Nanny State now wants to push nursing

[Mommyfaithe]

 

I don't understand why corporate greed gets a pass. But it always does.

 

Why do the formula companies hand out formula without cost? Because they plan on getting massive returns on that investment. It's not some random goodwill gesture. They aren't looking out for me, either.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[SKL]

Especially given that plenty of people are not savvy or well educated enough to see through advertisers pushing something that benefits the corporation. Look at how many people think/thought it was fine to take out a huge loan bc the bank/credit card offered. The state of financial literacy is so poor that people end up only getting advice from those selling it.

 

 

The only way such people are going to get "savvy" is by taking risks, making mistakes, and dealing with natural consequences. Not by protecting them from selected frames of reality and subsidizing the results of their mistakes.

 

You know, if WIC stopped covering formula, you'd be amazed how fast the breastfeeding stats in NY would improve.

[NASDAQ]

Mayor Bloomberg gives the persistent impression of not having enough to do.

 

I personally prefer his suggestion that police officers go on strike until the masses embrace gun control. Yup, that sounds like a good idea. Do you think that if the police go off duty en masse, that gun sales will go up, or down?

[TranquilMind]

Bloomberg strikes again:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/29/nyc-mayor-wants-hospitals-to-lock-up-baby-formula-to-encourage-breast-feeding/?test=latestnews

 

I'm all for breastfeeding and encouraging new moms to nurse. I nursed both of my boys and I plan to nurse this one who's on the way. I think it's good for medical staff to make sure new moms know their options and how to get started nursing if they want to nurse. I think it's probably ok to even ask a new mom if she's considered bf'ing and offer help if she wants to try. But giving moms who choose to formula-feed a "talking to" and locking up formula like a controlled substance?? Requiring documentation of a medical reason for every bottle a newborn receives?

 

Making hospitals and staff more bf'ing friendly, making sure they're trained to help new moms who need assistance with bf'ing, even cutting down on the formula marketing in hospitals--those are great ideas. But this is ridiculous. Bottom line is that IT IS THE MOTHER'S CHOICE, period, and it's not their place to guilt her or pressure her to change her mind. If I were a New Yorker, I'd have two words for Bloomberg et al: BUTT OUT!!

It's just so weird! 16 years ago when I had a child at home, other Moms were telling me that the hospital sent home all sorts of gifts and formula from the manufacturers. Strange how what is politically appropriate changes.

[nmoira]

Isn't this why sugar is never decried as being unhealthy, and everyone rants and raves on here about the influence of the sugar industry?

I think you would have liked the ad campaign run by our county last year. Pictured is the woman in charge of the program.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

I never said it was. I was responding to the implication that it's better to let the state legislate our personal behavior than to let corporations market to us.

 

Nobody is making formula feeding illegal. Therefore, personal behavior is not being legislated. That is the sort of untrue rhetoric that I was talking about.

 

What is being legislated? The ability of formula companies to advertise without anyone countering that information. Educating people about the consequences of their actions is not the same as forcing it on anyone.

[SKL]

Nobody is making formula feeding illegal. Therefore, personal behavior is not being legislated. That is the sort of untrue rhetoric that I was talking about.

 

What is being legislated? The ability of formula companies to advertise without anyone countering that information. Educating people about the consequences of their actions is not the same as forcing it on anyone.

 

I was responding to Stripe's specific comment.

 

By the way, speaking of "untrue," where do you get the bolded? Of course that information can be and has been countered in all sorts of ways. Which law prevents that?

[Mrs Mungo]

I was responding to Stripe's specific comment.

 

By the way, speaking of "untrue," where do you get the bolded? Of course that information can be and has been countered in all sorts of ways. Which law prevents that?

 

I am happy to rephrase.

 

When my eldest dd was born I received a package with formula and a book on breastfeeding from the formula company. It contained many inaccuracies and many comments in the line of, "for modesty's sake, most women will not want to breastfeed in public, formula is a great alternative." Do organizations like La Leche League put out information that counters that sort of thing? Sure, they do. Was that information offered *at the government funded hospital*? No, it wasn't. That is the change that the mayor is seeking, as far as I can tell.

[Slartibartfast]

I think I misunderstood someone's wording.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ugh..I want to like this, but I still have trouble with statements like this. Is it all the sugar? Is it the extra calories? What is it REALLY? I feel like a lot of groups make claims left and right, but I don't see much real evidence I can believe in.

 

 

Type 2 diabetes is not caused by sugar. So yes, they've over simplified things and in doing so are giving out misinformation. So many of these campaigns seem to do that.

[PeacefulChaos]

Bloomberg strikes again:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/29/nyc-mayor-wants-hospitals-to-lock-up-baby-formula-to-encourage-breast-feeding/?test=latestnews

 

I'm all for breastfeeding and encouraging new moms to nurse. I nursed both of my boys and I plan to nurse this one who's on the way. I think it's good for medical staff to make sure new moms know their options and how to get started nursing if they want to nurse. I think it's probably ok to even ask a new mom if she's considered bf'ing and offer help if she wants to try. But giving moms who choose to formula-feed a "talking to" and locking up formula like a controlled substance?? Requiring documentation of a medical reason for every bottle a newborn receives?

 

Making hospitals and staff more bf'ing friendly, making sure they're trained to help new moms who need assistance with bf'ing, even cutting down on the formula marketing in hospitals--those are great ideas. But this is ridiculous. Bottom line is that IT IS THE MOTHER'S CHOICE, period, and it's not their place to guilt her or pressure her to change her mind. If I were a New Yorker, I'd have two words for Bloomberg et al: BUTT OUT!!

 

I couldn't agree more!! I think it is overstepping - big time. No one has the right to tell these women how to feed their babies, or to strong arm them into something they don't want. Ugh. It disgusts me.

[SKL]

I am happy to rephrase.

 

When my eldest dd was born I received a package with formula and a book on breastfeeding from the formula company. It contained many inaccuracies and many comments in the line of, "for modesty's sake, most women will not want to breastfeed in public, formula is a great alternative." Do organizations like La Leche League put out information that counters that sort of thing? Sure, they do. Was that information offered *at the government funded hospital*? No, it wasn't. That is the change that the mayor is seeking, as far as I can tell.

 

It seems your eldest is 16. A lot has changed since then, and not because of Bloomberg.

 

I mentioned early on that I don't have a problem with the policy. I was merely responding to a PP who suggested we need the state to "look out for us" because for-profit corporations don't. As if we are incapable of looking out for ourselves.

 

Anecdote time. My mom had her first (as a 19yo with a 9th-grade education) in 1963. In those days everyone knew that formula was best. My mom was pressured quite a bit to take the shot and not breastfeed. She was given false information, and her baby was fed without her permission. Why didn't she just go along with it all? Because, in her words, "I read." Mind you, there was no internet in those days, she didn't even have a driver's license let alone a car, and my folks were practically eating dirt. But she figured out a way to find literature and read it. And she asserted herself against the nurses and doctors (and public opinion) and breastfed her kids. She loves that now she's vindicated, but the fact is that every woman is born with a brain and ought to use it.

[PeacefulChaos]

I have no problem with it.

Article

 

The aggressive marketing of formula to new mothers is sickening.

 

I have not witnessed that firsthand. In my experience it has always been the opposite, which is equally annoying and infuriating.

When I chose to FF, I did receive the free formula in the bag when I left, but I had already chosen by that point - I chose long before the kids we born. There wasn't much info in there that I remember, and definitely nothing promoting FFing.

Around here people are obnoxiously pro-BF. to each their own, but I don't like when people try to force their own decisions on me. :glare:

[8circles]

It seems your eldest is 16. A lot has changed since then, and not because of Bloomberg.

 

I mentioned early on that I don't have a problem with the policy. I was merely responding to a PP who suggested we need the state to "look out for us" because for-profit corporations don't. As if we are incapable of looking out for ourselves.

 

Anecdote time. My mom had her first (as a 19yo with a 9th-grade education) in 1963. In those days everyone knew that formula was best. My mom was pressured quite a bit to take the shot and not breastfeed. She was given false information, and her baby was fed without her permission. Why didn't she just go along with it all? Because, in her words, "I read." Mind you, there was no internet in those days, she didn't even have a driver's license let alone a car, and my folks were practically eating dirt. But she figured out a way to find literature and read it. And she asserted herself against the nurses and doctors (and public opinion) and breastfed her kids. She loves that now she's vindicathed, but the fact is that every woman is born with a brain and ought to use it.

 

My kids are 2-9. I received the same propaganda from formula companies that mrs mungo described each time. Not much has changed.

[8circles]

Let me explain block feeding a little better. Because, if you do it right, then it should not put you at that sort of risk.

 

At 7 am baby is hungry. You offer the left breast first, let baby eat as much as they can, then offer the right breast. If you have overactive letdown, then you would want to hand-express both sides a little before beginning; this is to relieve engorgement and to help keep baby from projectile vomiting from gulping too fast.

 

At 9 am baby is hungry again, so you offer the left breast first again, then the right breast second again.

 

At 11 am and 1 pm you offer the right breast first and the left second.

 

And so forth.

 

You offer both at every feeding, but by offering *mostly* one side over 4 or 5 hours, you are sending a signal that baby does not need quite so much.

 

Cabbage also works to help relieve engorgement and overproduction.

 

Good advice. However, I think it depends on the severity of oversupply. I literally only offered one breast for every feeding over the course of 4-6 hours. Anything else and I was drowning my babies. I think its rare but there are a few of us who could feed a whole orphanage of babies if necessary.

[nmoira]

Type 2 diabetes is not caused by sugar. So yes, they've over simplified things and in doing so are giving out misinformation. So many of these campaigns seem to do that.

Both obesity and sugar consumption are linked with Type 2 diabetes, obesity the more strongly IIRC. I wasn't aware that this is a controversial statement.

[PeacefulChaos]

Interesting. I guess I'd have to know how heavy-handed they are going to be when they "talk to" new mothers about breastfeeding. Considering that moms only stay in the hospital for about a day nowadays (normally), it should not be that big of a burden.

 

Also, could a mom not bring her own newborn formula if she'd already decided that formula was her choice for feeding her baby? I mean, you bring the clothes to dress your baby in etc., why not the formula if you're not planning to breastfeed?

 

Could this be a measure to offset the hospitals' historical lack of enthusiasm for breasfeeding, which often leads to frustration for moms who actually do want to nurse?

 

As far as WIC goes - if it is related, and maybe it is - I can kind of see that too. I know that some kids can't breastfeed for a lot of reasons, but a high percentage of moms receiving WIC formula could breastfeed. In those cases, formula is a luxury which is not the point of the WIC program. There are many people of modest means who consider formula-feeding an unnecessary expense except in certain cases.

 

And I know the next argument is going to be "but nobody should have to be singled out because of their poverty or physical issue." But people get singled out all the time for all kinds of things. I mean, shoot, you just had a baby in front of a roomful of strangers; now you're going to get concerned about privacy?

 

I'd put it in the same category as me being told that I ought to have a PAP test. "Thanks, next question?"

 

But what's disturbing to me is that this is the mayor of New York. The policy itself does not bother me but what is he doing telling hospitals what to do? What's next? Sterilization recommendations? (That's jumping a few steps, but the thought process is similar.)

 

They pay for food for a BFing mother, too.

And the fact that a woman 'can' BF doesn't mean that she has to. :glare:

[SKL]

My kids are 2-9. I received the same propaganda from formula companies that mrs mungo described each time. Not much has changed.

 

Maybe it's a regional thing. Around here, they ask the mom what her plans are before the baby is born, and they support that. My sister has a 1yo and 2yo who were breastfed and she was supported to make that work. When yer 1yo was in NICU for months, they strongly encouraged her to keep up the pumping even though it was getting difficult. They said she was increasing her daughter's chance at life. So, not a formula spiel by any stretch.

[Mrs Mungo]

It seems your eldest is 16. A lot has changed since then, and not because of Bloomberg.

 

Maybe you missed the part where I was involved with new and/or breastfeeding moms for many, many years in a variety of states and in another country?

 

I mentioned early on that I don't have a problem with the policy. I was merely responding to a PP who suggested we need the state to "look out for us" because for-profit corporations don't. As if we are incapable of looking out for ourselves.

 

Anecdote time. My mom had her first (as a 19yo with a 9th-grade education) in 1963. In those days everyone knew that formula was best. My mom was pressured quite a bit to take the shot and not breastfeed. She was given false information, and her baby was fed without her permission. Why didn't she just go along with it all? Because, in her words, "I read." Mind you, there was no internet in those days, she didn't even have a driver's license let alone a car, and my folks were practically eating dirt. But she figured out a way to find literature and read it. And she asserted herself against the nurses and doctors (and public opinion) and breastfed her kids. She loves that now she's vindicated, but the fact is that every woman is born with a brain and ought to use it.

 

Not everyone is given the same amount of brainpower at birth. Not everyone is taught critical thinking skills or how to read critically. I like the government to protect the weak. If you don't want the government influencing what goes on in its own hospitals, then maybe we should at least ban any and all corporate influence? Free pads with drug names on them, free formula, free "help books" sent home with moms, etc?

 

Good advice. However, I think it depends on the severity of oversupply. I literally only offered one breast for every feeding over the course of 4-6 hours. Anything else and I was drowning my babies. I think its rare but there are a few of us who could feed a whole orphanage of babies if necessary.

 

I could have. My middle dd regularly spit up COLOSTRUM (it was orange, so clearly colostrum) because I had so much. It was crazy. The nurses were amazed.

[Slartibartfast]

Maybe it's a regional thing. Around here, they ask the mom what her plans are before the baby is born, and they support that. My sister has a 1yo and 2yo who were breastfed and she was supported to make that work. When yer 1yo was in NICU for months, they strongly encouraged her to keep up the pumping even though it was getting difficult. They said she was increasing her daughter's chance at life. So, not a formula spiel by any stretch.

 

With my eldest I told them I was breastfeeding and they gave me formula.

 

When I had my son he was in the NICU at a Children's hospital, I was given a breastpump and I used it faithfully.

[nmoira]

I could have. My middle dd regularly spit up COLOSTRUM (it was orange, so clearly colostrum) because I had so much. It was crazy. The nurses were amazed.

I could have creamed a coffee from across the room. Poor kids. For the first year for each, I'd have to nurse from one side only in six hour blocks. They never made it to the other breast to "finish" off.

[Slartibartfast]

 

Not everyone is given the same amount of brainpower at birth. Not everyone is taught critical thinking skills or how to read critically. I like the government to protect the weak. If you don't want the government influencing what goes on in its own hospitals, then maybe we should at least ban any and all corporate influence? Free pads with drug names on them, free formula, free "help books" sent home with moms, etc?

 

:iagree:

 

I am all about getting some government in there.

 

If more women breastfed it would save us billions of dollars in healthcare costs. If people are all freaking out about how much the government spends why are they against things that will save money?

 

Breastfeeding promotion will allow the Department to ensure cost-effective use of health care resources. The cost savings of breastfeeding due to reduction in illness, associated medical visits and hospitalization for infants and their mother are important for health care programs. It has been estimated that two to four billion health care dollars could be saved annually in the United States if all women breastfed their infants for as little as 12 weeks. (This estimation of savings does not include money saved by families not buying artificial baby milk nor the cost savings related to the environmental benefits of breastfeeding.) Looking only at ear infections, infants who are exclusively breastfed for at least four months are half as likely as artificially fed infants to have ear infections during the first year of life. Fewer visits to physicians for ear infection offer tremendous savings in time, money, and emotional trauma for families and the health care system.

 

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/healthinfo/healthyliving/childfamily/Pages/DHSBreastfeedingPromotionPolicy.aspx

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[tabrizia]

It seems your eldest is 16. A lot has changed since then, and not because of Bloomberg.

 

My oldest is 1, I got the same misinformation packet at the hospital. It was in the "breastfeeding bag". They did switch between my 5 and 3 year old from only having one bag, to having a formula one or a breastfeeding one. There really wasn't much difference from what I could tell. The breastfeeding one still came with formula samples, misinformation and a bunch of formula coupons.

 

No one was against me breastfeeding, but the lactation people at the hospital were not overly knowledgeable either and no one was overly helpful either, even when I did need some minor help with my 5 year old.

[PeacefulChaos]

Also, it's Fox News. :001_rolleyes: I'd like to see what kind of "talking to" they actually have in mind.

 

Gimme a break! It is Fox "News" at their old game of manipulating the easy outraged.

 

How many times are y'all going to fall for it before you wise up?

 

Sheez.

 

Bill

Um, for the record, I heard this last night on the news - NOT fox - and they said the same thing.

My thoughts exactly. :iagree: Such anger and bitterness from their side.

From whose side? Are you talking about fox or about FF/BF?

That was like it was for me. I had nothing. NOTHING. to offer my ds when he was born and not for a full 4 days afterward. I mean nothing, not even a single drop of colostrum. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

 

Yet the nurses kept pushing me to bf. I finally told dh to go out and buy some pre-mix formula and a bottle. A dear sil went with him and they smuggled it in to me. I told the nurse who tried to confiscate it that she could go f*** herself because I wasn't going to sit there and let my baby starve.

 

2 days after I went home, my milk finally came in and I pumped what little I had for him, but he got it in a bottle.

 

I hate the LLL gestapo and their bf at all costs agenda.

:iagree: I can't stand it.

My experience was the opposite. They made me feel like I was killing my child for FF. Trust me, that did not make me want to change my mind. They even had a poster in my room that claimed BF made your baby smarter and insinuating FF made him have a lower IQ.

 

I went to a practice with 5 midwives. I had one get very nasty towards me because of my decision to FF. Thankfully I didn't end up with her at the birth.

:iagree:

Im not going to bother to read the whole thread and respond but breastfeeding IS the business of the govt bc its a public health issue.

How is that? No one has the right to try to strong arm anyone when it comes to how they feed their kids. That's....idk....horrid to even imagine.

What the PP poster said about ff being similar to a mother smoking by a child is simply ridiculous and outrageous.

I have exclusively FF. I would be incredibly angry if someone tried to lecture me about it. Yes, I did have medical reasons but I am sure that someone out there would also decide that my pain, my problems with using my hands and feet, and other issues like that just weren't serious enough for FF.

 

Look, I am all for everyone getting information. If my daughter's have kids, I will see how they are and if they are fine, encourage bf. But it will be their choice and I will take their preferences and honor them. One in particular may very well not be able to BF since I think she will need to be on blood thinners after birth. But that will be up to her doctor at the time.

 

Anyway, I don't care if they don't bf simply because they don't want to. I am thrilled they had the baby and didn't abort.

 

Oh and Fox News is so biased but the NY Times and CNN are not????? Are you kidding me?

 

One final note, under Nanny Bloomberg's plan, would I still be able to get a large (over 16 oz) unsweetened iced tea, which has no calories and isn;t any type of health problem causing substance at all.

 

:iagree:

Oh, and I think a lot of stuff regarding BFing is propaganda, as well. Sorry, but I don't buy into the IQ thing in particular. I honestly don't even remember what all of them are, but I don't see how they can say all that stuff is evidence.

 

I don't think breast is best. I think breast is natural. But I think formula is just as good of a choice.

Edited July 30, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Slartibartfast]

Oh, and I think a lot of stuff regarding BFing is propaganda, as well. Sorry, but I don't buy into the IQ thing in particular. I honestly don't even remember what all of them are, but I don't see how they can say all that stuff is evidence.

 

I don't think breast is best. I think breast is natural. But I think formula is just as good of a choice.

 

 

Science disagrees with you.

 

 

Breastfeeding is not only better for the baby but for the mom too.

 

I am armed with 500 links should you require them. :)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[PeacefulChaos]

Science disagrees with you.

 

 

Breastfeeding is not only better for the baby but for the mom too.

 

I am armed with 500 links should you require them. :)

 

Had I known at the time that BFing was better for me, I may have considered it more.

But know this - what turned me off to it was the over abundance of pushy BFing advocates. Constantly telling me what was best, how my kid would be dumb (impossible to prove), how it's so much better for bonding (lies and stupidity), etc, etc. there may be some accurate things that prove the 'best' argument, but the bottom line is that what is best for ME and MY family is all that matters.

[Slartibartfast]

Had I known at the time that BFing was better for me, I may have considered it more.

But know this - what turned me off to it was the over abundance of pushy BFing advocates. Constantly telling me what was best, how my kid would be dumb (impossible to prove), how it's so much better for bonding (lies and stupidity), etc, etc. there may be some accurate things that prove the 'best' argument, but the bottom line is that what is best for ME and MY family is all that matters.

 

Here's an article from Scientific American regarding the benefits to the Mother.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=breastfeeding-benefits-mothers

 

No one is arguing about what is best for individual families. You did dispute some facts so I commented. It has nothing to do with your choices.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[Mrs Mungo]

but the bottom line is that what is best for ME and MY family is all that matters.

 

It is strange that La Leche League's name was drug through the mud in this thread because they are big on every woman doing what is best for her family, along with meeting people where they are. Granted, not every *individual* is skilled at that, but the organization as a whole cannot help that.

 

I was once flamed *really bad* (nothing like you people ever see here, I mean real flaming) on an AP list because I suggested that a mom who was hearing voices and having violent ideations was better off weaning and going back on her lithium. For that mother-baby pair, breastfeeding was the wrong answer. It isn't always the right answer and it isn't always possible. Not every breastfeeding advocate recognizes this, but most do.

[PeacefulChaos]

Here's an article from Scientific American regarding the benefits to the Mother.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=breastfeeding-benefits-mothers

 

No one is arguing about what is best for individual families. You did dispute some facts so I commented. It has nothing to do with your choices.

And I still do think some of the stuff is bogus. I will read the link shortly, I don't have time at the moment - but I will say that I do know now that the are benefits to the mom. I have a sil who is a (non pushy) breast feeding counselor, or she used to be anyway, and she told me about the stuff as she was trying to decide for herself. Had someone been the way she was, I would have considered it more, as she wasn't judgmental and 100% thinks that what I chose was just as good as BFing. But instead I was bullied and having so called facts thrown at me like I was an idiot. It doesn't foster a good relationship or begin to open someone's mind to something - it just made me think those people were psycho and that I wantd to stay as far away from them as possible. Sad but true.

It is strange that La Leche League's name was drug through the mud in this thread because they are big on every woman doing what is best for her family, along with meeting people where they are. Granted, not every *individual* is skilled at that, but the organization as a whole cannot help that.

 

I was once flamed *really bad* (nothing like you people ever see here, I mean real flaming) on an AP list because I suggested that a mom who was hearing voices and having violent ideations was better off weaning and going back on her lithium. For that mother-baby pair, breastfeeding was the wrong answer. It isn't always the right answer and it isn't always possible. Not every breastfeeding advocate recognizes this, but most do.

 

I actually don't know much about lll - I have no idea if the people I ran into were lll people or not. :)

[justLisa]

AND the lack of support. Those who freak out if they see you BF at the park, museum, or store. Those who say you should sit in a bathroom stall or cover your baby's head with a blanket.

 

I mean now that I'm old and b*itchy I could easily tell someone to buzz off. In the beginning I was pretty nervous. I did not have any experience. I didn't have a single woman in my life. I figured every person in my life was FF and doing fine so it certainly didn't appear to be the gloom and doom I was told it was.

 

It makes a huge difference where you live. It is the thing to do here. When I was in one part of Texas when DD was a baby I felt totally different and I can see how it doesn't work out for some.

 

Don't people get that support and being nice is the best way to treat new moms :confused:

 

I hope my sister BF's. But, I can really see how it may go the other way. SHe is very open to that. I am not the pushy type and I just think every woman should know what her body was intended to do, without having to feel like if she needs different for some reason she is a bad mom.

 

I have read all of those research studies as well. Some of them make me think meh.....I know plenty of FF now adults. DH is some kinda genius himself :D

[Slartibartfast]

And I still do think some of the stuff is bogus. I will read the link shortly, I don't have time at the moment - but I will say that I do know now that the are benefits to the mom. I have a sil who is a (non pushy) breast feeding counselor, or she used to be anyway, and she told me about the stuff as she was trying to decide for herself. Had someone been the way she was, I would have considered it more, as she wasn't judgmental and 100% thinks that what I chose was just as good as BFing. But instead I was bullied and having so called facts thrown at me like I was an idiot. It doesn't foster a good relationship or begin to open someone's mind to something - it just made me think those people were psycho and that I wantd to stay as far away from them as possible. Sad but true.

 

 

 

I have severe allergies (one of them is an allergy to dairy), an autoimmune condition and asthma.

 

For me to not have nursed would have been flat out irresponsible. Breastfeeding does help with those issues.

 

Bonding and IQ are debatable but those were never the primary reasons that I nursed. There have been numerous studies regarding the benefits to the immune system which cannot be disputed. My kids don't have allergies thus I think I am a superhero. :lol:

 

Not everyone has the same issues I do. One cannot possibly know everyone's situation. *shrug*

 

I don't know why every breastfeeding story has to become a debate about breastfeeding. No matter how you were treated or what your individual issues are, increasing the breastfeeding rates are better for our society as a whole. That is something of which we should all be in favor.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[Laurie4b]

It's not the government's business, however, hospitals should be more helpful and mothers should be encouraged to at least try. With dd i given about 10 minutes to try breastfeeding before a nurse whisked her away, annoyed and said she needed a bottle.

 

Absolutely.:iagree:

 

The people they will be encouraging/pushing or not tend to be low-income. Right now, things are totally geared toward bottle-feeding. The babies are often the ones who could really benefit from the handful of extra IQ points that breastfeeding can give AND the time to bond with mom rather than be propped up with a bottle somewhere AND the more sanitary nature of breast-feeding. (I have seen my share of little ones toting around a bottle in which the milk had coagulated.)

 

I had a former foster daughter who was WILLING to breast feed. They were so hot to give her that shot that prevents pregnancy for several months (AND keeps a mother from breast-feeding) that they never really helped her even attempt breast-feeding. By the time she got to our house and asked to be shown, it was too late.

 

On the other hand they've been pushing birth control on new moms for years--like since before I gave birth 2o years ago. After giving birth the first time, I had a fever. I had to tell the nurse I was supposed to be getting antibiotics. I had to ask for an ice pack for my poor swollen self. Then I had to ask for the heating pad. I had to tell them that the antibiotics were done and I was supposed to get the IV removed. But every. single. person who entered my door asked me about birth control. One resident came in and said in this exact order: "Has anyone talked with you about birth control yet? My name is Dr. ___. How are you feeling?"

"Something like road rage--and you?" ( No, I didn't actually say it!) I finally blew up and told the umpteenth person who asked that we had had trouble conceiving and if the next egg down the tubes was the one that got fertilized, that's the one we wanted. They left me alone after that. Oh, and I went home not knowing how to properly clean my son's umbilical cord, but had been encountered a movie on the rolling ones for new moms on how abortion as a safe and legal option in case of an unwanted pregnancy. :confused:

 

So, yeah, they sure do PUSH when there is an agenda.

[PeacefulChaos]

I have severe allergies (one of them is an allergy to dairy), an autoimmune condition and asthma.

 

For me to not have nursed would have been flat out irresponsible. Breastfeeding does help with those issues.

 

Bonding and IQ are debatable but those were never the primary reasons that I nursed. There have been numerous studies regarding the benefits to the immune system which cannot be disputed. My kids don't have allergies thus I think I am a superhero. :lol:

 

Not everyone has the same issues I do. One cannot possibly know everyone's situation. *shrug*

 

Agreed.

Anecdotal, but I have friends whose kids were BF exclusively who have asthma and allergies, and two of mine (FF) don't. I think that we can all find anecdotal 'evidence' for anything we want to. (Not saying you are, just saying that in general - I had several people tell me they were convinced that BF/FF is why one of their kids had allergies and the other didn't. It's entirely possible, but there's no way they can know that for sure, kwim?)

I do know that I get feisty about this proposed action because of the 'talking to' about the benefits that is referenced (which I did not hear on Fox news, fyi ;) :D :lol: ) - I worry that there will be those who approach it the way people did when I was pregnant. They may think they are getting better numbers, but I would be worried there are some who are doing it for the wrong reasons - because they were bullied into it. That may be way off base, but with my experience I can't help but think that or wonder, at least.

Had the information been presented to me as a pregnant mom in a different manner, it is entirely possible that I would have done it, if not with my oldest then maybe with the younger two. (I actually did consider it with Pink, but the hospital staff advised me of the difficulty it would provide for me, recovering from a c-section, and her being in the NICU. By all means it would be possible, but there were some things I had to consider that finally swayed my choice toward not doing it. I just didn't think I could recover, drive 1.5 hours each way to the hospital every day, and wake up during the night to pump and try to keep a supply for her when she finally did begin to eat. She is the only one I even considered, and DH and I considered it at the time because we did wonder if it would be better for her. Anyway, I said all that just to say that I do know that everyone is different and that sometimes BF works out better, etc. I'm very thankful, though, for the support given to me by the NICU staff who just told me - matter of factly - that they would love for me to, BUT that I shouldn't feel like I had to, because she would do great on either. :) )

[justLisa]

Yeah there is just no winning. I am so glad I was totally naive when DS was born. I didn't even know there were books on parenting and that kind of thing. I had a horrible time at first with DS. The wife of DH's best friend was SO kind to me. SHe is the sole reason I kept BFing DS. I didn't even know her and they live across country. She was so non threatening and helpful. She was already on baby #2 and had some trouble in the beginning herself. Dh felt bad for me and just asked if she had any advice.

 

Now days there is so much pressure to do everything and many moms have to work. I don't know how I would be gone AND pump. PUmping was awful when I tried it when DD was a baby.

[PeacefulChaos]

The people they will be encouraging/pushing or not tend to be low-income. Right now, things are totally geared toward bottle-feeding. The babies are often the ones who could really benefit from the handful of extra IQ points that breastfeeding can give AND the time to bond with mom rather than be propped up with a bottle somewhere AND the more sanitary nature of breast-feeding. (I have seen my share of little ones toting around a bottle in which the milk had coagulated.)

 

 

There is one thing, though - should some people, who do not take care of themselves (NOT saying this would be low-income in general, though), be encouraged to breastfeed? :leaving:

I ask because there are some moms out there who can't wait to start smoking again (or smoked during pregnancy, even) - who don't eat well at all - who want to drink and even do some other less-than-legal substances. Should they be encouraged to breastfeed?

When I had Link, I was awakened the morning after his birth to a girl SCREAMING at nurses to bring her her baby so she could breastfeed it. They kept saying they couldn't do that, she kept yelling. Finally the doctor came in and told her that because of the high levels of drugs found in her system (and the baby's, I assume), they wouldn't let her breastfeed.

Maybe that's an affront to her rights - Idk. But I do think it was the right thing to do. I know some may not agree.

(Oh, and I asked to be moved to a different room about 20 minutes later, and the staff happily obliged. :D :lol: )

[Slartibartfast]

Agreed.

Anecdotal, but I have friends whose kids were BF exclusively who have asthma and allergies, and two of mine (FF) don't. I think that we can all find anecdotal 'evidence' for anything we want to. (Not saying you are, just saying that in general - I had several people tell me they were convinced that BF/FF is why one of their kids had allergies and the other didn't. It's entirely possible, but there's no way they can know that for sure, kwim?)

 

I guess my comment would be anecdotal if it wasn't backed by research.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111014104404.htm

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/03/us-breastfeeding-lungs-idUSTRE8120EF20120203

 

Genetics play a major role in allergies. If your children are not genetically predisposed towards allergies then it is not surprising that they do not have them.

 

 

 

I do know that I get feisty about this proposed action because of the 'talking to' about the benefits that is referenced (which I did not hear on Fox news, fyi ;) :D :lol: ) - I worry that there will be those who approach it the way people did when I was pregnant. They may think they are getting better numbers, but I would be worried there are some who are doing it for the wrong reasons - because they were bullied into it. That may be way off base, but with my experience I can't help but think that or wonder, at least.

Had the information been presented to me as a pregnant mom in a different manner, it is entirely possible that I would have done it, if not with my oldest then maybe with the younger two. (I actually did consider it with Pink, but the hospital staff advised me of the difficulty it would provide for me, recovering from a c-section, and her being in the NICU. By all means it would be possible, but there were some things I had to consider that finally swayed my choice toward not doing it. I just didn't think I could recover, drive 1.5 hours each way to the hospital every day, and wake up during the night to pump and try to keep a supply for her when she finally did begin to eat. She is the only one I even considered, and DH and I considered it at the time because we did wonder if it would be better for her. Anyway, I said all that just to say that I do know that everyone is different and that sometimes BF works out better, etc. I'm very thankful, though, for the support given to me by the NICU staff who just told me - matter of factly - that they would love for me to, BUT that I shouldn't feel like I had to, because she would do great on either. :) )

 

I had a c-section and a kid in the NICU and I breastfed him. I slept at the hospital. The hospital he was in put me in a room in the Ronald McDonald house area of the hospital so I could be on hand to nurse.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[PeacefulChaos]

Agreed.

Anecdotal, but I have friends whose kids were BF exclusively who have asthma and allergies, and two of mine (FF) don't. I think that we can all find anecdotal 'evidence' for anything we want to. (Not saying you are, just saying that in general - I had several people tell me they were convinced that BF/FF is why one of their kids had allergies and the other didn't. It's entirely possible, but there's no way they can know that for sure, kwim?)

 

I guess my comment would be anecdotal if it wasn't backed by research.

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111014104404.htm

 

Genetics play a major role in allergies. If your children are not genetically predisposed towards allergies then it is not surprising that they do not have them.

 

 

 

 

I had a c-section and a kid in the NICU and I breastfed them. I slept at the hospital.

 

Sigh. I didn't say your comment was anecdotal. I know it's backed by research. I was actually saying MY comment was anecdotal (re: two kids BF w allergies & asthma, mine without).

I couldn't make a choice like that between my children. I had two boys at home for a month who, as it was, only saw their mother first thing in the morning and in the evenings. They didn't see dad much more than that, if any. You made your choice, and I made mine - please don't try to compare the two. I'm not saying yours wasn't equally difficult, but I can't help but feel like your last comment is a little bit of a slam at me for not being willing to sacrifice everything else to BF my daughter.

 

We had people ask why we didn't just stay at the RM house to be closer to her. (Trust me, I didn't like the fact that we were 1.5 hours away with a child on life support, either.) Had we not had other children, it would have been likely that we would, and things may have gone differently. I probably would have gone ahead with pumping for those weeks she was in the hospital til she was ready to try to nurse - she was about 2.5 weeks old then.

Edited July 30, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Slartibartfast]

 

Sigh. I didn't say your comment was anecdotal. I know it's backed by research. I was actually saying MY comment was anecdotal (re: two kids BF w allergies & asthma, mine without).

I couldn't make a choice like that between my children. I had two boys at home for a month who, as it was, only saw their mother first thing in the morning and in the evenings. They didn't see dad much more than that, if any. You made your choice, and I made mine - please don't try to compare the two. I'm not saying yours wasn't equally difficult, but I can't help but feel like your last comment is a little bit of a slam at me for not being willing to sacrifice everything else to BF my daughter.

 

I am not comparing them, you brought it up.

 

My child had holes in his heart and was facing surgery. They didn't ASK me if I was nursing. They TOLD me I was nursing. To not have nursed my eldest would have been irresponsible, to not have nursed my son would have been crazy.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[PeacefulChaos]

I am not comparing them, you brought it up.

 

My child had holes in his heart and was facing surgery. They didn't ASK me if I was nursing. They TOLD me I was nursing.

 

That's good to know. Thanks. :rolleyes:

I brought it up to show that I'm not totally against breastfeeding, etc...

Anyway, it was all just a part of showing that IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TALK TO NEW MOMS ABOUT BREASTFEEDING, they should NOT do it as Nazis or bullies.

Or in a holier-than-thou manner that assumes that only those who want to make wrong choices for their children would choose formula.

That's all I'm trying to say. :glare:

Edited July 30, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Slartibartfast]

That's good to know. Thanks. :rolleyes:

I brought it up to show that I'm not totally against breastfeeding, etc...

Anyway, it was all just a part of showing that IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TALK TO NEW MOMS ABOUT BREASTFEEDING, they should NOT do it as Nazis or bullies.

 

That's all I'm trying to say. :glare:

 

 

Nazis? Murdering people is *totally* comparable to breastfeeding. :glare::glare::glare::glare:

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[Mrs Mungo]

That's good to know. Thanks. :rolleyes:

I brought it up to show that I'm not totally against breastfeeding, etc...

Anyway, it was all just a part of showing that IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TALK TO NEW MOMS ABOUT BREASTFEEDING, they should NOT do it as Nazis or bullies.

Or in a holier-than-thou manner that assumes that only those who want to make wrong choices for their children would choose formula.

That's all I'm trying to say. :glare:

 

You are right. It would be wrong to put people in a gas chamber for formula feeding. :glare: Maybe if you weren't putting bfing advocates into the NAZI category, people would be hearing what you actually mean better.

[PeacefulChaos]

Ok, Ok, not nazis...

 

Rude, overstepping bullies who assume others are idiots? Yelling at moms that they really should breastfeed no matter what? Telling them all the things their kids will be better at because they were breastfed, and the things they'll miss out on if they aren't? In a very condescending, forceful tone.

 

Yeah, maybe that would sum it up better.

 

And yes, that was my experience. Do I know now that isn't the norm? Absolutely.

I would just love for those who ARE that way to realize that it doesn't help anyone. It doesn't prove their point.

Though I feel like I've been beating a dead horse trying to get mine across... Sigh.

 

(And really? No one here has EVER heard anyone else refer to someone as a 'choir nazi' or 'soup nazi' before and not immediately jumped on them for being ridiculous? Really? :rolleyes: Because I hear that all the time. I have regularly heard people called those things -well, not soup nazi ;) - but never actually compared it to Hitler or anything. Sheesh. I assumed it would be understood that someone who was that much of a bully about BFing could be considered a 'BF nazi'. My mistake. :rolleyes: )

Edited July 30, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Slartibartfast]

Ok, Ok, not nazis...

 

Rude, overstepping bullies who assume others are idiots? Yelling at moms that they really should breastfeed no matter what? Telling them all the things their kids will be better at because they were breastfed, and the things they'll miss out on if they aren't? In a very condescending, forceful tone.

 

Yeah, maybe that would sum it up better.

 

And yes, that was my experience. Do I know now that isn't the norm? Absolutely.

I would just love for those who ARE that way to realize that it doesn't help anyone. It doesn't prove their point.

Though I feel like I've been beating a dead horse trying to get mine across... Sigh.

 

(And really? No one here has EVER heard anyone else refer to someone as a 'choir nazi' or 'soup nazi' before and not immediately jumped on them for being ridiculous? Really? :rolleyes: Because I hear that all the time. I have regularly heard people called those things -well, not soup nazi ;) - but never actually compared it to Hitler or anything. Sheesh. I assumed it would be understood that someone who was that much of a bully about BFing could be considered a 'BF nazi'. My mistake. :rolleyes: )

 

I totally jump on them every time. It is ridiculous to call people Nazis.

 

We get it, some breastfeeding advocated were mean to you. What does that have to do with breastfeeding itself?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sis

[Mrs Mungo]

We get it, some breastfeeding advocated were mean to you. What does that have to do with breastfeeding itself?

 

It was probably a nurse, NOT a trained breastfeeding counselor. I threatened to kick a nurse in the head when I was in labor. If X group of women can grow brains, then the other group can grow a set of balls and stand up for themselves.

 

Otherwise, exactly. Is breastfeeding good? Yes. Is it cheaper? Yes. Is it good to offer women information? Yes. I don't understand why there is any debate.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[PeacefulChaos]

And I still do think some of the stuff is bogus. I will read the link shortly, I don't have time at the moment - but I will say that I do know now that the are benefits to the mom. I have a sil who is a (non pushy) breast feeding counselor, or she used to be anyway, and she told me about the stuff as she was trying to decide for herself. Had someone been the way she was, I would have considered it more, as she wasn't judgmental and 100% thinks that what I chose was just as good as BFing. But instead I was bullied and having so called facts thrown at me like I was an idiot. It doesn't foster a good relationship or begin to open someone's mind to something - it just made me think those people were psycho and that I wantd to stay as far away from them as possible. Sad but true.

 

I actually don't know much about lll - I have no idea if the people I ran into were lll people or not. :)

 

I assumed that BFing people were nuts. Don't laugh or think me silly - I really did. My ONLY experience with pro-bf people was like what I bolded above. Our area is VERY pro-bfing, to the extent of shaming FFing moms. So I got a lot of people who were very preachy at me about BFing. They were above and beyond just being advocates choosing what was best for them - they were actively looking for converts by bullying people into it because of ____ (pick one of the very valid reasons, but they just don't come across well in these circumstances).

I still have family who praise my SIL (also best friend) in front of me for her choice to BF. She and DH are the ONLY two people who stick up for me for making my own decision.

I know that not everything is like that. I know not everyone is like that. I know there are valid reasons, etc - I feel like I already said all this. And I also said that if it had been presented to me in a manner which wasn't attacking me, I may have chosen differently. No one told me about any health benefits - it was all babies will be smarter (even the pros!) and I'd lose my weight quicker (which may or may not have been the case - as it was I was my pre-pg size and weight within a week of the boys being born).

I made the decision with what was available to me at the time. I still think I made the right one - I did well with what I had. And that's all anyone can expect.

 

That's why I'm saying what I'm saying - I don't agree with the idea in the OP because some of these 'talking tos' are overstepping their bounds. I believe that prenatal care usually goes over these things. All my experiences have been people pro-BFing. I don't think locking up formula and giving women a 'talking to' about choosing differently would make people choose to BF for the right reasons.

Edited July 30, 2012 by PeacefulChaos

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Otherwise, exactly. Is breastfeeding good? Yes. Is it cheaper? Yes. Is it good to offer women information? Yes. I don't understand why there is any debate.

 

I agree with you Mrs. Mungo. I also agree however (and I suspect you would too) that not all mothers can breastfeed. And that choosing to use formula doesn't mean that those mothers are bad. It can mean, in some situations that the mothers got bad information (in the sense of pro formula propaganda) or not enough support but not always.

 

Honestly, I opened this thread expecting a gross overstepping of individual rights and found that it is mainly a non-story.

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree with you Mrs. Mungo. I also agree however (and I suspect you would too) that not all mothers can breastfeed. And that choosing to use formula doesn't mean that those mothers are bad. It can mean, in some situations that the mothers got bad information (in the sense of pro formula propaganda) or not enough support but not always.

 

Oh, I agree. I stated repeatedly that there are lots of reasons not to nurse or none. It's a mother's choice, even if she's perfectly capable of nursing and has tons of information and support.

 

Honestly, I opened this thread expecting a gross overstepping of individual rights and found that it is mainly a non-story.

 

This is my point.

[dirty ethel rackham]

It seems your eldest is 16. A lot has changed since then, and not because of Bloomberg.

Not because of Bloomberg, but because of those "lactivists" that people have such a hard time tolerating. Up until 3 years ago, I taught independent childbirth classes. Even though my youngest is 12, I was dealing with new moms all the time and saw what they had to deal with in hospitals. Although there were beautiful posters saying "Breast is Best," there was still plenty of subtle interference with breastfeeding and lots of formula company influence. The fact is, most docs and nurses are relatively uneducated about breastfeeding. So, while they encouraged their patients to bf, every little blip was a reason to formula feed. Everything from taking the baby for tests to baby fussiness - all were seen as opportunities to get some formula into a baby. The fact that there are only a handful of Baby-Friendly hospitals in this country tells me that we have a long way to go.

 

Part of the problem is that we have formula companies spending millions of dollars to get people to use their products. Their tactics have changed and become more subtle, but they are still very effective. Just look at breastfeeding rates in this country. Unfortunately, b@@bs don't have million dollar advertising campaigns to educate people on how to use them effectively to feed babies. One public service ad campaign is only going to make a small dent in counteracting decades of effective formula advertising and marketing.

 

 

I mentioned early on that I don't have a problem with the policy. I was merely responding to a PP who suggested we need the state to "look out for us" because for-profit corporations don't. As if we are incapable of looking out for ourselves.

 

 

I don't think it is about saying we are incapable of looking out for ourselves. It is about educating the public and removing obstacles to breastfeeding.

[ktgrok]

I have not witnessed that firsthand. In my experience it has always been the opposite, which is equally annoying and infuriating.

When I chose to FF, I did receive the free formula in the bag when I left, but I had already chosen by that point - I chose long before the kids we born. There wasn't much info in there that I remember, and definitely nothing promoting FFing.

Around here people are obnoxiously pro-BF. to each their own, but I don't like when people try to force their own decisions on me. :glare:

 

That actually is the norm. The formula companies don't market heavily to people already choosing to formula feed. They market to women planning to breastfeed. It was shown that if you say, registered at a maternity store or whatnot, and put that you planned to breastfeed, you would get WAY more samples and coupons and what not, because women choosing to breastfeed would be more brand loyal or something, i forget what exactly. But that is how it works.

[Scrub Jay]

I found my hospital to be very bf supportive.

 

BUT, even when I removed the formula from the free bag you get to take home I was asked by a nurse twice if I was sure.

 

I honestly found more stupid bf comments from my pediatrician than anyone else. She sure assumed a lot (like DD must have gained a certain amount of weight because I was supplementing, which I wasn't, etc....).