Common Core example assessment problem

[MarkT]

http://www.edweek.org/ew/section/multimedia/example-common-core-smarter-balanced-problem.html?cmp=ENL-EU-MOSTPOP

[Justified]

Yes, my DS10 already started seeing problems like that last year for state testing. The state had to get a waiver from the federal govt not to count the new testing against them. The teachers had no way of preparing the kids for the new testing as they didn't know what was going to be on the test. My DS10 went from above average to average results at the beginning of the year to below average results in the test. She was very confused because it cared more about explaining why and how she got her answer than the right answer.

 

This year they are getting lots of practice explaining their answers. Plus, she does have to make sure that she has a conceptually and thorough understanding of what's going on verses just memorizing the algorithms to find the answer. I just don't know if that is too much to ask for or not. I am not an expert.

 

I will say that some of the methods they are using to increase their conceptual understanding are not translating in to my DS being able to verbalize and write a coherent statement explaining her answer on paper. The weakness in writing is now showing up in her math. I don't have a real problem with common core as much as I have a problem with their new methods for teaching math to prepare them for the new tests. I don't like a ten step solution for a division problem that can be done in five.

 

I hear that the SAT will be moving to this style of questioning and for my other children I homeschool, I worry that my current math textbooks will not prepare them adequately. It's something that is on my mind a lot.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm not a common core fan, but I think this is a great math question.  The "Explain why or why not" is not going to be difficult.  For any word problem, we should require an answer that is more than a number- ie, it should have a unit next to it (cm, mph, kg, dollars, etc.) or some word- people, dogs, whatever- to show that the student understands the answer in the context of the question.  This is just taking it a small step further to ask a student to get an answer, then go back and judge it by the criteria in the original problem.  I doubt they are graded on spelling and punctuation, they just need a coherent statement that states why or why not the new design is better. 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Oh I will add- I do NOT like the computer format.  It is very hard to "type" math and would be much better done on plain paper!  I don't care how clever kids are with computers, it's a lot easier to carry the one with a pencil...

[Farrar]

Wow. I really like this problem. I like the way it's posed and the type of information it wants. And I like that there's some small amount of scaffolding in that the diagram is already drawn for the first box.

 

The biggest issue I had was that if that's the way it looks on the screen, the input is really confusing. I presume that this would be the first time kids would be doing a problem like this on a screen, which I think is problematic. And that's not a small issue. I've seen a bunch of articles by teachers bemoaning that their kids knew how to do the math or writing or whatever but they saw them struggle for a long chunk of time with the input, which in some schools seems to be going down sometimes and so forth. I think that's a big concern.

 

Of course, it also begs the question is this problem right for all students... And that I'm less sure about. A lot of kids need more practice in fluency for things like finding volume before they can start to apply it.

[hepatica]

I think it's a great problem too. My 6th grade dd would probably enjoy answering it. It would likely take her about 2-3 hours to try out all her ideas. It's just hard to assess creativity on these kinds of tests.

 

And, she would totally fumble around with the input. She would need lots of practice with the screen format. 

[wapiti]

If CC intends to test problem solving, that may be difficult to test in a typical standardized, timed-test format, so I'd be interested to hear how they handle timing.  And, even though I'm certainly in favor of problem solving generally, I'd guess that experience and skill for, not to mention talent for, problem solving will vary much more widely than basic math knowledge.  (eta, I wonder whether there are different categories within the test, e.g. a different category for finding basic volume than for problem solving with volume.  My hope would be that the CC and/or the Smarter Balanced test are clear - with teachers and with themselves - on what exactly they are testing with a particular question.  I think it's problematic if they can't be clear about that.)

[MerryAtHope]

If the students are shown how to explain in class, it shouldn't be too difficult. It could be something simple like saying, "7.5 X 10.5 X 4 won't work because the surface area is greater than the surface area of 12 X 8 X 2." Show their work and prove it.

 

If they know that slightly increasing the small number and decreasing the larger numbers will increase the volume but decrease the surface area, they can solve it without having to experiment with a lot of numbers. 

[Joker]

Wow. I really like this problem. I like the way it's posed and the type of information it wants. And I like that there's some small amount of scaffolding in that the diagram is already drawn for the first box.

 

The biggest issue I had was that if that's the way it looks on the screen, the input is really confusing. I presume that this would be the first time kids would be doing a problem like this on a screen, which I think is problematic. And that's not a small issue. I've seen a bunch of articles by teachers bemoaning that their kids knew how to do the math or writing or whatever but they saw them struggle for a long chunk of time with the input, which in some schools seems to be going down sometimes and so forth. I think that's a big concern.

 

Of course, it also begs the question is this problem right for all students... And that I'm less sure about. A lot of kids need more practice in fluency for things like finding volume before they can start to apply it.

 

This is becoming an issue this year at my dd's middle school. She's in Honors 7th grade math and is bored and frustrated because so many students are now struggling. She has to sit through class after class of very thorough explanations of things she was able to understand quickly. We've had to have a meeting with the teacher and all she is able to say at this point is that they are aware there are students not struggling and know they have to come up with some way to accomodate them.

 

This is one of the first problems I've personally had with common core (the other is language arts testing). Until now I've really liked what I've seen. I still like the math but think the reality is that some of these students may now need to either be moved down to standard (parents would probably not be happy) or come up with another class for those that are not having issues with the new setup.

 That was interesting to me bc it never occurred to me that they would test market tests.  

 

Reputable companies always try out out new test questions and materials before generally rolling them out.  The SAT had a "unscored" section that every student takes that doesn't count for their score, where new questions are trialed.

I also like most of the problem, except for section #2:  label the length, width and height of the box on the unfolded form.  Seems like like what they are asking for is to assume that the longest line in the diagram is the 12in one, the medium-length line the 8in and the shortest the 2in.   Otherwise, depending on how you orient the box, any dimension could be the height, width, or length.

 

However, in geometry, one of the tricky things to teach is that you can't rely on what "looks right" from a diagram.  If a geometry problem doesn't label two lines as perpendicular, you can't assume that they are just because the look like right angles.

[Roadrunner]

Of course, it also begs the question is this problem right for all students... And that I'm less sure about. A lot of kids need more practice in fluency for things like finding volume before they can start to apply it.

As my as I like the question, I know many kids would find this very frustrating. While we should teach to a high standard, I wonder if test developers think about that these tests aren't meant for high performance students only. Is the goal of the test to identify the top performing kids or ensure basic numerical literacy? This is the problem when schools teach to the test. If you make tests easier, the instruction varies accirdingly.

[Farrar]

As my as I like the question, I know many kids would find this very frustrating. While we should teach to a high standard, I wonder if test developers think about that these tests aren't meant for high performance students only. Is the goal of the test to identify the top performing kids or ensure basic numerical literacy? This is the problem when schools teach to the test. If you make tests easier, the instruction varies accirdingly.

 

Yes, the lack of fluency with basic numeracy and arithmetic concerns me when I see some of the CC work and examples. It seems to me that they want kids to run before they can walk sometimes. Surely you should at least get partial credit for the walking, you know? But it's like all they're testing is the ability to apply it the math... 

[8filltheheart]

Yes, the lack of fluency with basic numeracy and arithmetic concerns me when I see some of the CC work and examples. It seems to me that they want kids to run before they can walk sometimes. Surely you should at least get partial credit for the walking, you know? But it's like all they're testing is the ability to apply it the math...

and keyboarding skills and writing abilities. (My ds would have done poorly on a test like this b/c he would have been really slowed down by his language skills while his math skills would have been far beyond the level of the test.)

[kiwik]

I like the question BUT

 

I would prefer it was on paper, and

Only if the explanation can be something like "it won't work because it uses more cardboard" or "it doesn't meet the requirements". Basically a simple blunt statement in a few words. I think I would rather- does it meet the requirements yes/no, why not - too big/too small/uses more cardboard with drop down or circle (on paper).

[Arcadia]

That was interesting to me bc it never occurred to me that they would test market tests.

California was doing a pilot run in April/May for the state. My older boy's teacher had to collect feedback from the students about the test regarding user interface. Also whether they were comfortable with the questions, not the content of the questions itself.

 

I asked my older who did the 4th grade test and he say the sample question in link look similar.

[pitterpatter]

You know what I also don't like about computer tests? You can't typically use traditional test-tasking strategies with them. I had to take them for a couple of online classes when I was considering going to nursing school. You can't run down the page to answer the "easy" questions first, you can't go back to "tricky" problems or check your answers, if you have extra time at the end. You can't eyeball the test to see whether you are on pace. It's crap! I hated them so, especially the kind you had to answer one question at a time and there was no going back. I did fine, but it was very difficult for me to adapt. I was distracted by the fact I could not check my answers or go back to a problem.

 

Oh I will add- I do NOT like the computer format.  It is very hard to "type" math and would be much better done on plain paper!  I don't care how clever kids are with computers, it's a lot easier to carry the one with a pencil...

 

[Kathie in VA]

I'd like to know who is going to grade ALL the tests since it asks for an explanation. This part sound great for a class test but on a standardized test?

[CaffeineDiary]

A common thing I keep experiencing is that people show up in various places and say "Just LOOK at this Common Core math problem!" and I look at it, and I think to myself "Wow.  That is a completely awesome math problem."

 

In reviewing a lot of Common Core stuff, I have seen some problematic things - mostly in the textbooks, which in some cases are pretty awful (and, let's be frank, most of the textbooks were also pretty awful before Common Core also).  But all of the tests I've seen have actually been really exciting and, in my opinion, good stuff.

 

My $0.02.