Testing gone bad, really bad

[Bear23]

Last year all my kids did awesome on their testing and got really high overall scores then this year happened.  We used the CAT that had all the subjects.  Child 1 over all percentage was 44% and the other child's was 39%. My oldest was 90%.  It was a rough year when returning to the states and all that related craziness but shouldn't be an excuse for poor test results. I did the testing like I always did except my child with the lowest score fought about every test and said she had them all wrong.  My second poorly done child was confident and didn't complete one test and was surprised at his results.  So would this means they have failed their grades if in a public school?  Test results are due to the state on the 1st of August and my husband is embarrassed to be sending in these test scores.  We are doing 'summer school' with the two kids which don't make them happy.  His concern is that they will see these scores and it will frown upon the homeschooling community.  My kids did learn while we did have a difficult year.  English didn't get finished but they finished everything else and even started the next level of math mid year.

 

 I used Bigger and Preparing Hearts for his Glory from Heart of Dakota (same programs I used with the oldest for this grade), Teaching  Textbooks and Rod and Staff English.  

 

This testing just has made me feel like a complete failure.  Yes I know all about the to test or not to test but I have to test because it's what my husband wants them to do.  I been doing this for eight years now.

 

[Chris in VA]

It could be that the scope and sequence of your materials did not fit the CAT test scope and sequence, so there's that.

 

Honestly, though, I would not use a test result as a sole indicator of progress or success. It can help you discern strengths and weaknesses (though I've never found the CAT to give enough feedback to really be helpful--I prefer Stanford or ITBS), but you probably know those anyway, just from being your dc's teacher and mom!

 

I wouldn't worry in the slightest about being a "bad reflection" on the homeschooling community.

 

The PTB don't care.

 

They really don't.

 

I don't know where you are, but if you are in VA, you only need to have your kids do in the 25th percentile or greater--your percentages are not failure. It's not like making 25% (or whatever) out of 100.

[Tidbits of Learning]

Personally, I wouldn't summer school subjects.  I would summer school test taking skills.  I would buy a spectrum test booklet for their grade and work through it and re-test.  You have plenty of time before August to get results in if you test-prep for about 2 weeks and then re-take in July leaving 2-3 weeks for results.  That would be if you are really concerned on the grade.  Here it is 25% as well that they need to "pass" to the next grade.

This is what schools do for students who don't pass the state test.  They do test prep all summer so they will pass.  

[Ellie]

Last year all my kids did awesome on their testing and got really high overall scores then this year happened.  We used the CAT that had all the subjects.  Child 1 over all percentage was 44% and the other child's was 39%. My oldest was 90%.  It was a rough year when returning to the states and all that related craziness but shouldn't be an excuse for poor test results. I did the testing like I always did except my child with the lowest score fought about every test and said she had them all wrong.  My second poorly done child was confident and didn't complete one test and was surprised at his results.  So would this means they have failed their grades if in a public school?  Test results are due to the state on the 1st of August and my husband is embarrassed to be sending in these test scores.  We are doing 'summer school' with the two kids which don't make them happy.  His concern is that they will see these scores and it will frown upon the homeschooling community.  My kids did learn while we did have a difficult year.  English didn't get finished but they finished everything else and even started the next level of math mid year.

 

 I used Bigger and Preparing Hearts for his Glory from Heart of Dakota (same programs I used with the oldest for this grade), Teaching  Textbooks and Rod and Staff English.  

 

This testing just has made me feel like a complete failure.  Yes I know all about the to test or not to test but I have to test because it's what my husband wants them to do.  I been doing this for eight years now.

 

ITA with Chris.

 

Your dc's scores aren't nearly as bad as you think they are, nor as bad as Mr. Navywife2chief thinks. You're beating yourself up way too much.

 

In general, children are not passed or failed because of standardized test scores--or, at least, they should not be. Those test scores should only be one part of an overall evaluation of what happened during the year.

 

I assure you that TPTB see test scores all over the map. As long as the scores are above any state requirement (and they probably are) I wouldn't worry about it for a nanosecond. And yes, returning to the states and all that related craziness would most definitely be an "excuse" for "poor" test results, which are not that poor. Really.

 

[maize]

39th and 44th percentiles are not horrendous, they are actually pretty close to average. 39th percentile means that for every 100 children taking the test, 39 would score lower than your child. It is definitely not an indication of failing.

[OneStepAtATime]

As others have said, those scores are not "bad".  This is not a grade like 30 means failing.  You have not failed.  And as a pp mentioned your scope and sequence may be different than the test.  Please don't beat yourself up over this.  Maize is right, your kids are close to average.  You have had a lot going on.  There is nothing wrong with close to average.

[G5052]

How were they in language arts and math?  That's really all that counts in my book.  Some of the science and social studies questions are always "out there" IMHO, and there's also the assumption in those subjects that they understand the school environment.  If you didn't study exactly the subjects are on those parts, you're going to be off.

 

If they tested that way in a school, the whole picture would be evaluated and perhaps they'd be monitored more closely or put into remediation the following year.  A single test isn't ever used in public school for 100% of their grade, it is just a snapshot.

 

And FWIW, I know the lady in my county who processes them.  She looks at the test scores spends all of 10 seconds on each one, making sure that language arts and math are above 25%.  That's all she does.  She has a form that she checks boxes on.  She has a ton of other responsibilities and hundreds and hundreds of these to go through, so she really doesn't care about more than completeness.  The Notice of Intent paperwork also gets maybe a minute if it is organized.  I'm guessing that it is probably the same in most counties.

[Reefgazer]

Others can correct me on this if I am wrong, but 50% is "average", so your kids scores are not far off "average".  The tests aren't graded like school, where under 60% is failing.  But maybe your DH doesn't like average, in which case you have time to re-test with another quick test (CAT) and submit those scores instead if it will make your DH feel better.  But I am pretty positive the local school division doesn't give a rat's patootie about those scores, as long as they are passing, which around here is somewhere near 25% (I'm in Virginia, like Chris).  I've learned from dealing with the school division how unimportant we are to them (actually, I kind of had a clue on this when my kids were in public school, LOL).  For us, summer school for anything is a no-go, for any reason; we (I) need the re-charge time if I expect to perform well next year.

 

ETA:  Do you have to test in all subjects, or just LA/math to satisfy your school division?  If you don't have to test Science/Social studies, I wouldn't, because lots of home educators don't follow the schedule of events dictated by a test.  If that is the case with you, just re-test LA/math.

[Rebel Yell]

OP- do you HAVE TO turn inthe test reults to your school district?  It sounds like you are only testng because your DH wants it, not because it is a local requirement? If I'm correct, just don't report the scores!  NOT because they are 'low' or anything else, but because I am not a fan of giving more information than is necessary/legally required.

 

And like many have explained above- those scores are NOT failing!  Very close to average.  And often, when many children have similar scores 1 single wrong answer on a particular test can drop the results by 10 percentile points.  "Percentile" is NOT the same as "PERCENT CORRECT."  On one CAT test, DD missed 2 questions out of (I think) 25... if it was a regularly graded test, that would have been 92% correct or an "A". But the PERCENTILE score was something in the low 80s, simply meaning that she scored better than 80-some kids out of 100 taking the same test at the same time.

 

And I never do standardized tests for my girls in Science or LA- we are never on the scame schedule/scope/sequence as the test, so it is meaningless.

[boscopup]

Those are not failing scores at all. Most states that require testing would have to see lower scores than those to even mention that you need to change something.

 

They would not have failed public school due to testing. Public schools don't base pass/fail on the standardized tests. The tests are used to see how the teachers/schools are doing, not the students individually. In school, a child would need to be receiving failing grades throughout the year in order to be held back, and some schools won't even give a failing grade. :tongue_smilie:

 

Sometimes kids have off days, and their test scores reflect that.

 

Were you using the same math and LA programs you've used in previous years for those children? If you had just changed, perhaps something didn't mesh well. Or it could be the craziness of your year. Or it could be the alignment of the stars on test day. Really. You just never know how kids are going to do.

 

Did you look at the kids' answers before sending them in, so you could see what types of questions they missed? Do you think they were just silly not-thinking mistakes, or do you think the kids really didn't know the material?

 

Are you using R&S English at a slower pace like HOD recommends? That could skew your scores in LA if they just haven't gotten to the material yet. Likewise, if you're using TT at grade level, it could be something just didn't get introduced yet. It will be, but you may have a scope and sequence miss-match. Not the end of the world. Just know what you're using and where it's going. It's ok to have a different trajectory, but test scores may be lower because of that sometimes.

 

And as others have mentioned... Remember that AVERAGE is 50%. Your oldest did way above average. Your youngers did slightly below average, but not failing. It's ok. You might see better scores next year without doing anything over the summer.

[kiana]

While I would agree about not overstressing, I *would* try to figure out what was different between this year and the last that caused their scores to drop, and look for a pattern of wrong answers etc.

 

If they'd been near the 50th percentile all along I wouldn't be at all concerned, but dropping from "awesome" to average is something I would investigate.

[Heather in VA]

While I would agree about not overstressing, I *would* try to figure out what was different between this year and the last that caused their scores to drop, and look for a pattern of wrong answers etc.

 

If they'd been near the 50th percentile all along I wouldn't be at all concerned, but dropping from "awesome" to average is something I would investigate.

 

This is what I was going to say but Kiana beat me too it. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I don't even look at the percentile.  I look at the Grade Level Equivalent.  If that is about at grade level, or above, then I'm cool.  All is well.  Do not freak out over percentile.  

[MiMi 4under3]

My state requires homeschoolers to achieve at least in the 33rd percentile, or they are placed on probation for 1 year. 

 

So I think your kids did fine.  :)

[Tidbits of Learning]

 

They would not have failed public school due to testing. Public schools don't base pass/fail on the standardized tests. 

 

In certain grades, standardized testing is pass/fail in public school.  It is a different grade in every state, but there are grades that you could have all A's on your report card and "fail" the standardized testing and you will be held back in public school unless you retake the test.  Here it is 4th and 8th.  My son missed by 2 points last year and had to do summer school and then retake and pass the test before being promoted to 5th.

[boscopup]

In certain grades, standardized testing is pass/fail in public school. It is a different grade in every state, but there are grades that you could have all A's on your report card and "fail" the standardized testing and you will be held back in public school unless you retake the test. Here it is 4th and 8th. My son missed by 2 points last year and had to do summer school and then retake and pass the test before being promoted to 5th.

I don't think they do that at all here in Alabama, so I've never heard of that.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I don't think they do that at all here in Alabama, so I've never heard of that.

 

All states do it.  It is part of no child left behind.  Each state does it differently, but they can hold back a student based on standardized testing.

 

The ARMT (Alabama Reading and Math Test) is used for accountability for third though eight grade to meet the requirements of the No Child Left Behind. The ARMT assesses Alabama student achievement in reading and math content standards. The ARMT has a 100% alignment to the Alabama state content standards in reading and mathematics. Performance is reported in the following achievement levels:

• Level I—Does not meet academic content standards
• Level II—Partially meets academic content standards
• Level III—Meets academic content standards (proficient or grade-level performance)
• Level IV—Exceeds academic content standards

The ARMT is a criterion-referenced test. It consists of selected items from the Stanford Achievement Test (Stanford 10) that match the Alabama state content standards in reading and mathematics. Additional test items were developed to be included so that all content standards were fully covered. It is this combination of Stanford 10 items and newly developed items that is known as the ARMT.

 

Format of the Alabama State Board of Education Standardized Tests 

For students starting grade 3, assessments are used to determine academic proficiency in Reading and Mathematics. 

Alabama schools use the Stanford 10 and related Otis-Lennon School Ability Test to assess students in grades 3-8. The 

Reading assessment covers vocabulary and comprehension, the Language portion covers grammar and mechanics, and the 

Mathematics assessment covers mathematical procedures and problem solving. 

Students in grades 5 and 7 are given the Science assessment which covers the nature of science and life, physical, earth and 

space science. In grade 6 students are also assessed in Social Studies in topics such as history, geography, 

civics/government and economics. 

Each spring, the Alabama Reading and Mathematics Tests (ARMT) are given across the state to students in grades 4, 6 and 

8. These tests are criterion-based tests aligned to the learning objectives (the criteria) developed by the Common Core 

Standards in English Language Arts and Mathematics. 

In high school, students must take and pass the Alabama High School Graduation Exam (AHSGE). This is first given to 

students in grade 10 as a checkpoint into students’ abilities and weaknesses. If a student passes the examination at this 

point, they will receive credit for having passed. These assessments are given in a five day testing period at various points 

throughout the school year. The subjects covered are Mathematics, Science, Social Studies and Reading. In each 

assessment students receive a result of either pass/mastery or fail/non-mastery. 

For those who do not pass, determinations are made about the need for instructional support and the student will have the 

opportunity to retake the test in grade 11. Beyond that, further retake opportunities are made available to students. 

For all assessments, students with disabilities who require accommodations or alternatives will receive their necessary 

accommodations. 

 

 

 

Each state has a different grade that students must pass reading or math. They don't have to be proficient in both.  Georgia's is 3rd and 5th.  Louisiana's is 4th and 8th.  But each state has it b/c all fall under no child left behind.  It looks like Alabama's are 4th, 6th, and 8th from reading about it.

 

[Hunter]

Did you use a different test than you did last year? There are SO many reasons there could have been a drop in scores. No matter what was not done this year, a severe drop would not not be solely because of that.

 

My younger son pulled off some amazingly low and high scores. I have no trust in tests anymore. NONE! I only use tests if I notice something I want to try and prove to someone else and then do my research and try and find the test that is most likey to be the tool to do that. I don't look at tests to tell ME anything.

[KarenNC]

Nm

[KarenNC]

Perhaps all states do for public school students, but not for homeschoolers. In NC, we are required to test each year, but sending in the scores is entirely voluntary. You only have to keep them on hand for a year in case the state should ask for proof that testing was done, *not* that the student reached any particular percentile or even a certain amount of change from the previous year. It's very, very rare for anyone to be specifically asked, and such asking would be random absent some other compelling reason to think a family was not complying with our minimal requirements.

 

In NC the state does not determine my child's grade level, I do, so there would not be a question of the state "holding back" a child in a homeschool.

[ErinE]

Did you look at the kids' answers before sending them in, so you could see what types of questions they missed? Do you think they were just silly not-thinking mistakes, or do you think the kids really didn't know the material?

I recommend doing this if you don't already. For me, it helps me see where there are learning gaps versus testing errors. For some strange reason, my kids completely forgot capitalization rules this year. After testing, we reviewed the rules and they were able to follow them so I don't know what happened. For math, there were a few mistakes, but the kids knew the correct answer so it was a good time to talk about working carefully and checking work.

[boscopup]

Each spring, the Alabama Reading and Mathematics Tests (ARMT) are given across the state to students in grades 4, 6 and 

8. These tests are criterion-based tests aligned to the learning objectives (the criteria) developed by the Common Core 

Standards in English Language Arts and Mathematics. 

In high school, students must take and pass the Alabama High School Graduation Exam (AHSGE). This is first given to 

students in grade 10 as a checkpoint into students’ abilities and weaknesses.

 

 

Thanks. That's new! They used to only use the SAT10. They still don't use the SAT10 to pass/fail though. I imagine the ARMT may be a little more dumbed down. The graduation exam was a complete joke when I took it, but they've supposedly improved it since then (going from 5th grade level to 8th grade level... though saying that test was 5th grade level was really pushing it, IMO... my entire homeroom was LAUGHING during the test). Knowing how many of the schools in Alabama are performing, I am sure that students scoring what the OP's kids did would not be failed. Otherwise, they'd have to fail whole classes of students in some schools, and they just aren't going to do that.

 

Some sample questions from the graduation exam when I took it (again, labeled "5th grade level"):

 

Which of these is a triangle? (below were pictures of a circle, a square, and a triangle)

Which of these is a color? (options are grass, grape, and yellow)

 

The test really didn't get harder than that. I don't have a lot of hope for the ARMT really showing if kids can read or do math. :tongue_smilie:

[MerryAtHope]

Last year all my kids did awesome on their testing and got really high overall scores then this year happened.  We used the CAT that had all the subjects.  Child 1 over all percentage was 44% and the other child's was 39%. My oldest was 90%.  It was a rough year when returning to the states and all that related craziness but shouldn't be an excuse for poor test results. I did the testing like I always did except my child with the lowest score fought about every test and said she had them all wrong.  My second poorly done child was confident and didn't complete one test and was surprised at his results.  So would this means they have failed their grades if in a public school?  Test results are due to the state on the 1st of August and my husband is embarrassed to be sending in these test scores.  We are doing 'summer school' with the two kids which don't make them happy.  His concern is that they will see these scores and it will frown upon the homeschooling community.  My kids did learn while we did have a difficult year.  English didn't get finished but they finished everything else and even started the next level of math mid year.

 

 I used Bigger and Preparing Hearts for his Glory from Heart of Dakota (same programs I used with the oldest for this grade), Teaching  Textbooks and Rod and Staff English.  

 

This testing just has made me feel like a complete failure.  Yes I know all about the to test or not to test but I have to test because it's what my husband wants them to do.  I been doing this for eight years now.

 

I think there's nothing like a lower-than-expected testing experience to shake a mom's confidence. I do think that having a rough year and a move (much less an international one) can definitely affect scores. So can a bad day, a different test, not feeling good, getting off in the bubbles (common especially with younger kids), curriculum that follows a different scope & sequence or just a kid's perspective (like when your child was so upset about the test.)

 

While I would agree about not overstressing, I *would* try to figure out what was different between this year and the last that caused their scores to drop, and look for a pattern of wrong answers etc.

 

If they'd been near the 50th percentile all along I wouldn't be at all concerned, but dropping from "awesome" to average is something I would investigate.

 

Yes. As others said--I always looked over the tests before sending them in so I could get an idea of where they struggled. Sometimes I saw my  kids get questions wrong that I KNEW they could answer, and sometimes I saw something we hadn't covered yet, or simple calculation errors, something that might need more review the next year etc... One year I saw that my daughter skipped a row of bubbles by mistake and that threw off all her answers below that point. 

 

One test really doesn't give you a view of much--tests over time give you a better picture. 

 

I think the most upsetting thing about standardized tests is that someone HAS to be in the 1st percentile, and someone has to be in the 99th (well, actually not--the way some tests work, if the top 4% of kids all score the same, they'd all be in the 96th percentile!). It really doesn't tell you whether a child has done well or poorly in a subject--it only compares your child to other kids who may have studied completely different things than you did this year. It doesn't tell you "passing" or "failing" information (unless there's a grade-level equivalent given--that is slightly more helpful, but even those are often misleading. The equivalent that most tests give do not mean "your child is doing X-grade work," but instead means, "your child got the same percentage right that an X-grader, taking this same test, would get.")

 

Take a step back, evaluate if there are some areas to work on, but make sure to have plenty of fun this summer too. 

[Courtney_Ostaff]

I would wonder about the test design.  Did they change the format, or the style of test (from norm-referenced to criterion-referenced, for example)? 

 

FWIW, the state of WV, and most other states, used the CTBS test for *years*. It is a norm-referenced test (39%ile means that your child did better than 39% of test takers).  It got replaced by criterion referenced tests when NCLB came around.  RTT has created PARCC and Smarter Balance. 

criterion-referenced tests involve a cutscore, where the test taker passes if their score exceeds the cut-score and fails if it does not (the ACT, for example)

norm-referenced test (NRT) identifies whether the test taker performed better or worse than other historical, test takers (E.g., IQ tests)

ipsative assessment is the practice of assessing present performance against the prior performance of the person being assessed (what most teachers do)

​Mostly from Wikipedia

 

Slightly off topic, but here's a good explanation of cut scores: http://www.washingto...s-are-selected/

 

Hope that helps!

[Bear23]

Thanks for the replies.  We are doing the test preps and retesting.  I have used the English/Math testing before but we did the all subjects last year and everyone did great so DH said to do it again.   We are in Virginia and everything is due August 1 and we wont have the new test back in time.  We are out of town until July and won't retest until August.  This test will be sent it with my intent.  My kids are smart, it's just so upsetting hearing how other kids do great or I read about the 10 year old genius and I am just blahhy. 

We are on break and enjoying our days and feel better about it all.