Expat-ing it in Germany

[AimeeM]

My husband begins a new position at his company next month. With it comes the possibility of being offered the option to work in Germany (their main area) for several years.

The company pays for the children to attend international schools. While right now it's just a passing thought, I looked into several of the international schools in Germany, and my main concern - most of them only offer special services for special needs in a VERY limited capacity, and only for mild learning disabilities (at least the ones I could find - which were only two?). My eldest is dyslexic. I know homeschooling is illegal there, but is there ever an exception for things like this? Would my husband have to turn down the opportunity, should it arise, because of this?

[ondreeuh]

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany, but maybe you could educate at home under the supervision of a teacher or something? Hopefully Regentrude will know.

 

My husband could potentially take a job overseas, but it would be with the military. My understanding that you are allowed to homeschool overseas if you are under working for the DoD.

 

Ok, this site has a little info: http://www.stuttgarthomeschoolers.com/Legal.html

 

"If you are Americans here for legitimate civilian work on a temporary basis, home schooling during your stay is possible. We have had several families in this situation during the past few years and they chose one or both of the following options. The first was to just begin quietly home schooling and plan to explain it if confronted. This option has worked in all cases we know of but in more and more cases families are being called on to explain themselves which leads to the second option. The second approach is to write a letter or visit with the local school officials, explaining that you are here for only X years, and that you don’t want your children to fall behind in their English-speaking education. Families choosing this option gave the authorities a brief explanation of their course of study along with the assurance that this is a normal and legitimate educational choice for U.S. Citizens. Many also showed the officials evidence of the laws governing them in their home state and proof of the manner in which they would continue to comply with those laws while in Germany. No one we know of has had any problem with this approach either.

 

You can expect to be questioned by neighbors and German friends about why your children are not attending school. Most will accept that your child is studying at home since you are only here temporarily; and don’t want your children to fall behind. However, for the most part Germans do not understand the concept of ongoing home schooling at all, so keeping a low profile regarding your heart-for-home schooling sentiments will probably save unnecessary scrutiny. "

[AimeeM]

Okay, so it looks more possible than I thought it would. I wouldn't have a problem with the boys attending the international schools, and I'm not sure, given that there are several english speaking international schools, that I could use the excuse of not wanting them to fall behind in their english studies.

This is an interesting article for me, because I had heard that, temporary expat or not, it was illegal. My husband isn't military, so he wouldn't be working for the DoD.

Thanks!

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany, but maybe you could educate at home under the supervision of a teacher or something? Hopefully Regentrude will know.

 

My husband could potentially take a job overseas, but it would be with the military. My understanding that you are allowed to homeschool overseas if you are under working for the DoD.

 

Ok, this site has a little info: http://www.stuttgarthomeschoolers.com/Legal.html

 

"If you are Americans here for legitimate civilian work on a temporary basis, home schooling during your stay is possible. We have had several families in this situation during the past few years and they chose one or both of the following options. The first was to just begin quietly home schooling and plan to explain it if confronted. This option has worked in all cases we know of but in more and more cases families are being called on to explain themselves which leads to the second option. The second approach is to write a letter or visit with the local school officials, explaining that you are here for only X years, and that you don’t want your children to fall behind in their English-speaking education. Families choosing this option gave the authorities a brief explanation of their course of study along with the assurance that this is a normal and legitimate educational choice for U.S. Citizens. Many also showed the officials evidence of the laws governing them in their home state and proof of the manner in which they would continue to comply with those laws while in Germany. No one we know of has had any problem with this approach either.

 

You can expect to be questioned by neighbors and German friends about why your children are not attending school. Most will accept that your child is studying at home since you are only here temporarily; and don’t want your children to fall behind. However, for the most part Germans do not understand the concept of ongoing home schooling at all, so keeping a low profile regarding your heart-for-home schooling sentiments will probably save unnecessary scrutiny. "

 

[Aiden]

I'm not familiar with the laws in Germany, as the rules for diplomats parallel those for military members--we do not fall under the jurisdiction of the host country when it comes to educational law; we can homeschool anywhere. But the stories I've heard from other diplomats who prefer to put their children in the private international schools all confirm that the international schools do not do well with, and are not interested in doing well with, special needs students. On average, special needs students are more expensive to educate and also have lower test scores and other measurable indications of success, so they both drive up costs for the schools and lower the statistical evidence that the school is good, making the school less attractive to other parents. As private schools, rather than public, they don't have to take that "double hit," and so they choose not to--even in cases where the special needs student would not fit the mold of costing more and doing worse.

 

 

Okay, so it looks more possible than I thought it would. I wouldn't have a problem with the boys attending the international schools, and I'm not sure, given that there are several english speaking international schools, that I could use the excuse of not wanting them to fall behind in their english studies.

This is an interesting article for me, because I had heard that, temporary expat or not, it was illegal. My husband isn't military, so he wouldn't be working for the DoD.

Thanks!

 

I would think that a combination of explanations should work well for you--"My son has some special needs that the English-speaking schools cannot accommodate, but I don't want to put him in a German school and have his English education fall behind since we'll be back in the States in just a few years. The only workable solution is for me to continue his education at home in English." That should work for legal justification. As far as neighbors or German friends go, they really don't need to know more than "The international schools didn't work for us, but he needs an English education, so we're doing it at home."

 

[Aiden]

One nice possibility--if the company pays for international schools, but your child can't go to the international schools because of the lack of services for special needs, they may be willing instead to subsidize your homeschool curriculum. If you are offered the opportunity and decide to accept it, it probably wouldn't hurt to ask your HR people if the benefit is transferable in your situation. If they don't have an explicit policy one way or the other, then it may matter whether you've been homeschooling already (as in, "we won't pay for you to continue doing what you were doing anyway, but if your kids had been in free public school, we would pay because that option was removed from you for the benefit of our company"). It (almost) never hurts to ask ... especially since homeschool curriculum is almost always MUCH less expensive than the private international schools.

[Melissa in Australia]

Ask mominhighheals, she was living and homeschooling in Germany until a few months ago

[Heather in Neverland]

Regarding international schools and special needs... Let's be careful with the sweeping generalization that these schools don't want your special needs kid around because of cost and test scores. There are other reasons.

 

For one, lack of staff. Special services teachers are in short supply everywhere and especially so internationally. Also, the transient nature of international school staff means lack of stability in the program.

 

For instance, let's say your child is autistic and applies to my school. And it just so happens that my special services department has someone who has training in providing services to autistic children. And everything is going well.

 

However, that teacher is on a 2-year contract (industry standard) and when the contract ends, she leaves. Now I have to fill a special services position, hopefully with someone who has a back ground in autism so I can continue providing services to your child.

 

But there is a shortage and the only good special services teacher I can find does not have a background in autism...his is in learning disabilities like dyslexia. So now your child, who is not dyslexic, has no one who can provide the services he needs because none of the applicants for the position had an autism background.

 

So now what do I do? Ask you to pull your child out of the school? Let you continue paying for your child to attend my school even though we cannot provide the services he needs?

 

I have to think long term. If I accept a child with special needs, I do so with the commitment that I will provide proper services to that child for as long as he is in my school and I do not make promises I can't keep. Therefore I accept children who have mild special needs because I know I can provide services for them no matter what.

 

That is more often the reason why international schools have limited special services departments. It's not for all these nefarious reasons like test scores. I'm not beholden to NCLB. It is super easy for me to withhold the test scores of certain students if I want to. If I'm so evil and uncaring then I would just take your money, give limited services to your child, then keep their test scores out of the total. Easy peasy.

 

But I have integrity so I don't take money from people for services I cannot provide.

[Cammie]

International schools here in Bangalore are much better at dealing with special needs issues than the non-international schools. I have a friend with two dyslexic sons and she is VERY happy with the Canadian School here in town.  So you need to actually get specific info on the schools you are looking at because generalizations will be of limited use in this matter I think.

[Aiden]

Regarding international schools and special needs... Let's be careful with the sweeping generalization that these schools don't want your special needs kid around because of cost and test scores. There are other reasons.

 

For one, lack of staff. Special services teachers are in short supply everywhere and especially so internationally. Also, the transient nature of international school staff means lack of stability in the program.

 

For instance, let's say your child is autistic and applies to my school. And it just so happens that my special services department has someone who has training in providing services to autistic children. And everything is going well.

 

However, that teacher is on a 2-year contract (industry standard) and when the contract ends, she leaves. Now I have to fill a special services position, hopefully with someone who has a back ground in autism so I can continue providing services to your child.

 

But there is a shortage and the only good special services teacher I can find does not have a background in autism...his is in learning disabilities like dyslexia. So now your child, who is not dyslexic, has no one who can provide the services he needs because none of the applicants for the position had an autism background.

 

So now what do I do? Ask you to pull your child out of the school? Let you continue paying for your child to attend my school even though we cannot provide the services he needs?

 

I have to think long term. If I accept a child with special needs, I do so with the commitment that I will provide proper services to that child for as long as he is in my school and I do not make promises I can't keep. Therefore I accept children who have mild special needs because I know I can provide services for them no matter what.

 

That is more often the reason why international schools have limited special services departments. It's not for all these nefarious reasons like test scores. I'm not beholden to NCLB. It is super easy for me to withhold the test scores of certain students if I want to. If I'm so evil and uncaring then I would just take your money, give limited services to your child, then keep their test scores out of the total. Easy peasy.

 

But I have integrity so I don't take money from people for services I cannot provide.

 

I apologize for generalizing too broadly--I did not intend to offend you or even to disparage these schools or their administrators.

 

My comments were based on what parents I know have been told by the schools who rejected their children. Your school rejects some special needs children for other reasons--I certainly don't object to your reasons for not accepting some children into your school, but I also did not intend to paint the other schools as "the bad guy." I respect their right, their need, and indeed their duty to do what they believe is in the best interests of their schools and the students they do accept. My intent was to explain what some parents have been told, not to demonize schools that are not set up for special needs students, that are not required to accept them, and that choose not to.

 

[Heather in Neverland]

I apologize for generalizing too broadly--I did not intend to offend you or even to disparage these schools or their administrators.

 

My comments were based on what parents I know have been told by the schools who rejected their children. Your school rejects some special needs children for other reasons--I certainly don't object to your reasons for not accepting some children into your school, but I also did not intend to paint the other schools as "the bad guy." I respect their right, their need, and indeed their duty to do what they believe is in the best interests of their schools and the students they do accept. My intent was to explain what some parents have been told, not to demonize schools that are not set up for special needs students, that are not required to accept them, and that choose not to.

 

If a staff member at an international school actually told a parent "we are not accepting your special needs child because he might drag our test scores down" then that staff member should be fired. That is reprehensible.

[Aiden]

If a staff member at an international school actually told a parent "we are not accepting your special needs child because he might drag our test scores down" then that staff member should be fired. That is reprehensible.

 

These same schools reject students whose transcripts show that they are performing below grade level. The particular schools I have in mind are considered prestigious; they are very concerned with maintaining that status. It is good to know that there are other international schools who focus more on the educational service part than the business part of their existence.

[chiguirre]

Could you look into accredited correspondence or online schools? That might not count as "homeschooling" in Germany and you might find one that would work for you. Of the top of my head, Calvert's Verticy program might work. Both Seton and Kolbe have some special ed accommodations and services and are accredited.

[Starr]

How old are your children? Why not look into the German schools?

[Amira]

I have to agree with a lot of what Aiden is saying here. When we moved here to Mexico we had the option of putting our children into an international school for the first time. But the only decent international high school here flipped out when they heard that our children had always been homeschooled and were very concerned about allowing our children to go there. There were no special needs issues, but our non-traditional students didn't fit their profile. We couldn't afford to send our children to an international school in Kyrgyzstan, but if we had been able to, those schools were significantly more flexible. I also think Christian international schools are often more flexible. But every school needs to be clear about what they can and cannot provide.

 

To the op, do your research thoroughly about the schools. There are probably quite a few different options and there may be something out there that would work for you that you don't know about yet. If are able to homeschool, do make sure to ask your employer about paying for it like Aiden suggestd. Many employers are willing to do that now because they see how much cheaper it is.

[Laura Corin]

I haven't home educated in Germany, but I have in Hong Kong and China, where HE was legally dubious.  I would go through some what-ifs in your head before deciding to fly under the radar or HE at the whim of an individual official:

 

- If permission was withdrawn, are you happy to send you child to school?

- If not, what would happen to your husband's job if you had to leave suddenly?

- If he could not leave, what would your feelings be about living separately (he in Germany, you in the UK or back home?)

 

L

[gardenmom5]

I don't know if this would apply to an international school or not, but it is food for thought . .  My niece lives there.  her dh is ukranian. both are fluent in german (it's their common language), and they have two children. 

thanksgiving is a big deal with dh's family, and she wanted to come home this last year for thanksgiving BUT, because neither she nor her dh are native german speakers, the "system" would not allow them to pull their children out of regular german school for the visit, despite the fact the children are fluent in german.  

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't just because they weren't native german speakers, but because there were not culturally german either.  (even though their employer is a german entity.)

[maize]

If a staff member at an international school actually told a parent "we are not accepting your special needs child because he might drag our test scores down" then that staff member should be fired. That is reprehensible.

Some of the more prestigious international schools are very upfront about requirements to get in, and have no trouble rejecting students they don't think will perform to their standards, just as elite private schools in the US do. These schools have limited student slots and reputations to maintain, if your student doesn't make the cut they are not admitted.

 

I recently reviewed the admittance standards of an international school I attended in Junior high. The standards were high then but they are even more stringent now, I don't think my kids would have a chance at admission.

[regentrude]

  My niece lives there.  her dh is ukranian. both are fluent in german (it's their common language), and they have two children. 

thanksgiving is a big deal with dh's family, and she wanted to come home this last year for thanksgiving BUT, because neither she nor her dh are native german speakers, the "system" would not allow them to pull their children out of regular german school for the visit, despite the fact the children are fluent in german.  

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't just because they weren't native german speakers, but because there were not culturally german either.  (even though their employer is a german entity.)

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with not being German speakers or culturally German or whether the children are fluent or not- families are not allowed to pull their children out of school for vacations during the school year. Even a German family would not have been allowed to do that. (They have school breaks roughly every six weeks throughout the year)

[Heather in Neverland]

Some of the more prestigious international schools are very upfront about requirements to get in, and have no trouble rejecting students they don't think will perform to their standards, just as elite private schools in the US do. These schools have limited student slots and reputations to maintain, if your student doesn't make the cut they are not admitted.

 

I recently reviewed the admittance standards of an international school I attended in Junior high. The standards were high then but they are even more stringent now, I don't think my kids would have a chance at admission.

I know this is true but I would expect any admissions counselor to have more professionalism than to tell a parent their child couldn't attend because they would drag the test scores down.

 

We are full and have a waiting list so admissions is a grueling process. I don't enjoy it to be honest. It feels a lot like playing God with a child's future. But it is a necessary thing and when you have 20 kids applying for one open spot you have to figure out a way to differentiate.

 

However, I would never be so cruel as to say something like that to a parent and no one on my staff would ever do that. Parents have feelings and we show compassion even when we have to say no to someone.

[AimeeM]

How old are your children? Why not look into the German schools?

 

I have no desire for them to attend the German schools, for my own reasons. My eldest is 12, middle is 5, and my youngest isn't yet school age.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be cryptic, lol. I would send my youngers to an international school, obviously, but public wouldn't an option for my 12 year old. We were advised, with good reason, to drop formal study of foreign languages with her - as a dyslexic, english is difficult enough for her, without adding in a new language; further reasons include that the stint would only be for 2-3 years, and as a struggling student (compared to neurotypical children), she would be behind when she came home (as she would be attending a private Catholic high school at home). That far into high school, it's too risky.

[AimeeM]

I haven't home educated in Germany, but I have in Hong Kong and China, where HE was legally dubious.  I would go through some what-ifs in your head before deciding to fly under the radar or HE at the whim of an individual official:

 

- If permission was withdrawn, are you happy to send you child to school?

- If not, what would happen to your husband's job if you had to leave suddenly?

- If he could not leave, what would your feelings be about living separately (he in Germany, you in the UK or back home?)

 

L

 

We couldn't just up and leave, but if the international school simply will not accept her because of her dyslexia, the company wouldn't punish him for that either (just as they do not punish the employee if he has to turn down the offer entirely, because of lack of space in the schools).

For my eldest, I wouldn't be adverse to boarding school elsewhere, provided it is in the UK and somewhat close by.

 

[gardenmom5]

they were *told* it was because they weren't native german speakers, or culturally german.  (or at least that's what her mother told me.)

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with not being German speakers or culturally German or whether the children are fluent or not- families are not allowed to pull their children out of school for vacations during the school year. Even a German family would not have been allowed to do that. (They have school breaks roughly every six weeks throughout the year)

 

[gardenmom5]

 We were advised, with good reason, to drop formal study of foreign languages with her - as a dyslexic, english is difficult enough for her, without adding in a new language; 

 

I know one dyslexic that was given the opportunity to study ASL as her foreign language.  nothing verbal/auditory, it was all manipulative with her hands.  it gave her the experience of foreign language study and my understanding was she was comfortable with it.

[AimeeM]

I know one dyslexic that was given the opportunity to study ASL as her foreign language.  nothing verbal/auditory, it was all manipulative with her hands.  it gave her the experience of foreign language study and my understanding was she was comfortable with it.

 

Absolutely - I should have clarified that I meant verbal and written. She loves ASL. But because of her dyslexia, and how far behind she would be on so many levels, in her english studies when we came home, we wouldn't consider a German public school for her.

[Aiden]

I have no desire for them to attend the German schools, for my own reasons. My eldest is 12, middle is 5, and my youngest isn't yet school age.

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be cryptic, lol. I would send my youngers to an international school, obviously, but public wouldn't an option for my 12 year old. We were advised, with good reason, to drop formal study of foreign languages with her - as a dyslexic, english is difficult enough for her, without adding in a new language; further reasons include that the stint wouldn't only be for 2-3 years, and as a struggling student (compared to neurotypical children), she would be behind when she came home (as she would be attending a private Catholic high school at home). That far into high school, it's too risky.

 

The bolded part--that may be a problem with an international school as well. Although the instruction  would be in English, many--though not all--international schools require students to study the host nation's language. I'd start looking into the available international schools and determine if that's a non-waivable requirement at any school you would consider for your kids. If it is, then depending on who told you that a written/read foreign language isn't appropriate for your daughter (preferably a well-credentialed educational psychologist/counselor/advisor or something similar), then that advice may be an additional point of argument for why you should be allowed to homeschool even in Germany. Also, if the international schools reject your daughter for any reason, it would be a good argument for not forcing you to send her to the public German school that may hold weight with the authorities. If you teach her at home, then you can hire a private German tutor to teach her to understand and produce verbal German, if needed to satisfy the educational authorities, without the typical classroom requirement of reading and writing it.

 

If you would be there longer than the standard 2-3 years, then getting permission to homeschool may be more difficult than for more short-term residents. The more good arguments you can develop, and the more documentation you can gather, the better your chances of being allowed to homeschool her.

[AimeeM]

The bolded part--that may be a problem with an international school as well. Although the instruction  would be in English, many--though not all--international schools require students to study the host nation's language. I'd start looking into the available international schools and determine if that's a non-waivable requirement at any school you would consider for your kids. If it is, then depending on who told you that a written/read foreign language isn't appropriate for your daughter (preferably a well-credentialed educational psychologist/counselor/advisor or something similar), then that advice may be an additional point of argument for why you should be allowed to homeschool even in Germany. Also, if the international schools reject your daughter for any reason, it would be a good argument for not forcing you to send her to the public German school that may hold weight with the authorities. If you teach her at home, then you can hire a private German tutor to teach her to understand and produce verbal German, if needed to satisfy the educational authorities, without the typical classroom requirement of reading and writing it.

 

If you would be there longer than the standard 2-3 years, then getting permission to homeschool may be more difficult than for more short-term residents. The more good arguments you can develop, and the more documentation you can gather, the better your chances of being allowed to homeschool her.

 

They never really expat families for longer than 3 years, so that's a positive. I think it would be a fantastic opportunity for a few years.

 

[Spryte]

Homeschooling is illegal in Germany, but maybe you could educate at home under the supervision of a teacher or something? Hopefully Regentrude will know.

 

My husband could potentially take a job overseas, but it would be with the military. My understanding that you are allowed to homeschool overseas if you are under working for the DoD.

 

Ok, this site has a little info: http://www.stuttgarthomeschoolers.com/Legal.html

 

"If you are Americans here for legitimate civilian work on a temporary basis, home schooling during your stay is possible. We have had several families in this situation during the past few years and they chose one or both of the following options. The first was to just begin quietly home schooling and plan to explain it if confronted. This option has worked in all cases we know of but in more and more cases families are being called on to explain themselves which leads to the second option. The second approach is to write a letter or visit with the local school officials, explaining that you are here for only X years, and that you don’t want your children to fall behind in their English-speaking education. Families choosing this option gave the authorities a brief explanation of their course of study along with the assurance that this is a normal and legitimate educational choice for U.S. Citizens. Many also showed the officials evidence of the laws governing them in their home state and proof of the manner in which they would continue to comply with those laws while in Germany. No one we know of has had any problem with this approach either.

 

You can expect to be questioned by neighbors and German friends about why your children are not attending school. Most will accept that your child is studying at home since you are only here temporarily; and don’t want your children to fall behind. However, for the most part Germans do not understand the concept of ongoing home schooling at all, so keeping a low profile regarding your heart-for-home schooling sentiments will probably save unnecessary scrutiny. "

 

I had never heard of this option till you posted.  Thanks.  

 

DH works for a German company, and the opportunity to move there is always with us.  We generally put it off, knowing that homeschooling is not just illegal there, but probably viewed with ... misunderstanding or suspicion.  :)  But it is nice to hear that there is a possibility of making it work.

 

OP, please keep us posted on what you decide and how it works.  

[AimeeM]

I'll keep y'all posted. The option to move hasn't been offered yet, has he hasn't moved into that position yet (right now he's only a consultant, moving into an actual employee role within the German company next month) - we just know that they generally offer the expat option it at some point.

I would really love to do it - even if it meant my younger boys attending international school, and not homeschooling, for a few years.

I had never heard of this option till you posted.  Thanks.  

 

DH works for a German company, and the opportunity to move there is always with us.  We generally put it off, knowing that homeschooling is not just illegal there, but probably viewed with ... misunderstanding or suspicion.   :)  But it is nice to hear that there is a possibility of making it work.

 

OP, please keep us posted on what you decide and how it works.  

 

[QueenCat]

I'll keep y'all posted. The option to move hasn't been offered yet, has he hasn't moved into that position yet (right now he's only a consultant, moving into an actual employee role within the German country next month) - we just know that they generally offer the expat option it at some point.

I would really love to do it - even if it meant my younger boys attending international school, and not homeschooling, for a few years.

 

The International School's can be a real global learning experience. Dh went to one in the Philippines and one in Singapore. His friends were from so many places; he really treasures those experiences.

[AimeeM]

The International School's can be a real global learning experience. Dh went to one in the Philippines and one in Singapore. His friends were from so many places; he really treasures those experiences.

 

I would *love* for all of the children to go. My youngest wouldn't be school aged yet, unless the option isn't offered for many more years, but I'd love the older two to have that experience. I'm afraid, though, looking at their sites, that my oldest will not be able to have the option. Her dyslexia isn't classified as "mild", to my knowledge, and she is currently a private school specifically for dyslexic children.

It does sound promising, though, that homeschooling may still be an option for her there.