Can we talk about dogs, puppies, buying, adoption?

[SKL]

We had one dog during most of my childhood.  It was always a mutt, either a "free puppy" from the neighborhood, or a dog someone rescued off the street and gave to us.  They generally lived in a doghouse in our yard, on a chain.  My siblings and I didn't have a lot to do other than play in the yard and the neighborhood (outside of school hours), so the dogs got enough attention and exercise.  If they were lucky, they could help sweep the kitchen floor after supper.  ;)  If they got sick, we'd investigate the problem and give meds if necessary, but there was no concept of taking extraordinary life-saving measures for a dog that isn't going to live very long anyway.  (FTR none of our outdoor dogs died young.)  The living conditions were not Park Avenue, but they were pretty standard for the time - the dogs got used to having lots of "down time" to contemplate life and to the fact that wherever they pooped (in the yard) was going to stay poopy for some time.  Dogs are designed to get used to what their owners decide for them and are generally OK with it, as long as they are not in physical discomfort.  Especially if they are pretty young when they join their forever family.  What has changed today is that some people seem to think dogs are children, which they are not.  Actually some people seem to care more for dogs than for children, which seems strange to me.

[SKL]

I don't remember my parents ever spending time training, supervising, teaching, finding "work" and play for our dogs. They just were. I don't remember vet visits beyond emergencies. I don't remember needing breed specific information in terms of care, feeding, socialization. Heck, I don't remember socialization being an issue at all.  We just had dogs.

 

I've read the most about pet ownership here, but that is more a function of this having been my most consistent forum over the last 15+ years - not because I think the topic is limited to here.

 

There are books, sites, magazines, stores and a whole industry that has emerged in terms of pet - especially dog - ownership. None of this existed when I was growing up (60's, 70's and 80's).

 

It IS different than I knew, and I was not ready or prepared to be what is considered today to be a responsible dog owner.

 

I was born in 1966 in a working-class neighborhood.  I remember borrowing books about pet care from the library, and I remember brief (free) summer programs about pet training at the playground in summer.  My parents gave us the basics about how to train a dog to sit, come, how to housetrain etc., tried different foods until we determined which was best for the particular dog, made sure the chain was positioned to ensure max safety/movement etc, and I am sure they monitored to make sure the dog was not neglected.  I would assume most parents with dogs did similar.  I think kids underestimate how much parents are watching and doing behind the scenes.

[hornblower]

Omg. A chain, a doghouse?

 

See, that has changed in many places, and I'm glad.

 

Just as said on the first page, we've come a long way about how we think about orphan children. We're making those same strides for animals.

 

I'm an animal rights activist so this goes beyond dogs for me. But certainly we are working hard to make chaining and yard dogs a thing of the past. Dogs deserve better than just freedom from pain.

[SKL]

Omg. A chain, a doghouse?

 

See, that has changed in many places, and I'm glad.

 

Just as said on the first page, we've come a long way about how we think about orphan children. We're making those same strides for animals.

 

I'm an animal rights activist so this goes beyond dogs for me. But certainly we are working hard to make chaining and yard dogs a thing of the past. Dogs deserve better than just freedom from pain.

 

There certainly is a range of views about this.  My view is that dogs don't have to be treated like humans in order to be happy.  Of course we can't ask a dog to weigh in on this, but I believe a dog can be happy - perhaps even happier - in a yard, and even on a chain.  Dogs are designed to be outdoors in the elements.  Now a humane chain setup can be high maintenance for the owners, so for those who have other good options for letting their dogs play outside, that's great.

[unsinkable]

Omg. A chain, a doghouse?

 

See, that has changed in many places, and I'm glad.

 

Just as said on the first page, we've come a long way about how we think about orphan children. We're making those same strides for animals.

 

I'm an animal rights activist so this goes beyond dogs for me. But certainly we are working hard to make chaining and yard dogs a thing of the past. Dogs deserve better than just freedom from pain.

SKL said the chain and doghouse was from when she was a child...in the 60s and 70s.

 

Not now.

 

I just want to make sure that is clear before this goes off the rails.

[wintermom]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but this is one of the main reasons why someone should run, not walk away from a person/group that tells them they are going to train a puppy for them as a service dog. These are also the same groups that charge them tens of thousands of dollars. Not all dogs are meant to be service dogs. Even organizations that have been around for decades, specifically breed for the traits needed, accept that only about 20% of those puppies make 'the cut." Off my soapbox.

 

 

This sounds like a very specific example you are giving, and certainly NOT my experience at all. Are you talking about a for-profit group? There are quality organizations that don't do any of these things, and their success rates for service dogs are much higher. 

 

While I'm sure you'd like to warn people, not all organizations are like this. 

[Lizzie in Ma]

I think there is also a different expectation of the role of rescues. I see people post on this forum *all the time* saying to find a rescue to help rehome a dog someone is having trouble with. The rescue I have worked with and fostered for before (we're too busy right now, but we still support them) and other similar rescues in the area only rarely do owner intakes in very extreme situations. The majority of their dogs are pulled from the high-kill animal control facilities in the area. They just don't have the time and money and resources to help everyone who wants to get rid of a dog because they never bothered to get it housetrained. They are trying to get dogs out of the kill shelters before they are euthanized for space. They save a lot of them, but a lot are still put to sleep. They are there to rescue dogs from death, not to rescue poorly prepared owners from taking responsibility for the animals they took on. That sounds much harsher than I intend it to, and I know rescues work differently in other areas. There just seems to be a very different idea of the purpose of rescues than the actual mission of a lot of rescue groups.

 

My friend Bernie does that, it is so heartbreaking for her to go in with limited funds and rescue dogs that have a chance at getting adopted.  She has to make unbearable choices.  Her shelter is in Virginia, A Place to Bark.  She is one of my heroes.

 

[SKL]

Re "yard dogs":  I would prefer for animal activists to focus on real abuse and on preventing the birth of so many unwanted puppies.  There is certainly plenty to do in those areas.

[BarbecueMom]

I feel like I'm reading a foreign language on this thread. I don't have, want, or like dogs, and it used to be that the only difference between someone like me and a dog owner was a dog. Now there are people like me, and there are "dog people", and it seems there's some expectation of "well everyone knows THAT!" in regards to all of the aspects of dog ownership, even for non-owners like me.

 

I often end up the only non-dog person in a group, and I get this look like I just walked into a LLL meeting with a Similac swag bag. Bewilderment that I'm completely (and willingly) ignorant about all things canine, and maybe with a bit of hope that I'll be shamed into conversion. I certainly don't want any animals to suffer, but I'm quite uncomfortable when I'm immersed in dog culture, and sometimes wonder if I'm the only one.

[Matryoshka]

We just got our first dog earlier this year.  (Well, our family had a dog extremely briefly when I was a kid, but that was pretty much an exercise in 'what to do wrong' - we got it free from a neighbor, parents pretty much just let it run around outside, and pretty soon it just disappeared...)

 

So, anyway, dh and I (and two of three dds) are cat people.  But dh and I are also generally animal lovers and responsible pet-owners, and part of the reason we never wanted a dog is that we knew how much work they are.  Dd the youngest begged for years. I knew I only wanted a dog I could manage.  So, I was really, really, really picky.  Had to be not to big (too much exercise needed, house is small), not too small (yappy, and heck what's up with those anal gland problems in tiny dogs??!). had to get along well with the cats (they were here first!), not a big shedder, had to be already crate-trained and house-trained (not a puppy!!! - in fact, old enough to be calmed down and over puppy-like behavior),  Oh, and it had to be a local adoption, as I was firm that we needed at least a two-week trial period to make sure that the dog could get on with the cats, wasn't destructive, or do things like pee all over the house.  That was a tough one, as a huge number of the dogs listed here are actually somewhere down south and want you to agree to a blind adoption.  No, no, no.

 

We finally did find a dog that fit all those criteria.  We got him from a breed rescue (not a shelter).  We did try shelters first, but they had 95% pit bulls and chihuahuas.  Um, no.  He is a mix, not a pure-breed - a mix, in fact, of the two breeds the rescue specialized in, so it turns out he's also quite pretty, although that was not one of my criteria ;) . He did actually end up coming from down south, but he came to a local rescue first, and that's who we worked with.  Dd now appreciates that I was so picky, even though she complained bitterly when she was still waiting.  Because we were picky, the dog fits in well with the family and hasn't been a ton of extra work.  We also hired an in-home trainer right after we got him to show us how to train a dog, as we'd not had much (well, any) experience and I thought a lesson would be better than a book.

 

I know I could never, ever, handle a puppy.  One of my friends just got a new puppy, from a breeder.  Cute, cute, cute ball of fluff!  Nice to visit! ;)

[Joanne]

Yep, we are so concerned about animals, even more than people these days or at least that is the way it feels to me. We cry over mistreatment of dogs and yet children are living in garbage dumps and ignored.   They are not humans.  They are animals.  They don't deserve to be mistreated, but they don't deserve houses of gold either...  They are just animals.

 

I don't know that "children are living in garbage dumps and ignored" is an accurate or supportable stand.

 

I also don't think that "we" need to make sure all human needs are addressed before discussing other, also existing needs. It's bad logic.

[Spy Car]

We had one dog during most of my childhood. It was always a mutt, either a "free puppy" from the neighborhood, or a dog someone rescued off the street and gave to us. They generally lived in a doghouse in our yard, on a chain. My siblings and I didn't have a lot to do other than play in the yard and the neighborhood (outside of school hours), so the dogs got enough attention and exercise. If they were lucky, they could help sweep the kitchen floor after supper. ;) If they got sick, we'd investigate the problem and give meds if necessary, but there was no concept of taking extraordinary life-saving measures for a dog that isn't going to live very long anyway. (FTR none of our outdoor dogs died young.) The living conditions were not Park Avenue, but they were pretty standard for the time - the dogs got used to having lots of "down time" to contemplate life and to the fact that wherever they pooped (in the yard) was going to stay poopy for some time. Dogs are designed to get used to what their owners decide for them and are generally OK with it, as long as they are not in physical discomfort. Especially if they are pretty young when they join their forever family. What has changed today is that some people seem to think dogs are children, which they are not. Actually some people seem to care more for dogs than for children, which seems strange to me.

I think the comments about chains and living in poop make Joanne's point for her.

 

Bill

[Joanne]

I agree, but I do not think all animals being inside animals  should be a default position.  What next, all birds inside??  My cat and dogs enjoy being outside.  They were made by God to be outside !!!! 

 

This is also not a supportable position. :confused1:

 

However, I do think it is interesting that raw food for pets advocates rely on evolution and nature to support THAT stand, and are often the same people who are against outside pets.

[SKL]

One of the reasons so many dogs are in shelters (or euthanized) is because people have gone way overboard in defining "responsible pet ownership."  I guess it's better for the dogs to live in cement cells and pee on the floor and get almost no human interaction.

[SKL]

How can anyone be against outside pets?  I can understand the chain arguments, but who decided that pets are better off indoors?  Let me go capture the neighborhood foxes and coyotes and bring them inside my house and see if they are happier here.  Then I'll report back.  Wait, I think I already know the answer.  Evolution designed the dog family to live outdoors.  Unless we're talking about a breed specifically designed to live only indoors, which is not what people here are talking about.

[Corraleno]

They were made by God to be outside !!!! 

 

Actually, domesticated cats and dogs were specifically  bred by humans — a tabby cat is not a lion and a Yorkie is not a wolf. Some dogs were bred by humans to be working dogs, like sled dogs and LGDs, and those do generally prefer to be outside. But many domestic dog breeds were specifically bred to be companions for humans, and they see people as their "pack." No dog, of any breed, is happy being left on a chain in the yard all the time. A working dog should have a job, and companion dogs should have companions.

[hornblower]

"they are just dogs" and "they are just animals" does not compute for me.  See: Speciesism

My compassion is for all living creatures. It's not an either/or.


I think the biggest problem I have is that people don't seem to understand what the vast, vast majority of dogs are capable of. Everyone cheers for the search & rescue dogs after a disaster but the fact is that almost all dogs can be trained in basic nosework. All dogs can be taught to do fun tricks or to help you by fetching your tv remote. Dogs are capable of so much more than just sitting in your yard. We have been genetically selecting them for companionship more than anything else & they are uniquely motivated to stay near us & do stuff for us.

Doesn't this puppy look like it's having a blast?

http://youtu.be/kGGNP9bIeUg?list=UUC9e_MCAXl7VvDwsHnGd6hw


 

[BarbecueMom]

Yep, we are so concerned about animals, even more than people these days or at least that is the way it feels to me. We cry over mistreatment of dogs and yet children are living in garbage dumps and ignored. They are not humans. They are animals. They don't deserve to be mistreated, but they don't deserve houses of gold either... They are just animals.

That's... not really what I was trying to say. Just that there's a certain, I don't know, subconscious snobbery going on. I totally support dog owners being responsible and educated, but being aghast that there are people out there that have no desire to be around dogs, let alone know different breeds or diets, is just weird. I'm not sure that dog owners intend this though, or realize how their passion is coming across.

[SKL]

OK and part of the problem is that kids don't play (or work) outside much any more.  Which I think is a problem.  Kids and dogs should both be outside playing.  When I was a kid, a "yard dog" had plenty of interaction because the "yard" is where kids spent most of their free time.

[zimom]

This sounds like a very specific example you are giving, and certainly NOT my experience at all. Are you talking about a for-profit group? There are quality organizations that don't do any of these things, and their success rates for service dogs are much higher. 

 

While I'm sure you'd like to warn people, not all organizations are like this. 

 

Will take this to pm

[hornblower]

That's... not really what I was trying to say. Just that there's a certain, I don't know, subconscious snobbery going on. I totally support dog owners being responsible and educated, but being aghast that there are people out there that have no desire to be around dogs, let alone know different breeds or diets, is just weird. I'm not sure that dog owners intend this though, or realize how their passion is coming across.

 

I don't understand what you're saying. If someone is not into dogs, I don't expect them to know much about them. I wish everyone loved dogs as much as I do but I understand that there are people who don't. 

If they're going to get a dog, I expect them to learn before they get one though.

 

Every group has its fans & aficionados. I've been a dog lover all my life but I know little about horses. When I hang around horse people (dd rode for a few years) I don't understand 9/10's of what they are talking about. If I were going to buy a horse, I'd do a lot of learning & try to find a group to mentor me IRL or online about "all things horse".

[Mergath]

How can anyone be against outside pets?  I can understand the chain arguments, but who decided that pets are better off indoors?  Let me go capture the neighborhood foxes and coyotes and bring them inside my house and see if they are happier here.  Then I'll report back.  Wait, I think I already know the answer.  Evolution designed the dog family to live outdoors.  Unless we're talking about a breed specifically designed to live only indoors, which is not what people here are talking about.

 

The fact that, where I live, my cats (and almost any domesticated pet) would die outside in the winter is a pretty compelling argument.

[SKL]

I think the comments about chains and living in poop make Joanne's point for her.

 

Bill

 

Funny thing though, we force our kids (often up to age 3-4) to wear diapers so their waste is stuck to their butt until we get around to changing them, and then most of us put the poopy diapers in some receptacle in or near the kids' play area.   Not sure how the same people can then get upset about a dog having one corner of his yard designated for poop.  ...  And most of us crate our babies all night and part of the day (together with their own waste) and never question it.

 

Last week someone I know was threatened with arrest for leaving her dog in a crate in a car (cool weather, not sunny nor freezing) for 1 hour.   She later googled that city's ordinances (she lives elsewhere) and I can't remember the details, but they were ridiculous - not allowed to crate your dog ever for more than 2 hours at a time, among other things.  Clearly they expect people to treat dogs better than children.

[hornblower]

for the outside/inside argument, my challenge is put in an unlocked pet door & let the dog choose whether they'd rather be in or out.  I have a malamute mix.  She likes to play in snow for a bit but will not stay outside otherwise. She's actually not keen on being cold at all.
In the summer, she enjoys being in the sun or digging herself a hole under the deck stairs & napping in that earthy shade.  My setter adores chasing birds in the yard.  Bear actually wants to go lie down on the deck when it's cold. He likes to breathe the air for about 10 mins & then he's back inside on his heated pad. 

 

I have fostered a livestock guardian breed as well - he slept on my dd's bed given the choice....

They all enjoy being outside, going to the beach, going to the forest. But they enjoy being with people more.

 

[Mergath]

Funny thing though, we force our kids (often up to age 3-4) to wear diapers so their waste is stuck to their butt until we get around to changing them, and then most of us put the poopy diapers in some receptacle in or near the kids' play area.   Not sure how the same people can then get upset about a dog having one corner of his yard designated for poop.  ...  And most of us crate our babies all night and part of the day (together with their own waste) and never question it.

 

Last week someone I know was threatened with arrest for leaving her dog in a crate in a car (cool weather, not sunny nor freezing) for 1 hour.   She later googled that city's ordinances (she lives elsewhere) and I can't remember the details, but they were ridiculous - not allowed to crate your dog ever for more than 2 hours at a time, among other things.  Clearly they expect people to treat dogs better than children.

 

Oh, totally.  I often crate my child for three, four hours at a time.

 

;)

[unsinkable]

This is yet another thread that has devolved into people beating each other over the head...no one's mind gets changed when they are being insulted.

 

I love my dogs. They have brought so much peace and joy to my life.

 

I think I'm a middle of the road dog owner. I bought a purebred lab puppy from a vet ( neutered at 8 months) Adopted a adult boxer ( never spayed )when her owner died. Adopted a puppy born from a pregnant dumped JRT (neutered at 11 months ).

 

They all live(d) inside. All eat/ate Purina that I buy at the grocery store. They all live(d) in my house. They poop(ed) in the yard and we pick it up every couple days. I sleep with them. My Lab loved to shower with me. He kept me going during the darkest times after my parents died. My JRT mix is my DD's unofficial therapy dog when she has seizures...he cuddles with her when she is post-ictal.

 

I volunteered at a shelter. I support spaying and neutering...early, late, just do it before any more puppies or kitties are conceived. I used to donate to our local shelter but now I give that money to the local emergency vet fund that helps people who can't pay for emergency vet care.

 

I take them to the vet yearly and if they are sick. I'd probably be screwed if we got a huge vet bill (in the thousands).

 

I don't think responsible pet ownership is out of reach for most people.

[SKL]

The fact that, where I live, my cats (and almost any domesticated pet) would die outside in the winter is a pretty compelling argument.

 

If that's true, I guess there would not be many animals to rescue.

 

That is not the case in most US locations.  Animals have fur for a reason.  When it is super cold, responsible pet owners bring their pets indoors except for potty breaks.  This has always been a routine part of pet ownership as long as I've been alive.  They used to even say on the evening news, "it's gong to be cold tonight, be sure your critters have a warm place to sleep."  Do they still do that nowadays?

 

Also, doghouses are filled with straw (or alternative) in the winter so the dogs can keep warm.

[Mergath]

If that's true, I guess there would not be many animals to rescue.

 

That is not the case in most US locations.  Animals have fur for a reason.  When it is super cold, responsible pet owners bring their pets indoors except for potty breaks.  This has always been a routine part of pet ownership as long as I've been alive.  They used to even say on the evening news, "it's gong to be cold tonight, be sure your critters have a warm place to sleep."  Do they still do that nowadays?

 

Also, doghouses are filled with straw (or alternative) in the winter so the dogs can keep warm.

 

They don't say that on the news because I think they expect people to just know.  When it's thirty below zero for a month at a time, not much can survive outside.  Even a good portion of the wild animals die in that kind of cold.  In the winter here, if you see a pet outside, you bring it in even if it's not your own until you can find the owner.  Pets being inside during the winter here is the default.

[SKL]

Oh, totally.  I often crate my child for three, four hours at a time.

 

;)

 

I don't know about you personally, but most Americans put their babies in cribs to sleep and some use pens durign playtime etc.  In a car we are required to tie our kids down tightly in a very small space.  All together the average American baby/tot is essentially crated for many hours per day.

 

[BarbecueMom]

I don't understand what you're saying. If someone is not into dogs, I don't expect them to know much about them. I wish everyone loved dogs as much as I do but I understand that there are people who don't.

If they're going to get a dog, I expect them to learn before they get one though.

 

Every group has its fans & aficionados. I've been a dog lover all my life but I know little about horses. When I hang around horse people (dd rode for a few years) I don't understand 9/10's of what they are talking about. If I were going to buy a horse, I'd do a lot of learning & try to find a group to mentor me IRL or online about "all things horse".

I guess I must run into the over zealous types. Or I just spend a lot of time on the outside not knowing 9/10 of the conversation, and getting that "look". Which is true of many hobbies, but I didn't notice dog ownership becoming it's own culture until a few years ago. Just something you notice from the outside looking in.

[Corraleno]

Funny thing though, we force our kids (often up to age 3-4) to wear diapers so their waste is stuck to their butt until we get around to changing them, and then most of us put the poopy diapers in some receptacle in or near the kids' play area.   Not sure how the same people can then get upset about a dog having one corner of his yard designated for poop.  ...  And most of us crate our babies all night and part of the day (together with their own waste) and never question it.

 

Unless one is throwing the dirty diapers in the corner of the bedroom and leaving them there for a few weeks without disposing of them (which would be grounds for CPS involvement), this isn't really a parallel situation. Even in the wild, canine species never live in their own filth. So in that way I guess they have more sense than some humans — the idea of a big pile of dog feces in your own backyard doesn't gross you out?  :confused1: 

 

Comparing a baby in a crib, indoors and within reach of his or her parents, to a dog left alone outside all night also doesn't work.

[BarbecueMom]

Oh, totally. I often crate my child for three, four hours at a time.

 

;)

I paid $30 to take my kids to a hands-on children's museum place, where they went back to the pretend vet clinic and spent a significant portion of time sitting in the animal cages.

 

Sometimes I try to recreate their favorite exhibits at home, but that one might get me in trouble.

[SKL]

They don't say that on the news because I think they expect people to just know.  When it's thirty below zero for a month at a time, not much can survive outside.  Even a good portion of the wild animals die in that kind of cold.  In the winter here, if you see a pet outside, you bring it in even if it's not your own until you can find the owner.  Pets being inside during the winter here is the default.

 

OK then in your location, a yard pet in winter isn't workable.  That is not the case in most of the US.  So being "against yard pets" as a principle cannot be explained by the fact that some climates don't permit that at some times of the year.

 

Not in reply to you, but I'm not saying I'm against indoor pets.  I'm saying I don't see how people can be against outdoor pets (obviously assuming the owner ensures the pet is not freezing etc., which I agree should be a given).

[Mergath]

I don't know about you personally, but most Americans put their babies in cribs to sleep and some use pens durign playtime etc.  In a car we are required to tie our kids down tightly in a very small space.  All together the average American baby/tot is essentially crated for many hours per day.

 

 

It's funny you mention that- one of the reasons we never used a crib and co-slept is a story an Anthropology professor told me once, where he was visiting Africa (I can't remember which country it was) and had a man approach him and ask, "Is it true that American parents make their babies sleep in cages?"  I could never bring myself to use a crib after hearing that.  I think I must be claustrophobic or something.  I really dislike the idea of being caged.  I know most people don't have a problem with crating, though.

[unsinkable]

Dogs will poop in the same spot in their yards...usually a back corner. It's easy to pick up.

 

Chained dogs will walk to the end of their chain, turn around and poop away from where they walk. Again, easy to pick up.

 

This is rocket science and it's not something to fight about.

 

Jeez.

[Corraleno]

Both my babies and my dogs co-sleep.  :)  But I don't have a problem with people crating dogs overnight or for short periods during the day.

[Mergath]

Both my babies and my dogs co-sleep.  :)  But I don't have a problem with people crating dogs overnight or for short periods during the day. 

 

I don't either.  Though I do get frustrated with people who crate their dogs for twelve hours during the day while they work, and then can't understand why the dog is hyper and won't let them sleep at night.

[unsinkable]

OK then in your location, a yard pet in winter isn't workable. That is not the case in most of the US. So being "against yard pets" as a principle cannot be explained by the fact that some climates don't permit that at some times of the year.

 

Not in reply to you, but I'm not saying I'm against indoor pets. I'm saying I don't see how people can be against outdoor pets (obviously assuming the owner ensures the pet is not freezing etc., which I agree should be a given).

Consider the sources. Some people really don't want to advance the conversation.

[Mergath]

Consider the sources. Some people really don't want to advance the conversation.

 

Well that was rude.

[SKL]

Unless one is throwing the dirty diapers in the corner of the bedroom and leaving them there for a few weeks without disposing of them (which would be grounds for CPS involvement), this isn't really a parallel situation. Even in the wild, canine species never live in their own filth. So in that way I guess they have more sense than some humans — the idea of a big pile of dog feces in your own backyard doesn't gross you out?  :confused1: 

 

Comparing a baby in a crib, indoors and within reach of his or her parents, to a dog left alone outside all night also doesn't work.

 

Where did I say dogs should live "in" their own filth or have a "big pile" of dog feces in the yard?

 

You can train a dog to poop in one area which leaves lots of clean play space.  Some dogs will do this on their own.

 

You know, there are billions of humans who don't have running water and don't have someone coming and removing their poop for them so they never have to smell it.  Sad but true.  When I was a kid, we would remove the dog poop often enough that it didn't pile up, but not every time they pooped as seems to be expected today.  No wonder "responsible" pet ownership is exhausting.

 

Dogs don't have the same sensitivities as people.  I mean, they will lick their privates all day long, lick people's nasty feet, eat their own vomit ... I just don't think they care that much about having their own turds in the yard.  Nobody is suggesting they sit in the turds.  Shoot, my yard is full of deer poop and my kids and I manage to deal with it.

 

As for baby diapers - they even sell expensive products to hold poopy diapers (and they still stink like poop, container or no container).  Personally I always sent my kids' poop down the toilet and took the diapers to the garage immediately, but that is not the norm in the US.  People are OK with baby poop in the nursery so how can one get upset about dog poop in the yard?

[Corraleno]

nevermind

[Joanne]

Actually, domesticated cats and dogs were specifically  bred by humans — a tabby cat is not a lion and a Yorkie is not a wolf. Some dogs were bred by humans to be working dogs, like sled dogs and LGDs, and those do generally prefer to be outside. But many domestic dog breeds were specifically bred to be companions for humans, and they see people as their "pack." No dog, of any breed, is happy being left on a chain in the yard all the time. A working dog should have a job, and companion dogs should have companions.

 

Ok. I can wrap my brain around that.

 

[unsinkable]

 

Yes, it is easy to pick up. So when someone posts that dogs tied on chains in the backyard just "got used to having lots of "down time" to contemplate life and to the fact that wherever they pooped (in the yard) was going to stay poopy for some time," I found the idea of not picking it up, and just letting it pile up, gross.

If you're talking about SKL's posts...she was referring to her childhood experiences...from the 60s and 70s.

 

There are 2 dogs in my neighborhood who the people chain in their front yard for several hours a day. The poop piles are in a semi-circle on the very edge of the length of the chain. The dogs aren't IN the poop, but it isn't picked up daily.

 

It would be WEEKS and WEEKS of not picking up poop before these dogs would need to start pooping in their chained areas.

 

Is it what I want for my dog? Nope. Is it abusive? Nope. The poop gets picked up eventually.

[hornblower]

Unchain Your Dog  -  if anyone is curious about this issue & why advocates are working on it. It is not only inhumane, it's a large contributor to aggression. If it makes even one person pause & think about how to take care of a current or future dog, then I think it is "advancing the conversation"

 

 

[unsinkable]

Well that was rude.

It is not. It's a fact that people who twist and nitpick and take out of context other people's posts are not trying to advance the conversation.

[hornblower]

I think it's important to say that for those involved in animal rescue, chaining & yard dogs are not a thing of the past. They're happening now.

Here are pix from a very recent rescue which several organizations were involved in. Most of these dogs are still in care as they have significant medical & behavioral needs.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.538267752971476.1073741846.399487073516212&type=1 

[Pawz4me]

How can anyone be against outside pets?  I can understand the chain arguments, but who decided that pets are better off indoors?  Let me go capture the neighborhood foxes and coyotes and bring them inside my house and see if they are happier here.  Then I'll report back.  Wait, I think I already know the answer.  Evolution designed the dog family to live outdoors.  Unless we're talking about a breed specifically designed to live only indoors, which is not what people here are talking about.

 

I'm not against outside dogs if the dog has a legitimate outside job to do (livestock guardian, herding dog, etc.).  Or if the dog has a companion and plenty of safely fenced room to move around and plenty of toys to help pass the time.

 

I'm very much against single outside dogs.  They're pack animals.  They need companionship.

 

I'm absolutely against chaining.  It's inhumane.  Period.

[Pawz4me]

How can anyone be against outside pets?  I can understand the chain arguments, but who decided that pets are better off indoors?  Let me go capture the neighborhood foxes and coyotes and bring them inside my house and see if they are happier here.  Then I'll report back.  Wait, I think I already know the answer.  Evolution designed the dog family to live outdoors.  Unless we're talking about a breed specifically designed to live only indoors, which is not what people here are talking about.

 

I'm not against outside dogs if the dog has a legitimate outside job to do (livestock guardian, herding dog, etc.).  Or if the dog has a companion and plenty of safely fenced room to move around and plenty of toys to help pass the time.

 

I'm very much against single outside pet dogs (w/o a job).  Dogs are pack animals.  They need companionship.

 

I'm absolutely against chaining.  It's inhumane.  Period.

[unsinkable]

I'm not against outside dogs if the dog has a legitimate outside job to do (livestock guardian, herding dog, etc.). Or if the dog has a companion and plenty of safely fenced room to move around and plenty of toys to help pass the time.

 

I'm very much against single outside pet dogs (w/o a job). Dogs are pack animals. They need companionship.

 

I'm absolutely against chaining. It's inhumane. Period.

The dogs I see chained are chained for a few hours every day. They are in the house otherwise. One goes for regular walks.

 

Their owners do not have fenced backyards.

 

I don't know what happened to the rest of what I wrote...but the gist of it was:

 

I think it fine for those dogs and not inhumane. AFAIK, they only do it when someone is home.

 

And I much rather them have the joy of having a dog who is on a chain for a few hours a day than not have a dog at all.

[SKL]

None of my family currently chains dogs.  My parents' most recent dogs were house dogs but they would go out on a chain to relieve themselves because otherwise they needed to be chased all around town.  My parents were not always able to go out and walk the dog for every potty break.  My sister keeps her dogs in large fenced kennels once they are big enough to need the space.  My brother (who lives in the boonies) lets his dogs run free on his property.

 

That said, dogs who are brought into a family very young and are routinely chained generally get used to it.  If they are then sent out without a chain, they will often get upset and afraid or demand to be chained.  Just like some dogs freak out if their collar is removed.  It's in the nature of many domestic dogs to find out what the rules are and follow them without question.  A chain does not hurt a dog (normally) and (normally) does not prevent a dog from doing what a dog needs to do.

 

So, I don't think a chain is inhumane per se.  Yes, some people who have chained their dogs have also been inhumane.  Those are the ones you hear about.  You don't hear about all the chained dogs who are/were healthy and content.

 

Nowadays we have the option to install electric fences and other fairly accessible alternatives to the chain.  That is great and if it appeases the activists, even better.  So now people are not used to seeing a healthy, happy dog on a chain.  Just like people aren't used to young kids playing outside "unsupervised," or a lot of other things that concern somepeople now for questionable reasons.