Talk me down before I send this e-mail. I'm not the right kind of Christian to mentor an orphan.

[brehon]

Oh, and Aimee, you should not blame yourself one iota. The woman who recruited you should have been upfront from the beginning. Plus, please make sure that this info regarding religious requirements is very clearly disseminated in whichever group(s) this woman might advertise the organization.

 

And stop blaming yourself.

 

 

 

 

No, just stop. You did nothing wrong.

[SKL]

They should have advertised the volunteer opportunity like this:  "Looking for evangelical protestant adults to volunteer as mentors for _____."

 

It was a make or break requirement that would not be obvious unless made explicit.  (Not like "must not be a pedophile" which should be obvious without an up-front statement.)

 

If it wasn't stated in the advertisement, it should have been stated in the very first one-to-one communication with the candidate.

 

It is completely unrealistic to expect volunteers to do a bunch of research to confirm their own qualifications.  Volunteers have a broad range of tech savvy among other things.

 

Now that I've seen all that language from the website, I'm thinking the person screening the volunteers was not properly trained and the recruitment procedure not well designed.  That needs to change.

[AimeeM]

What I'm scratching my head over is how this process happens (sorry if this is really a S/O).  I don't know anything about how orphanages or the foster system works, but it seems bizarre to me that private organizations can become guardians of children.  If, God forbid, a Catholic family died in a car crash, leaving a young child behind with no other family, might that child end up in this orphanage?

Yes, I believe they can take guardianship over any child. Well, I can't imagine how they wouldn't be able to - the children are in the system, in the first place, because they "have nobody". I talked to Marco's EI the other day when she was here for his play therapy (she's a foster parent), and I asked her under what circumstance a child (who is a ward of  the state) would be placed in a private chlldren's home instead of a foster home, and she said that it happens, usually, when there is a larger sibling set that can't be placed together (it is assumed that the children are better off together, in a home, than separated in different foster homes), or when, for whatever reason, the child isn't ready, or able, to be placed in a private home environment.

I am not aware of any Catholic orphanages in the area, for the sake of conversation, but generally a Cradle Catholic is born into such a large extended family, that find a kinship care placement isn't terribly difficult.

[Catwoman]

 

I am not aware of any Catholic orphanages in the area, for the sake of conversation, but generally a Cradle Catholic is born into such a large extended family, that find a kinship care placement isn't terribly difficult.

 

Seriously?

 

That is quite the generalization.  There are plenty of small families who are also Catholic.

[trulycrabby]

I am glad you sent the email, and I am angry for you!

[Guest]

Seriously?

 

That is quite the generalization. There are plenty of small families who are also Catholic.

Good gravy. That isn't what she meant and you know it.

 

I am not aware of any Catholic orphanages in the area, for the sake of conversation, but generally a Cradle Catholic is born into such a large extended family, that find a kinship care placement isn't terribly difficult.

 

For the sake of conversation, assume there is no extended family.  Would they take the child?  What if the parents were LDS?  Or Muslim?  Or atheists?  I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that a non-profit corporation could become the guardian of a child.

[LMV]

Seriously?

 

That is quite the generalization.  There are plenty of small families who are also Catholic.

 

It is a generalization and a bit surprising since I seem to recall the OP posting a thread about how she and her husband had no one amongst their extended family or friends they were comfortable designating as guardians for their children in the event of their death.  Is the part that I am missing that Aimee doesn't consider herself a "cradle Catholic"?

[zoobie]

Must the orphans be Protestant as well? How are they placed?

It's better if they're heathens. You know, for the cash and prizes given upon converting them! Which Aimee wouldn't be able to do as she needs to be rescued from the hellfires as well.

[Catwoman]

Good gravy. That isn't what she meant and you know it.

 

Then what did she mean?  :confused:

 

I know Aimee wasn't being malicious, but I strongly object to the generalization that cradle Catholics come from large families, so orphaned Catholic children would have no need for outside assistance.

 

FWIW, there have always been Catholic-run orphanages, even if there are none where Aimee lives.

[unsinkable]

Then what did she mean? :confused:

 

I know Aimee wasn't being malicious, but I strongly object to the generalization that cradle Catholics come from large families, so orphaned Catholic children would have no need for outside assistance.

 

FWIW, there have always been Catholic-run orphanages..

It's the kind of generalization that is quite painful to those who don't fit the mold.

[LMV]

What I'm scratching my head over is how this process happens (sorry if this is really a S/O).  I don't know anything about how orphanages or the foster system works, but it seems bizarre to me that private organizations can become guardians of children.  If, God forbid, a Catholic family died in a car crash, leaving a young child behind with no other family, might that child end up in this orphanage?

 

A lot of this is state specific because there are state laws, guidelines, and some state specific case law that sets up some additional scaffolding.  In our state, when children are placed in group homes then usually the state retains guardianship and legal custody but contracts with the facility to provide custodial care.  Exactly how that contracting works does vary from state to state and even from county to county in the same state.   In contrast, within certain foster parent arrangements in certain areas there is a big push to facilitate guardianship for foster parents.  In our county there is an expedited path for therapeutic/treatment foster parents to have medical and educational guardianship often at the same time as the judge signs the initial placement order.  

[unsinkable]

I guess I do wonder if I shouldn't have looked more closely at their website. It didn't even occur to me to do so. It's well known organization in the area (really, one of a kind in the area) that we've been (financially) involved in for many years - it didn't occur to look until I did recently, and then I just didn't even consider looking beyond the volunteer page. I do blame myself that I wasn't astute enough to consider that volunteers may be considered employees, and/or that they would have such requirements for a volunteer.

Looking more closely at the website, I am assuming that these children are no longer "wards of the state" - I believe the mission/church/whatever are their guardians - otherwise I can't imagine it would be legal for them to have the faith requirements for foster parents that they have. It's starting to make more sense to me, I've just never really been in a position where faith was THAT big of a deal, unless the employee/volunteer was directly responsible for imparting religious ed in some capacity... and I was not under the impression that mentoring was doing that.

Guess I know now.

It's never a bad idea to closely investigate an organization to which you want to provide support, whether the support is financial or through volunteering.

[Catwoman]

It's the kind of generalization that is quite painful to those who don't fit the mold.

 

Yes, and even if people aren't upset, the notion of the "big huge Catholic family" is outdated.  IIRC, the average size of a Catholic family isn't particularly larger than any other family.

 

I had no idea that people still believed that stuff.

[AimeeM]

Seriously?

 

That is quite the generalization.  There are plenty of small families who are also Catholic.

I'm sorry. That wasn't kind of me to generalize. The Catholic families I know have large extended families. Even small immediate families like my own, have large extended families. I was assuming and I shouldn't have.

[Catwoman]

I'm sorry. That wasn't kind of me to generalize. The Catholic families I know have large extended families. Even small immediate families like my own, have large extended families. I was assuming and I shouldn't have.

 

It's no problem at all, Aimee -- I know you would never have meant it in a bad way.  :)

 

I just wanted to clarify because there truly are a lot of small Catholic families.

[AimeeM]

Seriously?

 

That is quite the generalization.  There are plenty of small families who are also Catholic.

I'm sorry. That wasn't kind of me to generalize. The Catholic families I know have large extended families, but I need to remember that there is a much bigger world out there. Even small immediate families like my own, have large extended families. No excuses - I was assuming and I shouldn't have. I'm not in a great place today.

[SKL]

I would assume they would provide services to a child regardless of his/her faith coming in.

 

Catholics do a lot for the community (regardless of the beneficiaries' faith), but the term "orphanage" in the USA is largely a thing of the past.  Most people agree that most children are better off in foster care than in an orphanage (though there are exceptions).

[AimeeM]

For the sake of conversation, assume there is no extended family.  Would they take the child?  What if the parents were LDS?  Or Muslim?  Or atheists?  I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the idea that a non-profit corporation could become the guardian of a child.

Yes, they would take them - but I imagine they would try their very best to... convert (?)... the child.

 

ETA: please keep in mind that I'm only assuming, or wondering aloud, if this is the case. I just can't imagine they could require foster parents be born again Christians, and the laundry list of other faith based requirements, unless THEY (the org) are the legal guardians. There is no way that could fly if they were wards of the state.

[AimeeM]

It is a generalization and a bit surprising since I seem to recall the OP posting a thread about how she and her husband had no one amongst their extended family or friends they were comfortable designating as guardians for their children in the event of their death.  Is the part that I am missing that Aimee doesn't consider herself a "cradle Catholic"?

My extended family stopped practicing many, many years ago. My husband's family has largely passed away, or still reside in Italy. 

Which is why I did indeed apologize profusely, a bit upthread, for making such a generalization. It's obviously false, as it doesn't even apply to *me*.

[AimeeM]

Yes, and even if people aren't upset, the notion of the "big huge Catholic family" is outdated.  IIRC, the average size of a Catholic family isn't particularly larger than any other family.

 

I had no idea that people still believed that stuff.

*cringe*

I'm sincerely trying to apologize here, but the Catholic... ideas... doctrine... rules... pertaining to birth control (outside of medical need, as has long been the case) and procreation isn't outdated and yes, many of us "still believe that stuff". 

[SKL]

And I do not believe the law prevents (or should prevent) religious organizations from hiring based on religion.  I mean, would you want churches to have to hire people of other faiths (including Muslim, Hindu, etc.) to be pastors, youth ministry leaders, religion teachers etc?  How about hiring a Christian to be a Hindu priest or teacher of the Koran at a mosque? 

 

But I think it's a stretch to assume that part-time volunteers from the community will be held to the same requirements.  I can understand why they'd do it (and I might agree or disagree depending on the type of service), but they need to be explicit and up-front.

[Catwoman]

*cringe*

I'm sincerely trying to apologize here, but the Catholic... ideas... doctrine... rules... pertaining to birth control (outside of medical need, as has long been the case) and procreation isn't outdated and yes, many of us "still believe that stuff".

I only meant that I didn't think people still automatically assumed that if you were Catholic, you had a large family. It's a dated and largely inaccurate stereotype.

 

Sorry if you thought I was talking about your religious practices -- I honestly wasn't thinking along those lines at all.

[AimeeM]

I only meant that I didn't think people still automatically assumed that if you were Catholic, you had a large family. It's a dated and largely inaccurate stereotype.

 

Sorry if you thought I was talking about your religious practices -- I honestly wasn't thinking along those lines at all.

I need more coffee.

[Catwoman]

I need more coffee.

I do, too.

 

If we lived near each other, we could abandon our families and go out for coffee and dessert. :)

[AimeeM]

And I do not believe the law prevents (or should prevent) religious organizations from hiring based on religion.  I mean, would you want churches to have to hire people of other faiths (including Muslim, Hindu, etc.) to be pastors, youth ministry leaders, religion teachers etc?  How about hiring a Christian to be a Hindu priest or teacher of the Koran at a mosque? 

 

But I think it's a stretch to assume that part-time volunteers from the community will be held to the same requirements.  I can understand why they'd do it (and I might agree or disagree depending on the type of service), but they need to be explicit and up-front.

If they had told me, for example, that part of my mentoring would be taking the children to services, praying with them, or something like that... I think I would have probably been like "oh, I need to look into the specifics here - *I* need to ask specific questions about this" a bit more. When it was presented, though, it was a "which fun places will you take them?", "what hobbies do you have that you could share?", "what life experiences have you that could make it easier for them to relate to you?", "is there anything you aren't comfortable discussing with them?"... nothing about being... um... faith buddies, I guess?

[AimeeM]

I do, too.

 

If we lived near each other, we could abandon our families and go out for coffee and dessert. :)

I'm sorry for being touchy today.

I do wish we ALL lived closer so I could abandon the minions for a bit in favor of coffee... and cupcakes... with friends :D

[LMV]

If they had told me, for example, that part of my mentoring would be taking the children to services, praying with them, or something like that... I think I would have probably been like "oh, I need to look into the specifics here - *I* need to ask specific questions about this" a bit more. When it was presented, though, it was a "which fun places will you take them?", "what hobbies do you have that you could share?", "what life experiences have you that could make it easier for them to relate to you?", "is there anything you aren't comfortable discussing with them?"... nothing about being... um... faith buddies, I guess?

 

Do you have a local Big Brothers/ Big Sisters organization?  It sounds like that may be what you are looking for.  

[Catwoman]

I'm sorry for being touchy today.

I do wish we ALL lived closer so I could abandon the minions for a bit in favor of coffee... and cupcakes... with friends :D

No need to apologize. I know you are very upset about the volunteering thing. It's like they dangled a cupcake in front of your nose and then snatched it away. And to think, they are supposed to be the kind and charitable ones... :glare:

[AimeeM]

Do you have a local Big Brothers/ Big Sisters organization?  It sounds like that may be what you are looking for.  

I believe we do. I was looking for something my oldest could be involved with too... something working with children (as that is where her heart is). I'm not sure what BB/BS rules are about that.

I downloaded volunteer GAL paperwork - our area has a serious shortage, so I might look at that, too. I had been asked a couple years ago, but my middle boy was still pretty unstable medically, so I couldn't commit the time necessary. My daughter couldn't be involved there, but I could ask our St. Vincent de Paul Society if they have something for her. She needed to be 13 to work with them (new insurance guidelines), and now that she is, perhaps they have *something* with young children for her (I doubt it, as they are more financial help/food help here, but I could ask).

[AimeeM]

No need to apologize. I know you are very upset about the volunteering thing. It's like they dangled a cupcake in front of your nose and then snatched it away. And to think, they are supposed to be the kind and charitable ones... :glare:

... yeah.. I really love cupcakes, too, so dangling and snatching is no bueno.

 

I just want to cry. It would have been so nice. *I* wouldn't have minded that they are a protestant org! One good thing about being a Catholic - our schools are open to all faiths, and even our volunteer opportunities are generally open to all faiths, and they (especially the schools) INSIST on respecting the personal beliefs of others, so I'm well versed in "not stepping on toes" - I wouldn't have tried to convert the little ones to my heathen Catholic ways. 

[itsheresomewhere]

For your DD- what about seeing if the senior center or assisted living place has anything she can do?

[AimeeM]

For your DD- what about seeing if the senior center or assisted living place has anything she can do?

She really wants to work with children. She did say "second best" would be working at the SVDP food bank, though, and now that she's 13, she can.

[itsheresomewhere]

She really wants to work with children. She did say "second best" would be working at the SVDP food bank, though, and now that she's 13, she can.

Most places here you have to be 18 to work with the kids. That is why I was thinking the senior center. They have kids come in and play games, read books to each other, etc. It might be a compromise if the food bank doesn't work out.

[chiguirre]

You could see if she could volunteer as an aide at VBS. In the local parish, middle schoolers help herd the small kids around and prep materials. They may also accept helpers at CCE.

[Mimm]

Maybe I missed it but did they ever reply to your email? Which I'm glad you sent, btw. :)

[AimeeM]

You could see if she could volunteer as an aide at VBS. In the local parish, middle schoolers help herd the small kids around and prep materials. They may also accept helpers at CCE.

This summer when they do VBS that would be fantastic for her - she's finally aged out of actually ATTENDING vbs :)

The CCE classes are a fabulous idea, but there is a reason right now why we do CCE at home... she's our "reluctant Catholic", and I imagine it wouldn't go over very well to have her volunteer in a CCE class :P Although, come to think of it, despite her reluctance to believe herself, she has been a fabulous helper with her 5 year old's brother at-home CCE, has a noticeable fondness for our faith, and is quite defensive of it, so it might actually be good for her.

She really loves teaching younger children. Despite the mess her last year in public school was, she still very fondly recalls when, she as an Upper School Student, was given a subject to teacher the K'ers - it is one of her favorite memories.

[AimeeM]

Maybe I missed it but did they ever reply to your email? Which I'm glad you sent, btw. :)

No, neither of them did. I sent the first e-mail (the one in the OP) to the initiator, and then I sent another to the Head Dude. Neither responded.

[chiguirre]

 

She really loves teaching younger children. Despite the mess her last year in public school was, she still very fondly recalls when, she as an Upper School Student, was given a subject to teacher the K'ers - it is one of her favorite memories.

 

Another option is an older Girl Scout troop. They earn awards for helping younger girl scouts and there are lots of volunteer opportunities. For example, in my council, there is a weekend camp for the Cadettes to prep and lead a session for Brownies who come for the day on Saturday. It sounds like something your dd would enjoy. I don't know if your local area offers this type of program, but it's something you might check out.

 

[SKL]

Another option for your daughter might be Safety Town volunteer.  When I was a teen, they used volunteers from about age 11/12 up.  Each would take one or two kids and work with them on learning and practicing the rules.

[Katy]

I'm sorry this happened.  I was under the impression that most anti-Catholic bias went away when the Calvinism/Arminianism thing got to be relatively common knowledge amongst evangelicals 30 years ago...  many "born again evangelical" churches took the Aminianism side and realized Catholicism wasn't that bad after all.  I actually remember a sermon about it at an Assembly of God church about 20 years ago.   A/G is distinctly Arminian.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure what you should do, but I'll say a prayer that the perfect opportunity comes to you for you and your DD.

 

As a side note, most protestant pastors would say that of course they are born again, but they don't mean it in the same way that evangelicals do.  Lutherans, for example, teach that all believers are born again.  Those who would identify with evangelical Protestant Christianity most likely mean that at some point after you reach the age of reason you must consciously realize you are a sinner, that you need Jesus to be saved, and then you must respond to an alter call at a church that has such things, and publicly admit you're a sinner and ask for forgiveness.   Most of them don't understand enough about church history to realize that alter calls are a fairly recent addition to church tradition, having started with George Whitefield and Charles Finney during the Great Awakening of the early 1800's here in America. 

 

As much Catholic and Orthodox tradition predates Christ (much of the liturgy comes from Hebrew Temple ceremonies, for example), you've been taught a very different version of Christian worship.  Many "evangelical, born-again Christians" reject the idea that even protestant liturgical denominations, or those with infant baptism, are even Christian.   I've been at a Southern Baptist church where the pastor said that no one but Southern Baptists were saved.  Some of these denominations do not believe in extensive theological training (I think the SB pastor I mentioned had graduated high school but never gone to college, SB's do have theological seminaries but individual churches choose their pastors rather than denominational oversight or educational requirements), and they tend to look at "book learning" as "getting in the way of your relationship with God."   Again, not all or even most evangelicals are this extreme, but there are many.

 

I have frightening stories about that particular SB church, but that probably would be so off-topic I should start another thread if anyone is interested.