Deep breath.....DD's 9th grade plans

[DragonFaerie]

Okay, I’m jumping into the deep end of the pool, so y’all be gentle with me.  Very, very gentle.  Here is the plan for DD, 9th grade.  It is a total of 7 credits. Music is the main reason she is homeschooling.  She wanted more time for study, lessons, and practice and is planning a dual major in college of music and wildlife biology. How did I do?

 

 

Intro to Literature and Composition (1 credit)

Easy Grammar, Grade 9; The Lively Art of Writing; Sentence Composing for High School; The Creative Writer, level 1; Marie’s Words vocabulary; Windows to the World followed by Excellence in Literature- Introduction to Literature and/or Literature and Composition

 

Algebra 1 (1 credit)

Saxon Algebra 1

 

Physical Science (1 credit)

Holt Science and Technology Physical Science; The New Way Things Work

 

World Geography (1 credit)

World Geography and You; Expedition Earth; Mapping the World With Art

 

Music Theory (1 credit)

Alfred’s Essentials of Music Theory Course, Books 2 and 3 in combination with band and private lessons

 

Music Appreciation (1 semester, 1/2 credit)

Accent on Composers; Amazing Musical Instruments

 

Music History (1 semester, 1/2 credit)

Idiots Guide to Music History; This Day in Music

 

Logic (1 semester, 1/2 credit)

The Art of Argument

 

Test Prep (1 semester, no credit)

Kaplan SAT/ACT Test Prep

 

 

Extra curricular

Private music lessons (theory/piano lessons and clarinet lessons)

Homeschool band (performance and theory, 2 hrs. per week)

Dance company (5 hrs. per week, 1/2 P. E. credit)

 

 

 

ETA: One semester of WttW before we get to EIL in the 2nd semester.

[katilac]

Looks pretty good. 

 

For English, does she need the separate grammar? If she does, definitely keep it, but she's solid, you can move on and just address things as they come up. I also have mine slowly read through a style book, like Strunk and White, in 9th. I'm not that familiar with your English choices, but you have several of them, lol, and I would be very surprised if none of them touched on grammar. They also may have some vocabulary, so you may not need a separate program for that. By high school, we no longer did separate spelling, vocabulary, or grammar. 

 

I would consider spreading the test prep over the year instead of one semester, unless one of your semester's is extra busy for some reason. I would also strongly consider not doing test prep at all  :)

 

If a science major is high on her list, I would think about biology instead of physical science. This gives her the chance to do bio, chem, physics, and then the 4th science could be an advanced biology or possibly just a different biology. Physical science in 9th is much less standard than it was back in my day. 

 

Math - you probably know this, but Saxon has one series with geometry separated out, and another series with it integrated into alg 1, alg 2, and advanced math. 

 

 

 

[Laurel-in-CA]

You have a *lot* of items under English. Sometimes I do that because I haven't figured out what will work yet, or I want to try different things with dd and see what works best. If you want to keep both grammar and vocab, you might consider assigning one to each semester, not both simultaneously. In our experience, Creative Writing is a *separate* and elective class.

 

In our experience, Physical Science is considered a middle school class/8th grade. Charter schools here won't count it for a science in high school, even if you have a lab with it; it's counted as an elective if you do it in high school. You might consider Astronomy/Earth Science as an alternative if the two of you aren't quite ready to tackle biology.

 

I have had my kids do a study skills semester, which could include some test prep, some vocab, some note-taking, some time management/planning. How soon are you planning for your dd to take ACT/SAT?

 

Just a few questions to consider.

[Kareni]

It looks good to me (though I'm no fan of Saxon; we used Margaret Lial's books for Algebra).

 

My daughter studied Physical Science in 9th grade; however, she was not intending to major in a science. (She ultimately went on to major in Latin at college and minor in Geology.)

 

Any chance of squeezing in a foreign language?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[DragonFaerie]

Looks pretty good. 

 

For English, does she need the separate grammar? If she does, definitely keep it, but she's solid, you can move on and just address things as they come up. I also have mine slowly read through a style book, like Strunk and White, in 9th. I'm not that familiar with your English choices, but you have several of them, lol, and I would be very surprised if none of them touched on grammar. They also may have some vocabulary, so you may not need a separate program for that. By high school, we no longer did separate spelling, vocabulary, or grammar. 

 

I would consider spreading the test prep over the year instead of one semester, unless one of your semester's is extra busy for some reason. I would also strongly consider not doing test prep at all  :)

 

If a science major is high on her list, I would think about biology instead of physical science. This gives her the chance to do bio, chem, physics, and then the 4th science could be an advanced biology or possibly just a different biology. Physical science in 9th is much less standard than it was back in my day. 

 

Math - you probably know this, but Saxon has one series with geometry separated out, and another series with it integrated into alg 1, alg 2, and advanced math. 

 

I wanted to keep going with some grammar because we are skipping 8th.  She is pretty good with it, but I wanted to keep a little something going.  What I like about Easy Grammar is that it is just one page per day for 180 days.  10 minutes per day, tops. The Lively Art of Writing and Sentence Composing will be her writing curriculum (which she needs).  Then, I have literature separately to make it a complete high school-level English course.

 

You have a *lot* of items under English. Sometimes I do that because I haven't figured out what will work yet, or I want to try different things with dd and see what works best. If you want to keep both grammar and vocab, you might consider assigning one to each semester, not both simultaneously. In our experience, Creative Writing is a *separate* and elective class.

 

In our experience, Physical Science is considered a middle school class/8th grade. Charter schools here won't count it for a science in high school, even if you have a lab with it; it's counted as an elective if you do it in high school. You might consider Astronomy/Earth Science as an alternative if the two of you aren't quite ready to tackle biology.

 

I have had my kids do a study skills semester, which could include some test prep, some vocab, some note-taking, some time management/planning. How soon are you planning for your dd to take ACT/SAT?

 

Just a few questions to consider.

The creative writing is her choice.  If she doesn't like it or it becomes too much, we'll drop it.  The vocabulary is not any actual *work*.  It's just vocab flashcards to help build her vocab for the SAT, which I am planning on having her take in the fall of her sophomore year.  That's why we're also doing the test prep, because she'll be taking the SAT fairly early (and she's pretty young), but she needs the SAT score in order to take CC classes in 11th and 12th (and maybe one in the Spring of 10th).

 

As for the science, I'm struggling with that.  I actually had a great plan for Earth Science in 9th using a few Great Courses and a self-teaching geology book.  Then I wanted to have her do Astronomy in 10th, again using Great Courses.  Biology with lab and then Chemistry with lab would be in 11th and 12th as dual-enrollment classes.  But, I changed to the Physical Science because she hasn't had much instruction in physical science.  Doesn't she need that?  If we don't do that, she won't have any physical science at all until physics in college.

 

It looks good to me (though I'm no fan of Saxon; we used Margaret Lial's books for Algebra).

 

My daughter studied Physical Science in 9th grade; however, she was not intending to major in a science. (She ultimately went on to major in Latin at college and minor in Geology.)

 

Any chance of squeezing in a foreign language?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

We do have a plan for a foreign language, but I'm not planning on starting it until 10th.  She's going to do Gaelic in 10th, 11th, and 12th.

 

Thanks so much for the responses, guys.  The feedback is really helpful.

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Dragon~

 

No advice as I am working on my first 9th grade plan also. I'll be posting soon. :ohmy:

 

Just wanted you to know you're not alone!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Dina

[~Anna~]

What about doing Conceptual Physics instead of the Physical Science?  Just a thought.

[DragonFaerie]

What about doing Conceptual Physics instead of the Physical Science?  Just a thought.

 

Oh, dear.  Now I'm going to have to show my ignorance.  I've seen references to Conceptual Physics, but I have no idea what that is. :confused1:

[~Anna~]

It's basically Physics without all the math.  Paul Hewitt is what most people use.  There is a college level book and a high school level book.

 

Here is a thread with resources:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/470118-hewitts-conceptual-physics-resources/

[DragonFaerie]

It's basically Physics without all the math.  Paul Hewitt is what most people use.  There is a college level book and a high school level book.

 

Here is a thread with resources:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/470118-hewitts-conceptual-physics-resources/

 

Thanks for the link.  That looks absolutely terrifying!  I don't think we're ready for that yet.  But I'm wondering, if DD does major in wildlife biology, that is an area of concentration under the environmental sciences major.  So, would I really be doing her much of a disservice if we focus on the earth science and astronomy then do bio and chem through dual enrollment?  It seems like those would be more in line with her college plans anyway.

 

[~Anna~]

Personally I think it would be fine.  But I haven't been there done that, in fact I am in the same position as you.......planning 9th next year for my DD.  We were originally going to do a semester of Astronomy and a semester of Meteorology because that is what she wanted to do (she is taking Physical Science this year).  I really wanted to do Physics first, but I wanted to do Apologia and I spoke to Dr. Wile at the convention and he thought she just might not be ready for it yet.  So we are either going to do the Astronomy/Meteorology or Biology, or maybe both.

[~Anna~]

Also, I don't think the Conceptual Physics would be terrifying.  Again, I haven't done it, but from everything I've read, it seemed to be a good introduction to Physics.  Someone else can correct me if I am wrong.

[~Anna~]

Here's a link to the high school conceptual physics book in case you wanted to see it:

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0133647498/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=R59GIB1WRJZ5&coliid=IC13PYC98IE2S

 

You can get older editions cheaper I think.

[DragonFaerie]

Here's a link to the high school conceptual physics book in case you wanted to see it:

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0133647498/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=R59GIB1WRJZ5&coliid=IC13PYC98IE2S

 

You can get older editions cheaper I think.

 

Thanks, Anna.  I'll check it out.

 

[bobbeym]

Also, I don't think the Conceptual Physics would be terrifying.  Again, I haven't done it, but from everything I've read, it seemed to be a good introduction to Physics.  Someone else can correct me if I am wrong.

 

Another option would be an Integrated Chemistry & Physics course.   DIVE offers several different syllabi depending on what text/spine you want to use and level of course difficulty, and is available by email to answer questions.  He also has CDs for Saxon math.

 

We've really enjoyed the DIVE video lessons this year, and will continue on next year for Biology.

[MarkT]

Why this

"Kaplan SAT/ACT Test Prep"  for a 9th grader??

Save this for 10th second semester or summer after.

 

Keep with physical science for now.  she can take conceptual or regular physics later on.  No rush for music or biology.

[MarkT]

What about doing Conceptual Physics instead of the Physical Science?  Just a thought.

 

Why?  Maybe Biology given her future plans.

[snowbeltmom]

If a science major is high on her list, I would think about biology instead of physical science. This gives her the chance to do bio, chem, physics, and then the 4th science could be an advanced biology or possibly just a different biology. Physical science in 9th is much less standard than it was back in my day. 

 

 

 

:iagree: Physical science is viewed more as a middle school course than a high school course these days.

 

[GailV]

Look at possible future university to see what they require for sciences.  One of dds' public school friends was unable to go to her first choice univ. because she had done physical science in 9th grade rather than the biology, chemistry, physics  lineup.  The issue was that she didn't have enough of what the university considers as lab sciences.  (It's possible that there's physical science  that is considered a high school lab science, and/or that other universities/other majors would've been fine with the physical science course she took --I'm just throwing it out there to illustrate the point that you need to think about these things with college admissions in mind. )

 

What you think of the value of earth science and astronomy for a wildlife biologist, and what a university offering the degree thinks of the value of doing them at a high school level, may well be totally different concepts, too.  Again, check with university requirements.  And keep in mind that you don't want to limit her options in case she decides later that she wants an even more "science-y" degree.

 

Frankly, I'd probably do biology in 9th grade since it's the path of least resistance -- there are plenty of biology courses designed for 9th graders.  Plus she's interested in wildlife biology anyway, which I suspect will come with a boatload of biology requirements in college -- she might be able to dual enroll an advanced biology course later in high school that will count towards that part of her dual major, which will be incredibly handy when she discovers how many college credit hours her dual degree will take.  

 

ETA:  If I'd known dd would end up wanting to dual major in disparate disciplines (in her case it's tech theatre and electrical engineering) I think we would've organized everything from 9th grade on to make sure she eventually got the maximum number of dual enrollment credits that would apply directly to one of those degrees.  She got a lot of dual enrollment credits, but will still need at least 9 semesters to get through everything she wants to do in college.

[~Anna~]

Why? Maybe Biology given her future plans.

Because others had stated that Physical Science is considered a middle school course and the OP said she was worried her DD hadn't had exposure to the physical sciences already. I figured conceptual physics would be considered better than physical science in high school and would still give her the exposure she was asking for.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Something that helped me plan 9th grade was to do a rough plan of all of high school. That made me consider what courses I wanted them to be able to take senior year. I also considered the issue of needing to have various test results in hand by fall of senior year in order for them to be considered on college apps.

 

It has to be written in sand because thing change and plans don't always work. But it helped me conceive of the big picture.

 

Is there any way that AP Environmental Science might be an option? I'm wondering if that would be a good match for geography. Something of a physical geography political geography coordination.

 

 

 

Has your dd contacted any universities about what a strong applicant for the science program would have?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Out of curiosity, what do you get from her skipping 8th grade? Several of the courses could be done by an 8th grader. For example the Windows to the World was something I used in a coop class of 8th and 9th graders.

 

Doing more demanding work in 8th grade would buy her one more year of music development and time for math and science courses. It would let her do a course like physical science without worrying if it is enough for high school.

 

It is not uncommon to put a few courses on the transcript that are high school level but were taken before 9th grade. My middle son will have both math and language courses noted on his transcript as before 9th grade. In the large ps district we lived in this was standard (and almost required for the students on more demanding college bound tracks).

[regentrude]

Out of curiosity, what do you get from her skipping 8th grade? Several of the courses could be done by an 8th grader.

 

Yes, I have been wondering this as well. Why do you want to skip a student who is not academically accelerated?

Her math and science plans sound pretty standard for a good 8th grade student.

Why the rush?

 

ETA: I am not principally opposed to skipping grades; my DD did skip 8th grade - but her academic situation was very different.

[kiana]

Is she skipping 8th or is she skipping grammar in 8th?

 

If she's skipping 8th, I have to echo the 'why' question -- she's on track for a rather average 9th grade, and I can't see a benefit to hurrying up to be average. Of course, if she IS the standard age-for-grade, I certainly wouldn't hold her back either.

[~Anna~]

I read it as she was skipping grammar in 8th, not the whole 8th grade year.

[freesia]

I read it as she was skipping grammar in 8th, not the whole 8th grade year.

Except her signature lists her dd as 12.

[DragonFaerie]

Why this

"Kaplan SAT/ACT Test Prep"  for a 9th grader??

Save this for 10th second semester or summer after.

 

Keep with physical science for now.  she can take conceptual or regular physics later on.  No rush for music or biology.

 

She has to have an SAT score to do dual enrollment.  If she wants to take even one DE class in 10th, then we have to get the SAT done before that, thus prepping for it at the end of 9th and taking the test in the fall of 10th grade.  That way she can take a DE course in the spring.

 

It has to be written in sand because thing change and plans don't always work. But it helped me conceive of the big picture.

 

Is there any way that AP Environmental Science might be an option? I'm wondering if that would be a good match for geography. Something of a physical geography political geography coordination.

 

 

 

I had originally planned the Earth Science because it would coincide nicely with the World Geography.  Biology and Chemistry with labs will be covered by DE courses, and thus will have to wait for 11th and 12th grade.  The plan is Bio 1 and Bio 2 in 11th and Chem 1 and Chem 2 in 12th, which would give her four DE science courses.  I actually do have tentative plans for the whole of high school.  I'll post those separately, but remember.... be very gentle.  I'm learning here.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you get from her skipping 8th grade? Several of the courses could be done by an 8th grader. For example the Windows to the World was something I used in a coop class of 8th and 9th graders.

 

Doing more demanding work in 8th grade would buy her one more year of music development and time for math and science courses. It would let her do a course like physical science without worrying if it is enough for high school.

 

It is not uncommon to put a few courses on the transcript that are high school level but were taken before 9th grade. My middle son will have both math and language courses noted on his transcript as before 9th grade. In the large ps district we lived in this was standard (and almost required for the students on more demanding college bound tracks).

 

She saw the recent article about the girl who finished her college degree just ahead of graduating from high school at 16 and decided that she wants to do that.  She's not going to make the college degree part, but I see no reason not to let her go for the high school part.  I've spoken with her music teachers, and they all agree that musically, she will be just fine to do that.  So now I'm trying to put together the academics for her.  I'm not really sure why her math doesn't seem to be on track, though.  Alg 1 in 9th, Alg 2 in 10th, Geometry w/ Trig in 11th, and Pre-Calc in 12th.  That seems pretty standard.

[DragonFaerie]

Okay, here's the whole tentative high school plan.  Be gentle:

 

Math

Grade 9- Algebra I (Saxon)

Grade 10- Algebra II (Saxon)

Grade 11- *Geometry with Trigonometry (Saxon Advanced Math, lessons 1-90)

Grade 12- Pre-Calculus (Saxon Advanced Math, Lessons 60 – 125; begin Saxon Calculus)

 

* Notes from Saxon: Year 1-Complete lessons 1-90 in one year by only doing half the problems each day (i.e. day 1-problems 1-15 and day 2-problems 16-30). Every lesson and every problem MUST BE completed (do NOT skip anything). 

* Notes from Saxon: Year 2-Go back to lesson 60 through the end of the book (lesson 125). Again, follow the same pattern of completing half the lessons per day (as mentioned in the above bullet for year 1). You should have approximately 9 weeks of school left. Complete Lessons 1-25 of Saxon Calculus-2nd edition (it will take your child through functions & derivatives). 

 

English

Grade 9- Intro to Literature and Composition (Windows to the World; Excellence in Literature); Easy Grammar 9; Sentence Composing for High School; The Lively Art of Writing; The Creative Writer I

Grade 10- American Literature (Excellence in Literature); Paragraph Writing for High School

Grade 11- British Literature (Excellence in Literature)

Grade 12- World Literature (Excellence in Literature)

 

History

Grade 9- World Geography (World Geography and You, Expedition Earth, Smithsonian’s Geography Encyclopedia, Mapping the World With Art)

Grade 10- World History I

Grade 11- World History II

Grade 12- US History (America: The Last Best Hope), DE- POLS 1101 (American Government)

 

Logic

Grade 9- The Art of Argument (.5 high school credit)

Grade 10- The Fallacy Detective and The Thinking Toolbox (1 high school credit)

 

Science

Grade 9- Physical Science (Holt) or do Earth Science

Grade 10- Earth Science- Teaching Company courses: Nature of Earth (36 lessons); Geology: A Self Teaching Guide (book); World’s Greatest Geological Wonders (26 lessons); Oceanography (36 lessons); Meteorology (24 lessons); Changing Planet  (Biointeractive DVD); The Day the Mesozoic Died (Bioineractive DVD)

If Earth Science in 9th, then Astronomy in 10th:

Grade 10- Astronomy- Teaching Company courses: Understanding the Universe (96 lessons);  Our Night Sky (12 lessons); Life and Death of Stars (24 lessons)

Grade 11- Biology- (DE- BIOL 1101 / 1101L, 1 semester; BIOL 1102 / 1102L, 1 semester)

Grade 12- Chemistry (DE- CHEM 1151 / 1151L, 1 semester; CHEM 1152 / 1152L, 1 semester)

 

Music

Grade 9- Intro to Music History and Appreciation (full credit)- Accent on Composers, Idiots Guide to Music History, This Day in Music, Amazing Musical Instruments

               Music Theory I (full credit)- Alfred’s Essentials of Music Theory

Grade 10- Music Appreciation II (full credit)- Teaching Company courses (How to Listen to and Understand Great Music; How Music and Math Relate)

                 Music Theory II (full credit)- ABRSM

Grade 11- Music History II (full credit)- Discovering Music curriculum; Exploring America’s Music Heritage

                 Music Theory III (full credit)- ABRSM

Grade 12- Music Theory IV (full credit)- ABRSM

                 DE- MUSC 1100 (music appreciation)

                                   

Foreign Language

Grade 10- Gaelic I

Grade 11- Gaelic II

Grade 12- Gaelic III

 

P. E.

Grade 9- Dance (company; 1/2 credit)

Grade 10- Dance (company; 1/2 credit)

Grade 11- Dance (company; 1/2 credit)

Grade 12- Dance (company; 1/2 credit); Nutrition (1/2 credit)- Teaching Company (Nutrition  Made Clear, 36 lessons)

[regentrude]

 I'm not really sure why her math doesn't seem to be on track, though.  Alg 1 in 9th, Alg 2 in 10th, Geometry w/ Trig in 11th, and Pre-Calc in 12th.  That seems pretty standard.

 

This is the standard sequence for an average student.

A strong student would often have taken algebra 1 in 8th grade and complete calculus by the end of senior year. (For a student who is not on track of covering calculus in 12th, I would not remotely consider grade skipping.)

 

An exceptionally strong student who really needs a grade skip would be one who completed a rigorous algebra  in 7th grade and will still, with the skip, complete calculus in 12th or even 11th grade.

 

ETA: I am also confused about your SAT timing: the SAT math section contains geometry which she won't have covered.

 

2nd ETA: I would not have my student take a college biology class without having taken a high school chemistry course. And I do not think a student will really understand the TC astronomy course without prior physics.

[CinV]

 

 

 

She saw the recent article about the girl who finished her college degree just ahead of graduating from high school at 16 and decided that she wants to do that.  She's not going to make the college degree part, but I see no reason not to let her go for the high school part.  I've spoken with her music teachers, and they all agree that musically, she will be just fine to do that.  So now I'm trying to put together the academics for her.  I'm not really sure why her math doesn't seem to be on track, though.  Alg 1 in 9th, Alg 2 in 10th, Geometry w/ Trig in 11th, and Pre-Calc in 12th.  That seems pretty standard.

 

Alg 1 in 8th is becoming increasingly standard in many states (especially for the college track) and I would really want a student to have exposure to Geometry before taking the SAT.

[DragonFaerie]

The college she wants to go to is not super competitive.  From their website:

 

"The four units must include algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2 or a comparable college-preparatory sequence."

 

ETA: "Admissions preference is given to students whose fourth year of math is above the level of algebra 2 (e.g., trigonometry, pre-calculus, calculus, AP statistics)."

 

 

[regentrude]

The college she wants to go to is not super competitive.  From their website:

 

"The four units must include algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2 or a comparable college-preparatory sequence."

 

ETA: "Admissions preference is given to students whose fourth year of math is above the level of algebra 2 (e.g., trigonometry, pre-calculus, calculus, AP statistics)."

 

I would be very concerned to lock in a 12 year old into a specific college choice. I would prefer her high school education keep doors open in case she changes her mind.

 

ETA: I am saying this coming from the experience of having a very mature, very determined kid with extremely firm career plans from age 5 to 13 who then completely changed her mind ( she ditched the long standing plan for a bio major when she took high school chemistry and realized that she would hate having to take 4+ semesters of chem as  a bio major). Not saying this will happen to your DD, but kids DO change their mind about things.

[DragonFaerie]

I would be very concerned to lock in a 12 year old into a specific college choice. I would prefer her high school education keep doors open in case she changes her mind.

 

I agree, but she does have a target school in mind.  Also, there don't seem to be very many schools that offer this specific major.

 

ETA: Not only that, but if things change, she can always take DE math classes later if need be.

[regentrude]

ETA: Not only that, but if things change, she can always take DE math classes later if need be.

 

When would she take DE math if she is only finishing precalc in 12th?

 

[DragonFaerie]

When would she take DE math if she is only finishing precalc in 12th?

 

 

If she takes DE pre-calc in the 1st semester and DE calculus in the 2nd semester of 12th.

[kiana]

Science: I would be pretty concerned about a potential stem major (or anyone, really, but the understanding is essential for a potential stem major) taking de biology/chemistry without having taken high school biology/chemistry first. I'd really hate to turn a kid off something they're very interested in by throwing them in over their head. I'd be more inclined to do the standard bio/chem/phys classes at the high school level and then pick one for DE. It seems that your intended schedule is going from very average high school (9th/10th grades) to accelerated high school(11th/12th grades) and I just don't think this kind of a jump is a good idea without scaffolding.

 

Math: I *really* think she'd be better off not taking summer breaks (and not repeating the Saxon AM, because it's not necessary if you don't take a summer break) and just working through until advanced math is finished. This would leave time for her to take AP/DE calculus or statistics if her mind changes, and put her more on the level of a strong high school student rather than an average one. Yes, you're looking at the minimum requirements for admittance, but there are likely to be significantly higher requirements for scholarships, and if she changes her mind, she'll be behind the curve. Furthermore, a double major is difficult (especially in two completely unrelated areas) and you want her coming in ready to hit the ground running.

 

History: The sequence seems fine, but world geography and you is intended for students with learning difficulties -- the reading level is not high school, and expedition earth (unless there's a different program of that name) is an elementary school program. I'd be really reluctant to use those as the primary resources for a college-bound student.

 

Music: I think DE music appreciation is likely to be a waste of her time and your money. I mean, yes, it should be an easy A, but it's going to be filled with bored students who don't really like music that much but think it's got to be better than taking art appreciation or theatre. Usually (not always, I guess) a music major can fulfill their fine arts gen ed with a music history for majors course instead. I'd either skip it (she'll still have a LOT more music credits than most other students), do something more rigorous at home, or DE a course for majors if you think it'll transfer.

 

Foreign language: I assume you have a plan for how to accomplish this unusual language, so fine.

 

English and PE: look fine

[Melissa B]

I would be hesitant to take DE Biology and Chemistry without taking them in high school and with that level of math. My dd is dual enrolled and here students (any students, not just DE students) can't even take the Intro to Chemistry class that comes before Chem 1151 without either taking precalc at the college or passing their equivalent math test. Have you looked into other science options at the college? Dd's college has several interesting science classes without the math and science prerequisites of Bio I/II and Chem I/II: Intro to Biology, Intro to Chemistry, Intro to Oceanography, Wildlife Issues, Plants & Plagues, etc.

[DragonFaerie]

Science: I would be pretty concerned about a potential stem major (or anyone, really, but the understanding is essential for a potential stem major) taking de biology/chemistry without having taken high school biology/chemistry first. I'd really hate to turn a kid off something they're very interested in by throwing them in over their head. I'd be more inclined to do the standard bio/chem/phys classes at the high school level and then pick one for DE. It seems that your intended schedule is going from very average high school (9th/10th grades) to accelerated high school(11th/12th grades) and I just don't think this kind of a jump is a good idea without scaffolding.

 

Math: I *really* think she'd be better off not taking summer breaks (and not repeating the Saxon AM, because it's not necessary if you don't take a summer break) and just working through until advanced math is finished. This would leave time for her to take AP/DE calculus or statistics if her mind changes, and put her more on the level of a strong high school student rather than an average one. Yes, you're looking at the minimum requirements for admittance, but there are likely to be significantly higher requirements for scholarships, and if she changes her mind, she'll be behind the curve. Furthermore, a double major is difficult (especially in two completely unrelated areas) and you want her coming in ready to hit the ground running.

 

History: The sequence seems fine, but world geography and you is intended for students with learning difficulties -- the reading level is not high school, and expedition earth (unless there's a different program of that name) is an elementary school program. I'd be really reluctant to use those as the primary resources for a college-bound student.

 

Music: I think DE music appreciation is likely to be a waste of her time and your money. I mean, yes, it should be an easy A, but it's going to be filled with bored students who don't really like music that much but think it's got to be better than taking art appreciation or theatre. Usually (not always, I guess) a music major can fulfill their fine arts gen ed with a music history for majors course instead. I'd either skip it (she'll still have a LOT more music credits than most other students), do something more rigorous at home, or DE a course for majors if you think it'll transfer.

 

Foreign language: I assume you have a plan for how to accomplish this unusual language, so fine.

 

English and PE: look fine

 

Thank you.  This is very helpful.  I didn't even think about high school versus college bio and chem.  Very good points.  I'll have to rethink that.  I have so much stuff for earth science and astronomy, and she really enjoys that, so I don't want to discard that altogether.  I wonder if I could do the earth science/astronomy together in 9th, bio in 10th, chem in 11th, and then do a DE bio w/ lab and a DE chem w/ lab both in 12th.  Does that sound reasonable?

 

With math, we always school over the summer, so your suggestion of not repeating those lessons per the Saxon suggestion is a good one.  Great, really, because then she would be able to take a college level course after Saxon pre-calc. 

 

The music course was just a thought, something "easy" to get her feet wet in DE courses.  It's not necessary, I don't think, and it's certainly something I could substitute with something else instead.

 

 

[DragonFaerie]

History: The sequence seems fine, but world geography and you is intended for students with learning difficulties -- the reading level is not high school, and expedition earth (unless there's a different program of that name) is an elementary school program. I'd be really reluctant to use those as the primary resources for a college-bound student.

 

 

I'm confused about the Expedition Earth (Knowledge Quest).  Their website says that it could easily be a high school level course:

 

"The included lesson plans and quizzes convert this book into a 1 year course in world geography. *Should you decide to use this geography curriculum with high school students, keep in mind that they may receive a full geography credit for 120 hours of time spent interacting with the material or a 1/2 credit for 60 hrs."

 

We're finishing the World Geography and You and doing the Mapping the World with Art to round out the EE curriculum.

 

[DragonFaerie]

I would be hesitant to take DE Biology and Chemistry without taking them in high school and with that level of math. My dd is dual enrolled and here students (any students, not just DE students) can't even take the Intro to Chemistry class that comes before Chem 1151 without either taking precalc at the college or passing their equivalent math test. Have you looked into other science options at the college? Dd's college has several interesting science classes without the math and science prerequisites of Bio I/II and Chem I/II: Intro to Biology, Intro to Chemistry, Intro to Oceanography, Wildlife Issues, Plants & Plagues, etc.

 

Excellent ideas.  Thank you.  I'll look into those options, too.

 

[kiana]

I'm confused about the Expedition Earth (Knowledge Quest).  Their website says that it could easily be a high school level course:

 

"The included lesson plans and quizzes convert this book into a 1 year course in world geography. *Should you decide to use this geography curriculum with high school students, keep in mind that they may receive a full geography credit for 120 hours of time spent interacting with the material or a 1/2 credit for 60 hrs."

 

We're finishing the World Geography and You and doing the Mapping the World with Art to round out the EE curriculum.

 

 

Yes, clearly there are two of that name -- the one from knowledge quest seems fine. :)

[regentrude]

 then do a DE bio w/ lab and a DE chem w/ lab both in 12th.  Does that sound reasonable?

 

I am not sure I understand this completely:

are you talking about having her do the two semester sequence of biology and chemistry concurrently? If so, I would make sure you and she understand the time commitment involved in a college science lab course. Two hours outside of class for every hour of lecture/recitation, plus extra time for the labs. I would not have my dually enrolled student take two sciences concurrently.

 

Or are you talking about one semester of each, i.e. half the sequence in each? I would not do this either.

 

ETA: I would make sure she has some exposure to physics in high school. I teach a college physics class designed specifically for biology majors, and many of my students struggle.

[DragonFaerie]

I am not sure I understand this completely:

are you talking about having her do the two semester sequence of biology and chemistry concurrently? If so, I would make sure you and she understand the time commitment involved in a college science lab course. Two hours outside of class for every hour of lecture/recitation, plus extra time for the labs. I would not have my dually enrolled student take two sciences concurrently.

 

Or are you talking about one semester of each, i.e. half the sequence in each? I would not do this either.

 

ETA: I would make sure she has some exposure to physics in high school. I teach a college physics class designed specifically for biology majors, and many of my students struggle.

 

Hmmm...I was thinking one DE semester of biology and one DE semester of chemistry during 12th.  Perhaps that's not the best idea.  If we need to chose one or the other, I'd probably go for biology as it's her area of interest.  It seems, then, that we are kind of locked into the bio/chem/physics sequence for 9th, 10th, and 11th, and if she wants to do DE bio for 12th, there doesn't seem to be any time for other sciences.  How can we do something like environmental science or oceanography or meteorology without taking double the science classes at a time?  Is this the trade off for going the DE route?  Or could she take something like that instead of DE bio?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

[kiana]

Hmmm...I was thinking one DE semester of biology and one DE semester of chemistry during 12th.  Perhaps that's not the best idea.  If we need to chose one or the other, I'd probably go for biology as it's her area of interest.  It seems, then, that we are kind of locked into the bio/chem/physics sequence for 9th, 10th, and 11th, and if she wants to do DE bio for 12th, there doesn't seem to be any time for other sciences.  How can we do something like environmental science or oceanography or meteorology without taking double the science classes at a time?  Is this the trade off for going the DE route?  Or could she take something like that instead of DE bio?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

Summer school, extra year, or doing a light reading course for exposure with no real output requirements. In the 3rd case I wouldn't even transcript it, but the knowledge would still be useful. Not everything has to be on the transcript.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The college she wants to go to is not super competitive.  From their website:

 

"The four units must include algebra 1, geometry, and algebra 2 or a comparable college-preparatory sequence."

 

ETA: "Admissions preference is given to students whose fourth year of math is above the level of algebra 2 (e.g., trigonometry, pre-calculus, calculus, AP statistics)."

 

Of course any suggestions can only be based on the snippet of info you've shared. And all suggestions will be colored by our own experiences and hard lessons learned.

 

What I have seen with some students is that there is a difference between what meets the minimum admissions requirements at a school and what meets the admissions requirements for a particular department or major (that is either harder than general studies or more in demand). There is a difference between the minimum for students who are otherwise being sought out (be they athletes, particular demographics, out of state full pay students or something else) and the minimum for students who are in abundant supply (ie, not representing something the college is in need of).  There is a difference between being admitted and being admitted into an honors college (which can make a non-selective, state school something more beneficial academically and with respect to peer networks) or earning substantial scholarships.

 

Some of this is hard to figure out.  Some of it may be rather apparent. 

 

I do alumni interviews for my alma mater. There is a huge pool of applicants from Virginia and Maryland and from California.  It is much harder for a student from those areas to earn a spot than for a student from North Dakota or from an area that historically doesn't have much interest.  So a student from Hazard County, Kentucky can be accepted with much lower scores and academic credentials than a student from a high school area where college bound graduates typically take a half dozen AP courses, graduate with calculus, or earn an IB diploma.  When I counsel students, I try to help them see that there is a difference between meeting the minimum requirements and being competitive.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Hmmm...I was thinking one DE semester of biology and one DE semester of chemistry during 12th.  Perhaps that's not the best idea.  If we need to chose one or the other, I'd probably go for biology as it's her area of interest.  It seems, then, that we are kind of locked into the bio/chem/physics sequence for 9th, 10th, and 11th, and if she wants to do DE bio for 12th, there doesn't seem to be any time for other sciences.  How can we do something like environmental science or oceanography or meteorology without taking double the science classes at a time?  Is this the trade off for going the DE route?  Or could she take something like that instead of DE bio?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

I think this is the trade off for trying to accelerate graduation. I may be reading too much into it, but it sounds like she is trying to graduate early age-wise, while also preparing for a demanding college course of studies (double major with two disparate programs).

 

What if instead of starting 9th grade next fall, she started 8th grade, with the same general courses you've outlined.  That would let her get farther along in math before starting DE.  It might also give her the time to take more courses at the CC.

 

FWIW, I had planned on starting my oldest son at the CC this fall (his 11th grade year) with pre-calculus.  Then I realized that pre-calc was a 6 credit course.  High Schoolers are limited to 6 credits each semester. I also don't want him taking what would be a demanding, high speed course his first semester out. So we are ratcheting back expectations to something that has a more gradual onramp, but will still allow him to either be ready for solid completion of calculus as a college freshman or perhaps take a semester or full year of calc in the college. 

 

But my biggest aim is to not send him off to the CC to fail.

[regentrude]

Hmmm...I was thinking one DE semester of biology and one DE semester of chemistry during 12th.  Perhaps that's not the best idea.

 

One semester of each does not sound like a good idea - she'd have started both sequences, but not finished. Also, depending on college, it may be possible that some courses only run every other semester, something you need to check out carefully,

 

If we need to chose one or the other, I'd probably go for biology as it's her area of interest.  It seems, then, that we are kind of locked into the bio/chem/physics sequence for 9th, 10th, and 11th, and if she wants to do DE bio for 12th, there doesn't seem to be any time for other sciences.  How can we do something like environmental science or oceanography or meteorology without taking double the science classes at a time?  Is this the trade off for going the DE route?  Or could she take something like that instead of DE bio?  Or am I misunderstanding something?

 

I think the above is a trade-off for the grade skip. If you carry out your coursework as planned, but call it 8th grade, she has time to do earth science and astronomy in 8th. You do not have to change anything, she can do dual enrollment in high school just as well, but you would not lose the year.

And you can always later change your mind and call it 9th in retrospect - the point of no return is declaring Junior year for the PSAT. Not before that.

 

Alternatively, you could add a half-credit science elective each year and cover those subjects that way without overloading on science too much.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

FWIW, I have a not dissimilar situation.  My two older sons have done the same subjects for school for years.  The oldest is on solid college bound territory. His brother is somewhat accelerated.

 

What I have told the younger son is that I will put math and foreign language on his transcript if they were taken before 9th grade (he will have algebra 1, possibly algebra 2, German 1 and Latin 1). For other subjects, he will get the equivalent of an extra year of high school level work. He doesn't have to repeat the work he did in 8th grade (ie, I'm not making him redo those assignments or re-read those books just to "get credit"). Instead, when he does English literature, he will go a little farther. When he does history, if he does repeat a period or a focus, he will do it with some different angle (AP level or more of a special studies focus).

 

So you could tell your dd that you will start assigning high school level work, if that is where she is at. But for the moment you will keep her at 8th grade. If in a couple years, you all decide that early graduation is the best idea, then what was done in 2014-15 gets listed on the transcript as 9th grade.  If you decide it's best to consider 2014-15 as 8th grade, then you cherry pick the courses you want to include on the transcript as "above the line" courses.  But either way, you've held the plan loosely and not painted yourselves into a corner.

 

If I were doing something like this, I would probably decide to make the choice to accelerate in such a way that the student was declared as a junior two years before graduating, so that the PSAT scores could be used as National Merit Scholarship qualification scores.  This also gives you the biggest window of time for college applications.  In effect, the year skipped would be sophomore year (as 8th becomes 9th and 9th becomes 10th, then the student takes 11th and 12th grade).  [i hope that last bit made sense.]

 

There are some advantages to getting to college younger. Better academics for an accelerated student. But there are some disadvantages too.  This is a topic that cuts close in our family, because my dh did skip 8th grade, going from 7th at a ps to 9th at a test based private school. He was also young for his grade. This meant that he wasn't old enough to drive when he started college and wasn't old enough to drink when he graduated. He had a good college experience, but also saw some of the drawbacks. This is part of why we didn't declare our middle son as a grade ahead, even though he is doing the same work as his older brother. 

 

Just my $0.02 and worth about that.  Now I'm off to marinate chicken for dinner.

 

 

[SukiAlice]

She saw the recent article about the girl who finished her college degree just ahead of graduating from high school at 16 and decided that she wants to do that.  She's not going to make the college degree part, but I see no reason not to let her go for the high school part. 

 

I used to read about kids going to college at 16 or whatever and get upset that I wasn't on track for that, but then I realized I was going to have more time to do the things I'm interested in/learn everything properly if I didn't rush it. So I get the appeal of graduating early, but I'd have her consider whether she really wants to do that or have more time for the extra sciences and more math, and whatever else. I ended up deciding I'd rather stay on the normal track but learn more advanced things. Of course what was right for me might not be right for her, just throwing it out there.

[DragonFaerie]

Thanks for all the input, everybody.  I really appreciate it.  I do have a question about dual enrollment, though.  Someone up thread mentioned not doing DE biology when she hasn't had high school biology.  But I thought that was the point of DE, to take one CC course that satisfied the high school requirement, too.  Am I confused here?