Ds (8) wants to read Lord of the flies

[Luanne]

This is actually a perfect example of my thinking people want their kids to grow up too soon.  There is no innocence left in childhood anymore.  As soon as they turn about 6 years old, people want them to grow and and learn to deal with the "real world".  I just don't understand why.  Kids are only kids for a short period of time and should be allowed to remain kids until it relaly is a need for them to grow up (age 8 is not it).

[beth83]

When do kids normally read it? Not at the age of 8. Not until at least high school and only for the not squeemish. I've never read it. I don't intend to. My life has been fine until now and I have no need to change it by reading something that will give me nightmares.

It was required reading freshman year of high school for me. It was the first book we read of the year, and all classes did a huge literature unit in it.

[Desert Strawberry]

I think it was assigned reading in 9th grade. I felt it was a little young for me at that time. I would have enjoyed it better at 12 than 14. But I was old for my age and was more interested in Orwell, Card, and Stephen King at that age.

 

I certainly didn't find it disturbing.  Maybe I had a rougher image of childhood than some. There is a bit of nongratuitous gore, but less than many works. Nothing the boys did was surprising or shocking to me. But then, I had read Go Ask Alice the year before, and I wasn't shocked by that either. Why was that on my reading list?

 

I find it highly insightful into the group dynamics of children, especially unsupervised boys. We also read A Separate Peace that year, which has similar themes and insights. 

 

That happens to be the year I began contemplating home schooling. I wonder if there's a connection.

[katilac]

When do kids normally read it?  Not at the age of 8.  Not until at least high school and only for the not squeemish.  I've never read it.  I don't intend to.  My life has been fine until now and I have no need to change it by reading something that will give me nightmares.

Not so. It is assigned reading in plenty of middle schools - it seems to vary a lot. I'm too lazy to go back and check, but I think some posters on this thread mentioned reading it that early. On another thread, some people were shocked that so many of us were assigned To Kill a Mockingbird in middle school (I read it in 7th grade).

[kiwik]

I guess we just have very different perspectives and experiences.

 

It seems to me that most children (and many adults) are most scared of imaginary beings that don't really exist. And are not so afraid of "reality."

 

I read LOTFs at 11, and slept fine. I thought the books was kind of funny. Shows how different people's reactions can be.

 

Bill

I am with you on this one - I can read Patricia Cornwall and other things involving murder and rape in bec but still occasionally get the shudders remembering the time I ill- advisedly read pet cemetary. I didn't much enjoy LotF when I was at school - I knew groups of kids or adults could revert to savages pretty quickly. I had read a lot of real life stuff where it happened by then. The people who had the strongest propensity's in that direction (we all have some degree) were too busy making other people's lives miserable to get the point anyway.

[Jan in SC]

I read LOtF in 7th grade. My oldest ds read it last summer between 6th and 7th and wasn't disturbed by it.

[Luanne]

Not so. It is assigned reading in plenty of middle schools - it seems to vary a lot. I'm too lazy to go back and check, but I think some posters on this thread mentioned reading it that early. On another thread, some people were shocked that so many of us were assigned To Kill a Mockingbird in middle school (I read it in 7th grade).

 

Just because the public schools assign it in middle school sometimes doesn't make it something a 12 year old should read.  Why do you think I homeschooled my daughter?  I know better what is appropriate for her and any school on the planet does.

[nmoira]

Just because the public schools assign it in middle school sometimes doesn't make it something a 12 year old should read.  Why do you think I homeschooled my daughter?  I know better what is appropriate for her and any school on the planet does.

 

Luanne, how do you know whether or not it is appropriate for a 12yo if you've never read it yourself?

[Spy Car]

Just because the public schools assign it in middle school sometimes doesn't make it something a 12 year old should read. Why do you think I homeschooled my daughter? I know better what is appropriate for her and any school on the planet does.

But you said earlier that you've never read Lord of the Flies. It is a classic work.

 

ETA (from Wikipedia):

 

In 2005 the novel was chosen by TIME magazine as one of the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to 2005. It was awarded a place on both lists of Modern Library 100 Best Novels, reaching number 41 on the editor's list, and 25 on the reader's list. In 2003, the novel was listed at number 70 on the BBC's survey The Big Read.

 

I read it in 6th Grade, as a personal choice, not as assigned reading. It definitely did not provoke nightmares. People have their own sensitivities, but for me LoTF is no big deal.

 

Bill

[nmoira]

But you said earlier that you've never read Lord of the Flies. It is a classic work.

 

I read it in 6th Grade, as a personal choice, not as assigned reading. It definitely did not provoke nightmares. People have there own sensitivities, but for me LoTF is no big deal.

 

 

I read it in 7th, also by choice, along with Nineteen Eighty-four and Brave New World (I did book reports on all three). Until we got to 8th (Never Cry Wolf!), school assigned novels were boring at best.

[Luanne]

But you said earlier that you've never read Lord of the Flies. It is a classic work.

 

ETA (from Wikipedia):

 

In 2005 the novel was chosen by TIME magazine as one of the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to 2005. It was awarded a place on both lists of Modern Library 100 Best Novels, reaching number 41 on the editor's list, and 25 on the reader's list. In 2003, the novel was listed at number 70 on the BBC's survey The Big Read.

 

I read it in 6th Grade, as a personal choice, not as assigned reading. It definitely did not provoke nightmares. People have their own sensitivities, but for me LoTF is no big deal.

 

Bill

 

Nothing to you, Bill, is a big deal.  I always check out what the book is about before reading it.  My daughter and I both get nightmares very easily.  Sorry, we can't all be as tough as you are.

[msrift]

My oldest wanted to read it around that age because he had heard someone reference it in conversation. I had some qualms but let him check it out of the library to read on his own. Honestly, I think he realized it was a little too above him as he quit reading it after just a few chapters. It will be on his assigned reading list in the coming years - probably 7-9th grade.

[Wheres Toto]

Interesting.  I was the opposite as a kid.  I read a lot of Stephen King as a kid.  If it was something like Pet Cemetery it didn't scare me.  I didn't think my pets were going to come back to life.  But, for example, Misery, freaked me out because it was believable to me.  It was something that could possibly happen.

 

I started reading Stephen King at 12 or 13 years old.  Pet Cemetery never disturbed me that much until I was a parent.  And it's only one scene - where the kid runs in front of the truck.  

 

I read Lord of the Flies in 5th or 6th grade.   I didn't find it that disturbing, although as someone who had been bullied, I didn't think it was unlikely that unsupervised kids would behave that way either.

 

If one of my kids shows an interest in reading it at a "young" age, I'd probably first judge how sensitive that particular kid is.  Neither of mine are particular sensitive (and just as an aside, my son does still believe in dragons and monsters so fairy tales wouldn't be much better.  I don't encourage the belief, he's just really hard to talk out of something he wants to believe in).  I would probably re-read it along with him/her, and discuss what they think of different parts, how it makes them feel, does it bother them, etc. but I wouldn't forbid it.

[Spy Car]

Nothing to you, Bill, is a big deal. I always check out what the book is about before reading it. My daughter and I both get nightmares very easily. Sorry, we can't all be as tough as you are.

It's a big deal to me that the Broncos are 4-0, but LoTF being scary? Not so much.

 

Bill

[Rosie_0801]

This is actually a perfect example of my thinking people want their kids to grow up too soon.  There is no innocence left in childhood anymore.  As soon as they turn about 6 years old, people want them to grow and and learn to deal with the "real world".  I just don't understand why.  Kids are only kids for a short period of time and should be allowed to remain kids until it relaly is a need for them to grow up (age 8 is not it).

 

Perhaps people have different definitions of what "the real world" means. 

[NASDAQ]

Just because the public schools assign it in middle school sometimes doesn't make it something a 12 year old should read.  Why do you think I homeschooled my daughter?  I know better what is appropriate for her and any school on the planet does.

 

If your daughter is particularly sensitive then . . . well, you should make decisions accordingly. I have a seven-year-old who is particularly sensitive. Nightmares all the time.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

The thing is, many of these books should be disturbing.  I don't mean in a having nightmares way necessarily.  But the authors meant the theme to be disturbing.  I realize that some books can be read over and over and you get different layers of meaning, but some books lose their impact if they are read when the reader can't understand the theme and really get the impact that the author intended from the subject matter.  This, in my opinion, is one of those books.  

[Spy Car]

The thing is, many of these books should be disturbing.  I don't mean in a having nightmares way necessarily.  But the authors meant the theme to be disturbing.  I realize that some books can be read over and over and you get different layers of meaning, but some books lose their impact if they are read when the reader can't understand the theme and really get the impact that the author intended from the subject matter.  This, in my opinion, is one of those books.

I don't think this book is difficult to understand, in the least. And that it is better approached young, so it is less likely approached with the adult tendency to project "interpretations" on to the book. So it stands for itself instead of being torn apart with Freudian, Marxian, or some other post-modern analysis, and is not turned into some sort of religious allegory (and burdened with "original sin," garden of Eden, and Christ figures). Such overlays cheapen (rather than enhance) the experience of the novel standing on its own terms, at least for me.

 

Bill

[Melissa in Australia]

I read it in year 8.

 I am one of those persons who were prone to nightmares. I did not find this book disturbing, but the book The Birds by Daphne du Maurier that I read about the same time gave me nightmares for years.

 I would not stop my children reading it. Unfortunately my children are all reluctant readers and will only read books  form the booklist (form WTM) I give them each year. I would so love to have a bookworm child (sigh)

[SorrelZG]

I read it in 11th grade, I think. I don't recall a great deal about it so I went searching for a summary to jog my memory and I think now that it would be far more disturbing to me now that I'm older, and specifically a mother, than it was in my youth (if it was at all, I don't recall being disturbed).

[grantmeawish]

I finished the book and I am not traumatized. You all had me scared, but then i also enjoyed stephan king as a kid. I didn't find it disturbing at all but expected. It's sitting in the return pile and I caught ds trying to walk off with it. I still am going to have him wait a couple more years because be does get nightmares from books, however That doesn't stop him from reading scary books.

[Haiku]

I would so love to have a bookworm child (sigh)

 

Be careful what you wish for ... and all that. I have a bookworm child. It comes with its own problems.

[Luanne]

But you said earlier that you've never read Lord of the Flies. It is a classic work.

 

ETA (from Wikipedia):

 

In 2005 the novel was chosen by TIME magazine as one of the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to 2005. It was awarded a place on both lists of Modern Library 100 Best Novels, reaching number 41 on the editor's list, and 25 on the reader's list. In 2003, the novel was listed at number 70 on the BBC's survey The Big Read.

 

I read it in 6th Grade, as a personal choice, not as assigned reading. It definitely did not provoke nightmares. People have their own sensitivities, but for me LoTF is no big deal.

 

Bill

 

I don't have to read a book to know what it is about.  I looked up what it was about before I decided to read it or not read it.  I'm not saying no one should read it.  I would not recommend it to my daughter either and she is an adult (25 years old).  Just because a bunch of people call it a classic and give it an award, doesn't impress me.  I look at what is the content of the book and make my own decision about whether it is read worthy or not.  You could probably read just about anything and not get nightmares.  What you seem to not understand is that people are different from each other.  Just because one person can handle it doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE can handle it.

[nmoira]

I don't have to read a book to know what it is about.  I looked up what it was about before I decided to read it or not read it.  I'm not saying no one should read it.  I would not recommend it to my daughter either and she is an adult (25 years old).  Just because a bunch of people call it a classic and give it an award, doesn't impress me.  I look at what is the content of the book and make my own decision about whether it is read worthy or not.  You could probably read just about anything and not get nightmares.  What you seem to not understand is that people are different from each other.  Just because one person can handle it doesn't automatically mean EVERYONE can handle it.

 

I'm confused. Are you saying you won't read it because you are sensitive and you think the subject will give you nightmares? I get that. I'll never read another novel by Cormac McCarthy because the violence is too much for me.

 

It's the bolded part that confuses me. Nobody is saying YOU must read LOTF, or any other book, but your personal level of comfort is not really a gauge of literary merit. On more than this occasion you seem to have expressed hostility towards books deemed great or worthwhile literature by a "bunch of people," especially award-winning literature, when you judge the book might make you uncomfortable. I admit I'm left wondering what you will read.

 

----

Back to the OP:

FWIW, Common Sense Media says 12 and up for LOTF, apparently on the basis of the violence (which is little more than a light comedic romp compared to McCarthy  :lol: ).

[Luanne]

It's a big deal to me that the Broncos are 4-0, but LoTF being scary? Not so much.

 

Bill

 

The Broncos being 4-0 is just plain awesome.  The fact that they have blown out every team they have faced is even better.  Good save, Bill! :D

[Luanne]

I'm confused. Are you saying you won't read it because you are sensitive and you think the subject will give you nightmares? I get that. I'll never read another novel by Cormac McCarthy because the violence is too much for me.

 

It's the bolded part that confuses me. Nobody is saying YOU must read LOTF, or any other book, but your personal level of comfort is not really a gauge of literary merit. On more than this occasion you seem to have expressed hostility towards books deemed great or worthwhile literature by a "bunch of people," especially award-winning literature, when you judge the book might make you uncomfortable. I admit I'm left wondering what you will read.

 

----

Back to the OP:

FWIW, Common Sense Media says 12 and up for LOTF, apparently on the basis of the violence (which is little more than a light comedic romp compared to McCarthy  :lol: ).

 

No one may be saying I must read it, but a lot of people are acting like they think everyone should read it.  I have found lots of books that were good to read.  I prefer to go out on my own and find books and not ones that are recommended by certain lists.  I have found tons of good books that way.

[nmoira]

No one may be saying I must read it, but a lot of people are acting like they think everyone should read it. I have found lots of books that were good to read. I prefer to go out on my own and find books and not ones that are recommended by certain lists. I have found tons of good books that way.

It's not an inappropriate book to be assigned for school, if that's what you mean, and it's great discussion fodder whether you buy its view of human nature or not. I certainly was assigned material I'd rather not have read; As for Me and My House[/a] tops the list, but I'd read even it again if my only other choice was a compilation of poems by Bliss Carman. We don't always get a choice.

[Melissa in Australia]

:crying: 

Be careful what you wish for ... and all that. I have a bookworm child. It comes with its own problems.

I was a bookworm child :laugh: . when I started homeschooling I spent many $100s on a huge library of books. they all sit on the shelf only read by me.  I have to force and bribe my children to read- it is so down heartening

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think this book is difficult to understand, in the least. And that it is better approached young, so it is less likely approached with the adult tendency to project "interpretations" on to the book. So it stands for itself instead of being torn apart with Freudian, Marxian, or some other post-modern analysis, and is not turned into some sort of religious allegory (and burdened with "original sin," garden of Eden, and Christ figures). Such overlays cheapen (rather than enhance) the experience of the novel standing on its own terms, at least for me.

 

Bill

Of course the novel should stand on it's own.  I just don't think the book was originally meant for young children and I don't think they have the life experience necessary to read the book the way the author intended it to be read, whether the understand the gist of the story line or not.  But really, it depends on why you want to read (or assign) the book.  If it is simply to read a good yarn, then it doesn't really matter when  you read it.  But if it is to interact with the book on a deeper level then I think it is best to wait.  

[NASDAQ]

It's not an inappropriate book to be assigned for school, if that's what you mean, and it's great discussion fodder whether you buy its view of human nature or not. I certainly was assigned material I'd rather not have read; As for Me and My House[/a] tops the list, but I'd read even it again if my only other choice was a compilation of poems by Bliss Carman. We don't always get a choice.

 

First, are you Canadian?

 

Second, what didn't you like about As For Me and My House?

[Luanne]

Be careful what you wish for ... and all that. I have a bookworm child. It comes with its own problems.

 

I've had to take books away from my daughter to get her to do the other things that need to be done.  I've also used it as a way to motivate her.  "If you don't put down that book...."  LOL

[nmoira]

First, are you Canadian?

 

Second, what didn't you like about As For Me and My House?

Yes. :)

 

As For Me and My House doesn't have any disturbing content, but it is the most boring book is ever been asked to read. I clearly remember my teacher talking about the genius of using repetitive imagery to show the monotony and drudgery of the couple's everyday lives: How we managed to talk for an hour about the man's paintings, the main symbol of their drudgery and an obligatory CanLit nod to landscape as destiny, I don't know. But it was painful.

[katilac]

Just because the public schools assign it in middle school sometimes doesn't make it something a 12 year old should read.  Why do you think I homeschooled my daughter?  I know better what is appropriate for her and any school on the planet does.

You are responding to an argument I never made. I did not say that a 12-yr-old *should* read it; I simply stated that it is quite often assigned in middle school. It was in response to your post stating that kids don't normally read it until high school; that is simply incorrect, whether one agrees with it or not.If you think that when public schools assign it is completely irrelevant, you might not want to bring it up.

 

 

<snip> I think my favorite book at that age was Dinky Hocker Shoots Smack.  Anyone familiar with that?

 Overall, I consider it a good choice for junior high level, and was a must read for my son.

Ah, yes, who could forget Dinky Hocker, later transformed into one of the classic Afterschool Specials?

 

Everyone talks about how kids 'know so much' these days, but, for those growing up in the 1970s, it was routine to spend afternoons watching young characters drink, do drugs, hitchhike, kill themselves in car wrecks, kill other people in car wrecks, drink some more, do drugs some more, get pregnant, get bullied, get raped, attempt suicide, drop out of school, get kidnapped, get STDs, get abused, get arrested . . .