PSA: if there is snow or ice on the roof of your vehicle clean it off

[shanvan]

Is there an acceptable number?

That's what I was thinking!  If it happens to you your chances are 100%. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Is there an acceptable number?

For me, the answer is likely no.

 

But this opinion isn't universally applied by people to all things that cause injury or death so I'm trying to understand the strong response to this issue in particular.

 

There are many things I feel only require a common sense response to prevent injury or death, but there isn't universal agreement on what constitutes common sense. It is a very subjective thing.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

So I ask again, are there statistics for this?

 

( I've tried to find some, unsuccessfully)

[shanvan]

So I ask again, are there statistics for this?

 

( I've tried to find some, unsuccessfully)

I can't find them either.  I think they must be lumped in with weather related accidents.  I give up.  I've got to get something done besides posting today.  

 

I just know I'll be cleaning off my car whenever humanly possible unless there are some sort of extenuating circumstances.

[LMA]

This is not really a good comparison. The owner's of parking lots usually post notices that you park at your own risk. You are making a choice to park in a particular lot. Such lots are typically private property. 

 

When you are driving you cannot inform all the other people on the road that they are at their own risk choosing to be on the road with you. Roads are typically paid with taxes for the benefit of all, therefore it is reasonable to expect all who use roads to contribute to general safety on roads. 

There are not signs on most businesses that you are parking at your own risk. Maybe for general parking lots, but not at most places of business. Ice on a roof is the responsibility of the owner. The owner is responsible for certain safety. Homeowners are responsible for ice on their roof. In other words, owners of private property are responsible for the safety of the property.

 

If you fall on a city sidewalk due to ice, the city is not liable. It is their sidewalk, but you have no recourse to someone's insurance. This happened to a friend of mine. Her insurance picked up her bills for her back surgery. If you fall on the ice on someone's driveway, then the owner of the property is liable, however. So who is responsible for the general safety on the roads? The government? Then they should pull over every single car with ice on the roof. 

 

But what about those who text and drive? Who talk and drive? Who drink and drive? Who search around for something on the floor and drive? Who speed and drive? What about those tied up mattresses on top of cars? (I saw a driver of a tractor trailer talking on a cell phone two days ago.) There are so many other things on the road that are "unsafe." These people aren't contributing to general safety. 

 

Everything we do has a risk. And we can't control who cleans the roof of their cars. Nor can we control those who text and drive.

 

(I don't have time to come back here and read and reply, so I will have to sign off for now.)

[Dory]

That's so true. One sudden stop and... Uh oh... :eek:

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Maybe it's time for a thread about whether or not it should be OK to leave a crockpot on the roof of your car... ;)

 

 

No, no.  Cupcakes.

 

I've forgotten pepsi on the roof twice.

[MBM]

Ice falls off of high rises in downtown Chicago annually. I used to live on Michigan Avenue near Water Tower Place and almost every year and sometimes multiple times in a year, traffic would be rerouted away from Michigan Avenue and other streets surrounding the John Hancock due to huge chunks of ice falling off of the building. The ice can fall surprisingly far from the building. Some can be as long as 6' when they hit the ground. Ice can also knock out windows in the Hancock as it falls. Anyway, here is a list of some of the ice accidents that have occurred: 

 

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/02/chicagoans-vs-falling-icicles-history/1219/

 

According to the above link, the family of the man who was killed by ice falling off of Neiman Marcus successfully sued NM for $4.5 million even though NM had placed warning signs about falling ice.

 

1994: Donald Booth is waiting for a cab on Michigan Avenue when a hunk of ice the "size of a microwave" lands on his head, crushing his skull and spinal column. The 49-year-old man dies. His family later receives $4.5 million in a lawsuit against Neiman-Marcus, the tenant of the building from which the ice came.

 

 

 

[Catwoman]

I didn't. I thought this would get a couple of posts and die. And then it took on a whole new life.

 

I think cupcakes can be made in crockpots on the car roof. But my crock is heavy. If it wasn't securely attached to the roof someone could get hurt. Since I have never seen this happen I have no scientific basis for this belief. Maybe there is a vaccine that can help.

 

I have a terrible confession. I do not want the snowplow or tow truck drivers to wear kilts. They should wear warm flannel lined pants or long underwear. I bet someone has a pic of a guy in long underwear and a kilt.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[shanvan]

There are not signs on most businesses that you are parking at your own risk. Maybe for general parking lots, but not at most places of business. Ice on a roof is the responsibility of the owner. The owner is responsible for certain safety. Homeowners are responsible for ice on their roof. In other words, owners of private property are responsible for the safety of the property.

 

If you fall on a city sidewalk due to ice, the city is not liable. It is their sidewalk, but you have no recourse to someone's insurance. This happened to a friend of mine. Her insurance picked up her bills for her back surgery. If you fall on the ice on someone's driveway, then the owner of the property is liable, however. So who is responsible for the general safety on the roads? The government? Then they should pull over every single car with ice on the roof. 

 

But what about those who text and drive? Who talk and drive? Who drink and drive? Who search around for something on the floor and drive? Who speed and drive? What about those tied up mattresses on top of cars? (I saw a driver of a tractor trailer talking on a cell phone two days ago.) There are so many other things on the road that are "unsafe." These people aren't contributing to general safety. 

 

Everything we do has a risk. And we can't control who cleans the roof of their cars. Nor can we control those who text and drive.

 

(I don't have time to come back here and read and reply, so I will have to sign off for now.)

There are laws that address each of the bolded situations in most states.  You can be pulled over and ticketed for any of them.  Sure, we can't control others.  They (and we --meaning me too!) can be held accountable for our actions if they are endangering others.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I would like the recipe for crock pot cupcakes.

[shanvan]

I've forgotten pepsi on the roof twice.

Twice?  Err...ummm.... yeah that's how many times I've forgotten too.   :001_unsure:

 

To be fair, it was so long ago, I don't really remember how many times I did it.  I seemed to have a particular problem after a certain class one year.  That much I remember.

 

I haven't had a problem with Pepsi cans in years b/c I can't remember to even bring one with me in the car anymore!

[shanvan]

I would like the recipe for crock pot cupcakes.

Well, now I'll never get anything done b/c I'll be back here checking for that!  I'll have to check my Facebook page.  I'm sure my neighbor or one of her friends must have posted a photo of some they made....and then I'm sure someone else just HAD to post THEIR crockpot cupcakes which are better looking and better tasting.  And that will be my once a year visit to Facebook!

 

​ETA: I am trying to avoid all the things that I really need to get done.  Can you tell?

[MBM]

Crockpot strawberry cupcakes by Super Pickle:

 

http://cookinwithsuperpickle.blogspot.com/2011/07/crock-pot-strawberry-cupcakes.html

[bettyandbob]

There are not signs on most businesses that you are parking at your own risk. Maybe for general parking lots, but not at most places of business. Ice on a roof is the responsibility of the owner. The owner is responsible for certain safety. Homeowners are responsible for ice on their roof. In other words, owners of private property are responsible for the safety of the property.

 

If you fall on a city sidewalk due to ice, the city is not liable. It is their sidewalk, but you have no recourse to someone's insurance. This happened to a friend of mine. Her insurance picked up her bills for her back surgery. If you fall on the ice on someone's driveway, then the owner of the property is liable, however. So who is responsible for the general safety on the roads? The government? Then they should pull over every single car with ice on the roof. 

 

But what about those who text and drive? Who talk and drive? Who drink and drive? Who search around for something on the floor and drive? Who speed and drive? What about those tied up mattresses on top of cars? (I saw a driver of a tractor trailer talking on a cell phone two days ago.) There are so many other things on the road that are "unsafe." These people aren't contributing to general safety. 

 

Everything we do has a risk. And we can't control who cleans the roof of their cars. Nor can we control those who text and drive.

 

(I don't have time to come back here and read and reply, so I will have to sign off for now.)

 

 

I see signs in parking lots and on the sides of building all the time.

 

In many cities and small towns there are ordinances requiring business owners to clear the sidewalks in front of their business. The business owner is liable for a person's slip and fall on the sidewalk. There's a sidewalk that runs in front of my house. I do not own the side walk, but I am required to clear it and I do. I also put down plenty of salt, because I know I can't afford for someone to sue me over slipping on the sidewalk.

 

There are laws in most states for texting, drinking, using the cell phone while driving. Searching on the floor could get you reckless. driving. Mattressess on the roof need to be properly secured or you will be liable for damages. So, many of these things that contribute to general safety are also regulated. 

[shanvan]

I just love the name Super Pickle!  I've got to show that to my pickle loving Dd!

[Word Nerd]

Here's a related tweet and photo from the Mass State Police.

[Luanne]

Huh. I grew up in Chicago, land of lake-effect snow. I don't think I have ever known anyone to clear the top of the car. I have always cleared up just far enough to reach easily. As I am driving I use the wipers to keep it clear. It's a pretty common sight to see cars with big pillow-tops of snow driving.

 

Just because it is common, doesn't automatically make it safe.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

QGotD,

 

The problem with your arguments is that you are trying to argue against something everyone should do and that is the LAW in many places (and I have lived in more than one cold place, including Germany, where it is *definitely* the law) due to an unlikely extreme situation.

 

Your argument requires:

1. Someone who requires life saving treatments (and you know ZERO about my experience with that), therefore has appointments that they absolutely cannot miss

 

2. *and* has mobility problems

 

3. *and* lives in a place with lots of snow and ice

 

4. *and* lives alone with no friends, family, neighbors, government services or people available for hire

 

5. *and* lives rurally

 

6. *and* cannot call 911 for transport for their dire life or death medical appointment in an emergency situation

 

7. *and* (in at least one of your posts) doesn't own an ice scraper (!)

 

Do you not see the problem? Such a person would not be able to clear their driveway or scrape ice from their windshield, if they can't scrape ice/brush snow from their vehicle. You said yourself that snowplows don't clear such areas. Therefore, how would they get to their appointment at all?

 

Such a person would need to consider such needs as ability to travel to the hospital. Such a person, therefore, would likely not live alone, rurally, in a place with lots of ice and snow, in a place without services, etc. They would need to make wise decisions about such things.

 

You can yell at me, call me snide, imply that I am stupid, state that I don't know anything about having a child with medical issues (HA!!!) and so forth all day, but none of it will improve your far-fetched argument.

 

Can the vast majority of people clear ice and snow from the vehicle? Yes, yes they can.

 

Is it always easy? No. Is it impossible? No.

 

Do people with mobility issues *and* medical issues that require regular medical appointments tend to live alone, rurally, in a place without services and so forth? Not in my experience.

[Slartibartfast]

I agree with the bold. The suggestion of scrapping ice off the top of my car with a credit card if I have to is a joke and will never happen. I will take the ticket before I will climb on my car and scrap the ice off with a credit card. Even with the longer handled scrappers (not brushes, because those do not do a lick of good with ice) I can't reach the center of the top of my car. I would have to literally climb onto the hood of the car and then onto the roof. I will save my energy for getting out of my driveway, off my road and the next road and onto the highway.  

 

We get the temperature swings, just not as severe as you are describing.

 

Roll your eyes at me, you won't offend me. I still refuse to climb onto the roof of my car to scrap the ice with a credit card.

This is hyperbole. There are plenty of tools that are used to clean off a car roof.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is hyperbole. There are plenty of tools that are used to clean off a car roof.

http://m.instructables.com/id/The-Snow-Ripper-Rip-snow-from-your-roof-in-minut/

[Slartibartfast]

http://m.instructables.com/id/The-Snow-Ripper-Rip-snow-from-your-roof-in-minut/

 

 

:lol:

 

http://www.grainger.com/product/21EK34?gclid=CMSJ9uCAlbwCFWwV7Aod3TQAZQ&cm_mmc=PPC:GooglePLA-_-Fleet%2520and%2520Vehicle%2520Maintenance-_-Automotive%2520Maintenance%2520Tools-_-21EK34&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=21EK34&ef_id=UkdxBQAABb88TS-a:20140123191415:s

 

 

http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/163116700-Ice-Scraper-Long-Handle-7-In-p/161342.htm?utm_source=googleproducts&utm_medium=free_feed&utm_campaign=comparison_shopping_feeds&Click=1014&gclid=CLXO4oaBlbwCFeJF7AodUzEAlA

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-2610XB-Extender-48-Snowbroom/dp/B0000CBIGF/ref=sr_1_28?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1390504624&sr=1-28

[Upward Journey]

I've forgotten pepsi on the roof twice.

My grandmother once forgot a cake that she'd just picked up from the bakery....

[Slartibartfast]

I see the argument being over how easy this actually is.

 

Personally, I'm rolling my eyes at people who say it's a simple matter to shove the snow off the other side (not if you've got rails) or make sure you get it before it's icy (not if you have weather swings like ours -- we flip from warm to snow to 0F in the course of a few hours, then warm back up and dip down to re-freeze the entire mess).

 

Yes, it should be done.  I'm not arguing against that.   I roll my eyes at people here around here who don't clear their cars.  And I reserve the right to roll my eyes at the people on this thread who think what happens wetherwise in one area of the world is how it is universally, or who imply that because something is simple in their individual situation it is therefor universally simple for all people.  

 

 

I have lived in three different states with varying weather conditions. I live in a warmer area now, but before that I lived in an area that frequently had ice storms. I do have an ice scraper in my car. I haven't used it in over a year but before that it saw frequent use.

 

I lived in an area with excellent ice/snow removal, the roads would be clear before everyone's cars were so it was necessary to remove ice/snow because the highways would be traveling at normal speeds. Have you had a sheet of ice fly at you at 70 mph? It is not pleasant.

 

If you want to roll your eyes be my guest but that still doesn't mean it isn't against the law in some areas and won't involve fines, points on a license,  and restitution for injured parties.

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/snow_on_your_car_you_may_get_a.html

 

There are always arguments about how some safety issues are difficult for some people, like there were with carseats. There are still people who drive around with unsecured children or improperly secured children. There are many people who find it to be difficult or not fair. That doesn't meant it is acceptable to not use carseats.

 

There are many tools to aid in snow/ice removal. It only really requires a small amount of planning and preparation.

[Χά�ων]

This is hyperbole. There are plenty of tools that are used to clean off a car roof.

 

I just used the example given by Wishbone Dawn in her post:

 

 

 

A credit card is the classic substitution.  :D

 

 

 

 

I am not normally big on replying within a quote but your reply is long enough that I fear I will miss something. My reply is in red.

QGotD,

 

The problem with your arguments is that you are trying to argue against something everyone should do and that is the LAW in many places (and I have lived in more than one cold place, including Germany, where it is *definitely* the law) due to an unlikely extreme situation.

 

It is not the law in my state. It is not even something that has been discussed. And for kicks and went a searched the news station in the near by city (covering two states) and this was never mentioned. 

 

Your argument requires:

I never said this was true of everyone, I am just giving possible examples to counter the reasons that have been presented as true for everyone. I use my rural location with it's lack of services for the elderly and disabled, lack of snow removal by the county, distance to a maintain road for an example. I even said that if I had to get out in that situation I would not bother scraping the top of my car in addition to digging myself out of a 600ft driveway and 2 miles to the plowed highway.

 

1. Someone who requires life saving treatments (and you know ZERO about my experience with that), therefore has appointments that they absolutely cannot miss

 

I never negated or dismissed your experiences and I would appreciate it if you did not accuse me of such. Did you read my replies? I said that there are people who have to receive lifesaving treatments and cannot miss without risking death. Those clinics due not close. Last year the local(ish) news did a report about all the people who had to drive in for dialysis treatments, they did not have the luxury of going the next day. I do not know anything more about dialysis and what could happen if they miss, google it if you want to know more. Thankfully, this is not something I am having to deal with with my DS at this time and I hope never to have to. 

 

You mentioned that in bad weather your son's doctors office would close and just work the patients in the next day. I take from that that your son did not need to go that day without risking death. Not everyone has this luxury.

 

 

2. *and* has mobility problems

My parents have mobility limitations, as does my son. *I* am the only who can be outside to clean off the cars and driveway if I am not home or am too sick to do it, well... 

 

3. *and* lives in a place with lots of snow and ice

Lots? No. Someplace do not receive lots of snow and ice but are shut down when they get a freak storm. We usually get small amounts of snow every couple of weeks. As a general rule I can get in and out without too much issue. Sometimes it melts, sometimes it sticks around. When we were slammed with an obscene amount of snow last year no one could handle it. We were trapped. As in not leaving. The neighbors plowed the roads and even came and got us out. It took them an entire day to get us out and to the road. We were lucky our neighbors had the equipment, were willing to help everyone out (we all pitched in with gas) and  had the time. They very easily could have just gotten themselves out and gone on about their life, or been out of town (their work is primarily seasonal and they vacation in January and February.)

 

 

4. *and* lives alone with no friends, family, neighbors, government services or people available for hire

There are no government services here for this type of thing except if one calls for emergency services (as I mentioned up thread). Hiring someone is an awesome idea! Assuming they can get to that person's house. Seriously. If the person cannot get out, how is someone going to get to them? This is actually a huge issue here because it is such a LCOL area there are many older and disabled people with limited and fixed incomes. Many people move out here to get away and be left alone. I do not know all my neighbors. I only know the social ones. This is not that uncommon. 

 

 

5. *and* lives rurally

 

Not everyone lives urban or suburban. I am illustrating that a person who lives rural does not have access to the same services that those in urban and suburban living situations have. People who live rural do not have the same level of snow removal services that those who live in the city have. When I lived in the suburbs the plow would come by within a reasonable time frame. I may have been late to work, but he came that day. They never come here. They do not have the resources to do all the gravel and dirt roads. They keep the highways and main roads clear and call it good. 

 

6. *and* cannot call 911 for transport for their dire life or death medical appointment in an emergency situation

 

911 is for emergencies, not to transport to routine medical care (routine life saving treatments are still routine.) I mentioned in a previous post about 911 being an option and I joked that they were dedicated but that I could not share the story without starting it with "You might be a redneck if". Since you missed that post I am saying it again. They will come, but do not have the resources to act as a non emergency transport. They are very dedicated and very creative and will do everything they can to reach a person in an EMERGENCY. 

 

7. *and* (in at least one of your posts) doesn't own an ice scraper (!)

 

Not everyone who gets winter weather owns one. I went to visit a friend on the East Coast, she got 2 feet of snow and asked me to pick up a shovel on my way because she didn't own one. 

 

Do you not see the problem? Such a person would not be able to clear their driveway or scrape ice from their windshield, if they can't scrape ice/brush snow from their vehicle. You said yourself that snowplows don't clear such areas. Therefore, how would they get to their appointment at all? 

 

They start early and clear the roads themselves or take the chance and drive on the snow anyway. You do what you need to do.

 

Such a person would need to consider such needs as ability to travel to the hospital. Such a person, therefore, would likely not live alone, rurally, in a place with lots of ice and snow, in a place without services, etc. They would need to make wise decisions about such things.

 

Disability does not discriminate based on where a person lives. Since we moved out here my parents went from able bodied and fairly active to having major health issues that have severely limited what they can do. We put our money together and bought this place and there is no money to move.

 

You can yell at me, call me snide, imply that I am stupid, state that I don't know anything about having a child with medical issues (HA!!!) and so forth all day, but none of it will improve your far-fetched argument.

 

I never yelled at you or implied you were stupid, Where is this coming from? I never said your child did not have medical issues. I did say that going by your own words, his medical appointments were not life or death. There is a difference, it is huge.

 

Can the vast majority of people clear ice and snow from the vehicle? Yes, yes they can.

Never said they couldn't. I am not talking about the vast majority of people.

 

Is it always easy? No. Is it impossible? No.

 

It is so easy to say that when it is not something you are facing. Once you have had the experience of scraping a car, digging out of a long driveway, and rural road you can come back and tell me how much energy you had left to scrap the ice off the top of your car. Until then your experience of brushing the snow  (snow is not ice!) off a car is not in the same league.

 

Do people with mobility issues *and* medical issues that require regular medical appointments tend to live alone, rurally, in a place without services and so forth? Not in my experience.

 

If you do not live in a rural community and are unaware of the unique disadvantages of living rural, you would not have that experience. 

 

[[email protected]]

Um...

 

A little too much passion on this topic.

 

How about a break? A breather? A cupcake???

 

Moderator

[Guest]

I kinda always thought it was fun to watch huge sheets of ice fly off the top of trucks. It's a rewarding spectacle I only get to observe a couple of times a year, like how people up north hang out in the freezing cold to check out aurora borealis. 

[Slartibartfast]

I guess what I want to know now is that if someone spends hours trying to clear the roads out of their community so they can get out, how is their ice still on the roof of their car?

[KungFuPanda]

I kinda always thought it was fun to watch huge sheets of ice fly off the top of trucks. It's a rewarding spectacle I only get to observe a couple of times a year, like how people up north hang out in the freezing cold to check out aurora borealis.

 

I want to see that some day, but I always assumed I could watch through a window while seated near a roaring fire.

[Dory]

I want to see that some day, but I always assumed I could watch through a window while seated near a roaring fire.

 

Best way to see those things is out away from any other source of light. Then you can hear them sing. Can't hear them inside or really watch them dance.

[kitten18]

My grandmother once forgot a cake that she'd just picked up from the bakery....

My mom got flagged down more than once to let her know she had a cat on the top of her car. :D

[Upward Journey]

I kinda always thought it was fun to watch huge sheets of ice fly off the top of trucks. It's a rewarding spectacle I only get to observe a couple of times a year, like how people up north hang out in the freezing cold to check out aurora borealis.

 

Best way to see those things is out away from any other source of light. Then you can hear them sing. Can't hear them inside or really watch them dance.

I got to see them for the first time when we were flying home in December. The pilot turned off all the interior lights for us. It was spectacular!

[WishboneDawn]

I agree with the bold. The suggestion of scrapping ice off the top of my car with a credit card if I have to is a joke and will never happen. I will take the ticket before I will climb on my car and scrap the ice off with a credit card. Even with the longer handled scrappers (not brushes, because those do not do a lick of good with ice) I can't reach the center of the top of my car. I would have to literally climb onto the hood of the car and then onto the roof. I will save my energy for getting out of my driveway, off my road and the next road and onto the highway.

 

We get the temperature swings, just not as severe as you are describing.

 

Roll your eyes at me, you won't offend me. I still refuse to climb onto the roof of my car to scrap the ice with a credit card.

Who suggested that? I think I was the one that mentioned credit cards but it was me joking about last minute ice scrapers, not suggestion to anyone here.

 

ETA: Yeah, it was my post because you quoted it later. However you also posted the smiley face. I was really, honestly, truly not suggesting that anyone climb on top of their car with a credit card to clear the ice.

[Tap]

Post 188 by MaryWiltonn reported as spam

 

 

Resurrected thread

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Tap