Nanny State now wants to push nursing

[Mommyfaithe]

Gimme a break! It is Fox "News" at their old game of manipulating the easy outraged.

 

How many times are y'all going to fall for it before you wise up?

 

Sheez.

 

Bill

 

Oh, you know us Bill!! We love a good cackle to keep us from lesson planning!:D

[Chava_Raizel]

I agree - I don't think it should be a forced issue. Yes, breastfeeding is best, we know that, but sometimes it doesn't work out. My body produces WAY too much milk and I end up quitting after a few weeks just because I'm so engorged all the time that I'm in constant pain. I tried pumping, frequent nursing - my twins nursed every single hour for 2 weeks, and I remember crying all the time because it hurt so much. My youngest ended up having so many feeding problems she physically couldn't nurse and had to be on a special allergen-free formula.

 

If I ever were to have another baby, I'm not sure I'd even bother with nursing.

[Mommyfaithe]

OK, I can see that. That wasn't my experience at all, so I was looking at it from my perspective. Bottom line for me is that nothing should be done to undermine a mother's choice, so once she's said, "I want to formula feed." that should be the end of it.

 

Once I said I was breastfeeding all I heard was encouragement, support, they had DH accompany them whenever the baby left the room, and the only person who fed the baby was me.

 

I even taped signs in my baby's basinettes....those signs were ignored:glare:

 

Every baby until the last 2 were given either a formula bottle or sugar water...BOTH of which I had made extremely CLEAR were unwanted. I roomed in....but, at some point in exhaustion, I would let the nurse take baby for a bath or exam by ped.....and every darn time baby would come back with a little bottle tucked in the bed.:glare:

 

My last 2 seemed to have come at a time where it finally sunk in that breastfeeding moms really meant it when they said NO BOTTLES! I also got wise at that point and brought little nuks ....so, if baby cried, they had something to pop in little ones mouth:D

[butterflymommy]

How is locking up formula going to do anything? It's not like the moms can go grab a bottle of formula for their baby in the infant room-- the nurse has to give it. And nurses don't have time to lecture a mom every time baby needs a bottle.

 

I've given birth in NYC hospitals 6 times. The BFing rates are near zero every time I've been there (they write breast or bottle on the baby's name card to keep track, my baby has always been the only "breast" in the infant room). This is just going to be more work for the nurses as many women just don't want to or can't breastfeed. Also if a baby gets used to the breast they often will refuse a bottle. If mom knows she needs to go back to work she may have very good reason to FF. Not all women can pump. I've nursed 7 kids past infancy and have never been able to pump-- nothing comes out.

 

This is the same mayor who wanted to heavily tax soda above a certain size. I hate soda but that's just ridiculous. Can't wait for this guy to get out of office (never mind his current term is arguably illegal because he extended the term limits for himself). I could go on about the stuff he's done to "fix" the public schools while nothing has really improved. All hail king bloomberg.

[Dmmetler]

I ended up pumping for two years for DD because she had low oral tone and by the time she could latch and nurse effectively, she had stopped trying. And I will forever bless the nurse who, at 2:00 in the morning, with a crying, hungry baby who couldn't eat and was getting dehydrated said "Honey, let me fix a bottle-I'll request that the lactation nurse come in first thing in the morning". Because, ultimately, DD needed to eat something, and breast feeding wasn't doing it. even with bottle feeding it was a struggle. And while I was able to make exclusive pumping work with a hospital grade pump and a bottle of fenugreek, even the lactation consultant said that this was extremely rare-that the goal would typically be for DD to get some breastmilk as long as possible, and to supplement as needed with the best formula for her, without feeling guilty about it.

[ktgrok]

Im not going to bother to read the whole thread and respond but breastfeeding IS the business of the govt bc its a public health issue.

 

exactly. Now, I don't know how this is being handled, and I'm hesitant to trust FOX news at it's word, but it is a public health issue. If a woman wanted to light up a ciggarette while pregnant in the hospital I'm sure she would be discouraged. And most people on this board had no issue with the hospital encouraging women to put the bay in the bassinet rather than cosleeping. Formula feeding carries similar risks, and is a decision to be made only when you have all the information. INformed consent and all that.

 

If the hospital can lecture me on vaccines, etc I don't see why not formula.

[ktgrok]

I agree - I don't think it should be a forced issue. Yes, breastfeeding is best, we know that, but sometimes it doesn't work out. My body produces WAY too much milk and I end up quitting after a few weeks just because I'm so engorged all the time that I'm in constant pain. I tried pumping, frequent nursing - my twins nursed every single hour for 2 weeks, and I remember crying all the time because it hurt so much. My youngest ended up having so many feeding problems she physically couldn't nurse and had to be on a special allergen-free formula.

 

If I ever were to have another baby, I'm not sure I'd even bother with nursing.

 

Just in case you do have another baby...the secret to dealing with oversupply is to nurse LESS often, not more. So you would just nurse from one breast for several house straight, then the other for several hours straight. That sends a signal to the body to make less milk.

[ktgrok]

So formula feeding carries similar risks to smoking? Sorry, I don't buy it. These are exactly the kind of BS scare tactics I encountered.

 

It carries similar risks to a baby being exposed to a mom that smokes. Not similar to effects of smoking oneself. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

I get tired of hearing that breastfeeding "reduces' risk. When the truth is that formula increases risk. It increases the risk of everything from leukemia to SIDS to diabetes. Not to mention it increases the mother's risk of breast cancer pretty dramatically. Those issues should be discussed. NOt used to scare the mom, just discussed. Sometimes those risks are worth it. But not giving accurate information means the mom can't make an informed decision.

[TravelingChris]

What the PP poster said about ff being similar to a mother smoking by a child is simply ridiculous and outrageous.

I have exclusively FF. I would be incredibly angry if someone tried to lecture me about it. Yes, I did have medical reasons but I am sure that someone out there would also decide that my pain, my problems with using my hands and feet, and other issues like that just weren't serious enough for FF.

 

Look, I am all for everyone getting information. If my daughter's have kids, I will see how they are and if they are fine, encourage bf. But it will be their choice and I will take their preferences and honor them. One in particular may very well not be able to BF since I think she will need to be on blood thinners after birth. But that will be up to her doctor at the time.

 

Anyway, I don't care if they don't bf simply because they don't want to. I am thrilled they had the baby and didn't abort.

 

Oh and Fox News is so biased but the NY Times and CNN are not????? Are you kidding me?

 

One final note, under Nanny Bloomberg's plan, would I still be able to get a large (over 16 oz) unsweetened iced tea, which has no calories and isn;t any type of health problem causing substance at all.

[Impish]

It carries similar risks to a baby being exposed to a mom that smokes. Not similar to effects of smoking oneself. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

I get tired of hearing that breastfeeding "reduces' risk. When the truth is that formula increases risk. It increases the risk of everything from leukemia to SIDS to diabetes. Not to mention it increases the mother's risk of breast cancer pretty dramatically. Those issues should be discussed. NOt used to scare the mom, just discussed. Sometimes those risks are worth it. But not giving accurate information means the mom can't make an informed decision.

Seriously?! So, moms that formula feed are essentially giving their babies poison, according to you.

 

Perfect. Cause you know, it's not like there aren't already enough moms carrying guilt around b/c they're unable to breast feed for whatever reason (physical, medical, emotional). Let's heap a bit more guilt on their heads.

[ktgrok]

Seriously?! So, moms that formula feed are essentially giving their babies poison, according to you.

 

Perfect. Cause you know, it's not like there aren't already enough moms carrying guilt around b/c they're unable to breast feed for whatever reason (physical, medical, emotional). Let's heap a bit more guilt on their heads.

 

I didn't say it is poison. I said it had risks. It does. That is just the truth. I also said that sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks. That is true for many many many things. How on earth is that equating it to poison? It is a health decision, and one that should be made knowing what the risks are. That doesn't mean making a woman feel guilty, it means giving information.

 

I have had both my children sleep on their stomachs. That is a risk factor for SIDS. I was glad I had that info, but then made a decision based on my own children's needs/medical issues, etc. I don't feel guilty for my choice, despite the risks. I don't go around telling people that those "Back to Sleep" ads are guilt tripping moms. I think it is great that the info is out there. How is telling me that stomach sleeping carries risks different than telling someone that formula feeding carries risks? Why on earth is that seen as browbeating or guilting a woman?

 

My sister formula fed because her baby was born with a disorganized suck, she could barely suck from a bottle let alone a breast. My friend had a similar issue, and was in tears pumping because she never got to actually FEED the baby, because she was so busy pumping. I was the first to say hey, your baby needs time in mom's arms bonding more than your milk. Get some formula and spend some time with your baby. I don't think formula is evil, or poison, or whatever. But it does increase the risk of certain things. That isn't being mean, it is just true.

[Mommy_of_4]

I have no problem with it.

Article

 

The aggressive marketing of formula to new mothers is sickening.

 

:iagree:I BF all of my children and I made sure everyone knew in the hospital and they still wanted to send us home with TONS of samples of formula.

[Parrothead]

It carries similar risks to a baby being exposed to a mom that smokes. Not similar to effects of smoking oneself. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

I get tired of hearing that breastfeeding "reduces' risk. When the truth is that formula increases risk. It increases the risk of everything from leukemia to SIDS to diabetes. Not to mention it increases the mother's risk of breast cancer pretty dramatically. Those issues should be discussed. NOt used to scare the mom, just discussed. Sometimes those risks are worth it. But not giving accurate information means the mom can't make an informed decision.

Sources?

[ktgrok]

Sources?

 

I'm trying to put Sonlight Core H into HST and should NOT be spending time on the forums today, so I really don't have time to search out the sources right now, but here are a few. (sorry, i shouldn't have gotten involved if I don't have time to back it up). Oh, and to be VERY clear, I feel that if a woman has the info, makes the choice to formula feed, and it is in her chart, they hospital shouldn't mention it again. But I do think it is realistic to have one conversation about it before bringing out the formula. (unlike my local hospital, that is notorious for giving baby a bottle of formula IN the recovery room after a c-section, because it is "hungry". Um...baby has been out for 20 minutes, it isn't starving just yet.)

 

http://www.infactcanada.ca/FormulaCancer.htm

http://www.infactcanada.ca/RisksofFormulaFeeding.pdf

http://www.mamadearest.ca/en/download/newman/risks.pdf

[Mrs Mungo]

Sounds like they are trying to follow the recommendations of UNICEF and the WHO to become baby-friendly certified. [eta: If you search, "baby-friendly hospital," then you will find lots of info about the initiatives and the benefits of breastfeeding.]

 

I received formula only with my oldest, but she was the only one born in an American hospital.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Parrothead]

I'm trying to put Sonlight Core H into HST and should NOT be spending time on the forums today, so I really don't have time to search out the sources right now, but here are a few. (sorry, i shouldn't have gotten involved if I don't have time to back it up). Oh, and to be VERY clear, I feel that if a woman has the info, makes the choice to formula feed, and it is in her chart, they hospital shouldn't mention it again. But I do think it is realistic to have one conversation about it before bringing out the formula. (unlike my local hospital, that is notorious for giving baby a bottle of formula IN the recovery room after a c-section, because it is "hungry". Um...baby has been out for 20 minutes, it isn't starving just yet.)

 

http://www.infactcanada.ca/FormulaCancer.htm

http://www.infactcanada.ca/RisksofFormulaFeeding.pdf

http://www.mamadearest.ca/en/download/newman/risks.pdf

Thanks for taking the time to post these.

[SKL]

I am all for objective education of new moms at the time when they need to make a decision about BF or FF. However, I begin to wonder how "objective" anyone can be on this highly charged subject.

 

Breast milk is "usually" better than formula the way organic apples are better than conventional ones. (Except that the cost relationship is inverse.) But to hear some people talk, formula is like arsenik. Given that we can't change the fact that (a) lots of people need to ff and (b) lots of people have older kids raised on forumla, wouldn't it be nice if we could just make a helpful recommendation instead of a judgment?

 

Of course there are some nurses who just have a power issue. They can't stand the idea that the mom is in fact the authority over her child. That's why you see the same meanness whether the policy is pro-bf or pro-ff. It would be nice if we could fix that, wouldn't it?

[ktgrok]

Given that we can't change the fact that (a) lots of people need to ff and (b) lots of people have older kids raised on forumla, wouldn't it be nice if we could just make a helpful recommendation instead of a judgment?

 

Of course there are some nurses who just have a power issue. They can't stand the idea that the mom is in fact the authority over her child. That's why you see the same meanness whether the policy is pro-bf or pro-ff. It would be nice if we could fix that, wouldn't it?

 

What I'm wondering is why we assume that the nurses educating women on formula would be judging them? Given that MOST women use formula at some point, it only follows that most of the nurses doing this education would have used formula with their own children. So why do we assume they are judging the women they are educating?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I am all for objective education of new moms at the time when they need to make a decision about BF or FF. However, I begin to wonder how "objective" anyone can be on this highly charged subject.

 

Breast milk is "usually" better than formula the way organic apples are better than conventional ones. (Except that the cost relationship is inverse.) But to hear some people talk, formula is like arsenik.

 

I have no problem with the gist of what you are saying. You, however, chose a very very bad analogy. There are news reports of very high levels of arsenic in apple juice. . . http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/30/arsenic-in-apple-juice-a-new-report-suggests-widespread-exposure/ I'm not trying to hi-jack this, but when I read what you wrote it smacked me in the face like a two-by-four.

[SKL]

I have no problem with the gist of what you are saying. You, however, chose a very very bad analogy. There are news reports of very high levels of arsenic in apple juice. . . http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/30/arsenic-in-apple-juice-a-new-report-suggests-widespread-exposure/ I'm not trying to hi-jack this, but when I read what you wrote it smacked me in the face like a two-by-four.

 

Well, apparently I was comparing apples to oranges! :)

 

I used that example because studies have proven there is a little more vitamin content in organic red delicious apples - but that doesn't mean people who don't buy them aren't good moms.

 

I don't buy apple juice as it isn't as healthy as whole apples - not that I'm trying to guilt anyone! :)

[Chava_Raizel]

Just in case you do have another baby...the secret to dealing with oversupply is to nurse LESS often, not more. So you would just nurse from one breast for several house straight, then the other for several hours straight. That sends a signal to the body to make less milk.

 

Interesting. I didn't talk to anyone with my last baby, because there was enough other craziness going on with her being so sick and in the NICU. But with both my first and my twins, the lactation consultants I spoke with told me to nurse more often...

 

I can see how nursing less might have helped, but my breasts were seriously like rocks from the minute my milk came in til I finally gave up out of sheer frustration. If I ever do have another, I will try what you suggested before trying bottle feeding.

[SKL]

What I'm wondering is why we assume that the nurses educating women on formula would be judging them? Given that MOST women use formula at some point, it only follows that most of the nurses doing this education would have used formula with their own children. So why do we assume they are judging the women they are educating?

 

Right here in this thread we had at least one PP describe bullying by a nurse for FF, while another PP (or several) described bullying by a nurse for BF. Haven't we all heard many other examples of the same?

 

Not all nurses have kids. Also, medical professionals seem quite capable of separating their advice from what they themselves actually do in their private lives.

[ktgrok]

Right here in this thread we had at least one PP describe bullying by a nurse for FF, while another PP (or several) described bullying by a nurse for BF. Haven't we all heard many other examples of the same?

 

Not all nurses have kids. Also, medical professionals seem quite capable of separating their advice from what they themselves actually do in their private lives.

 

I think that was my point...that they could have opinions either way, but are more likley to have formula fed than exlusively breastfed. Yet the OP and others were assuming that the nurses would be judging women if they use formula. I guess I just get confused by all the women saying they feel judged for using formula, when the vast majority of mothers have used formula. Seems like if you are in the majority it is odd to feel that most people are judging you. Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

[ktgrok]

Interesting. I didn't talk to anyone with my last baby, because there was enough other craziness going on with her being so sick and in the NICU. But with both my first and my twins, the lactation consultants I spoke with told me to nurse more often...

 

I can see how nursing less might have helped, but my breasts were seriously like rocks from the minute my milk came in til I finally gave up out of sheer frustration. If I ever do have another, I will try what you suggested before trying bottle feeding.

 

I think they are so used to telling people to nurse more often to make more milk they just don't think about the few women with oversupply. Google block feeding for the details. Now, I won't lie...in the first few days the breast that is not being used will be HARD, so it is ok to express just enough to ease off the pressure a bit. But the whole idea is that hardness triggers nerves to tell the brain to make less. I struggled with this too, and was lucky someone told me about block feeding. It made nursing my second SO SO much easier! good luck if it happens again.

[butterflymommy]

Just in case you do have another baby...the secret to dealing with oversupply is to nurse LESS often, not more. So you would just nurse from one breast for several house straight, then the other for several hours straight. That sends a signal to the body to make less milk.

 

I have struggled with oversupply too. Nursing less often can be very dangerous, especially if your body doesn't adjust quickly or at all, because you'll be at risk for plugged ducts and mastitis. I tried many things and found the best solution for oversupply is restricting calories. If you eat only 1200 calories a day (or less) your body will make less milk no matter what. Even at 10 months I will get oversupply if I eat a lot. I'm ok up to 1800 calories, anything over that and my boobs are rocks.

[Mrs Mungo]

Well, apparently I was comparing apples to oranges! :)

 

I used that example because studies have proven there is a little more vitamin content in organic red delicious apples - but that doesn't mean people who don't buy them aren't good moms.

 

I don't buy apple juice as it isn't as healthy as whole apples - not that I'm trying to guilt anyone! :)

 

Actually, I think this is an apples-to-apples analogy. I don't buy apple juice, either. That does not mean I think moms who do offer apple juice are bad moms. I firmly believe breastfeeding is healthier. That doesn't place me in a superior position to judge the choices (not that it is always a choice) of other people. I am sure I make choices *every day* that other people disagree with or feel are inferior choices. And that is okay.

 

I think they are so used to telling people to nurse more often to make more milk they just don't think about the few women with oversupply. Google block feeding for the details. Now, I won't lie...in the first few days the breast that is not being used will be HARD, so it is ok to express just enough to ease off the pressure a bit. But the whole idea is that hardness triggers nerves to tell the brain to make less. I struggled with this too, and was lucky someone told me about block feeding. It made nursing my second SO SO much easier! good luck if it happens again.

 

Hand expressing to relieve enforcement can also help. It is a LOT easier and more gentle than using a pump, once you know how to do it. The major problem with "lactation consultants" at most hospitals? They are just nurses with an extra class or two. In contrast, LLLLeaders must have breastfed their own babies and IBCLCs need hundreds and hundreds of hours of peer counseling before they can sit for the test.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Mrs Mungo]

I have struggled with oversupply too. Nursing less often can be very dangerous, especially if your body doesn't adjust quickly or at all, because you'll be at risk for plugged ducts and mastitis.

 

Let me explain block feeding a little better. Because, if you do it right, then it should not put you at that sort of risk.

 

At 7 am baby is hungry. You offer the left breast first, let baby eat as much as they can, then offer the right breast. If you have overactive letdown, then you would want to hand-express both sides a little before beginning; this is to relieve engorgement and to help keep baby from projectile vomiting from gulping too fast.

 

At 9 am baby is hungry again, so you offer the left breast first again, then the right breast second again.

 

At 11 am and 1 pm you offer the right breast first and the left second.

 

And so forth.

 

You offer both at every feeding, but by offering *mostly* one side over 4 or 5 hours, you are sending a signal that baby does not need quite so much.

 

Cabbage also works to help relieve engorgement and overproduction.

[VeritasMama]

I think they are so used to telling people to nurse more often to make more milk they just don't think about the few women with oversupply. Google block feeding for the details. Now, I won't lie...in the first few days the breast that is not being used will be HARD, so it is ok to express just enough to ease off the pressure a bit. But the whole idea is that hardness triggers nerves to tell the brain to make less. I struggled with this too, and was lucky someone told me about block feeding. It made nursing my second SO SO much easier! good luck if it happens again.

 

:iagree: Three of my children had lengthy hospital stays when they were born, and I ended up completely engorged and had oversupply issues when they came home due to the weeks and weeks of pumping. Block feeding helped me greatly, and I would also hand express to alleviate pressure if my breasts became hard. I would often hand express while taking a shower, it seemed to help (sorry if that is TMI).

[stripe]

So it's perfectly fine when commercial interets are allowed to push their agenda, but suspect when public health concerns shape policy?

 

Isn't this why sugar is never decried as being unhealthy, and everyone rants and raves on here about the influence of the sugar industry?

 

I'd rather live in a nanny state, where someone is looking after me, than a rip off state in which whatever someone wants to sell me is given priority over my needs or health. Drink your soda, eat chips, stuff yourself with saturated fat, forget about vegetables, eat this medicine, have a fiber pill instead of healthy food, take this pill, drink this bottled water that's exactly the same as your tap water, generate a lot of garbage so we can keep trash collectors employed, ask your doctor about the newest medicine that costs 10x as much as the old one but doesn't work as well, drink soda, oh, you have diabetes, buy this insulin, here's a lovely prosthetic foot for you, drink this special water for diabetics, and buy a special sock for your fake foot.

 

I was asked whether I wanted similac or infamel with my older two. I wanted neither. I was given anyway. With my youngest, I was given none.

[Meriwether]

I think that was my point...that they could have opinions either way, but are more likley to have formula fed than exlusively breastfed. Yet the OP and others were assuming that the nurses would be judging women if they use formula. I guess I just get confused by all the women saying they feel judged for using formula, when the vast majority of mothers have used formula. Seems like if you are in the majority it is odd to feel that most people are judging you. Maybe I'm not explaining it well.

 

 

My SIL had a terrible time getting the nurses to let her use formula.

[Karen in CO]

So it's perfectly fine when commercial interets are allowed to push their agenda, but suspect when public health concerns shape policy?

 

Isn't this why sugar is never decried as being unhealthy, and everyone rants and raves on here about the influence of the sugar industry?

 

I'd rather live in a nanny state, where someone is looking after me, than a rip off state in which whatever someone wants to sell me is given priority over my needs or health. Drink your soda, eat chips, stuff yourself with saturated fat, forget about vegetables, eat this medicine, have a fiber pill instead of healthy food, take this pill, drink this bottled water that's exactly the same as your tap water, generate a lot of garbage so we can keep trash collectors employed, ask your doctor about the newest medicine that costs 10x as much as the old one but doesn't work as well, drink soda, oh, you have diabetes, buy this insulin, here's a lovely prosthetic foot for you, drink this special water for diabetics, and buy a special sock for your fake foot.

:iagree:

 

My mom was given a shot to dry up her milk and given some free samples of formula for me when I was born because formula was "better" for me. Really. It was the way things were done. My ds was given formula against my wishes when he was in the hospital because it was "routine" to do so even if I had told them not to. It was in the "best interest" of the infant patient. The lactation consultant at the hospital when I had my older dd told me that I was holder her wrong, and she'd never be able to nurse properly - she'd never actually nursed a baby. They also gave her sugar water since she hadn't had x number of wet diapers in y hours. The nurses were a bit surprised when I refused a lactation consultant when younger dd was born, and I refused to let them give her formula or sugar water or let her out of our sight. Times have changed. Perhaps the next generation of kids born might have a better chance of thinking that nursing is the normal, human way to feed a baby and start undoing this generation of damage that has been done. Let's hear it for some regulations on the side of people instead of businesses. :D

[SKL]

I'd rather live in a nanny state, where someone is looking after me

 

Just thought I'd point out that politicians are looking after themselves. Not you.

 

Personally I'd rather Americans could get back in touch with their natural instinct to look after themselves. In the present context, that means the doctors/nurses provide objective information to inform the mom's decision and then back off. Or better yet, expectant moms do some independent research while the baby is cooking.

 

I am not opposed to corporate marketing, but as long as we have women who act like they can't think for themselves, I can see how it could be problematic to give them marketing stuff saying "FormulaCo cares ever so much for your baby." The science and art of marketing are very powerful. But I still say it's our responsibility to use our own brains or learn from our own mistakes.

[celticmom]

I am all for objective education of new moms at the time when they need to make a decision about BF or FF. However, I begin to wonder how "objective" anyone can be on this highly charged subject.

 

Breast milk is "usually" better than formula the way organic apples are better than conventional ones. (Except that the cost relationship is inverse.) But to hear some people talk, formula is like arsenik. Given that we can't change the fact that (a) lots of people need to ff and (b) lots of people have older kids raised on forumla, wouldn't it be nice if we could just make a helpful recommendation instead of a judgment?

 

Of course there are some nurses who just have a power issue. They can't stand the idea that the mom is in fact the authority over her child. That's why you see the same meanness whether the policy is pro-bf or pro-ff. It would be nice if we could fix that, wouldn't it?

:iagree:Especially with the bolded.

[MrsBasil]

 

 

Hand expressing to relieve enforcement can also help. It is a LOT easier and more gentle than using a pump, once you know how to do it. The major problem with "lactation consultants" at most hospitals? They are just nurses with an extra class or two. In contrast, LLLLeaders must have breastfed their own babies and IBCLCs need hundreds and hundreds of hours of peer counseling before they can sit for the test.

 

That's so not my experience and perhaps why I don't get some of these policies. Every lactation consultant I saw was an IBCLC, they spent time in my room with my first because of difficulties. I had a direct number to their dept when I was released. They stopped by my room just to cheer me on and talk to DH about ways he could be supportive when I had DD, she had no problems nursing.

 

If she did leave the room and was upset when they brought her back, every nurse suggested I try nursing her to calm her down.

 

The hospital has a clinic open daily, that's free, for mother's to come in, get the baby weighed before and after a feeding, nurse the baby, and work out problems. I know women who got extensive counseling due to latch problems, under/over supply, and needing help working out a pumping schedule for work.

 

I was on WIC and the worker is an IBCLC. They offer a breastfeeding support group. I was given a peer counselor who is not an IBCLC(yet), but as taken hundreds of hours of classes. I was able to call her 24/7 if I had questions or just needed emotional support. She called me weekly just to check in.

 

I had no lack of support, don't live in a well off area, and it's not the least bit crunchy, so I'm taken back to hear of how little support other areas offer.

[ktgrok]

That's so not my experience and perhaps why I don't get some of these policies. Every lactation consultant I saw was an IBCLC, they spent time in my room with my first because of difficulties. I had a direct number to their dept when I was released. They stopped by my room just to cheer me on and talk to DH about ways he could be supportive when I had DD, she had no problems nursing.

 

If she did leave the room and was upset when they brought her back, every nurse suggested I try nursing her to calm her down.

 

The hospital has a clinic open daily, that's free, for mother's to come in, get the baby weighed before and after a feeding, nurse the baby, and work out problems. I know women who got extensive counseling due to latch problems, under/over supply, and needing help working out a pumping schedule for work.

 

I was on WIC and the worker is an IBCLC. They offer a breastfeeding support group. I was given a peer counselor who is not an IBCLC(yet), but as taken hundreds of hours of classes. I was able to call her 24/7 if I had questions or just needed emotional support. She called me weekly just to check in.

 

I had no lack of support, don't live in a well off area, and it's not the least bit crunchy, so I'm taken back to hear of how little support other areas offer.

 

Wow, that is amazing! To contrast that, we are in a metropolitan area, and the major baby hospital does NOT have IBLC's seeing moms. Moms can attend a "class" on breastfeeding that is offered once a day. So if baby is born at4pm, and the class is at 3pm, they can't get info until almost 24 hours after the baby is born. Oh, and when my neice was transported back to the hospital by ambulance for low blood sugar the day she was discharged they still didn't get a lactation consultant to my sister until the next day. Then the consultant didn't even watch the baby nurse. The baby was sleeping so she gave my sister tips on how to exclusively pump and left.

 

That is typical in this area.

[JoLuRu]

Formula is usually not billed to the patient. Companies give formula to the hospitals to pass out to patients, because they know that formula is one of the things that people remain brand loyal to. Often a baby will take no type of formula other than the one first introduced. It's in formula makers' interest to get your baby hooked on their brand (and the most expensive version of their brand - premixed) as soon as possible.

 

This was explained to my by my OB when I asked why they were giving me all the Enfamil swag after my first baby, when I was breastfeeding. It was later confirmed by a friend who is a pharmaceutical rep - lots of sample pills are given to doctors to pass out for exactly the same reason.

 

And I had rude nurses pushing me to give a bottle with my two breastfed babies, and rude nurses pushing me to breastfeed with my bottle fed baby. It's one of the no-win scenarios for moms - there's always someone to guilt a new mom either way.

 

With my formula fed baby, we were on WIC, and they interviewed me to find out why I chose formula and how they could have supported breastfeeding for me. I was happy to participate because I do think more moms should breastfeed and should get the support they need, even if it wasn't right for me for that baby. (I never had enough supply breastfeeding, with lactation consultants, supplements, pumping, etc.etc., and had a baby with failure to thrive, so formula feeding seemed logical for the next baby just to get the baby fed without the pain and difficulty I'd already experienced!)

[swellmomma]

Bloomberg strikes again:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/29/nyc-mayor-wants-hospitals-to-lock-up-baby-formula-to-encourage-breast-feeding/?test=latestnews

 

I'm all for breastfeeding and encouraging new moms to nurse. I nursed both of my boys and I plan to nurse this one who's on the way. I think it's good for medical staff to make sure new moms know their options and how to get started nursing if they want to nurse. I think it's probably ok to even ask a new mom if she's considered bf'ing and offer help if she wants to try. But giving moms who choose to formula-feed a "talking to" and locking up formula like a controlled substance?? Requiring documentation of a medical reason for every bottle a newborn receives?

 

Making hospitals and staff more bf'ing friendly, making sure they're trained to help new moms who need assistance with bf'ing, even cutting down on the formula marketing in hospitals--those are great ideas. But this is ridiculous. Bottom line is that IT IS THE MOTHER'S CHOICE, period, and it's not their place to guilt her or pressure her to change her mind. If I were a New Yorker, I'd have two words for Bloomberg et al: BUTT OUT!!

 

I know 1 mom irl that has been lobbying for exactly that sort of thing. She is one to tell moms to their faces they are child abusers for formula feeding etc. I doubt it will happen but I know if she knew of this plan she would be on cloud 9

[LibraryLover]

:001_rolleyes:

 

Whatever. I don't read the Post(not sure I've even heard of it before) or Fox. I get my news from other sources. But I did check to see if the news was being carried elsewhere and shared that. Thanks so much for "educating" me. :rolleyes:

 

 

You're welcome. The language they use is suspect. How about just reporting that mothers are being encourage to bf their babies...the whole nanny state stuff= biased language, not true reporting.

[justLisa]

Let me explain block feeding a little better. Because, if you do it right, then it should not put you at that sort of risk.

 

At 7 am baby is hungry. You offer the left breast first, let baby eat as much as they can, then offer the right breast. If you have overactive letdown, then you would want to hand-express both sides a little before beginning; this is to relieve engorgement and to help keep baby from projectile vomiting from gulping too fast.

 

At 9 am baby is hungry again, so you offer the left breast first again, then the right breast second again.

 

At 11 am and 1 pm you offer the right breast first and the left second.

 

And so forth.

 

You offer both at every feeding, but by offering *mostly* one side over 4 or 5 hours, you are sending a signal that baby does not need quite so much.

 

Cabbage also works to help relieve engorgement and overproduction.

 

That is very interesting. I did this without realizing it probably helped me regulate after a while. I had one nipple that stuck out much better and just made nursing easier so I usually started with that side. In the beginning it was like I had two stuffed jugs, it was awful. And with DD, I had DS still nursing so it was crazy.

[mommymilkies]

That's so not my experience and perhaps why I don't get some of these policies. Every lactation consultant I saw was an IBCLC, they spent time in my room with my first because of difficulties. I had a direct number to their dept when I was released. They stopped by my room just to cheer me on and talk to DH about ways he could be supportive when I had DD, she had no problems nursing.

 

If she did leave the room and was upset when they brought her back, every nurse suggested I try nursing her to calm her down.

 

The hospital has a clinic open daily, that's free, for mother's to come in, get the baby weighed before and after a feeding, nurse the baby, and work out problems. I know women who got extensive counseling due to latch problems, under/over supply, and needing help working out a pumping schedule for work.

 

I was on WIC and the worker is an IBCLC. They offer a breastfeeding support group. I was given a peer counselor who is not an IBCLC(yet), but as taken hundreds of hours of classes. I was able to call her 24/7 if I had questions or just needed emotional support. She called me weekly just to check in.

 

I had no lack of support, don't live in a well off area, and it's not the least bit crunchy, so I'm taken back to hear of how little support other areas offer.

 

You are very lucky. Here there are no IBCLC within an hour. There is a LLL an hour away. WIC doesn't even have bf peer counselors because they "don't need any" (told to me when I volunteered to do so). You are very blessed, but please know you are in the minority.

[Mrs Mungo]

That's so not my experience and perhaps why I don't get some of these policies. Every lactation consultant I saw was an IBCLC, they spent time in my room with my first because of difficulties. I had a direct number to their dept when I was released. They stopped by my room just to cheer me on and talk to DH about ways he could be supportive when I had DD, she had no problems nursing.

 

If she did leave the room and was upset when they brought her back, every nurse suggested I try nursing her to calm her down.

 

The hospital has a clinic open daily, that's free, for mother's to come in, get the baby weighed before and after a feeding, nurse the baby, and work out problems. I know women who got extensive counseling due to latch problems, under/over supply, and needing help working out a pumping schedule for work.

 

I was on WIC and the worker is an IBCLC. They offer a breastfeeding support group. I was given a peer counselor who is not an IBCLC(yet), but as taken hundreds of hours of classes. I was able to call her 24/7 if I had questions or just needed emotional support. She called me weekly just to check in.

 

I had no lack of support, don't live in a well off area, and it's not the least bit crunchy, so I'm taken back to hear of how little support other areas offer.

 

I actually think that Colorado is an extremely "crunchy" state, even the fundies I know there are crunchy, lol.

 

I've lived in several states and another country. I worked with new and/or breastfeeding moms for years. What you describe is nothing close to the norm in most of the USA.

[stripe]

Just thought I'd point out that politicians are looking after themselves. Not you.

 

Not everyone who works in the public sector is a politician. That includes nurses, doctors, teachers, librarians, and so on. I fail to see how my breastfeeding or formula feeding affects a sittin politician, since I've never breasfed one of my representatives.

 

I don't understand why corporate greed gets a pass. But it always does.

 

Why do the formula companies hand out formula without cost? Because they plan on getting massive returns on that investment. It's not some random goodwill gesture. They aren't looking out for me, either.

[labst60]

I BF my 3 (and am still BF my youngest). To date, I've logged about 60 months (the equivalent of 5 years) nursing - and still going. None of my girls have ever had a drop of formula despite the "trials and tribulations" of establishing our routines. That being said, it is PERSONAL choice as long as you are paying for it yourself (your privately funded insurance or your own pocketbook) you should feel free to do what you want. THe gov't DOES get a say if you CHOOSE to accept WIC. If I were a NYC mom who wanted to FF, I'd just room the baby in and bring my own formula. Problem solved -no lecture b/c I would feed MY baby what I PAID FOR when I WANTED... as it should be...

[Mrs Mungo]

I've never breasfed one of my representatives.

 

At least not yet! *Fingers crossed*. ;):lol:

 

I don't understand why corporate greed gets a pass. But it always does.

 

Agreed. Companies with a financial interest in telling us what to eat, what medicine to take, what to do with our bodies=perfectly fine. When the medical community or government have a financial interest in making suggestions and/or educating people on better choices=the sky is falling due to the influence of the nanny state! Come on, it's the very definition of inflammatory rhetoric.

[SKL]

Not everyone who works in the public sector is a politician. That includes nurses, doctors, teachers, librarians, and so on. I fail to see how my breastfeeding or formula feeding affects a sittin politician, since I've never breasfed one of my representatives.

 

I don't understand why corporate greed gets a pass. But it always does.

 

Why do the formula companies hand out formula without cost? Because they plan on getting massive returns on that investment. It's not some random goodwill gesture. They aren't looking out for me, either.

 

That's the thing. You gotta look out for yourself and your family. The buck stops with you (and me). Nobody cares enough for your kid that you should trust them blindly. At least corporations are honest about the fact that they're in it to make money. Now if women of child-bearing age don't realize that, that's a big problem that ought to be addressed in my opinion. Sheltering people from reality is a band-aid approach.

 

Blaming "corporate greed" aka capitalism for society's ills is about as smart as hating your rich daddy while you enjoy the lavish lifestyle he's given you.

 

People need to understand what they are up against, and act accordingly. I don't understand why we seem to have failed generations of Americans in this regard. Possibly it's partly because of nanny state / intimidation policies in the first place. How did the human species get to the point of saying "they gave it to me, therefore I assumed it was best"?

[Mrs Mungo]

That's the thing. You gotta look out for yourself and your family. The buck stops with you (and me). Nobody cares enough for your kid that you should trust them blindly. At least corporations are honest about the fact that they're in it to make money. Now if women of child-bearing age don't realize that, that's a big problem that ought to be addressed in my opinion. Sheltering people from reality is a band-aid approach.

 

Blaming "corporate greed" aka capitalism for society's ills is about as smart as hating your rich daddy while you enjoy the lavish lifestyle he's given you.

 

People need to understand what they are up against, and act accordingly. I don't understand why we seem to have failed generations of Americans in this regard. Possibly it's partly because of nanny state / intimidation policies in the first place. How did the human species get to the point of saying "they gave it to me, therefore I assumed it was best"?

 

I don't see how providing people with information to counter what corporations might tell them is a bad thing or is sheltering them?

[stripe]

I don't see how providing people with information to counter what corporations might tell them is a bad thing or is sheltering them?

 

Especially given that plenty of people are not savvy or well educated enough to see through advertisers pushing something that benefits the corporation. Look at how many people think/thought it was fine to take out a huge loan bc the bank/credit card offered. The state of financial literacy is so poor that people end up only getting advice from those selling it.

 

Take the world of birth control. People observe the same thing about, say, fertility awareness / NFP. Who is there to push it, when there's no real "product" to sell, except maybe a single purchase of a $10 thermometer. Aside from those who've written books about it, or the Catholic church, it's pretty much not discussed. Same with diaphragms. But bc pills are pricey! And their makers know it!

 

Or the world of homeschooling. Where's the outspoken lobby for free homeschooling, or using used books? (crickets chirping) Shiny new stuff? Yep, we've got lots of sellers!

[LibraryLover]

I don't see how providing people with information to counter what corporations might tell them is a bad thing or is sheltering them?

 

 

This is why the whole Fox New/NYP reporting is suspect. How does giving a family information and encouragement to breastfeed their baby get twisted into "Nanny State Pushes Nursing". Letting corporate America have a monoploy on infant feeding makes us more free?

 

I don't understand.

[SKL]

I don't see how providing people with information to counter what corporations might tell them is a bad thing or is sheltering them?

 

I never said it was. I was responding to the implication that it's better to let the state legislate our personal behavior than to let corporations market to us.

[Soror]

Let me explain block feeding a little better. Because, if you do it right, then it should not put you at that sort of risk.

 

At 7 am baby is hungry. You offer the left breast first, let baby eat as much as they can, then offer the right breast. If you have overactive letdown, then you would want to hand-express both sides a little before beginning; this is to relieve engorgement and to help keep baby from projectile vomiting from gulping too fast.

 

At 9 am baby is hungry again, so you offer the left breast first again, then the right breast second again.

 

At 11 am and 1 pm you offer the right breast first and the left second.

 

And so forth.

 

You offer both at every feeding, but by offering *mostly* one side over 4 or 5 hours, you are sending a signal that baby does not need quite so much.

 

Cabbage also works to help relieve engorgement and overproduction.

OT fwiw that is what I've always done as well. Actually with my last one I mostly nursed off of just one side and still had plenty. It took me a while to figure it out though it was just natural by number 3 though.