officers have done is already on it's second page, while the one about the two officers being killed was short and died quickly.

 

There were 4 officers killed in the line of duty in the past week, as well as a couple who were attacked when off duty and a couple of family members who were attacked because of identifying stickers on their cars. But all that barely makes the news and no one talks about it. It feels very much like no one really cares.

 

As far as why the officers turned their backs on the Mayor - It wasn't just NYC officers, it was officers from all over the country. It wasn't just white officers, it was all races. They weren't just turning their backs on DeBlasio, they were turning their backs on all the leaders who they feel have abandoned them. And by doing so, were showing their support for each other and the families of the murdered officers.

 

This may not make sense to most people and that's fine. It probably won't unless you or someone you love straps on a Kevlar vest everyday to face the worst of society. You may think we're being overly sensitive. Well, that's fine too. People try to kill my husband on a regular basis, we're allowed to be sensitive. Police officers aren't robots. They are living, breathing, people with wives, husbands, children, parents,siblings and friends. They carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and see things no one should have to see. They deal with the emotional side of that every second of every day. Those officers were at the funeral on their own time and on their own dime (not on the city's as someone up-thread said). If they want to silently turn their backs on someone as a sign of solidarity then that's their right.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to comment, thanks.

 

The only part of this that made me a little uneasy was the "all parents should" teach kids how to respond to officers.  That's obviously true, but it's so dismissive of the fears expressed by just about  every black parent in America.  We've heard about those fears over and over, in all cities, by rich and poor. Especially since the murder of Treyvon Martin (and his killers' acquittal).  If we can't acknowledge that fear and the divide that comes with it, how can we ever heal?  This snub is probably abouk a whoel lot of things, as you mentioned. But coming as it does after the Ferguson protests, the death of Eric Garner, the lack of charges against of the officer who killed him, and the mayor's comments about his own black son, it really feels like a it is the NYPD's comment on race.  And it's not a pretty one: it's we don't care, we're not going to change.  Perhaps that was not what it meant to convey, but that's how it read to me as an outsider.

 

Again, good to hear that it was about more than that.

[Tsuga]

Sorry. I apparently was looking at a quote in the paper which was an improper paraphrase of what the mayor said--the paraphrase was in quotes, and was not clearly marked as a paraphrase. It read (I have to go back and find it) something like, "This was tragic BUT we need to make changes in the department," therefore connecting the killings by cops, in a causal way, to the killings of cops--which is something that, although I understand it on one level, I think would totally inappropriate in a public speech.

 

I now see that it was presented ambiguously, so my apologies. I will see if I can find that.

[poppy]

His comments were disgusting and protest at a funeral is totally inappropriate. But if I had to judge, I'd say his comments were worse.

 

 

I take the comment as, "This cannot be about an eye for an eye. We cannot start justifying murder, not by the police, not of the police. Giving the murder of cops credence by associating it with the behavior of other cops is wrong philosophically and it is also dangerous in the long run, because it makes good people think that you won't stand behind them."

 

As a woman of color, I both fear bad cops and need good cops. I depend on them for my life.

 

The mayor's statements were horrible. Killing a cop comes from insanity and hate, NOT from anything the cop did, unless it is directly in self-defense. Cops are people and killing them is murder.

 

I wouldn't have turned my back. I probably would not have gone to the funeral, though, if I thought I couldn't go without protest.

 

Could you please share what comment of the mayor's you are talking about?

 

[Tsuga]

Clarified above.

[Laurie4b]

Belief or not in the power of prayer or focused good thoughts is not my point. My point is showing support to the poster asking for it.

 

I don't understand your point *there was nothing to argue or debate* in the officers being killed thread? What does arguing and debating have to do with that thread? Are you saying that would be the only reason to post in that thread?

 

Debate makes threads longer. A pp originally said that no one had started a thread on the killing of the NYPD officers. They had. Then a pp said that the thread only had a few posts compared to this thread which has more. So whether or not there is a debate about a thread is very relevant to how long it is. How long a thread is does not directly correlate with the seriousness of the subject. I think that was the point, not that there is no reason to post unless to debate.

[unsinkable]

I've been reading this thread since it started but have been hesitant to post. My husband is a police officer so I have some idea of why the officers "protested" the Mayor's speech. I finally just decided to take a deep breath and do it. I probably won't post on this thread again.

 

In recent months officers, and by extension their families, have been feeling attacked. Not just by one statement by one Mayor but by many elected officials and the communities they serve. We feel attacked by policies that make it difficult for officers to do their jobs and protect themselves. We feel attacked when cities refuse to provide working equipment and when officer safety is put at risk because staffing levels are too low. Officers are dealing with death threats against themselves and their families, they go to work to be spit on, swore at and screamed at. Criminals are more brazen than ever and unwarranted accusations of brutality are rampant. Add to that protesters chanting for the deaths of cops and you have police officers who are pretty sensitive to what community leaders say or DON'T say in their speeches.

 

There have been too many speeches about how protesters have a right to peacefully protest (true) and how minority parents have to teach their children how to respond to police officers (also true, all parents should). It's what is not said, or tacked on as an afterthought that is upsetting. Officers are listening closely for words of support and they aren't hearing any. It feels like the entire nation is against us.

 

Even here, on these forums, it feels very anti-cop to me. This thread about a (perceived to be) negative thing that police officers have done is already on it's second page, while the one about the two officers being killed was short and died quickly.

 

There were 4 officers killed in the line of duty in the past week, as well as a couple who were attacked when off duty and a couple of family members who were attacked because of identifying stickers on their cars. But all that barely makes the news and no one talks about it. It feels very much like no one really cares.

 

As far as why the officers turned their backs on the Mayor - It wasn't just NYC officers, it was officers from all over the country. It wasn't just white officers, it was all races. They weren't just turning their backs on DeBlasio, they were turning their backs on all the leaders who they feel have abandoned them. And by doing so, were showing their support for each other and the families of the murdered officers.

 

This may not make sense to most people and that's fine. It probably won't unless you or someone you love straps on a Kevlar vest everyday to face the worst of society. You may think we're being overly sensitive. Well, that's fine too. People try to kill my husband on a regular basis, we're allowed to be sensitive. Police officers aren't robots. They are living, breathing, people with wives, husbands, children, parents,siblings and friends. They carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and see things no one should have to see. They deal with the emotional side of that every second of every day. Those officers were at the funeral on their own time and on their own dime (not on the city's as someone up-thread said). If they want to silently turn their backs on someone as a sign of solidarity then that's their right.

:grouphug:

 

There are people here who appreciate what the police do and who understand the profession impacts the entire family.

 

Thank you to your DH and you and your kids, and all the law enforcement people and their families.

 

:grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

I've been reading this thread since it started but have been hesitant to post. My husband is a police officer so I have some idea of why the officers "protested" the Mayor's speech. I finally just decided to take a deep breath and do it. I probably won't post on this thread again.

 

In recent months officers, and by extension their families, have been feeling attacked. Not just by one statement by one Mayor but by many elected officials and the communities they serve. We feel attacked by policies that make it difficult for officers to do their jobs and protect themselves. We feel attacked when cities refuse to provide working equipment and when officer safety is put at risk because staffing levels are too low. Officers are dealing with death threats against themselves and their families, they go to work to be spit on, swore at and screamed at. Criminals are more brazen than ever and unwarranted accusations of brutality are rampant. Add to that protesters chanting for the deaths of cops and you have police officers who are pretty sensitive to what community leaders say or DON'T say in their speeches.

 

There have been too many speeches about how protesters have a right to peacefully protest (true) and how minority parents have to teach their children how to respond to police officers (also true, all parents should). It's what is not said, or tacked on as an afterthought that is upsetting. Officers are listening closely for words of support and they aren't hearing any. It feels like the entire nation is against us.

 

Even here, on these forums, it feels very anti-cop to me. This thread about a (perceived to be) negative thing that police officers have done is already on it's second page, while the one about the two officers being killed was short and died quickly.

 

There were 4 officers killed in the line of duty in the past week, as well as a couple who were attacked when off duty and a couple of family members who were attacked because of identifying stickers on their cars. But all that barely makes the news and no one talks about it. It feels very much like no one really cares.

 

As far as why the officers turned their backs on the Mayor - It wasn't just NYC officers, it was officers from all over the country. It wasn't just white officers, it was all races. They weren't just turning their backs on DeBlasio, they were turning their backs on all the leaders who they feel have abandoned them. And by doing so, were showing their support for each other and the families of the murdered officers.

 

This may not make sense to most people and that's fine. It probably won't unless you or someone you love straps on a Kevlar vest everyday to face the worst of society. You may think we're being overly sensitive. Well, that's fine too. People try to kill my husband on a regular basis, we're allowed to be sensitive. Police officers aren't robots. They are living, breathing, people with wives, husbands, children, parents,siblings and friends. They carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and see things no one should have to see. They deal with the emotional side of that every second of every day. Those officers were at the funeral on their own time and on their own dime (not on the city's as someone up-thread said). If they want to silently turn their backs on someone as a sign of solidarity then that's their right.

 

Thank you for posting. I have been trying to understand what the protest was about because I really don't know and his words about teaching his son didn't seem all that provocative and this helps.

 

However, in my reading to find out what the mayor said that was so bad, I also came across several references to praise for the police department. I wonder if part of the issue is what is and isn't being reported or headlined.  De Blasio did ask protestors to call off the protests during the days of the funerals. They did not comply and he can't force them to because of 1st amendment rights. But does his effort not matter, too? (This is a genuine question.) De Blasio was elected on a platform of getting rid of stop and frisk. Do the police perceive that as "anti-police"?  I am asking because that seems to me to be a decision by the community about what kind of community they want and what role they want officers to play. Not all communities have that policy, so it seems like a fair political issue.

 

What would your suggestions be for how we can address issues of implicit racism, need for better training, etc. while at the same time not giving our law enforcement officials the feeling that we are turning our backs on them?

 

 

[Laurie4b]

Yeah except that stop and frisk and institutional racism are real live problems with huge consequences for people of color.

 

And Blame was not really the point of the protests!

 

 

Whereas a murderous wacko assassinating policemen is kind of a one off not a complex societal issue which repeats itself in communities all over the US. (Lord willing).

 

I agree with you that blame was not the point of *most* of the protests. But I have also read of some protests calling for death to police. That is utterly despicable. It is also a shame that that slice of protestors can overshadow the good that others are trying to peaceably bring about.

 

The man who shot the police was mentally ill and had just shot his girlfriend. He may well have been incited by some of the talk of killing police. Mentally ill people do tend to take in what is happening around them and run it through their bizarre grid.

 

That part may well rest at the feet of the protestors who chanted such things. It probably necessitates protestors going forward to say explicitly what they are not saying as well as what they are saying.

[Lanny]

@2ndgenhomeschooler

 

Thank you for taking the time to write what you did and for participating in this thread (post #67).  I first posted and then I tried to delete my post (which doesn't seem possible) because I realized this is a very hot topic. A real hot potato.

 

It seems like from the Administration down, there is a lot of "anti police" attitude in the USA. Nobody says anything about Black on Black crime, or that the leading cause of death of  young Black men is homicide (by other Black men), that isn't politically correct; but with a few (horrible) incidents, everything seems to be the fault of police officers and nothing is the fault of those they deal with. As you wrote, cops work in the gutter and what they see isn't pretty.

 

Two LAPD officers in their car were shot at, but they lived to tell the story (and capture one person).

 

That this seems to have become a political thread is very sad. Criminal Justice problems should not be political problems. They involve the safety of everyone in the USA.

 

When she was very young, my wife was a Police Officer. She got pregnant and that was about 2 years before they allowed Single Mothers, so she had to resign. She was a member of an elite unit. People murdering people in cold blood, because of the uniform they wear or the work they do is not something that is going to help Black people in the USA.

[poppy]

 

 

Nobody says anything about Black on Black crime, or that the leading cause of death of  young Black men is homicide (by other Black men), that isn't politically correct; but with a few (horrible) incidents, everything seems to be the fault of police officers and nothing is the fault of those they deal with. As you wrote, cops work in the gutter and what they see isn't pretty.

 

We hold police to higher standards than criminals.  We shouldn't?

[poppy]

 

 

I agree with you that blame was not the point of *most* of the protests. But I have also read of some protests calling for death to police. That is utterly despicable. It is also a shame that that slice of protestors can overshadow the good that others are trying to peaceably bring about.

 

I have heard a whole lot, over and over, about whoever said Death to Police and almost nothing about the substance of what the majority of protestors said.  And here it happened again!

 

FWIW I am in Boston and the Boston Police Force facebook page is careful to highlight several positive interactions with protestors.  One was about a protestor who gave a "we don't hate you!" note to an officer- which meant a lot to him, and the PD wrote a "we respect you as well" post in response. Well done on all sides.

[idnib]

. 

 

[Laurie4b]

I have heard a whole lot, over and over, about whoever said Death to Police and almost nothing about the substance of what the majority of protestors said.  And here it happened again!

 

FWIW I am in Boston and the Boston Police Force facebook page is careful to highlight several positive interactions with protestors.  One was about a protestor who gave a "we don't hate you!" note to an officer- which meant a lot to him, and the PD wrote a "we respect you as well" post in response. Well done on all sides.

 

I agree with you. However, when people hear/read about Death to Police, that affects their perceptions. My previous post linked that to how a mentally ill person would process that. It wasn't a diss to all protestors,  just as my position on police reform is not a diss to any officers. I think it's important for both "sides" to hear the legitimate points the other has.

 

I happen to be pro- police reform. I have not heard about protests in my own community in time to join them, but I will when I do.  What I want is 1) Better police training to include training in de-escalation, better training in handling people with mental illness, and training to overcome implicit racial bias 2) body cameras for officers 3) a reasonable salary for LEOs and 4) a process to evaluate killings by police that is not tainted by conflict of interest, such as a separate commission rather than a local prosecutor.

 

Thanks for sharing how Boston PD is making a difference and trying to keep it from becoming us vs. them.

[unsinkable]

I appreciate you taking the time to comment, thanks.

 

The only part of this that made me a little uneasy was the "all parents should" teach kids how to respond to officers. That's obviously true, but it's so dismissive of the fears expressed by just about every black parent in America. We've heard about those fears over and over, in all cities, by rich and poor. Especially since the murder of Treyvon Martin (and his killers' acquittal). If we can't acknowledge that fear and the divide that comes with it, how can we ever heal? This snub is probably abouk a whoel lot of things, as you mentioned. But coming as it does after the Ferguson protests, the death of Eric Garner, the lack of charges against of the officer who killed him, and the mayor's comments about his own black son, it really feels like a it is the NYPD's comment on race. And it's not a pretty one: it's we don't care, we're not going to change. Perhaps that was not what it meant to convey, but that's how it read to me as an outsider.

 

Again, good to hear that it was about more than that.

Nice to know the part when 4 more police officers killed and officers families being targeted didnt make you uneasy.

 

Did you see that part? Or did you skip it? Or is it not worthy of comment?

[poppy]

Nice to know the part when 4 more police officers killed and officers families being targeted didnt make you uneasy.

 

Did you see that part? Or did you skip it? Or is it not worthy of comment?

 

I am the one who started this thread.  I really appreciated the reply, particularly the "It feels like the entire nation is against us" comment - it's incredibly insightful and useful.

 

I guess when I said "the part that made me uneasy" I was trying to find an object to dialog about.

 

What is it that would you like me to say about the slain officers, precisely?  .

[Katy]

I have a really difficult time believing anyone could have given half a nod to any news in the past month and not know exactly how the mayor repeatedly betrayed the police in NYC, to the point that a few days before the murder of those cops the police union asked that he not attend the funeral of any police officers killed in the line of duty.

 

His words and actions have repeatedly had a very political agenda and neglected both leadership and his job.  Inflammatory words with inflammatory demi-political figures by his side.  Anyone who has watched the news for the past 20 years would have an idea that inflammatory words in the midst of protest would bring out the crazy people and trigger murders just like those of the officers.  He has backtracked a little, but still not taken responsibility for his words or actions.

 

I'm wondering if this entire thread isn't solely to stir up political ire and inflame people.   I seriously doubt that anyone has no idea what the problem is.

[unsinkable]

I am the one who started this thread. I really appreciated the reply, particularly the "It feels like the entire nation is against us" comment - it's incredibly insightful and useful.

 

I guess when I said "the part that made me uneasy" I was trying to find an object to dialog about.

 

What is it that would you like me to say about the slain officers, precisely? .

"I am sorry for the loss of those men. I know police everywhere are like a brotherhood and it must hurt your family deeply."

 

Can you truly not understand that it was wrong for you to ignore the pain in her post and only focus on your agenda?

[mom2scouts]

I just received a FB post from a friend who's a police officer in our small city.  Apparently, a Molotov cocktail was found under one of the police cruisers last night.  While many of the protesters may only want reform, it is definitely inflaming those who hate police and making police jobs more dangerous.

[poppy]

"I am sorry for the loss of those men. I know police everywhere are like a brotherhood and it must hurt your family deeply."

 

Can you truly not understand that it was wrong for you to ignore the pain in her post and only focus on your agenda?

 

I don't really know what to say about this.  There have been many threads on this topic between Mike Brown, Eric Garner, the officers who were killed, the protests. Lots of pain in so many directions.  "Someone was killed" gets said a whole lot in these threads, sadly.   I would hope it goes without saying that that is a terrible thing, every time.

[Miss Peregrine]

I am the one who started this thread. I really appreciated the reply, particularly the "It feels like the entire nation is against us" comment - it's incredibly insightful and useful.

 

I guess when I said "the part that made me uneasy" I was trying to find an object to dialog about.

 

What is it that would you like me to say about the slain officers, precisely? .

You actually said it was the "only part"that made you uneasy.

[TranquilMind]

Not many people felt that way about the Ferguson protestors.

 

I have zero problem with political speech by a union , but, using a funeral of men killed too young as a soapbox is distasteful, to me.

Yes, a COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE venue!  Goodness.  Imagine the family! 

[Laurie4b]

I have a really difficult time believing anyone could have given half a nod to any news in the past month and not know exactly how the mayor repeatedly betrayed the police in NYC, to the point that a few days before the murder of those cops the police union asked that he not attend the funeral of any police officers killed in the line of duty.

 

His words and actions have repeatedly had a very political agenda and neglected both leadership and his job.  Inflammatory words with inflammatory demi-political figures by his side.  Anyone who has watched the news for the past 20 years would have an idea that inflammatory words in the midst of protest would bring out the crazy people and trigger murders just like those of the officers.  He has backtracked a little, but still not taken responsibility for his words or actions.

 

I'm wondering if this entire thread isn't solely to stir up political ire and inflame people.   I seriously doubt that anyone has no idea what the problem is.

 

I am beginning to understand the problem, but truly had no idea before and clicked on the thread because it brought up the issue and I thought I might learn.  It is frustrating to keep having motives impugned when I (along with others) am repeatedly trying to understand your point of view. 

 

Your statements in the post above are very general so it's hard to get a handle on. It may be chrystal clear to you but it is not to many others.

 

It would help if you could list the specific offenses rather than a characterization of offenses. He said xyz level of specificity. People repeatedly asked for links. The poster above who said it was a general feeling of being unsupported helped further the understanding the most.

 

I am very sad for the police officers killed, their families and loved ones but I do not entirely understand the dispute between the mayor and the NYPD.

[ktgrok]

I have no idea what the inflammatory words were. 

 

I've asked several times for links to the quoted words.

 

What are the words ?!

 

I'll even take a Fox link at this point :)

 

Looks to me like straight out politics - smearing a mayor of one persuasion by those of another.  Everything I can read that is an actual quote from the man himself sounds quite moderate.

 

Same here! I still don't get it. 

 

I am for getting rid of cops that are bad. Which seems to be, from what I've looked at statistic wise, a very small percentage, but they cause most of the harm.  That does not make me against the cops in general. It doesn't mean I am out to get cops. It doesn't mean I hate cops. I don't understand why anyone would think holding police to a high standard, one most police officers are already meeting, would be seen as being anti-cop. 

[Miss Peregrine]

I appreciate you taking the time to comment, thanks.

 

The only part of this that made me a little uneasy was the "all parents should" teach kids how to respond to officers. That's obviously true, but it's so dismissive of the fears expressed by just about every black parent in America. We've heard about those fears over and over, in all cities, by rich and poor. Especially since the murder of Treyvon Martin (and his killers' acquittal). If we can't acknowledge that fear and the divide that comes with it, how can we ever heal? This snub is probably abouk a whoel lot of things, as you mentioned. But coming as it does after the Ferguson protests, the death of Eric Garner, the lack of charges against of the officer who killed him, and the mayor's comments about his own black son, it really feels like a it is the NYPD's comment on race. And it's not a pretty one: it's we don't care, we're not going to change. Perhaps that was not what it meant to convey, but that's how it read to me as an outsider.

 

Again, good to hear that it was about more than that.

I'm confused by the mention of Trayvon Martin wrt teaching kids how to respond to officers. Not being snarky, sincerely asking.

[Matryoshka]

I agree with you. However, when people hear/read about is about Death to Police, that affects their perceptions. My previous post linked that to how a mentally ill person would process that. It wasn't a diss to all protestors,  just as my position on police reform is not a diss to any officers. I think it's important for both "sides" to hear the legitimate points the other has.

 

Could you please link me to a reputable news source that says that any protesters anywhere chanted Death to Police?  Because the only place I've heard that reported was by that Fox news reporter who edited a chant that did not say that to sound like it did, and has since had to publicly apologize for her inflammatory and downright completely inaccurate reporting.

 

If that indeed is the only place that this 'happened', I guess Fox is to blame, not the protesters, for putting that out there and fanning the flames.

[Matryoshka]

Wish more police departments responded to the protests like the Nashville police!  Love the reply by their chief of police to someone who wrote to him complaining that they thought the police should have responded in a more severe/harsh manner to protests. (they served them hot chocolate instead.  result?  No violence, people felt good about cops.  wow.  Great way to de-escalate! :) )

[Miss Peregrine]

Could you please link me to a reputable news source that says that any protesters anywhere chanted Death to Police? Because the only place I've heard that reported was by that Fox news reporter who edited a chant that did not say that to sound like it did, and has since had to publicly apologize for her inflammatory and downright completely inaccurate reporting.

 

If that indeed is the only place that this 'happened', I guess Fox is to blame, not the protesters, for putting that out there and fanning the flames.

My understanding is that the video is real, but not part of the official March. It happened at the same time and Fox inserted into their coverage of the March. It was not edited to sound like that.

[Laurie4b]

"I am sorry for the loss of those men. I know police everywhere are like a brotherhood and it must hurt your family deeply."

 

Can you truly not understand that it was wrong for you to ignore the pain in her post and only focus on your agenda?

 

Thank you for putting this into words.

 

I think people can overestimate how much anyone else understands . For instance, I did not know that "police everywhere are like a brotherhood"  (and therefore that all police families are feeling pain in the wake of the horrible execution deaths of Officers Ramos and Liu.) None of the professions I've worked in have the same dynamic, so a discussion about a social worker (one of my former professions) killed in the line of duty would not automatically raise major emotional connection to myself. Your post helps me understand how the dynamic is different in law enforcement families and how we need to be sensitive to that when discussing the issues.

 

I think that most people do feel terrible for the families of the officers killed but don't realize that other officers' families feel personally involved.

[Matryoshka]

My understanding is that the video is real, but not part of the official March. It happened at the same time and Fox inserted into their coverage of the March. It was not edited to sound like that.

 

Did you read the article?  It most definitely was edited to sound like that.  Fox has admitted this and apologized for its 'error'. Short excerpt:

 

...Fox affiliate WBFF aired a story claiming that law enforcement officials were facing increased threats amid nationwide, largely nonviolent protests against police brutality and misconduct. To make the point, WBFF included a clip of a local woman leading a protest chant allegedly urging others to "kill a cop." As WYPR reporter P. Kenneth Burns was quick to point out, however, this claim was completely inaccurate. (Gawker was also among the first to report WBFF's error.)

 

The clip was taken from video filmed at the National "Justice For All" March in Washington, D.C. earlier this month. Tawanda Jones is the woman in the video leading protesters in the following chant: "We won't stop! We can't stop! Till killer cops are in cell blocks!" But when WBFF aired the clip -- or at least a version of it that cuts off midway through the chant -- this is how an anchor interpreted Jones' words: "We won't stop, we can't stop, so kill a cop."

 

... WBFF also apologized to Jones on the air, and has since removed the story from its website.

 

... Some are now asking about the editorial process that led to WBFF's decision not to air the clip in full,  and wondering how the station managed to interpret the footage so inaccurately.

[Miss Peregrine]

Did you read the article? It most definitely was edited to sound like that. Fox has admitted this and apologized for its 'error'. Short excerpt:

 

...Fox affiliate WBFF aired a story claiming that law enforcement officials were facing increased threats amid nationwide, largely nonviolent protests against police brutality and misconduct. To make the point, WBFF included a clip of a local woman leading a protest chant allegedly urging others to "kill a cop." As WYPR reporter P. Kenneth Burns was quick to point out, however, this claim was completely inaccurate. (Gawker was also among the first to report WBFF's error.)

 

The clip was taken from video filmed at the National "Justice For All" March in Washington, D.C. earlier this month. Tawanda Jones is the woman in the video leading protesters in the following chant: "We won't stop! We can't stop! Till killer cops are in cell blocks!" But when WBFF aired the clip -- or at least a version of it that cuts off midway through the chant -- this is how an anchor interpreted Jones' words: "We won't stop, we can't stop, so kill a cop."

 

... WBFF also apologized to Jones on the air, and has since removed the story from its website.

 

... Some are now asking about the editorial process that led to WBFF's decision not to air the clip in full, and wondering how the station managed to interpret the footage so inaccurately.

Which article? The one I read was on MSNBC.

[LucyStoner]

I have no more patience for police unions who protect bad apples than most homeschoolers have for teachers unions who protect bad apples. The police union is not the final word on law enforcement matters. NYPD officers are well paid public servants who work for the mayor. They don't have to like him, but he is their boss and he can't be an effective mayor if he can't discuss policy issues that may not be popular with the police.

 

The police union has a political agenda, not unlike the protesters.

 

All sides need to try and see the other's perspective rather than sticking to blame game narratives.

 

I come from a 100+ year union family. I support unions in general. But there are issues with many unions. I wouldn't want my mayor afraid to frankly discuss law enforcement issues with my police officers and I doubt the residents of NYC want that either.

[Matryoshka]

Which article? The one I read was on MSNBC.

 

The article I linked to in the original message, and quoted from above.   Here it is again.  This article is from the first link I got on Google, but this was widely reported and the facts are not in question.  Fox has admitted the error and apologized publicly. 

 

BTW, if you Google "Fox news aplogizes", that won't work... too many apologies for too many errors to sort through!!  Wow.

[Miss Peregrine]

The article I linked to in the original message, and quoted from above. Here it is again. This article is from the first link I got on Google, but this was widely reported and the facts are not in question. Fox has admitted the error and apologized publicly.

 

BTW, if you Google "Fox news aplogizes", that won't work... too many apologies for too many errors to sort through!! Wow.

Thanks, I missed that link the first time. And lol on your last line. Ain't that the truth!

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y74eM8OsICI

 

I found a couple of CNN stories on this. The chant here "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now." So yes, protesters are calling for cops to be killed.

 

A video of this was found on the assassin's phone. Officers in Los Angeles and FL were shot at today while simply sitting in their cars. Fortunately none were injured but there are 2 suspects at large.

[Miss Peregrine]

The article I linked to in the original message, and quoted from above. Here it is again. This article is from the first link I got on Google, but this was widely reported and the facts are not in question. Fox has admitted the error and apologized publicly.

 

BTW, if you Google "Fox news aplogizes", that won't work... too many apologies for too many errors to sort through!! Wow.

Ahhh, the disconnect. We are talking about two different videos.

 

I was referring to one linked above. It is in the CNN and MSNBC articles.

[Matryoshka]

Ahhh, the disconnect. We are talking about two different videos.

 

I was referring to one linked above. It is in the CNN and MSNBC articles.

 

Ah, that's why I asked where this was coming from, as I'd only heard about the one I linked. 

 

Boo to anyone who chanted anything like that!  Like the woman in DC (whose chant was edited) said: "You'd have to be an idiot -- someone that hates -- to say 'kill somebody,' especially some cops that I need to protect my family," Jones said in that interview. "We need the cops. My community needs the cops."

 

[Lisbeth]

I saw nobody saying there should be no protests in Ferguson (or about Ferguson). I did see people saying protestors should not be looting, or calling for cops to be killed, or violently protesting things that aren't actually happening, or physically hurting and even killing people and calling that a "protest."

 

Turning one's back on the mayor really isn't comparable is it?

Amen!

[LucyStoner]

 

I found a couple of CNN stories on this. The chant here "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now." So yes, protesters are calling for cops to be killed.

 

A video of this was found on the assassin's phone. Officers in Los Angeles and FL were shot at today while simply sitting in their cars. Fortunately none were injured but there are 2 suspects at large.

That is hardly all or even a sizable minority of protesters.

[Laurie4b]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protest-leaders-seek-to-distance-budding-movement-from-new-york-police-killings/2014/12/21/3ede9b1c-8948-11e4-8ff4-fb93129c9c8b_story.html

 

This Washington Post article does seem to indicate there was a protest in NYC calling for the killing of law enforcement officers. They don't absolutely authenticate it but they link it.

 

I think it's very important to keep noting that Eric Garner's widow, his mother , and one of his daughters of Eric Garner have all expressed sympathy to and solidarity with the families of the officers killed. http://www.business2community.com/us-news/eric-garners-mother-widow-express-sorrow-slain-nypd-officers-01104066  "I am standing here in sorrow about losing those two police officers." http://mic.com/articles/107056/eric-garner-s-daughter-had-the-best-response-to-the-nypd-cop-killings Daughter Emerald placed a wreath at the memorial and said, "I just had to come out and let their family know that we stand with them, and I'm going to send my prayers and condolences to all the families who are suffering through this tragedy,"

 

So, too, did some NYC protestors express their mourning: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nypd-fourth-arrest-garner-protest-attack-cops-article-1.2051854

 

Can we not mourn all 3 deaths? 

[Miss Peregrine]

That is hardly all or even a sizable minority of protesters.

NBD

[Laurie4b]

Could you please link me to a reputable news source that says that any protesters anywhere chanted Death to Police?  Because the only place I've heard that reported was by that Fox news reporter who edited a chant that did not say that to sound like it did, and has since had to publicly apologize for her inflammatory and downright completely inaccurate reporting.

 

If that indeed is the only place that this 'happened', I guess Fox is to blame, not the protesters, for putting that out there and fanning the flames.

 

I had read it multiple times in several news sources--enough to have reason to believe that it had happened without actually tracking it down. I had already posted a link to the Washington Post article before I saw that you asked this.

[Laurie4b]

NBD

 

Do you think  Lucy was saying "No big deal" in response to the death chants for officers?

 

Having read many of her posts over the years, I think she is vehemently against violence. I think that rather than "no big deal" she is probably making the point that the vast majority of protestors support police in general but want specific reforms and are sorry for the officers' deaths and that the ones involved in that chant were an unrepresentative minority.

 

I think it's really important for people in protest movements to be able to say, "That group does not represent us." (Similarly to how Muslims are saying, "Daesh is not Muslim. It does not represent us. It is anti-Muslim even if they claim association with us. We reject that association." ) If pne doesn't allow groups to define who is "outside" their group, extremists win by their ability to associate with the legitimate majority.

[Miss Peregrine]

I think it was very casually dismissive of 2ngen's comment that yes, some people are calling for the deaths of officers.

 

I don't think anyone believes that the majority if protestors do. The articles I read were very clear that this was a side protest on the same day as the march but clearly not officially part of it.

[LucyStoner]

Miss Peregrine, no one can possibly, in any seriousness, think that I condone violence or think it is "no big deal". I come from a very pro-life, non-violent religious background with parents who lived their non-violent values. The repeated pattern to say that anyone not 100% supportive of the police is tantamount to a cop killer or someone who doesn't think cop killing is a big deal is just a big leap and unreasonable. My mother was a very sincere prolife activist. She was not Eric Rudolph nor would it have been fair to say that she supported his crimes or wrote them off as no big deal. There are violent crackpots of every stripe. It is not ok to conflate a whole movement with the few crackpots. The police don't want to be judged, and shouldn't all be judged by, the ones who have killed 12 year old kids or choked middle aged infirm men.

 

ETA- you can find some people saying just about anything. "NBD" was as causally dismissive of me as you are accusing me of being. I think the sum total of who I am is anything but casually dismissive of the loss of any human life.

[Miss Peregrine]

Miss Peregrine, no one can possibly, in any seriousness, think that I condone violence or think it is "no big deal". I come from a very pro-life, non-violent religious background with parents who lived their non-violent values. The repeated pattern to say that anyone not 100% supportive of the police is tantamount to a cop killer or someone who doesn't think cop killing is a big deal is just a big leap and unreasonable. My mother was a very sincere prolife activist. She was not Eric Rudolph nor would it have been fair to say that she supported his crimes or wrote them off as no big deal. There are violent crackpots of every stripe. It is not ok to conflate a whole movement with the few crackpots. The police don't want to be judged, and shouldn't all be judged by, the ones who have killed 12 year old kids or choked middle aged infirm men.

Right. And I don't see where anyone conflated the crackpots with the whole march. Where?

 

I also don't see where those who don't agree 100% with the police are being called cop killers.

 

 

On another note, I apologize if my misunderstanding of your meaning hurt you.

[LucyStoner]

Right. And I don't see where anyone conflated the crackpots with the whole march. Where?

 

I also don't see where those who don't agree 100% with the police are being called cop killers.

 

 

On another note, I apologize if my misunderstanding of your meaning hurt you.

It has been stated, here and on the mass of commentary all over tarnation, time and time again, generically that protesters are calling for LEOs deaths. That Di Blasio has blood on his hands for not being anti the protests. That is inherently inflammatory rhetoric. Generally every time that is said, it is important to modify that for accuracy. The post I responded to said protestors. Not some, not a few. Protesters. That implies that these people are representative of the protesters rather than an anomaly and they are not. They are a very small number. Why not be very clear about that unless the goal is to advance the claim that the protesters are in some way, directly or indirectly culpable for these most recent crimes?

[Miss Peregrine]

I don't agree that the word "protestors" implies all but that's okay.

 

I thought I was clear in my first post about the video that it was not part of the march.