High School Credit Hours

[Reefgazer]

A question from someone who's child is not yet in high school but is thinking about homeschooling high school:

 

A high school credit hour seems to be between 120-180 hours, depending on who I ask.  So, does this mean 180 total hours of work on that subject, or does this mean 180 hours of independent work by the student, above and beyond teacher lecture or video hours? 

 

[regentrude]

total work hours including everything

[creekland]

I wouldn't get too worried about it.  At our high school kids are supposed to spend 90 days in a class with about 75 minutes per day.  It takes a few minutes to get them started.  They tend to pack up a few minutes before it's over.  Some days there are subs where nothing truly educational is going on.  Some days they miss class for testing days or other "schedule change" days.  Some days kids are sick or traveling.

 

For my guys, we went with a text for most classes (text as a spine anyway).  When they finished what the text covered (and rabbit trails we tossed in), they were done and we called it a credit.  We ALWAYS ended up with more than the ps I work at.  We counted days as we went along to get 180, but I never worried about the specifics for each individual class.  A few classes were finished before the end of the school year.  Some went into summer.  I didn't sweat either.

 

So far, my homeschooled two have done very well in college, so I think we did ok.  ;)

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I was a sub teacher a few years back. I would sub sometimes for teacher's aides and got to sit in the back and help, or grade, or work one on one, etc. I saw first hand how many minutes out of a class time was actually spent on academics.  Depending on the class... usually about 30 minutes out of 50.. was spent "really learning."

 

 

[angela in ohio]

Traditionally, that means in-class time, so it would be 120-180 hours of instructional time not including independent "homework" by the student.

 

Because of the nature of homeschooling, though, it is not usually necessary to spend that much time to complete the same work. There is an efficiency to having one student and integrating the in and out of class work.

 

I usually tried to compare material covered rather than hours spent in order to get an honest assessment of credits earned. This is easiest with a textbook-based class, of course, but you can also find examples of the amount of work covered in a good English literature course, for example.

[EndOfOrdinary]

You might also want to check your state guidelines. In Washington there is a required number of days as well as hours. I have to verify I schooled for 180 days at a minimum of four hours a day. This becomes important if for any reason your student needs to transfer into public school.

 

As high school teachers, my husband and I have both seen numerous students lose full years of school for not having adequate hourly/yearly numbers. It is not about a portfolio or test scores in our state. It is 100 percent about hourly and daily tick marks for credits. It is painful for us, because it is so obvious that homeschooling mom was educating her kid. Doesn't matter according to the OSPI.

[creekland]

You might also want to check your state guidelines. In Washington there is a required number of days as well as hours. I have to verify I schooled for 180 days at a minimum of four hours a day. This becomes important if for any reason your student needs to transfer into public school.

 

As high school teachers, my husband and I have both seen numerous students lose full years of school for not having adequate hourly/yearly numbers. It is not about a portfolio or test scores in our state. It is 100 percent about hourly and daily tick marks for credits. It is painful for us, because it is so obvious that homeschooling mom was educating her kid. Doesn't matter according to the OSPI.

 

In cases like this, I'd have no problem fudging the numbers and even adding my signature to it.  To me, education happens in pretty much all aspects of life, so asserting that at least 4 hours for 180 days happened - no problem!

 

We had to keep track of days too.  My guys each had a calendar in their portfolio where they numbered (school) days.  It worked for "proof."  That numbered day might have been one of our field trip days or a sick day or whatever.  Most, of course, WERE school days or we'd have never finished our curricula.

 

IRL - in ps - there are 180 student days most years.  However, the number of students going to school all 180 days with no sick/travel/other days is very slim.  This year our kids aren't even going 180 days due to snow days - and a couple of those make up days we do have are merely party days.  A couple of the normal days each year are party or movie days.

 

So, for me, even when the state requires signed documentation, I'll make it up and sign it, but the internal "proof" of an adequate year comes from finishing each course - regardless of whether that actually takes 150/180/210 days.

 

The "law" doesn't always make sense and it's not in my character to follow something that doesn't make sense.  I'll "do" it on paper to avoid trouble, but IRL I'll do what makes sense for real.

 

[Rebel Yell]

A question from someone who's child is not yet in high school but is thinking about homeschooling high school:

 

A high school credit hour seems to be between 120-180 hours, depending on who I ask.  So, does this mean 180 total hours of work on that subject, or does this mean 180 hours of independent work by the student, above and beyond teacher lecture or video hours? 

 

 

 

120 hours, total- some courses may take less time (a student independently whizzing through a math book that is intended as a 1-credit course) and others may take far longer- an English course with a slow reader of several long books and slow writier with several research papers.

 

First, see what, if any, guidelines your state laws have.  My state (PA) does not specify anythign regarding "credits."

 

For us, a 1-credit course received 1 credit whether it was completed in 3 months or 3 years. For non-textbook based classes I did a rough estimate of hours, but also basd the credit on the class being worth 1 credit, regardless of how much time was actually spent on the class itself.

 

And ask around- are there REALLY homeschool nit-pickers who need to verify every minute of the 120 (or 180) hours was spent in approved educational credit-worthy rigorous scholarly activity?  Are colleges going to want to see your detailed timesheet of carefully documented nanoseconds? Do YOU want to spend time counting minutes or would your time be better spent facilitating their education? I do not personally know anyone who has had anyone question their time spent on credits (other than curious "How do we do this?" from other homeschoolers) and I live in a very large homeschool area.

 

Good luck with high school!

[mschickie]

In NYS a "unit" (which is a credit) is 108 hours of instructions.  With homeschoolers that can include self instruction because many high schoolers are really independent study students.  That would mean all of their work is included in their hours. You can also include time spent on educational field trips or videos that enhance the instruction.   Now some colleges want Carnegie credits which would be 120 hours so we always aimed for that.

[Reefgazer]

Thanks!  This makes sense to me.  I was kind of asking for credit hour guidelines so that I had some idea what expectations were and the degree of depth I needed to shoot for.  But I don't expect I'll have to verify every minute, either.

120 hours, total- some courses may take less time (a student independently whizzing through a math book that is intended as a 1-credit course) and others may take far longer- an English course with a slow reader of several long books and slow writier with several research papers.

 

First, see what, if any, guidelines your state laws have.  My state (PA) does not specify anythign regarding "credits."

 

For us, a 1-credit course received 1 credit whether it was completed in 3 months or 3 years. For non-textbook based classes I did a rough estimate of hours, but also basd the credit on the class being worth 1 credit, regardless of how much time was actually spent on the class itself.

 

And ask around- are there REALLY homeschool nit-pickers who need to verify every minute of the 120 (or 180) hours was spent in approved educational credit-worthy rigorous scholarly activity?  Are colleges going to want to see your detailed timesheet of carefully documented nanoseconds? Do YOU want to spend time counting minutes or would your time be better spent facilitating their education? I do not personally know anyone who has had anyone question their time spent on credits (other than curious "How do we do this?" from other homeschoolers) and I live in a very large homeschool area.

 

Good luck with high school!

 

[Reefgazer]

Thanks!  I didn't know there was a difference between a "credit" and a "Carnegie credit".

In NYS a "unit" (which is a credit) is 108 hours of instructions.  With homeschoolers that can include self instruction because many high schoolers are really independent study students.  That would mean all of their work is included in their hours. You can also include time spent on educational field trips or videos that enhance the instruction.   Now some colleges want Carnegie credits which would be 120 hours so we always aimed for that.

 

[hcrocker]

mschickie, I'm so glad you posted this! I am weighing whether DD will homeschool for 9th grade next year, and assumed it was 180 hours of instruction per credit. I've been unsure in part because DD is pretty laid back and I'd have to really ride her to get 180 hours per subject. That said, I think I'll aim for Carnegie credits as a guide. Did you actually keep track of hours for your kids?

[EKS]

You might also want to check your state guidelines. In Washington there is a required number of days as well as hours. I have to verify I schooled for 180 days at a minimum of four hours a day. This becomes important if for any reason your student needs to transfer into public school.

 

As high school teachers, my husband and I have both seen numerous students lose full years of school for not having adequate hourly/yearly numbers. It is not about a portfolio or test scores in our state. It is 100 percent about hourly and daily tick marks for credits. It is painful for us, because it is so obvious that homeschooling mom was educating her kid. Doesn't matter according to the OSPI.

 

Could you point me to a link that addresses this?

 

 

[Rebel Yell]

Rebel Yell, on 14 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

120 hours, total- some courses may take less time (a student independently whizzing through a math book that is intended as a 1-credit course) and others may take far longer- an English course with a slow reader of several long books and slow writier with several research papers.

 

First, see what, if any, guidelines your state laws have.  My state (PA) does not specify anythign regarding "credits."

 

For us, a 1-credit course received 1 credit whether it was completed in 3 months or 3 years. For non-textbook based classes I did a rough estimate of hours, but also basd the credit on the class being worth 1 credit, regardless of how much time was actually spent on the class itself.

 

And ask around- are there REALLY homeschool nit-pickers who need to verify every minute of the 120 (or 180) hours was spent in approved educational credit-worthy rigorous scholarly activity?  Are colleges going to want to see your detailed timesheet of carefully documented nanoseconds? Do YOU want to spend time counting minutes or would your time be better spent facilitating their education? I do not personally know anyone who has had anyone question their time spent on credits (other than curious "How do we do this?" from other homeschoolers) and I live in a very large homeschool area.

 

Good luck with high school!

Thanks!  This makes sense to me.  I was kind of asking for credit hour guidelines so that I had some idea what expectations were and the degree of depth I needed to shoot for.  But I don't expect I'll have to verify every minute, either.

 

You're welcome!  Since laws in my state are vague- even though there are a lot of them (laws) I'm used to people over-doing it with the 'proof' and record-keeping. I try to let people know it isn;t necessary, but not everyone believes me. :huh:
 

[EndOfOrdinary]

Could you point me to a link that addresses this?

There are two different places. The homeschooling laws on the WHO website list the laws that directly apply to homeschooling.

 

http://www.washhomeschool.org/homeschooling/law.html

 

The second to last paragraph on these laws is: "RCW 28A.200.020 states that parents who are causing their children to receive home-based instruction shall be subject only to those minimum state laws and regulations which are necessary in ensuring that a sufficient basic educational opportunity is provided to the children receiving such instruction. Therefore, all decisions relating to philosophy or doctrine, selection of books, teaching materials and curriculum, and methods, timing and place in the provision or evaluation of home-based instruction shall be the responsibility of the parent except for matters specifically referred to in Chapter 28A.225 RCW."

 

This link references those parental responsibilities as an independent school district provider to show "minimum laws and regulations necessary in ensuring sufficient basic educational opportunities". As a homeschooler you are required to demonstrate the exact same instruction as an independent school district or private school. That is how you are seen in Washington State.

 

The link is here. Listed under "how many days are in a school year" and "How many hours of instruction."

https://www.k12.wa.us/ProfPractices/adminresources/faq.aspx

 

These are the guidelines a public school is automatically required to use in granting credits. There is absolutely no wiggle room with the state. If your child never enters public school, no biggie. It they want to transfer in, this is the documentation necessary for credits to be awarded. A transcript from a parent will rarely work without them because it is the school district is on the line in the case of an audit. Test score will only show grade level, not credits received. This is where the term "junior with freshman status" comes from. Age and grade level are a junior in school, credits are of that of a freshman. It happens a lot. I do not know of other states, as I have only worked in Washington.

[EKS]

There are two different places. The homeschooling laws on the WHO website list the laws that directly apply to homeschooling.

 

So there are actually public schools in Washington that will grant credit for high school homeschool coursework?  I always thought that if we were to go this route, instead of the high school granting credit for my courses and giving my student a diploma, it would be me granting credit for their courses and giving him a homeschool diploma.

 

Our high school here (in WA) will absolutely not give credit for any coursework taken anywhere other than an accredited b&m school.  The only online courses they will give credit for are those taken through a university (like BYU).

[Lori D.]

Sounds like you have this all resolved, but I'll just throw in my 2 cents worth. ;) Here are the methods I see most people use to determine high school credits:

 

1. Completion of standard textbook (or online class) = 1 credit

(Allows for students who need more time than a standard year to work at one, and those who need less time to not be "penalized" by piling on more work. Not a perfect method, as textbooks do vary in amount of material and rigor. Also, not all texts fit a 36-week school year. So, adapting may be necessary.)

 

(Example: the textbook has 42 chapters, so pick those most important to cover in the time you have. Another example: your student is flying through their math or science text and is done with 12 weeks to go -- use that 12 weeks for an additional "unit study" AND realize that it is time to change to a more rigorous program next year to meet the student's advanced level of work.)

 

 

2. Completion of dual enrollment course -- depending on the course = 1 credit

(Again, not a perfect method, as rigor and quality vary widely; I personally count 3-unit college dual enrollment classes as only 0.5 high school credit, unless the rigor and time spent brings it up in comparison to a 1.0 credit high school course.)

 

 

3. Hours = 1 credit

120 hours = minimum (Carnegie credit*)

180 hours = maximum (traditional school model**)

 

With the extremes as 120-180 hours, that makes 150 hours a nice, solid amount of time spent for 1.0 credit (and so, 75 hours = 0.5 credit). Again, there will be some variation, as English (reading) and Science (labs) tend to take a bit more time, and "checkbox" courses such as Economics, Health, Government often take less time.

 

When using the hours method for counting credits:

- be fair (don't make your student do 200 hours of work and only count it as 1 credit)

- be consistent (as much as possible, have all classes roughly match up to what you decide on for # of hours = 1 credit)

- you can accumulate hours over more that 1 year to eventually add up to 1 credit

- beware of padding (counting a very small amount of hours as 1 credit) -- it can call the transcript and the student's accomplishments into question

 

* = Carnegie credit is defined as 120 hours classroom contact, with additional outside class work assumed.

** = traditional school model credit is based on 1 hour day x 180 days; however, classes are really only about 50 minutes long, and even less of that time has actual instruction/learning -- BUT, homework brings that back up again to an average of 1 hour/day.

 

 

Here's a past thread with even more info: "High school credit hours -- please explain". Also, check out the pinned thread at the top of the high school board for more past thraeds on various aspects of counting credits: "Transcripts, Credits, Grading/GPA … past threads linked here!"

 

Best of luck as you start wearing your high school administrator hat! :)  (Here's mine ----> :hat: ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[EndOfOrdinary]

So there are actually public schools in Washington that will grant credit for high school homeschool coursework? I always thought that if we were to go this route, instead of the high school granting credit for my courses and giving my student a diploma, it would be me granting credit for their courses and giving him a homeschool diploma.

 

Our high school here (in WA) will absolutely not give credit for any coursework taken anywhere other than an accredited b&m school. The only online courses they will give credit for are those taken through a university (like BYU).

I was referring to what happens when a student transfers into public school; when the parents relinquish homeschooling over to the public school. A school in Washington state is legally required to review the credits established by the parents. A homeschool is governed the same way as a private, independent school district. However, the parents have to keep official records in the appropriate way.

 

Situations I have seen are similar to Mom gets cancer and dad cannot handle hospice and homeschool. Johnny's dyslexia needs help which requires far greater resources than Mom can handle, so he goes to public school. Mom and Dad have a nasty divorce and public school is mandated by the state (happened A LOT!). If I get hit by a Mack truck in the parking lot today, my husband would have to scramble to figure out what to do with Ds. Public school would be his first resort. In these sorts of instances no one expected the student to ever do anything but homeschool, but for whatever reason, the student was having to enroll in public high school.

 

The record keeping can easily slip by or pile up to be overwhelming if put off. A little bit each week can save the situation if the unforeseen happens. Having seen the ugly side of a states very open homeschooling laws, I like to make parents aware. When you need it, you REALLY need it.

[mschickie]

As for keeping track of hours, I would give sd an assignment sheet each week.  On it was a spot for her to put her daily hours.  She had a separate sheet where she would put the total number of hours for the week per subject.  In NYS we need to turn in quarterly reports so at the end of the quarter she would give me the sheet and I could add up the hours for that quarter.  It worked well for us most of the time.  Sometimes I needed to adjust because she forgot about a relevant field trip or other activity.

[Lolly]

I just go by the class and how much credit would typically be rewarded for it in high school. I have one dd who will finish a traditional class in less than half the time it takes another dd. Credit based on hours in homeschooling makes no sense to me. In a traditional school, they are going by how much time it would take a typical student. We have no way to measure that. 

[creekland]

So there are actually public schools in Washington that will grant credit for high school homeschool coursework?  I always thought that if we were to go this route, instead of the high school granting credit for my courses and giving my student a diploma, it would be me granting credit for their courses and giving him a homeschool diploma.

 

Our high school here (in WA) will absolutely not give credit for any coursework taken anywhere other than an accredited b&m school.  The only online courses they will give credit for are those taken through a university (like BYU).

 

We're in PA and the school district I work for will not give ANY credit for homeschooled courses even though we do a portfolio and evaluation annually.  Parents who sign up 9th graders for homeschooling are warned about this. 

 

I've heard that other districts are more lenient and will allow students to test out of subjects for credit.  It could be a school by school thing.

 

If an emergency had come up and we NEEDED a B&M school after 9th grade, we'd have had to go private - or move.  It wouldn't have even mattered that my junior had top of the top stats (ACT) and some AP 5s.  They would have given DE credit for his cc classes, but that's it.  Actually, by junior year he was getting enough college mail that we might have just gone the 4 year college route if we had needed something for senior year.

 

It's crazy IMO, but they do warn folks ahead of time.

[EKS]

I was referring to what happens when a student transfers into public school; when the parents relinquish homeschooling over to the public school. A school in Washington state is legally required to review the credits established by the parents. A homeschool is governed the same way as a private, independent school district. However, the parents have to keep official records in the appropriate way.

 

Situations I have seen are similar to Mom gets cancer and dad cannot handle hospice and homeschool. Johnny's dyslexia needs help which requires far greater resources than Mom can handle, so he goes to public school. Mom and Dad have a nasty divorce and public school is mandated by the state (happened A LOT!). If I get hit by a Mack truck in the parking lot today, my husband would have to scramble to figure out what to do with Ds. Public school would be his first resort. In these sorts of instances no one expected the student to ever do anything but homeschool, but for whatever reason, the student was having to enroll in public high school.

 

The record keeping can easily slip by or pile up to be overwhelming if put off. A little bit each week can save the situation if the unforeseen happens. Having seen the ugly side of a states very open homeschooling laws, I like to make parents aware. When you need it, you REALLY need it.

 

I'm well aware that there are circumstances where a kid may need to abruptly enter the public school system.  But my point was that, at least in our district, I'm pretty certain that no amount of documentation would be enough for them to grant high school credit for work done in a homeschool setting.  I am surprised (and intrigued) that you've seen otherwise.

 

I do know that in WA, students can request a high school diploma be granted with an associate's degree by the community colleges.  There is also some way to only get a high school diploma through the CCs.

[Reefgazer]

This NYS detail is also relevant to me because we may be moving to NYS in a few years.  I grew up there and we bought a home there about 15 years ago and never sold it when we moved to Virginia; we use it as a crash pad when we're up there visiting.  I am sort of fearful of moving back there and trying to homeschool because of NYS's meddling in homeschoolers going to college.  OTOH, I can't very well turn my kid over to the education department in that state, LOL!

As for keeping track of hours, I would give sd an assignment sheet each week.  On it was a spot for her to put her daily hours.  She had a separate sheet where she would put the total number of hours for the week per subject.  In NYS we need to turn in quarterly reports so at the end of the quarter she would give me the sheet and I could add up the hours for that quarter.  It worked well for us most of the time.  Sometimes I needed to adjust because she forgot about a relevant field trip or other activity.

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

I'm well aware that there are circumstances where a kid may need to abruptly enter the public school system. But my point was that, at least in our district, I'm pretty certain that no amount of documentation would be enough for them to grant high school credit for work done in a homeschool setting. I am surprised (and intrigued) that you've seen otherwise.

 

I do know that in WA, students can request a high school diploma be granted with an associate's degree by the community colleges. There is also some way to only get a high school diploma through the CCs.

Every district I have worked at in Washington has granted credit. It was even part if my job to evaluate such credits. All of ESD 112 does. All of ESD 114 does. Some require remediation courses or end of course exams, but I've never worked in a district which did not grant credit as long as proper, legal documentation was presented.

[EKS]

Wow.  What exactly did you need to see to grant credit?

[mschickie]

This NYS detail is also relevant to me because we may be moving to NYS in a few years.  I grew up there and we bought a home there about 15 years ago and never sold it when we moved to Virginia; we use it as a crash pad when we're up there visiting.  I am sort of fearful of moving back there and trying to homeschool because of NYS's meddling in homeschoolers going to college.  OTOH, I can't very well turn my kid over to the education department in that state, LOL!

 

 

NYS really is not as bad as it looks.  I have never met a homeschool child who had an issue getting into college around here.  

[EndOfOrdinary]

Wow. What exactly did you need to see to grant credit?

There had to be an attendance sheet which logged 180 days and the hours for each credit totaling four hours a day of total schooling and specifically broken down into subjects. This is state required. This was the big one. Without this, there was no need to proceed.

 

The annual third party test results or portfolio assessments from teachers were next. I do not know if you legally have to provide these, but the districts always asked for them. It was one of those things they used to deny credits.

 

A scope and sequence for each subject with a syllabus explaining grading criteria and any rubrics used. Those would then have specific learning goals which were either EALRed, GLEed, or now Common Cored with PowerStandards (whatever the current buzzword was). This was mainly to lend credibility to the parent. The syllabus was lined up to whatever the school normally granted credit for to see how much the classes aligned. They never completely aligned, but a standard American Lit course has a general guideline. Same with Algebra 1, etc.

 

A sample of work with tests and a print out of the grading sheet showing how the final grade was tabulated for each class. This would provide a basis for what an A, B, C etc were from the parent in the homeschool. Many courses are subjective this way. The grade print out stumped a lot of parents as well. Many went by feel of where their students were, but the district wants hard numbers. It would also show how much writing and essay work there was. For some reason this was one thing most of my homeschool transfers never put in the portfolios and made the district nervous. The whole essay process from outline to draft to final seemed to never be included, but was always really desired. It was important to see how much help and revision were required.

 

Any third party courses which could validate parental information were always helpful.

 

Depending on how well the syllabus lined up and the level of rigor for the course, the student would get either elective credit or core credit. Sometimes specific department heads would want to see evidence. This happened if the student was going into any class that wasn't standard. If you had a seventh grader going into Geometry or something. Normally those kids had to take a final from the previous level to show competence before credit would be awarded. Most kids has to take the end of course exams required by the state, though the HSPE is over now. Some teachers were really great and if there was one or two assignments which could be provided to allow credit, they would create an independent contract to help the kid fill in the gaps (like one more novel for ninth grade English credit) . Some teachers were total Nazis and fought everything.

 

The best places to get into a district were the alternative schools and programs. Theses were the main places I worked. Once you get a transfer and credit evaluation, it is never considered again. So the student spends one year in the alternative program and the can transfer to the standard high school. The district had already accepted credits, so the standard high school just gets a transcript and never even wonders about homeschooling. That happened a lot. Guidance counselors would send many kids to me for this very reason. I'd review, send my recommendations to the department heads or the principal, the kid would spend a few months or the whole year with us and then transfer. It was in the door.

[EKS]

There had to be an attendance sheet which logged 180 days and the hours for each credit totaling four hours a day of total schooling and specifically broken down into subjects. This is state required. This was the big one. Without this, there was no need to proceed.

 

The annual third party test results or portfolio assessments from teachers were next. I do not know if you legally have to provide these, but the districts always asked for them. It was one of those things they used to deny credits.

 

A scope and sequence for each subject with a syllabus explaining grading criteria and any rubrics used. Those would then have specific learning goals which were either EALRed, GLEed, or now Common Cored with PowerStandards (whatever the current buzzword was). This was mainly to lend credibility to the parent. The syllabus was lined up to whatever the school normally granted credit for to see how much the classes aligned. They never completely aligned, but a standard American Lit course has a general guideline. Same with Algebra 1, etc.

 

A sample of work with tests and a print out of the grading sheet showing how the final grade was tabulated for each class. This would provide a basis for what an A, B, C etc were from the parent in the homeschool. Many courses are subjective this way. The grade print out stumped a lot of parents as well. Many went by feel of where their students were, but the district wants hard numbers. It would also show how much writing and essay work there was. For some reason this was one thing most of my homeschool transfers never put in the portfolios and made the district nervous. The whole essay process from outline to draft to final seemed to never be included, but was always really desired. It was important to see how much help and revision were required.

 

Any third party courses which could validate parental information were always helpful.

 

Depending on how well the syllabus lined up and the level of rigor for the course, the student would get either elective credit or core credit. Sometimes specific department heads would want to see evidence. This happened if the student was going into any class that wasn't standard. If you had a seventh grader going into Geometry or something. Normally those kids had to take a final from the previous level to show competence before credit would be awarded. Most kids has to take the end of course exams required by the state, though the HSPE is over now. Some teachers were really great and if there was one or two assignments which could be provided to allow credit, they would create an independent contract to help the kid fill in the gaps (like one more novel for ninth grade English credit) . Some teachers were total Nazis and fought everything.

 

The best places to get into a district were the alternative schools and programs. Theses were the main places I worked. Once you get a transfer and credit evaluation, it is never considered again. So the student spends one year in the alternative program and the can transfer to the standard high school. The district had already accepted credits, so the standard high school just gets a transcript and never even wonders about homeschooling. That happened a lot. Guidance counselors would send many kids to me for this very reason. I'd review, send my recommendations to the department heads or the principal, the kid would spend a few months or the whole year with us and then transfer. It was in the door.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this up!  It is weird, though, that the document deemed most important (the attendance log) is the one that would be the easiest to fake.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this up!  It is weird, though, that the document deemed most important (the attendance log) is the one that would be the easiest to fake.

 

 I know, right!  It is the weirdest thing in the world that I wasn't even allowed to care about what the parents provided, or what the kids knew, or how the interview went, unless they had an attendance sheet.  I realize the importance of standards, but it has always seemed rather screwed up to me too.

[creekland]

 I know, right!  It is the weirdest thing in the world that I wasn't even allowed to care about what the parents provided, or what the kids knew, or how the interview went, unless they had an attendance sheet.  I realize the importance of standards, but it has always seemed rather screwed up to me too.

 

In my ideal world, any student wanting to head into ps ought to be allowed to take the same final the ps students take (assuming a cumulative final - if not - then sample tests along the way, or papers for English).  If they pass, they get credit.  It really shouldn't matter where/how the knowledge was obtained.

 

[katilac]

 

2. Completion of dual enrollment course -- depending on the course = 1 credit

(Again, not a perfect method, as rigor and quality vary widely; I personally count 3-unit college dual enrollment classes as only 0.5 high school credit, unless the rigor and time spent brings it up in comparison to a 1.0 credit high school course.)

 

 

Wow, really? I would think a college course would have to suck pretty hard to not equal a full high school credit. It would really make me think that I didn't want them dual enrolled at that college, period! 

[regentrude]

Wow, really? I would think a college course would have to suck pretty hard to not equal a full high school credit. It would really make me think that I didn't want them dual enrolled at that college, period! 

 

You might want to rethink your harsh judgement. This has nothing to do with "suck".

 

The intro science courses for non majors do not assume any previous knowledge of the subject and start from the very beginning; whether the student takes the course as an 11th grader in high school or as a sophomore in college makes no difference.

An algebra based college physics course, for example, is designed to cover mechanics and e&m in a two semester sequence - and that would be the equivalent to the material covered at a comparable level in an algebra based one year long high school physics course. Most of the students who are taking such a course in college never had any prior physics, so the course can't assume any previous knowledge. So, yes, one semester of the college course would only be equivalent to half a high school course, because only half the material of the high school course has been learned, at a comparable level. Chemistry is similar; an intro chemistry course for non majors is completed over two semesters and will then cover the same material as a rigorous high school chemistry course.

 

I give my kids 0.5 high school credits for a 3 hour intro science college course for non majors.

Now, a 3 hour 300 level literature course that requires the student to put in 200 hours of work per semester with copious amounts of writing assignments is definitely worth a full high school credit. As is one semester of a 4 hour calculus based physics course for majors that goes way more in depth than a high school class and where the minimum effort are 120+ hours of outside work for 60 hours of class.

 

[katilac]

You might want to rethink your harsh judgement. This has nothing to do with "suck".

 

The intro science courses for non majors do not assume any previous knowledge of the subject and start from the very beginning; whether the student takes the course as an 11th grader in high school or as a sophomore in college makes no difference.

An algebra based college physics course, for example, is designed to cover mechanics and e&m in a two semester sequence - and that would be the equivalent to the material covered at a comparable level in an algebra based one year long high school physics course. Most of the students who are taking such a course in college never had any prior physics, so the course can't assume any previous knowledge. So, yes, one semester of the college course would only be equivalent to half a high school course, because only half the material of the high school course has been learned, at a comparable level. Chemistry is similar; an intro chemistry course for non majors is completed over two semesters and will then cover the same material as a rigorous high school chemistry course.

 

I give my kids 0.5 high school credits for a 3 hour intro science college course for non majors.

Now, a 3 hour 300 level literature course that requires the student to put in 200 hours of work per semester with copious amounts of writing assignments is definitely worth a full high school credit. As is one semester of a 4 hour calculus based physics course for majors that goes way more in depth than a high school class and where the minimum effort are 120+ hours of outside work for 60 hours of class.

 

Thanks for the explanation - and sorry to all of the college courses whose feelings I have hurt  :tongue_smilie:

I thought one college semester equalling two high school semesters was fairly standard - my college didn't have the two semester sequence for non-majors, but I can certainly see how I might have preferred it! The hours seem to work out fairly well as far as high school credits go, too: 3 hours in class per week, add just 1-2 hours work per class times 18 weeks, and you have 108 to 162 hours. That might be light for a rigorous course, but I'd be hesitant to call it a half-credit as well. 

 

So, you would have to take both semesters in college to fill a science requirement, yes? 

[regentrude]

So, you would have to take both semesters in college to fill a science requirement, yes? 

Yes.

I do not believe it would be possible to cover the entire content in one semester of a 3 hour course for students without a strong prerequisite. OK, "cover" yes, but the students would not be able to master the material at that speed.

[Lori D.]

… I thought one college semester equalling two high school semesters was fairly standard … 

… The hours seem to work out fairly well as far as high school credits go, too: 3 hours in class per week, add just 1-2 hours work per class times 18 weeks, and you have 108 to 162 hours. That might be light for a rigorous course, but I'd be hesitant to call it a half-credit as well. 

 

The college semesters in our area are 15 weeks + 1 week for finals, not 18 weeks. So, here, a total of 3 hr/wk (in class) + 3-4 hr/wk (outside class) x 15 = 90-105 (+ 1-2 hr for the final). 

 

In our homeschool, we shoot for an average of 150 hr = 1 high school credit (and more like 180 hr when looking at English (reading & writing take longer) or Science (labs take longer). So that 90-105 hours of work comes out to 0.5 to 0.66 credit for our homeschool in credit hours, depending on the course. YMMV.

 

I also take into consideration the volume of work and how rigorous the material was, and of the 3-unit courses DSs have taken, no, the volume & rigor of work would not have bumped that into a full credit. A final consideration is that I don't want our transcripts to have the slightest hint of "padding", so I'd rather go over a little on hours in awarding credit, than under. Just what makes me feel safer. ;)

 

Again: this is the individual homeschooling family's decision, due to the wide variance between the schools and the courses they offer, and what the homeschooling parent's structure, standards and requirements are. Definitely YMMV. :)

[angela in ohio]

I usually split college credit at 1-3 credits equals 0.5 HS credit, and 4-5 equals 1.0 HS credit. I would be willing to adjust if I thought the content of the course was off. In reality, this means that the DE math courses (Calc I, Calc II, etc.) and lab sciences get 1 full credit and pretty much everything else gets 0.5.

[creekland]

I always gave 1 credit for cc courses.  Our high school is on block scheduling and gives one credit for each semester course (and no course goes a full year other than some math/English classes for the non college bound).  While our cc is not at all at a high level (college-wise), it still matches or beats our high school (which, by all academic measures, is "average"), so I see no need to slight cc credits.

[Kareni]

 

So, you would have to take both semesters in college to fill a science requirement, yes? 

 

A similar situation can be seen with math. 

 

Amongst the first classes my daughter took at the local community college were College Algebra (a five hour class) and Trigonometry (a four hour class). She did these two classes in consecutive quarters as our community college is on the quarter rather than semester system. Had she taken a year long class in Precalculus at home or at the local high school, she would have earned one high school credit. Since the combination of College Algebra and Trigonometry is considered Precalculus (and in fact the text used in both of these classes was Sullivan's Precalculus), I assigned each of these classes one half high school credit. To me, it would have seemed too generous to give two credits for this combination of classes. On her transcript, I included a note that each community college class of three hours or more was assigned a value of one half high school credit.

 

That said, the local state university would have given one high school credit for each course (which seemed way too generous to me!)

 

Regards,

Kareni