Violin Lessons - What should I know going in?

[Mama Anna]

Dd6 wants to learn violin. I know a great teacher (don't know her fees, though) and have access to a student-level instrument, probably of the correct size. Dh and I both have music degrees and he's been teaching dd6 piano for a couple years now, so it's not as if we have no clue. However, I was a band geek/vocalist growing up and I have very little experience with strings.

 

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be?

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.) How much do the books tend to cost?

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises?

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

 

Thanks!!

 

Mama Anna

[Missouri Okie]

My kids' violin teacher charges $25/half hour. He also conducts a monthly group class at no additional charge.

 

My son has been using his violin for 3 years and has not moved up yet.

 

We have not had to replace horse-hair. We've bought one set of strings. I can't remember how much they cost.

 

We use the Suzuki method. I've also recently heard of the Mark O'Connor Method. You can read about it here.

 

The Suzuki books, including the necessary CD, are around $15 on Amazon. It takes about a year to go through a book.

 

HTH!

[jennynd]

DS had a teacher for over 4 years and she charged 25/ half hr. we just switched to a better qualified teacher and he charges 30 / half hr.

We have moved from 1/8 to 1/4, 1/2 in 3 years span. He is 9 now

We have not yet replace hair.

 

[Sarah CB]

I have three kids who began on violin. Two still play, one switched to cello after 3 years on violin.

 

Instrument sizing is important. It's better to have an instrument that is too small than it is to have one that is slightly too big. I've had violins last us one year and violins last us three years - it just depends on how fast the kids grow.

 

Know that at six, in order to have good progress, you should probably count on attending lessons and taking notes, and then being the practice partner at home. There are many picky little posture details that will result in a beautiful sound, ease of playing, and lack of injuries later on that seem inconsequential in the early years. It's hard for a six year old to learn how to hold a violin, hold a bow, have good feet, relaxed shoulders, soft bowing hand, a bowing arm that opens and closes (instead of one that does the chicken dance), violin hand that doesn't look like a pancake, etc., etc., etc.

 

In Suzuki, the kids begin playing real pieces as soon as they're ready for a real violin. All of my kids began on box violins and we were able to learn a lot about posture, caring for the instrument, rhythms, etc. before beginning on a real violin. Mine sounded musical in the first few songs - but mine were a lot younger when yours started so it took us a lot longer to actually get past Twinkle. At six, you'll likely have much quicker progress, but you'll have to really watch the posture and positioning.

 

Replacing the strings and hair really depend on how much you're practicing and how serious you are. We replace strings a couple times a year and we buy fairly expensive strings. Good strings are important for good sound - even for a new beginner. Dominant strings are a good standard string for younger beginners. Even for young kids, I change the strings at least once a year. You want to give them the best chance possible to sound great :) We've only ever replaced the bow hair on one of our bows. It was $50. I'm told it should be done more regularly - especially for how much the violin is being played but there never seems like a good time to go a few days without practicing (we don't have a back-up bow).

 

Community has been really important to my kids. Since they were brand-new to the instrument they've played in groups and some of their best friends are fellow strings players.

[StephanieZ]

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

 

45-60/hr

 

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

 

About 18 mos on average

 

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair?

 

Hair - Not often. Maybe yearly. Usually can just use one bow/ hair per instrument size. Small bows are so cheap that it is often just as cheap to buy a new bow.

 

Strings - q6 mos or so, more often when they are older and playing more hours. 50ish per set for good strings. Keep a spare set on hand for breakage.

 

What would typical costs be?

 

$20ish for hair

50ish for strings

 

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.)

 

Suzuki, traditional, or quasi-Suzuki

 

How much do the books tend to cost?

 

20-50/yr for young students. 50++ for older students if they are learning lots of different works or their teacher is just wild about making you buy a $20 book of pieces for a single piece . . .

 

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises?

 

Suzuki begins with songs very early. Whether a child is musical or not ever is 100% individual. My youngest was immersed in music from birth due to her older siblings music studies. So, she was musical from toddlerhood and played musically as soon as she had the physical coordination to play at all. Now she composes, etc, very well at age ten. Other kids study for years, and can crank out intermediate pieces while sounding like a machine, with no musicality at all. Listening to good music really helps develop musicality.

 

 

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

 

Expect to spend another 50/yr or so for random weird music items like special chin rest, special shoulder rests, etc.

 

Also, expect some recital fees, $20-100/yr to pay for the accompanist, etc.

 

Also, anticipate costs for summmer workshops, festivals, etc. 100-2000+/yr easily, depending on your willingness to pay . . .

 

Must practice every day. If you eat that day, you should practice that day.

 

I love Suzuki for young children. Positive feedback and joy are key ingredients to making music happen for kids, IME. Whatever style of teaching, make sure it is positive and fun.

 

Buy as nice an instrument as you can afford ASAP to develop their ear, etc. It is hard to learn what sounds right if you are playing on a cardboard box.

 

Enjoy!

[mommymilkies]

Dd6 wants to learn violin. I know a great teacher (don't know her fees, though) and have access to a student-level instrument, probably of the correct size. Dh and I both have music degrees and he's been teaching dd6 piano for a couple years now, so it's not as if we have no clue. However, I was a band geek/vocalist growing up and I have very little experience with strings.

 

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be?

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.) How much do the books tend to cost?

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises?

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

 

Thanks!!

 

Mama Anna

 

 

It is $330 a semester (4 months) for Suzuki violin here. That's for a 30 minute lesson, group lesson, and parent class per week. It was $65 for the workshop this year (optional) and we don't pay for accompanists with performances through the program, etc. and most teachers will help you find inexpensive foam to use as rests, especially when they're young and growing!

 

Violin sizes differ by child, and it really depends so ,ugh on how fast your child grows. My 12 yo just moved up to a 3/4 but my 5 yo is still good on her 1/10. Strings are inexpensive to replace. Usually once a year if you don't break any.

 

I really prefer Suzuki as I took classes with a non-Suzuki teacher myself for 2 years and I've learned more from watching my girls in their Suzuki program than I ever learned. But the teacher is key. Of course you can find wonderful teachers who aren't Suzuki.

[Arcadia]

What we learn the hard way was that if my kids did not release the tension on the bow, the cost of rehairing the bow is high enough to just buy a replacement. Also it was tough to find a shoulder rest that my two sensitive kids are comfortable with. Our beginner violins are the cheap palatino ones and the pegs are awful even though the sound is okay.

When switching from piano playing to violin playing, one difficulty my kid had was with co-ordination. On the piano you see the keys so both hands playing was still easy. With violin, you don't see the fingerboard that well so it was harder for him to place his fingers in the correct position which led to frustration. Secondly my "lazybones" hates standing to play violin. His first choice was cello but we could not find the right size so we tried him on violin.

[thebacabunch]

Rent a good quality violin instead of buying one. There is a big difference in sound between a 200 and 2000 dollar instrument. We paid 21 dollars a month for an excellent violin with insurance. The difference in sound was astounding. Also, have the teacher measure your dc before getting an instrument.

 

I really loved suzuki lessons.

 

It will be a whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile before dc sounds good on violin to anyone but mom. That is ok. Those "pepperoni pizza" a to e practices will haunt me in my dreams, hahahahahaha!

[lewelma]

Know that at six, in order to have good progress, you should probably count on attending lessons and taking notes, and then being the practice partner at home.

 

I completely agree. I have known MANY kids to start violin and the ONLY ones who have kept with it had an adult either learning along with them or an adult who already played. The first 1.5 years are really tough and it appears that very very little progress is made until after that point.

 

Also, your student needs to be willing to do a lot of work on posture/position. My son's first teacher did not focus on this, and he had to do 1.5 YEARS of exercises only before the new teacher was willing to allow him to play again, his position was that bad. On the good side, he is now an excellent player.

 

Ruth in NZ

[violamama]

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

$45-$65 per hour, $20-$35 per half hour. Some charge more for groups and recitals. The recitals really should be something your teacher arranges regularly, and groups too if at all possible. HUGE difference, as others have said. Also, if you have the chance to meet other string parents that is very helpful. You might read Suzuki's Nurtured by Love as a place to start.

 

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

Totally depends, as others have said. PLEASE let your teacher help you choose the right size, rather than going to a shop, unless it's one your teacher recommends!

 

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be?

Usually student fractional bows are best replaced rather than rehaired. They're worth almost nothing, and rehairing is about $50. Strings= once a year.

You need a stand (and it NEEDS to be at the height of the child's eyes, always set up, and even if it's just the lesson notes & assignments you can get in the habit of looking at what the teacher wants each week, a notebook, some sheet music, a metronome, and stickers are very nice to have on hand though you likely know that from piano and such.

 

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.) How much do the books tend to cost?

There are many great methods: Sassmanshaus is awesome but not as common. Suzuki is useful for the automatic ability to play stuff with others from the start in groups because you all know the same tunes, and for the quality of the teacher training and curriculum. Many excellent teachers make an amalgamation of curriculums centered around Suzuki stuff. There are some good fiddle methods, too, but most are not well leveled and are weak for total beginners.

 

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises?

It takes a long time for PARENTS to be pleased. Kids are almost endlessly patient with a teacher who helps them see their progress and gives appropriately challenging assignments. One very VERY typical parent error in lessons is when the teacher says, "Yes, Johnny, that was excellent and you really had wonderful rhythm just like we were working toward." and the parent jumps in with "But why is it so scratchy on the E-string", or "But his wrist was tight and his thumb was straight" or a million other options. I imagine you know this already, but with strings the early progress is just SO different.

 

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

You should plan to be in the lesson, and to focus on it in order to directly help your child practice for the next three years. I'm not talking about some tiger parenting, but it's very difficult for kids to isolate parts of their body in the way that will be required. They will have so much to think about, and your job is to help them practice specifically how and what the teacher has said. You should prepare your kid for this, if he/she is used to more autonomy in practicing.

 

Trust the teacher and take your time, focusing ONLY on what the teacher has mentioned that week. This is exactly why having other string player parents is helpful, as is seeing the kids progress in groups. Also, consistent practice is just so incredibly important for strings. My son can get away with a few crummy or nonexistent practice days on piano and still sound pretty much okay. With violin, there are sooooo many neurological connections being forged and so many things to control and coordinate in order to make even a single note. I've come from the other side of your fence, having only ever played strings and now having a son play piano. It is still kind of shocking to me that he has played through several full books of tunes in the first year, and we aren't even very good at consistent practice yet.

 

Another book I highly recommend is Ed Sprunger's "Helping Parents Practice".

 

Enjoy, it's totally, completely worth it!

[NASDAQ]

Suzuki at the Academy of Music here is $700 a term. That's for a private lesson, group class, and mandatory Kodaly or Orff extra class.

 

You have to attend the lessons, take notes, and lead her practices.

 

I would let the teacher size her for violin. My small 7 yo plays a 1/8 cello. My guess would be your six-year-old will play a 1/4 violin, will play 1/2 by 9, 3/4 at 11, and full size in high school.

[jennynd]

 

 

Also, your student needs to be willing to do a lot of work on posture/position. My son's first teacher did not focus on this, and he had to do 1.5 YEARS of exercises only before the new teacher was willing to allow him to play again, his position was that bad. On the good side, he is now an excellent player.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

This is exactly same thing we are going through right now. DS's pervious teacher did not focus on position and the new teacher is trying to correct him now. I really regret that I didn't switch the teacher sooner.

[Greenmama2]

Lots of informative responses already & we are in another country so I won't comment on cost but do expect to be moving sizes somewhat regularly. My daughter has gone through the sizes from 1/16 to 1/4 in four years.

[Donna]

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

Fees vary widely depending on the location, lesson length, and teacher experience. My dd started with a 30 min lessons at 3yo and progressed every couple years as her attention span and amount of material needing to be covered increased. She did two 60 min lessons for a couple years but we needed to decrease costs so now she is doing a 90 min lesson that nearly always turns into 1 hour 45 min or more. When dd started at a small school we paid $30 for a 30 min. lesson then when she moved up to a more experienced teacher it increased to $50 for 30 min and has gone up as her lesson time increased.

 

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

Like others have said, about a year to 18 months here though dd is in a 3/4 size and it was a little bit of a stretch when she got it but she moved up for competition/"sound" reasons. She will probably be in it for a couple years or more because she does not grow very quickly and next will be a full size instrument.

 

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be?

String replacement depends on time of use. So a kid who practices 30 min a day might need to change once a year but a kid who practices 2-4 hours a day needs new strings every 3 months or so. We use Dominants and the cost is about $50 a set. We get a bow rehair about every year so if dd moves up an instrument size in a year, no need to rehair bow but if she is on the same instrument for 18 months, we'll rehair once. Bow rehair is about $50 here (near Philly).

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.)

Yes, Suzuki, Mark O'Connor method, traditional method, or some teachers use a combination of methods.

 

How much do the books tend to cost?

Suzuki books on www.sharmusic.com are about $15 each. I have been buying a lot of sheet music lately and each piece I buy is a different price. If I get the urtext versions, they tend to be more pricey.

 

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercise?

Varies widely. With the Suzuki method a beginner learns using "real" pieces so in a month or so of beginning exercises a beginner should be playing "real" songs/pieces. An older beginner, with music experience, will most likely progress faster than the average 3yo beginner. It really all depends on how much one practices.

 

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

Strings camps are fun and Suzuki camps generally have classes for Pre-Twinklers on up. It is nice to include a social aspect to strings training. Later on orchestra and ensembles can be added. Other kinds of music can be studied....fiddling is all the rage in our house.

 

At least at first, be involved in lessons and practice...take notes on what the teacher wants covered, technique issues to master, etc....make sure bad habits do not develop as they are difficult to break. Have your child listen to music daily especially what she is working on...progress is quicker that way and having a good ear is very useful.

 

Also, beware...if your child takes to it, it can take over your life.

[cdrumm4448]

Dd6 wants to learn violin. I know a great teacher (don't know her fees, though) and have access to a student-level instrument, probably of the correct size. Dh and I both have music degrees and he's been teaching dd6 piano for a couple years now, so it's not as if we have no clue. However, I was a band geek/vocalist growing up and I have very little experience with strings.

 

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be?

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.) How much do the books tend to cost?

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises?

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

 

Thanks!!

 

Mama Anna

 

 

We pay $24 per hour. I have two kids that take lessons.

It is usually a year or two between upsizes.

Strings get replaced when they start to unravel (or snap when your mother tightens it too much). They cost us $50 per instrument. We are in a 1/10 and my son is just going into a 3/4.

I only know of Suzuki or traditional teaching. Suzuki books and cds are cheap and can be obtained through Amazon. We also use notereading books that are also cheap.

My son is finishing book 2 and my daughter is finishing book 1. It took my son years to finish book 1. He was a typical distractible young boy and we didn't have the best practice habits. Now, we practice every day, if possible. We listen to our working piece 10 times a day. I actually made an Excel spreadsheet that I print out for practice and they check off what they have completed: tonalization exercises, drills, scales, working piece, repertoire review and notereading pages completed. Takes at least 30 for my son.

 

ETA: We also participate in group lessons that are one hour a week. Monthly tuition for the group is $35 per student. Smaller violins tend to be cheaper. My son has selected a Euro Concert for his upsize, and everything (environmentally controlled case, upgraded bow and instrument) is $1300 without tax. But, it all seems cheap compared to dance.

[Mama Anna]

Wow!! I really appreciate all your replies and help! I'm especially glad to know about the less-obvious costs that might come up in the future - we'll have to seriously consider as to whether or not we can afford this.

 

It's amazing how one simple decision can enter you into an entirely new world with new vocabulary, new aspirations, technical knowledge, a new budget, etc.

 

Thanks again!

 

Mama Anna

[Sarah CB]

 

 

No kidding--I just watched dd unwrap $40,000 (yes, that many zeros) worth of violins on trial. Ack!

 

Eeek! That's crazy!

 

Ds is on a $3000 violin - it's his first full size. Unfortunately, he's still got a 3/4 bow and he's using an old case we had hanging around so it needs to be replaced, too. I just don't want to buy a new bow yet :( I cringe when I watch him walking around with the violin; although he's a lot better now than when he was little. Our 1/16, 1/8, and 1/4 size violins all have various dings and scrapes on them from being well-used by little boys.

 

And don't even get me started on the cello...

 

But, $40,000 worth of instruments? Wow!

[Donna]

I am so not looking forward to purchasing a full size violin. We have quite a lot invested in dd's 3/4 size so hopefully we will find a full size that is acceptable to her at the same violin shop and be able to get the full price of the 3/4 applied to the full size. If not....I'm not quite sure what we'll do.

 

I also know there is going to come a day in the very near future when she'll want a different sounding instrument for her classical music vs. her fiddling. Margaret in CO....an outdoor fiddle sounds like a good idea as well since she plays a number of festivals under tents and an expensive classical violin would not be the best thing for that either. Then she wants a good BAM case to go along with a full size fiddle for air travel especially. Bleh!!!

[violamama]

I would like one of these for outdoor & large group teaching gigs:

http://www.luisandclark.com/?product=1097-2

 

They sound pretty good, actually. I would play one. That's saying something, I'm a complete unabashed snob about instruments.

 

Re: airlines. Supposedly our union has pushed through and act of congress that would compel airlines to make carry-on exceptions for instruments, effective in 2014. I'll believe it when I see it, so I often recommend these to traveling students:

http://www.gostrings.com/hiovvica20fr.html?cmp=googleproducts&kw=hiovvica20fr&gclid=CMWw_M7ImbYCFcc-MgodcmsAnw

 

... and a pvc pipe specially fitted with sponges inside for the bow. Or a bow case, whichever fits your personality.

[violamama]

Dd has had a BAM for a number of years but just bought a Jaeger Prestige--she commented today that she loves the German engineering. For example, the case is shaped so the lid stays up, unlike the BAM. She says to only look at the Prestige as the other Jaeger cases are made in China. It was not cheap.

 

I've used Gewa (same company, I believe all Euro made) for the past 15 years for my viola which is like my second heart. I love Gewa! I've thought about getting a tricked out Musafia, but they are so stinkin' heavy.

 

But for my teaching violin, and serious violin students, I do see the benefit of using a travel-sized case with a separate bow holder. I wish they made viola versions.

[cdrumm4448]

 

This is exactly same thing we are going through right now. DS's pervious teacher did not focus on position and the new teacher is trying to correct him now. I really regret that I didn't switch the teacher sooner.

 

This also happened to us. When we went to a new teacher (one who didn't cancel half of the lessons) we spent a YEAR correcting bad habits before we were allowed to proceed. Difficult at the time, but so worth it. My kids have the best posture now.

[cdrumm4448]

Before I forget, you will also want to consider attending an institute for additional training. We attend Suzuki Family Camp at Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp in MI. It's great! It's also one of the cheaper institutes.

[Donna]

We have been able to carry on her instrument when flying without a problem so far (flown 7 times...4 times overseas and 3 times in the US) but I hear horror stories all the time from touring musicians.

 

A carbon fiber violin....hmmmm, something to think about for those outdoor in humid weather gigs.

 

Margaret---How does the Jaeger Prestige do in the weight department? I know the BAM cases are supposed to be light but incredibly durable which is the main reason we'd want one.

 

One more question...but I will make a s/o on the chat board rather than take over this thread.

[Sarah CB]

Before I forget, you will also want to consider attending an institute for additional training. We attend Suzuki Family Camp at Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp in MI. It's great! It's also one of the cheaper institutes.

 

 

I second this. The highlight of the summer for us is the Suzuki institute we've been attending - this will be our 8th year there. Many of the kids return year after year so it's something the kids look forward to socially as well. We branched out about three years ago and began attending a more traditional strings program as well. They make so much progress with summer programs and they have so much fun doing it.

[Runningmom80]

My DS does Suzuki double bass, but a lot of the no will still apply.

 

What is a typical lesson fee in your area? I think we pay $30 a week? We pay by he semester, I'd have to do some math. ;)

 

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument? Again, we have a bass, but in our Suzuki parent class, they said 2-3 years. We rent DS' bass.

 

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be? We have had a bass for two years, and haven't had to replace either,

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.) we do suzuki,

How much do the books tend to cost? The Suzuki books are inexpensive, 7-10 dollars

 

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises? My DS it took about a month before he was playing a little song and feeling like he was really "doing" it. Strings are hard, and Suzuki moves pretty slow, IMO, so YMMV

 

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of? Not that I can think of! Especially since you and your H have a music background. :)

[Mama Anna]

I just want to point out that it really depends on what your goals are for your child. I think you can get enjoyment out of learning violin without keeping it in the back of your mind you need top of the line or $40,000 violins or whatever.

 

Good point - thanks, WendyK! I'm not really having visions of dd ending up on the stage as a professional. I want her to be able to express herself musically in her own way (differently from her sisters) and maybe feel comfortable playing in a church-like atmosphere.

 

However, my personality is such that I don't like to start a project if I don't think I'll be able to finish it "properly" (whatever that may mean) and I prefer to plan things out so that they can be finished "properly." Homeschooling hasn't taken it all out of me yet, but I'm gettin' better! :)

 

I just want to make sure we're not going to go to be gamboling along happily only to be blind-sided by some huge unexpected cost (like a moderate quality, full-sized instrument, I guess).

 

Again, I appreciate all the responses!

 

Mama Anna

[Donna]

I just want to make sure we're not going to go to be gamboling along happily only to be blind-sided by some huge unexpected cost (like a moderate quality, full-sized instrument, I guess).

 

 

I don't know that you can be fully prepared in terms of knowing what to expect cost-wise. Everything is so variable and depends in large part on your child's interest...mostly interest in practicing. Reading the above, I just wanted to add that there are scholarship opportunities, grants, and performance opportunities that can help with the costs if your child gets into it more than you think you can afford.

 

When I started my dd, she had asked to learn violin and my thinking was that she would take her 30 min. lesson and practice a bit every day and would learn to play well enough to play something here or there. I had no idea what we were getting into and at each new "step" in the process, I find we are able to do more than I initially could have imagined because there is help available. There have been scholarships for orchestra and camps and grants she has received to help with costs of new instruments plus dd has paid performances or competition winnings that assist with costs. We have also had to re-arrange our priorities, down-size our home, and do without sometimes but none of those things have been deal breakers for us because dd works hard and does her part so we are willing to help her see where it takes her.

 

It has really been a gradual process....if someone had told me 7 years ago what I'd be doing now for my child's music education, I may have run the other way screaming or at least thought they were crazy to suggest such things were possible.

[The Way of My People]

We pay $25 for a 30 minute lesson once a week. About half of that time is spent with my four year-old, and half of the time is spent with me. Our teacher insists that the parent take lessons, too, until the child is at least six, if the parent doesn't already know how to play the violin. I was annoyed by this at first, but I'm kind of enjoying learning it now (I learned piano as a kid).

 

One thing to keep in mind is that progress is SLOW if your child is younger than 8-10, especially if you have a very attentive teacher and you're using the Suzuki method. We spent many weeks with my son learning to hold a box violin. And then many weeks learning to hold a real violin. And then many weeks learning to hold a bow. He's only now just beginning to play a few basic rhythms on one string of the violin. We practice every day. I'm surprised my son hasn't given up in frustration - playing the violin is SO MUCH HARDER than the piano - but he keeps practicing and showing (very slow) improvement.

[LMD]

Donna - can I just say that I love your blog. My DC & I just watched through your DD's performances on your latest post and they were very inspired! She's fantastic!

[violamama]

There have been scholarships for orchestra and camps and grants she has received to help with costs of new instruments plus dd has paid performances or competition winnings that assist with costs.

 

That's awesome! Way to go- both of you! I have such fond memories of my parents' support for my music stuff, and I bet your kids will too.

 

When I was in jr high & through high school, my mom helped me start my first small business as a string quartet manager. A local schmancy (well, as fancy as my town got anyway) restaurant let us play Mozart quartets & some pops stuff every week during their Sunday brunch. They didn't pay us a lot, but we did get a free meal and we were allowed to give out our quartet's flyers. Between that and posting our info at community boards and with every church & traveling officiant in town, we had gigs almost every weekend. It really added up, and it was a great window into working with & for others in a professional capacity. The quartet I started in the late 80's still works in my hometown and even has a couple of the same personnel.

 

I did a more grown-up version of that in every place I lived after that (even overseas), all through college. It was easier than teaching when I needed more of my weekday/night hours for practicing or rehearsals or auditions.

 

The Rotarians, Elks, small music shops and folks like that used to sometimes sponsor me for festivals, too, and might have resources for you.

[Donna]

Donna - can I just say that I love your blog. My DC & I just watched through your DD's performances on your latest post and they were very inspired! She's fantastic!

 

Thanks...glad you like it!

[Sarah CB]

 

When I was in jr high & through high school, my mom helped me start my first small business as a string quartet manager. A local schmancy (well, as fancy as my town got anyway) restaurant let us play Mozart quartets & some pops stuff every week during their Sunday brunch. They didn't pay us a lot, but we did get a free meal and we were allowed to give out our quartet's flyers. Between that and posting our info at community boards and with every church & traveling officiant in town, we had gigs almost every weekend. It really added up, and it was a great window into working with & for others in a professional capacity. The quartet I started in the late 80's still works in my hometown and even has a couple of the same personnel.

 

 

How fun is that! Ds (12) plays in a piano trio and they had a couple of small gigs last year that were unpaid. This year they have a couple of paid gigs - it's pretty exciting for them.

 

I'm amazed at how much ds is learning, musically, through his trio rehearsals and performances. Plus, it's been really cool to watch the friendships grow between the three kids. Last year they made it to provincials and they had so much fun both in the festival and at the campground we stayed at.

 

It's another aspect of music that I had no idea about that is proving to be a really positive thing for ds.

[thebacabunch]

I still suggest renting a quality violin. We rented a Jay Haide violin that was lovely. I don't suggest renting a cheap student violin but a good quality violin from a reputable dealer. We rented from Ifshin violins and they mailed it to us. My daughter chose to quit violin and I am so glad that we didn't own an instrument. We would have bought her a good violin when she needed a full sized instrument if she had stuck with it.

 

It takes a special kid and parent to be succesful with violin. I can't think of a more challenging instrument to learn. It doesn't sound good for a good long time.

 

My dh had teachers smack his fingers with rulers or put thumb tacs on his instruments to keep his fingering correct. I have heard of teachers who still do this (yikes).

 

I don't regret our years playing ( my dd switched to guitar and is well ahead of the game for having played violin).

[violamama]

 

My dh had teachers smack his fingers with rulers or put thumb tacs on his instruments to keep his fingering correct. I have heard of teachers who still do this (yikes).

 

 

Geeze louise, what kind of crap teacher does that? Glad your dh didn't decide music was pointless all around, poor dude!

[Donna]

I still suggest renting a quality violin. We rented a Jay Haide violin that was lovely. I don't suggest renting a cheap student violin but a good quality violin from a reputable dealer. We rented from Ifshin violins and they mailed it to us. My daughter chose to quit violin and I am so glad that we didn't own an instrument. We would have bought her a good violin when she needed a full sized instrument if she had stuck with it.

 

Some violin shops have trade in policies where the full price of the first violin (minus new strings and bow rehair--about $100) goes toward the next size violin. My dd started with an inexpensive 1/16 violin at a shop (we kept her 1/32 size because it was only $120 and very cute) and each time she moved up, we invested more money. I think the only time we came out even was when her 1/8 and 1/10 sizes cost the same....she tried more expensive 1/8 size instruments but happened to prefer one that was the same cost as her old fiddle.

[mindy9]

I know our community is unique because it offers an orchestra group for free as an after school activity and homeschoolers can participate. I only mention it because I had never heard of such a thing but you should check around near you to make sure there is not something like this. It is group lessons but my kids have been playing for four years and have learned SO much!

[Susan of Croton]

Violin, unlike piano, does not automatically produce a correct pitch. Instead of hitting a key that is a defined pitch, little fingers must find their way to the correct position. This can take years, as I discovered when I attended a Suzuki recital with high school players (who had started when 4 or 5) and was twisting in my seat. We're a piano family now.

[RemsMom]

Where do you rent a good quality violin? I looked online at Jay Haide violins mentioned earlier and they are a huge step up from the rentals at my local violin shop. My daughter has a 3/4 Satori Strings and will need a 3/4 for a while (she is tiny and was moved to the 3/4 early because her teacher thought she need a fuller sound and more bow length). I purchased our 3/4 from a friend for $100. When I bought it my thought was that it would be a great instrument if DD decided to play in the orchestra at the middle school (in other words, not a tragedy if something happened to it). I never intended for it to be her "good" violin. DD is on the third song in Suzuki Book 5. Any suggestions? I think we will need to go online for a rental since I don't have a lot of options where we live.

[catz]

For background, my 8 year old has been taking violin since age 4. I took 7 years growing up, and play with my dd now. My 12 year old son has taken piano for 7 years this spring. I haven't read other responses yet!

 

Fee - $25 - $35 is typical 30 minute starting lesson in my area for a degree carrying, experienced teacher that at least offers some performance opportunities. For a student, teaching out of an apartment, you could find something teacher. I'd ask about additional fees too.

 

Instrument size - my dd is on her 3rd instrument at age 8 (quarter size). She has had each size about 2 years (close to moving up on this current size which would be consistent with this pattern). This varies WIDELY though. Hopefully since you're starting a 6 year old you might not have as fast of turnover as if you were starting a preschooler. Sizing has more to do with arm and finger length and shoulder width than height. Lots of kids my daughter's height have larger instruments. She is small framed. Anyway, definitely let a teacher size your child. I went to a violin shop and they were suggesting a much larger size at one point which would have been a disaster.

 

Replacing - with small instruments, we've rarely gotten to the point where we've needed to change strings and never had to rehair a small bow. We broke a bow once and just had to buy a new one. The strings start sounding tinny if they need replacement, and a good teacher will let you know. So, in other words, rarely!

 

Speed - how fast a child advances varies widely depending on the child and the teacher and the parent involved. I know kids that have spent 4 months on Suzuki book 1 and kids that spent 4 years in Suzuki book 1. I know book 4 kids that sound amazing, and book 4 kids that sound like they should go back to book 1.

 

I think a year is a good base for getting a good practice habit going, having a good set up, and understanding the expectations of your teacher. Having these things in place may feel like it's taking forever, but once that is established many kids zoom from that point. The initial phase of violin lessons is hard for many kids and parents because you can't just play it and sound good like a piano student might (the harder part of piano lessons come later!).

 

The thing to to IMO is be ready to be an involved, excited participant for a LONG time. I'd be shocked if a teacher at this point wouldn't expect you to be in every lesson and helping with practice. Learn to enjoy practices - play games, be silly, laugh lots. Be aware that it can be very up and down. Some days it'll be wonderful. Some days it'll be a chore. There are kids that just run with it. We go to a school with hundreds of suzuki students, and most of them (including my violinist) have their ups and downs.

[RemsMom]

I'd look at Shar music. Good quality instruments, good rental pricing. Dd worked there for a year as an apprentice. There are good people waiting to answer your questions.

 

 

Thank you. I will take a look at their website.

[sunshine clementine]

Dd6 wants to learn violin. I know a great teacher (don't know her fees, though) and have access to a student-level instrument, probably of the correct size. Dh and I both have music degrees and he's been teaching dd6 piano for a couple years now, so it's not as if we have no clue. However, I was a band geek/vocalist growing up and I have very little experience with strings.

 

What is a typical lesson fee in your area?

I worked at a local music store (TX) and the charge was $70/month..even if you miss a lesson.

 

How long before a kid needs to move up to the next size instrument?

 

Just a guess..but if your child grows like crazy your instrument will last at least a year..most cases longer. I started playing at 9 (average size not tall) on a 3/4 size..by 11-12, I moved up to a full.

How often to you need to replace stuff like strings or the bow horse-hair? What would typical costs be?

I'm 29..and not a typical violinist..more of a casual (lazy) type..and to be honest I still use the exact same synthetic bow that I got when I was 11-12..and I've never had to have anything fixed on it. I did however, find kind of a magical deal on a violing for my son at a junk shop..complete violin, case and bow for $75..I can't remember the brand off the top of my head..but I do remeber that it was made in West Germany in the 40s, and my buddies at the music store couldn't believe the deal I got..they knew more about the brand than I did..anyhoo..I had to have the bow restrung..they said that it was too high of quality to junk it and buy a new one. Cost-abt $50. Strings, I replace at least once a year.. price varies depending on what you get and where. Plain steel strings cost abt 35-40..I buy carbon fiber strings thru Johnson String Instrument..you can shop online and get their free catalog..Lots of really neat resources there :)

 

What different styles of teaching are out there? (I've heard of Suzuki, but not others by name.) How much do the books tend to cost?

I don't really have too educated of an answer..but as a teacher, I always talked to the parents and/or students about their goals and what direction they were wanting to go. Do you want to play just for church/personal satisfaction/fun? Well, then I'm your gal...Anyone who wanted to go a super serious route..I always sent to one of the youth orchestra directors..One of them used suzuki, the other just used a traditional method of teaching with plain old books similar to what I used to teach with, but she did supplement with suzuki resources. I used whatever books the local schools were using, which has been the Essential Elements series..under $10 a book I believe. I did teach Suzuki piano, and those books were comparable in price to the Essential Elements series.

I know this is dependent on skill, but how long does it generally take for a beginner to be somewhat "musical" - in other words, play well enough to be pleased with what they hear instead of just doing training exercises?

For my students, that would be after they finished the first book. That would take them 2-5 months depending on how much they practiced or how many lessons that they missed. But after they finished the first book, they were much more proficient in reading music that I let them pick out a song book so that they could play songs they were interested in...When students were able to apply and enjoy, morale increased.

Any other "head's up" I should be aware of?

Violin is tough..and it is easy to get discouraged..find a great teacher! Good luck to you!

Thanks!!

 

Mama Anna

 

[Guest lakshman111]

Hello!  From reading the posts in this thread, this seems like the best place to ask this question.  I am currently a masters student at Northwestern, and for the last year, I have been working on a book for parents on how to make your child successful at violin.  It is a compilation of 10 interviews from top students, teachers, conductors, and even a violin store (Juilliard, Manhattan School of Music, etc).  From these interviews, one will be able to extrapolate pitfalls to avoid and avenues to go down in order to best navigate the path to becoming a world class violinist.  Essentially, it would answer the question to this thread, "What should I know going in?"  As I only have 6 months before I start my job, I want to know if I should take the time to finish this book and release it?  Please let me know if this is something you would be interested in and want me to finish it.

 

Thanks!

[cdrumm4448]

I would be interested in reading it! I am always on the lookout for tweaks to what we do.

[lea1]

I completely agree. I have known MANY kids to start violin and the ONLY ones who have kept with it had an adult either learning along with them or an adult who already played. The first 1.5 years are really tough and it appears that very very little progress is made until after that point.

 

Also, your student needs to be willing to do a lot of work on posture/position. My son's first teacher did not focus on this, and he had to do 1.5 YEARS of exercises only before the new teacher was willing to allow him to play again, his position was that bad. On the good side, he is now an excellent player.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

If I had it to do over again, I would search on line for proper posture and positioning to make sure I knew what to look for.  My son's first teacher did not stress proper positioning.  I always wondered about it and worried about it and I would mention it to her and she just acted like it would come.  After 2 years, we switched teachers and the new guy was very particular about posture and positioning and he had much better ways of teaching it also.  It was very difficult for ds to take this step backward to work on posture and positioning so long before he could start moving forward again.

 

The other thing is that I had to take notes and help him practice every day.  He was 7.5 when he switched to piano.  Although I miss the beautiful sound of the violin, the piano practice fits into our schooling day so much easier because he can do it on his own while I am working with my other ds.  I also love the sound of the piano and he is picking it up very quickly so that is nice.

 

[laundrycrisis]

Hello!  From reading the posts in this thread, this seems like the best place to ask this question.  I am currently a masters student at Northwestern, and for the last year, I have been working on a book for parents on how to make your child successful at violin.  It is a compilation of 10 interviews from top students, teachers, conductors, and even a violin store (Juilliard, Manhattan School of Music, etc).  From these interviews, one will be able to extrapolate pitfalls to avoid and avenues to go down in order to best navigate the path to becoming a world class violinist.  Essentially, it would answer the question to this thread, "What should I know going in?"  As I only have 6 months before I start my job, I want to know if I should take the time to finish this book and release it?  Please let me know if this is something you would be interested in and want me to finish it.

 

Thanks!

 

I would be interested, and I think all of your work that has gone into documenting these interviews is worth seeing through...good luck !