Alenee Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 What is the general overview of why warming is such a big problem? From what I gather, the globe has always been warming, but I know there are obviously those who believe our emissions in the last 100 (or more) years are causing it at a faster rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 What is the general overview of why warming is such a big problem? From what I gather, the globe has always been warming, but I know there are obviously those who believe our emissions in the last 100 (or more) years are causing it at a faster rate. Yes, the rate of change is key. There were an array of thoughtful opinions (on both sides of the issue) offered in this previous discussion: http://67.202.21.157/forums/showthread.php?t=5170&highlight=global. Not that it isn't worth talking about more/again; just thought I'd offere that for starters.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 I just *knew* it had been discussed...right before I joined the boards! Thanks for this link. It's a long read but I'm going to try to wade through it.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in MD Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 What is the general overview of why warming is such a big problem? From what I gather, the globe has always been warming, but I know there are obviously those who believe our emissions in the last 100 (or more) years are causing it at a faster rate. I'll try to do a fast overview. Hopefully someone will have a good, thorough web site to direct you to. First off, the globe has not always been warming. However the climate has always been changing. Until recently it was always thought to have occurred slowly, but recent research indicates that the climate can hold fairly steady until a critical tipping point is hit and then sudden changes occur. But the current problem is more critical because we're talking about OUR species - finding places to house them and being able to feed them. We're also more aware of the importance of other species, flora, fauna and microbes, in our health. A few key points: 1) Ocean level rises - this is projected based on both melting glaciers and hot water expands. I forget what the latest % of humans live within a few hundred feet of sea level and close to the ocean. This will lead to mass relocations and possibly very expensive ocean control devices. Combined with this is projected larger storm surges, which will further erode the land and affect those who live at slightly higher elevations. 2) Rainfall patterns - Our modern crops are bred to closely match the current climate and soil conditions in the more industrial agricultural countries. We're currently mining the aquafers under the plains to grow a lot of our basic grains. Further reductions in rainfall combined with increased temperatures would lead to greatly reduced crop yields. And warmer temperatures further north wouldn't mean that we could automatically move our crops further north because boreal soils (soils developed under northern evergreens) are very different from soils developed under grasslands. 3) Warmer temperatures in the temperate areas will allow current "tropical" deseases to migrate north. 4) There is some fear that the Gulf Stream would be "shut off" by massive amounts of melting glaciers. This would/could turn much of Europe's climate into a climate similar to northern Canada. This would further reduce food production. 5) Earlier melting of snow packs - many areas depend on melting snow packs to provide drinking and irrigation water. These are just a few of the concerns. Some are relatively new concerns because of improved computer models and new field research. The computer models are tested against past weather reports for the last hundred, hundred and fifty years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 My opinion, which I probably expressed in the other thread, is that it's all globaloney. God's got it all under control, I don't have to worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 My opinion, which I probably expressed in the other thread, is that it's all globaloney. God's got it all under control, I don't have to worry about it. Yes, those of us who believe God has control don't have to "worry", per se. But His control doesn't asbolve us of educating ourselves and being responsive. I am not talking here solely about global warming. Sick horse? Why deal with it? God's in control! Car making an odd sound? No worries. God'll deal with it. Interesting how people wash their hands of responsibility ~ and rest easy in God's controlling arms ~ on a rather selective basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 My opinion, which I probably expressed in the other thread, is that it's all globaloney. God's got it all under control, I don't have to worry about it. Must be nice to be this certain. Me, I'm quite worried. I'm pretty sure the only one who can get us out of this mess is ourselves....and we are not doing so good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Yes, those of us who believe God has control don't have to "worry", per se. But His control doesn't asbolve us of educating ourselves and being responsive. I am not talking here solely about global warming. Sick horse? Why deal with it? God's in control! Car making an odd sound? No worries. God'll deal with it. Interesting how people wash their hands of responsibility ~ and rest easy in God's controlling arms ~ on a rather selective basis. Very true, perhaps I just don't feel that God has put global warming on my responsiblity list. I see a very big difference in stewardship of my life and trying to save the world. I know what to do for an injured horse. I'm not convinced that global warming is something I need to get excited about. All you have to do is to google it, and you can see that there are just as many scientists out there saying that it isn't a problem, that the earth goes through weather cycles. One site says it's two degrees hotter every 100 years? I need more than that to get my panties in a wad, much less give out ANR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Very true, perhaps I just don't feel that God has put global warming on my responsiblity list. So if you don't feel led to respond to an issue (or potential issue), it must be nonsense? How does that follow? I see a very big difference in stewardship of my life and trying to save the world. What's the difference? They go hand in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I believe that we should be good stewards of the planet. A good way to ease into a study of Global Warming if you don't have a science background is to watch "An Inconvenient Truth" http://www.climatecrisis.net/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 So if you don't feel led to respond to an issue (or potential issue), it must be nonsense? How does that follow? What's the difference? They go hand in hand. Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I simply stated my opinion that it's baloney, and if you want to make me out to be irresponsible, go right ahead. I am taking care of my part of the earth because I can. Sorry if you think I'm not living up to my responsibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Ouch Colleen! Let's not go hurling insults here! I just wanted to know what both sides see from a purely scientific viewpoint, not your opinions of those who disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I believe that we should be good stewards of the planet. A good way to ease into a study of Global Warming if you don't have a science background is to watch "An Inconvenient Truth" http://www.climatecrisis.net/ I agree and on another note, someone needs to find or start a No drilling petition so I can sign it, I have seen two pro. in the past two wks. Thats not fair. Jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Ouch Colleen! Let's not go hurling insults here! I just wanted to know what both sides see from a purely scientific viewpoint, not your opinions of those who disagree with you. I think she just feels very strongly about this. We all have our buttons!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I agree and on another note, someone needs to find or start a No drilling petition so I can sign it, I have seen two pro. in the past two wks. Thats not fair. Jet Pass that petition my way when you're done signing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I agree and on another note, someone needs to find or start a No drilling petition so I can sign it, I have seen two pro. in the past two wks. Thats not fair. Jet Considering the effectiveness of petitions- especially online ones- I'm not worried. Something much more effective is to call or write directly to your representatives and let them know how you feel. Also, it's about time to vote again. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I dont think anyone has buttons or has hurled insults. I think we are all very strong individuals with certain opinions. And when you throw , religion or politics or even green issues in the mix, everyone has their opinions and beliefs. I think we all respect each other , because as I have seen on alot of polls we all have a ton in common. Jet:grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Pass that petition my way when you're done signing it. I am not tech savvy, so can I pass the torch to someone else to start one. Jet Seriously, I cant even attach a link. I barely got an avatar and think I am cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Ouch Colleen! Let's not go hurling insults here! Can you explain to me how the questions I posed equate with hurling insults? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Considering the effectiveness of petitions- especially online ones- I'm not worried. Something much more effective is to call or write directly to your representatives and let them know how you feel. Also, it's about time to vote again. :D No you're right. They're not particularly effective policy changers are they? Why a bunch of people willing enough to sign their name to an issue doesn't wield more political weight is a travesty of sorts. So I guess the benefit of petition leans more for the signers than the politicians. Just sort of a way to make your stand known. Analogous to standing up for what you believe in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Here's one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Others here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Here's one. Care2 rocks! I've signed a lot of their petitions over the years. Great big wonderful site, worth exploring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think we all respect each other. Jet:grouphug: Oh, I don't know about that. I'm getting a pretty strong indicator of disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alenee Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Can you explain to me how the questions I posed equate with hurling insults? Thank you. Okay, after re-reading your post, it wasn't a direct insult per se, but honestly, the way in which you stated it *seemed* insulting. I don't know how else to describe it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 No you're right. They're not particularly effective policy changers are they? Why a bunch of people willing enough to sign their name to an issue doesn't wield more political weight is a travesty of sorts. So I guess the benefit of petition leans more for the signers than the politicians. Just sort of a way to make your stand known. Analogous to standing up for what you believe in. Well- it's the nature of petitions in and of themselves. Anybody can make up signatures- especially online. I've signed my name as stuff like Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse on a few just to prove a point. To sign a name to an issue so it will count, I still say mailings, phone calls, or visits are a good way to go. At one time, I passed out stamped enveloped to people in my community to actually get them to send mail to a representative. Forming groups in your community is good too- there is power in organized numbers. People who hold elected offices sometimes go under the rule of thumb that for every one person who takes the time to call/write in, there are 10 more that didn't but have the same opinion and will vote in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I simply stated my opinion that it's baloney, and if you want to make me out to be irresponsible, go right ahead. I'm not trying to make you out to be anything. If you feel irresponsible, so be it. If not, so be it. What I am trying to understand is how you arrived at the conclusion that global warming is globaloney. You initially shared your opinion that the issue is all "globaloney". Since your next sentence asserted that God's got it all under control, I assumed that you see a connection between the two. That is, regardless of what is or isn't happening with global climate change, it's all in God's hands. I pointed out that God's control doesn't preclude being responsive to an issue. You agreed and said perhaps you don't feel God has put global warming on your responsibility list. I asked what I consider a question worthy of consideration. If a problem exists ~ or a potential problem ~ do give it thoughtful consideration, or do we label it as silly simply because we don't feel God's put it on our priority list of concerns? There are all kinds of issues to which I don't feel led to respond. Does that make those issues stuff and nonsense? I am taking care of my part of the earth because I can. Great! As I said earlier, being a responsible steward on an individual basis and "saving the world" go hand-in-hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Okay, after re-reading your post, it wasn't a direct insult per se, but honestly, the way in which you stated it *seemed* insulting. I don't know how else to describe it to you. Okay. I'm sorry it seemed that way. I think it's a worthwhile exercise, when we want to dismiss as nonsense what many consider a serious issue, to think through our reasoning. And the reasoning shared above lacks logic: Because God's in control, and because I don't feel He's put the issue on my responsibility list, it's a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Okay. I'm sorry it seemed that way. I think it's a worthwhile exercise, when we want to dismiss as nonsense what many consider a serious issue, to think through our reasoning. And the reasoning shared above lacks logic: Because God's in control, and because I don't feel He's put the issue on my responsibility list, it's a non-issue. To you it's illogical, to me it's faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think it's all part of a big cycle. I remember in the 70's we were headed towards another ice age and we were all going to die like the dinosaurs, under a big sheet of ice. Now, 30 yrs later, we're all going to fry. I beleive there was 'data' back then too, to support the theory du jour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think it's all part of a big cycle. I remember in the 70's we were headed towards another ice age and we were all going to die like the dinosaurs, under a big sheet of ice. Now, 30 yrs later, we're all going to fry. I beleive there was 'data' back then too, to support the theory du jour. The theory du jour of the 70s is pretty much the same theory du jour of current times. Its the same data, we just currently have a better understanding of it then we did 30 yrs ago, and we also have more data to look at too. Its the same theory: global climate CHANGE. Well- it's the nature of petitions in and of themselves. Anybody can make up signatures- especially online. I've signed my name as stuff like Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse on a few just to prove a point. To sign a name to an issue so it will count, I still say mailings, phone calls, or visits are a good way to go. At one time, I passed out stamped enveloped to people in my community to actually get them to send mail to a representative. Forming groups in your community is good too- there is power in organized numbers. People who hold elected offices sometimes go under the rule of thumb that for every one person who takes the time to call/write in, there are 10 more that didn't but have the same opinion and will vote in that direction. You're right. Petitions are about the lowest level of involvement. Which is too bad, most people don't have time for the things that would really make a difference. Or they have introvert issues..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 To you it's illogical, to me it's faith. That trump card doesn't quite work with me because I share your faith. I firmly believe God has it all under control, too. And as I said earlier, His control doesn't preclude our awareness. And just because something's not on your responsibility list (although, really, it is on your list, as far as personal stewardship is concerned) ~ not having it on your list doesn't mean it's nonsense (or "globaloney";)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 The media presented it that way, but that was really never the view of the scientists. Good summary here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 That trump card doesn't quite work with me because I share your faith. I firmly believe God has it all under control, too. And as I said earlier, His control doesn't preclude our awareness. And just because something's not on your responsibility list (although, really, it is on your list, as far as personal stewardship is concerned) ~ not having it on your list doesn't mean it's nonsense (or "globaloney";)). I am aware. I just don't believe it. And quite frankly, I don't have a problem with you taking it seriously, why do you have such issues with me shrugging it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academy of Jedi Arts Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 On a lighter note- I just opened a beer from Magic Hat. All their bottlecaps have little sayings on them. This one was well-timed and said: "The planet has needs for your deeds" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I am aware. I just don't believe it. And quite frankly, I don't have a problem with you taking it seriously, why do you have such issues with me shrugging it off? I was hoping to understand how you'd arrived at your position, but clearly, we're making no progress. Oh, well. That happens sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Others here. Thank you , I signed and bookmarked so I can read more and send more. Jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 All I know it is globaloney! I also know that scripture does teach that God is in control. We can't change anything but only He can. Also more scientist disagree with the global warming than agree. There is a report that came out about it (it is very hush hush) stating a small paltry sum of scientist actually agree with it. It was very interesting. I will have to ask my dh where that report is before I get slammed for stating this fact. I will be back tomorrow to give a link (hopefully). Also I do not agree that Al Gore's film is scientific to watch on global warming. His movie is more of his political agenda on global warming. Wrath was put on him everywhere he went in presenting this movie or his talks....it snowed in places that never had snow. Something tells me that God is in control here. ;) Holly who is really sticking her neck out in this thread...:001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 All I know it is globaloney! I also know that scripture does teach that God is in control. We can't change anything but only He can. Also more scientist disagree with the global warming than agree. There is a report that came out about it (it is very hush hush) stating a small paltry sum of scientist actually agree with it. It was very interesting. I will have to ask my dh where that report is before I get slammed for stating this fact. I will be back tomorrow to give a link (hopefully). Also I do not agree that Al Gore's film is scientific to watch on global warming. His movie is more of his political agenda on global warming. Wrath was put on him everywhere he went in presenting this movie or his talks....it snowed in places that never had snow. Something tells me that God is in control here. ;) Holly who is really sticking her neck out in this thread...:001_huh: God is in control. But I dont believe he is purposefully ruining the planet. I believe we have a ton to do with that. God, however did leave us in the Garden of Eden to make our own decisions and take care of Eden. oops. I think we need to take care of this planet, because every piece of life is dependent on each other. We are all here for a reason. And the reason , I can see is sitting down to dinner eating. So I hope to steward some land for their future and teach them that we need to care not only for ourselves but for the other inhabitants that cannot speak for themselves. Only if they are not spider, snake or rodent, but everything else is okay. And ants, those are bad too. Ok, I will jump off of soapbox. Jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think it's all hype -- a classic case of "Chicken Little-itis". :ohmy: Of course, this is just my humble opinion, based on the research I've studied. You (collective) are certainly entitled to believe differently if you want. And in a few million years, maybe we'll be able to determine who was right. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 has been going on for a century. This website documents the past climate rhetoric since 1890. We should be in the next ice age by now. I just don't believe the global warming hype. http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2006/fireandice/fireandice.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think it's all hype -- a classic case of "Chicken Little-itis". :ohmy: Of course, this is just my humble opinion, based on the research I've studied. You (collective) are certainly entitled to believe differently if you want. And in a few million years, maybe we'll be able to determine who was right. ;) Yeah, I'm with you and Holly, and in a million years I'm gonna say neener, neener! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you guys are so funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 All I know it is globaloney! Where does this word come from? I've seen it twice in this thread so far. Is it something from a radio host, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom31257 Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 I don't have time to read all of this thread, but my dh read a book this summer by Michael Crichton pertaining to climate change. I can't remember the name. I know he writes fiction, but uses a lot of real science in them. He showed me graphs that showed the years last century when CO2 emissions were rising the most, the temperature was actually going down. He doesn't like science to become political and I agree. People are getting on the bandwagon because there is money to be made. Universities are doing the research so the grant money will keep coming in even if the research doesn't prove it. I read that Al Gore's house uses as much energy in 1 year as it takes to power 240 houses in 1 month. That's hypocrisy. I want to take care of the environment; however, people's needs should come first. I went to the Atlanta Botanical Gardens this month and I was very upset by something. We got a plastic cup that said it was made from 100% corn. How can we be putting corn in our gas tanks and plastic cups when people are starving around the world????? It just seems cruel. I wanted to take it back and ask for something that couldn't have fed a hungry child. Forgive my forwardness, please. Since I saw those graphs and that cup, I'm a changed woman. Amy of GA Darin's wife for 17 years 11yo dd 5yo ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouseacademy Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 From all I have read and heard on both sides of this, I believe it to be hype with little substance. This is not to say that we are not causing pollution or that we ought to not make an effort to be good stewards of our earth. On the contrary, we should be aware of our pollution and that of our hobbies and consumption. For example, the cows we raise to slaughter produce far more harmful emissions than all the cars on the road- but you never hear about that. I also believe that God is in charge of the grand scheme. That being said, he is not a puppeteer and I believe he is bound by the laws of nature which He created- thus if we destroy a population or we dump toxins into the rivers, they will not be twinkled clean again by our loving Father but we will be left to deal with the natural consequences of our actions. BTW, please tell me how snow storms in mid-April in Washington show warming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kidsforME Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I simply stated my opinion that it's baloney, and if you want to make me out to be irresponsible, go right ahead. I am taking care of my part of the earth because I can. Sorry if you think I'm not living up to my responsibilities. :iagree: I think we need to be good stewards of what we have but....God did not intend for the earth to last forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLHCO Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes it has, and yes, sometimes even far faster than it has in the last century. You have to go back a bit further than the last 500 years though. Speed - take the warming that was just recently (this last month) found to have occurred at the end of the last ice age. So fast it made the scientists heads spin just looking at the data. There were some prehistoric times where the ocean temperatures were believed to have gotten up to 100 degrees, with alligators at the south pole, so hot has been seen too, just not in recent recording. I admit we didn't have anyone taking exact records at the time, so perhaps this is a bit off in the speculation. Time will tell on all ends. I haven't read all responses but I will confess we did just finish watching back to back: 1) An Inconvenient Truth :thumbdown: 2) The Great Global Warming Swindle :thumbup1: There are other places, I assume, where the science is far more credible on this issue, but Al Gore's movie got a big thumbs down on content, but a big thumbs up on emotional manipulation. :svengo: Do watch it, but don't stop there. I recently went on a site trying to debunk some of the very compelling evidence of "Great Global Warming Swindle", because it seemed so convincing the the other side needed a say. After reading the very scientific sounding article trying to disprove that movie's main charge, I read the comments. The debunk was not very solid, from what I finally concluded, it just sounds good to those who want to hear it debunked and don't mind omissions in evidence to prove a point one already wants to prove. Details of the flaws were brought out in the comments by many who study this. Debunk to the debunk of the debunk. Such rabbit trails can be entertaining, I admit. Very recent global temperatures (not simply local variations that fit some expected shifts of some places hotter, some a bit colder but we must look at the over all...) have shown things may not be as toasty as people expected they would be at this point. Recent information does take some time to shift through though, so we'll hold our breath a bit longer. I would encourage a good look at both sides and keep your eyes out for manipulation, which any side of any issue is likely to resort to, intentionally or not. OK, usually intentionally. It's such a hot button issue today that we really owe it to ourselves to do some of our own study, never simply listening to either end of the media, something discussed in an earlier thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 From all I have read and heard on both sides of this, I believe it to be hype with little substance. This is not to say that we are not causing pollution or that we ought to not make an effort to be good stewards of our earth. On the contrary, we should be aware of our pollution and that of our hobbies and consumption. For example, the cows we raise to slaughter produce far more harmful emissions than all the cars on the road- but you never hear about that. I also believe that God is in charge of the grand scheme. That being said, he is not a puppeteer and I believe he is bound by the laws of nature which He created- thus if we destroy a population or we dump toxins into the rivers, they will not be twinkled clean again by our loving Father but we will be left to deal with the natural consequences of our actions. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted July 22, 2008 Share Posted July 22, 2008 Where does this word come from? I've seen it twice in this thread so far. Is it something from a radio host, or what? i had to look it up too ;) http://www.lkwdpl.org/wihohio/luce-cla.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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