Serious Question about Common Core Math Standards

[MinivanMom]

Do the CC math standards require that children be taught alternative algorithms for the four operations? Our district (one of the largest urban districts on the East Coast) has switched over to CC standards this year and there is a huge outcry among parents whose children are being taught alternative algorithms for basic operations. A friend was just complaining that she can't help her 2nd grader with his addition & subtraction homework, because she doesn't understand the method they are using. If she tries to show her son how to regroup, he gets upset and says she's doing it wrong. The teacher hasn't been helpful. Apparently they don't want parents to help their kids with math, because they (the parents) don't understand the new methods of CC.

 

What I'm also hearing is that older students are being taught only the alternative algorithms for long division and multiplication (lattice multiplication & some method for long division I wasn't understanding). Their teachers are not teaching them the traditional algorithms at all and are marking problems wrong if students use the "wrong" (traditional) method (which they are learning from their parents at home). This is happening district-wide and parents are being told that it is required by CC. There are no textbooks now, so when parents are asking about what curriculum is being used they are being told, "We teach Common Core." If the parents press to know how they are teaching or what curriculum is being used they are given the line, "We use a variety of resources, but we don't use a curriculum. We teach Common Core." Parents are all up at arms over this, particularly the long division method which has people pretty twitchy. I live in an educated, left-leaning area so I don't think this is just a reaction to CC or to the idea of national standards.

 

I'm wondering - from those who are familiar with CC or generally with math instruction - whether this is actually required by CC or whether this is our district's interpretation of CC. I'm thinking our district is just on its own ideological path and claiming that everything is "required" by CC is an easy out with parents. Does anybody know where I could find this information in the standards themselves?

 

*Please no general common core bashing or linking to partisan websites. Thanks.*

[Arcadia]

I'm wondering - from those who are familiar with CC or generally with math instruction - whether this is actually required by CC or whether this is our district's interpretation of CC. I'm thinking our district is just on its own ideological path and claiming that everything is "required" by CC is an easy out with parents. Does anybody know where I could find this information in the standards themselves?

Your state's dept of education website would have your state's CC math standards in detail. My school district is using Pearson Envision Math CC edition. They were using Envision math all along before CC. All methods are still allowed credit.

 

ETA:

Example

NY common core math standard (PDF)

CA common core math standard (PDF)

[Library Momma]

When my children were in lower elementary (before Common Core was implemented) there were similar concerns because the school system was using Everyday Math.  Most teachers however taught traditional methods along side the alternative methods and students were free to do either, but they needed to have an understanding of the EM methods.  When I speak to parents with children in the lower elementary grades now they have the same exact concerns but blame it on Common Core. The school system has to tell the parents what curriculum they are using.  A school system telling parents that CC is the curriculum would send up a red flag for me.

[snowbeltmom]

When my children were in lower elementary (before Common Core was implemented) there were similar concerns because the school system was using Everyday Math.

 

:iagree:

The situation the OP described is exactly what I experienced 6 years ago with our public school after it switched to Everyday "Math".

 

[Joker]

Our schools have implemented Common Core but math textbooks did not change. Common Core itself is not a curriculum; it's just a guide. The only change in teaching we have noticed is that the students are now required to understand what they are doing well enough to write how/why they did it.

[sunnyday]

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/NBT

 

The Common Core is common to all states, so you may as well go to the source.

 

As you can see, adding and subtracting by the traditional algorithm is a 4th grade standard. Prior to that, students are to be able to express different strategies and to explain why they work based on place value. Thus, if a parent says "start from the right and carry" and the student has been taught "make a 10 and regroup", the student will not be learning the correct conceptual understanding from the parent's explanation.

 

Lattice multiplication does not (inherently) give a solid conceptual understanding, so I don't think it fits the 4th grade standard for multiplying two-digit numbers using an understanding of place value and explaining with equations, rectangular arrays, or area models. This is a flawed execution of the standard if that's the excuse being given. That said, multiplying with the standard algorithm is a 5th grade standard.

[Arcadia]

I am admittedly not familiar with the CC math requirement specifics, but the book I'm using states in large letters "common core" on the front.  It is Math in Focus (Singapore Math).  There are no alternate algorithms taught in it (referring to stuff like lattice multiplication). 

Math in Focus California edition for K to 8 and the Go Math books are surprisingly online at publisher's website.

[MinivanMom]

When my children were in lower elementary (before Common Core was implemented) there were similar concerns because the school system was using Everyday Math.  Most teachers however taught traditional methods along side the alternative methods and students were free to do either, but they needed to have an understanding of the EM methods.  When I speak to parents with children in the lower elementary grades now they have the same exact concerns but blame it on Common Core. The school system has to tell the parents what curriculum they are using.  A school system telling parents that CC is the curriculum would send up a red flag for me.

 

About a decade ago our school district adopted Everyday Math. They were finally forced to discard it after intense lobbying by angry parents. Even though they dropped it, there were some individual schools that were continuing to teach using some of its methods. What is new this year is the district-wide push for all schools to be teaching the alternative algorithms and the claim that this is part of CC. A lot of the math complaints are coming from 4th grade parents whose kids are just now learning long division with the alternative algorithm. It's possible that they are planning to teach the traditional one down the line, but there seems to be a lack of transparency there - hence parental frustration.

 

I'm really baffled by the, "We don't have a curriculum. We teach Common Core," line. I agree that it seems like a red flag. I know someone who has been touring schools across the district as she tries to decide where she might want to apply for her rising K-er (we have magnets & school choice). She has gotten this line at every single school she has been to. I don't know what to make of it. I know that our (very controlling) district puts out day-by-day guidelines for what elementary teachers are supposed to be teaching each day in each subject, but they must be teaching from something, right? Even if the district is dictating it, they must be getting it from somewhere. I'm just baffled by the lack of transparency.

[8filltheheart]

I know nothing about CC, but I do know that the schools here do not use textbooks (at least at the high school level).   ds has been tutoring students in math and they don't have textbooks.  Everything is some sort of online program (not an ebook).  A friend whose dd is failing 12th grade has tried to get answers so she can help her dd pass and has hit road blocks constantly b/c they do not want parental involvement and they will give no answers to "what is she using in her classroom."

[Momling]

I don't know what's going on in your district... but in ours, meeting the Common Core standards have actually forced our district to give up their TERC Investigations (which did not teach standard algorithms) and take on a new program (Math Expressions) that teaches a number of ways to solve problems.  I'm quite happy for the common core standards! I think it's raised the bar for our district. The kids and teachers have had a rough time since they were a bit behind, but are adjusting fine.  I'm really pleased that my child will now be taught long division!

[boscopup]

The CC standards require teaching the standard algorithms. I don't recall seeing lattice multiplication in there at all (that's an Everyday Math type thing).

 

I think your district is just making stuff up and calling it CC. :tongue_smilie:

[Arcadia]

 I don't recall seeing lattice multiplication in there at all (that's an Everyday Math type thing).

 

 

 

What I'm also hearing is that older students are being taught only the alternative algorithms for long division and multiplication (lattice multiplication & some method for long division I wasn't understanding). Their teachers are not teaching them the traditional algorithms at all and are marking problems wrong if students use the "wrong" (traditional) method (which they are learning from their parents at home). 

 

Everyday Math lattice multiplication is apparently taught in 3rd and 4th grade. Everyday Math is stated on the McGraw-Hill website as "100% common core aligned". Link is to 4th grade teacher guide for lattice multiplication including answers for student worksheets.  https://www.mheonline.com/emcrosswalk/pdf/4/L05-07.pdf

[Guest]

I've heard a lot of this, that there is nothing that confused parents can do to help their children, but I was talking to my SIL the other day and in my nephew's math textbook (jr. high), there is a link to a website that walks them through every single type of problem. I'm sure this isn't everywhere, but it does exist. They are in CA, fwiw.

[Farrar]

Alternative methods can be really good for helping kids get a conceptual understanding of what they're doing.  All the automatic decrying of such methods is annoying to me.

 

On the other hand, "don't help with homework because you can't understand it" is an absurd tactic for trying to get any parent on your side.  That's just poor school politics.  I am baffled that so many schools treat parents in such a belittling manner.  It doesn't matter if the new methods are good or bad - if that's how the school treats the parents, then the methods will be treated with contempt.

 

A new CC aligned curricula's dictates is not the same as the CC.  The media, the school system, and everyone in between seems determined to pin every single change on CC these days.  I'm pretty annoyed by that as well.  Parents should go to the source, as suggested above, and read the CC themselves.

[boscopup]

Everyday Math lattice multiplication is apparently taught in 3rd and 4th grade. Everyday Math is stated on the McGraw-Hill website as "100% common core aligned". Link is to 4th grade teacher guide for lattice multiplication including answers for student worksheets.  https://www.mheonline.com/emcrosswalk/pdf/4/L05-07.pdf

 

Yes, Everyday Math includes it, but that's not part of CC. CC does not require it at all. In order to be CC aligned, they have to meet all the requirements of CC. They can also go beyond those requirements and teach other things. Beast Academy is also CC aligned, and I can assure you that they're teaching things not required by CC. ;)

 

[Farrar]

Yes, Everyday Math includes it, but that's not part of CC. CC does not require it at all. In order to be CC aligned, they have to meet all the requirements of CC. They can also go beyond those requirements and teach other things. Beast Academy is also CC aligned, and I can assure you that they're teaching things not required by CC. ;)

 

 

Exactly.  Being CC aligned doesn't mean every single question or topic in the curriculum comes straight down from the CC.  I see this all the time these days where there's a single poorly written, overly difficult, or just plain idiotic question posted on social media with a line like, "Look what the CC is making our kids do!"  No, the CC is not making the kids do that.  The specific curriculum is.  And most of the time, it's unrelated.

 

Sigh.  I really dislike many things about the CC, but at this point, the whole business has become so polarized that I can't imagine it's ever going to succeed or fail on its merits.

[PeachyDoodle]

Do the CC math standards require that children be taught alternative algorithms for the four operations? Our district (one of the largest urban districts on the East Coast) has switched over to CC standards this year and there is a huge outcry among parents whose children are being taught alternative algorithms for basic operations. A friend was just complaining that she can't help her 2nd grader with his addition & subtraction homework, because she doesn't understand the method they are using. If she tries to show her son how to regroup, he gets upset and says she's doing it wrong. The teacher hasn't been helpful. Apparently they don't want parents to help their kids with math, because they (the parents) don't understand the new methods of CC.

 

What I'm also hearing is that older students are being taught only the alternative algorithms for long division and multiplication (lattice multiplication & some method for long division I wasn't understanding). Their teachers are not teaching them the traditional algorithms at all and are marking problems wrong if students use the "wrong" (traditional) method (which they are learning from their parents at home). This is happening district-wide and parents are being told that it is required by CC. There are no textbooks now, so when parents are asking about what curriculum is being used they are being told, "We teach Common Core." If the parents press to know how they are teaching or what curriculum is being used they are given the line, "We use a variety of resources, but we don't use a curriculum. We teach Common Core." Parents are all up at arms over this, particularly the long division method which has people pretty twitchy. I live in an educated, left-leaning area so I don't think this is just a reaction to CC or to the idea of national standards.

 

I'm wondering - from those who are familiar with CC or generally with math instruction - whether this is actually required by CC or whether this is our district's interpretation of CC. I'm thinking our district is just on its own ideological path and claiming that everything is "required" by CC is an easy out with parents. Does anybody know where I could find this information in the standards themselves?

 

*Please no general common core bashing or linking to partisan websites. Thanks.*

 

I don't know if this is a result of implementing CC or some other problem, but this is exactly what we were seeing with dd in public school. It's part of the reason we decided to homeschool. Neither of us could help her with her homework because we didn't understand the methods. There were no textbooks or other resources for us to consult (she had no textbooks whatsoever, just dozens and dozens of worksheets and "journals"). We were basically told, at the meeting they had at the first of every year to discuss curricula, not to bother to try to assist our kids; we'd just confuse them (this was true in math and also in reading and spelling -- they didn't want us interfering with their methodology). Fortunately, dd didn't struggle picking up the material, but I intensely disliked the feeling of not knowing or understanding what she was learning. I worried about it becoming a real problem down the line.

 

FWIW, our district began implementing CC when dd was in 1st grade, but we experienced some of these things even in kindergarten, although I can't speak too much to pre-CC because we only got in one year (and it was just kindergarten). However, it does appear that some of these issues might be indicative of an overall shift in educational methods/philosophy and not related to CC (or that CC is more of a symptom than a cause). Either way, I'm glad we're out.

 

[Farrar]

Yeah I don't know.  Were people always so freaked out and fed up?  I do recall people being upset about NCLB.  Growing up though, I don't recall my parents freaking out so much about school stuff.

 

I think it's just been a constant, on going, slowly increasing struggle in the school system.  My mother did freak out about the public school I was supposed to attend.  She sent me to private school an hour away and then considered homeschooling me (quite a thing back then!) when they couldn't afford it.  But it was as much about other issues (my mother had a real culture clash with the weird, racist, redneck county she found herself living in when I started school) as the quality of the academics.

 

I think CC just continues what Diane Ravitch has called the "crisis narrative" in the schools.  I don't think they can really change or improve until that crisis narrative is broken.  Giving parents the "don't help with homework" message is just exacerbating the problem.

[MinivanMom]

Alternative methods can be really good for helping kids get a conceptual understanding of what they're doing.  All the automatic decrying of such methods is annoying to me.

 

On the other hand, "don't help with homework because you can't understand it" is an absurd tactic for trying to get any parent on your side.  That's just poor school politics.  I am baffled that so many schools treat parents in such a belittling manner.  It doesn't matter if the new methods are good or bad - if that's how the school treats the parents, then the methods will be treated with contempt.

 

A new CC aligned curricula's dictates is not the same as the CC.  The media, the school system, and everyone in between seems determined to pin every single change on CC these days.  I'm pretty annoyed by that as well.  Parents should go to the source, as suggested above, and read the CC themselves.

 

I completely agree. What I'm thrown by in our district is that it seems to be the district that is blaming CC rather than the parents. I mean the parents are blaming CC too, but I don't blame them when they are being told by the teachers that whatever they are upset about in the curriculum is required by CC. I'm listening to these stories and I completely sympathize with my friends' frustrations, but I'm thinking to myself, "The school district is bs-ing you. None of this is required by Common Core." I don't really feel as a homeschooling parent I can say that, though, without sounding like I'm criticizing public school so I mostly I just nod sympathetically.

 

I will say that our school district has a long history of treating parents terribly. They don't want parents to know what's going on, they don't want them involved, and they have a long history of being very secretive when there are huge changes in the works. As a result we have had several huge swings in ideology on the school board over the last several years with all the resultant drama (yes, that's been our school district getting slammed in the NY Times and mocked by Colbert). While everyone is worked up over school board drama and bussing, the things that really matter happen without any parental input and parents are always caught off guard and then predictably angry. From a PR standpoint CC has become a nightmare for the district, and it seems like they have only themselves to blame. Parents complain about their children being failed for using traditional algorithms to get the correct answer, and the teacher piously blames CC math standards. If I didn't know better, I would think the district was trying to turn parents against CC.

[MinivanMom]

So, yes, I think our school district is just crazy. I do appreciate the confirmation that this isn't a cc required thing. That's what I suspected.

 

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on with the lack of textbooks? It's not just that we don't have physical textbooks, the district is claiming that they don't use any curriculum at all. The whole, "We teach Common Core math," line is sounding like a smokescreen to me. So, officially the school district is no longer using Everyday Math, but I'm wondering whether EM is one of the "resources" the school district is using to teach math instead of using a single official curriculum.

[Farrar]

I will say that our school district has a long history of treating parents terribly. They don't want parents to know what's going on, they don't want them involved, and they have a long history of being very secretive when there are huge changes in the works. As a result we have had several huge swings in ideology on the school board over the last several years with all the resultant drama (yes, that's been our school district getting slammed in the NY Times and mocked by Colbert). While everyone is worked up over school board drama and bussing, the things that really matter happen without any parental input and parents are always caught off guard and then predictably angry. From a PR standpoint CC has become a nightmare for the district, and it seems like they have only themselves to blame. Parents complain about their children being failed for using traditional algorithms to get the correct answer, and the teacher piously blames CC math standards. If I didn't know better, I would think the district was trying to turn parents against CC.

 

Perhaps I don't know better, but I've wondered if that's the case in many districts.  After all, the teachers, the administrators, even the top officials in many districts are just being handed the CC.  They feel just as powerless as the parents.  It seems to me that they have zero interest vested in it and may want the parents to raise a ruckus and get it pushed back out.  Sigh.  Crisis narrative perpetuated.

[Dana]

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on with the lack of textbooks? It's not just that we don't have physical textbooks, the district is claiming that they don't use any curriculum at all. .

Years ago one issue was that students wouldn't have their texts when in class. So some teachers would have classroom sets. I think this has just continued from that. We expect less and less from students.

[Arcadia]

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on with the lack of textbooks? It's not just that we don't have physical textbooks, the district is claiming that they don't use any curriculum at all. The whole, "We teach Common Core math," line is sounding like a smokescreen to me.

My opinion is that the district is not willing to release the names of textbooks/curriculum/resources so that parents would not go and buy a copy off the 2nd hand bookstore or borrow from the library.  California is kind of comical in that because students tend to "forget" to bring their textbooks home to do their homework, most teachers post entire textbooks online. My school district actually displays all the curriculum in the classrooms for back to school night as well as open houses.

 

ETA:

Everyday Math syllabus page http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/teaching-topics/standards/

Everyday Math working with parents page :)  http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/teaching-topics/working-with-parents/

4th grade parent page http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/parents/4th-grade/em-at-home/

 

ETA:

If you are in NY

"Section 701 of Education Law requires all school boards to purchase and to loan textbooks on an equitable basis to all pupils residing in the school district who are attending kindergarten through grade twelve in any public or nonpublic school. Parents are responsible for requesting the loan of textbooks their children need from the district in which they live." (link)

[Joker]

As far as online textbooks, my dds can access most of their books that way. It's not because students forget or don't bring their textbook to school though. Here it is because students are not allowed backpacks; only cinch bags. Most leave their books in their locker (that they can only access twice a day). So, they have online access to do homework at home. Their arms and bags become quite full with the books, separate binder for each class (block schedule so only 4 a day), spiral notebooks, and such. I love having online access to the textbook.

[MinivanMom]

My opinion is that the district is not willing to release the names of textbooks/curriculum/resources so that parents would not go and buy a copy off the 2nd hand bookstore or borrow from the library.  California is kind of comical in that because students tend to "forget" to bring their textbooks home to do their homework, most teachers post entire textbooks online. My school district actually displays all the curriculum in the classrooms for back to school night as well as open houses.

 

ETA:

Everyday Math syllabus page http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/teaching-topics/standards/

Everyday Math working with parents page :)  http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/teaching-topics/working-with-parents/

4th grade parent page http://everydaymath.uchicago.edu/parents/4th-grade/em-at-home/

 

Thanks for posting all these links. I didn't occur to me before this thread, but I'm now thinking that our district is simply continuing to use Everyday Math even though they claim they aren't. Everything I'm hearing parents complain about is right here. It's too bad public school parents are not being given this information or these links. Then they could at least understand what the teachers are trying to do and help their kids with the work. I think we are having some serious issues with transparency.

[Tracy]

Common Core proponents have made a huge deal that Common Core is not a curriculum and that schools are still free to use whichever curriculum they want.  I understand that Common Core wants students to be familiar with alternative algorithms, but I don't think they intended that to be at the exclusion of the traditional algorithms.  But there is bound to be varied interpretation of those guidelines among school districts.

[Korrale]

:iagree:

The situation the OP described is exactly what I experienced 6 years ago with our public school after it switched to Everyday "Math".

 

Happened here too. They recently phased out Everyday math.

[Korrale]

So, yes, I think our school district is just crazy. I do appreciate the confirmation that this isn't a cc required thing. That's what I suspected.

 

Does anyone have any idea what could be going on with the lack of textbooks? It's not just that we don't have physical textbooks, the district is claiming that they don't use any curriculum at all. The whole, "We teach Common Core math," line is sounding like a smokescreen to me. So, officially the school district is no longer using Everyday Math, but I'm wondering whether EM is one of the "resources" the school district is using to teach math instead of using a single official curriculum.

My son at home uses Go Math! It is a mix of traditional and non traditional. And it is considered to be a non textbook program because the program is done exclusively through direct instruction and workbooks. Perishable workbooks are not considered text books. It does not fall into the curriculum free category though.

 

As for the CC excuse many different math ideologies meet CC.

[Roadrunner]

Our district used envision pre-CC and post-CC. Nothing changed. However math in high school is being integrated per CC (mixed algebra and geometry) and new textbooks haven't been published yet, so our high school is using workbooks only, while the teacher is teaching from notes. It's a mess for now according to kids.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Can I just say that the ones I feel sorry for are the jr. high and high school kids who are having to live through this transition???   

[Haiku]

ds has been tutoring students in math and they don't have textbooks.  

 

My dd's 9th grade math class had no textbook. The school had developed the curriculum itself, and everything was based on smart-board lessons and handouts that were sent home. It was horrible, and we were unable to help our (struggling) dd with math because we had no idea what she was learning. Two years later the school came to its senses and published its curriculum in book form.

[MinivanMom]

Common Core proponents have made a huge deal that Common Core is not a curriculum and that schools are still free to use whichever curriculum they want.  I understand that Common Core wants students to be familiar with alternative algorithms, but I don't think they intended that to be at the exclusion of the traditional algorithms.  But there is bound to be varied interpretation of those guidelines among school districts.

 

Does it? Reading through the standards I'm not seeing that. Certainly, they give the option of teaching an alternative algorithm, but I'm not seeing a requirement.

 

From Grade 4 Arithmetic:

 

"Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm."

 

"Multiply a whole number of up to 4 digits by a one-digit whole number, and multiply two two-digit numbers, using strategies based on place value and the properties of operations. Illustrate and explain the calculation by using equations, rectangular arrays, and/or area models."

 

"Find whole-number quotients and remainders with up to four-digit dividends and one-digit divisors, using strategies based on place value, the properties of operations, and/or the relationship between multiplication and division. Illustrate and explain the calculation by using equations, rectangular arrays, and/or area models."

 

From Grade 5 Arithmetic:

 

"Fluently multiply multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm."

 

I think it's a little strange that CC doesn't require teaching the standard algorithms for addition and subtraction until 4th grade, but that doesn't prohibit schools from teaching them earlier. I also think it's strange that the standard algorithm for multiplication isn't required until 5th, but again that doesn't prohibit schools from teaching it earlier. Theoretically for multiplication a school could teach only the standard algorithm in 4th, they could teach both standard and alternative algorithms in 4th, or they could teach only the alternative algorithm in 4th and then teach the traditional algorithm in 5th. I don't think simply not teaching the standard algorithm is a valid interpretation, though, because it's clearly one of the Grade 5 standards. I also don't think the alternative algorithms are required by this standard. Certainly, it is one of the options, but the use of the phrase "strategies based on place value" and the phrase "and/or" seems to give a lot of leeway to districts to continue teaching the way they want to so long as they meet the minimum standard.

[MinivanMom]

Our district used envision pre-CC and post-CC. Nothing changed. However math in high school is being integrated per CC (mixed algebra and geometry) and new textbooks haven't been published yet, so our high school is using workbooks only, while the teacher is teaching from notes. It's a mess for now according to kids.

 

Is this required by CC? Our district is also transitioning from Alg, Geo, Alg II to an integrated math sequence. They claim they are doing this to meet CC standards, but I'm just not seeing this as a requirement in the CC standards. From the section "Notes on courses & transitions" on the CC website:

 

"The high school portion of the Standards for Mathematical Content specifies the mathematics all students should study for college and career readiness. These standards do not mandate the sequence of high school courses. However, the organization of high school courses is a critical component to implementation of the standards. To that end, sample high school pathways for mathematics - in both a traditional course sequence (Algebra I, Geometry, and Algebra II) as well as an integrated course sequence (Mathematics 1, Mathematics 2, Mathematics 3) - will be made available shortly after the release of the final Common Core State Standards. It is expected that additional model pathways based on these standards will become available as well.

 

"The standards themselves do not dictate curriculum, pedagogy, or delivery of content. In particular, states may handle the transition to high school in different ways. For example, many students in the U.S. today take Algebra I in the 8th grade, and in some states this is a requirement. The K-7 standards contain the prerequisites to prepare students for Algebra I by 8th grade, and the standards are designed to permit states to continue existing policies concerning Algebra I in 8th grade."

 

I think this is pretty clear that either option is okay, yet our state is saying the same thing: that all schools have to switch to Integrated Math, because it is required by CC. Parents here are pretty upset about the switch. Personally I don't think either traditional or integrated is intrinsically superior, but I understand the concerns that our local parents have. There are no textbooks for these new courses and there has not been much info from the school, so parents are naturally concerned about their kids being used as guinea pigs and not getting all the instruction they would have gotten in the traditional sequence. How will they know until their kids finish the sequence? By then they're taking PSAT and from the parents' standpoint a lot of damage could have been done already. I think they should be more upset that these changes happened without any public discussion and without any parental input, but what could they say at the time? When the state and the district say, "This is required by Common Core; we have no choice," then the parents don't feel like there is anything they can say or do.

[MinivanMom]

Can I just say that the ones I feel sorry for are the jr. high and high school kids who are having to live through this transition???   

 

This.

 

I can't believe how worked up I am about this. I don't even have kids in public school! I just hate to see the huge swings in educational theory and methodology. It is always the kids that get caught in the middle of it.

 

ETA: Just to be clear: I'm not feeling upset about Common Core or the CC standards themselves. I feel upset that our state and district are using CC as an excuse to make the ideological changes they want to without parental input. I hate that the students are having to experience swings in methodology when the intention of CC was simply to raise standards across the nation, standards which our district was already exceeding.

[KrissiK]

I'm not sure if they are using alternate algorithms, but a gf has said that when her 5th grade son brings home math and doesn't understand it, the parents are not allowed to help, but they should put a "check mark" by the problem to indicate it has been looked at, but the child doesn't understand it. That's here in Central California.

[Arcadia]

Is this required by CC? Our district is also transitioning from Alg, Geo, Alg II to an integrated math sequence. They claim they are doing this to meet CC standards, but I'm just not seeing this as a requirement in the CC standards.

It is up to the individual school districts to decide.  California has both traditional and integrated tracks listed in the Common Core scope and sequence on their DoE webpage. Both Pearson and Holt have new Algebra 1, Geometry and Algebra 2 textbooks that are common core compliant to replace the older versions.

 

ETA:

Page 18-20 of this link shows sample paths for both traditional and integrated path for California's implementation

[TCB]

Reading this thread, it is so apparent that the text book companies are the ones who will really benefit from this. New Alg 1, Geometry, and Alg 2 textbooks to replace the old?? I saw a video of one of the common core math standards developers admitting that the CC standards in math will not prepare students for selective universities, so it would not seem that the NEW textbooks will be an improvement on the old!

 

ETA - I think the person I saw saying this was Jason Zimba in case anyone is interested

[Roadrunner]

It is up to the individual school districts to decide. California has both traditional and integrated tracks listed in the Common Core scope and sequence on their DoE webpage. Both Pearson and Holt have new Algebra 1, Geometry and Algebra 2 textbooks that are common core compliant to replace the older versions.

 

ETA:

Page 18-20 of this link shows sample paths for both traditional and integrated path for California's implementation

I was going to say I had no idea if integrated math was CC requirement. I only know that in our district it seems to be the only choice in high school. I am planning on putting kids back to school in high school, so I am really hoping they have their ducks in order by then.

[Library Momma]

Reading this thread, it is so apparent that the text book companies are the ones who will really benefit from this. New Alg 1, Geometry, and Alg 2 textbooks to replace the old?? I saw a video of one of the common core math standards developers admitting that the CC standards in math will not prepare students for selective universities, so it would not seem that the NEW textbooks will be an improvement on the old!

 

ETA - I think the person I saw saying this was Jason Zimba in case anyone is interested

 

 

This doesn't make sense to me.  The CC standards like any standards are the minimum requirements that need to be met by students in each grade.  Students going to selective universities would not be on a path following the minimum requirements.  They most likely would not be taking Algebra in High School, they would be taking Algebra in 6th, 7th or 8th grade depending on their track.

[Farrar]

This doesn't make sense to me.  The CC standards like any standards are the minimum requirements that need to be met by students in each grade.  Students going to selective universities would not be on a path following the minimum requirements.  They most likely would not be taking Algebra in High School, they would be taking Algebra in 6th, 7th or 8th grade depending on their track.

 

I've seen at least a couple of districts that have eliminated middle school algebra programs in order to concentrate resources on getting all kids up to CC level for those grades and also to ensure that students being tested will be practicing the material they're being tested on instead of algebra, even if they're otherwise ready.  They need those upper students not to have had their heads in algebra all year and therefore have a slightly lower average when tested on previous material if they're going to bring up the collective scores enough.

 

This approach is NOT what CC mandates or even suggests and it's definitely not happening everywhere.  But it is happening in some places and from the perspective of a school that's just trying to survive this nonsense, I get why it's happening.

[Roadrunner]

This approach is NOT what CC mandates or even suggests and it's definitely not happening everywhere. But it is happening in some places and from the perspective of a school that's just trying to survive this nonsense, I get why it's happening.

Yes, it always circles back to implementation, doesn't it? NCLB was also good intentioned and look at the mess we made out of it. :) it's not the standards, it's us. :)

I think our district is keeping the option of Algebra in 7th grade, but after reading your post, I am going to inquire a bit more.

[MinivanMom]

I've seen at least a couple of districts that have eliminated middle school algebra programs in order to concentrate resources on getting all kids up to CC level for those grades and also to ensure that students being tested will be practicing the material they're being tested on instead of algebra, even if they're otherwise ready.  They need those upper students not to have had their heads in algebra all year and therefore have a slightly lower average when tested on previous material if they're going to bring up the collective scores enough.

 

This approach is NOT what CC mandates or even suggests and it's definitely not happening everywhere.  But it is happening in some places and from the perspective of a school that's just trying to survive this nonsense, I get why it's happening.

 

Yes, this is what's happening here as well. They have eliminated all math acceleration at the elementary level and have quietly eliminated the previous middle school tracks that led to Algebra in 7th or 8th grade. The line given is that CC is so much more challenging that acceleration and multiple math tracks are no longer necessary. Involved, affluent parents have been hopping mad and have lobbied for personal exceptions. Many got their kids grandfathered in for elementary math acceleration - kids already accelerated may stay on that track if their parents request it, but there will be no acceleration for anyone in the future.

 

Many with rising 6th graders also got their kids into Common Core Math 7 (so they'll be on track for Pre-Algebra in 7th), but the district made their kids (who were identified as gifted in math and had already taken compacted 5th/6th grade math in elementary school) jump through all sorts of hoops including mandatory Saturday testing to get it. Some schools were not notifying any of the parents of gifted/accelerated kids about the testing. Kids whose parents weren't in the know and didn't come to testing were bumped off the accelerated track regardless of their gifted status or previous math grades and math scores. I would guess students who are poor or have low family support were hit hardest by this which is really sad.

 

Nobody has said that there will no longer be Algebra in 7th or 8th, but that seems to be the way it is headed. Up until last year our district required nearly all students to take Algebra by 8th, so this is a huge swing in the opposite direction. I can't believe more parents aren't reading the standards themselves and calling the district out on their nonsense, but I don't think everyone has realized what is going on yet. It's a huge mess and I feel so sorry for the kids and families caught in the middle of it.

 

[Roadrunner]

Our elementary school eliminated GATE program claiming CC was more than enough, in fact better, at differentiating instruction for gifted likes. They also said that given costs associated with CC implementation, there was no money for GATE (yet plenty of money for football field renovations).

[TCB]

The line given is that CC is so much more challenging that acceleration and multiple math tracks are no longer necessary.

And yet Jason Zimba, one of the authors of the CC math standards, clearly stated that the CC math standards will not prepare students adequately for selective colleges or for STEM fields. How does this match up with the above?

[Joker]

That's so strange about some districts cutting back or eliminating accelerated math due to CC. Our middle school actually added more accelerated classes to ensure those who needed them would receive them. It doesn't always work out. My oldest wasn't able to get Algebra I until this year in 8th grade because they only had two 7th grade classes last year. This year they've added to that so more 7th graders can take it earlier if they are ready. Dd will probably play catch up by taking Geometry over the summer, which the counselor told us is more than doable for her.