The future of Homeschooling...good or bad?

[titianmom]

I know that as my daughter gets older, she's becoming more independent in school.

 

However, I still monitor closely because I"ve caught some off-track thinking and responses that needed my intervention. We parents have to be there and teach now and then, even in high school.

 

Well, I personally feel that the best education is one in which the child learns to educate himself. We can lead the horse to water but surely cannot make him drink. I personally say, go for it, to the parents who let their darlings run amuck and be children. ;) I also think that kids can be alarmingly behind and catch up at breakneck pace when they are older. Young kids IMO don't necessarily need to be learning all the stuff they are force-fed at very early ages in our schools. I am not convinced it really makes an impact down the road, other than to perhaps kill a natural desire to learn.

 

When I started hs, I was very much all about *teaching* my children all the things I felt they needed to be taught. My brother made a comment (and his kids are in public school, fwiw) that regardless of what I do or don't do, kids will learn what they need to know when they need to know it. I didn't buy it then, but now I really see that he had a point. Still, my girls do have a curriculum (CM) and they are studying Latin, math, reading, writing, taking part in music lessons, sports, etc. So, we are certainly not unstructured here, but I also think that a child will form a desire within him/herself in regard to their life/future and will take it upon themselves to do what they need to do to reach that goal. There are a gazillion kids in school who hate school, hate reading, hate learning and are biding their time until they can walk out those doors a free person, whether it is with a high school diploma or without. Many, many schools are failing miserably. Should we shut all of them down and say that's it for compulsory education?

 

I say, it's better to run wild in the sunshine and out of doors than it is to be locked inside the walls of a school doing nothing. Now obviously, I would never support abuse of children or neglect, but if it's just that they are not doing formal school, well, I say, so what? That has nothing to do with whether they are learning or not. We are all learning all the time IMO.

 

Anita

[titianmom]

Someone from a different perspective!

 

This is interesting.

 

We all have a tendency to look for the easiest route sometimes, no matter what we're using or style of learning. We're busy people.

 

The reality is, no matter what we do, kids will not retain everything we teach or give them to use for schooling.

 

The other reality is, if they're going to college, they need to achieve a certain level of proficiency in core requirements. Testing is a reality, folks.

Personally I try to look down the road so that I can help my daughter as much as I can.

 

I have lazy days, too, but I try not to make it a habit :D

 

Kim

 

 

I'm a curriculum consultant and this is something I come across far too often. They want something their kids can do independently. I try to stress that parental involvement is the biggest factor in student motivation and success and that it's a good idea to at least have a couple of subjects where the parent is more involved.

 

I train teachers in homeschooling so that they understand homeschoolers and are able to support and encourage them in their journey. The last time I spoke I felt like choking on the statistics. In the four years I've been doing this the homeschoolers we're seeing have changed. Now it's easy to homeschool.

 

I'm not sure that's a good thing.

[titianmom]

And that children are very flexible as a rule. Especially when they're young; they're like little sponges.

 

I wish the best for your family,

 

Kim

 

 

So even though I cringe at the thought of what my niece is learning and how her experience will end up, I have to be thankful that she's able to do it and in turn, that I'm able to teach my own kids. If her education were to be regulated, so would ours.

[titianmom]

I'm with you. I'm looking at college and requirements that our children must meet, if college is our goal. And I'm wondering...

 

And for those who face great challenges and have different, necessary reasons for homeschooling, I support your efforts and wish you the best, and am not judging folks on their SAT scores, etc.

 

School and county officials are, hopefully, aware of everyone's situation, so I'm not really refering to the exceptions.

 

Thanks again,

 

Kim

 

Kim,

 

I understand your POV and I totally agree with you. I have been homeschooling for 15 yrs and I see a shift.

 

Like all things, though, as the population pool increases, you are going to have a more "statistically representative" set of outcomes. You should expect to see a more typical bell curve which will include a shift downward since the purported "homeschoolers perform better" median has been based on an atypical population. As homeschooling becomes more mainstream, the homeschooling population is becoming a more generalized statistical sample (though homeschooling is still not really mainstream, it is not comparable to yrs ago when the majority of Americans had never heard of homeschooling).

 

I also think there is a false sense of security amongst the homeschooling populace at large that institutionalized schools fail children and that all parents can do it better. It is not an accurate assessment in either direction. Schools do succeed in providing quality education. Parents do fail. It is not an all-or-nothing position in either camp.

 

The comments that others have made about not needing to worry about it or that it isn't your concern are inaccurate. Many universities are re-evaluating their homeschool admission policies b/c there is a shift in how successful homeschoolers are performing at the university level. This is an extremely telling sign. As they place higher burdens of proof on quality of ed, you are going to have to make sure your child meets those "proofs" if your family has those unis as a goal.

 

Ultimately, the best course of action is to focus on your own homeschool efforts and plan on validating your child's education via SAT IIs, CLEPs, and APs if higher educational goals include competitive universities. If your child's transcript and scores reflect the academic quality, than what is occuring in the general homeschooling populace at large shouldn't have a significant impact.

 

The main difference is that when planning my oldest's high school courses, I didn't incorporate those tests/objectives into our homeschool. I am with my younger crew. I don't want a homeschooling transcript to limit their university selections.

 

BTW.......yes, I am aware that many colleges are openly friendly and recruit homeschoolers. That doesn't negate what is happening within other university systems. It all boils down to the goals of individual families. Your job as parent/teacher/guidance counselor is going to have to expand to knowing what is happening in higher academia (in addition to yearly educational goals) if that is a goal for your family.

[titianmom]

I am doing something. Opening up discussion.

 

That's why I stuck my neck out and started this beast! :bigear:

 

But honestly, if it makes us all ask the questions and check our answers, then it's worth a little mud slinging my way, IMHO.

 

The older I get (especially with the dc), the thicker my skin gets, anyway. You have to have thick skin with a budding teen,

 

....and when you start scary discussion threads.

 

Take care,

 

Kim

 

I'm thinking you should just ponder your own homeschooling efforts and let others ponder theirs. The truth is that there's nothing you can do, anyway. It will be fine.

[titianmom]

I brought this up somewhere else in the thread.

 

We homeschoolers need to remember that PS'd kids are people, too. :)

 

The schools aren't nec the evil empire. They need work, and I don't agree with some worldviews out there, but the reality is, there are Christians and other folks who don't have a choice but to put their children in the system.

 

Some feel they should expose their kids to all kinds of things so that they'll learn how to handle disagreeable peers and beliefs that don't jive with their family's beliefs.

 

I don't adhere to this concept, but I support those who do because it isn't my job to correct anyone. I wish them the best, as a matter of fact, my best friend is one of those who purposely keeps them in the system for this reason.

 

All of us should have the goal of what is best for the kids. It's about the kids, not about us.

 

I haven't ran into anyone off hand that refuses to let their kids hang out with PS'd kids. Not saying it doesn't happen, though.

 

I guess I try to work both lines in some ways. I keep my dc home to teach values and education, but she plays with anyone, and I encourage her to be a good influence on the ones who swear and try to set the cat on fire, for ex. :) (And that could be either a homeschooled child or a PS'd child, lol.)

 

Best of everything,

 

Kim

 

Honest truth- We don't belong to any homeschool groups and I have only a handful of friends in my town who homeschool. Why?

 

Mainly because I don't think I'm a better parent just because I homeschool. I am so sick of all the excuses- example

Mom1: "We 'haven't had time' for math all week."

Mom2: "It's okay, they are still getting more than the hour of instruction they would get in public school."

 

WHAT!?!?!?! Since these woman will not condescend to hang out with public school parents and won't "allow" their children to associate with kids who aren't homeschooled, how the heck do they know? The truth is that these poor public school kids are being worked to death, as are their teachers, in most cases. I'm not a fan of public school or bureaucracy in general, but public school teachers have been such a help to me over the years. I always ask my teacher friends questions, and they appreciate them. Yes, education is a gimmee major, but at least these women WENT to college, and many of them to GOOD colleges.

 

I don't get snide remarks from non-homeschool parents. Case in point- Something happened at my daughter's birthday party last weekend. The party helper asked all the girls what school they go to. Dd said she's homeschooled, and her mom came up to me a minute later and said, "I never would have guessed that she was homeschooled. You all just don't seem like the type."

 

So I replied, "I guess I should take that as a compliment."

 

And she said, "Oh yes, we have about 6 homeschoolers in our neighborhood. All of them are very rude. One of their kids told my ds when he asked them to play, 'We aren't allowed to play with you because your mom works."

 

I made sure to let the mom know all homeschoolers were not like her neighbors. I was so ashamed because I know this is commonplace in our area.

 

While I don't get snide remarks from public school parents, I have gotten several from other homeschoolers. My daughter doesn't go to the right dance studio (the one for homeschoolers). I don't need to be doing so much school- that's too much work for me and dd doesn't need to know all that stuff.

 

The apparent lack of education in many homeschooling families doesn't bother my husband and I nearly as much as the ability to critically think.

[mumztheword]

Granted, I'm very new here, and haven't even begun our homeschooling journey... but I must say that many of these posts make me feel uneasy.

 

Is it a case of "we were here first" and those of us who follow can't possibly live up to the expectations?

 

Is it a case of hsing becoming more mainstream and thus not the renegade choice that it once was?

 

Am I a sheep?

 

Are my decisions to homeschool "good enough"?

 

Surely even in the pioneering days of homeschooling, there were families that just scraped by or failed their children, just as there were families who did amazing things and prospered. How is that any different now -- except that the numbers have gotten larger?

 

What if acceptance to a competitive college is not the driving force behind homeschooling? Not good enough?

 

I can't imagine anyone choosing hsing because it's *easier* than sending your kids off to ps...

 

Sorry -- not sure where I'm going with all this. Just trying to digest it all.

:lurk5:

[titianmom]

Hi,

 

I accidentally started the thread in SALE, LOL. Someone removed it and now all of it is where it should be.

 

Take care,

Kim

 

Clue me in.

 

:001_huh:

[titianmom]

I am really getting to the point of changes that have been taking place and whether they're a good thing or a bad thing.

 

Also, is everyone actually interested in making the best educational choices for their children? I certainly hope so.

 

Thanks,

Kim

 

 

I've read through this with interest, though it certainly stung in a couple of places.

 

I take issue with the elitist attitude of the current homeschooling movement and in the unyielding attitude that if a homeschooler doesn't do things a certain way, he isn't a real homeschooler. This bothers me way more than "wrong" reasons to homeschool, "uneducated" homeschooling parents or "undereducated" homeschool students.

 

If homeschooling is about making the best educational choice for each child and parents having the right to make that choice, then why is there even any discussion about these issues? :confused:

[titianmom]

Exactly why I started this thread. To get us thinking.

 

If you're new to homeschooling, best wishes! It's the hardest job you'll ever love...kinda like the Peace Corps.

 

And don't worry, I'm not suggesting that HS'ing is circling the porcelain bowl or anything.

 

As I said earlier, I honestly believe that the vast majority have started HS'ing because they care about their kids, and they made the best, most responsible decision they could.

 

I'm wondering about all the changes and comments that I hear, et al. Without going into detail.

 

I started another top section of this thread about economics and how it might effect us all as homeschoolers. I know I've had to cut back on what I could spend on school, and we're actually dipping into savings these days.

 

Hope you're faring better!

Kim

 

 

Take care,

Kim

 

Granted, I'm very new here, and haven't even begun our homeschooling journey... but I must say that many of these posts make me feel uneasy.

 

Is it a case of "we were here first" and those of us who follow can't possibly live up to the expectations?

 

Is it a case of hsing becoming more mainstream and thus not the renegade choice that it once was?

 

Am I a sheep?

 

Are my decisions to homeschool "good enough"?

 

Surely even in the pioneering days of homeschooling, there were families that just scraped by or failed their children, just as there were families who did amazing things and prospered. How is that any different now -- except that the numbers have gotten larger?

 

What if acceptance to a competitive college is not the driving force behind homeschooling? Not good enough?

 

I can't imagine anyone choosing hsing because it's *easier* than sending your kids off to ps...

 

Sorry -- not sure where I'm going with all this. Just trying to digest it all.

:lurk5:

[Jami]

I think one of the differences between early homeschoolers and what you're seeing now is the sheer amount of curriculum choices on the market. Some which are very good and others, as you've pointed out, which are fairly mediocre. While it's fantastic to have lots of choices (I, for one, am thrilled to have solid choices for math, Latin, etc.), it makes homeschooling more about choosing the right curriculum, than really about teaching each discipline well.

 

Those who homeschooled in the early days had a few very school-like choices (Abeka for example, once they were willing to sell to homeschoolers) or actual school texts. And no one was publishing Latin programs for elementary/middle school students or writing programs based on the progym! So if a homeschooling mother decided that she wanted to teach her children chronological history without a text book, or Latin, or logic, or rhetoric...she learned those subjects herself as they went along! She *was* the curriculum. And even the best published tool can't replace a teacher who teaches, modifies, adapts...rather than just handing a book to the child (guilty here!). At least that is what I've seen from the homeschool moms that I know IRL and online who have very successfully graduated the first of their students. They themselves learned the material and became the curriculum and it's just a different caliber of education, I have to say.

 

That is what makes the excellent public and private school classrooms, excellent. Not better textbooks or resources or oversight, but better teachers. The kind I really wish I were more naturally, but have to really work at myself.

 

Jami

[titianmom]

Do special needs children actually test?

 

I would think the counties would be more supportive and flexible in those cases. I certainly would be. Seems unfair to require the same tests for everyone, unless you just want to do it.

 

I review, BTW, not test.

 

As I said before, I'm not a big fan of testing at all, but it's a reality for college-bound kids. At least for now.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kim

 

 

I am with you. I have two special needs kids myself, one with ADHD and one that is mentally retarded. I wonder what they would do to the test score averages?

[at the beach]

I know that as my daughter gets older, she's becoming more independent in school.

 

However, I still monitor closely because I"ve caught some off-track thinking and responses that needed my intervention. We parents have to be there and teach now and then, even in high school.

 

Oh, I certainly agree with that kids still need teachers/mentors. I think we need that our whole lives. And certainly, I don't think my children will master algebra, physics, calculus or whatever without someone guiding them. We follow a Charlotte Mason curriculum, and leading children to self-education is a big part of CM. My comments weren't really about just letting a child go off and not working with them. That's not at all what I meant to come across by that statement. I was referring more to my goal of raising kids who are interested in life-long learning, in reading, writing, history, the arts, science and math. In discussing things. I don't just want to force feed information to them, have them spit it out and promptly forget it because they really don't care one way or another. So, when I say the goal is to lead children to self-education, it's about helping my children become life-long learners. To find joy in learning and in the world around them.

 

Anita

[Laura K (NC)]

I think the future of homeschooling will not be a quality issue, but a political control issue, as it is in CA. I have a sinking feeling that my sons will not be supporting homeschool families, and that my grandchildren will be required to be taught by a public school (or a private school controlled by government standards and worldviews). It frightens me, literally.

 

As far as quality, it really varies both at home and in a public school. It varies in different colleges and with different public and private school teachers. On this board there are a great diversity of opinions about what "good enough" is.

 

As for the original poster's question about laxity, I personally think it hurts nobody but the child. I'm not talking about a child with special needs, where there is no real laxity on the part of either parent and education comes to mean so much more than arithmetic and English grammar, but the top part of the bell curve, where most of our children are situated. Rigor is too often seen, even here, as a dirty word, and I have too often read posts by moms who are more interested in ease than they are about their children being truly and competently literate in different subjects. It's a difference between "what's the easiest and quickest way through this requirement," and "How can I best teach this subject so my kid will know and love the subject?" I don't think laxity will be the downfall of homeschooling.

[Renee in NC]

Depending on the state, yes, they do. My special needs 7yo is tested just like a regular 7yo, even though he's just learned to count to 10 consistently.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Granted, I'm very new here, and haven't even begun our homeschooling journey... but I must say that many of these posts make me feel uneasy.

 

Is it a case of "we were here first" and those of us who follow can't possibly live up to the expectations?

Perhaps for some. I have met some pretty snotty veterans who were so concerned with getting their props for theirs struggles that they were unkind to beginners. For the OP, and me, I don't think that's the case. My expectations are not for specific methods or curriculum, but whether or not, I improve and my children are growing...I prefer they grow a lot...not just a little

 

Is it a case of hsing becoming more mainstream and thus not the renegade choice that it once was?

I'd say that. Most people I encounter now, actually know what it is. I don't get asked the "socialization" question nearly as much, and I actually get, "I wish I could do that." Nobody ever said that to me 9 years ago

 

Am I a sheep?

 

Are my decisions to homeschool "good enough"?

Hopefully not a sheep :) (laughing) If you are trying to offer the best for your children, and understand home schooling means business, then it will be the hardest job you've ever loved, and worth EVERY moment. At least for me, that classifies good enough

 

Surely even in the pioneering days of homeschooling, there were families that just scraped by or failed their children, just as there were families who did amazing things and prospered. How is that any different now -- except that the numbers have gotten larger?

I imagine there must have been, but generally speaking, very few people were even willing to home school, so those who did, meant business and put together some amazing results, particularly when there was no support, of pretty much any kind

 

What if acceptance to a competitive college is not the driving force behind homeschooling? Not good enough?

Not every child will go to college, but unless a person is 100% certain their child is not going to college, which I really can't be, I want to make sure that whatever direction my children decide to go in, I have prepared them in every way possible to be successful, both academically and by way of work ethic and life skills. Competitive college is not my driving force, but if they want to go to a competitive college, it would be too late to do anything about it in the 10th grade, so we prepare for the toughest, and tailor using a variety of methods to make sure we can get them there. If they stay at home (which I hope my daughters do) or become a 7-11 clerk, they will have the background to do that well and anything else they might decide to do

 

I can't imagine anyone choosing hsing because it's *easier* than sending your kids off to ps...

You might be surprised that many people think home schooling is a breeze and that it involves so very little...ignorance is bliss....

 

I wish you well in your home schooling journey. May you improve each and every year and may your children grow into well rounded, learning loving individuals who are able to attain all their goals and dreams.

[Night Elf]

School and county officials are, hopefully, aware of everyone's situation, so I'm not really refering to the exceptions.Kim

 

Don't forget that homeschool laws vary by state. My county knows I'm homeschooling but they have no idea what we actually do. I'm required to send a signed declaration of intent to homeschool and monthly attendance records that are nothing more than a one page calendar with a checkmark in each daily square for the days we "do school". Georgia homeschool law also requires homeschoolers to use standardized tests at the end of 3rd, 6th and 9th grades but those scores are not seen by anyone other than the parents and whomever is testing the children. I do my tests at home (Cat/5) using Family Learning Organization. A couple of years ago when I put the kids in school for a bit, neither the school nor the county wanted our tests. They acted like they didn't even know we were supposed to test our children. Oh, and I'm also supposed to write an annual progress report but that doesn't get turned in either. It's strictly for our records AND we only have to keep records back 3 years so every year I toss old stuff.

 

In other words, I do not submit what materials we're using or the results of our homeschooling.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Also, is everyone actually interested in making the best educational choices for their children? I certainly hope so.

 

I think that this is part of the problem, the above question assumes that everyone homeschools because they are dismayed by the quality of education in the public or private schools.

 

There are and have been a significant number who homeschool because they are dismayed by the environment that their children would be in whether or not they are concerned with the quality of content in the school's curriculum. There are also many who homeschool because they believe that it is their duty-biblically speaking (or perhaps I should generalize that to be more philosophically all encompassing). So are these people making educational choices or lifestyle choices that involve education?

 

Again, I am upset at times by what I see other people do as much as they may be concerned about my choices. But I am also often encouraged. I hate being labeled by other people's preconceived notions as to what a homeschool family is and hate to have my children labeled as well. Unfortunately, the opinions people have and assumptions they make and then use to formulate opinions about homeschooling do not apply to all and I am not sure that I have the right to place that judgment on another family. My "right" to homeschool doesn't derive from your kids test scores and shouldn't. Once we start defining and excluding who is or isn't a "quality" homeschooler we will be setting ourselves up for more trouble than any benefit we, as a community, might derive from trying to ensure the quality of education our children receive.

[mumztheword]

I think that this is part of the problem, the above question assumes that everyone homeschools because they are dismayed by the quality of education in the public or private schools.

 

There are and have been a significant number who homeschool because they are dismayed by the environment that their children would be in whether or not they are concerned with the quality of content in the school's curriculum.

 

Very true. I'd be crazy to take on hsing my kids if the decision was based on the quality of education in our town. Our schools are excellent, among the top 20 in the state.... which makes the decision to hs very, very hard for me. Can I accomplish what my local ps can? I don't know, but I'm trying to figure that out.

 

What I do know is that NO ONE will love or care for my kid's mental, spiritual and emotional health the way that I will. I know that the negative peer pressure in a privileged school district and affluent town can be fierce. And I do know that I want some sort of say in my children's education, and that's not easily accomplished in my district.

 

I'll keep reading this post with interest!

[Kelli in TN]

What a fantastic conversation!

 

I first want to let the OP know that I hold her personally responsible for my dining room table not getting sanded today. I was going to sand it after lunch, but I read this thread over my lunch and now I am sucked in. You couldn't do this next week when I am finished with the dining room table project?:001_huh:

 

:lol:

 

I am not a homeschool pioneer, we did not start until '91. But when I started homeschooling the pioneers were teaching high schoolers. There was a lot of pressure on them to pave the way and set a good precedent and I think they they did a great job.

 

I think there is a lot of truth to the OP's concerns. I don't think all of these concerns are new either. There have always been families that you just knew were not doing anything with their kids. And nobody really knows what to do or say about it because we want to help those children and yet we don't want to bring increased regulation on ourselves. We won't report anyone because we cannot trust the system, we know the system is likely to go overboard and destroy the family and perhaps other families as well.

 

I have spent a lot of hours on the phone through the years with homeschool moms who just could not get the train on the tracks. I have even tutored a student, free of charge, even supplied the homeschool materials for her. In the end I don't think my investment changed any lives.

 

It's a real problem and unfortunately I do not know of a real solution. I know the same thing is going on in the public schools as well, and I don't know the solution there, either.

 

I think the solution should have been private, voluntary self regulation. We should have figured out a way to support parents and help them when they are clearly failing without being overbearing and harming parents who were indeed succeeding but by a different path. It is a complicated issue and I fear that the government can only handle complicated solutions to simple issues and simple solutions to complicated issues. I would hazard a guess that the government's solution will be to shut the whole thing down, as that would be the simplest solution.

 

What do I know? I live in a state without a homeschool law. We have a memo. No law. Just a memo to govern our homeschool population.

[Kelli in TN]

I think the future of homeschooling will not be a quality issue, but a political control issue, as it is in CA. I have a sinking feeling that my sons will not be supporting homeschool families, and that my grandchildren will be required to be taught by a public school (or a private school controlled by government standards and worldviews). It frightens me, literally.

 

As far as quality, it really varies both at home and in a public school. It varies in different colleges and with different public and private school teachers. On this board there are a great diversity of opinions about what "good enough" is.

 

As for the original poster's question about laxity, I personally think it hurts nobody but the child. I'm not talking about a child with special needs, where there is no real laxity on the part of either parent and education comes to mean so much more than arithmetic and English grammar, but the top part of the bell curve, where most of our children are situated. Rigor is too often seen, even here, as a dirty word, and I have too often read posts by moms who are more interested in ease than they are about their children being truly and competently literate in different subjects. It's a difference between "what's the easiest and quickest way through this requirement," and "How can I best teach this subject so my kid will know and love the subject?" I don't think laxity will be the downfall of homeschooling.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Jami]

I think the future of homeschooling will not be a quality issue, but a political control issue, as it is in CA. I have a sinking feeling that my sons will not be supporting homeschool families, and that my grandchildren will be required to be taught by a public school (or a private school controlled by government standards and worldviews). It frightens me, literally.

 

As far as quality, it really varies both at home and in a public school. It varies in different colleges and with different public and private school teachers. On this board there are a great diversity of opinions about what "good enough" is.

 

As for the original poster's question about laxity, I personally think it hurts nobody but the child. I'm not talking about a child with special needs, where there is no real laxity on the part of either parent and education comes to mean so much more than arithmetic and English grammar, but the top part of the bell curve, where most of our children are situated. Rigor is too often seen, even here, as a dirty word, and I have too often read posts by moms who are more interested in ease than they are about their children being truly and competently literate in different subjects. It's a difference between "what's the easiest and quickest way through this requirement," and "How can I best teach this subject so my kid will know and love the subject?" I don't think laxity will be the downfall of homeschooling.

 

:iagree: too.

[CLHCO]

First, I think there are more options in homeschooling curriculum and when you have a wider variety of families, I think that's great. Some cannot homeschool the way others do. Some are not trying for college, just as some who send their kids to the public schools aren't trying for college. They're simply getting them through "school". Not everyone needs to be a leader. Sometimes you need people that just have fun tinkering with an old truck and raising a family. For them I'm glad there are some easier options.

 

For those that now want Latin in elementary and advanced AP physics in high school, I'm thrilled that's around too.

 

For financial concerns, I'm not sure that's bad either. I heard Andrew Pudewa discuss the older ways of teaching spelling - oral drill - and how that can have some far superior options compared to the modern workbook style. 150 years ago they did not have piles of cheap consumable books for kids and their education was often superior from it. I have homeschooled on a shoe-string budget, through unemployment of my spouse, cuts in pay and other problems that I would homeschool if there wasn't a dime to do it with. Just give me a library card. OK, that and perhaps a used Saxon book or two. Math is one area I find where unschooling alone is often difficult to gain success.

 

I read one comment about parents not seeing the big picture for homeschooling and just letting their kids live in a bubble with bible studies and play groups. For many people the big picture has nothing to do with academics, which our society idolizes anymore. We practically bow down and worship at the feet of anyone in a lab coat. :tongue_smilie: It's also likely these kids aren't as sheltered as it looks. Many think my daughters are sheltered, and in some areas they are, but no one knows of the conversations that go on in our house about many real issues. Kids who watch shows that do not give the truth about consequences of certain behaviors are getting a big dose of another type of sheltering (dangerous) that my daughters would pick up in a heartbeat watching the same thing.

 

I happen to also believe in delayed academics, within reason. I believe in exposure but I don't freak if my 7 year old isn't reading Tolkien or even Magic Tree House books. I follow TWTM much closer with my older kids than with the younger ones. It's very hard to quiz a child even in the 4th or 5th grade and get a good idea of their final destination. The Bluedorns, for example, don't bother with a lot of heavy work until about 10 or older, yet I can't look at those kids and suggest they are anything but highly educated.

 

People thought I was failing my children and it's taking years but they're coming around. When my daughters walk in to their grandparents' house reading Homer and/or Shakespeare *for fun*, people have no choice but to shut up about academics, though we still get it about the "sheltered" because they don't fall over and drool when they see a picture of Orlando Bloom, despite loving LOTR. :drool5: Oh well.

 

I admit I am far more likely to "tsk,tsk" a parent who complains to me about how bad the schools are on their child, the bullying, stress, and other things, only to refuse to do anything about it because they couldn't handle having to homeschool. Usually the comments are something along the line of "I couldn't stand to be with my kids all day." I think there are kids who are better off with a parent indifferent to education, who at least loves him enough to sacrifice and *be there* if he needs it, than a kid whose parent puts him in a good school where his spirit is broken. Perhaps that's also making an unfair judgment and perhaps their comments are just covering up their own insecurities. I'm just stating where my concerns tend to fall, instead of worrying about homeschooling's future.

[Kris]

How is the economics at your home affecting your homeschooling decisions?

 

We will be doing without some things. Just not sure what yet.

 

Do you think there's been changes in homeschooling that is good or bad over the last 25 years??

 

I don't think there have been so many changes (I homeschooled my daughter in California in the early 80s). I just think it's more "out there."

 

Anyone been around since the beginning of homeschooling?

 

I don't think anyone would want to admit to being that old, if they're still alive, that is. :lol: Homeschooling is as old as dirt -- or do you mean people who have homeschooled their kids from the beginning?

 

Is there a possibility that we could become a little, ah, lax and get spoiled a bit with all of the "make it easy to homeschool" material out there?

 

Homeschooling is not easy, if you take into account the dedication and effort that is required. I don't think there's a product out there that can replace those things. :)

[Trivium Academy]

Oh, I didn't mean cringing at what she is learning from the education software! I meant in real life from her parents.

[Kris]

The new "breed" of homeschoolers in my area make me want to scream! They just DO NOT get it. They want easy, quick fixes and answers. They are not interested in the deep relationship it takes to really homeschool and help your child learn, not just "do school".

 

Unfortunately, I think this is more a symptom of society in general, not some homeschoolers in particular. Instant gratification, quick fixes -- the easy way out.

 

I just had quite an interesting conversation with a friend last night who is diabetic. She's recently trying new meds. But for the meds to work, she needs to change her diet and lifestyle, which she is absolutely not willing to do. The pills are supposed to take care of everything. It doesn't work that way.

 

If you dig a little deeper, I think you'll find that your "new breed" of homeschooler applies the same "quick fix" mentality to the rest of their lives. Hopefully, it will work for them!

[titianmom]

What's the reason behind that? Just curious.

 

You can't have a reviewer? Man... :angry: I think it would be so much better than getting tested. The testing is stressful enough!!!

 

Thanks for the eye opener.

 

Kim

 

 

Depending on the state, yes, they do. My special needs 7yo is tested just like a regular 7yo, even though he's just learned to count to 10 consistently.

[Mom to Aly]

Do you think that the numbers between PS'd kids and homeschool kids will stay pretty much the same, roughly? Were you PS'd? I was and survived, but that was a long time ago.

 

Again, don't want to get off on a bunny trail again, so follow the thread, if you want, in the general board.

 

Thanks!

Kim

 

I was ps'd, but if I'd known about hs'ing, I would have made my mom do it (I'm 42--I doubt they did it in NY then, anyway). I hated school so much, if I hadn't grown up in an academic family knowing I would go to college I don't know that I would have, although I loved college!

 

I don't know that the numbers will stay the same, but I don't know that that will matter as much as some think. Right now, many seem to think we are the elite of the education pool, the ones who want the best for our kids, the classical education, Latin & Greek (I certainly don't intend that for my daughter), etc. There is such a hodge podge of homeschoolers, it is amazing. And whether they are doing it because their kids are advanced, special needs, timid, hyper, because they want them to learn led by their own interest, or led by a classical method, who cares? That is what homeschooling is all about--the parents right to decide! If our statistics go down a bit, I really don't believe they will ever be below public school!

 

Honestly, do you see teachers' salaries being raised to a rate that is their worth? Do you see people abandoning higher paid jobs to go into teaching, or do you see the dedicated few teaching, and becoming more and more exhausted as parents demand more of them, out of touch politicans add more to their plates, competitive school systems tell them they want more out of school day hours, etc? Do you see the teaching force becoming stronger, or experiencing more and more burn out? Sad to say, but I think we all know which way it is going. There sure is a lot of talk about what we need for our teachers in this country, but not a lot of action.

 

No, even if the testing statistics drop for homeschoolers, I don't believe it will be by much, and I don't believe it will effect us much at all. You have to remember how much you give up to homeschool. You give up that extra salary, which many won't do, because it allows you to buy more stuff, stuff, stuff. It allows you to compete with the Joneses, and isn't that what America is all about?

 

And it allows us time away from our kids--which so many people seem to want. How many kids go from bed to school bus to school to baby sitter to bed? How many kids get to see parents on weekends, and often spend those nights with baby sitters, and the days at sport functions? How many parents see their kids graduate and leave home, and realize they don't really know them? (Ooh, ooh, a "Cat's in the Cradle" moment).

 

Even if our test scores drop, even if the perfect picture of homeschooling that some of feel we project changes, how will that change us? Some of us will still strive for the best, have kids who excel, who do everything, plus so much more. Others will have kids who do a lot, maybe not everything, but everything they want, and really enjoy it, too. Some may not do as much, but they enjoy their education, and their fams, just like the other homeschoolers. Some, with special needs, will grow up knowing that, although they have differences, so does every other human being, and there is nothing wrong with that. And, yes, maybe some won't get the best education they could have gotten. But then, neither will many in public school.

 

I still think it's a wonderful thing, being able to chose for ourselves, being able to create our own curriculum, being able to dictate what our kids do and don't, and not having anyone interfere in our choices. I wouldn't have it any other way. Would you?

[titianmom]

Sorry about the table. :001_rolleyes::lol:

 

 

(Hope you get it finished before the fall and the heat is on, again...)

 

I had very good experiences with the pioneers of homeschooling,too. When I started out they ran the groups and coached moms on how to go about it. They were soooo encouraging to us and opened up their homes to us and everything.

 

I don't think some of us would have gotten off the ground without them. They were anything but arrogant.

 

Dinner must get on the table (ours is already finished...)

 

Take care!

Kim

 

What a fantastic conversation!

 

I first want to let the OP know that I hold her personally responsible for my dining room table not getting sanded today. I was going to sand it after lunch, but I read this thread over my lunch and now I am sucked in. You couldn't do this next week when I am finished with the dining room table project?:001_huh:

 

:lol:

 

I am not a homeschool pioneer, we did not start until '91. But when I started homeschooling the pioneers were teaching high schoolers. There was a lot of pressure on them to pave the way and set a good precedent and I think they they did a great job.

 

I think there is a lot of truth to the OP's concerns. I don't think all of these concerns are new either. There have always been families that you just knew were not doing anything with their kids. And nobody really knows what to do or say about it because we want to help those children and yet we don't want to bring increased regulation on ourselves. We won't report anyone because we cannot trust the system, we know the system is likely to go overboard and destroy the family and perhaps other families as well.

 

I have spent a lot of hours on the phone through the years with homeschool moms who just could not get the train on the tracks. I have even tutored a student, free of charge, even supplied the homeschool materials for her. In the end I don't think my investment changed any lives.

 

It's a real problem and unfortunately I do not know of a real solution. I know the same thing is going on in the public schools as well, and I don't know the solution there, either.

 

I think the solution should have been private, voluntary self regulation. We should have figured out a way to support parents and help them when they are clearly failing without being overbearing and harming parents who were indeed succeeding but by a different path. It is a complicated issue and I fear that the government can only handle complicated solutions to simple issues and simple solutions to complicated issues. I would hazard a guess that the government's solution will be to shut the whole thing down, as that would be the simplest solution.

 

What do I know? I live in a state without a homeschool law. We have a memo. No law. Just a memo to govern our homeschool population.

[8filltheheart]

Can I accomplish what my local ps can? I don't know, but I'm trying to figure that out.

 

What I do know is that NO ONE will love or care for my kid's mental, spiritual and emotional health the way that I will. I know that the negative peer pressure in a privileged school district and affluent town can be fierce. And I do know that I want some sort of say in my children's education, and that's not easily accomplished in my district.

 

 

 

First, do you want to accomplish what the local ps can? Personally, I do not consider what is going on in the local ps. I focus on my children's strengths and weaknesses and try to help them achieve what is appropriate for their individual needs.

 

Second, (and Mumztheword, this isn't directed at you. It has come up in several replies and I ended up under you! :) )there is a moral issue on both sides of the decision of homeschooling. Making the decision to keep children at home in order to form them morally and spiritually leaves the parent with the equal moral obligation of educating the child. Dismissing or diminishing that obligation b/c at least they are being morally formed is not a moral good. The obligation exists.

 

It is the latter issue (the mentality that at least they are being morally formed so nothing else matters) where I see the biggest shift in the homeschooling populace. This is not based on observation but serious discussion. (BTW, I am not discussing families in crisis or special needs kids, etc. Nor am I referring to some "educational superiority, but simple educational skills that promote adult work skills) I am referring to families where mom is so burned out that she can no longer deal with teaching but has defined her worldview as "morality and faith are homeschooling" so she has forbidden herself and her family from seeking outside support/help/teaching and justifies it through the POV that at least the children are being morally formed. (this is a generic she, btw.....meaning parallel to the term "man")

 

Moral formation is a huge part of forming children. However, providing children with skills for future independence is also part of the responsibility of becoming the primary educator.

 

People with only littlies may not be able to comprehend the seriousness of the issues I am talking about. I know I couldn't until my kids were older. I used to be in the homeschooling "no matter what" camp. I am not there any more. These little kids become young adults with dreams and hopes and futures and we are responsible for providing them the educational foundation for their goals.

 

I absolutely believe it is possible and achievable. However, I agree with the poster that said it is hard work. It is extremely hard work. The philosophy that they will eventually "teach themselves" is dependent upon the fallen nature of humanity and that children will work even though their desires are to play. Maybe some kids......but certainly not all or even most. Parents have to be ultimately responsible for the teaching role.

 

ETA: BTW, I wrote and deleted this post about 10 times b/c I really suspect I am going to regret posting this. However, I do have a conviction that many homeschoolers feel trapped as their young adults out-pace them or become difficult to teach. Homeschooling is an option. Faith and morals do exist outside of the homeschooling community. Seeking outside educational sources is not a betrayal to child formation.

[8filltheheart]

Kelli,

 

I agree with you! In all respects. I have been avoiding the WTM forums with great discipline, too! I have logged on for a few minutes here and there the last couple of weeks as I have been printing or waiting for other things to load.

 

This one sucked me in, too! Yikes!!

[angela in ohio]

It is the latter issue (the mentality that at least they are being morally formed so nothing else matters) where I see the biggest shift in the homeschooling populace. This is not based on observation but serious discussion. (BTW, I am not discussing families in crisis or special needs kids, etc. Nor am I referring to some "educational superiority, but simple educational skills that promote adult work skills) I am referring to families where mom is so burned out that she can no longer deal with teaching but has defined her worldview as "morality and faith are homeschooling" so she has forbidden herself and her family from seeking outside support/help/teaching and justifies it through the POV that at least the children are being morally formed. (this is a generic she, btw.....meaning parallel to the term "man")

 

 

Wow, I didn't know you lived around here. ;)

 

I see the exact same thing as you, I say the same thing, no one listens... :001_huh:

 

I wish I could rep you again...

[HRAAB]

I agree with momof7 and am glad she posted since she explains herself much more clearly than I would be able to do. I agree with her because I was one of those moms for several years. My mantra was 'heaven not harvard'. Not that heaven isn't a goal; just that it was noble sounding excuse for the fact that homeschooling wasn't happening with any regularity or consistency in my home. And not once did anyone point out my responsibility in educating my children. Rather I was encouraged and supported when I would say, "Well, we haven't done much school the last few months, but their souls are safe." :blush: I had a hundred excuses (my mom passed away, I was nursing my ailing dad, my sister had a breakdown, one of my twins was hospitalized several times, my dh lost his job twice), but the fact remains that my children weren't being educated.

 

Now that I'm back on track, I'm appalled at how lacking we were. Fortunately, my older girls have made it to college in spite of my lack of teaching, but there are chunks missing from their education that they're having to scramble to make up.

 

All of it was done with the best of intentions, but it wasn't the best situation. If I ever found myself faced with those issues again, I would use either the public school system or the parochial schools - if my dh is employed. :001_huh:

 

I think the OP has valid concerns, but I do not want to see state regulation. That frightens me. I don't have any answers and I've got to run. My dh and I are heading to the Shakespeare Festival shortly, but I'll be thinking about this.

 

Janet

 

First, do you want to accomplish what the local ps can? Personally, I do not consider what is going on in the local ps. I focus on my children's strengths and weaknesses and try to help them achieve what is appropriate for their individual needs.

 

Second, (and Mumztheword, this isn't directed at you. It has come up in several replies and I ended up under you! :) )there is a moral issue on both sides of the decision of homeschooling. Making the decision to keep children at home in order to form them morally and spiritually leaves the parent with the equal moral obligation of educating the child. Dismissing or diminishing that obligation b/c at least they are being morally formed is not a moral good. The obligation exists.

 

It is the latter issue (the mentality that at least they are being morally formed so nothing else matters) where I see the biggest shift in the homeschooling populace. This is not based on observation but serious discussion. (BTW, I am not discussing families in crisis or special needs kids, etc. Nor am I referring to some "educational superiority, but simple educational skills that promote adult work skills) I am referring to families where mom is so burned out that she can no longer deal with teaching but has defined her worldview as "morality and faith are homeschooling" so she has forbidden herself and her family from seeking outside support/help/teaching and justifies it through the POV that at least the children are being morally formed. (this is a generic she, btw.....meaning parallel to the term "man")

 

Moral formation is a huge part of forming children. However, providing children with skills for future independence is also part of the responsibility of becoming the primary educator.

 

People with only littlies may not be able to comprehend the seriousness of the issues I am talking about. I know I couldn't until my kids were older. I used to be in the homeschooling "no matter what" camp. I am not there any more. These little kids become young adults with dreams and hopes and futures and we are responsible for providing them the educational foundation for their goals.

 

I absolutely believe it is possible and achievable. However, I agree with the poster that said it is hard work. It is extremely hard work. The philosophy that they will eventually "teach themselves" is dependent upon the fallen nature of humanity and that children will work even though their desires are to play. Maybe some kids......but certainly not all or even most. Parents have to be ultimately responsible for the teaching role.

 

ETA: BTW, I wrote and deleted this post about 10 times b/c I really suspect I am going to regret posting this. However, I do have a conviction that many homeschoolers feel trapped as their young adults out-pace them or become difficult to teach. Homeschooling is an option. Faith and morals do exist outside of the homeschooling community. Seeking outside educational sources is not a betrayal to child formation.

[threetreasurs]

Unfortunately, economics has effected home schoolers in our area; me included. With one in college and a slow economy, I cannot pay for online/community college classes like I did for my oldest. Hence public high school for middle child.

 

I know other families whose elementary children and now in school because the mom had to get a job to make ends meet.

[summer]

I think curriculum available to homeschoolers is far better than what is in the public schools. My own public school teacher sister actually bought things from the homeschool store for this fall because everything they give her at the school is so bad. We are not in a poor district at all and our district spends over 10K per child. I spend way way less, maybe $100 per child, and have far better things.

[Ellie]

LOL! I thought I was going crazy--couldn't figure out the problem!:lol:

[mcconnellboys]

"How is the economics at your home affecting your homeschooling decisions?" Because I had an older son whom I homeschooled, and because I'm a packrat and save everything, I pretty much have all I need to work from even if something happens and for some reason I can't order any curricula for the remaining years that we elect to do this.

 

"Do you think there's been changes in homeschooling that is good or bad over the last 25 years??" Yes, I think that is inevitable over time, with so many more coming into the hsing community. Some of the early people who did this were true visionaries who gave their children highly superb educations. I'm sure there were also some flying under the radar who did a disservice to their children, just as there are today. With the hsing community continuing to grow, I think you'll begin to see more of a common bell curve of median level work from the middle 50% of the student population. Hser's seem right now, however, to be still performing at least somewhat above average on the whole, and I think that's to be expected with a more quiet atmosphere, which is more conducive to learning than many schools.

 

"What do you think of the curriculum that's out there? Good? Bad? Doesn't matter?" Yes, all of the above. Again, with the growing number of things available, there's bound to be a shift toward the median. I've seen some horrible things, full of errors (also in standard publishers who write texts for schools), and some really wonderful things. And there's a lot that's pretty middle of the road, too. I tend never to just hand a text to my child and let them work it alone. I'm constantly talking about what we're studying, tweaking, adding, deleting things, mixing in other elements, etc. I don't think there's any one curriculum out there that is perfect in every way as a stand alone program. I would never teach my child in that way.

 

"Do you think economic changes are going to effect some homeschool family publishers? (It's expensive to publish, just FYI.)" Yes, I believe that some of the smaller houses may have to close if the economy continues to worsen. Perhaps some will look to consolidate with others to create a larger, joint effort business for themselves?

 

"Anyone been around since the beginning of homeschooling?" I'm not sure what time period you're referring to, as I've recently read that there were some folks around hsing in the 40's (Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project, was hs'ed earlier than anyone in recent times I've read about)! Are you thinking '70's and the Holts, perhaps? I think Jessie Wise is the earliest person hsing around these parts who I've met and spoken with (Thanks, Mrs. Wise!) I've been working in the hsing community here for 10 years and it really seems to be continuing to grow very solidly. There are many more kids here continuing to hs through high school and there are a growing number of group opportunities available for them here.

 

Whether or not the economic situation will begin to crimp the ability of families to provide outside activities, classes, etc., I don't know. Hs'ers are a pretty resourceful bunch and always have been - when push comes to shove I feel pretty certain they'll rise to the occasion and come up with innovative ways to continue learning opportunities. Remember, more and more great U.S. universities are beginning to post open courseware online for anyone who wants to study and learn. I can see groups of high school kids banding together to study the same courses with an adult leader, etc.

 

"Is there a possibility that we could become a little, ah, lax and get spoiled a bit with all of the "make it easy to homeschool" material out there?" I think there have always been folks who set out to hs who really don't want to have to do much, themselves. Maybe having more good materials out there will contribute to keeping more of these rather lax folks in the hsing community longer, but if the materials are good and their children are less stressed and are learning more than in whatever school situation they came out of - is that necessarily a bad thing? One can learn from self-study of good books (Lincoln did it), even if one does not have an instructor. Some kids enrolled in public schools have to do this, too, so it's not just occurring within hsing.

 

Good questions!

[titianmom]

THanks so much for throwing in your comments!

 

...there is a moral issue on both sides of the decision of homeschooling. Making the decision to keep children at home in order to form them morally and spiritually leaves the parent with the equal moral obligation of educating the child.

 

I agree. I learned one thing at a parenting class that has always stuck with me. IT's really obvious, but we don't always think about it.

 

When we parent (or choose to homeschool!) we have to think down the road long term, not at the immediate. As far as homeschooling, it is not only preparing the kids spiritually but educationally to have the tools nec to succeed, even if they choose not to work outside the home, they're still better prepared to help their own children if they have a decent education, whether they continue on to college or not.

 

I used to be in the homeschooling "no matter what" camp.

 

However, I do have a conviction that many homeschoolers feel trapped as their young adults out-pace them or become difficult to teach. Homeschooling is an option. Faith and morals do exist outside of the homeschooling community. Seeking outside educational sources is not a betrayal to child formation.

 

I can speak from experience on that one. :iagree: I was diagnosed (finally after several months of suffering) with Psoriatic arthritis in 6 major joints, and let me tell you. laying their on the coach barely able to move, I thought about continuing to homeschool. I could tell my husband was worried for a while, too.

 

And with the meds that I'm on, I don't even read aloud the same as I used to. (It's our favorite bonding thing in the evenings to read a book together.) I stumble all over the page and I used to be a pretty successful dramatic reader in public, for ex. So the effects of this arthritis is real.

 

In addition to the physical problems, my daughter is already starting to distance me in some ways. She's her daddy's girl, that's for sure. She is strong in math and I see the day when dad will have to pick up math in the evening with her, because I won't be able to. Math has never been my thing, and the drugs are making it worse.

 

Thankfully, the pain is under control and I can type again and get around, but there's always the poss of relapse.

 

So, we talk about the future and what's best for the gal, and she just may end up in school some place.

 

The good news is, after they reach a certain age, I believe (and they say this is true) their personalities and self confidence are pretty well formed, and although a child's brain isn't really fully matured until somewhere in the 20s, I believe, they develop their character much earlier than that.

 

So, even if you have to put them in a school where the kids don't believe the way you've taught your children, or the teachers have different worldview than yours, your kids do have a very good chance of "making it" without too much damage ;). (Of course, parenting doesn't end when homeschooling ends...)

 

And they're used to learning at home, so school should actually be quite easy for them academically.

 

So I don't worry over putting her in school. I'd just miss her terribly. :crying:

 

Kim

[titianmom]

What I do know is that NO ONE will love or care for my kid's mental, spiritual and emotional health the way that I will.

 

:)

 

So True!

 

Kim

[titianmom]

We just got the property tax bill today--up $600 from last year.

 

We're being gouged left and right. We're doing okay because we always pay off our cards and we keep a reserve in the bank that we're dipping into. Thank the Lord...

 

January (raise month) can't come too soon, though. Sigh.

 

Kim

 

Unfortunately, economics has effected home schoolers in our area; me included. With one in college and a slow economy, I cannot pay for online/community college classes like I did for my oldest. Hence public high school for middle child.

 

I know other families whose elementary children and now in school because the mom had to get a job to make ends meet.

[titianmom]

""Do you think economic changes are going to effect some homeschool family publishers? (It's expensive to publish, just FYI.)" Yes, I believe that some of the smaller houses may have to close if the economy continues to worsen. Perhaps some will look to consolidate with others to create a larger, joint effort business for themselves?

 

Whether or not the economic situation will begin to crimp the ability of families to provide outside activities, classes, etc., I don't know. Hs'ers are a pretty resourceful bunch and always have been - when push comes to shove I feel pretty certain they'll rise to the occasion and come up with innovative ways to continue learning opportunities. Remember, more and more great U.S. universities are beginning to post open courseware online for anyone who wants to study and learn. I can see groups of high school kids banding together to study the same courses with an adult leader, etc.

 

One can learn from self-study of good books (Lincoln did it), even if one does not have an instructor. Some kids enrolled in public schools have to do this, too, so it's not just occurring within hsing.

 

Good questions!

 

 

To expand on what you've said, I wonder if we'll see the day when we have homeschool mega stores instead of the small teacher stores that are out there. Wouldn't it be nice?

 

But that involves a middle man so the cost could go up. But it's a thought.

 

I haven't been to a curriculum fair in ages. I remember, though, that there's an entry fee to them. True?

 

It's true that there has been a boom in online courses through universities because of the price of gas. I can see networks crashing, maybe with all of the people on the system at once. :001_huh: But seriously, the Internet and distance learning is the future, period.

 

Which brings up another point. In the future, our kids will be going to school virtually, anyway IMHO.

 

What do you think, folks?

 

Lastly, all we have ever needed, IMHO, is the public library system. THANK GOD for Benjamin Franklin, no? I love that guy...

 

Kim

[titianmom]

For financial concerns, I'm not sure that's bad either. I heard Andrew Pudewa discuss the older ways of teaching spelling - oral drill - and how that can have some far superior options compared to the modern workbook style. 150 years ago they did not have piles of cheap consumable books for kids and their education was often superior from it. I have homeschooled on a shoe-string budget, through unemployment of my spouse, cuts in pay and other problems that I would homeschool if there wasn't a dime to do it with. Just give me a library card. OK, that and perhaps a used Saxon book or two. Math is one area I find where unschooling alone is often difficult to gain success.

 

Yep, like I said earlier, thank-you Ben Franklin. :D ...and a decent math textbook. BTW, I do spelling drills aloud at my house. Makes her think...

 

 

I read one comment about parents not seeing the big picture for homeschooling and just letting their kids live in a bubble with bible studies and play groups. For many people the big picture has nothing to do with academics, which our society idolizes anymore. We practically bow down and worship at the feet of anyone in a lab coat. :tongue_smilie: It's also likely these kids aren't as sheltered as it looks. Many think my daughters are sheltered, and in some areas they are, but no one knows of the conversations that go on in our house about many real issues. Kids who watch shows that do not give the truth about consequences of certain behaviors are getting a big dose of another type of sheltering (dangerous) that my daughters would pick up in a heartbeat watching the same thing.

 

Sounds like my house. Sheltered?? Nope.

 

I have been guilty of having starry eyes over lots of letters after a name. But you know, I have a very well-paid brother-in-law exec who flies all over the world every week and he admitted to my husband that he hopes his son does something totally different than he did, like become an artist or something. Something low stress.

 

There's beauty in just loving what you do. Period. It isn't the paycheck or the labcoat/prestige. Just make sure you enjoy your job. So many people have come to hate what they do. It's sad.

 

I happen to also believe in delayed academics, within reason.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, PA'ers, but school isn't compulsory until the child is 8 in that state, correct? There are a lot of theories about development levels, etc and some believe it's better to delay education. That's true.

 

Unfortunately or fortunately for me, don't know, my girl walked up to me at 4 and insisted that I teach her to read with my TCP/IP book in hand. I said okay, found 100 Easy Lessons and off we went. She learned to read so fast that by the time she was ready for kindergarten, dummy mom had already taken her to the library and she'd studied basic science and math, as well, so she didn't fit in the kindergartner class. They were still circling "a"'s at the end of the year.

 

I'm not boasting at all, believe me. Like I said earlier in another post, she's leaving me behind in her dust and I may see the day when I'll have to have dad take over or something. (It's kind of embarrassing to hear her say, "No mom, that's not right." all the time...and she's right and I"ve gotten it wrong again...)

 

....though we still get it about the "sheltered" because they don't fall over and drool when they see a picture of Orlando Bloom, despite loving LOTR. :drool5: Oh well.

 

 

I insist on reading the books first :D. Period. EOS.

 

Someone has said that Christian homeschooled families try to shelter, and like you said, that's true, but we don't shelter them from reality. I can only speak for myself, but I'm glad my dd isn't being pressed into following the latest fads out there or feeling the pressure of not having a boyfriend.

 

I admit I am far more likely to "tsk,tsk" a parent who complains to me about how bad the schools are on their child, the bullying, stress, and other things, only to refuse to do anything about it because they couldn't handle having to homeschool. Usually the comments are something along the line of "I couldn't stand to be with my kids all day." I think there are kids who are better off with a parent indifferent to education, who at least loves him enough to sacrifice and *be there* if he needs it, than a kid whose parent puts him in a good school where his spirit is broken. Perhaps that's also making an unfair judgment and perhaps their comments are just covering up their own insecurities. I'm just stating where my concerns tend to fall, instead of worrying about homeschooling's future.

 

The above was worth repeating...if I"m correct in assuming you're saying that good parenting is more important than homeschooling. Which I agree with. I was PS'd and my mom would stand over me and make me do my homework before I could do anything else. I would cry and say she was sooo mean because everyone else was out playing. GOD love her...

 

Kim

[johnandtinagilbert]

I read one comment about parents not seeing the big picture for homeschooling and just letting their kids live in a bubble with bible studies and play groups. For many people the big picture has nothing to do with academics, which our society idolizes anymore. We practically bow down and worship at the feet of anyone in a lab coat. :tongue_smilie: It's also likely these kids aren't as sheltered as it looks. Many think my daughters are sheltered, and in some areas they are, but no one knows of the conversations that go on in our house about many real issues. Kids who watch shows that do not give the truth about consequences of certain behaviors are getting a big dose of another type of sheltering (dangerous) that my daughters would pick up in a heartbeat watching the same thing.

 

 

though we still get it about the "sheltered" because they don't fall over and drool when they see a picture of Orlando Bloom, despite loving LOTR. :drool5:

 

I agree with you about the labcoat, but that's not what I meant by the big picture & sheltering. I understand academics are not the be all end all. I do think, diligence and growth matter and there is a difference in gentle and lazy. I guess I wasn't clear. Sorry.

 

I really know people whose priorities are play dates, field trips, personal bible studies (I meant moms, not kids) and whose children, like 5th graders live in the bubble and have no idea about the world they will soon be entering - don't know people are hungry - don't know there are kids who actually have needs - don't know that there are kids struggling to pay for the college education they personally have a college fund for. It makes me sad that these children are not only getting very little education (cuz mom's too busy leading the same life she would if they were off to school), but also have no clue about life outside of themselves and their bubble. The two combined, imo, are an abuse of home schooling.

 

I fully agree with keeping my children clear of pop culture, they know about it from friends, and our time at an outreach center for children, but pop culture is not part of our lives. We know about Miley Cyrus, but don't care to watch her show. My children are aware and understand why we stay away. (3rd grade and up, they choose to stay away) Personally, I am glad they were home when they were young so we could fashion a strong foundation, but as they get older, I am thankful they are aware of the real world, outside of the bubble because they are getting the chance to make decisions with very watchful guidance. If they fall, we are so here to pick them up, when they walk well, we know we can move along to something else.

 

I get this is a parenting style, it just crosses over into the home school world b/c some people specifically home school to keep their kids out of the world, then educate their children poorly. I see the watchful eye and intervention as a perk, if you will, to home schooling. I find that others see sheltering as the purpose of home schooling, so the academic area (rigid or moderate) falls to the wayside. I would have to be just as aware if my circumstances changed and my kids had to go away to school. To me, that's just good parenting.

 

For what it's worth, in this circumstance, I'm not assuming. I have witnessed several families, as I worked with them for a few years in co-op leadership, spending a lot of time with them and their children, poorly educate. The moms call and ask for help. I have tutored. I share materials. Still, other commitments supersede school. I believe, if you stand up and say, "I'm a home schooler!" Then you should school, and whatever you do, do it as unto the Lord.

 

Thanks for your comments. The worst things about cyberspace communication, you lose tone and often intent, and you just don't really know the fruits of the people you're talking to.

 

best wishes,

[johnandtinagilbert]

First, do you want to accomplish what the local ps can? Personally, I do not consider what is going on in the local ps. I focus on my children's strengths and weaknesses and try to help them achieve what is appropriate for their individual needs.

 

Second, (and Mumztheword, this isn't directed at you. It has come up in several replies and I ended up under you! :) )there is a moral issue on both sides of the decision of homeschooling. Making the decision to keep children at home in order to form them morally and spiritually leaves the parent with the equal moral obligation of educating the child. Dismissing or diminishing that obligation b/c at least they are being morally formed is not a moral good. The obligation exists.

 

It is the latter issue (the mentality that at least they are being morally formed so nothing else matters) where I see the biggest shift in the homeschooling populace. This is not based on observation but serious discussion. (BTW, I am not discussing families in crisis or special needs kids, etc. Nor am I referring to some "educational superiority, but simple educational skills that promote adult work skills) I am referring to families where mom is so burned out that she can no longer deal with teaching but has defined her worldview as "morality and faith are homeschooling" so she has forbidden herself and her family from seeking outside support/help/teaching and justifies it through the POV that at least the children are being morally formed. (this is a generic she, btw.....meaning parallel to the term "man")

 

Moral formation is a huge part of forming children. However, providing children with skills for future independence is also part of the responsibility of becoming the primary educator.

 

People with only littlies may not be able to comprehend the seriousness of the issues I am talking about. I know I couldn't until my kids were older. I used to be in the homeschooling "no matter what" camp. I am not there any more. These little kids become young adults with dreams and hopes and futures and we are responsible for providing them the educational foundation for their goals.

 

I absolutely believe it is possible and achievable. However, I agree with the poster that said it is hard work. It is extremely hard work. The philosophy that they will eventually "teach themselves" is dependent upon the fallen nature of humanity and that children will work even though their desires are to play. Maybe some kids......but certainly not all or even most. Parents have to be ultimately responsible for the teaching role.

 

ETA: BTW, I wrote and deleted this post about 10 times b/c I really suspect I am going to regret posting this. However, I do have a conviction that many homeschoolers feel trapped as their young adults out-pace them or become difficult to teach. Homeschooling is an option. Faith and morals do exist outside of the homeschooling community. Seeking outside educational sources is not a betrayal to child formation.

 

Excellent post.:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[titianmom]

Still, other commitments supersede school. I believe, if you stand up and say, "I'm a home schooler!" Then you should school, and whatever you do, do it as unto the Lord.

 

best wishes,

 

I think the danger with Christianity and Christians in general is we have a tendency to separate the secular from the spiritual, and in God's eyes, everything we do is spiritual, even learning our math.

 

As you said, Do everything as unto the Lord.

 

Thanks!

 

Kim