How would you remediate this child (math woes)? What would you use?

[Sue G in PA]

My 13yo is behind. I hate that word but it is true. If you have been around these parts for longer than a few years, you have heard me go on and on about this child's challenges and my frustrations. He has emotional issues (was diagnosed years ago with Mood Disorder - NOS…so basically…"we know something is wrong but can't quite put our finger on what" sort of diagnosis". He is bright. But he is lazy and pencil/book phobic. We fight EVERY BLESSED DAY to get just the basics done. So, he is in SM 5A at the moment, going in to the 8th grade.  :banghead:  I have pinpointed where he most struggles with math and we are working toward solidifying those concepts. He does not have a good solid grasp of his multiplication facts.  We're drilling daily. That effects his ability to divide easily. Working on that next. These 2 weak areas effect his ability to comprehend fractions, simplifying, finding common denominators, etc. That will be next. That, in turn, effects his ability to understand decimals, lol. Now, b/c he LOVES $$, we have been able to go further with decimals than with fractions. ;) So here is my question/s: How would you go about remediating this child? We will be working through the summer. I have thought about using Math Mammoth worksheets for trouble areas and have also thought about using the Key to series (Measurement, fractions, decimals, percents, etc.). We are switching to CLE b/c I think he needs more of a review than SM gives him. Anyway, could anyone offer any more advice or options besides those I listed? Thanks!  And please no judgement (not that I would find that here)…I really am doing the best I can with this child. :/ 

[KAM]

I switched my pencil & paper phobic/daily math fighting son to Teaching Textbooks. Best homeschool decision I have ever made. I will not say he leaps out of bed eager to get at it! But there are no fights anymore and we have caught him up to grade level. We had tried at least three other programs before I decided to go ahead and buy TT. This is our first year with it, so I can't say if it will work long-haul or make any comments as to it's rigor compared with other programs, but it has made my life so much easier. For some reason he understands concepts much better when someone other than me explains them and he is finally "getting" it.

[MamaSprout]

I tutor with Math Mammoth Blue books. No grade levels :o). I do like CLE's development books, but if you need repetition, Key To books would work better. If you'all are butting heads a tutor or TT might be a better path for your sanity.

 

Good Luck!

[Sue G in PA]

I'm not so certain repetition is what he needs. He seems to catch on to some concepts quickly but lacks the motivation to stick with any topic that is too "hard" or that he doesn't get right away. A friend has TT6 so I might try that and go from there, supplementing with either Key To or MM Blue. Thanks!

 

[MamaSprout]

Also, I don't know anything about this series, but it's Singapore for students who "need extra support". RR has it, but the description is better here:

 

http://www.singaporemath.com/Math_Works_Coursebook_5A_p/mwc5a.htm

 

HTH

[MomatHWTK]

What seems like not sticking with something or being lazy really are symptoms of the condition.  PDD- NOS is often ascribed when autism spectrum can't be clearly determined.  You may also be seeing some ADD ADHD issues, etc. 

 

Determine right now to assume the best of him and work from that point of view.  I know it is hard not to see the behavior as a negative character trait, but is either on both parent and child if you can. 

 

For my guy, I switched to Tablet Class Math.  I had tried MUS and Switched on Schoolhouse before.  I liked Plato Math and DS was OK with it but the price for Tablet Class was better.  If TC didn't work for him, I'd probably give Teaching Textbooks a go.  I'm using TT 4th grade for my youngers this year.  Consider ways to separate yourself from the direct teaching (but watch the videos so you can work the problems!); limit the number of problems he has to work; and consider scribing for him when he does work the problems. 

 

For multilplication facts, try a fun drill game in very short bursts or concentrate on one or two facts at a time and drill those throughout the day until he has them.  Prompt an answer or a hint when he hesitates to build his confidence.   I moved my DS ahead into some pre-Algebra work that doesn't involve fractions and division just to allow him to enjoy some of his work.  We will now go back and work on basic division and fractions again after having taken a break. 

 

The mood disorder stuff is hard and the teen years are the worst to get through.  :grouphug:

[Pen]

Besides ideas like TT or a tutor to get him and you separated as far as math goes, for everyone's relationship preservation, what about any or some combo of the prior and / or the following:

 

Chalk Dust math which gives video and a live person to ask help from--maybe their 6th grade class which covers all subjects needed before pre-algebra?

 

Khan Academy

 

a Consumer Math program which would deal with math in a context of managing finances and so on, which might appeal to his $$$ interest.

 

MUS for remedial multiplication and division.

 

Saxon because it is very incremental and has lots of review, and also has the DIVE or Teacher videos for support to get you out of the teacher role to the extent you have been.

[lewelma]

My oldest could not master his math facts until he did them 3x / day, 7x/week.  Once a day just did not cut it.  We tried that for 3 years before increasing the frequency, which ended up being the answer.

 

Your ds won't be able to do fractions well until he knows his facts.  And he certainly won't be able to do algebra until he can do fractions.  So he has to get those facts!

 

Ruth in NZ

[AK_Mom4]

I would do as you are doing - drill the facts, multiple times a day, seven days a week.

 

But then I would hand him a cheat sheet with the multiplication table printed on it and let him use it in his daily math. When remediating older students (especially resistant ones), I have found it useful to move away from math programs written for the elementary ages. Basic College Mathematics (Lial) might be a good choice - Chalkdust.com has a video set to go with it and many of the videos with Dana Mosely are available on YouTube. Explanations are straight forward and not cutesy.

 

This is a 13yo - he KNOWS he is behind in math and is highly resistant - not a happy situation! If the goal is to try to get him caught up to a consumer math or algebra one/geomey level before the end of high school, I would look at the Lial books. Take them more slowly if needed (many students take two years for BCM and are ready for algebra when done) while you continue the daily drill. Two years in BCM, then two years thru College Algebra and a final year of Consuemr Math is probably a reasonable goal.

[Five More Minutes]

My oldest could not master his math facts until he did them 3x / day, 7x/week.  Once a day just did not cut it.  We tried that for 3 years before increasing the frequency, which ended up being the answer.

 

Your ds won't be able to do fractions well until he knows his facts.  And he certainly won't be able to do algebra until he can do fractions.  So he has to get those facts!

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I don't want to derail this thread, but I am curious: what specifically did you do to review math facts so frequently? Flash cards? Apps? Worksheets? All of the above? I hadn't thought of increasing the frequency of fact review to encourage mastery before -- what a good idea!

[Sue G in PA]

Hmm…I have BCM…purchased for my older son before ditching it and moving to Abeka Pre-Algebra. ;) It might do the trick. I will have to re-visit that again. Thanks.

[Pat in MI]

I would say TT also, but I bet he would do fine in TT 7 if that is possible for you to get.  I am picturing my son who also disliked math and was writing phobic.  So any program that had a lot of problems on a page or was visually busy (like Lials BCM) would never work for him.   I finally started him in MUS and that is what worked okay for him, but Teaching Textbooks was only starting back then.  I think he would have done well with TT.  I do highly recommend you sit with your son when he does the lessons. Not only do you know whats going on in the lesson, but you can give him hints if he needs it and you can insure that he listens to the step-by-step solution if he gets a problem wrong.  Continue to work on facts daily with whatever works for him, but until he knows them really well, you might  supply a chart or give the answer when he is completing his lessons just so he isn't completely frustrated.   I really like math windows or sheets from MUS for fact practice, but you probably have your own resources.  Keep up the good work Momma! 

Blessings,

Pat 

[Critterfixer]

One thing I've had going for multiplication facts over the years are all these long posters I made that go around the top of the room. We drilled them daily, and for the most part, both boys are pretty solid. But one child (not my hFA child who had the thing memorized within four months, I swear he's got an elephants memory!) would be hesitant to trust his answer. So I've left them up for the past few years. It's not the same as a chart, in that you have to look up and around to find the answer, but it has been useful.

My walls are now covered with different things I've done the same thing with-parts of speech, common decimal/fractions, declensions, hard to spell contractions...I'm going to have to use the ceiling soon. But it keeps me remembering that I have to make sure they learn these things, gives me a handy way to drill, and it also really helped my child learn to trust his answers, because he could get an automatic check without asking me. Wouldn't work for every kid, I guess, but he was willing to use the charts only as a check system, and not as a crutch.

Flashcards are fun, but sometimes it turned into a competition that could get nasty. Boys. :glare:

[Critterfixer]

Double post. Stupid trigger finger.

[Wildiris]

I have a son who was a reluctant math student. I got this book for him: Mastering Essential Math Skills. These books do a small amount of reteaching.

 

After re-reading your original post, the Key to... series would be the choice I would make. I would then add math drill to support the learned concepts.

 

I have a younger daughter that is not a math lover like her older brother. I use Math Worksheets, a free math drills worksheet site with answer key, as a daily drill of basic facts. These worksheets help a lot; however they are not teaching worksheets. Just drill.

 

 

[MomatHWTK]

Just my opinion, but when you are dealing with other neuro problems, memorization may not be possible.  It is possible to learn work arounds and use the dreaded calculator or other resources in order to move forward at some point.  I wouldn't stagnate a child from learning higher math indefinately due to a single limitation.  Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.  KWIM? 

 

[Heidi]

I have a son who was a reluctant math student. I got this book for him: Mastering Essential Math Skills. These books do a small amount of reteaching.

 

After re-reading your original post, the Key to... series would be the choice I would make. I would then add math drill to support the learned concepts.

 

I have a younger daughter that is not a math lover like her older brother. I use Math Worksheets, a free math drills worksheet site with answer key, as a daily drill of basic facts. These worksheets help a lot; however they are not teaching worksheets. Just drill.

 

Math Worksheets!  Just what I was looking for.  Thanks so much!!

[Reefgazer]

I don't have SN kids, so take this for what it's worth:

My DD did not know her math facts after 3/4 grade; specifically, she didn't know multiplication.  Flashcards didn't stick, maybe because I wasn't using them effectively, I dunno... Anyway, when I pulled her out to homeschool in 6th, we bought the old, reliable Saxon math.  That did the trick.  What component of Saxon really helped her situation was the timed facts practice.  So you might just try buying that one book with facts practice and use them each day and ask him to beat his time/accuracy record.  Bribe if necessary.  :)

My 13yo is behind. I hate that word but it is true. If you have been around these parts for longer than a few years, you have heard me go on and on about this child's challenges and my frustrations. He has emotional issues (was diagnosed years ago with Mood Disorder - NOS…so basically…"we know something is wrong but can't quite put our finger on what" sort of diagnosis". He is bright. But he is lazy and pencil/book phobic. We fight EVERY BLESSED DAY to get just the basics done. So, he is in SM 5A at the moment, going in to the 8th grade.  :banghead:  I have pinpointed where he most struggles with math and we are working toward solidifying those concepts. He does not have a good solid grasp of his multiplication facts.  We're drilling daily. That effects his ability to divide easily. Working on that next. These 2 weak areas effect his ability to comprehend fractions, simplifying, finding common denominators, etc. That will be next. That, in turn, effects his ability to understand decimals, lol. Now, b/c he LOVES $$, we have been able to go further with decimals than with fractions. ;) So here is my question/s: How would you go about remediating this child? We will be working through the summer. I have thought about using Math Mammoth worksheets for trouble areas and have also thought about using the Key to series (Measurement, fractions, decimals, percents, etc.). We are switching to CLE b/c I think he needs more of a review than SM gives him. Anyway, could anyone offer any more advice or options besides those I listed? Thanks!  And please no judgement (not that I would find that here)…I really am doing the best I can with this child. :/ 

 

[lewelma]

I don't want to derail this thread, but I am curious: what specifically did you do to review math facts so frequently? Flash cards? Apps? Worksheets? All of the above? I hadn't thought of increasing the frequency of fact review to encourage mastery before -- what a good idea!

 

Handmade flashcards. 

 

This was for my older VERY mathy boy.  Here is a kid who might actually go to the IMO one day and he could not remember his facts to save himself. 

 

I made a graph with day on the bottom and time on the side (from 60s at the bottom to 6 minutes at the top).  He started at 6 minutes and his goal was to get down to 60 seconds.  Once he was doing them 3x/day 7x/week, it took 3 months.  I didn't make the 1s or 10s, so 2-9 by 2-9 minus the doubles (2x2), yields 56 cards.  I decided on 60seconds, because I could do them in 58 seconds without any warm up, so it seemed reasonable.  (However, it was not reasonable for my younger, who never got under 2 minutes, but that was good enough for him to demonstrate mastery).

 

Both of my sons found the graph to be very motivating -- the liked watching it go down.  And it also demonstrated what happened if they took a day or 2 off, because they would have a jump in time again. 

 

My younger would pull out the ones he was having trouble with and drill them separately, then mix them back in the pack and start the timer for the entire pack.  My older just did the pack as a whole.

 

Both kids had to do this process with subtraction, multiplication, and division (not addition because they were already fast). 

 

It was well worth the time, as now neither kid has to stop and ponder how to reduce a fraction or how to subtract 13x-7x etc. In math, you want the easy stuff automated so you can use your brain power on the hard stuff.  Half of the kids I tutor for algebra (age 14-15) have needed to drill their facts -- they got their own personal set of handmade flashcards. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

[Five More Minutes]

Handmade flashcards. 

 

This was for my older VERY mathy boy.  Here is a kid who might actually go to the IMO one day and he could not remember his facts to save himself. 

 

I made a graph with day on the bottom and time on the side (from 60s at the bottom to 6 minutes at the top).  He started at 6 minutes and his goal was to get down to 60 seconds.  Once he was doing them 3x/day 7x/week, it took 3 months.  I didn't make the 1s or 10s, so 2-9 by 2-9 minus the doubles (2x2), yields 56 cards.  I decided on 60seconds, because I could do them in 58 seconds without any warm up, so it seemed reasonable.  (However, it was not reasonable for my younger, who never got under 2 minutes, but that was good enough for him to demonstrate mastery).

 

Both of my sons found the graph to be very motivating -- the liked watching it go down.  And it also demonstrated what happened if they took a day or 2 off, because they would have a jump in time again. 

 

My younger would pull out the ones he was having trouble with and drill them separately, then mix them back in the pack and start the timer for the entire pack.  My older just did the pack as a whole.

 

Both kids had to do this process with subtraction, multiplication, and division (not addition because they were already fast). 

 

It was well worth the time, as now neither kid has to stop and ponder how to reduce a fraction or how to subtract 13x-7x etc. In math, you want the easy stuff automated so you can use your brain power on the hard stuff.  Half of the kids I tutor for algebra (age 14-15) have needed to drill their facts -- they got their own personal set of handmade flashcards. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Wow. Thanks for this explanation. I think that this may be exactly what at least one of my girls needs. She gets so stressed at anything computer-based, yet doesn't seem to make progress using flashcards once a day. But flashcards more frequently plus a graph ... genius! Thank you!

[Reefgazer]

This is kind of how the Saxon facts practice rolls; the student tries to beat their best time, with ever-increasing accuracy.  There is even a record sheet, to visualize progress.  It was very effective for my DD.

Handmade flashcards. 

 

This was for my older VERY mathy boy.  Here is a kid who might actually go to the IMO one day and he could not remember his facts to save himself. 

 

I made a graph with day on the bottom and time on the side (from 60s at the bottom to 6 minutes at the top).  He started at 6 minutes and his goal was to get down to 60 seconds.  Once he was doing them 3x/day 7x/week, it took 3 months.  I didn't make the 1s or 10s, so 2-9 by 2-9 minus the doubles (2x2), yields 56 cards.  I decided on 60seconds, because I could do them in 58 seconds without any warm up, so it seemed reasonable.  (However, it was not reasonable for my younger, who never got under 2 minutes, but that was good enough for him to demonstrate mastery).

 

Both of my sons found the graph to be very motivating -- the liked watching it go down.  And it also demonstrated what happened if they took a day or 2 off, because they would have a jump in time again. 

 

My younger would pull out the ones he was having trouble with and drill them separately, then mix them back in the pack and start the timer for the entire pack.  My older just did the pack as a whole.

 

Both kids had to do this process with subtraction, multiplication, and division (not addition because they were already fast). 

 

It was well worth the time, as now neither kid has to stop and ponder how to reduce a fraction or how to subtract 13x-7x etc. In math, you want the easy stuff automated so you can use your brain power on the hard stuff.  Half of the kids I tutor for algebra (age 14-15) have needed to drill their facts -- they got their own personal set of handmade flashcards. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

 

[Vida Winter]

Have not read other responses but would suggest Khan Academy.

[lewelma]

This is kind of how the Saxon facts practice rolls; the student tries to beat their best time, with ever-increasing accuracy.  There is even a record sheet, to visualize progress.  It was very effective for my DD.

 

I agree the record sheet is key.

 

However, in contrast to Saxon, I don't have them write them down.  For my kids at least, it would have been a test of writing speed rather than fact recall.  They do the cards orally.

 

I listen to their answers at first (and they check themselves on the back of the card), and after I'm sure that they have the right answers, I just let them drill to build up speed. 

[Heathermomster]

OP, can your child perform mental math or does he count on his fingers?

[Sue G in PA]

Actually, he is very good at mental math. He will often write the answer to problems w/out showing work or using fingers. 

[Heathermomster]

I taught my DS his multiplication tables by using the book Overcoming Difficulties with Number by Ronit Bird.

[fluffybunny]

My Ds could not learn his math facts with drills, but the CD Multiplication Vacation did it for him almost instantly. Also the game Timezattack. Ironic that I spent so much time and energy when a cd did all the work for me!

[OneStepAtATime]

Drilling with DD13 didn't help at all.  AT ALL.  But having her fill out a multiplication grid on a regular basis, study the patterns of that multiplication grid, do multiplication using the lattice method instead of standard, playing lots of math related games that didn't require completely memorized numbers for speed, doing a lot of skip counting, and using the materials that Heathermomster suggested in Overcoming Difficulties with Numbers by Ronit Bird definitely has helped her to finally start being able to recall those numbers more automatically.  I truly wish we had started these other methods sooner instead of just drill, drill, drill.

 

And DD is now working forward with scaffolding while still reviewing more basic material, too, because she is capable of and enjoys more advanced math concepts even though she struggles with automatic, speedy, recall.  When I kept just working on trying to solidify all the basics she was getting so frustrated and bored.  She needed both the challenge and mental exercise of more advanced math (with scaffolding) and the consistent work with the basics daily.  

 

Have you looked at Beast Academy?  My kids love Beast, although we do it as a group on a dry erase board, etc.  

 

Maybe use your math materials with a multiplication grid he creates himself every day or every other day?  

 

FWIW, I never memorized all of my multiplication tables.  I never seemed to be able to, either.  And I made it through college, had a great career, run the finances for the family business, handle all of our personal finances and am homeschooling two kids.  It helps to have those down.  But it isn't the be all and end all of existence, IMHO.   :)

 

Best wishes.   :grouphug: