Deep breath.....DD's 9th grade plans

[SukiAlice]

Thanks for all the input, everybody.  I really appreciate it.  I do have a question about dual enrollment, though.  Someone up thread mentioned not doing DE biology when she hasn't had high school biology.  But I thought that was the point of DE, to take one CC course that satisfied the high school requirement, too.  Am I confused here?

Since it's college level, I'm guessing she'd need some background in it. With AP classes (which are supposed to be college level) they usually want you to have prior experience in the subject. I've been under the impression the point of dual enrollment is more to earn college credit/take more advanced things. 

[SilverMoon]

Logic

Grade 9- The Art of Argument (.5 high school credit)

Grade 10- The Fallacy Detective and The Thinking Toolbox (1 high school credit) 

Other posters have covered the major subjects. I wanted to point out that Fallacy Detective is a step back from Art of Argument. Argument Builder from CAP is a better next step. :)

[DragonFaerie]

Other posters have covered the major subjects. I wanted to point out that Fallacy Detective is a step back from Art of Argument. Argument Builder from CAP is a better next step. :)

 

Really?  Okay, thanks for the info.  I thought I'd seen the order of these on another post somewhere, but I could be wrong.  I'll look into Argument Builder instead.  Thanks.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I don't want to discourage you at all but I do want to chime in as someone whose children were phenomenally advanced from birth to age 12 to 14 or so, but then leveled out to just be "above average" or something...part of what happened was that they finally became more social (late bloomers) and more well-rounded overall, so the academic acceleration leveled out. An outcome I'm very pleased with, by the way.

Why am I bringing this up? Because at age 12 with a super bright and motivated kid, everything looks astoundingly possible on paper.

But you can't assume that the rate of progress will remain the same. Not when you're talking about developmental leaps in math and science that can't necessarily be forced, even by the student herself. You can't assume she can handle accelerated chem and accelerated bio in a single year, or that you can heap up credits and outsourced classes. There's a tremendous human element to homeschooling through high school, and most find that they can EITHER accelerate and graduate very early OR do very rigorous, competitive college prep with lots of true DE courses involved.

You can look at DE courses on your local uni's website to get an idea of what's expected for students who will be succeeding. You'll often find that the students are already way ahead and have proved their readiness through testing and prior courses already. The college half of the DE is seriously college level, so you probably don't want to come into it totally cold for math and science courses.

I really sound like a wet blanket (sorry) but I think my point is to recommend more research before starting down this road.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yes you can count DE as high school credit. But it is a college level course. Many students benefit from having a course on the high school level first.

 

So a student might take bio, chem and physics at a high school level then take one or two at the college level (via AP or DE classes). Or they might shift to the college level at some point in their high school years.

 

Do remember that the college level courses will be collage level. And if they are DE the grades will go into a college transcript that may follow them to their four year school.

[regentrude]

  I do have a question about dual enrollment, though.  Someone up thread mentioned not doing DE biology when she hasn't had high school biology.  But I thought that was the point of DE, to take one CC course that satisfied the high school requirement, too.  Am I confused here?

 

Usually a college course moves at a faster pace and covers the material in more depth than a high school course. You can simply compare a high school biology text with a college biology text for biology majors and see the difference. A course for majors will be a notch above a general course for non-majors (which is why I would only recommend courses for non majors as dual enrollment for a student with no previous high school course.)

 

In some subjects, college courses may be designed to assume no prior knowledge (for example, my physics course for bio majors), but in others subjects, colleges may safely assume that every incoming student had a high school course (biology for example, which is a graduation requirement for high schools in many states).

 

Dual enrollment is a great way to get advanced coursework that is above the regular high school level, and count it for high school credit at the same time. DE is not usually a good instrument to cover regular high school level material.

Most students benefit from prior exposure to high school level science courses before embarking on college science classes - with the exception of some intro courses for non-majors, which can be more comparable to high school classes. But a student majoring in a science who takes a course in that science designed for non-majors will not have this credit count towards her degree.

[lewelma]

Dragon,

 

I attended a University of Nevada, Reno in the Department of Wildlife Biology http://www.cabnr.unr.edu/nres/bs_wildlife_ecology_conservation.aspx . I went there for graduate school at the age of 21 because I had skipped a grade earlier.  One major concern for me was safety.  I am a small woman, and was young.  I actually considered buying a gun to carry on my person when I was doing field research alone (never did, though).  And as an undergraduate, you dd should consider the physical nature of the work.  I used to carry 120 pounds of traps to the study site, and then run the trap lines with 60 pounds of traps on my back.  There is a bit of a macho thing that happens in wildlife biology, and I would not have ever even considered asking for someone to carry my load.  I carried the same as the 25-year old men.  She may want to consider the realities of this specific speciality for a young woman.  In hindsight, I wish I had been older.

 

On a different note, my concern with the science is the lack of textbook work in 9th and 10th grade.  It appears to me that she will be using mostly video based materials for her first 2 years of high school, and then doing a pretty dramatic step up in 11th and 12th grade in DE.   Regardless of which science she chooses to take in 9th and 10th, I would make sure that they were textbook based because she needs to learn how to use a textbook.  Wildlife Biology is still Biology and it is hard.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Laurel-in-CA]

Really?  Okay, thanks for the info.  I thought I'd seen the order of these on another post somewhere, but I could be wrong.  I'll look into Argument Builder instead.  Thanks.

 

I'd use Fallacy Detective to add some humor to art of argument. You can follow AoA with either Discovery of Deduction (formal logic, supplement with thinking toolbox) or Argument Builder. I think Argument Builder would help buttress writing skills...that's why I'm having my high schooler use it, anyway.

[Emmie]

 

I haven't read through this entire thread- so I apologize if the talk has moved on from the original question, but my concern with your outline is that college admissions is going to see a transcript for someone that is a Junior who had a demanding 8th grade school year- because that is what you seem to have designed for high school. I understand wanting to help your DD accomplish her desires, but my worry is that this schedule could set her up to not get what she wants. As an example of someone who has kind of 'been there, done that', my DD started Homeschool in 8th grade, and we had no idea about curriculums- so we chose the first one we saw that we liked, k12. We enrolled independently and she was set to finish algebra 1 that year... well the curriculum was terrible  [for her learning style] and she went from being a year ahead in math to a year behind (not even on track... BEHIND by a year.) DD has worked really hard to get back on track and after this summer she will be ready for AP calc in the fall ( her senior year). So back on track- my personal recommendation would be to design a very rigorous 8th grade year that will prepare her for Biology, Geometry, a tenth grade level english and a 10th grade level history. She can still start dual enrollment at the same time you had wanted her to, but this will put her on track to have a rigorous HS transcript. And the thing is, she can still graduate early if she does one of two things

1. Works through the summers.

2. Does a block schedule. 

 

If she does a block schedule she can get 8 courses done per year instead of 6 and graduate a bit early. Working through the summer could let her graduate a year or two early depending on how fast she works. I would highly recommend you reconsider having her skip 8th grade. Skipping 8th grade is great for a child who is advanced in their studies RIGHT NOW. Not a child that plans to be advanced. Your 9th grade layout is pretty much identical to what my DD's 8th grade schedule was, and even she took advanced physical science that year  (it was noted somewhere that the science you have is not rigorous, which is why I mentioned DD's).

 

I hope none of this comes off as judgmental or something- just trying to explain my view! 

 

 

[DragonFaerie]

Your 9th grade layout is pretty much identical to what my DD's 8th grade schedule was, and even she took advanced physical science that year  (it was noted somewhere that the science you have is not rigorous, which is why I mentioned DD's).

 

I hope none of this comes off as judgmental or something- just trying to explain my view! 

 

 

Not at all.  This is exactly what I needed to know.  DD is capable of doing high school-level work.  It sounds like I have not planned appropriately, though.  So, if what I have lined up is more akin to 8th grade, I need some help/suggestions on what to do to make it high school-level.  The problem is not with her ability.  It seems there is a problem with my curriculum choices.

 

[Emmie]

 

Not at all.  This is exactly what I needed to know.  DD is capable of doing high school-level work.  It sounds like I have not planned appropriately, though.  So, if what I have lined up is more akin to 8th grade, I need some help/suggestions on what to do to make it high school-level.  The problem is not with her ability.  It seems there is a problem with my curriculum choices.
 

 

My recommendation would be this (I am going off of DD's course selections and what we could have done better)

 

9th grade level English. I am not sure if you are doing homeschool, online/distance school, or piecing together your own curriculum, but courses that I would use for my DD if we were planning for 9th again are either Oak Meadow, Laurel Springs, or K12 (and in that order)-- but I really like the distance learning accreditation stuff. 

 

Biology for science.. You mentioned her wanting to take some sort of astronomy or something.. I would highly recommend getting her bio as a ninth grader. It would be a grave disservice, imo, to not do that. You can use 'fun' sciences she wants as electives.

 

History should be a good world geography course. (at least that is what my DD took through Laurel Springs) I know someone mentioned that the curriculum you had chosen for one course was not 9th grade level.. If it was history that they were talking about, then I would recommend using Oak meadows curriculum (you can just buy the curriculum - you don't have to enroll)

 

Algebra 1 through whatever you want.. Only recommendation is if you use TT have her take either Algebra 1 and Geo or Algebra 1 AND 2. This is  one mistake I wish I hadn't made. (TT's are slower paced and extremely enjoyable for the student, she can handle two in one year)

 

Two electives she wants. I would highly recommend a foreign lang, honestly. I regret allowing DD to withdraw her foreign lang freshman year, and so does she. If you do do a foreign lang, just don't use powerspeak! 

 

 

[DragonFaerie]

 

 

 

My recommendation would be this (I am going off of DD's course selections and what we could have done better)

 

9th grade level English. I am not sure if you are doing homeschool, online/distance school, or piecing together your own curriculum, but courses that I would use for my DD if we were planning for 9th again are either Oak Meadow, Laurel Springs, or K12 (and in that order)-- but I really like the distance learning accreditation stuff. 

 

Biology for science.. You mentioned her wanting to take some sort of astronomy or something.. I would highly recommend getting her bio as a ninth grader. It would be a grave disservice, imo, to not do that. You can use 'fun' sciences she wants as electives.

 

History should be a good world geography course. (at least that is what my DD took through Laurel Springs) I know someone mentioned that the curriculum you had chosen for one course was not 9th grade level.. If it was history that they were talking about, then I would recommend using Oak meadows curriculum (you can just buy the curriculum - you don't have to enroll)

 

Algebra 1 through whatever you want.. Only recommendation is if you use TT have her take either Algebra 1 and Geo or Algebra 1 AND 2. This is  one mistake I wish I hadn't made. (TT's are slower paced and extremely enjoyable for the student, she can handle two in one year)

 

Two electives she wants. I would highly recommend a foreign lang, honestly. I regret allowing DD to withdraw her foreign lang freshman year, and so does she. If you do do a foreign lang, just don't use powerspeak! 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info.  Sadly, I can't afford the online/distance courses (and DD doesn't really like that style of learning anyway).  Thank you, though.

 

ETA: Posted too soon.  I think I've come to the conclusion that I need to rethink science for sure.  I think everything else is okay, though, right?

 

[Melissa B]

 

ETA: Posted too soon.  I think I've come to the conclusion that I need to rethink science for sure.  I think everything else is okay, though, right?

 

 

I would suggest doing all of Saxon Advanced math in 11th, leaving 12th grade open for Saxon calculus or dual enrollment.  

 

And I would switch the literature classes around so that you are doing World Lit while studying world history and American Lit while studying American History. (But that is just personal preference.)

[Emmie]

 

I would suggest doing all of Saxon Advanced math in 11th, leaving 12th grade open for Saxon calculus or dual enrollment.  

 

And I would switch the literature classes around so that you are doing World Lit while studying world history and American Lit while studying American History. (But that is just personal preference.)

 

 

I agree... DD is taking American history and lit this year, and likes that occasionally one course will mention something she had already learned in the other. ;) She also took world lit and world history together- she doesn't specifically remember the topics overlapping, though. 

 

 

[DragonFaerie]

I would suggest doing all of Saxon Advanced math in 11th, leaving 12th grade open for Saxon calculus or dual enrollment.  

 

And I would switch the literature classes around so that you are doing World Lit while studying world history and American Lit while studying American History. (But that is just personal preference.)

 

 

Thank you!  That's a great idea about the literature.  And I agree about the math, too.  When I copied those notes from Saxon, I forgot that we always do math over the summer.  Thus, we won't need to repeat those lessons. We'll just work straight through.