Need Advice about Cal-Tech

[Cabertmom]

Our second oldest is an upcoming senior.  His preferred school is Cal-Tech, and he's looking at majoring in math, computer science, or maybe both, but here's the situation:

 

1.  He did great on his PSAT and is in the running for National Merit Scholar.

2.  His SAT scores were 800 verbal, 700 math, and 650 writing.

3.  His GPA is 3.75, but I don't know how much anyone cares since he's a homeschooler.

4.  He has taken and is taking community college classes and doing well there, so there's some "proof" that he is capable in classes that are not taught by mom.

 

So all in all, his scores are great, but his math score is a little low for Cal-Tech.  He's actually really, really good at math, and I would have expected those SAT scores to be reversed if anything.

 

So here's the deal:  The due date for early admissions at Cal-Tech is November 1st.  There's only one more SAT date between now and then, and they require an SAT subject test in one of the sciences.  That means that if he is going to meet the early admissions date, he cannot retake the SAT since one can't do both the SAT and the subject tests on the same day.

 

Here are my questions:

1.  Should he retake the SAT hoping for a better math and writing score and thus miss the early admissions deadline?

2.  Should he instead take the SAT subject science test (probably physics) as well as an SAT math subject test, which might prove his math skills better than the SAT?

3.  Do early admissions tend to be a little easier to get in with or not?

4.  One other thing we discovered this spring that Cal-Tech wants is a "rigorous" physics class.  He actually took Conceptual Physics this last year because we couldn't manage anything better (unfortunately the community college only offers physics an hour away).  We're looking at having him do ThinkWell's Calculus-Based physics this year to make up for that, but it will be in progress when he applies.  Is that worth doing?  He is actually more excited about taking biology and then cellular biology at the community college.  Again, the fact that the CC physics class is an hour away pretty much nixes that as a possibility.  Would taking a second more rigourous physics class make a difference in his application there?

 

My husband and I are both liberal arts folk, and we're not sure how to go about advising him for this.  His goal right now is to become a math or maybe computer science professor.  He loves learning and is interested in everything, he's a great talker, and I think he would be really happy spending his life in academia.

 

Thanks a bunch in advance for your help!

[EKS]

About four years ago, my son and I actually spoke at length and in person with the head of admissions at Caltech who is also in charge of reviewing applications from homeschoolers.  He was very clear that the student should take the most rigorous science and math courses available to them and that they would prefer some outside verification that the courses were rigorous.  So, his suggestions were to take the higher level science and math courses at a local college or to take the AP exam.  By higher level, he seemed to mean calculus and beyond and introductory science sequences intended for majors. 

 

 

[JanetC]

Cal-Tech does not have a reputation for being flexible. You need to meet their stated requirements.

 

If the science subject test is required, you simply must take it to apply. Taking math level 2 on the same day to try to overcome the low SAT math score is a good possible plan. Similarly, if they require rigorous physics, you have to check that box, even if that means not having time for cell bio.

 

It is OK to have a required class or two listed as in progress on the transcript, but it is better to have the grades where you can. For something as core to Cal-Tech as physics, applying regular decision and having at least a first semester grade may be a good idea: ask admissions.

 

In general, early applications demonstrate stronger interest, and the readers are less jaded and easier to impress earlier in the reading season. However, an early app will not compensate for low numbers or failure to meet requirements.

[Kathy in Richmond]

Generally you should apply early only if you think that there's no room for improvement in your application.

 

I've observed Caltech admissions for several years, and I haven't seen anything that would indicate that early applicants have a better admissions chance. I've had two kids accepted there, one EA and one RD. They do receive more apps from the seriously interested & high ability students in the early round, so that may skew things to look like it's easier to get in EA. (Plenty of EA kids are deferred to the regular round, too.)

 

Last time I spoke with admissions was five years ago when dd was getting her application ready. They told me that they are looking for personality match & *especially* test scores from homeschoolers in addition to course rigor.

 

With your son, I'd advise waiting till the regular round and building his application in the meantime. Take another SAT (Caltech's 25 percentiles for enrolled freshmen are 770 math & 720 writing) and also the required SAT 2 math2 & science tests.

 

If you look at the Common Data Set, they indicate that the #1 thing they're looking for is course rigor. The required math & science core courses at Caltech are *extremely* tough, & they want indication that their students are ready. I wouldn't send a kid in with only a conceptual physics background. If he is serious about applying, then I'd recommend that he take a solid physics course this year. An outside provider who can issue a semester grade and/or recommendation would likely help him the most. One option would be PA Homeschoolers. They're teaching Physics C classes (just mech or mech + elec/mag) that would be appropriate preparation for Caltech.

 

Does he have any extracurricular math (contests, math team, math circle, summer camps, etc) that could document his math abilities or provide great letters of recommendation for him? Caltech's app has a blank for AMC math scores; not required, but it gives an idea what they're used to seeing from applicants. I agree that SAT math scores are not a terrific indicator of upper level ability sometimes. These really smart kids can make stupid mistakes on the easy-peasy problems, but at the same time are able to think deeply on really high levels. You just need to document his abilities for admissions purposes.

[MBM]

Our second oldest is an upcoming senior.  His preferred school is Cal-Tech, and he's looking at majoring in math, computer science, or maybe both, but here's the situation:

 

1.  He did great on his PSAT and is in the running for National Merit Scholar.

2.  His SAT scores were 800 verbal, 700 math, and 650 writing.

3.  His GPA is 3.75, but I don't know how much anyone cares since he's a homeschooler.

4.  He has taken and is taking community college classes and doing well there, so there's some "proof" that he is capable in classes that are not taught by mom.

 

So all in all, his scores are great, but his math score is a little low for Cal-Tech.  He's actually really, really good at math, and I would have expected those SAT scores to be reversed if anything.

 

So here's the deal:  The due date for early admissions at Cal-Tech is November 1st.  There's only one more SAT date between now and then, and they require an SAT subject test in one of the sciences.  That means that if he is going to meet the early admissions date, he cannot retake the SAT since one can't do both the SAT and the subject tests on the same day.

 

Here are my questions:

1.  Should he retake the SAT hoping for a better math and writing score and thus miss the early admissions deadline?

2.  Should he instead take the SAT subject science test (probably physics) as well as an SAT math subject test, which might prove his math skills better than the SAT?

3.  Do early admissions tend to be a little easier to get in with or not?

4.  One other thing we discovered this spring that Cal-Tech wants is a "rigorous" physics class.  He actually took Conceptual Physics this last year because we couldn't manage anything better (unfortunately the community college only offers physics an hour away).  We're looking at having him do ThinkWell's Calculus-Based physics this year to make up for that, but it will be in progress when he applies.  Is that worth doing?  He is actually more excited about taking biology and then cellular biology at the community college.  Again, the fact that the CC physics class is an hour away pretty much nixes that as a possibility.  Would taking a second more rigourous physics class make a difference in his application there?

 

My husband and I are both liberal arts folk, and we're not sure how to go about advising him for this.  His goal right now is to become a math or maybe computer science professor.  He loves learning and is interested in everything, he's a great talker, and I think he would be really happy spending his life in academia.

 

Thanks a bunch in advance for your help!

 

They also accept the ACT with writing. Maybe he could sit for that?

 

Or, he could take the SAT again. Cal Tech superstores the SAT, I believe, but you'd want to verify that.

 

They also require two SAT subject tests: Math Level 2 (not Math Level 1) and one of the science tests.

 

They want a student to have finished or be finishing math through at least calculus.  It is probably a good idea to take a calculus-based physics course which can be taken while a student is learning calculus. A keen interest in other science courses would be helpful, too.

 

As far as early admissions being easier, generally that is true but not always.

 

HTH.

[MBM]

Generally you should apply early only if you think that there's no room for improvement in your application.

 

I've observed Caltech admissions for several years, and I haven't seen anything that would indicate that early applicants have a better admissions chance. I've had two kids accepted there, one EA and one RD. They do receive more apps from the seriously interested & high ability students in the early round, so that may skew things to look like it's easier to get in EA. (Plenty of EA kids are deferred to the regular round, too.)

 

I agree. I just looked at the historical acceptance rates on Naviance for my son's high school, and CalTech is one of the places where candidates in the EA round have higher GPAs than the regular. (This is for accepted applicants.) CalTech is the only school that we have looked at (of about 25) where I've seen this. It probably happens elsewhere, though. Anyway, that seems to suggest that it would be better to beef up the scores a bit (and I bet your son can pull close to 800s with some practice) and work through some of the courses CalTech would like to see, like calculus-based physics.

 

Congrats to him for getting an 800 on SAT verbal, btw!

[Cabertmom]

Wow!  Thanks, everyone for all the great suggestions.  That gives us a lot to think about.

 

This is where he has to make some tough decisions--to sacrifice time and other interests for the chance that he might be able to get into Caltech or to look a step down where he is fairly sure of admission (and hopefully scholarships).

 

If anyone else has suggestions, that would be great.  FYI in answer to some questions above, he has taken first-year calculus, but we live in a rather rural area, and he has not participated in any math contests at all.

[maize]

The idea of taking the ACT is a good one, the math section is quite different from the SAT math and he may perform better, and it gives him an extra test date to work with.

[Cabertmom]

Kathy in Richmond and anyone else, do you know how the PA Homeschoolers physics course compares with the one that Thinkwell offers?  Thinkwell was the one we found that was calculus based.  He has taken Differential Calculus and is in the middle of Integral Calculus now.

 

Thanks to all of you, I think we have a plan--he'll apply to the other colleges as early admissions and wait on Caltech to give him enough time to take both the SAT again and the SAT subject tests.

 

I really appreciate the help.  There's nothing like this wonderful board! 

[Kathy in Richmond]

Kathy in Richmond and anyone else, do you know how the PA Homeschoolers physics course compares with the one that Thinkwell offers?  Thinkwell was the one we found that was calculus based.  He has taken Differential Calculus and is in the middle of Integral Calculus now.

 

Thanks to all of you, I think we have a plan--he'll apply to the other colleges as early admissions and wait on Caltech to give him enough time to take both the SAT again and the SAT subject tests.

 

I really appreciate the help.  There's nothing like this wonderful board! 

 

I can't help you with comparing those two specific physics classes, sorry! We studied physics at home using Resnick & Halliday texts (with AP testing at the end), but my kids were pleased with PA Homeschoolers in general for other AP classes. This is their first year teaching Physics C, which is calculus-based, and they're offering two different options. Since your son is wrapping up integral calculus, either of the PA Homeschooler classes or Thinkwell calc-based physics should be at the appropriate level of challenge for him (don't put him in algebra based physics at this point). How does Thinkwell work (I've never seen their products)? Is there any kind of documentation of his learning? I think it would increase his chances for Caltech to have an outsourced mid-year grade or else a SAT 2 physics score before applying. SAT 2s are given quite often, but the physics test covers a broad range of material, and you'd have to check the topics against the Thinkwell table of contents.

 

Good luck to your son! Like MBM said above, congrats on that 800 verbal score!

[8filltheheart]

Based on everyone's replies, I would take the subject tests on the earliest SAT date and take the ACT on its earliest date. Then based on the AC T scores, you can decide whether or not yo test the next SAT date.

 

What is his DE GPA?

[MBM]

My husband gave his very old Resnick & Halliday physics text to our son to study this summer, but I think our high school uses Physics for Scientists and Engineers by Serway & Beichner and a lab workbook. I'm still waiting for the booklist to come out but that is what I found for last year. Just throwing that out because sometimes it's helpful to have another text on hand that might explain ideas in a different manner.

 

On a different tangent, I just started reading a book called Choke by Sian Beilock about the pressure of performance when the stakes are high and what a person can do to succeed. Interestingly, the highest performing people are the most likely to choke. For example, academically a person with excellent working memory -- the ability to recall something while performing a task -- does the worst under pressure, such as when having to solve problems quickly. I say this because your son is pretty advanced in math for a high schooler but he might flub up under pressure even though he actually understands the material very well. (My son does this in certain situations -- timed math tests especially like the AMCs and AIME). Beilock offers ways to deal with these situations but I haven't reached the solutions part yet. It's an interesting book and because your son has a lot riding on the line with these upcoming tests, there might be something in it that could help him blow them away (in a good way).

 

:)

[Teachin'Mine]

I see 8Fill beat me to it!   I would definitely take the physics and math II level 2 subject tests and the ACT.  I know that many of the highly selective colleges stick to their requirements about the subject tests, but some offer some leeway.  Dd was admitted to some which require 2 SAT subject tests, but they likely considered her college courses.   The standardized tests are supposed to test for mastery and/or aptitude/college readiness, and IMO succeeding in college courses in high school does that too.

[snowbeltmom]

Kathy in Richmond and anyone else, do you know how the PA Homeschoolers physics course compares with the one that Thinkwell offers?  Thinkwell was the one we found that was calculus based.  He has taken Differential Calculus and is in the middle of Integral Calculus now.

 

Thanks to all of you, I think we have a plan--he'll apply to the other colleges as early admissions and wait on Caltech to give him enough time to take both the SAT again and the SAT subject tests.

 

I really appreciate the help.  There's nothing like this wonderful board! 

The PA Homeschoolers Physics class did not receive good reviews with the parents of another list I am on, especially for those students aiming for a 5 on the AP exam.

 

Fwiw, my son studied calculus based physics using MIT OCW and the textbook, University Physics by Young & Freedman.  I was able to get both the textbook and the solutions manual very cheap on Amazon.  This approach worked very well at my house and my son was very prepared for the AP.

 

Good luck!

[angela in ohio]

Listen to Kathy, listen to Kathy, listen to Kathy. :D

 

I can tell you what we did about the choice between dream schools and reality. Dd applied to a range of schools, including many schools she was not a match for in terms of scores. One of those schools miraculously took her (well one priority wait-listed her, too,) and we consider those pretty good odds. :) They also meet full financial need, as do many of the very competitive schools. It was worth the money and time to us for her to apply to multiple schools.

 

Someone else said it, and I will second it, based on lengthy conversation with admissions folks I have met through robotics and science fair: test scores are considered more heavily for homeschoolers, especially for those with no other outside verification.

[Nan in Mass]

I know nothing about CalTech, but youngest applied to tech schools and had to make some of the sorts of decisions you are facing. I worried and worried over them. The whole optimizing-the-chances bit was pretty stressful. CalTech probably isn't going to be the only school that wants a math and a science SAT2. Schools around here commonly want three - math 2, a science (usually chem or physics), and a third free choice. You can't substitute AP classes. (I guess they want to compare apples to apples and not all schools offer APs.) If he doesn't do that, he will be limiting himself. Those limits may be just fine (youngest opted not to take them, since his top choice schools didn't require them, even from homeschoolers), or they may not be. And then there is the whole question of whether he'd be more attractive if he had them, whether or not they were a requirement. Difficult. As far as I could tell from discussions with the admissions people at youngest's top choice, one's physics grade is a major factor in admissions. Youngest had to decide whether to apply early action to his first-by-far choice to demonstrate how very much he wanted to go there, or apply later with his first semester community college calc-based physics grade was available. The website seemed to indicate that they didn't bump people; they just rejected or accepted them, so we worried over this. Eventually, in the course of calling admissions about other things, we realized that this particular admissions department was very straight forward about what they wanted (unlike some others) and he just asked. They said it didn't matter, that they would just bump him. (By then, they had quite a lot of information about him.) This is what happened. They would have taken a progress report type letter from his physics prof, but she refused to give him one. As a result, they delayed answering until they received his grade, at which point they sent his acceptance letter. So it wasn't so much as a bump to the next admissions period but a delay of an answer for early admissions. My general strategy for science and math was to work with him at home in a more interest-led manner for 9th and 10th grade and then send him to the community college for classroom experience, covering any missed basics, and verification of his abilities. This worked as far as admissions went, but it left him with a few gaps as far as his knowledge went, making for a rather bumpy first semester of university while he filled in his gaps.

 

We ran into the problem of SAT dates, too. That is part of why youngest had no SAT2s. His first SAT math scores weren't great. When we asked admissions at his first choice school about SAT2s, they said bluntly not to take them for their sake. Instead, he retook the SATs. This time, he didn't have a horrible cold and he did significantly better. I really pushed him to retake them. Left to his own devices, he would have stuck with just the one try. I was relieved that it turned out to be well worth a Sat. morning. His reading and writing shot up, too. This has been the experience of most people I know - they improved every time they took the test, whether they had done much math in between or not. My son said his second score would have been even higher if he'd bothered to review his geometry beforehand. He was a bit fuzzy on equivalent angles. He said there was one other type of math problem that he knew how to do perfectly well but couldn't remember. He said that he normally derives anything he needs to use (rather than having it memorized) but there wasn't time to do this on the SAT, so his score was not as high as it would have been if it had been untimed. That, of course, is true for everyone, but I appreciated the explanation.

 

I did Conceptual Physics with my children. I love it. It makes a great foundation. I'm quite sure your son will need a more rigorous physics class in order to survive his first year classes, though. Don't forget that the goal here is to survive and FINISH university, not just to get in. I recommend that you start brainwashing your son right now, saying things like, "Because you are a homeschooler, you will have some gaps. You are going to have to get help to fill them. No need to panic and freeze when you find them, just go to the tutoring center." Lol, if you start now sounding like a broken record, you might be able to bang into his head that he is PAYING for those tutors and he might as well use them. If your son is anything like mine, it will take him awhile to talk him into going for help sooner rather than later. Mine adores his school followed up that first bumpy semester with a good second semester. He wasn't the only student who did this. I just wanted you to know that this happened despite community college classes in bio, chem, physics, and calc. Chem and bio were intro classes (rather than the general classes for science majors) and, interestingly, resulted in fewer gaps than the calc-based physics and calc classes meant for engineering transfer majors. We did a ton of natural history at home before he took a semester of intro bio (during which he learned almost nothing new), and the chemistry prof was really really good, so that might be the reason.

 

So summing up youngest's strategy - a transcript with outside classes in science and math including math through calc 2 and calc-based physics, lots of interesting independent science projects, a math SAT score that was in the 50% range for his school, reading and writing SAT scores that were significantly higher (go WTM - this was not something that I would have predicted or even tried to make happen - we went very lightly through language arts), some atypical things for an engineering student (like foreign travel and several different foreign language classes), gymnastics, and robotics club senior year (because I felt strongly that he needed some group engineering experiences to round out all his independent projects). Robotics club took up almost all of every Sunday because of the long commute, but it was well worth it, both for the experience and the recommendations it produced. It was a small club, one that gave him plenty of chance to contribute. Some tech college applications provide a whole page for explaining about one's robotics club experiences, so I would guess that this didn't hurt his application. : )

 

I've written all this out because I remember how desperate I was for stories of how other people had made the various admissions decisions. I am NOT trying to recommend that you do one thing or another (except to encourage you to do another physics class). Good luck!

 

Nan

[Cabertmom]

Wow!  Thank you all for your experiences and insights, especially Nan.  They are very helpful.  For what it's worth, I must have said something to imply that he wasn't going to take the SAT subject tests, but he definitely is going to take math 2 and either chemistry or physics.  It sounds like you're saying it would be a good idea to  take a third one as well.  The main question was whether to retake the SAT.  Based on everything you all have said here, it sounds like he sould take both and then apply during regular admissions.  He will be in the midst of his 3rd community college class by then--one chemistry, one game design, and the one next fall will be an A+ server certification course.  He made an A in the chemistry class, so that's good.

 

One more question regarding the SAT subject tests if I may:  How many can one take in one day?  I've been trying to find that out on the college board website and have not been able to do so.

[Teachin'Mine]

Wow!  Thank you all for your experiences and insights, especially Nan.  They are very helpful.  For what it's worth, I must have said something to imply that he wasn't going to take the SAT subject tests, but he definitely is going to take math 2 and either chemistry or physics.  It sounds like you're saying it would be a good idea to  take a third one as well.  The main question was whether to retake the SAT.  Based on everything you all have said here, it sounds like he sould take both and then apply during regular admissions.  He will be in the midst of his 3rd community college class by then--one chemistry, one game design, and the one next fall will be an A+ server certification course.  He made an A in the chemistry class, so that's good.

 

One more question regarding the SAT subject tests if I may:  How many can one take in one day?  I've been trying to find that out on the college board website and have not been able to do so.

 

Three can be taken at once and each one is an hour long. 

 

My reply above was a quick one after reading your post, and while I would still recommend trying the ACT, I agree with Kathy that he would likely fare better waiting for regular admission.   Dd didn't apply to CalTech so I have no info as to their flexibility, but I would make sure to provide them with all the required testing.  I wouldn't ask them to waive the SAT II requirement unless he had extensive college courses in math/computer science and physical sciences.

[Lanny]

One of my late Uncles, he had a Ph.D. in Electrical Engineering, was a Professor of Electrical Engineering at Cal Tech. That was many years ago.   As a native Californian, my impression is that if your DS attends Cal Tech that he will receive an extremely rigorous education there. Possibly a notch down from M.I.T., possibly about that level. You can check into that. Probably lots of interaction with NASA JPL in Pasadena.

 

If your son excels in Math and Physics, Cal Tech might be a good place for him. If he is on the weak side in those areas, he is not going to do well there.

 

Going into a Math heavy field, for someone who does not excel in Math and Physics is a ticket for failure. The College of Engineering at Texas Tech has on one of their Admissions  pages information about that. Those who can't make it are helped into another College at Tech, if they can't make it in Engineering.

 

I wish your son much good luck on his choice of a career and a university. 

 

One thing that I would share with him, is that when I was in High School, my Uncle told me that he wished that he had gone into Physics, instead of Engineering. I believe Physics prepares one more broadly. Broadly isn't the correct word, but the conversation was *many* years ago. 

 

ETA: I believe that your son must apply to other schools in addition to Cal Tech. From what you wrote, his true interests may not be in Math or Physics and Cal Tech might be a bad fit for him.  Life is a short and fatal experience and life is much easier if one can work in a field they are truly interested in.  

[stupidusername]

he needs to get his SAT math score up. 

 

[underthebridge]

I won't give you specific advice on what tests to take when, but the general rule is that you should not apply early admission unless you feel that your application is at its very best. I interview for MIT and have participated in many workshops with admissions directors. Previous posters are correct in that the early application review is definitely not more lenient than the regular process. Only the choicest applicants will be accepted. Early applicants are either accepted, deferred to regular admissions, or rejected. A fair number of deferred applicants will be accepted. Applying early with an application that could be improved runs the risk of rejection without a chance in the regular process.

 

Unfortunately, a 700 on the math portion is quite low for cal tech and would indicate deficiencies in basic precalculus math to the admissions committee unless he can indicate otherwise with other scores. You can give the admissions committee a call and ask what is the best way to demonstrate that the 700 is a fluke. The summer is slow, so they should have time to answer. Good luck!

[MBM]

Have your son practice the math portion of the ACT and SAT weekly or even twice a week until he's very comfortable taking it and getting a higher score. Do a search for sites that explain the tricks of boosting the writing section. Practice and knowing what they're looking for in the written essay should boost his scores in those areas.

 

I looked up the admissions information for accepted students on Naviance so you'll have an idea what sort of scores they like to see. The following are average scores.

 

0780 -- SAT Math

0745 -- SAT Critical Reading

0745 -- SAT Writing

2277 -- SAT Combined

 

35 -- ACT Math

34 -- ACT English

34 -- Combined

 

 

[shawthorne44]

I know nothing about your son, so please don't be offended.  But, are you sure your son is CalTech material?  You don't want to be like the friend of mine that went to MIT to study Physics and found himself the bottom the barrel and ended up with a Political Science degree.  Even within the Mensa group he is smarter than average, and I don't doubt that he applied himself.  If it were my child, I would have him go through the free online MIT class, and also get the book that CalTech uses.  

[Cabertmom]

Shawnthorne44, no I'm not sure to be perfectly honest.  He's a very bright kid, loves to learn everything, is very good at math and planning on majoring either in math or in computer science.  As far as we are concerned, Caltech is a long shot and nothing like a sure bet, and that's okay.  There are other colleges on his list that he is very likely to get into with good scholarships.  That's part of the reason I posted this question to begin with.

 

Several posters have thought somehow that I was wanting for him not to have to take the SAT subject tests, which isn't the case at all.  The question originally was whether or not he would do well to do early admissions, which would mean missing a second shot at the SAT.  Those who are knowledgeable have made it clear that he's better off waiting until regular admissions so he can both take the SAT subject tests and the SAT a second time.  I tend to think he's better off retaking the SAT rather than switching to the ACT personally, which some people mentioned.

 

MBM and UndertheBridge, I appreciate the insights.  Now he has to be the one to decide if the extra effort is worth the possibility of being accepted to Caltech.

 

Thanks, everyone.

[Frances]

Shawnthorne44, no I'm not sure to be perfectly honest.  He's a very bright kid, loves to learn everything, is very good at math and planning on majoring either in math or in computer science.  As far as we are concerned, Caltech is a long shot and nothing like a sure bet, and that's okay.  There are other colleges on his list that he is very likely to get into with good scholarships.  That's part of the reason I posted this question to begin with.

 

 

 

Even if he doesn't attend Caltech for undergrad, there's always grad school. I have two friends who received PhDs from Caltech after attending small liberal arts colleges for undergrad. Both are now tenured professors - one in chemistry and one in math.

So all in all, his scores are great, but his math score is a little low for Cal-Tech.  He's actually really, really good at math, and I would have expected those SAT scores to be reversed if anything.

 

You know your child better than anyone.  If you think that his math SAT score was significantly lower than expected, maybe you are right.  I've seen some kids who are incredibly advanced in math underperform on the math SAT, if they are so far ahead that it's been years since they've seen Algebra, and they didn't feel they needed to prep for the exam.

 

How much math exam prep did he do?  Even a modest amount of prep could help him tremendously, if it means the difference between having a technique in hand to use right away, vs. trying to remember or derive a procedure.

[shawthorne44]

You know your child better than anyone.  If you think that his math SAT score was significantly lower than expected, maybe you are right.  I've seen some kids who are incredibly advanced in math underperform on the math SAT, if they are so far ahead that it's been years since they've seen Algebra, and they didn't feel they needed to prep for the exam.

 

How much math exam prep did he do?  Even a modest amount of prep could help him tremendously, if it means the difference between having a technique in hand to use right away, vs. trying to remember or derive a procedure.

 

I know my GRE Math score was significantly lower than my SAT math.  I had a Math minor and enough credit for a second major if I'd taken slightly different classes.  But the math level on the GRE was soooooo low.  It was lower than the SAT because they assumed you forgot more math than you learned.  

[MBM]

I think your son should definitely try for Cal Tech. He has everything going for him except the SAT math (and the ridiculous writing). A little practice will go a long way for him.

 

[daijobu]

Can he take the AMC12 before his application is due?  If he's a math whiz and does well there, that should alleviate any concerns about his math ability.  

[snowbeltmom]

If anyone else has suggestions, that would be great.  FYI in answer to some questions above, he has taken first-year calculus, but we live in a rather rural area, and he has not participated in any math contests at all.

 

We live in a rural area as well, and the closest math circle is almost three hours away, unfortunately.  My local librarian proctors the AMCs for my kids.  I order the tests with the AMC folks, and the tests are mailed directly to the library.

 

The AMCs are given in February.  While you would not have a score when the application would be due, you would be able to update your son's file with his AMC score before the decisions are released.

 

[MBM]

I think it would be a lot easier to improve the SAT score than to sit for the AMC-12 for the first time. Also, many applicants will probably have scored well on the AMC-12 and possibly the AIME and USAMO. The admissions people will clarify any questions you might have.

 

Something somewhat new to keep in mind: nowadays some (not all) universities want prospective applicants to also *demonstrate interest* which means attending and signing in for campus visits (if possible), asking questions, and signing up to receive e-mails and newsletters. Some universities even have accounts for prospective applicants. My son's guidance counselor suggests following the links in e-mails and always signing in for visits whenever possible. My son's #1 choice is Northwestern and it is one of the schools that wants to see demonstrated interest.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think it would be a lot easier to improve the SAT score than to sit for the AMC-12 for the first time. Also, many applicants will probably have scored well on the AMC-12 and possibly the AIME and USAMO. The admissions people will clarify any questions you might have.

 

Something somewhat new to keep in mind: nowadays some (not all) universities want prospective applicants to also *demonstrate interest* which means attending and signing in for campus visits (if possible), asking questions, and signing up to receive e-mails and newsletters. Some universities even have accounts for prospective applicants. My son's guidance counselor suggests following the links in e-mails and always signing in for visits whenever possible. My son's #1 choice is Northwestern and it is one of the schools that wants to see demonstrated interest.

Good grief.

I understand colleges are concerned about yield. He don't want to give offers of admission to students who turn them down. But the implication that the clicks on spammy emails that offer secrets of the universe in return for taking a quiz on student interests will be tracked and used to assess the suitability of an application leaves me cold.

 

In what free time does my kid read and follow up all those emails?

 

I'm thinking I could make a retirement job of having a dozen email addresses and clicking around college sites for kids.

 

 

I'm not disputing that colleges do this. I just think it's getting a bit silly.

[MBM]

Good grief.

I understand colleges are concerned about yield. He don't want to give offers of admission to students who turn them down. But the implication that the clicks on spammy emails that offer secrets of the universe in return for taking a quiz on student interests will be tracked and used to assess the suitability of an application leaves me cold.

 

In what free time does my kid read and follow up all those emails?

 

I'm thinking I could make a retirement job of having a dozen email addresses and clicking around college sites for kids.

 

 

I'm not disputing that colleges do this. I just think it's getting a bit silly.

 

Don't you want to know the secrets of the universe, though? LOL.

 

I agree. It's getting ridiculous.

[mllehmann]

My son applied to Cal Tech and was rejected.  He had perrfect ACT scores, near perfect SAT and SAT Math II and Chemistry Scores, perfect PSAT scores (National Merit Finalist), AP Calc and AP Physics (4 and 5, can't remember which was which) as a sophomore in high school, took Engineering Physics at community college earning top grades and being recognized by the department as outstanding student for the year), also took remainder of Calc classes, differential equations classes, tutored in the math center, and took a number of programming classes at the community college earning 4.0 in all but one programming class.  I thought he would be an ideal candidate, but alas no.

 

All of that to say that even the most qualified students don't necessarily get in and there is another component as well.  I'm guessing that my son's essays just didn't bring it all together because he is a very well rounded student even though he has excelled at math and science.

 

Good luck helping your son prepare for the admissions process.

 

Michelle

[Nan in Mass]

Sometimes top tech schools are looking for students who have demonstrated the type of geekiness that shows that some day they are likely to do something very interesting, or  something else that has nothing to do with stellar academics.  The sad part is that they want this ON TOP OF stellar academics, when for many people, the two are mutually exclusive.  (Although, there are, of course, people for whom they are not.)

 

Nan

[daijobu]

My son applied to Cal Tech and was rejected.  He had perrfect ACT scores, near perfect SAT and SAT Math II and Chemistry Scores, perfect PSAT scores (National Merit Finalist), AP Calc and AP Physics (4 and 5, can't remember which was which) as a sophomore in high school, took Engineering Physics at community college earning top grades and being recognized by the department as outstanding student for the year), also took remainder of Calc classes, differential equations classes, tutored in the math center, and took a number of programming classes at the community college earning 4.0 in all but one programming class.  I thought he would be an ideal candidate, but alas no.

 

 

 

 

 

Can I just say this is a total drag.  You son would be an asset to any college.  

[Nan in Mass]

Another sad part is how important the word "demonstrated" is as opposed to "did".  Millehmann - Maybe Cal Tech thought their freshman program didn't offer what your son needed. 

[MBM]

My 30-year-old son's friends from Illinois Math and Science are all doing interesting things whether they went to state schools, Ivies or top tech schools. A student who gets into a solid program, is willing to study and take advantage of opportunities will thrive.

 

 

Another sad part is how important the word "demonstrated" is as opposed to "did".  Millehmann - Maybe Cal Tech thought their freshman program didn't offer what your son needed. 

 

You might not be referring to what I wrote earlier, but just to clarify "demonstrated" in my post means to demonstrate an interest in finding out what prospective colleges have to offer. These schools would like to get students who genuinely want to attend and who understand what the school offers. Except for the visits (we've only done three), my son just signed up to receive e-mails and info on Facebook and then will click on anything that looks interesting. He did this only after he narrowed down his list of prospective schools.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/09/26/college-admissions-secret-strategy.html

 

 

[Nan in Mass]

MBM - No, I was thinking about a student I know who did many interesting things but was too... shy?... to put them on his college apps. Or couldn't figure out how to highlight them. Or something. Some college applications reflect the student well and others don't. I can't think of a good solution to this problem, other than making sure the student does an interview and hoping that the interviewer is good at drawing out the student and the student is better at representing himself in person than on a form. The whole college application process is very strange. I understand why it is the way it is, but that doesn't make it any less strange.

 

Nan